Hani Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I have to agree with DivaPardox, there is plenty of resources for all humans, the problem is with the distribution of the resources in an unequal manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted October 24, 2005 Veteran Share Posted October 24, 2005 That refers to spiritual works adonai, not wealth. 586719070[/snapback] The example you gave was an illustration of how those who are blessed with material things shouldn't become obsessed with them to the point that we forget our creator. The beggar, in this story, heeded the Law and the Prophets. Let's not forget that it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fascist Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 The inca did something that involved basically no poverty. Everyone worked and di what they had to toward their town. They never complained and those who were lazy were killed. Why not do that now? We could all be living in perfect conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remix17 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 The example you gave was an illustration of how those who are blessed with material things shouldn't become obsessed with them to the point that we forget our creator. The beggar, in this story, heeded the Law and the Prophets. Let's not forget that it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money in and of itself. 586719433[/snapback] I hate when people mention God in non-religious discussions. Are you saying that all humans are evil, because it is human nature to strive for more. Call it greed if you want, but most of us will never be satisfied with what we have. Humans will always want to have more than others. We are slaves to materialism and consumerism. You are right, we become obsessed with material things to the point that we forget what is really important in life. It isn't evil, it is just reality of our lives. Some have it all, others have nothing. But let's not forget that even those who have all the gold in the world, still strive for more. Being rich or poor is relative, everyone wants more than what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n3wt Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 The inca did something that involved basically no poverty. Everyone worked and di what they had to toward their town. They never complained and those who were lazy were killed. Why not do that now? We could all be living in perfect conditions. Hmm, an authoritarian regime forcing everyone to contribute equally, thats a ****ing brilliant idea. Seems kind of familiar though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strekship Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Prices for things would go up. Inflation would be crazy. How does that even begin to make sense? Care to let us in on your secret logic? 586698356[/snapback] If everyone had money, then prices would go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Golden Deal Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 If everyone had money, then prices would go up. The only thing affecting prices are the laws of supply and demand. If people aren't willing to pay those prices, the prices either drop or a cheaper alternative finds its way onto the market to meet demand. Not to mention that this only covers cost of living, not inflation. Inflation is the devaluing of a form of currency, which your mystery logic has yet to actually discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumbleph1$h Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 If everyone had money, then prices would go up. The only thing affecting prices are the laws of supply and demand. If people aren't willing to pay those prices, the prices either drop or a cheaper alternative finds its way onto the market to meet demand. Not to mention that this only covers cost of living, not inflation. Inflation is the devaluing of a form of currency, which your mystery logic has yet to actually discuss. 586720574[/snapback] Mystery logic? It seems very sound to me, at least interpreting the hypothetical a certain way. If we're talking about redistribution of wealth, then that's a different matter... but if suddenly everyone had lots of money (i.e. the amount of money in our economy artificially increased), we'd see prices shoot up.. just like strekship said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMaster Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Only a few ways to elimitate poverty: 1) Raise education standards in many countries. 2) Get rid of dictatorships. 3) Get rid of international free trade. The problem with this is that while #2 benefits some Western countries, #1 and #3 will be to detriment of Western countries. If #1 and #3 increases (hell, I'm willing to sacrifice my so called "living standards" to make everyone else happier), I don't think given our current political leaders and economic system (the more important) this will ever happen. Consider too, that if everyone's living standard increases, unless there is a massive depopulation that we probably won't be able to support everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Golden Deal Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Wealth does not appear from nowhere. It has to have physical roots, where it derives its worth from, somewhere. Giving everyone the same amount of money from nothing would do nothing to solve poverty, since the same amount of physical resources are being used to represent a greater amount of wealth, and therefore inflation, so that take on 'no poverty' would be moot, since it wouldn't actually solve the original poster's question. The only way to actually get rid of poverty is to redistribute the wealth that currently exists in the world evenly, which would not affect prices or inflation. The only thing that would happen is that certain market niches, like 'luxury' products would shrivel up or vanish entirely due to a lack of 'luxury.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted October 25, 2005 Veteran Share Posted October 25, 2005 I hate when people mention God in non-religious discussions. Are you saying that all humans are evil, because it is human nature to strive for more. Call it greed if you want, but most of us will never be satisfied with what we have. Humans will always want to have more than others. We are slaves to materialism and consumerism. You are right, we become obsessed with material things to the point that we forget what is really important in life. It isn't evil, it is just reality of our lives. Some have it all, others have nothing. But let's not forget that even those who have all the gold in the world, still strive for more. Being rich or poor is relative, everyone wants more than what they have. 586719494[/snapback] Dashel directly derided my point of view as being hypocritical. I'm not going to ignore him any more than you would have if you had been singled out. My point in the post you quoted was that simply being rich will not send you to hell as Dashel alluded to. Just as being poor is not a gurantee to entering heaven. His futile attempt at proving hypocrisy on my part by quoting the Bible could not go unanswered. While many do become obsessed with materialism and only gaining more and more, there are quite a few well-to-do folk who would be considered wealthy that give millions back to those less fortunate. Believe it or not, there are many who are actually content with what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Golden Deal Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted October 25, 2005 Veteran Share Posted October 25, 2005 "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven." 586720787[/snapback] Again, any sentence from any book, taken out of context cannot stand on it's own as a portrayal of the message within. Jesus used this example to portray mans own inept ability to save himself. A rich man cannot enter heaven of his own accord. It is but through Christ that salvation is guranteed, not by any power that man himself posseses, not even a rich man. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camels to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mAcOdIn Veteran Posted October 25, 2005 Veteran Share Posted October 25, 2005 I fail to see the connection between religion and poverty. Way I see it there will always be classes. We can change the gap between them to extents but they will always be there, if not then we'd have a collapse of everything. Lower productivity, lower living and working conditions, less medical advancements and treatments, just less of everything. It is the desire to advance and gain more that pushes everything forward, and if at the end of the day working 12-14 hours got you nothing more than the guy who slacked off for 8 than what would be the point of it all? Nowhere does it say that to suceed spiritually you have to fail in the material world, that's just absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remix17 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I fail to see the connection between religion and poverty.Way I see it there will always be classes. We can change the gap between them to extents but they will always be there, if not then we'd have a collapse of everything. Lower productivity, lower living and working conditions, less medical advancements and treatments, just less of everything. 586721065[/snapback] Not always. Eventually all economic systems will collapse. Resources will be unlimited. There will be no more competition for material gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted October 25, 2005 Veteran Share Posted October 25, 2005 I fail to see the connection between religion and poverty.586721065[/snapback] It was not my intention to steer it there, as I stated Dashel backed me in a corner and I've reposnded to him accordingly. Way I see it there will always be classes. We can change the gap between them to extents but they will always be there, if not then we'd have a collapse of everything. Lower productivity, lower living and working conditions, less medical advancements and treatments, just less of everything.It is the desire to advance and gain more that pushes everything forward, and if at the end of the day working 12-14 hours got you nothing more than the guy who slacked off for 8 than what would be the point of it all? Nowhere does it say that to suceed spiritually you have to fail in the material world, that's just absurd. 586721065[/snapback] I agree wholeheartedly, well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts