TheElite Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 The onus of proof is on those who propose the existence of a supreme being, not the other way round.Ok If your alleged proof stands up to logic and reasoning then I see no reason why anyone would not believe it. That would be the logical thinking So you're essentially saying that only those who accept the existence of a higher being would accept the proof of said being because only when you accept the existence of the aforementioned being could the evidence in support of it make any sense. Not really. Well, you have to first accept the notion that a higher being exists in order to be able to understand the reasoning behind it Cheap defined by who? You? And since when did you represent everyone else? I don't. I'm sorry if I implied it that way Please dont generalize ALL atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acies Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 (edited) No, I believe in God because my mind says he exists. Why should I not believe in him? Because you shouldn't always trust the little voice/s in your head?? beyond your own mind why should you believe?? If you choose not to keep a closed mind, then you'll see the bigger picture. wooooah, hold the phone ET! You can't seriously think that when you choose to believe in a god "because your mind tells you" that you have an open mind?!? My logic is, why should I need to believe in something? There is, from my view (whether god/s exists or not), no decent reason to think god exists. And hence no reason to believe. Theres no point being nihilistic and thinking that its all meaningless. Where are you getting the idea that atheists are nihilistic!??! Just because I don't believe in any religions, or pray to any gods, doesn't mean everything is meaningless. I don't see how a God can suddenly make things even more meaningful. Characters in a book are still meaningless out side of the story. It is laughable to think we are here on a planet, doing our things for no reason. Everything has a purpose. Did your mind tell you that?? If you think life is meaningless then your life is cheap Life can never be personally meaningless, I wouldn't be sitting here otherwise. Edited May 19, 2007 by acies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Enigmatik Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 According to scientists, the universe came out of a super, super dense atom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 So, there was only this one atom in existence? NOTHING else was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acies Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 There are probably things that we couldn't even begin to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksoft Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 so, there was a super-ultra-mega-condensed point which exploded.... but what was around that point? empty space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Just because we can't intuitively understand it doesn't make it impossible. We can't intuitively understand quantum mechanics without converting the notions into abstract mathematics either. It's just the environment we evolved in that makes the idea seem weird because it flies in the face of how we, as a species, see the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 If we find out, do you think the findings will contradict and laws/teachings of physics we have today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echilon Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Impressive, but not particularly useful to know :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acies Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 If we find out, do you think the findings will contradict and laws/teachings of physics we have today? perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 If we find out, do you think the findings will contradict and laws/teachings of physics we have today? If it does, science will do as science does and accept facts and will change human understanding. It's happened before with things such as relativity and the aether but I think people are setting themselves up for a shock if they think any answer to a question like what happened before the big bang will be anything but a completely baffling and practically incomprehensible bunch of calculations contradictory to our every day common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 If it does, science will do as science does and accept facts and will change human understanding. It's happened before with things such as relativity and the aether but I think people are setting themselves up for a shock if they think any answer to a question like what happened before the big bang will be anything but a completely baffling and practically incomprehensible bunch of calculations contradictory to our every day common sense. So, if we do get something useful out of it, even though understanding it may take some time, which area of physics would it most likely over-rule or change our understanding of? Or speculation is of no use here as we don't know any of the possible outcomes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 I love how someone who calls themselves a "scientist" or an "astronomer" can make these wild statements about how old something is and how that relates to the age of the universe. All that they can do is extrapolate data that they have been taking in a very short amount of time (a fraction of a "blink" of time in comparison with the age of the universe) and come up with these wild statements. Extrapolated data can not be trusted... any educated person would know better. It is like "carbon dating." Pfffffft. The ego on some peoples shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 So, if we do get something useful out of it, even though understanding it may take some time, which area of physics would it most likely over-rule or change our understanding of? Or speculation is of no use here as we don't know any of the possible outcomes? Can you rephrase this please, I don't quite get what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 My apologies. If we find something that contradicts our current understanding of physics, which specific area of physics is this likely to occur in? Or is there no point speculating as we don't know what the outcome will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 To be honest, as I've said in other threads; as much as I love and follow science, I'm simply a cheerleader and in no way a technical-scientific thinker, though I believe myself to have a very good understanding of what science is and it's role. Maybe someone like Ripgut could speculate about something like this but I wouldn't even want to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 My apologies.If we find something that contradicts our current understanding of physics, which specific area of physics is this likely to occur in? Depends on what is doscovered... Or is there no point speculating as we don't know what the outcome will be? Formulation of an hypothesis is a critical step within the scientific method, it is used to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation ( an equation is derived) explaining the phenomena and/or making a prediction, based on current evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 So what you're saying is that we cannot predict anything because we don't have any evidence of what it could be like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 So what you're saying is that we cannot predict anything because we don't have any evidence of what it could be like? A prediction in science is based off of evidence that is currently available, let me put it this way. If you cram a jar full of flies, by knowing the current pattern of how flies, fly. You can predict that when you release the lid of that jar that they are going to fly in random directions as opposed to one single uniformed flight pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 What I am saying is, what prediction is there about what will happen when the try to see the "Big Bang" again? And what evidence is there that "this" will happen, provided it does happen. AND, what evidence is there that the universe came from a single densely packed atom, and that this was the only thing in existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 What I am saying is, what prediction is there about what will happen when the try to see the "Big Bang" again? And what evidence is there that "this" will happen, provided it does happen.AND, what evidence is there that the universe came from a single densely packed atom, and that this was the only thing in existence? I have to take my newborn son to his first checkup, but here: Cosmology FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 We'll just have to now see if they find out anything useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 We'll just have to now see if they find out anything useful. Useful? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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