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Bioshock Infinite

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#46 George P

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:08

Where do they say it's the same universe as the first Bioshock? I can't seem to find that anywhere.

Every source I have read says this game has nothing to do with the first 2 Bioshock games



It's got nothing to do with the 2nd game period, that we can all be sure of, it wasn't made by them so they don't take it into account at all.

I'm simply saying that, and this was said in a video by the lead artist, that bioshock is bigger than just rapture. It can be set in the same universe but be a whole different city, like we see, yet doesn't have to be tied to the first game much outside from a simple passing notice in some small part(s) if you will.


#47 soniqstylz

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:43

Personally I hope they do tie it to Bioshock in some way, it doesn't have to be anything big, but enough to cement it in the same universe because there is no reason not to.
Rapture wasn't started till 1946, and Infinite takes place in 1912, so there is no reason to worry about having to sort anything together as it all happens before hand in Infinite.


Same here, and I'm sure it is, since it looks like there's plasmids and large hulking mechanical things.

I'm simply saying that, and this was said in a video by the lead artist, that bioshock is bigger than just rapture. It can be set in the same universe but be a whole different city, like we see, yet doesn't have to be tied to the first game much outside from a simple passing notice in some small part(s) if you will.



this.

Basically think Fallout series or Elder Scrolls series, or hell, GTA trilogy.

#48 shakey

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:44

I think it is a safe bet to say it is in the same universe. There was the fish tank with it in the intro, so there is some connection. Same with the era it seems to be set in, along with pretty much the same powers... I hope this game is good, but I really am hoping for more than just Bioshock in the air.

#49 OP Massiveterra

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:48

It's got nothing to do with the 2nd game period, that we can all be sure of, it wasn't made by them so they don't take it into account at all.

I'm simply saying that, and this was said in a video by the lead artist, that bioshock is bigger than just rapture. It can be set in the same universe but be a whole different city, like we see, yet doesn't have to be tied to the first game much outside from a simple passing notice in some small part(s) if you will.


"Bigger than Rapture" doesn't mean the same universe. What Levine meant by that were the literary themes and atmosphere

To be honest, they really shouldn't have called this game Bioshock at all. But the fact that the first Bioshock game sold 7 million units, I'm sure 2K were pressuring Irrational to keep the Bioshock name.

Just imagine the original conversation:

Levine: Hey! We've got an awesome concept for the new game!

2K: Is it a Bioshock game?

Levine: No, but I promise you it'll be better than Bioshock

2K: Hrm..., well, if you call it Bioshock we'll give you 5 years of funding for the project. If you don't call it Bioshock, we'll give you 2 years.

Levine: OK, we'll call it Bioshock.

#50 shakey

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:53

"Bigger than Rapture" doesn't mean the same universe. What Levine meant by that were the literary themes and atmosphere

To be honest, they really shouldn't have called this game Bioshock at all. But the fact that the first Bioshock game sold 7 million units, I'm sure 2K were pressuring Irrational to keep the Bioshock name.

Just imagine the original conversation:

Levine: Hey! We've got an awesome concept for the new game!

2K: Is it a Bioshock game?

Levine: No, but I promise you it'll be better than Bioshock

2K: Hrm..., well, if you call it Bioshock we'll give you 5 years of funding for the project. If you don't call it Bioshock, we'll give you 2 years.

Levine: OK, we'll call it Bioshock.



Ya, i see it the same way. It's like if they had mortal kombat and moved it to carebear land... well, actually, that might be pretty twisted and cool... and it could still be called mortal kombat, but they could add a "Kares" or something to the title.... sort of like this.... but you wouldn't have scorpion, you would have another character but with basically the same moves..... this analogy went all to crap and quick huh :p

#51 George P

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:26

"Bigger than Rapture" doesn't mean the same universe. What Levine meant by that were the literary themes and atmosphere

To be honest, they really shouldn't have called this game Bioshock at all. But the fact that the first Bioshock game sold 7 million units, I'm sure 2K were pressuring Irrational to keep the Bioshock name.

Just imagine the original conversation:

Levine: Hey! We've got an awesome concept for the new game!

2K: Is it a Bioshock game?

Levine: No, but I promise you it'll be better than Bioshock

2K: Hrm..., well, if you call it Bioshock we'll give you 5 years of funding for the project. If you don't call it Bioshock, we'll give you 2 years.

Levine: OK, we'll call it Bioshock.


If there is some sorta deeper connection to the first they won't tell you anyways, and they haven't really went deep into the story other than tell you the main characters name and what he's there for (to find the girl), that's it. But I don't see why, just because it's a different city and it's in the sky not underwater that it's also somehow not in the same bioshock universe. What does a change in local really do anyways other than give the devs the ability to try out new things? Why not call it bioshock when it's going to share the same gameplay elements, though this time they'll have more powers to play with and more ways to upgrade yourself it seems? The second you pick up some funky glowing syringe and inject yourself to get some power it's "bioshock" in my book, end of story.

#52 OP Massiveterra

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:31

If there is some sorta deeper connection to the first they won't tell you anyways, and they haven't really went deep into the story other than tell you the main characters name and what he's there for (to find the girl), that's it. But I don't see why, just because it's a different city and it's in the sky not underwater that it's also somehow not in the same bioshock universe. What does a change in local really do anyways other than give the devs the ability to try out new things? Why not call it bioshock when it's going to share the same gameplay elements, though this time they'll have more powers to play with and more ways to upgrade yourself it seems? The second you pick up some funky glowing syringe and inject yourself to get some power it's "bioshock" in my book, end of story.


But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3

#53 vetCorris

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:39

But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3


I haven't seen them say anywhere that it definitely isn't in the same universe, just that it has nothing to do with Bioshock in the sense of story and design, and different themes and a different atmosphere doesn't mean it can't hold the same name or be a spiritual sequel/prequel either.
Look at Shadow of the Colossus,
Spoiler


Though if they have confirmed it definitely isn't, a link to the source wouldn't go a miss.

#54 OP Massiveterra

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:56

I haven't seen them say anywhere that it definitely isn't in the same universe, just that it has nothing to do with Bioshock in the sense of story and design, and different themes and a different atmosphere doesn't mean it can't hold the same name or be a spiritual sequel/prequel either.
Look at Shadow of the Colossus,

Spoiler


Though if they have confirmed it definitely isn't, a link to the source wouldn't go a miss.


Ken Levine neither confirmed nor denied if the two Bioshocks are related in story, I guess that's the big internet debate, huh?

I'm on the side that it's not. And I'd rather have it if they weren't related. I would like to see Bioshock Infinite being a spiritual successor of Bioshock just like Bioshock was the spiritual successor of System Shock.

Following this story, it seems as if Irrational is going for something completely unique for us to experience as players, something more than what is expected from the Bioshock brand. That's why I'm assuming that adding the Bioshock name is more marketing than anything else.

Some quotes to add to the ambiguity:

"For an audience, I totally expect them to be like, 'What? I don't quite understand it,'" Levine said. "'It's a sequel but is it a sequel?' It's a meta-question. I'm comfortable with that." He won't say whether the game is connected to the storyline of those first two BioShocks. "I don't want to think about that," he said. "I don't think it's particularly constructive to have that conversation."


"It wasn't right after BioShock that we determined what we were going to do," Levine said. "We did sort of play around with a bunch of different things. One thing that was quickly apparent to us was that BioShock 2 wasn't the right product for us because of when they wanted it, because the company wanted it to be in Rapture, which makes sense, they wanted a follow-up. As our team, independent of BioShock 2, we had said what we wanted to say about that world as a studio."


"We were really looking to take on a project where we had a basic framework for some things — look, we had a framework for BioShock as well from a previous game we did [System Shock] — but also, and I've said this to other people, that there will be no sacred cows. Anything was up for grabs in terms of what would be there and what wouldn't be there."


Levine identifies two qualities that define BioShock Infinite as a BioShock game.

First: "It is set in a place that is both completely strange and fantastical but also strangely grounded and strangely familiar, believable," he said. For the first two BioShocks that location was Rapture a failed underwater city built with Objectivist principles and infused with a 1950s Art Deco design. Infinite's location is the floating city of Columbia, circa 1912, a city populated by proud Americans who view their country as a technologically great, ascendant Caucasian-led God-fearing society. "Fantastical" but "strangely familiar" indeed. Said Levine: "To do another game that felt like that but wasn't called BioShock game would seem dishonest."

Second defining BioShock quality: "The other thing is that when you deal with enemies you have a huge amount of expressability in how you approach a problem set. How I want to play the game is very different from how you're going to play the game." This other quality was a BioShock hallmark. Each enemy encounter in the first two games could be handled with a variety of methods: shooting, hacking, stealth, offensive plasmid (think: magic) powers, deputizing robots, confusing and converting enemies, springing traps, and so on.



#55 Ayepecks

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:29

But it's not going to have the same gameplay elements.

You're not going to pick up a syringe and inject yourself. As far as they've announced, there will be no adam, eve, big daddies, little sisters, etc

A telekinetic girl will be following you around and you youself will have some telekinetic powers.

It's not in the same universe. It deals with totally different themes (nationalism, colonialism, imperialism) and will present a totally different atmosphere (bright, in the air)

The only "Bioshock" thing about this game is that it's in first person and is rooted in deep literary themes and references

That's just like saying Bioshock is System Shock 3

Not really. Based on what the previews have said from the gameplay demo, it plays the exact same as the original Bioshock. It may not have certain characters like Big Daddies and the like, but if it has the exact same gameplay, why call it anything else? I mean, I suppose they could've been lame and called it "Airshock" or something like that, but what's the point?

#56 OP Massiveterra

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 01:22

Not really. Based on what the previews have said from the gameplay demo, it plays the exact same as the original Bioshock. It may not have certain characters like Big Daddies and the like, but if it has the exact same gameplay, why call it anything else? I mean, I suppose they could've been lame and called it "Airshock" or something like that, but what's the point?


From everything I've read, I haven't seen one site yet that says it plays just like the original Bioshock. I've even read that the game is no longer loot-driven, and that they've really changed the ways you use powers. But I am curious to where you've read that it plays exactly like Bioshock, because that contradicts all of the other sites I've read

They haven't showed any gameplay to the public yet, but if it plays exactly like Bioshock, my apologies for providing the wrong information.

#57 Ayepecks

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:35

Massiveterra: Examples? Everything I've read has said it has the same feel, even if the circumstances are different. I haven't read any of this stuff about the powers "working" differently. They showed gameplay to the media, but nothing released to the general public yet.

#58 thommcg

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:47

Far Cry 2
Bioshock Infinite

What next? Tekken 8, a driving simulator.

#59 Ayepecks

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:05

Far Cry 2
Bioshock Infinite

What next? Tekken 8, a driving simulator.

Don't compare this to the garbage that was Far Cry 2. That game was made by a separate Ubisoft team instead of Crytek. This is being made by the original (mostly) Bioshock team.

#60 thommcg

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:45

Don't compare this to the garbage that was Far Cry 2. That game was made by a separate Ubisoft team instead of Crytek. This is being made by the original (mostly) Bioshock team.

Taking the names of, apparently, unrelated predecessors is my point.



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