Seagate's Drives to Work Selectively with Operating Systems

By markwolfe
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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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Source: Softpedia.com

Seagate's Free Agent series of external had drives are making worldwide users pluck their hair out in anger. It seems that the 'Go small' slogan should be replaced with 'Go nuts' since Linux users are discriminated after they have paid a pretty salty price. While Linux would manage almost any type of cards, ranging from ancient Arcnet card to the studio-grade A/D/A converters, the open-source operating system is put in an impossible situation when it comes to Seagate's Free Agent.

First of all, the disk comes already NTFS-formatted, which makes it hard yet not impossible for Linux users to use. Many of them would enable NTFS writing and get it over with. What drives them insane is the nifty feature implemented by Seagate in the disk: the "power saving" timer. The feature would ensure that the disk is automatically shut down after several minutes of inactivity ? a green initiative that would be extremely helpful for notebook users, if only it worked properly.

When the drive is shut off after a prolonged inactivity time, the USB connection is automatically dropped off. When the disk turns active again and the USB connection comes back, it returns as USB1 (and not as USB2, the previous state), which renders the drive useless. While Windows operating system can easily manage the situation, Linux and Mac OSes hang.

The Seagate Tech Support division is helpless when it comes to this. It is alleged that there is a workaround to fix the situation, but neither tech support nor the specialists can provide it. The official Seagate statement is that their state-of-the-art external storage line can't cope with Linux. Plain stupid. According to Rose Allen, Seagate Tech Support chief, there are specific workarounds to make the drive Linux and Mac compatible, but under no circumstances will the tech support team disclose them to the public.

For those who may have this drive in Linux, it is reported that you can disable the standby condition with a procedure found here

$ sudo sdparm --clear STANDBY -6 /dev/sde
$ sudo sdparm -a /dev/sde
	/dev/sde: Seagate   FreeAgent Pro  400A
Power condition mode page:
  IDLE		0  [cha: n, def:  0, sav:  0]
  STANDBY	 0  [cha: n, def:  1, sav:  0]
  ICT		 0  [cha: n, def:  0, sav:  0]
  SCT		 0  [cha: n, def:9000, sav:  0]

to reset the "standby" parameter from "1" to "0"

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Grand Master

zeta_immersion

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so racist ... is not like everyone MUST use windows .. i am telling you, companie now-days have some sort of self superiority persona where they think they cna controll the user .. but is our money .. WE control them .. muhahhaha

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CelticWhisper

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It's really a shame, too. First Western Sh*tdisk deciding that their NAS device shouldn't share out anything that could conceivably be copyrighted, and now Seagate (who I normally really like) deciding that people don't deserve their full featureset if they don't use Windows (read: conform, tow the line, roll over, bend over, WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?).

Hitachi, Toshiba, other Eastern electronics manufacturers, are you seeing this? This is your chance to jump in and say "hey, you can do that stuff with our products." Just make sure your parts are up to snuff where reliability is concerned and you should be golden.

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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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Seems more like a linux and OSX problem to me? Could be wrong though.
That is part of the problem. Hardware OEMs do weird stuff (like drop the whole USB connection, then re-connect as USB1 only when they do come back), and they work with Microsoft (obviously) to ensure Windows will work and ignore *nix and OSX. Then, when these issues are discovered because the unit doesn't come back as the faster USB2, then it obviously is a Linux/OSX issue.

Your comment is like saying "all that malware... sounds like a Windows problem to me". Sure, it is accurate on the surface, as malware predominately affects Windows only. But looking deeper, you see that the malware is written to work in Windows.

And, in the case of Seagate, I can't see why even a Windows user would want to accept the drive coming back as USB1. You have to admit that is a illogical choice for Segate.

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Grand Master

+LogicalApex MVC

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so racist ... is not like everyone MUST use windows .. i am telling you, companie now-days have some sort of self superiority persona where they think they cna controll the user .. but is our money .. WE control them .. muhahhaha

This is not racist and haphazardly throwing that term around in situations like this only serve to diminish people's understanding of racism. Seagate's actions are annoying, but they are not done with the race of the user in mind. The issue isn't even discriminatory on a technology level. It seems to affect Windows as much as non-Windows (the actual drive speed will be reduced), but Windows just reacts differently (by just showing the drive as the same letter).

Don't use such powerful terms that carry a lot of historical meaning in such meaningless ways. Millions of people have, and continue to, lost their lives due to racism around the world.

That is part of the problem. Hardware OEMs do weird stuff (like drop the whole USB connection, then re-connect as USB1 only when they do come back), and they work with Microsoft (obviously) to ensure Windows will work and ignore *nix and OSX. Then, when these issues are discovered because the unit doesn't come back as the faster USB2, then it obviously is a Linux/OSX issue.

Your comment is like saying "all that malware... sounds like a Windows problem to me". Sure, it is accurate on the surface, as malware predominately affects Windows only. But looking deeper, you see that the malware is written to work in Windows.

And, in the case of Seagate, I can't see why even a Windows user would want to accept the drive coming back as USB1. You have to admit that is a illogical choice for Segate.

Couldn't agree more... I'd be ****ed that the drive was coming back as USB1 when you'd expect USB2 as you paid for. Seagate needs to get their act together.

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Zoue

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Simply smart business, why would Seagate spend unnecessary resources to cater to less than 5% of it's market?

Clearly the drives are intended for Windows users as that's their largest customer base.

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markwolfe Veteran

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Simply smart business, why would Seagate spend unnecessary resources to cater to less than 5% of it's market?
That part I find amusing is that their 'wake up' state is slow USB1. So Seagate gets to spread the lovin' to you Windows users, too! :uberhump:

It looks like Seagate didn't spend much in the way of resources for Windows, either. :p

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Ace

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First Western Sh*tdisk deciding that their NAS device shouldn't share out anything that could conceivably be copyrighted.

This only applies to people who install the WD software that comes with the drive (So that's pretty much no-one on these forums).

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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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Ahhh... Seagate has offered an "official" solution: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Workaround-...ent-73528.shtml

One of the workarounds is as simple as possible, but becomes annoying after trying it a few times. The user has to disconnect the USB connector and plug it back into the computer, so that the drive would return to full power mode.

The most efficient workaround is by using a method that involves Windows. Nathan Papadopulos, a Seagate "disk spinner", came up with the solution.

To disable the power management function with a Windows system, open the Seagate FreeAgent Tools Application, click 'Utilities' in the Command panel, select 'Adjust Drive Sleep Interval'. After this, set the interval from the dropdown menu to 'Never'. Click 'Apply' and then 'OK'.

or, apparently, disable the power standby parameter through Linux, as posted above.
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CelticWhisper

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That's pretty much what I do. For those who don't like playing with hardware, though, or who don't have the savvy to assemble their own external HDD and want to buy pre-made, this sucks.

Granted, most people without the hardware savvy probably won't be running Linux, but there are still the Mac users to consider. The Apple store sells prebuilt external HDDs, so we know there's at least some market for the things among the Mac crowd.

Then again, I'd hope that Mac users would have the sense to realize that if you have any sense, you use FireWire for external mass storage.

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2xSilverKnight

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The simplest fix would be to not buy Seagate at all. That'll teach em.

well they make the best hard drives to date.

when you got 2 western digital that has failed within 2 years, screw it lol

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Grand Master

shihchiun

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The first "issue" isn't that big a deal. How hard it is to reformat your drive? All the major operating systems have graphical interfaces for doing this. Yeah, people may not know how to do it, but it's nothing a few pages in a manual or a support page online couldn't fix.

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Grand Master

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well they make the best hard drives to date.

when you got 2 western digital that has failed within 2 years, screw it lol

So buy a regular drive and by an enclosure to go with it, problem solved

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Grand Master

mattmatik

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Then again, I'd hope that Mac users would have the sense to realize that if you have any sense, you use FireWire for external mass storage.

Absolutely. The problem is, even Apple's own products outside of the actual computer only support USB. Look at Airport Express or Extreme. People who want to share large drives over a network are stuck solid with USB as there is no FireWire port. My solution has been to just get a cheap IDE drive and get a FireWire enclosure but I digress.

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Grand Master

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If anyone is comparing speed and wondering why use Firewire if USB 2.0 on paper looks faster

FireWire - Still the Performance King!

Question: USB 2.0 is faster than FireWire...right?

Answer: No, actually FireWire is faster than USB 2.0.

Question: Hold on...USB 2.0 is a 480 Mbps interface and FireWire is a 400 Mbps interface, how can FireWire be faster?

Answer: Raw throughput rating numbers alone don't tell the whole story, as explained below.

The throughput numbers would lead you to believe that USB 2.0 provides better performance. But, differences in the architecture of the two interfaces have a huge impact on the actual sustained "real world" throughput. And for those seeking high-performance, sustained throughput is what it's all about (reading and writing files to an external hard drive for example).

Architecture - FireWire vs. USB 2.0

*

FireWire, built from the ground up for speed, uses a "Peer-to-Peer" architecture in which the peripherals are intelligent and can negotiate bus conflicts to determine which device can best control a data transfer

*

USB 2.0 uses a "Master-Slave" architecture in which the computer handles all arbitration functions and dictates data flow to, from and between the attached peripherals (adding additional system overhead and resulting in slower, less-efficient data flow control)

Performance Comparison - FireWire vs. USB 2.0

Read and write tests to the same IDE hard drive connected using FireWire and then USB 2.0 show:

Read Test:

* 5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 33% faster than USB 2.0

* 160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 70% faster than USB 2.0

Write Test:

* 5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 16% faster than USB 2.0

* 160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 48% faster than USB 2.0

FireWire - Still the Performance King!

As the performance comparison shown above confirms, FireWire remains the performance leader. And is the best choice for DV camcorders, digital audio and video devices, external hard drives, high-performance DVD burners and any other device that demands continuous high performance throughput.

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ViperAFK

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well they make the best hard drives to date.

when you got 2 western digital that has failed within 2 years, screw it lol

I don't have much experience with seagate drives, but my 4 WD drives have all worked perfectly for years. Even my old 80 GB which was formatted like every month with different linux distros and stuff (I really pounded this drive, and it's like 4 years old now) and it works perfectly, even after if fell out of my closet and hit the floor:) I have 2 WD drives in my current PC which work great (My newest a 250) I do have 1 Dell XPS with a 160GB seagate drive that's working fine (Although it's loud as hell compared to the WD's)

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.Neo

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OK. Then don't buy Seagate if you own a Mac or a PC running Linux. (Y) In the end this negative publicity will only hurt their sales, maybe not by much but in any case it isn't exactly positive.

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