Study finds Death link to too much red meat

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

personally i prefer turkey meat over any other kind and my health is crap so i do not think that the meat had anything to do with it.

[NeoXY]

You make it sound like we are under a contract, like its some sort of crusade. Why do you care what others eat? Let them do what they please, if they are poisoning themselves then great.

But he's one of those vegetarians....

Although I must say seeing his arguments are pretty amusing.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

I am a herbivore, not an omnivore.

You choose to eat like a herbivore, but, genetically speaking, you are an omnivore. You possess the ability to properly digest meat and extract nutrients from it, therefore are not a herbivore by anything other than choice.

[Dischordiant]

I will shed a single tear for this thread, as I grill ribeyes this evening.

One tear.

[jonhapimp]

just stop we all you know you hate meat, this has been well known for a while

:shiftyninja:

[petrossa]

Why is this being ignored?

here is a picture of boobs to get your attention...

:D Funny, you are in Marketing?

nice link for foodfreaks:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/gca?gca=298%2...&submit.y=5

proves fat people live longer, are less disease prone and when sick recover more quickly. That actually being 10 kg underweight is more dangerous then being 70 kg overweight.

Maybe they should've put some boobs on that one too.....

Ahh, the powers of selective journalism....

[+Xinok Subscriber²]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_eating_pyramid

The healthy eating pyramid is a nutrition guide developed by the Harvard School of Public Health, suggesting how much of each food category one should eat each day. The healthy eating pyramid is intended to provide a better eating guide than the widespread food guide pyramid created by the USDA.

The new pyramid aims to include the most current research in dietary health not present in the USDA's 1992 guide. The original USDA pyramid has been criticized for not differentiating between refined grains and whole grains, between saturated fats and unsaturated fats, and for not putting enough emphasis on exercise and weight control. It also had been developed by the Department of Agriculture, not the Department of Health and Human Services, so has been alleged to be influenced by lobbyists working for the agriculture, meat and dairy industries. This accusation is somewhat substantiated by the often larger portions in USDA recommendations relative to World Health Organization and NHS recommendations.

* Daily exercise and weight control

* At most meals, whole grain foods including oatmeal, whole-wheat bread, and brown rice;1 piece or 4 oz.

* Plant oils, including olive oil, canola oil, soybean oil, corn oil, and sunflower seed oil; 2 oz. per day

* Vegetables, in abundance 3 or more each day. Each serv. 6 oz.

* 2-3 servings of fruits; Ea. serv. = 1 piece of fruit or 4 oz.

* 1-3 servings of nuts, or legumes; Ea. serv. = 2 oz.

* 1-2 servings of dairy or calcium supplement; Ea serv. = 8 oz. non fat or 4 oz. of whole.

* 1-2 servings of poultry, fish, or eggs; Ea. serv = 4 oz or 1 egg.

* Sparing use of white rice, white bread, potatoes, pasta and sweets;

* Sparing use of red meat and butter.

[Anarcho-Capitalist]

:shiftyninja:

lol why are you quoting yourself?

[bob21]

That completly dismantles his argument by ignoring it , congrats </sarcasam>

[Anarcho-Capitalist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_eating_pyramid

The reason why you don't see this adopted nationwide is because this USDA is owned by the bread, dairy and meat company lobbyists.

[bob21]

Bwaha oh lord the "Big MultiNational Corporation defence" its been a while since i heard that one , Listen that only works for people who are ****ing retarted for sane people like myself it just sets the bull**** detector off .

And yeah its everywhere in europe our doctor has one .

[Anarcho-Capitalist]

Bwaha oh lord the "Big MultiNational Corporation defence" its been a while since i heard that one , Listen that only works for people who are ****ing retarted for sane people like myself it just sets the bull**** detector off .

And yeah its everywhere in europe our doctor has one .

Ok then please explain why the USDA hasn't adopted a pyramid just like the Harvard healthy eating one.

[bob21]

Whats the difference meat eggs bread milk its hardly vegan friendly , It completly demolishes your "go back to the stone age or die" argument eitherway .

Edited March 26, 2009 by bob21

[epple]

Hahahah, this is comedy gold.

It's like seeing an ignorant religious person trying to argue for the existence of God while trying to disprove the Theory of Evolution at the same time, but ignoring arguments from the other side and saying they're just wrong. :D

This will lead nowhere, might as well lock the thread. :p

[Maid of Orleans]

:rofl: @ most of those pro raw food vegan "studies".

one says "30 participants", another says "18 people who had been following strict raw food diets", and another says "evaluated in 21 sedentary subjects", yada yada yada.

look at how laughably small those sample sizes are, especially the one on fibromyalgia, and they didn't even use a control!!!! :wacko: good heavens, it's so typical this could pass for a parody. tiny sample size when you need hundreds. no controls or the control groups aren't blinded, and so on.

guide to studies. please read...

http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=146

http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=147

http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=148

Hahahah, this is comedy gold.

It's like seeing an ignorant religious person trying to argue for the existence of God while trying to disprove the Theory of Evolution at the same time, but ignoring arguments from the other side and saying they're just wrong. :D

This will lead nowhere, might as well lock the thread. :p

:D ;)

unchecked cognitive biases + tin foil hat wearing ideologue = lulztown. keep the thread open for the good of the lulz.

[bob21]

Defo, I think its hilarious how these ideological vegans claim to value the live of animals so much yet turn on their own kind in a heard beat and call for the murder of those involved in animal based research.

Yet even with that ideology do they refuse products produced by animal based research? Of course not, they stick their fingers in their ears and say la la la la lah I am not a hypocrite 50 Prozac please and a side order of Xanax .

Edited March 26, 2009 by bob21

[Anarcho-Capitalist]

Whats the difference meat eggs bread milk its hardly vegan friendly , It completly demolishes your "go back to the stone age or die" argument eitherway .

So you're just going to ignore the question, huh? Way to go.

[Dischordiant]

My steaks were great last night, in case anyone was wondering. (Y)

[Aaron Veteran]

I ahve heard this is true. Some experts say it is stuck to walls of your colon like spackle or paste....

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

You sure can maintain that, but you're simply maintaining a bare assertion. Bare assertions are meaningless

So you went from one strawman stereotype to another, "I can go ahead and start eating meat everyday like I used to, but being a man sitting in a hospital in my 60's because of a heart attack that almost cost me my life isn't worth it."

Provide some solid scientific evidence from various legitimate studies to support your claims that:

.1) A raw foodist diet is the healthiest

.2) that it isn't harmful

.3) It is what's "intended"

The evidence should be from credible sources. By credible sources I mean do not cite junk-science like naturopathy/natural hygiene, chiropractic (eg. the charlatan Douglas Graham), or anything with a political/ideological agenda. Don't bother citing Herbert Shelton either as his work pertaining to raw food diets has long since been debunked. Finally, don't bother citing anecotes ("I feel healthier"), as anecdotes prove nothing empirically.

"Is there anecdotal evidence that unconventional therapies sometimes yield positive outcomes? Yes. There's also anecdotal evidence that athletes who refuse to shave during winning streaks sometimes bring home championships." -Steve Salerno

I have had discussions with raw foodist vegans before and the evidence to support the claims are as dubious as the claim that "we aren't intended to eat meat."

Dentation is not the only factor which differentiates omnivores from herbivores. The biochemistry of herbivore/frugivore digestion is quite different than the biochemistry of human (omnivorous) digestion. The former do not not have the same capacity to produce the enzymes omnivores do for digesting meat. Human beings show all the hallmarks of omnivores: dentation, jaw structure, digestion, long intestines, etc.

There may be sound ethical reasons to avoid eating meat, but arguing that it is healthier than having a balanced diet (which includes meat) will have to be supported by evidence. Strict raw food diets have been studied scientifically and the evidence doesn't correspond with your claims.

Here's just few:

Consequences of a long-term raw food diet on body weight and menstruation

About 30% of the women under 45 years of age had partial to complete amenorrhea; subjects eating high amounts of raw food (> 90%) were affected more frequently than moderate raw food dieters . . . The consumption of a raw food diet is associated with a high loss of body weight. Since many raw food dieters exhibited underweight and amenorrhea, a very strict raw food diet cannot be recommended on a long-term basis.

In summary, a third of women on who were studied and on a long-term strict raw food vegan diet stop menstruating.

Dental erosions in subjects living on a raw food diet

Raw food diet bears an increased risk of dental erosion compared to conventional nutrition

Long-Term Consumption of a Raw Food Diet Is Associated with Favorable Serum LDL Cholesterol and Triglycerides but Also with Elevated Plasma Homocysteine and Low Serum HDL Cholesterol in Humans

High consumption of vegetables and fruits is associated with reduced risk for cardiovascular disease. However, little information is available about diets based predominantly on consumption of fruits and their health consequences. We investigated the effects of an extremely high dietary intake of raw vegetables and fruits (70?100% raw food) on serum lipids and plasma vitamin B-12, folate, and total homocysteine (tHcy) . . . Of raw food consumers, 38% were vitamin B-12 deficient, whereas 12% had an increased mean corpuscular volume (MCV). Plasma tHcy concentrations were correlated with plasma vitamin B-12 concentrations (r = ?0.450, P < 0.001), but not with plasma folate. Plasma tHcy and MCV concentrations were higher in those in the lowest quintile of consumption of food of animal origin (Ptrend < 0.00[bThis study indicates that consumption of a strict raw food diet lowers plasma total cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations, but also lowers serum HDL cholesterol and increases tHcy concentrations due to vitamin B-12 deficiency[/b]Human Diet: Its Origin and Evolution, Peter Ungar (Associate Professor of Anthropology, University of Arkansas), Mark Teaford (Dept. of Cell Biology and Anatomy, The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine), April 2002

An increasing proportion of meat in the diet would obviously have provided more animal protein, a factor perhaps related to the stature increase which appears to have accompanied the transition from Australopithecines through Homo habilis to H. erectus, (McHenry, 1992) but greater availability of animal fat was probably a more important dietary alteration. Even crude Oldowan stone tools would have allowed early humans access to brain and marrow from a broad range of animals obtained by scavenging or hunting - including some species larger than those from which chimpanzee hunters preferentially extract brain tissue and marrow fat. These and other carcass fats were probably prized by the early hominids as they are by recently-observed modern human hunter-gatherers. (Steffanson, 196Nutritional Importance of Animal Source Foods

Animal source foods can provide a variety of micronutrients that are difficult to obtain in adequate quantities from plant source foods aloComparative Biochemistry and Physiology - Part A: Molecular & Integrative Physiology : Cooking as a biological trait

No human foragers have been recorded as living without cooking, and people who choose a 'raw-foodist' life-style experience low energy and impaired reproductive function. This suggests that cooking may be obligatory for humans. The possibility that cooking is obligatory is supported by calculations suggesting that a diet of raw food could not supply sufficient calories for a normal hunter?gatherer lifestyle ... this means that human biology must have adapted to the ingestion of cooked food (i.e. food that is tender and low in fiber) in ways that no longer allow efficient processing of raw foLong-Term Consumption of a Raw Food Diet Is Associated with Favorable Serum LDL Cholesterol and Triglycerides but Also with Elevated Plasma Homocysteine and Low Serum HDL Cholesterol in Humansl]

[if one requires vitamin supplements, that undermines the entire "natural" and "what is intended" premise]

/thread

[bob21]

So you're just going to ignore the question, huh? Way to go.

No im not it wouldnt be the first time a university study diasgrees with a government one . I just think the differences between the two arnt worth fighting over .

[Anarcho-Capitalist]

No im not it wouldnt be the first time a university study diasgrees with a government one . I just think the differences between the two arnt worth fighting over .

It's not a fight, I'm just asking you: why doesn't the government adopt the clearly superior Harvard health pyramid guidelines? Tell me what your gut tells you.

[bob21]

Becaus It’s not "clearly superior" the only difference between the two is the Harvard pyramid includes Alcohol, Supplements and Calcium.

My gut feeling? I don’t think any government would encourage the use of alcohol in a healthy eating pyramid.

[ironsight2000]

alot of my friends are going back to meat as vegan is too expensive with the economy in the shiter