Calum Veteran Posted January 3, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 3, 2009 But (from my perspective) that's exactly what is meant by "classic menu"--they shouldn't try to implement Search in the Start menu. It ****es me off to no end.After a clean boot, I have to wait and wait and wait as I'm typing "cmd[enter]" just to get to a command prompt (for example) because the hard drive's still grinding away while the system finishes loading at the same time it's doing a search. Same thing if everything got paged to disk. Well, if you don't like the Search bar in the 'start' menu, you don't have to use it! For many of us, it is much quicker to find programs and some files. Much quicker than other ways to navigate through the 'start' menu. Why would you say Microsoft shouldn't implement an element which is useful to the majority when you can easily ignore it or not use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sem XL Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 i wish microsoft make an option in W7 to change start menu like in XP i used to feel the same way i hated the new start menu when vista came out but tbh its just becase we have been using xp for so long after forcing myself to use vista from around 3 weeks i go got used to it and it isn't that bad i would prefer if we could sort it by folders first in the all programs section but there's nothing we can do about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulburner Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I love the new start menu and its enhancements in Windows 7. I like to launch paint just my clicking start, typing 'pa' and hitting enter - voila! Paint launches :) I don't even have to let go of the mouse. One annoying thing is when I type 'not' or 'note', the default is Sticky Notes instead of Notepad... so I need to type 'notep' and hit enter to launch it ;) It's worth mentioning, though, that a lot of my friends use the classic start menu in XP and I failed to convince them to use the default one. When they'd see Windows 7's menu, they'd probably just turn the computer off and run away :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_dandy_ Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 That's superfetch doing it's thing, nothing to do with indexing which is the start menu search. So what you're saying is that Superfetch is slowing me down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphen Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Time to move on. Everyone is screaming "GUI CHANGE", and getting disappointed that the gui changes so little, and then they complain about the lack of "a classic start menu". Come on, I haven't used it since 2001, when XP RTM'ed :p I belive that 8 years should be enough to adapt to new things that are better and more practical :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_dandy_ Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Well, if you don't like the Search bar in the 'start' menu, you don't have to use it! For many of us, it is much quicker to find programs and some files. Much quicker than other ways to navigate through the 'start' menu. I think that, really, my problem is that I see this edit box and always try to use it like I'd use the Run menu item. It doesn't help that the Run menu item isn't shown by default (you have to dig into the start menu properties to change that). Why would you say Microsoft shouldn't implement an element which is useful to the majority when you can easily ignore it or not use it? I never said that--Mercellus suggested that searching would be awkward to implement in the classic menu; I've only mentioned that they shouldn't try to add it to the classic menu, and only that. It's not there right now, so it's not "useful to the majority". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCheese Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'd like the classic start menu to remain, if only because it makes it easier for those of us who will be rolling out Windows 7 in a business environment. It's likely to run along side XP machines at the same time so I'd want to keep the UI has close as possible to XP during the transition. It makes it easier to direct people to applications if they can be accessed in the same way on both systems. My only personal bugbear about the vista "search" thing is that if my PC is already busy it sometimes takes 5/10 seconds to find an application I want to run. If the application is my PATH already this is kinda annoying as I can access it instantly by pressing crtl r and bringing up the run box. If I don't wait for it, it will bring up the big search window instead. I shouldn't have to bring up the run box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradavon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) About bloody time. I was amazed it made it into Vista. It's now 14 years old! I've never worked out why people love it so much, you lose so much functionality with the Classic Menu: On XP/Vista: 1. No one-click access to My Computer/My Documents etc... 2. An extra Settings menu to click before you get to Control Panel/Printers etc... 3. No Recent Programs on Start Menu On Vista: 1. No Instant Search I'd like the classic start menu to remain, if only because it makes it easier for those of us who will be rolling out Windows 7 in a business environment. It's likely to run along side XP machines at the same time so I'd want to keep the UI has close as possible to XP during the transition. The Vista Start Menu looks pretty similar to the XP one, without having to resort to the Classic menu. Personally I've always thought it's better to give users the new look straight away, they'll only usually need to learn it eventually anyway. Granted if your business changed the XP start menu to the Classic one, then it will look different but I imagine most people will be used to the XP start meny from home use. Well, if you don't like the Search bar in the 'start' menu, you don't have to use it! For many of us, it is much quicker to find programs and some files. Much quicker than other ways to navigate through the 'start' menu. Only if you're too lazy to organise your Start Menu ;). If you leave it alone you can quickly have 30-50 subfolders in the Start Menu and it becomes an utter mess. I organize mine and only have 7 subfolders. I delete all the rubbish like the uninstall shortcut and readme shortcuts. I guess some people are "mousers" - what i call people that can't do anything on the PC without a mouse. If my mouse isn't operating i can use the keyboard to change almost every single feature almost just a quick. I find it waay easier to just use the windows key with my left hand and start typing a few letters and hit enter - i don't even have to select it first before because it automatically chooses the top option (which is 95% of the time correct). I'm very much a keyboard person. I use the Command Line all the time and shortcut keys too but when it comes to the Start Menu I prefer the Mouse approach. I do agree that too many people rely on it though, never using shortcut keys for example. Edited January 4, 2009 by bradavon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think that, really, my problem is that I see this edit box and always try to use it like I'd use the Run menu item. It doesn't help that the Run menu item isn't shown by default (you have to dig into the start menu properties to change that). You can easily ignore a search box, though. It wouldn't make sense to remove a feature the majority of users find useful. As for the "Run" feature, the search bar on the start menu actually does everything the "Run" feature does and more. Therefore, there is no point in putting the "Run" feature back on the 'start' menu :) Did you know this? I never said that--Mercellus suggested that searching would be awkward to implement in the classic menu; I've only mentioned that they shouldn't try to add it to the classic menu, and only that. It's not there right now, so it's not "useful to the majority". You do realise the majority are not people who use the classic 'start' menu, right? Otherwise Microsoft would have definitely kept it in. They know what their users use as they do many usability studies and research. The majority of users use the default and improved 'start' menu and this majority does find search in the start menu useful, therefore, when you said Microsoft should not implement start menu search you were saying they should not implement a feature which the majority of users find useful. I'm sure you said they shouldn't implement start menu search, didn't you? You didn't implie whether you meant on just the classic 'start' menu or the default 'start' menu? Only if you're too lazy to organise your Start Menu ;).If you leave it alone you can quickly have 30-50 subfolders in the Start Menu and it becomes an utter mess. I organize mine and only have 7 subfolders. I delete all the rubbish like the uninstall shortcut and readme shortcuts. I agree. I do the same thing. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't even have a scrollbar in my 'start' menu now :p All my folders are neatly organised too. I was just saying the 'start' menu search is quicker for most of the users out there. Me included if I decided to use that instead of the default folder organisation which Microsoft (putting shortcuts in there by default without folders) and OEMs (all the pointless crap cluterring up the 'start' menu) give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradavon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'd wager that "most" people don't find Instant Search on the Start Menu useful. Most people are mouse users and this goes against that thinking. Techies love it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'd wager that "most" people don't find Instant Search on the Start Menu useful. Most people are mouse users and this goes against that thinking. Techies love it though. I'm not on about people who use it, I'm on about people who find it useful :) I don't use it often as I am use to using my mouse to find programs, but I know how to use it and find it very useful, especially for things like "msconfig" which aren't in the 'start' menu :) It's obvious that if the majority of users knew what it was, they would find it useful :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 But (from my perspective) that's exactly what is meant by "classic menu"--they shouldn't try to implement Search in the Start menu. It ****es me off to no end.After a clean boot, I have to wait and wait and wait as I'm typing "cmd[enter]" just to get to a command prompt (for example) because the hard drive's still grinding away while the system finishes loading at the same time it's doing a search. Same thing if everything got paged to disk. Actually, Search has been in the Start menu since (believe it or not) Windows 2000 Professional. (That was, in fact, the whole reason behind the revamping of Index Server starting with Windows 2000 Professional, and then thru XP, Vista, and now 7.) The only difference is with both Vista and 7 (more so 7 than even Vista) is that Search is more obvious (like Spotlight in Leopard or the last upgrades to Tiger). And actually, no you don't. Not in 7, Vista, or XP or even Windows 2000 Professional. You could *always* type "Program Name" "Document" from the Run line (the trick works with URLs and browsers, too, and not just IE, but Firefox or Opera or [name of alternative browser here]; it's a VERY old trick). The enhancements to Index Server over the years are so you don't have to type in the full blasted path to the executable OR the document you want to open, as Index Server will already know where they are. If there's already a default association for both the document type and an application, all YOU have to type in is the name of the file; Windows and Index Server will automagically track down the associated application and tell IT to open the file for you. It's a VERY slick trick present in no other OS. (Not Linux, not MacOS, not even Solaris.) And Windows has had it for nearly a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm not on about people who use it, I'm on about people who find it useful :)I don't use it often as I am use to using my mouse to find programs, but I know how to use it and find it very useful, especially for things like "msconfig" which aren't in the 'start' menu :) It's obvious that if the majority of users knew what it was, they would find it useful :) I've found it VERY useful; in fact, I started using it with Windows 2000 Professional, where it started becoming useful due to the first major revamp of Index Server, which was added to the desktop versions of Windows NT with 4.0 Workstation. Ever launch an application by just typing in the name of an associated file at the Run line? That trick is *old*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_dandy_ Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You can easily ignore a search box, though. It wouldn't make sense to remove a feature the majority of users find useful. As for the "Run" feature, the search bar on the start menu actually does everything the "Run" feature does and more. Therefore, there is no point in putting the "Run" feature back on the 'start' menu :) Did you know this? Of course. But that's exactly why I don't like using the search bar like I would use the Run menu--it takes forever for it to search and refresh the list of items shown as I'm typing. The Run menu doesn't perform any search, so I can just type "cmd" (or whatever), and bang, you're there, no slowdowns, no hard drive grinding away doing searches it doesn't need to do. I'm sure you said they shouldn't implement start menu search, didn't you? You didn't implie whether you meant on just the classic 'start' menu or the default 'start' menu? Just the Classic menu (it's not there, therefore, they shouldn't waste any resources trying to add it). I never said (or implied) they should remove existing functionality in the newer menu for my own sake. :-) I'm too lazy to look up my exact quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athernar Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I really believe this is not a matter of usability at all, more of a stubborn "I don't want to". People sometimes really do not know what's best for themselves, you can sit them down and show them a majorly improved system for achieving a task, but at the end of it all they'll ask if they can do it the old way, and stick with that ad infinitum. Cut the old feature out, and force them to use the new method, and while they'll use it grudgingly at first, eventually they get used to it and say "Hey, you were right. That really is a much better method!". Cut out all the unused and/or legacy UI settings and features and provide one single consistant UX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 They need to get rid of classic anything on 7. Period. The start menu is gone... and the classic theme looks hideous in 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Topham Hatt Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Classic start menu. :no: It's like someone still wanting to use feather quills for writing a letter. (N) Brill! Made my night :p Too true though, in my opinion classic start menu is awful. As soon as XP came along with it's rounded top corners and bolder features, I said goodbye to "mr box and straight cut everywhere". That's what I don't get about people and themes, everyone still seems to love the old box windows 95 look. Next you'll be asking for beige to come back into fashon! Mmmm, beige. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercellus Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 They need to get rid of classic anything on 7. Period. The start menu is gone... and the classic theme looks hideous in 7. I agree, the classic theme needs to go, the only reason it can't is because too many things still rely on it being there... I wish Microsoft would just remove it from the users view while leaving it in the operating system itself for compatibility reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 5, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 5, 2009 Of course. But that's exactly why I don't like using the search bar like I would use the Run menu--it takes forever for it to search and refresh the list of items shown as I'm typing. The Run menu doesn't perform any search, so I can just type "cmd" (or whatever), and bang, you're there, no slowdowns, no hard drive grinding away doing searches it doesn't need to do. You can do exactly the same with the 'start' search that you can in the "Run" feature. If you don't want it to search just type in "cmd" (or whatever command, file, program) and press enter. Typing in "cmd" and pressing enter does the exact same thing as it does in the "Run" feature and if you do that, pressing enter straight away, it won't search. Just the Classic menu (it's not there, therefore, they shouldn't waste any resources trying to add it). I never said (or implied) they should remove existing functionality in the newer menu for my own sake. :-) I'm too lazy to look up my exact quote. OK, I apologise for misunderstanding your point :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjak Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'd wager that "most" people don't find Instant Search on the Start Menu useful. Most people are mouse users and this goes against that thinking. Techies love it though. No techies just hit WinKey+R and type in the executable filename. There is no point in Instant Search for the Start Menu, when the filename is 8 characters (or less) long... Microsoft if you read this - add an option to the RTM version of Windows 7 to auto-open All Programs when the Start Menu is opened!!! Especially because if the Privacy options are unchecked, that area of the Start Menu is ALWAYS blank... Mike Frett 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillz Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 With the removal of the classic Start menu, I imagine that Windows 8 (or w/e the next major release of Windows is called) will do away with the Windows Classic theme, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeChipshop Member Posted January 7, 2009 Member Share Posted January 7, 2009 We can only hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHW Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 No techies just hit WinKey+R and type in the executable filename. There is no point in Instant Search for the Start Menu, when the filename is 8 characters (or less) long... Techies should be able to learn that pressing Winkey and the typing in the executable file name does the exact same thing without the +R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 7, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 7, 2009 We can only hope Yes. We can only hope :) Unfortunately I doubt they will be able to with Windows 7's successor though due to compatibility problems :( Maybe, like somebody else suggested - leave it in Windows but disable the option for end users ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeChipshop Member Posted January 7, 2009 Member Share Posted January 7, 2009 ...and then you can garunte that someone somewhere will come up with a buggy hack to enable it.... god knows why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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