My first trial with Ubuntu 9.04

[The2]

Yeh, but that's no different than having to get the .exe file for windows somewhere. The2 seems to think is is easier for windows when it is essentially the same processes involved.

Don't get me wrong - I know a lot about linux, and use it on atleast 100 clients. But I'm just pointing out what can be and it is a problem for an average user without internet (yes, there are places where internet connection is not important)

[DomZ]

I edited my post up there if you didnt see it ^. Either way the reviewer seemed to have a bias, but for end users who haven't used linux before they will be expecting it to work similar to windows so it's no fault of his own.

Ubuntu should have a welcome page/tutorial pop up after first install showing the basics like installing packages, installing flash/codecs and getting help from ubuntu wiki/forums. There's a little help buttom on the taskbar but I have never clicked it, and it doesn't seem visibile enough for new users imo.

[rob.derosa]

who doesn't have internet :p

[The_Observer]

But you had to get the .deb file from somewhere to get it on the stick, right (unless a buudy of yours had it on a computer somewhere.....) ?

Buddy singal file will not do the job. You have to download vlc with all its dependencies. Here is the list of all the files you need to get vlc working.

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo....12-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...1.5-3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0-0.2_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...7-3.1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0.7-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...1b-10_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...8.1-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0.7-7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...uild1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...4.1-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.6-3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo....11-4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...4-1.4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.23-1_all.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.23-1_all.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

now thats not easy thing to have to do, they need to format a type of exe for ubuntu with all dependencies in it, and then when you install it should see what dependencies you need and install. In the end you need internet to run ubuntu.

[-KJ]

Very true. However, it would have been much easier if a tour guide or a transition guide would have been provided in first boot up of Ubuntu. :p

Very true, this coming from someone who has always used Windows.

When I played with Ubuntu 2 to 3 years ago, I was pretty helpless. The interface was familiar, but the installation process was different, and that was the first bump on the log I had to learn to sand out. I never used the cli in Windows for anything -- I've been born (spoiled?) into the window interface... my first OS was Windows ME.

So I didn't feel really comfortable entering commands into the cli... I didn't know what I was typing in but I followed the site instructions and got through with that. I didn't know about Synaptic Package Manager, and wouldn't have opened it even if it sat in front of me on my desktop. Perhaps if it were named Synaptic Program Installer (however incorrect it may be), I might have opened it.

Anyway, if Ubuntu wants to extend to the "casual" crowd (the surfers/music listeners/movie watchers) and keep them, they will have to have some kind of guide or intro to make the transition smoother.

Because us Windows (and Mac OS) users are used to having things play out of the box and clicking the download button and having a step-by-step install prompt.

[Silencer]

I edited my post up there if you didnt see it ^. Either way the reviewer seemed to have a bias, but for end users who haven't used linux before they will be expecting it to work similar to windows so it's no fault of his own.

I actually always wanted to use Ubuntu as I heard a lot of positive comments on it. I even remember ordering a couple of Ubuntu CDs when it first came out a few years ago, sometime in 2005. However, I was let down when I installed it yesterday.

Ubuntu should have a welcome page/tutorial pop up after first install showing the basics like installing packages, installing flash/codecs and getting help from ubuntu wiki/forums. There's a little help buttom on the taskbar but I have never clicked it, and it doesn't seem visibile enough for new users imo.

I didn't even notice the small little help button. :o

[DomZ]

Yeh VLC was a bad example for me and my "put it on a stick" argument :D Mainly because all of their own libraries for codecs, rather than using xine or whatever.

But for something like Deluge where the main dependacies are python/pygtk/pyglade/whatever, and all of these are installed by default in ubuntu, you could just grab the deb from http://www.getdeb.net/release/4144 and put it on a stick.

[Silencer]

Buddy singal file will not do the job. You have to download vlc with all its dependencies. Here is the list of all the files you need to get vlc working.

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo....12-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...1.5-3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0-0.2_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...7-3.1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0.7-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...1b-10_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...8.1-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...0.7-7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...uild1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...4.1-1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu7_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.6-3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo....11-4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu1_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...4-1.4_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.23-1_all.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...2.23-1_all.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/poo...untu3_i386.deb

now thats not easy thing to have to do, they need to format a type of exe for ubuntu with all dependencies in it, and then when you install it should see what dependencies you need and install. In the end you need internet to run ubuntu.

Thats a pretty long list. Try asking grandma or grand dad in installing those debs. They'll probably grumble.

Because us Windows (and Mac OS) users are used to having things play out of the box and clicking the download button and having a step-by-step install prompt.

I totally agree with you on this point. ;) We, Windows and Mac users, may be spoiled with the double click option. However, I know Ubuntu is trying to come into the scene with the idea of making computer tasks easy. I haven't seen it especially with my ordeals.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Thats a pretty long list. Try asking grandma or grand dad in installing those debs. They'll probably grumble.

Synaptic (or Apt) does a great job of gathering all of the dependencies when you install a program. You do not have to download them and install them one-by-one. But, instead of me trying to convince the skeptics about its ease in use, I suggest that they should just try it.

Very true that Linux is not Windows, but it is not hard to use either (IMO). My experience with these kinds of threads is that you can't change people's opinions about an operating system because everyone has their own experiences. That being said, whatever OS people use and feel comfortable with should be what they use, without ridicule from others. Computing is a big world and everyone can use whatever suits them the best.

[Silencer]

Synaptic (or Apt) does a great job of gathering all of the dependencies when you install a program. You do not have to download them and install them one-by-one. But, instead of me trying to convince the skeptics about its ease in use, I suggest that they should just try it.

Very true that Linux is not Windows, but it is not hard to use either (IMO).

I used Synaptic. Yes, it's pretty straight forward. On the other hand, what happens if Grandma doesn't know the title of a particular program but knows that she wants to use it to play videos. She'll have to do a search on the internet and look for "Video Player" and she'll probably will click on the first result which is "VideoLan". She'll navigate to the site looking for download and will be presented with the kubuntu page explaining how to install it via the command line instead of having an executable file which will do everything for you. She'll be burdened. While in Windows it's just one click on the VideoLan website and boom you got the setup file installing VideoLan for you. ;)

[DomZ]

She should search synaptic for "play video" and chose one of the many programs that come up ;)

[Silencer]

She should search synaptic for "play video" and chose one of the many programs that come up ;)

Now, I didn't know that ;) Thanks for pointing that out. What happens if she wants to install the same program on her laptop and she doesn't have wifi nor a router.

[DomZ]

It's been pointed out that it's not easy to put programs on without internet access. But Ubuntu covers most bases with the basic install (despite licensing issues with codecs which has already been mentioned). We're just repeating ourselves now though.

[hdood]

Why is it expected everything is to be like windows?

I think the issue is that Ubuntu is pushed as a simple to use Windows replacement, instead of emphasizing that Linux is in fact a substantially different operating system with very different ways of doing things and that there is a learning curve for Windows users.

[Titoist]

While I like Ubuntu and still use it occasionally, I agree with the user friendlyness that people are ranting about.

WLMessenger on Windows install = 5min

Pidgin update on Ubuntu = 40min (including the readings, the downloads, the code typing, etc)

Kubuntu update manager also sucks. First I gotta fetch the updates, then go to another tab to show the updates, then to close and open the update manager just to show the updates and then click "update". For a first time user this can be very confusing. Also there are NO wizards in Kubuntu. Ubuntu (Linux in general) is not very user friendly.

[CPressland]

I always use the command line system to install an application in Ubuntu, it's a lot easier than Windows and all you need to know is the name of the package.

On a clean install just do the following

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install vlc
sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
sudo apt-get install upgrade

Badabing badaboom! Thats everything I can think of off the top of my head that a standard user would need.

WLMessenger on Windows install = 5min

Pidgin update on Ubuntu = 40min (including the readings, the downloads, the code typing, etc)

apt-get upgrade

does all that automatically, total upgrade time, 11 seconds. Windows Live Messenger just got pwned.

[ToneKnee]

Linux has a long way to go yet, I do agree with a lot of the arguments in this thread as well, and I'm a user who has a bit of general knowledge of Linux as well.

[Titoist]

apt-get upgrade

does all that automatically, total upgrade time, 11 seconds. Windows Live Messenger just got pwned.

Sure you can do that, but Pidgin still won't work if you dont install the following as well. While many of these features you actually don't need, I still couldnt get the damn thing to run without installing them all. The update will fail itself if you dont list which ones to avoid. If update fails on the ones you want, you have to go back and install it and then redo the update process all over again.

Plugins needed for Pidgin

1.Album

2.Auto Accept

3.Auto-rejoin

4.Auto Reply

5.awaynotify

6.Bash.org

7.Buddy Icon Tools

8.Buddy List Options

9.Buddy Note

10.buddytime

11.chronic

12.convcolors

13.Dice

14.DiffTopic

15.Magic 8 Ball

16.Flip

17.gRIM

18.Group Message

19.Hide Conversation

20.IRC Helper

21.Irssi Features

22.Last Seen

23.List Handler

24.Marker Line

25.My Status Box

26.napster

27.New Line

28.Nick Said

29.Offline Message

30.Old Logger

31.Plonkers

32.Schedule

33.Separate and Tab

34.Show Offline

35.Sim Fix

36.Slash Exec

37.SSL Info

38.Stocker

39.Switch Spell

40.Talk Filters

41.XMMS Remote

42.XChat-Chats

[Zapadlo]

Now, I didn't know that ;) Thanks for pointing that out. What happens if she wants to install the same program on her laptop and she doesn't have wifi nor a router.

Poor argument. You are describing a situation when a granny, with no internet, what does she need PC for then, coding? Wants to install a video program, so she just pops over to a neighbouring granny and downloads a video player, on a usb stick, then installs that on her PC? Honestly, how likely is that situation. Ok, I will admit, here Windows surpasses Linux. /thumbs up

While I like Ubuntu and still use it occasionally, I agree with the user friendlyness that people are ranting about.

WLMessenger on Windows install = 5min

Pidgin update on Ubuntu = 40min (including the readings, the downloads, the code typing, etc)

Kubuntu update manager also sucks. First I gotta fetch the updates, then go to another tab to show the updates, then to close and open the update manager just to show the updates and then click "update". For a first time user this can be very confusing. Also there are NO wizards in Kubuntu. Ubuntu (Linux in general) is not very user friendly.

I agree its different, I can even admit that its less average user friendly, even though that wasn't a case with me, but keep arguments reasonable.

Pidgin comes pre-installed, what do you need to update? - 0 minutes.

Update *buntu? :

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

Wait for... 5, may be 10 minutes, how long does Vista take to fully update from a fresh install, how may times you have to restart the computer before it fully updates?

You don't even need wizards, type 4 words and sit-back.

[undu]

How are you installing pidgin? It came included in the DVD when I installed ubuntu, and of course I didn't have to install plugins :/

[i_was_here]

I used Synaptic. Yes, it's pretty straight forward. On the other hand, what happens if Grandma doesn't know the title of a particular program but knows that she wants to use it to play videos.

Instead of Synaptic, you could try gnome-app-install. Just go to Application menu > Add/Remove...

From there you can find programs by searching or just clicking the categories on the left hand side.

[ToneKnee]

Poor argument. You are describing a situation when a granny, with no internet, what does she need PC for then, coding? Wants to install a video program, so she just pops over to a neighbouring granny and downloads a video player, on a usb stick, then installs that on her PC? Honestly, how likely is that situation. Ok, I will admit, here Windows surpasses Linux. /thumbs up

I agree its different, I can even admit that its less average user friendly, even though that wasn't a case with me, but keep arguments reasonable.

Pidgin comes pre-installed, what do you need to update? - 0 minutes.

Update *buntu? :

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

Wait for... 5, may be 10 minutes, how long does Vista take to fully update from a fresh install, how may times you have to restart the computer before it fully updates?

You don't even need wizards, type 4 words and sit-back.

Sorry, but that's bs, you still need to restart Linux whenever there is a kernel security update, or when new graphics card drivers are installed. While Windows does need a reboot with certain stuff, drivers are quite seamless and don't need to restart the computer to get them to work.

[Xerxes]

I don't have much trouble at all getting around Ubuntu (and I know next to nothing about Linux). Ubuntu is easily the friendliest version of Linux I've used and the Wubi installer is a god send for people like me who just want to install it to explore but don't want to mess with partitioning. Ubuntu 9.04 runs great on my laptop, had a little trouble getting the video card to work and my internal wireless card won't play ball but other then that, all is good (Y) Installing/removing apps in Ubuntu is a breeze and I find it much easier then Windows (when things go well, not so easy when things go wrong!) and I find it an overall pleasant experience :) However, the experience is all down to personal opinion on things and despite the overall positive experience I've had with Ubuntu, I'm happy with Windows and will remain a Windows user as I'm more interested in Linux from a curiosity level.

[starburst1980]

Using Ubuntu's package manager eliminates all of the "copy / pasting" for the most part. Synaptic (GUI front-end of Apt) is so simple to use, the old CLI (command line interface) argument has really become obsolete.

+1

Id wish there was something like that for Windows.

[Silencer]

Poor argument. You are describing a situation when a granny, with no internet, what does she need PC for then, coding? Wants to install a video program, so she just pops over to a neighbouring granny and downloads a video player, on a usb stick, then installs that on her PC? Honestly, how likely is that situation. Ok, I will admit, here Windows surpasses Linux. /thumbs up

You never know. There's bound to be a granny like that out there, somewhere :p haha