mart3ll Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 **** This is a legit post in its proper section of the forum **** I'll try to post this here in a more agreeable area. It was deleted from my last attempt in the Real World Issues section. Wonder how long this post will stay here? I would like to disagree with the thread -- "That it is not progress, it is decadence," said the Nigerian cardinal" -- being closed. It is in the General Discussion > Real World Issues forum. There was no attacking of religion in that thread. There was a discussion about the Catholic church and its stance on sexuality issues. Not once did someone comment in a hateful way toward the church. I think Neowin should watch its moderators and how they lay the rules on a little too thick. There's moderation, and then there's total free speech censorship on a totally legit discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 same post, different location...wonder how long it will be here this time :ponder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3ll Posted July 26, 2002 Author Share Posted July 26, 2002 since there was no reason to delete the last one, I'm hoping this one stays since its in the right forum section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by grafXguru since there was no reason to delete the last one, I'm hoping this one stays since its in the right forum section. yes, hopefully for you it will.on the post topic, id say that i dont really think there was much crap against neowin going on there but people were 'dissing' the religious systems IMO, and the mods opinion too, i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3ll Posted July 26, 2002 Author Share Posted July 26, 2002 I wouldnt say 'dissing'... I would say 'questioning' There were no hate comments of any sort. Pure discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Well, I believe the policy is to NOT post about topics being removed, but I've got to agree here. If the people think a topic was unfarily modded, what should we do? I usually agree with the thread closings, but considering we're supposed to PM mods if they close something, I don't see how that helps. It is still left to their whim to close something, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzla Veteran Posted July 26, 2002 Veteran Share Posted July 26, 2002 If you believe you have an issue with a decision a moderator has made I request that you PM the moderator in question rather then creating an entire new thread every time one is deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dazzla If you believe you have an issue with a decision a moderator has made I request that you PM the moderator in question rather then creating an entire new thread every time one is deleted. Yup, have to agree. PM deadzombie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart3ll Posted July 26, 2002 Author Share Posted July 26, 2002 Sorry, yeah... I'll PM the next time. You can close this thread if you want... Just wanted to voice my concern and let others know instead of just raggin on Deadzombie. Yeesh... this is feeling a bit 1984ish. Big brother really is watching. :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 i guess deadzombie was a little over the top but just PM him and try to work it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dazzla If you believe you have an issue with a decision a moderator has made I request that you PM the moderator in question rather then creating an entire new thread every time one is deleted. Right, but what if you question the general actions of the moderator? Just hypothetical, I have no problems, but I was wondering if there was a system of checks and balances around here. I'd hate to think the citizens of Neowin were being ruled by tyrants, you see ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 not really tyrants here, but Neobond is King Pimp around here ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 huh why on earth was that closed... no one really insulted anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadzombie Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 You may PM me whenever you like, however my decision to close that thread still stands. Myself and other moderators do not close or edit threads for the thrill of it. we weigh the content of a post against the Neowin board rules and act accordingly. If you disagree with one of my actions, please take it up with the site staff. Neobond and the others will either stand by my decision or correct my mistake. Personally, I found the entire focus of the thread biased and discriminatory toward religion. The thread was not presented in a manner to invoke thoughtful discussion of homosexual discrimination, but specifically laid out in anger against a major religious institution, provoking and encouraging a flamewar. As I stated when I closed the thread, the Neowin rules work both ways. I have closed threads bashing homosexuals, I will close threads bashing religion. Make no mistake, I will be fair in my application of the rules to everyone, regardless if it is the popular or politically correct thing to do. One last note; I called in another moderator on this to police myself. I am here for the members, not as an exercise in authority. My personal feelings were to further action for the third post in violation, yet I realized that I was angered by someone trying to push my buttons. Please feel free to voice your dissent with any staff member; I know that I have done the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 For these cases a rating system would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie I know that I have done the right thing. You arrogant little -- :p No, that's cool. People can only question your decisions if you make one, so it's probably better that something gets done than watch this place turn into the monkey house and have **** flying everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie You may PM me whenever you like, however my decision to close that thread still stands. Myself and other moderators do not close or edit threads for the thrill of it. we weigh the content of a post against the Neowin board rules and act accordingly. If you disagree with one of my actions, please take it up with the site staff. Neobond and the others will either stand by my decision or correct my mistake. Personally, I found the entire focus of the thread biased and discriminatory toward religion. The thread was not presented in a manner to invoke thoughtful discussion of homosexual discrimination, but specifically laid out in anger against a major religious institution, provoking and encouraging a flamewar. As I stated when I closed the thread, the Neowin rules work both ways. I have closed threads bashing homosexuals, I will close threads bashing religion. Make no mistake, I will be fair in my application of the rules to everyone, regardless if it is the popular or politically correct thing to do. One last note; I called in another moderator on this to police myself. I am here for the members, not as an exercise in authority. My personal feelings were to further action for the third post in violation, yet I realized that I was angered by someone trying to push my buttons. Please feel free to voice your dissent with any staff member; I know that I have done the right thing. right-o d00d :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie Personally, I found the entire focus of the thread biased and discriminatory toward religion. God forbid anyone not support religion. Pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie One last note; I called in another moderator on this to police myself. I am here for the members, not as an exercise in authority. My personal feelings were to further action for the third post in violation, yet I realized that I was angered by someone trying to push my buttons. Please feel free to voice your dissent with any staff member; I know that I have done the right thing. dead what on earth are you talking about? this is no different then disscussing something like windows. there are a lot worse things said in other threads. its no different the someone discriminating against macs, its an institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadzombie Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by twist dead what on earth are you talking about? this is no different then discussing something like windows. there are a lot worse things said in other threads. its no different the someone discriminating against macs, its an institution. Well, lets play a little game with some quotes from that thread and see if we get a better perspective. In each of the quotes I am going to replace the victimizing reference with something else. "but of course what he said isn't right. I'm sure a lot of gayfools around the globe feel that way" "but I agree that rampant Hispanics is a bad thing." "i think the homosexuals views should carry absolutely no weight" "homosexuals seems to have more power over the mindless sheep then anything else, and thats the real problem" Funny that when a different group is switched into the comments they sound so much more offensive. As I stated earlier, the rules apply to everyone, regardless of the current political climate. Because it's PC to hound religion we should ignore the rules? I for one won't. I've seen this same problem a few weeks ago on a thread about parents. Someone complaining about what a bitch his mother was. Guess what? Many of Neowin members are parents. Many are religious. It's a moderators job to watch out for everyone, regardless of their background or persuasion. Freedom of speech is all nice and good. It does not, however, apply here at Neowin when it conflicts with the board guidelines or seeks to discriminate against a board member of any background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 I did not see the thread, but from what has been said so far all i have to say is that when you talk about a religion or common or not-so-common practice, people are gonna be offended and a flame war will erupt. And from what I have seen I think the right decision was made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 well maybe the right decision was made or maybe not! as twist said the whole PC vs. MAC or Intel vs. AMD are many of the times flame wars but i understand that in those kinds of threads no one is being insulted(gays, homossexuals chatolics, etc), just angry remarks against the products and sometimes against the ppl who support them. here it was another deal has "things" were being insulted left and right so maybe it was the correct desicion but of course it wasn't very democratic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzla Veteran Posted July 26, 2002 Veteran Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by use_imagination ...but of course it wasn't very democratic... It was democratic in that there was more then one person making the decision. What do you want us to do instead? Create a new thread and make a poll asking the members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by deadzombie Well, lets play a little game with some quotes from that thread and see if we get a better perspective. In each of the quotes I am going to replace the victimizing reference with something else. "but of course what he said isn't right. I'm sure a lot of gayfools around the globe feel that way" "but I agree that rampant Hispanics is a bad thing." "i think the homosexuals views should carry absolutely no weight" "homosexuals seems to have more power over the mindless sheep then anything else, and thats the real problem" Funny that when a different group is switched into the comments they sound so much more offensive. As I stated earlier, the rules apply to everyone, regardless of the current political climate. Because it's PC to hound religion we should ignore the rules? I for one won't. I've seen this same problem a few weeks ago on a thread about parents. Someone complaining about what a bitch his mother was. Guess what? Many of Neowin members are parents. Many are religious. It's a moderators job to watch out for everyone, regardless of their background or persuasion. Freedom of speech is all nice and good. It does not, however, apply here at Neowin when it conflicts with the board guidelines or seeks to discriminate against a board member of any background. dead anything can be taken outta context like that and changed .... Guess what? Many of Neowin members are idiots. Many are religious. see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deadzombie Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by Dazzla It was democratic in that there was more then one person making the decision. What do you want us to do instead? Create a new thread and make a poll asking the members? Dazzla; Did Neobond tell you this was a democracy?:rolleyes: I have always been under the impression that Neowin was an Autocractic Dictatorship! At least that what it says on my Neowin armband... Hail Neobond! Ruler of Neowin! Seems to me some people would just do away with any moderation and let Neowin degenerate into a chaotic anarchy...which has happened at other sites before, killing the site dead. (Not that dead is bad...some of my best friends are dead) Anyhow, my decision stands. I haven't received any PM or emails concerning the closing, nor has any site staff contacted me. Sorry if you guys disagree, but that's all I'm going to say on this for now. (In the future, I will close threads like this one...if you disagree with a mod contact the staff in private.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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