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Opera: Microsoft's 'minor tweak' of Windows 7 not enough


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#91 vetAntaris

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:34

Then why is it that IE comes first?


They're hardly gonna put a competiting product first are they :p


#92 X82

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:34

I don't see any point to Operas bitching. I assume they are trying to target people who buy computers for the first time. Give them a choice on what browser to install etc, fine. But shouldn't the makers of the PC do that? After all, if your savvy enough to go out and Buy windows 7 and install it, your savvy enough to go on the internet and download opera yourself? It's not hard for Christ sake.

Giving this option for first time buyers is only going to confuse them further.

And one final thing, although I know what I am about to say is outrageous and incorrect, but I just can't help but feel that all this moaning about MS from Opera is disrespectful. After all, if it wasn't for Windows, Opera wouldn't exist, or at least anywhere near the level it does now. I've also never understood all this monopoly BS. Microsoft make the damn OS and yet are told what they can and can't put on it.

Perhaps Opera and indeed Mozilla should try advertising more to tempt people to download their browser rather than bundling it with Windows.

illogical rant over.

#93 Mike

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:35

I would have thought the success of Firefox and even Chrome is proof that Microsoft's Browser and bundeling is not the reason for Opera's failure.


How many average Joes know of Firefox/Chrome without being told out it by the local tech kid? The average Joe thinks that IE is the internet (they most likely also think the web = the internet too).

Look around the net and you see people saying they've "converted" their family/friends from IE to Firefox, if left to their own choice, what would the family/friends have selected? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people using Firefox who thought they were still using IE.

#94 statm1

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:39

I dont know about you Mike but having your browser downloaded a billion times kinda tells me that your a success despite non-tech users not knowing the difference.

#95 zeke009

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:43

i really hope this doesnt happen
if windows is shipped with a third party browser, people will hold MS responsible for its failures
and opera has tons of rendering issues

and then everyone browser on the planets gonna want into that ballot screen, so theyd have to choose one of the significant browsers, IE chrome/opera/IE?



so how about a Ballot Screen with Internet Explorer, Fire Fox, Safari & Chrome.....those are the major browsers aren't they??

EU should make a companion CD or thumb drive and they are the ones who maintain and update it. It should not be Microsoft's task to manage, then the EU can monitor or track how many users actually load Opera. I bet it'll be less than 10% of the total installs when compared to FF and IE.

The makers of browsers that are built on IE need to speak to the EU and tell them if Opera has it's way they are going to adversely affect them by removing the underlying engine used by Windows.

#96 Lechio

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:45

(...)
- Who is responsible if a browser like Chrome messes up the OS?

The same that are responsible now. You install after accepting the license.

Here is an alternative proposal. Put all the popular browsers onto Windows Update (by the website records of browser usage), including IE8, and give the user a chance to install the latest version from that when first connecting to the internet. Companies would have to provide updates, hotfixes and patches through Windows Update, and that way the list is always upto date, people can hide a browser like they can any other update so it wont pop up, and Microsoft could ensure the browsers meet basic reliablity standards, so it wont cause a machine to crash etc.

Best solution. (Y)
Already discussed here: http://www.neowin.ne...howtopic=789374

#97 mdtaUK

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:46

How many average Joes know of Firefox/Chrome without being told out it by the local tech kid? The average Joe thinks that IE is the internet (they most likely also think the web = the internet too).


This is a failure on mozilla's part to advertise their OS. Why not run a wordwide tv advert or poster campaign saying, visit blah blah.com and download the Firefox browser for free...

#98 wv@gt

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:48

As others have said, if Microsoft provides a ballot screen, then they become responsible for a third party browser failing.
If Opera insists on whining like this, they should be going to the OEMs to make the ballot screen. OEMs can do this a lot easier, however this means just more crap ware being installed.

I wish Opera would just grow up, how about they make the Opera OS and see what happens

#99 mdtaUK

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:49

EU should make a companion CD or thumb drive and they are the ones who maintain and update it. It should not be Microsoft's task to manage, then the EU can monitor or track how many users actually load Opera. I bet it'll be less than 10% of the total installs when compared to FF and IE.

The makers of browsers that are built on IE need to speak to the EU and tell them if Opera has it's way they are going to adversely affect them by removing the underlying engine used by Windows.


Yes if the EU want to 'help consumers' in europe, they should use the tax payers money to produce a disc with all the browsers available and put them in stores like PC World, or post them to the public, its not Microsoft's job to do this!

#100 coresx

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:50

Maybe Opera should change their name. I think everyone can agree, it's a decent browser but maybe the name one thing holding it back.

#101 Mike

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:53

This is a failure on mozilla's part to advertise their OS. Why not run a wordwide tv advert or poster campaign saying, visit blah blah.com and download the Firefox browser for free...


You mean browser ;)

It has nothing to do with mozilla that the average Joe associates the internet with IE, it's because it was given to them by MS as the only option.

As others have said, if Microsoft provides a ballot screen, then they become responsible for a third party browser failing.
If Opera insists on whining like this, they should be going to the OEMs to make the ballot screen. OEMs can do this a lot easier, however this means just more crap ware being installed.


If MS are to do anything, they should do a similar thing to the search engines in IE. Give a list of browsers and a link to the site for that browser with a note to direct any support to that site. MS don't need to include the setup files as that would be pointless due to the browsers updating frequently.

#102 Lannister

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 13:00

How many average Joes know of Firefox/Chrome without being told out it by the local tech kid? The average Joe thinks that IE is the internet (they most likely also think the web = the internet too).


Enough average Joe's know to make Firefox a significant player in the browser market, with a rising userbase every day. If it's good people hear about it and want to use it: word of mouth has always been the best advertising method.

Look around the net and you see people saying they've "converted" their family/friends from IE to Firefox, if left to their own choice, what would the family/friends have selected? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people using Firefox who thought they were still using IE.


So their friends presented them with an alternative choice? That's great, but it shouldn't be Microsofts job to do that.

It's a slippery slope, first it was Media Player, now Internet Explorer, what next, Wordpad, Notepad, Paint the TCP/IP stack?

#103 -T-

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 13:09

I used to use Opera, but all this whining and bitching really puts me off the browser. People do have a choice, and Opera is not it, when will they realise they can't force it down our throats. I do like their browser, some of their features I miss in firefox, but thats why there are extensions to enable most of them. Yet to find a "fit to page width" extension though.

#104 wv@gt

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 13:18

If MS are to do anything, they should do a similar thing to the search engines in IE. Give a list of browsers and a link to the site for that browser with a note to direct any support to that site. MS don't need to include the setup files as that would be pointless due to the browsers updating frequently.


The issue with that is that a browser would still need to already be installed and obviously thats not going to happen

There is no easy win for Microsoft, the EU and Opera

Microsoft is not going to ever include setup files for a competitor (unless they buy them out) which makes a ballot screen hard to do.

Providing links to download other browsers, requires IE to be installed, not a solution for Opera.

The only real solution I see to end all of this, is the OEM providers

Edited by gamestargrinder, 18 July 2009 - 13:27.


#105 Athernar

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 13:39

Any form of ballot screen/user choice will simply not work, in a market where the majority of users think google.com is a browser, they're just going to go for what is familiar. Offer them a screen with a group of enlarged icons of the browsers, they're going to click the "Internet" icon. Offer them a textual list, do you think they're going to go for the option named INTERNET explorer or Firefox/Chrome?

For a market that is supposedly surpressed by the product with the largest share, Firefox has been making some damn good progress. It's also relevant to mention that IE's default homepage is MSN.com/Bing, yet Google have the dominant share of the search market. So using a search-revenue arguement is useless.