WOW! am i impressed!

[akuma1]

okay - I dont want to get flamed, all I want to do is ask a simple question about Apples and why y'all think they are better:

I understand that macs are great for graphic designers and audio producers. I have friends that are both, have worked with them on projects and understand why they swear by them - especially the graphic designer.

I cannot understand, however, why a mac is a better home or office PC. DOnt give me the breakdown BSOD argument, because my work system never crashes. Home is a different story, because I tinker with that system. In fact that is the benefit to me of a PC, I can tinker with that thing to no end.

So what makes a mac so much better? It can't be the fact that it is easier to DL pictures from a digital camera. In WinXP all I do is plug in my camera to my USB port, and viola! the digital pictures wizard takes care of the rest!

I am very interested in why you guys think that Apples are better?

I've been a mac user all my life. I started using them in 9th grade. About the same time that I started using them daily, my parents bought me an AT&T computer, that ran DOS. I did not enjoy it, and was confused as to why it wouldn't work like the mac's that I used at school. (I've since learned the differences between a GUI and the command line :p ).

Anyway, fast forward to my first year in college, and it comes time to buy my first mac. Why buy a mac over a PC? To be honest, I got a better deal on a performa, than I would have if I bought the generic PC's that best buy was offering at the time (remember when Best Buy sold mac's? :) ). Almost 6 years later, I still use that mac for light duty here and there (mostly it just crunches SETI units). I've also since upgraded to a Blue and White g3, and a g4 cube.

I probably will never own a PC. I guess it's just personal preference. I really like Mac's. I really like the Mac OS. It just makes sense, for me. The way you can plug in a printer and have it instantly available to all mac's on my network, is really nice. The fact that Apache is built in so that I can stage websites on my home computer is nice. The fact that I can write and develop programs, without having to buy something like codeWarrior, is nice.

If I want to run a screensaver as my desktop background, I can do that too. :)

For me it's all about simplicity. I don't want a zillion dialog boxes to pop up when I plug a mouse in, I just want it to work. The macintosh has always been about simplicity for me. When I first got into video editing, there was an option to either buy a PC, then buy a capture card, and a sound card. The camera that we were looking at had something called a "firewire" port. So I started looking for a PC that had firwire capabilities. Back in 98 there wasn't much out there for firewire. Except for macintosh. The blue and white g3 that apple offered at the time was probably one of the first models to have a firewire port on it. So a mac it was. What amazed me was, all I needed to do to get Adobe Premiere to work with the camera was to grab a plug in from adobe's site. Everything integrated seamlessly. I was capturing, editing, and exporting to tape within the first couple of hours. Things like that are why I like mac's.

I also play games on my mac. (how's that for a shocker). I just worked my way through Soldier of Fortune II and I'm getting ready to invade Africa in Medal of Honor. :)

All the games that I have tried to play on my mac work just fine. And this is on a 450 mhz g4 with a 16 meg video card. The argument that mac's are not good for games is starting to get old. There are plenty of games available for the mac, and the ones that are out are usually pretty good. I agree that the selection of games is a little low, but it works for me.

I think it all boils down to a person's preference. I, for one, will probably never own a wintel computer. I just don't think they are worth the money.

I'm happy to pay a premium for a computer that will last me a while. I've had my performa for 6 years now, my g3 for almost 4 and my cube for about a year. Pretty soon I'll add another mac to the pile, probably an iBook for my wife. And I'm quite confident that it will go the distance as well.

[BigMoe]

This is turning into an "Switch" to mac commercial, LoL :D

[Miran]

The fact that I can write and develop programs, without having to buy something like codeWarrior, is nice.

You aren't forced to purchase an IDE on windows - there are plenty of VERY good compilers/editors.. Emacs is free, so is Cygwin which includes gcc/g++. Plus you get to run a pseudo-unix and still open MS word a coupla seconds later.. Hehe..

Not bashing Macs, since I love them and I'm in the process of saving up for one ($700 down, $1800 left to go.... :( )..

[akuma1]

You aren't forced to purchase an IDE on windows - there are plenty of VERY good compilers/editors.. Emacs is free, so is Cygwin which includes gcc/g++. Plus you get to run a pseudo-unix and still open MS word a coupla seconds later.. Hehe..

I know that emacs is free. It runs on windows? (excuse the ignorance on my part, I haven't used windows in a very long time).

I know that various programming options are available for other OSes, but apple's Project Builder/Interface Builder combination, is a very elegant way to develop and produce working programs. It's helps that it's free to get and fairly easy to use. Of course it won't teach you how to program, but as long as you have even a slight knowledge of C, obj-c/cocoa is pretty easy to learn. :)

[Gator]

Yeah, but gamers would rather be playing games on their PCs than waiting a year for the Mac version to port over. Also, Stardock's Windowsblinds, Object Desktop, etc. could probably recreate OSX's look in 3-4 programs.

When I owned my Powerbook, I was impressed with OS9 and the easy of installing software (no registry entries, just copy and open). It just didn't provide me with what I needed, so I sold it to a friend who is a huge Mac enthusiast.

Still, My Toshiba laptop (P4 1.7 Ghz, 512 MB Ram, GeForce4 card, built in Harmon Kardon speakers/subwoofer, 3 USB, 1 firewire, signature capturing trackpad, DVD/CDRW combo, 40 GB HDD) is the ONLY choice for gaming for me (Dell and Alienware are around the same specs but more expensive). I would switch to Apple due to reliability purposes, but they are missing the market by not appealing to gamers, especially mobile ones. But, if they ever decided to switch that way, I would be one of the first to be waiting in line.

Exactly, you need 3-4 third party apps always running on your system just to make XP look like OS X.

I think it is safe to say that there are more people out there who buy computers for professional use than for gaming. Meaning they are more concerned with portability and ease of use than what frame rate it has in Quake.

[briangw]

I think it all boils down to a person's preference.  I, for one, will probably never own a wintel computer.  I just don't think they are worth the money.

That's another reason why I don't own a Mac. I love to build/reconfigure computers. Because Macs are proprietary, I can't build myself a Mac from scratch. With PCs, there are so many inexpensive parts to work with, it comes out as a better deal for me as well as being lighter on my wallet. I always wished Apple would let others manufacture parts.

[jessejlt]

Well I could spill a couple of pages worth of text in this post explaining why I've switched my Apple, but:

1. I don't have the time.

2. Nobody would read the whole thing :D

So I'll just give you the summary.

A Windows based computer cannot touch the way a UNIX based computer feels. I know this is a tired subject, but for you PC users that truely want to get an idea of what I'm talking about, install a Linux flavor on one of your partitions and play with it for a few hours. It will be a great experience for you, but it will also give you an idea of what I mean by Windows and UNIX having a different "feel." I wish I could make it more tangeble for you, but I cannot.

Yes macs are expensive, they are overpriced as all hell. For the same price you could get a big fat monster PC with windows and big fat copper coolers and huge fans with lights all throughout, but it will still be a Windows PC. Now I don't speek for the iBook though, the iBook is an excellent value and for the price you cn't get a Wintel machine that could touch it.

I'm VERY happy with my iBook. It's my first mac and I absolutely love it. Every bell and whistel you can think of is in this thing, and they've done such a good job with the details, it's a great achine. So much so, that I sold my desktop after a couple months of having my iBook. And this was no lame ass desktop, it was a great machine....but a Windows machine nonetheless. Okay enough rambling.

jesse ;-)

[briangw]

Yeah, but gamers would rather be playing games on their PCs than waiting a year for the Mac version to port over. Also, Stardock's Windowsblinds, Object Desktop, etc. could probably recreate OSX's look in 3-4 programs.

When I owned my Powerbook, I was impressed with OS9 and the easy of installing software (no registry entries, just copy and open). It just didn't provide me with what I needed, so I sold it to a friend who is a huge Mac enthusiast.

Still, My Toshiba laptop (P4 1.7 Ghz, 512 MB Ram, GeForce4 card, built in Harmon Kardon speakers/subwoofer, 3 USB, 1 firewire, signature capturing trackpad, DVD/CDRW combo, 40 GB HDD) is the ONLY choice for gaming for me (Dell and Alienware are around the same specs but more expensive). I would switch to Apple due to reliability purposes, but they are missing the market by not appealing to gamers, especially mobile ones. But, if they ever decided to switch that way, I would be one of the first to be waiting in line.

Exactly, you need 3-4 third party apps always running on your system just to make XP look like OS X.

I think it is safe to say that there are more people out there who buy computers for professional use than for gaming. Meaning they are more concerned with portability and ease of use than what frame rate it has in Quake.

Yeah, but you originally said 15. I just wanted to bring that number down. :D

I wouldn't agree with the other statement. I know one company who switched from Macs to PCs for Autocad work, claiming that PCs were becoming more powerful than Macs and more cost efficient compared to the prices of Macs. Even schools are dumping Macs in favor of PCs. (At least my old high school and college did)

Point is, I think everyone deep down knows how reliable Macs are. It's just that Apple needs to find some way to reach out to others (I really want to build a Mac from the ground up!!!)

And those "Switch" commercials really tick me off. Like the one about the woman who saved Xmas because her father needed to d/l drivers into his PC for his camera to work. Well, if he didn't have a "1940's" 35 millimeter and the lack of high speed internet (I know, I'm stretching it), yeah, I'd understand. But XP saw my Kodak right away, without the software or the CD of drivers.

Edited December 12, 2002 by briangw

[akuma1]

With PCs, there are so many inexpensive parts to work with, it comes out as a better deal for me as well as being lighter on my wallet. I always wished Apple would let others manufacture parts.

I'm pretty sure that the only thing apple has a tight grip on is the motherboard. Everything is exactly the same as what is available for the PC side (with the execption being maybe video cards, but that's more the card manufacturer's ROM issues).

Same hard drives, same RAM, same cables, same fans.

I don't disagree with your point about lower prices, cause yeah, you can usually find a cheaper things (like video cards, etc) on the PC side, and to upgrade the motherboard/chipset is a little easier on the PC side, but I think that most mac users don't really care about those types of things. Other than adding a couple of hard drives (to get my combined storage up over 200 gigs) and maxing out all my systems with RAM, I haven't added anything to my computers, nor have I needed to.

That'll change when I updgrade my cube early next year, but that is more of a "just for fun" upgrade rather than a "I need to upgrade" upgrade. :D

[mikejd1]

wow, i started a good thread. :)

[Island Roots]

Anyone ever heard of the saying...whatever floats your boat? :wacko:

[the evn show]

Here's a link for all those wanting to build a g4 from the ground up (it obviously won't be a "macintosh" because apple didn't make it). http://www.macopz.com/buildamac/ I think this would be an excellent (fake) .mac server, or for those plan to build their own case out of plexi.

So now get out their a roll your own dang it!

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

Quite personally I am sick and tired of people wanting mac users to justify why they have a mac. In the summer of 2000, I went out and bought a 3k+ alienware system and a laptop that cost 1500. I paid 30,000+ in cash for my 2001 xterra as soon as they came on the market, 8000+ in cash for a second hand 1997 taurus, and 300,000+ in cash for my house that is in Colorado. If I have the shaging money to spend on a mac, what the shag gives some ****ant that is probably still sponging off their parents the right to question my decision.

I'm sick and tired of this anti-mac ranting bullpoop that seems to happen over and over on this website.

[mikejd1]

Quite personally I am sick and tired of people wanting mac users to justify why they have a mac. In the summer of 2000, I went out and bought a 3k+ alienware system and a laptop that cost 1500. I paid 30,000+ in cash for my 2001 xterra as soon as they came on the market, 8000+ in cash for a second hand 1997 taurus, and 300,000+ in cash for my house that is in Colorado. If I have the shaging money to spend on a mac, what the shag gives some ****ant that is probably still sponging off their parents the right to question my decision.

I'm sick and tired of this anti-mac ranting bullpoop that seems to happen over and over on this website.

do you wipe yer ass with 3k+ toilet paper?

[Gator]

If I want and have the money for a Porsche I'll buy it. Same with the damn Mac. If you don't have the money dont buy it.

[frod]

i don't understand the whole cost thing sometimes.

let me go to dell and see how different prices really are....

alright here we go.

dell:

2.2 GHz, 15" UXGA, 768 MB RAM, 60 GB HD, 64 MB Radeon, additional battery (bringing total uptime to 5 hours or so), 100mbit ethernet, internal wifi card, cdrw that can play dvds

$3493

mac:

1 GHz, 15" display, 1 gig of ram, 60 gb hd, 64 mb radeon, gigabit ethernet, built in airport, dvd-r/cdrw superdrive

$3033

now let's say we upgrade the dell to 1 gig of ram, gigabit ethernet, and a dvd-r, how much would it be then? probably around 4 grand.

processor speed is about the only thing you don't get with the mac, but personally 1 grand and 5 pounds extra for 1.2 GHz isn't really a good deal to me considering ram is more important than processor speed.

not to mention osx is much better than winxp

i mean don't get me wrong, i don't even own a mac yet. i don't know what the pricing is like for desktops since i'm only looking to purchase a lappy. but seeing what i see here, people's whole bitching about apple's hardware costing so much more is bull to me. and games. heh. the only game i really play nowadays is warcraft 3 and that is mac compatible. i think currently more and more people are going to start using macs. (i mean we can all admit those stupid commercials are going to win over most of the US. i live here, i know how following the populace is). once more and more people start using macs more and more games are going to be released for them at the same time the pc version is.

buying a mac vs pc is really all preference based though. i'm really looking forward to getting my power book and loading up Logic Platinum with Absynth and connecting an Oxygen8 to it and delving into the wonderful world of electronic music production. logic is dropping their pc line and absynth was originally created only for the mac. those two facts probably played a major role in my decision.

plus, have you seen the powerbook? <drools> haha.

okay i'm done

[threetonesun]

If I want and have the money for a Porsche I'll buy it. Same with the damn Mac. If you don't have the money dont buy it.

lol...yeah, and people wonder why there's the "elitist Mac owner" stereotype out there.

And for every one who complains about Windows abilites to recognize cameras/printers/etc and install the right drivers...have you ever used Windows XP? I'll admit, every Microsoft OS before 2000 was crap (in my opinion), but XP has been rock solid for me. I built my own computer over the summer...XP has never crashed. Not once. And, it's never taken more than 10 seconds to get anything I plug into it working.

I also think Neowin is an unfair representation of the computer owning public (especially suprising since it is Neowin). On our campus, about 2% of the students use Macs. It's about the same on every campus. Go into any local computer store...if you're lucky you'll find one or two Macs on display. We even have a Mac-only store near me...and, it's certainly never the most crowded store in the mall.

[pureevilmatt]

With a Windows based PC as opposed to a MAC, you'll get access to more and cheaper apps, more and better games, the ability to install multiple operating systems if you should choose, and the ability to upgrade till the cows come home. PCs have everything MACs offer and more, but for cheaper.

I used to hate windows... till this day I still prefer a properly configured Linux or BSD distro, but only because they're free, I don't mind 30 mins to an hour of setup time to get my OS humming, and I abosolutely loathe MS product activation. But once you get past activeation, and getting rid of the fruitloops theme XP comes default with... it's without a doubt the best OS I've ever used. Microsoft may be evil, but you have to admit they're damn good at it.

OSX is pretty and functional and easy to use, and it can be argued that it crashes a little less often than XP(not true in my experience.. In over a year, I've never had XP hard hang on me, whereas in that time every other modern 'professional' OS, Mandrake9, Redhat8.. and yes, MacOSX (10.21.) have all hard hanged on me at some point.. and I use XP 10 time more often than those OSes.) But to me, OS is just a piece of software, a tool, and when considered in those respects, both XP and OSX are exceptional, any would be a good choice.

However, the PC as a platform is infinitely more versatile, and XP running on PC gives me a lot more options than OSX on MAC hardware. As long as that's true, I will always choose PC over mac. Even when cashflow isn't a factor, I'd advise the purchase of a PC with WinXp over a Mac any day.

As an aside... I'm looking forward to the day apple releases the OSX code for PC. That would be sweet.

Question for anyone who might read this:

Isn't apple obligated to release their code because OSX is based on BSD, which is GNU? I've never taken time to read the billion pages of the license... and I'm not up on copyright law. Far too much babble. Maybe Apple has already done this?

[frod]

darwin is just a bsd derivative. all the stuff on top of it also isn't darwin. i mean if they had to release the code for darwin it still wouldn't make much of a difference since you wouldn't get the graphical part of osx anyways.

i don't see how software for mac is more expensive, every piece of software that i've seen that has a mac and a pc version was the same price for both. readily available? well basically everything i use on pc is avaiable for mac. (i don't play many games, just use photoshop, office, and aim mainly, heh).

i've never had winxp hang on me either. i like winxp and my windows machine, but there's something about osx and powerbooks that has swayed me to apple for my hopefully soon laptop purchase.

eh whatever, time for sleep :p

[brn2prgrm]

I, being a PC to Mac switcher, must say that I love my new iMac, not only is the OS state-of-the-art but so is the design of the computer itself. I'll admit I miss the gaming a bit but like the others said, that's why I have a PS2 and XBOX. What people buy with their money is entirely up to them and they shouldn't be criticized because of it. Each person uses a computer for different reasons and those are the debating factors of the PC and Mac choice. I feel PC users are constantly empty handily bashing the Mac for pointless reasons. And also, yes i'll admit Mac users are more defensive when it comes to bashing their Mac but that's because we're a minority :p Besides who can argue with this beauty?(not me :)):

[eth3l]

It is all a preference. I wanted to know why Apple ppl had such a preference . . . thanks for all the great posts!

[brn2prgrm]

Isn't apple obligated to release their code because OSX is based on BSD, which is GNU? I've never taken time to read the billion pages of the license... and I'm not up on copyright law. Far too much babble. Maybe Apple has already done this?

Apple has released the core code of OS X which was based on BSD at http://www.apple.com/darwin but nothing more than that. Like frod just said, you won't get the pretty Aqua interface or program compatiblity, that is all first party window manager, aqua interface, etc. code.

[azazel-]

So...lemme get this straight. After all is said and done, the main reason for owning a PC is because it's cheaper and easier to upgrade? Or because there are "more and better games"? Hmm...what's this sitting next to me? Why...a dual-purpose XP/OS X copy of Warcraft 3! How'd that get here? Must be magic. Wait, more magic! John Carmack said that they are developing Doom 3 for Windows and Mac *simultaneously*. Horror of horrors! No porting! Guess what guys...any game worth playing will be out for both. You may have *more* games, but I'm not into Deerhunter Extreme 3D, so that's all good. Keep 'em. And need I elaborate on how sincerely cool it is to be able to run Photoshop 7, and be able to click over to my virtual terminals that are running BitchX and nmap? I don't think I need to. Or that hell, if I wanted to, I could scrap Aqua and install XFree86 and run Enlightenment, Gnome, WindowMaker, or any of the hundreds of other open source apps that are available. Earlier today, I was installing XP in Virtual PC, although it didn't stick around long, since I started tasting bile in my throat....

Can PC users install OS X in Virtual PC in XP? No? Oh well...

Have I ever ran XP? Um...yeah, as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. I bought (on my own, with my own money, from my own job, not living with my parents) my first PC in mid '95. Since then, I've built and rebuilt close to three dozen systems, either for myself, my family members, co-workers, or for outright sale. I've owned 4 laptops, including the iBook I'm typing this on, as well as 3 different PDA's in the past year. I've used every Windows version since 3.1. I had NT before it was on the store shelves, same with XP (*wink wink*). 95 and 98 the day they came out. I'm also fluent with linux (6 different distros, fave being Slack, also the -first- distro I ever used), FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, QNX, BeOS...um...think that's it. Up until right around a month or so ago, I was solely a Wintel/x86 user. So yeah, I guess you could say I know what I'm talking about when I say this; this iBook is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best computer purchase I have ever made, and OS X is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the best OS I have -ever- used, bar none. The speed can be somewhat lacking, but that is made up for in countless other ways.

And up until a few months ago, I hated macs and mac users. Glad I decided to f*ck around with one for a few minutes.

:D

[akuma1]

And up until a few months ago, I hated macs and mac users. Glad I decided to f*ck around with one for a few minutes.

:D

Don't you mean fsck ? :p

:sigh: okay it's a bad joke... whatever. :D

[azazel-]

And up until a few months ago, I hated macs and mac users.  Glad I decided to f*ck around with one for a few minutes.  

:D

Don't you mean fsck ? :p

:sigh: okay it's a bad joke... whatever. :D

I was so close to typing that...but I didn't know if it would be appreciated. ;)