Quiet Teen kills neighbors, self

[Hum]

ALISO VIEJO, California (AP) -- A 19-year-old in a black cape and a paintball mask went on a shooting rampage Saturday in his upscale Southern California neighborhood, killing a man and his daughter before committing suicide, authorities said.

William Freund also fired shots into another house and confronted a neighbor outside, said Orange County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jim Amormino.

Freund left his home about 9 a.m. and drove less than 100 yards to a house where he killed Vernon Smith, 45, and daughter Christina Smith, 22, with a shotgun, Amormino said. A 20-year-old son escaped after hearing shots.

Freund then walked across the street and fired into another house, Amormino said. A person inside suffered cuts from broken glass.

Another neighbor heard the commotion, came outside and was confronted by the teen, who tried to fire his weapon. When it misfired, Freund went back to his own house and committed suicide, Amormino said.

Neighbor Katherine Anderson, 15, said Freund and Christina Smith had attended Aliso Miguel High School together.

Anderson, whose older brother had given Freund a ride to school, described Freund as "a real quiet guy." :huh:

source

[Hurmoth]

Sad, very sad.

[Fedorpheux]

reminds me of the columbine shooting.... :(

586745650[/snapback]

I don't see how it is at all related to Columbine, apart from the age range of the shooter (but there have been plenty of shootings involving kids this age).

[NoneAvail]

reminds me of the columbine shooting.... :(

[AcdShdw]

Sh** Happens.

[lhnz]

Sh** Happens.

586745686[/snapback]

That was profound.

:no:

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

Sh** Happens.

586745686[/snapback]

people die and thats all you have to say? thanks but no thanks for your imput pal.

sad story :cry:

[former1]

This is why guns have to be illegal in the U.S.A.

Why do you never hear of shootings by teenagers outside the U.S? Because everyone else has sensible laws outside the U.S. which therefore gives them a much lower gun crime rate.

However maybe if the "quiet guy" had someone to talk to - this wouldn't have happend at all :( .

[Fedorpheux]

This is why guns have to be illegal in the U.S.A.

Why do you never hear of shootings by teenagers outside the U.S? Because everyone else has sensible laws outside the U.S. which therefore gives them a much lower gun crime rate.

However maybe if the "quiet guy" had someone to talk to - this wouldn't have happend at all  :( .

586745706[/snapback]

You really think making all guns illegal in the U.S. would help this? You realize that at his age, it was illegal for him to have a gun anyways, yet he still got his hands on one. Outlawing guns wont stop stuff like this, people can still get their hands on guns. Or, if they feel like being creative, there are hundreds of ways to kill people with the friendly household objects and chemicals in almost every regular home.

Why do we never hear about shootings by teenagers outside the U.S.? Well, there are a couple of contributing factors. One of the biggest is the wonderful U.S. mass media. "Anything to make a buck" seems to be their motto and stories about murdering teens hit pretty high on the "Oh my gosh! I have to freak out and check out this news story thereby giving the mass media more money from the ads that they sell!" scale.

The "quiet guy" needed more than just somebody to talk to. Sounds to me like he needed some professional help. Too late, though.

[Nexus]

This is why guns have to be illegal in the U.S.A.

Why do you never hear of shootings by teenagers outside the U.S? Because everyone else has sensible laws outside the U.S. which therefore gives them a much lower gun crime rate.

However maybe if the "quiet guy" had someone to talk to - this wouldn't have happend at all  :( .

586745706[/snapback]

I someone wants to kill another then there are plenty of other types of weapons, knife, a bat with nails in it, chainsaw, etc...... . So to say guns should outlaw is absurd.

[Fedorpheux]

Its always the quiet ones... :-\

Selfish ****ing kid, why take others lifes for no reason, then waste yourself?

586745738[/snapback]

To paraphrase George Carlin, of course it's always the quiet ones. The ones yelling "I'm going to go on a freaking killing rampage and murder all you ****ers!" are usually taken care of before they actually start killing anybody.

:rolleyes:

[jokeripa]

Its always the quiet ones... :-\

Selfish ****ing kid, why take others lifes for no reason, then waste yourself?

[HawkMan]

With stricter gun laws in the US. his parents probably wouldn't have guns anyway. and if they did, they would be locked into gun cabinets.

AND without a gun, it's extremely unlikely he wouyld have been able to kill as many as he did. a gun makes a man several hundred times more deadly than the sharpest of kitchen knifes.

there's not sensible reason for the US gun laws(or lack thereof)

no it's not just the US mass meda. kids shoot peopel outside of the US too. and you bet it's a far bigger news story when it happens in Europe than when it hgappens in the US. a teenage killing, would cause first page stuff all over the originating country, for weeks, if not months. And if it happened in one of the bigger coutnries, or as ign this case, he killed a lot of peopel. it would practically be in the news all over Europe.

[kaneso]

if a kid in a country with guns banned wanted to do this they would find it hard to find a gun which would make it less traggic because guns kill more than baseball bats. I mean i have never even seen a gun on the streets in England.

[former1]

You really think making all guns illegal in the U.S. would help this? You realize that at his age, it was illegal for him to have a gun anyways, yet he still got his hands on one. Outlawing guns wont stop stuff like this, people can still get their hands on guns. Or, if they feel like being creative, there are hundreds of ways to kill people with the friendly household objects and chemicals in almost every regular home.

Why do we never hear about shootings by teenagers outside the U.S.? Well, there are a couple of contributing factors. One of the biggest is the wonderful U.S. mass media. "Anything to make a buck" seems to be their motto and stories about murdering teens hit pretty high on the "Oh my gosh! I have to freak out and check out this news story thereby giving the mass media more money from the ads that they sell!" scale.

The "quiet guy" needed more than just somebody to talk to. Sounds to me like he needed some professional help. Too late, though.

586745747[/snapback]

You sound like you have a chip in your shoulder :huh: .

First of all it was not illegal for the teenager to have a shotgun. Californias law say "To purchase a shotgun, the buyer must be a minimum of 18 years old."

You are getting confused with hand guns - these can only be purchased at the age of 21.

As for the U.S. Press comment, I live in the Netherlands where everyday I read about gang related stabbings, and assasinations (with yes illegaly acquired fire arms) of political figures and directors who make films that offend the race (in this case it was the turkish/muslim community). So don't think the U.S. press has to glorify everything and anything.

As for your view on the "quiet guy" needing more than someone to talk to. That's your view, in my opinion if I could talk someone out of going on a mass murder rampage and sit down with them for as long as it took to at least make them think about their actions, and the conscequences it'll have on more than just themselves.

What he did was a selfish and horrible act - but at the end of the day, something made him do it and it's to late to ask him what and why?

#EDIT @ Nexus: You can dodge a stabbing motion, but can you really dodge bullets?

You have a much higher survival rate from a stab wound than that of a gun shot wound from a shotgun at point blank.

If someone stabs somebody (just one person), it takes them longer to get within stabbing range of the next victim than it would to chamber a new shell and pull a trigger.

These things are common sense :wacko:

Edited October 30, 2005 by MI6Labs

[Fedorpheux]

You sound like you have a chip in your shoulder  :huh: .

First of all it was not illegal for the teenager to have a shotgun. Californias law say "To purchase a shotgun, the buyer must be a minimum of 18 years old."

You are getting confused with hand guns - these can only be purchased at the age of 21.

...

586745795[/snapback]

I must have misread the story. It said something about 15 year olds and stuff and I thought he was that age. Turns out he was 19 years old, my bad. I was not getting it confused with handguns, I know the laws significantly well. I live in Oregon so I keep my eye on the gun laws of surrounding states as well.

I guess my overall feeling about this story is similar to Solarix's. This stuff happens. Little kittens get ran over and babies starve to death. So? I'm not going to ball my eyes out every time I hear about something like this. If it is something that actually affects me personally at all (as in involving somebody I personally know or something like that), then I probably will care. But when random people die, what do you want me to do? Pretend like I care? No. Pretending to care doesn't help anybody unless your conscience needs it to feel better, then I guess it could help you. But I don't need that and frankly I think it is stupid to pretend to care about stuff like this. And if you people that seem to care try to tell me that you aren't pretending and that you do honestly care about this, then why don't you care about the other thousands of people that are dying prematurely and in horrible ways all over the world? Waiting for their stories to be posted here on Neowin or on the local news tonight? Seriously, wake up and smell the flowers of real life.

About the whole guns issue, maybe the father or daughter should've had a gun on them. The whole situation could have ended without loss of life. And don't blame the gun laws if the people are breaking them. The laws are in place, the enforcement is not.

[AcdShdw]

people die and thats all you have to say?  thanks but no thanks for your imput pal.

sad story :cry:

586745704[/snapback]

i only say this because its true, it happens its life thats how things work random unexplained and obviously wrong, thats how life goes why act so surprised?

[former1]

i only say this because its true, it happens its life thats how things work random unexplained and obviously wrong, thats how life goes why act so surprised?

586745823[/snapback]

One word:

Compassion.

[HawkMan]

How come the Amerticansolution allways is. not to remove the gun from the hands of the guy that shot..

but no... put guns in the hands of everyone else too ?

do you HONESTLY Think that would have solved anything ? no it would, it would have made the kid definately fire, or if the father/mother was lucky, fire first. someone would most likely have died anyway.

remove the gun from the picture completely... and you stand a much greater chance of 100% survival and the kid getting some help.

[Fedorpheux]

#EDIT @ Nexus: You can dodge a stabbing motion, but can you really dodge bullets?

You have a much higher survival rate from a stab wound than that of a gun shot wound from a shotgun at point blank.

If someone stabs somebody (just one person), it takes them longer to get within stabbing range of the next victim than it would to chamber a new shell and pull a trigger.

These things are common sense  :wacko:

586745795[/snapback]

if a kid in a country with guns banned wanted to do this they would find it hard to find a gun which would make it less traggic because guns kill more than baseball bats. I mean i have never even seen a gun on the streets in England.

586745803[/snapback]

I just want to remind both of you, and anybody else that is reading, that the instructions for several different kinds of "pipe bombs" (and similar explosives) made from regular household materials and chemicals can be found in about 2 minutes of Googling. In addition to that, if somebody is really committed, there is the occaisional contraption such as the homemade flamethrower (that was posted here on Neowin just a few weeks ago) that could easily kill and/or wound a lot more people than a few bullets, especially if it was taken into a crowded mall or something like that.

Where there is a will, there is a way...several ways, in fact.

How come the Amerticansolution allways is. not to remove the gun from the hands of the guy that shot..

but no... put guns in the hands of everyone else too ?

do you HONESTLY Think that would have solved anything ? no it would, it would have made the kid definately fire, or if the father/mother was lucky, fire first. someone would most likely have died anyway.

remove the gun from the picture completely... and you stand a much greater chance of 100% survival and the kid getting some help.

586745880[/snapback]

If the father or daughter had a concealed weapons permit and proper training, they could have shot the 19 year old in an extremity (such as arm or leg) and then disarm him. I doubt that the kid had enough training with his gun that he would have been any good in an all out fire-fight. Also, there is a high probability that if the father or daughter just pulled a gun on the kid (in self defense) that the kid would have been so surprised and stunned that he would have given up. There are statistics (look them up in Google if you don't trust me) that a vast majority of the crimes that are ended with the use of a concealed weapon in the hands of a legal and trained citizen are ended without anybody ever firing a shot. Simply the idea of a citizen with a self-defense weapon is enough to make most criminals give up or at least run away.

[former1]

But I don't need that and frankly I think it is stupid to pretend to care about stuff like this. And if you people that seem to care try to tell me that you aren't pretending and that you do honestly care about this, then why don't you care about the other thousands of people that are dying prematurely and in horrible ways all over the world?

586745838[/snapback]

Who said I didn't care about all the people dieing? End of the day a human is a human and we're all the same. It's sad to hear what humanity is doing to itself everyday with war, suicides, stories such as this one etc. Why should I wait to see the stories posted on Neowin, when it happens right outside in the 'world' i'm living in?

You do realise the news isn't just on Neowin?

If you could do something to make the world you live in, a better place. You would right?

I just voiced my opinion - In no way did I say it has to be done this way and that, but you seem to have deluded yourself into thinking I've said you must at least pretend to care, and you must "ball your eyes out" at every oppurtunity.

In no way would I cry for this - as the fact remains that this is becoming a regular occuring event within the U.S. We see someone shot it's just another story on the newspaper infront of us.

Yet when something bigger and more "monumental" happens e.g. 9/11 it's a time when people "care". At the end of the day, 9/11 was murder - as was this.

As for your comment on smelling the flowers - I'm not sure as to whether you were trying to be 'comical' or look 'cool' infront of the neowiners here. But what was the point in that? We all perceive things in a different light.

For e.g. you find stories such as these to be things that just happen, whilst I see them as a problem that we could easily fix by banning guns all together within the U.S.

And as for your last paragraph. Or maybe if none of them had guns - none of it would've happend in the first place?

#EDIT: If you're to bored to read the whole thing, what I'm saying at the end of the day is the following:

1. I gave my personal opinion on the matter

2. In no way am I saying you have to agree

3. We all have different perceptions of situations that happen

4. I accept your view, and will gladly share my opinion in a non derogative way.

[.Neo]

Stuff like this happens often in the US huh?

[yayaba]

Reading about this just makes me think about how especially for the 22 year old girl who had her own life and dreams, all of a sudden some maniac just bursts in and kills her.

That's SCARY. To think that anyday someone could just burst into your home when you come back from school or work and tired as hell and just want to get in a good round of gaming in when a maniac blows up your frontdoor and pumps you full of lead...

#$@$... not really much you can do about that...

[Farstrider]

This is why guns have to be illegal in the U.S.A.

Why do you never hear of shootings by teenagers outside the U.S? Because everyone else has sensible laws outside the U.S. which therefore gives them a much lower gun crime rate.

However maybe if the "quiet guy" had someone to talk to - this wouldn't have happend at all  :( .

586745706[/snapback]

This is why guns should be banned worldwide!

I someone wants to kill another then there are plenty of other types of weapons, knife, a bat with nails in it, chainsaw, etc...... . So to say guns should outlaw is absurd.

586745759[/snapback]

I am sorry to say that this attitude is the one that is the root cause of these sorts of incidents! Of all the "weapons" that you describe the ONLY ONE that is specifically designed to kill are guns!

[Fedorpheux]

MI6Labs, my comments about people pretending to care were certainly not directed specifically at you, as you apparently assumed. If I had intended them to be directed at you, I would have mentioned you in the post or I would have simply PMed you about it instead of making a post in this thread. My comments about people pretending to care were directed at the entire world, or basically whoever happens to read that post. Not just you, buddy.

I'm trying to keep this discussion as civil as possible so I'm not going to start listing what I perceive to be differences between me and you, or who is right and who is wrong on different issues and why. If I wanted to have a personal debate with you, I would have PMed you.

Finally, just so you don't think that I'm a barbaric animal or anything like that, I accept your opinion and I see how it makes sense and all that. I can agree to disagree, as you seem to be able to do. So let's do that. And in response to you saying "As for your comment on smelling the flowers - I'm not sure as to whether you were trying to be 'comical' or look 'cool' infront of the neowiners here." I don't care about looking "cool" in front of the fellow members here. If you know me from any of my other activity here on Neowin, you would know that I am not like that. I simply express my opinion and that's about it. Also, I wasn't trying to be comical. Although I often do try to be comical, this was not one of those occaisions. I was simply trying to make my point in a somewhat artistic manner, but I guess I failed in that attempt.

Anyways, group hug?

:rolleyes: