Father Kills 11 year old son

[the long lost son]

Unfortunately some already have: http://www.worldrtd.net/

Well those people support murder.  I guess we should support their right to die and kill them as well because we don't want to have to deal with them.  That's the reason people support "Right to Die"  it's because they don't want to take care of the person who's quality of life isn't on par with theirs.  They're just being dragged down...

I agree wholeheartedly

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Good to see some people are in the right mind... (Nobody can sit here and say that killing another human is right, no matter what the condition is)

[remix17]

Good to see some people are in the right mind... (Nobody can sit here and say that killing another human is right, no matter what the condition is)

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You call this right mind ? Wow so if you saw someone suffering from most horrible pain imaginable and if he asked you to kill him, you would be so cruel not to grant his wish. Because I would. So don't say this "murder is wrong no matter what" bull****. There are conditions that make a murder fully justified and morally right. I'm not entirely sure if the father in this particular situation did the right thing, but from what I see his actions were justified. If I was in his position I most likely would not be able to do the same. Murdering your son must be a very hard thing to do.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Boffa Jones

[phend-one]

You call this right mind ? Wow so if you saw someone suffering from most horrible pain imaginable and if he asked you to kill him, you would be so cruel not to grant his wish.  Because I would. So don't say this "murder is wrong no matter what" bull****. There are conditions that make a murder fully justified and morally right. I'm not entirely sure if the father in this particular situation did the right thing, but from what I see his actions were justified. If I was in his position I most likely would not be able to do the same. Murdering your son must be a very hard thing to do.

People need to get some sense. Think before you say. Don't be ignorant.

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So you believe that killing instead of correcting the problem justifies an act to kill? What gives you the right to take another's life? There is nothing justified and morally right about killing. Killing does not solve anything.

There are so many things this man could have done besides deciding to end his child's life. Did the child even have the capacity to reason life and death? Did the child even ask the father to end his life? Did the father even try to solve or help with the issue, exhausting every possibility, or did he simply take the easy way out?

Even if the child asked for his life to be ended, would you not try to reason with him and explain there are other ways other than death? Why not teach him to be stronger, rather than condemn him for his weakness?

I will not judge any further, I don't know all the details, I don't know the man, I don't know what he was going through.

[remix17]

So you believe that killing instead of correcting the problem justifies an act to kill? What gives you the right to take another's life? There is nothing justified and morally right about killing. Killing does not solve anything.

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And how exactly would you correct the problem? You can say that no one has the right to take another's life, ok fine. But there are still situations that fully justify murder. And you didn't answer my question: If you saw someone suffering from most horrible pain imaginable and he asked you to kill him, would you not grant his wish?

There are so many things this man could have done besides deciding to end his child's life.

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Like what ?

Did the child even have the capacity to reason life and death? Did the child even ask the father to end his life? Did the father even try to solve or help with the issue, exhausting every possibility, or did he simply take the easy way out?

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And if he did all these things, would he have the right to end his son's life ?

Even if the child asked for his life to be ended, would you not try to reason with him and explain there are other ways other than death? Why not teach him to be stronger, rather than condemn him for his weakness?

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Try explaining it to an 11-year old epileptic child.

I will not judge any further, I don't know all the details, I don't know the man, I don't know what he was going through.

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Neither do I. And that's exactly what I said. Under these circumstances it is difficult to determine if the father did the right thing. We don't know all the details. But this is not what I'm trying to say. There are other factors that seem to be overlooked, like father's psychological and emotional state of mind, a very important factor I believe.

[Pliskin]

Understandable

[John S. Veteran]

And what are you doing ? Were you not trying to rididule me just now ? I'm fine with it by the way. The difference is I actually shared something related to the topic, and you posted a useless comment. You must feel pretty good about yourself too. And also just for the record I wasn't trying to ridicule anyone, I was just pointing out that it is wrong and ignorant to say that murder is always wrong no matter what the situation is.

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Pointing out that you apparently can't deal with opinions contrary to your own, twice now you've resorted to namecalling. I don't see any of us opposed to this stooping to that level. Useless in the context of the thread perhaps, but quite useful in pointing out your inability to discuss something reasonably without attempting to belittle others by calling them ignorant and judgemental.

We all make judgements daily, that tag is getting quite old. And many of us are ignorant of various topics. But labelling your own opinion as fact and deriding others for not seeing it is ridiculous behavior.

Murder is murder, murder is wrong, were it not this would never been put before a judge.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

What I find completly awesome is that the tables are 100% turned here. The Death Penalty advocates/war in Iraq people are saying it is wrong to kill. And some people who would usually be dead set against violence are defending the guy. Me I don't agree with what he did as killing the child was probably a bad idea. Obviously the guy was messed up and needs help, but that still doesn't justify it in anyway. I really don't know what to think about the whole situation though.

I wish the people in this thread who are against the death would step back from their firmly held beleifs and take a look at the death penalty as well but hey everyone is allowed to think what they want.

[phend-one]

And how exactly would you correct the problem? You can say that no one has the right to take another's life, ok fine. But there are still situations that fully justify murder. And you didn't answer my question: If you saw someone suffering from most horrible pain imaginable and he asked you to kill him, would you not grant his wish?

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Like I said further down in my post, I would try to teach him to understand and adapt to the problems in his life.

If someone I didn't know asked me to kill him, I'd tell him no, and get him some medical attention. If it were my friend, I'd try and help him through his pain, give him a reason to live. If it was a war buddy, I'd slack him over my shoulder and get him to a medic. I wouldn't kill anyone, especially someone who has not done any wrong to me.

Like what ?

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Already gave an example.

And if he did all these things, would he have the right to end his son's life ?

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No.

Try explaining it to an 11-year old epileptic child.

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Didn't say it was going to be easy.

Neither do I. And that's exactly what I said. Under these circumstances it is difficult to determine if the father did the right thing. We don't know all the details. But this is not what I'm trying to say. There are other factors that seem to be overlooked, like father's psychological and emotional state of mind, a very important factor I believe.

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Agreed. He wasn't in the right state of mind. But does this make it right to kill?

If I wasn't in the best psychological and emotional state of mind, does that allow me to kill anyone I think or feel is suffering?

Better yet, if everyone thought that killing someone when they are in pain or suffering was the right thing to do, everyone would be killing anyone they thought was in pain or suffering. There would not be a lot of people left in this world, I can imagine.

[rumbleph1$h]

What I find completly awesome is that the tables are 100% turned here. The Death Penalty advocates/war in Iraq people are saying it is wrong to kill. And some people who would usually be dead set against violence are defending the guy.

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I don't see any "tables turned" here. Generalizing here, the abortion / quality of life advocates are defending him, and the sanctity of life advocates are criticizing him.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

I don't see any "tables turned" here. Generalizing here, the abortion / quality of life advocates are defending him, and the sanctity of life advocates are criticizing him.

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I am not defending him, I think what he did was disgusting. But you completely missed the point of my post. What I am saying is I wish the people would see that life should be preserved and like one of the guys in here said. "murder is murder" like in the death penalty and when killing Iraqi's. I have no intentions of derailing the thread further though. So if you respond to this or anyone try to have something pertaining to the thread as well.

[Starcom826]

Do I think "we" (used generally) are entitled to judging him? Well to a certain extent yes. Why? That is the whole notion of a trial by your peers. We have judge and juries who essentiall judge. Whenever someone kills someone else, it is always up to a certain degree of judging and discretion.

Addressing gnuman's comment about the U.S. and the death penalty, there seems to be a very high level of misunderstanding about how our system works. The U.S. itself throughout all of its history has very rarely practiced the death penalty. It is theoretically possible on crimes such as treason and such, but even so it has rarely put to use. On the other hand, the individual states have their own laws regarding the death penalty. An interesting fact is that Texas actually gives murderers the death penalty less frequently than the national average, but the reason why it gets so much attention is because it actually carries out more of them. I believe there is a place for the death penalty. People like BTK deserve the death penalty, and I'm astonished he didn't get it. And Iraqi civilian casualties are different from the death penalty. The death penalty is employed against people who intentionally commit crimes that warrant it. I don't think the soldiers in Iraq aside from insurgents are intentionally killing Iraqis.

Addressing this, I think what this man did was despicable and that he should have gotten more than 10 years. He intentionally killed a child, and children usually are valued more in terms of life in our society.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Starcom826

[Andy07]

All people need is a bit of support or help sometimes... then their wouldn't be any killings like this.

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

What I find completly awesome is that the tables are 100% turned here. The Death Penalty advocates/war in Iraq people are saying it is wrong to kill. And some people who would usually be dead set against violence are defending the guy. Me I don't agree with what he did as killing the child was probably a bad idea. Obviously the guy was messed up and needs help, but that still doesn't justify it in anyway. I really don't know what to think about the whole situation though.

I wish the people in this thread who are against the death would step back from their firmly held beleifs and take a look at the death penalty as well but hey everyone is allowed to think what they want.

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this is the most truthful and amazingly accurate observation i have seen today. the hipocracy being witnessed here is amazing.

boffa, bravo :yes:

[remix17]

Just for the record I'm againt death penalty. It is pointless and it doesn't solve anything. But I still believe that there are cases that make murder justified and morally right. And I will not change my mind regarless of what people say here. Obviously I'm not saying that we should kill everyone who is suffering. Helping people overcome their problems is what should be done first. I'm not advocating murder by any means. But everyone seems to be speaking about some basic natural human rights that make murder unjustified no matter what the situation is. And I just keep wondering where people get this from, what are these rights you speak of ?

[remix17]

Pointing out that you apparently can't deal with opinions contrary to your own, twice now you've resorted to namecalling.  I don't see any of us opposed to this stooping to that level.  Useless in the context of the thread perhaps, but quite useful in pointing out your inability to discuss something reasonably without attempting to belittle others by calling them ignorant and judgemental.

We all make judgements daily, that tag is getting quite old.  And many of us are ignorant of various topics.  But labelling your own opinion as fact and deriding others for not seeing it is ridiculous behavior.

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Ok I admit it. I often find it difficult to state my opinion reasonably without being judgemental. I suppose it's one of my weaknesses. I'm sure you have yours. Everyone does. And if I offended you or anyone else I'm sorry. I don't always resort to namecalling, but this is a very sensitive subject and I often feel a need to point out flaws in people's responses.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Xraizer4000

[JoDaddy]

It's hard for me to justify a father killing his own son. It's damaging to society for it to allow a person who is supposed to provide a healthy home for their child to kill them. This man should get the maximum penalty under law. I think that there are some things that should be non-negotiable.

[John S. Veteran]

What I find completly awesome is that the tables are 100% turned here. The Death Penalty advocates/war in Iraq people are saying it is wrong to kill. And some people who would usually be dead set against violence are defending the guy. Me I don't agree with what he did as killing the child was probably a bad idea. Obviously the guy was messed up and needs help, but that still doesn't justify it in anyway. I really don't know what to think about the whole situation though.

I wish the people in this thread who are against the death would step back from their firmly held beleifs and take a look at the death penalty as well but hey everyone is allowed to think what they want.

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Although the end result is the same, there is a difference between murder and kill. The definitions are different. Killing during a time of war is not considered murder, unless you're a protester who doesn't believe in the premise of war to begin with. Certainly not to insult your intelligence, but this is interesting, from webster.com:

Main Entry: 1mur?der>

1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

Main Entry: kill>

1 a : to deprive of life >

Ok I admit it. I often find it difficult to state my opinion reasonably without being judgemental. I suppose it's one of my weaknesses. I'm sure you have yours. Everyone does. And if I offended you or anyone else I'm sorry. I don't always resort to namecalling, but this is a very sensitive subject and I often feel a need to point out flaws in people's responses.

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I absolutely do, and I appreciate the apology. Many issues are heated and often hard to discuss without getting personal. It took alot to say that, and again I do appreciate it.

[phend-one]

Just for the record I'm againt death penalty. It is pointless and it doesn't solve anything. But I still believe that there are cases that make murder justified and morally right. And I will not change my mind regarless of what people say here. Obviously I'm not saying that we should kill everyone who is suffering. Helping people overcome their problems is what should be done first. I'm not advocating murder by any means. But everyone seems to be speaking about some basic natural human rights that make murder unjustified no matter what the situation is. And I just keep wondering where people get this from, what are these rights you speak of ?

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It's called the right to live. Surely you have this right.

No one here expects you or forces you to change. I would be against that. The important thing here is to get an idea of the things people will and will not tolerate. To understand that is better than constantly changing your ideals, just because "it sounds right" or "makes sense to me."

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

Although the end result is the same, there is a difference between murder and kill.  The definitions are different.  Killing during a time of war is not considered murder, unless you're a protester who doesn't believe in the premise of war to begin with.

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A life is a life though. I understand that death is inevitable in war. And hell i did agree with the premise of the war to begin with (No not the WMD's I agreed that Saddam needed to be taken out of there). Over time my views of the current situation have collapsed, but to me both the father killing his son and the soldier killing the Iraqi, and the Iraqi killing the soldier are all terrible things. Don't you agree that each innocent life is sacred?

Also by saying that Killing during the time of war is not considered murder, does that mean that you don't think that the American soldiers who are killed were murdered, but they were killed as it is during war and it is to be expected?

[John S. Veteran]

A life is a life though. I understand that death is inevitable in war. And hell i did agree with the premise of the war to begin with (No not the WMD's I agreed that Saddam needed to be taken out of there). Over time my views of the current situation have collapsed, but to me both the father killing his son and the soldier killing the Iraqi, and the Iraqi killing the soldier are all terrible things. Don't you agree that each innocent life is sacred?

Also by saying that Killing during the time of war is not considered murder, does that mean that you don't think that the American soldiers who are killed were murdered, but they were killed as it is during war and it is to be expected?

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Forgetting Iraq for fear of where it will take this thread and just speaking in terms of war, yes it is expected that people on each side will die. All life is indeed precious, I don't think you're against war per se from what I've read. I think that helps illustrate my point: that you would agree casualties are an expected result of war, but you certainly feel a bit of sadness, wonder, or anger in a different sort of way when you pick up your local paper and find someone in your neighborhood has been killed.

Neither changes the fact that the lives lost were precious and sacred, but one was stolen illegally (often violently) and the other taken lawfully as a (hopefully) last means to acheive a desired goal for a nation or country as a whole.

I could not, in my mind think of an American that was killed in any time of war as being 'murdered'. A very simple analogy would be if I were thirsty I sipped a glass of water, I did not gulp the glass of water. The end result is still the same, but still very different means of achieving it. And I fear I'm straying off-topic.

[Envark]

It's not within anyone's right to kill another human being. We don't know anything about this man. We don't know anything about his son. We do know he killed his son, and that in itself, is an act of wrong-doing.

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Word.