magik Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 I started the post prior to your response... I am at work so I cannot refresh each time before hitting submit... regardless of the responses... he still posts as soon as he sees anything anti-PS3... thats just his attitude toward this whole 360 vs ps3 issue... and im tired of seeing his posts all over the microsoft gaming area... I see. Well, read those posts and you'll see that he wasn't trying to start anything. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PL_ Veteran Posted August 21, 2006 Veteran Share Posted August 21, 2006 You can use any 2.5" SATA. Like laptop HDDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ok... Speed: PS3 - 4x Xbox 360 - 12x Xbox 360 games are designed with the hard-drive in mind... fully optimised, But they also have a "core" mode. So both consoles with hard-drives cache the data... Only the PS3 is three times slower... :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ^ How is the PS3's hard drive slower? Aren't they both SATA? Like laptop HDDs? Yup but those can get a little pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Like laptop HDDs? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ^ How is the PS3's hard drive slower? Aren't they both SATA? Yup but those can get a little pricey. Well... The information will be feed to the HD 3 times slower. No large hard-drive will compensate for the slow Blu-ray drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Well... The information will be feed to the HD 3 times slower. No large hard-drive will compensate for the slow Blu-ray drive That's why you use the hard drive as a cache...so the game can access certain data when it needs to from the HDD, instead of accessing the disc itself. It's not like games will copy data to the hard drive, and then load from the hard drive. It's a combination. Just like the Xbox did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Im just saying... Xbox 360 is faster streaming and caching data. Best of both worlds :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Im just saying... Xbox 360 is faster streaming and caching data. Best of both worlds :p Except, like I said earlier in this thread, not every Xbox 360 has a hard drive, and so developers cannot assume a hard drive is present, and cannot expect every 360 owner to have a hard drive. And therefore, it's a mistake to assume that just because the Blu-ray read speed is lower than DVD's that load times will be bad - developers can and will use the HDD in the PS3 to a completely different level. Hopefully :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpotato Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ok... Speed: PS3 - 4x Xbox 360 - 12x Xbox 360 games are designed with the hard-drive in mind... fully optimised, But they also have a "core" mode. So both consoles with hard-drives cache the data... Only the PS3 is three times slower... :p X's arn't a speed measurement, Mbps are a speed measurement. I suggest you read this. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show...mp;user=skektek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) Except, like I said earlier in this thread, not every Xbox 360 has a hard drive, and so developers cannot assume a hard drive is present, and cannot expect every 360 owner to have a hard drive. And therefore, it's a mistake to assume that just because the Blu-ray read speed is lower than DVD's that load times will be bad - developers can and will use the HDD in the PS3 to a completely different level. Hopefully :rofl: And as i said earlier... They will focus on the users with hard-drives. Sure the core people will suffer slightly but im sure the 5 owners of core systems wont mind too much. Care to elaborate on how developers will use the HDD to a 'completely different level' ? Edited August 21, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 And as i said earlier... They will focus on the users with hard-drives. Sure the core people will suffer slightly but im sure the 5 owners of core systems wont mind too much. ^ That's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've read in a long time. Congrats for that. (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ^ That's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've read in a long time. Congrats for that. (Y) :yes: A lot of people have core systems, I don't but you've got to not be mean to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Care to elaborate on how developers will use the HDD to a 'completely different level' ? Uhhh....I hate replying to the ignorant. (Seriously, take a moment to read the thread...my new friend magik, and Lazy Tiger, and myself went through this :p) The difference is that they can fully exploit the HDD without detrimentally effecting anyone. As a developer you can't just blindly ignore the Core users. Whether or not devs focus on the Xbox 360 users with a HDD is irrelevant. The point is that Blu-ray's lower read speed will be compensated for effectively because of the presence of a hard drive in every single PS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecaveman Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 The original Xbox had HDD in every console, yet the majority of games did not take advantage of it at all (except for saving). That's because most games are cross platform and PS2 didn't have HDD except by a very limited addon. Microsoft's decicion to not include HDD was based on the fact Sony was going to make HDD a seperate purchase on the PS3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhav Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Microsoft's decicion to not include HDD was based on the fact Sony was going to make HDD a seperate purchase on the PS3... I guess it's the first time Sony not delivering on what its promised is actually a good thing :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecaveman Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ^ yeah I wonder if Sony did that on purpose to mislead Microsoft :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzdawg Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 The original Xbox had HDD in every console, yet the majority of games did not take advantage of it at all (except for saving). That's because most games are cross platform and PS2 didn't have HDD except by a very limited addon. Microsoft's decicion to not include HDD was based on the fact Sony was going to make HDD a seperate purchase on the PS3... hmm... wont the game developers run into this same situation with cross-platform design?... if they are going to base it on the fact that not all 360 owners have a hdd... it would then go against the people who have the hdd/ps3... makes ya wonder why the 2 biggest names(im leaving out nintendo for now) wouldnt try to make it easier for developers to create the games for BOTH consoles... ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan_X Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 the original Xbox had 64mb of UMA and the 360 has 512mb of UMA, the HDD was used to do some game data caching on certain games and only a few of them like Halo2 were fully optimized to use the HDD. why you may ask? the lower clock speed and the amount of ram on the original Xbox didn't allowed lazy game devs to create dynamic ram drives for game data caching. this is not an issue on the 360 because of the higher clock speed and the larger amount of ram available to the system. game devs can create dynamic ram drives using part of the 512mb present on the system without impacting game performance. you can use 16mb for audio decoding, 128mb for AI and phx, 256mb for video decoding and 100mb for the ram drive and you'll still have 12mb remaining. the ever present XOS run on its own memory never uses the system memory. ram drives are more efficient because the data travels from the optical drive to the ram and stays there as long as its needed, HDD caching is less efficient and requires a more efficient memory management because the data most travel from the optical drive to ram and then to the HDD and back to the ram. this is why at Microsoft we opted to go this way this time around and at the same time take out a few bucks from the console's tag. :happy: :yes: you see guys, at Microsoft we care about your gaming experience and your pockets... :laugh: :rofl: :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 hmm... wont the game developers run into this same situation with cross-platform design?... if they are going to base it on the fact that not all 360 owners have a hdd... it would then go against the people who have the hdd/ps3... makes ya wonder why the 2 biggest names(im leaving out nintendo for now) wouldnt try to make it easier for developers to create the games for BOTH consoles... ugh... Not really. On the PS3, developers will compensate for the slow Blu-Ray read times by caching data, on the Xbox 360, developers won't have to worry about caching and will just utilize the fast DVD read times. EDIT: I think Spartan_X's explanation was a bit more thorough and thus a better explanation :p Thanks Spartan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecaveman Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Spartan if that really was true why does Oblivion load faster with the HDD and why do so many developers complain about the lack of HDD? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1WayJonny Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Taiwanese Developers are the guys who run the disc duplicators they praise MS for allowing them to continure on with DVD9 as they would have to upgrade all the towers :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan_X Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Spartan if that really was true why does Oblivion load faster with the HDD and why do so many developers complain about the lack of HDD? :) cuz most of them are a bunch of lazy bastards that doesn't know how to write a proper line of code... :p instead of moving to the HDD the data they need or what they'll be using most of them will just throw in the whole level into the HDD rather than just part of it, impacting game performance because of the increased constant HDD reading access. its not the same reading data from a 100mb ram drive than reading data from a 1gb HDD partition. you can go around the net and you'll find that the only ones complaining about the lack of a default HDD are the ones that rarely takes advantage of it... :wacko: :rolleyes: :pinch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PL_ Veteran Posted August 21, 2006 Veteran Share Posted August 21, 2006 Let's leave it like this: A HDD is slower than RAM 512MB of RAM in a console, according to Phantom Entertainment, equates to 2GB of RAM in a PC The Xbox 360 has a load of RAM, coupled with a fast DVD player, making it efficient Some games, when a HDD is detected, slip into hyper-drive mode, allowing for a marginally more awesome experience The PS3 has a HDD, which screwed MS's strategy The PS3 has a HDD, which can be used for BD caching The PS3 has the same amount of RAM as the 360, so it's like it's slipped into ultimate mega-mode, but BD drags it down All this memory shifting is going to take up a lot of code... Right...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Some games, when a HDD is detected, slip into hyper-drive mode, allowing for a marginally more awesome experience :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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