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polyarchist

Opera 11 is better than the latest Chrome and Firefox Nightlies

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Hello everybody, I've been reading this forum for a long time and decided to finally post something I felt was lacking in this subforum.

I've been using Firefox since before it was called Firefox, and I've switched to Chrome last year but recently I've been using Opera 11 and its become my default browser.

Why Firefox is lacking: The interface is terribly slow compared to the other 2 browsers, Gecko is notorious for being very slow due to the sheer amount of code, and even the Minefield nightlies continue to lag behind even Chrome and Opera stable versions in terms of compliance and speed. While it may have the biggest amount of extensions, it is only this fact that is keeping people in the Firefox world. Once extensions development approaches the comprehensiveness of Firefox's ecosystem, I see many users going to Chrome instead of Firefox. In other words, unless Mozilla can rewrite Firefox from scratch, I don't see how it can possibly compete with the Webkit browsers alone and I can see Chrome being the #2 browser for Windows by 2014 or so.

Why Chrome is lacking: Despite its massive gains over Firefox in terms of speed, compliance and UI responsiveness, it still has a lot of basic issues to deal with that continue to be ignored by Google: Why can't I manage the cache? Why can't I delete my history upon exiting the browser. I would say that that has a lot of to do with the spying that Chrome does with your browsing sessions. It can't create a profile of your browsing habits efficiently if you keep clearing out your history, as many people would choose to do. Also, the download manager is terrible and copy and paste functions continue to be extremely buggy on many website. Why does it have to save every torrent file I open? Why does it have to open the download bar when I right click save an image? All these things should have been fixed by now, but they aren't, because Google is too busy on only 2 things: 1) Performance 2) Finding new ways to mine your data, such as their sync, cloud print, and DNS options. While Chrome is faster than Firefox in many ways, it is not as good a browser in terms of features and privacy options, simply because Google is an advertising company, and the more control you have over your browser, the less of your data it can keep. There's a reason why there's an 11 page thread on this forum called "Things you hate about Chrome", you know!

Why Opera is best: Recent benchmarks show that Opera is similar to Chrome in terms of speed, and the interface is just as responsive while still using less memory than Chrome (but still more memory than Firefox) Best of all, Opera 11 now has extensions that are very similar to Chrome and every Chrome extension can be easily ported to Opera. Through these open standards, it is easier than ever to write an extension for a browser. With Opera, you get all the strengths of both Firefox and Chrome: You get Chrome's speed and Firefox's featureset, with even more built-in, like native content blocking, email, IRC, etc. You even get built-in Greasemonkey script support! There is really no reason to use either Chrome or Firefox when Opera simply combines the two in a lightweight installation.

Try Opera 11 when it becomes stable this month, guys, and get all the benefits of Chrome while not sacrificing even the basic browser that Firefox provides, and start from scratch with its new extension support.

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Hello everybody, I've been reading this forum for a long time and decided to finally post something I felt was lacking in this subforum.

I've been using Firefox since before it was called Firefox, and I've switched to Chrome last year but recently I've been using Opera 11 and its become my default browser.

Why Firefox is lacking: The interface is terribly slow compared to the other 2 browsers, Gecko is notorious for being very slow due to the sheer amount of code, and even the Minefield nightlies continue to lag behind even Chrome and Opera stable versions in terms of compliance and speed. While it may have the biggest amount of extensions, it is only this fact that is keeping people in the Firefox world. Once extensions development approaches the comprehensiveness of Firefox's ecosystem, I see many users going to Chrome instead of Firefox. In other words, unless Mozilla can rewrite Firefox from scratch, I don't see how it can possibly compete with the Webkit browsers alone and I can see Chrome being the #2 browser for Windows by 2014 or so.

Why Chrome is lacking: Despite its massive gains over Firefox in terms of speed, compliance and UI responsiveness, it still has a lot of basic issues to deal with that continue to be ignored by Google: Why can't I manage the cache? Why can't I delete my history upon exiting the browser. I would say that that has a lot of to do with the spying that Chrome does with your browsing sessions. It can't create a profile of your browsing habits efficiently if you keep clearing out your history, as many people would choose to do. Also, the download manager is terrible and copy and paste functions continue to be extremely buggy on many website. Why does it have to save every torrent file I open? Why does it have to open the download bar when I right click save an image? All these things should have been fixed by now, but they aren't, because Google is too busy on only 2 things: 1) Performance 2) Finding new ways to mine your data, such as their sync, cloud print, and DNS options. While Chrome is faster than Firefox in many ways, it is not as good a browser in terms of features and privacy options, simply because Google is an advertising company, and the more control you have over your browser, the less of your data it can keep. There's a reason why there's an 11 page thread on this forum called "Things you hate about Chrome", you know!

Why Opera is best: Recent benchmarks show that Opera is similar to Chrome in terms of speed, and the interface is just as responsive while still using less memory than Chrome (but still more memory than Firefox) Best of all, Opera 11 now has extensions that are very similar to Chrome and every Chrome extension can be easily ported to Opera. Through these open standards, it is easier than ever to write an extension for a browser. With Opera, you get all the strengths of both Firefox and Chrome: You get Chrome's speed and Firefox's featureset, with even more built-in, like native content blocking, email, IRC, etc. You even get built-in Greasemonkey script support! There is really no reason to use either Chrome or Firefox when Opera simply combines the two in a lightweight installation.

Try Opera 11 when it becomes stable this month, guys, and get all the benefits of Chrome while not sacrificing even the basic browser that Firefox provides, and start from scratch with its new extension support.

I stopped reading after that...

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Nice rant but I'll stick with Firefox.

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Yeah, but the logo sucks (only 50% joking) :)

Seriously though... Opera 11 wastes space.... the Menu button could be alongside your first tab. Instead though it's above and you have all that glass above your tabs just wasted. Secondly, separate search bars are completely and utterly unnecessary. Can I remove it and search from the address bar like most other browsers are doing now?

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I stopped reading after that...

You think Chrome is just being handed out for free and Google gets nothing out of it? What do you think an advertising company does?

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You think Chrome is just being handed out for free and Google gets nothing out of it? What do you think an advertising company does?

Google is more than an ad company lol

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I have to say I agree and when I try to tell people exactly what you're saying they call me a "Opera fanboy". Opera has passed Chrome a few times in terms of speed, kinda putting Chrome to the back bench.

Opera is a great browser, it just doesn't have the advertising platform to jump from like every other of the four main browsers does. It's actually quite amazing that people use a web browser MADE by a advertising company that is WELL KNOWN for stealing your data. Yes, I'm talking about Chrome.

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Google is more than an ad company lol

Yeah, that's for sure. I was using Chromium so I wouldn't have to install that extra stuff that comes bundled with Chrome that isn't open-source. Opera may be closed-sourced but I trust Opera more than I do Google.

I have to say I agree and when I try to tell people exactly what you're saying they call me a "Opera fanboy". Opera has passed Chrome a few times in terms of speed, kinda putting Chrome to the back bench.

Opera is a great browser, it just doesn't have the advertising platform to jump from like every other of the four main browsers does. It's actually quite amazing that people use a web browser MADE by a advertising company that is WELL KNOWN for stealing your data. Yes, I'm talking about Chrome.

I mean, seriously, Chrome doesn't even let you manage your cache or auto-delete your history like Firefox and Opera can and people still think Chrome is not recording browsing habits. It's shocking to me how much people have an almost religious trust in Google despite these obvious red flags.

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Yeah, but the logo sucks (only 50% joking) :)

Seriously though... Opera 11 wastes space.... the Menu button could be alongside your first tab. Instead though it's above and you have all that glass above your tabs just wasted. Secondly, separate search bars are completely and utterly unnecessary. Can I remove it and search from the address bar like most other browsers are doing now?

Yes, you can search from the address bar. Default is Google. The search bar gives search suggestions though :)

Also for me, the menu button is beside the first tab. It's that way by default. You can move it up if you wish though, but I like it beside the first tab.

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Opera was the first prophet, it was always better and faster than Chrome, but lacks features compared with FF. Oh, and I'm a Linux (Mint) user now and I don't like to f**k up my system by installing a new build every day.. so I stick with FF until Opera 11.x Final comes out ;]

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I would say that that has a lot of to do with the spying that Chrome does with your browsing sessions. It can't create a profile of your browsing habits efficiently if you keep clearing out your history, as many people would choose to do. Also, the download manager is terrible and copy and paste functions continue to be extremely buggy on many website.

This would explain why I was just able to click on a "Clear browsing data" item in the chrome menu.

Why Opera is best: Recent benchmarks show that Opera is similar to Chrome in terms of speed, and the interface is just as responsive while still using less memory than Chrome (but still more memory than Firefox) Best of all, Opera 11 now has extensions that are very similar to Chrome and every Chrome extension can be easily ported to Opera. Through these open standards, it is easier than ever to write an extension for a browser. With Opera, you get all the strengths of both Firefox and Chrome: You get Chrome's speed and Firefox's featureset, with even more built-in, like native content blocking, email, IRC, etc. You even get built-in Greasemonkey script support! There is really no reason to use Opera when simply combines the two in a lightweight installation.

I can tell you a good reason why one would use Chrome. Personally I like the minimalism of Chrome, which Opera lacks. Why do I need an Email or IRC thing in my browser. I don't use a separate email app and already have an IRC client that is loads better. Plus you can't get any lighter than a ZIP file as far as installation goes. I've not installed a version of either Firefox or Chrome in quite some time.

Try Opera 11 when it becomes stable this month, guys, and get all the benefits of Chrome while not sacrificing even the basic browser that Firefox provides, and start from scratch with its new extension support.

Or I can keep using my firefox and chrome which has all the same things from the start.

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This would explain why I was just able to click on a "Clear browsing data" item in the chrome menu.

This is not the same as clearing your history upon exit, and there is no option to go into incognito mode every time within the browser. You have to actually add some information to the shortcut, which Google knows most people simply won't do.

I can tell you a good reason why one would use Chrome. Personally I like the minimalism of Chrome, which Opera lacks. Why do I need an Email or IRC thing in my browser. I don't use a separate email app and already have an IRC client that is loads better. Plus you can't get any lighter than a ZIP file as far as installation goes. I've not installed a version of either Firefox or Chrome in quite some time.

I don't use email or IRC either. It doesn't even get in my way. I just think it's funny that a Chrome installation is 30 MB while the Opera 11 installation is only 7 MB despite all that extra stuff. :whistle:

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BAWWW GOOGLE ARE SPYING ON ME!!!!!

If they want to feed my search history into a set of algorithms to figure out the ads to display for me so that (a) I can get those most relevant to me and (b) they can make more money so they keep providing me with lots of software and services for free, then I'm fine with it.

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I can tell you a good reason why one would use Chrome. Personally I like the minimalism of Chrome, which Opera lacks. Why do I need an Email or IRC thing in my browser. I don't use a separate email app and already have an IRC client that is loads better. Plus you can't get any lighter than a ZIP file as far as installation goes. I've not installed a version of either Firefox or Chrome in quite some time.

The email and IRC things don't load unless YOU want them. So they don't take up any extra memory.

The Opera "installer" is just quite simply a 7-zip extraction, so it's pretty much the same thing as the Chrome mini-installer. In terms of file size, Opera takes the win (it's 4x smaller than Chromium 10). And in terms of memory, Chrome takes the win. Neither use atrocious amounts and, like most people here, I have plenty of space / memory so its not like that comparison matters much anyways.

In terms of minimalistic design, both chrome and opera are pretty much identical (apart from Opera having like 2 more buttons on the bar...oh shocking, so much space wasted :rolleyes: )

Seriously though... Opera 11 wastes space.... the Menu button could be alongside your first tab. Instead though it's above and you have all that glass above your tabs just wasted. Secondly, separate search bars are completely and utterly unnecessary. Can I remove it and search from the address bar like most other browsers are doing now?

The menu button is alongside your first tab when the screen is maximized.

And yes you can search from the address bar, making the search bar useless. Basically the way Opera works is you have a bunch of search engines (Google, Bing, Wikipedia etc) and if you want to search them you type the following into the address bar (without quotes obviously):

Bing - "b I want cookies"

Google - "g I want cookies"

Wikipedia - "w I want cookies"

And you can obviously add more search engines / modify the letter identifiers (the letter you put before your search term to let Opera know which search engine you want to use).

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what about the flaws of Opera aswell?

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Yeah, but the logo sucks (only 50% joking) :)

Seriously though... Opera 11 wastes space.... the Menu button could be alongside your first tab. Instead though it's above and you have all that glass above your tabs just wasted. Secondly, separate search bars are completely and utterly unnecessary. Can I remove it and search from the address bar like most other browsers are doing now?

When maximized, Opera Menu button is placed beside the first tab. It is only above the tabs when not maximized.

You can do direct searches from the main address bar (it does everything Chrome/firefox can). All you have to do to remove the search bar is right click on it, Appearance-> Remove.

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I can tell you a good reason why one would use Chrome. Personally I like the minimalism of Chrome, which Opera lacks. Why do I need an Email or IRC thing in my browser. I don't use a separate email app and already have an IRC client that is loads better. Plus you can't get any lighter than a ZIP file as far as installation goes. I've not installed a version of either Firefox or Chrome in quite some time.

On Windows, Opera is now installed via a custom self extracting 7Zip archive, so it's lighter than a ZIP :p Heck, you can rename it as .7z file and extract out of it yourself, and Opera also allows portable installations by default now too (: It's also got the smallest install file of any Windows browser.

And if you don't need the Mail or IRC, just don't take notice. Many, many people who use Opera don't have clue it was a working mail client or IRC, because their out of your way, and they don't clutter or effect your interface in any, or effect memory usage.

<img>

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what about the flaws of Opera aswell?

The only flaws I can see are that it isn't as popular (less than 3% marketshare) and only has 195 extensions at the moment.

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I have to say I agree and when I try to tell people exactly what you're saying they call me a "Opera fanboy". Opera has passed Chrome a few times in terms of speed, kinda putting Chrome to the back bench.

Opera is a great browser, it just doesn't have the advertising platform to jump from like every other of the four main browsers does. It's actually quite amazing that people use a web browser MADE by a advertising company that is WELL KNOWN for stealing your data. Yes, I'm talking about Chrome.

Well said... Opera is by far the best browser out here. :)

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I have to say I agree and when I try to tell people exactly what you're saying they call me a "Opera fanboy". Opera has passed Chrome a few times in terms of speed, kinda putting Chrome to the back bench.

Opera is a great browser, it just doesn't have the advertising platform to jump from like every other of the four main browsers does. It's actually quite amazing that people use a web browser MADE by a advertising company that is WELL KNOWN for stealing your data. Yes, I'm talking about Chrome.

tinfoil-hat.jpg

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Yeah, but the logo sucks (only 50% joking) :)

Seriously though... Opera 11 wastes space.... the Menu button could be alongside your first tab. Instead though it's above and you have all that glass above your tabs just wasted. Secondly, separate search bars are completely and utterly unnecessary. Can I remove it and search from the address bar like most other browsers are doing now?

Firefox 4 has the same design as Opera. Just maximize to have the menu button next to your tabs.

Also, yes, you can search from the address bar just like Chrome and remove the search bar.

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Google don't steal any data, they just monitor your usage habits. The tinfoil hat brigade seems to love these kind of threads.

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The only flaws I can see are that it isn't as popular (less than 3% marketshare) and only has 195 extensions at the moment.

so other than low marketshare and only recent extensions , you're arguing that Opera has no flaws? :rolleyes:

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Well, this whole thread is blatant flamebait, but what the hey. Just a few days ago I went and installed all the nightlies of Opera 11, Chromium, and Firefox 4. (I went with Chromium as I don't need the inane "update services" and all that other Google crap running in the background.)

Chromium, at least on my rig, handled javascript exceedingly quick, but the rest of the browser not so much. Wasn't slow, but it certainly wasn't impressive either.. not sure if it was a configuration error, but out of the box it as pretty underwhelming. Wasn't terribly impressed with the memory usage as well.. a few times it flew past FF4's usage. The one thing that struck me interesting was it's 'app store'. Novel idea, but my desktop runs desktop apps, and if I wanted an 'app store', I'd buy an Android or iPad.

Opera was pretty much identical in performance.. fast under the hood, but the browser itself was a "meh" at best. The few extensions that I tried failed miserably (at best buggy, at worst didn't run at all or even crashed the browser), but granted that's a "new" concept for Opera and it is a nightly, so to be expected I guess.. hopefully they get it worked out. As it stands currently though, borderline useless. Other than that, it's the same super-inflexible Opera that I've grown to dislike.

FF4 (Minefield nightly, not B7) on the other hand was almost as fast as Chromium in the JS department, but the browser itself was very fast.. just for a test IE's Fishtank demo for example, FF4 was the only one that I got a framerate that capped at my display's refresh speed, the other browsers weren't even close. Same with Futuremark's browser benchmark, overall I had better results with FF4. Regular browsing was near instant, no waiting. Plus FF4 still has by far the most and best extendability of any browser, period. I have still yet to find another browser with an AdBlock/NoScript type setup that actually comes even close to being as good.. they all have knockoffs, but they all fail to impress.

If pure JS speed is all that matters for you, then by all means go with Opera or Chrome. Me though, I prefer my browser to be a bit more flexible. Does it really matter what I think? Not in the least, nor do I care in the slightest what anyone else thinks. Find the one you like and stick with it, pat yourself on the back for making a decision. No need to start these inane threads though.

Flame on.

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so other than low marketshare and only recent extensions , you're arguing that Opera has no flaws? :rolleyes:

He's saying flaws he can see, not that there aren't any @___@

I look at Opera for example, I can't see anything particularly flawed about it. It's fast, light, feature packed, looks decent, and it browses the web perfectly fine for me. I look at Firefox, I see a "heavy", less responsive, slower UI, I look at Chrome and just see the lack of "being able to run/open instead of having to save and download". Both are perfectly fine browsers apart from those minor things, but they are'nt flaws I see in Opera, and no Opera flaw presents it self to me during day to day usage. There may be room for improvement, but nothing flawed.One of the nicer thing's about Opera is that no matter how much your browser gets bogged down, its interface always tends to remain responsive, fast and animated, and the smooth scroll never waivers. The same can't be quite said of Chrome, and certainly not of FFB7 at the moment, but that's in a far more BETA state interface tech wise than the other two.

@Jen: are you running XP or have DWM turned off or something? Firefox B7's UI tends to be generally naturally slower, choppier, slightly jumpier occasionally than Opera/Chrome at the moment when Direct2D is on :/ <img>

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