Rep Changes

[Fred Derf Veteran]

When you go into a thread and post a respectable post you still might get a negative rep which is B.S.Just because you don't agree doesn't make it wrong. If the majority see one thing one way and you don't you'll likely get a negative point rather than no points which is in IMO b.s.

Only staff and MVCs can negative vote while everyone can positive vote. We aren't exactly opening the floodgates here. There aren't that many people with the power and it is limited to people that have proven themselves to be helpful to the community.

[tiagosilva29]

Only staff and MVCs can negative vote while everyone can positive vote. We aren't exactly opening the floodgates here. There aren't that many people with the power and it is limited to people that have proven themselves to be helpful to the community.

I don't like some of your MVCs (better: some don't like me and excelled at being incompetent moderators) and that means that I will probably get negative points if I (or anyone in this set) cross with them.

[Steven P. Administrators]

I don't like some of your MVCs (better: some don't like me and excelled at being incompetent moderators) and that means that I will probably get negative points if I (or anyone in this set) cross with them.

Well, you'll have to trust the fact that staff, as well as MVC's have been told to use the system only when it applies to the following scenarios: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/919032-omg-i-got-a-negative-vote-what-for/

Not sure what else I can say other than no-one is perfect!

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I don't like some of your MVCs (better: some don't like me and excelled at being incompetent moderators) and that means that I will probably get negative points if I (or anyone in this set) cross with them.

Want a tinfoil hat? Only ?20 a piece.

Seriously, I don't think staff or MVC are now going to go ahead and downvote you whenever they disagree with any of your posts. There have to be rules for those eligible to downvote determining when it is appropriate and when not in place surely.

[tiagosilva29]

There have to be rules for those eligible to downvote determining when it is appropriate and when not in place surely.

Sure, in the same way that there are rules to warn people. You may not see where I'm getting at, but some do.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Sure, in the same way that there are rules to warn people. You may not see where I'm getting at, but some do.

Having been on staff I know what you're getting at. Moderators are only human and have bad days as well - still, 99% of all issued warnings have been issued with good reason.

[Richard Hammond]

It has been enabled for Staff & MVC's only ;)

When a person is derailing a post or is being warned, staff will have the ability to negative vote the offending post.

This ensures (over time) that we don't have members on 80% warn with a load of positive rep points.

PS: We are going to trial it, and see how it goes too..

What does a warn level have to do with positive rep points, im on 80% warn so what you are saying is that even though one of my posts is worth upvoting i shouldnt have positive rep because of my past transgressions?

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I don't like some of your MVCs (better: some don't like me and excelled at being incompetent moderators) and that means that I will probably get negative points if I (or anyone in this set) cross with them.

If you suspect a staff member or MVC is abusing the system then let somebody in purple (or a Supervisor) know. However, I would ask you to wait until the problem actually occurs before we get ahead of ourselves.

[bangbang023 Veteran]

Sure, in the same way that there are rules to warn people. You may not see where I'm getting at, but some do.

Not to mention that all warnings are logged in the staff area and visible for all staff to see. You should see some the the debates that used to go on in there.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

What does a warn level have to do with positive rep points, im on 80% warn so what you are saying is that even though one of my posts is worth upvoting i shouldnt have positive rep because of my past transgressions?

No, we have noticed that some members are gaining rep points for edgy posts that are mildly insulting to less popular members or because they post very opinionated comments in polarized forums (RWI, GH). These may or may not apply to individual cases like yours but we have noticed it happening in general. If the current system encourages some sort of positive benefit from what we consider behavior that shouldn't be encouraged then there is a bit of a problem that we would like to fix. This is a small step in itself but some members do care about their reputation.

[TrueMonolith]

No, we have noticed that some members are gaining rep points for edgy posts that are mildly insulting to less popular members or because they post very opinionated comments in polarized forums (RWI, GH). These may or may not apply to individual cases like yours but we have noticed it happening in general. If the current system encourages some sort of positive benefit from what we consider behavior that shouldn't be encouraged then there is a bit of a problem that we would like to fix. This is a small step in itself but some members do care about their reputation.

Theres also a question of people who dont care but due to herd mentality are forced to when they get community reactions like "pfft, why should i listen to you, you have no rep points".

I dont regard this as a probability in the immediate future though.

[Steven P. Administrators]

At the end of the day, the troublemakers have got a head start on us. It's up to them for it to stay that way.

We aren't resetting rep or anything, because that would be unfair to people who have never been warned.

[Singh400]

Read the details, only Staff and MVC's have the ability to make use of this feature. So it doesn't need to be monitored, in theory.

L2 read ;)

Thanks for your very constructive posts(!) I can read thank you very much. I still stand by my point.

What if I disagree with a Staff or MVC? And they don't like that, they can simply vote me down. The system is open to abuse, doesn't matter who has access to it. I have been a reader of Neowin for years now (way before I signed up). I have witnessed many "in-groups" picking on certain individuals. In some cases, members of the Staff were also taking part.

[Razorwing]

It really doesn't matter to me. lol. It's just another thing I can work with.

edit: would it be possible if we can find out which posts are repped? A lot of us post a lot in one day and backtracking takes a while. :laugh:

[Darth Laidher]

Bringing more power to the man... Always tryin to keep a brotha down.

[Osiris]

This whole thing comes down to what you intend to do with the karma system. At the moment its still hidden in the profile, im not gonna go into someones profile to see their karma just to assess how I should value their post/contribution.

the thing I will agree with though is atm, 'karma' if thats what were calling it, can easily be manipulated, ie take a polar view in a contraversial thread = win. But atm it doesnt mean anything so who really cared?

[Prince Charming]

This sounds like a great idea. I've worked hard for my rep by contributing positive posts to the forum and community in general, and I'd like to think the new system will more clearly seperate those with a baselessly high reputation, and those who deserve it.

[Osiris]

This sounds like a great idea. I've worked hard for my rep by contributing positive posts to the forum and community in general, and I'd like to think the new system will more clearly seperate those with a baselessly high reputation, and those who deserve it.

Well ignoring the fact that x% of your posts are just because you advertise youre a female, you dont think the rep system at the moment is pointless? In what circumstances is it serving a value to you to increase it?

[markwolfe Veteran]

Well ignoring the fact that x% of your posts are just because you advertise youre a female, you dont think the rep system at the moment is pointless? In what circumstances is it serving a value to you to increase it?

I don't think I have ever paid attention to the "overall rep". I think this feature would be best useful when used to look at individual posts.

Heck, even the "stars" for the number of posts by a member has been hotly debated on Neowin as to whether they serve a greater purpose. They are just there. Just like this.

I don't see it being a big deal, especially seeing how the scope is so limited to MVCs and Staff only. (no Vets?)

[rajputwarrior]

meh, honestly i like the rep down points, cause honestly some people are just out there to flame. if this is a way to track things like that then good job neowin (Y)

[Osiris]

I don't think I have ever paid attention to the "overall rep". I think this feature would be best useful when used to look at individual posts.

Heck, even the "stars" for the number of posts by a member has been hotly debated on Neowin as to whether they serve a greater purpose. They are just there. Just like this.

I don't see it being a big deal, especially seeing how the scope is so limited to MVCs and Staff only. (no Vets?)

Unlike the stars though this could serve a purpose. there are a variety of boards out there that use karma as a yardstick....its pretty pointless to have and develop a system of karma if it serves no purpose. Therefore what is the intended use or future of this system as I suspect adding negatives will make users use positives more so whats the end result here

[Hani]

why do we have separate threads for this?

[Prince Charming]

Well ignoring the fact that x% of your posts are just because you advertise youre a female, you dont think the rep system at the moment is pointless? In what circumstances is it serving a value to you to increase it?

I genuinely don't think my gender has anything to do with rep. It's not advertised apart from on the profile, and most reps will be based on the merit of the individual post. I don't seriously believe members will view a post, check a member's gender in their profile, then choose to rep or not.

I don't think the rep system at the moment is pointless. It's not heavily used, and it's not visible as a aggregated number on the post or user display, but I do think it helps people looking through a thread for the more meaningful, and useful responses. It adds something of a warm fuzzy to the useful, contributing members, and it's always nice to know your contributions and efforts have been appreciated.

There's no value served to me in having my rep increased, equally, I'd put to you, there's no value to be served in being a useful, contributing member of this community? It's something I do because I'm a nice person, and I like the community. The rep goes hand in hand with that.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Unlike the stars though this could serve a purpose. there are a variety of boards out there that use karma as a yardstick....its pretty pointless to have and develop a system of karma if it serves no purpose. Therefore what is the intended use or future of this system as I suspect adding negatives will make users use positives more so whats the end result here

There are also people and forums that use post count as a yardstick. ;)

As far as purpose, the warn system is the method used by staff to determine member abilities and restrictions. Having two competing methods for staff to manage members would be counter-productive (was this action taken in the warn system, or the rep system?). This is a viewable individual post-merit system, not a staff tool for managing membership.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I genuinely don't think my gender has anything to do with rep. It's not advertised apart from on the profile, and most reps will be based on the merit of the individual post. I don't seriously believe members will view a post, check a member's gender in their profile, then choose to rep or not.

I don't think the rep system at the moment is pointless. It's not heavily used, and it's not visible as a aggregated number on the post or user display, but I do think it helps people looking through a thread for the more meaningful, and useful responses. It adds something of a warm fuzzy to the useful, contributing members, and it's always nice to know your contributions and efforts have been appreciated.

There's no value served to me in having my rep increased, equally, I'd put to you, there's no value to be served in being a useful, contributing member of this community? It's something I do because I'm a nice person, and I like the community. The rep goes hand in hand with that.

If I could I'd downvote you for subtle yet obvious trolling.