jessejlt Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Ravager Here's what I'm thinking. We use "gay" these days to describe something undesirable simply because most of us are homophobic. I don't prefer gays, so I won't be marching in the pride parade with them, but if one sat next to me I wouldn't be uncomfortable. If we want to stop using "gay", wouldn't we have to stop: Using "idiot" or "idiotic", because after all... An idiot is: A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. Wouldn't that be offensive? What about moron? A moron is: Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. That even states it's also offensive. Technically, these are offensive words because they describe retarded people, yet we use them in our everyday lives? You know what's the difference though? When we say someone's a moron or an idiot, we don't mean they have a mental disability, we mean they're foolish. Same with gay. When we say something's "gay" we don't mean it in a homophobic way. We're stating that it's undesirable. Why? Because sadly the world is naturally homophobic. That was well thought out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejlt Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Explicative Fools like this take some sort of pride in their own ignorance and bigotry and expect that everyone else should just put up with it. People like this are full of excuses and full of crap as far as I'm concerned. Try thinking for a moment instead of dismissing what I said based on your knee-jerk reaction to anything that hints of un-PC thought. The word "gay" is not just a single word in the abstract: the only way to determine what word is being used is to disambiguate according to context. For instance, besides its new meaning as something that "sucks," there are mainly two other meanings associated with "gay." One of them is "mirthful and happy," and the other one is "homosexual." Now, if you are reading a poem by some romantic such as Wordsworth or Shelley and you come across the word "gay," it is pretty much guaranteed that what is meant is the former meaning (mirthful) rather than the latter (homosexual). The secondary meaning didn't exist at that time, but when "gay" became associated with "homosexual" the original meaning of "mirthful" still persisted. Is this homophobic then, by implying that all gay people are somehow mirthful? Obviously not. The explanation is that there are two different words with completely different meanings that happen to use the same string of letters and pronunciation when they are communicated. In the case of "gay" being used interchangeably with something bad, the same thing has happened, it's a new word. This is how language evolves, stop trying to regulate it and get over it. So was that, I wish I could come up with something intelligent to say, but I can't :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intensityx Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by creamhackered I wouldnt say that I think i know where he is coming from in the fact that the word is not longer used to describe homosexuals. I don't use it for that when i say something is "gay" however people may use it if they are describing someone as being homosexual. Its fading from that but I think it will keep its double meanings 1. Homosexual Man/Woman and 2. Something that is considered to be stupid You are still justifying an unacceptable behavior...Just because that use of the word it has become popular amongst immature and bigoted individuals doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwarren Veteran Posted July 16, 2002 Veteran Share Posted July 16, 2002 Well said people :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Ravager Here's what I'm thinking. We use "gay" these days to describe something undesirable simply because most of us are homophobic. I don't prefer gays, so I won't be marching in the pride parade with them, but if one sat next to me I wouldn't be uncomfortable. If we want to stop using "gay", wouldn't we have to stop: Using "idiot" or "idiotic", because after all... An idiot is: A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. Wouldn't that be offensive? What about moron? A moron is: Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. That even states it's also offensive. Technically, these are offensive words because they describe retarded people, yet we use them in our everyday lives? You know what's the difference though? When we say someone's a moron or an idiot, we don't mean they have a mental disability, we mean they're foolish. Same with gay. When we say something's "gay" we don't mean it in a homophobic way. We're stating that it's undesirable. Why? Because sadly the world is naturally homophobic. So why be preoccupied with "gay" and not "moron" or "idiot"? Because, since we're homophobic, we pay close attention to the usage of "gay". Honestly, how many of you are anti-retarded people or regularly think about retarded people? I'd be surprised if any of you said "I do." you forgot to suggest banning "retarded", "foolish", "stupid"......... like i said, we will see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dfresh321 Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Gay adj. - Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry EX. My monitor is gay. I love being around it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonBox Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by codyg11 yes, people are giving the word "gay" a negative connotation (i am not saying that gay is good or bad here), and it is kinda offensive to gays. i guess we will see..... Sounds acceptable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejlt Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I wonder how many gay people we even have that visit the forums, and I wonder how many of them would even be offended..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberflasm Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 well i have many gay friends who use the term gay in the same way as you find offensive. quite personally if it doesn't bother them then it doesn't bother me. if we can't use gay then don't use dumb as it may offend our less intelligent members. besides that gay means happy and later became a description for homosexual. In todays society many words have changed their meaning such as bad meaning really awesome. should we change the spelling like phat? i think it's kinda funny that none of the homosexual members complained about this. they probably never read that much into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by username i know i have posted the "this thread is gay" image a few time, but i dont do it because i have anything against gays, it just has a new meaning, but if a lot of people have a problem with it, i will understand I was actually thinking of that as I read these posts. I always thought it was funny too... Also, Ravager, I believe idiot and moron came from much older sources than what you referenced. They only took on any form of technical meaning recently. Explicative- i would agree with you, except that the reason "gay" has a negative connotation is because of the fact that people started using it as a derogatory slur. It's not just a word changing its meaning (possibly it is to younger people though). And I also don't think it should be censored. I don't think swears should be either, but I realize Neowin has to keep the site clean. I figure if people are going to use it, let them use it...the rest of us will come up with better words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovedude Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 gay used to mean.. happy in the good old days didnt it lol... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravager Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by codyg11 you forgot to suggest banning "retarded", "foolish", "stupid"......... like i said, we will see..... You think that would be wise? Do you know what would happened if we censored out those words. Heck, look at this Fool: Archaic. A mentally deficient person; an idiot. But when we call someone a fool, does that mean we call them an idiot? Of course not! It's not our intent, it's what you people assume that makes this into a big controversy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerkPY Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Timan we all know everyone on neowin is full of crap :) Does that include you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwarren Veteran Posted July 16, 2002 Veteran Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by PigeonHead Does that include you? lol ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 when i say "this thread is gay" its because i am trying to be funny, like the original meaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutop Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 you also seem to forget there are also homosexual members on this board, so its also hurtful to other members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadzombie Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 The funniest thing about this thread is that the issue being discussed is already addressed with the Communities fourth rule: No Racism, No Threatening, No (citing) Victimization (via PM) or Hateful posts The broadness of this rule works within the forum structure to allow people to notify moderators of an offense or victimizing post on a case by case basis. The rules structure is fine. If you are offended by any use of any word, please feel free to notify the moderator of your choice. Moderators are selected to serve the members based upon the ability to make reasonable, discerning, fair decisions. While I appreciate everyones concern about their fellow members proper conduct, this issue has already been addressed in the Neowin rules. Thread Closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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