presence06 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I read a troubling thread over at MyDroidWorld this weekend from famed community developer P3Droid. His report spoke of an industry-wide movement to crack down on users who root their devices. Yes, tethering your data is a violation of your contract and any carrier has the right to shut you down and make you pay for that right. But it?s more than just ?illegal? use of data if he?s to be believed.Starting with the locked bootloader trkend that seems to be taking off, it seemed Motorola was the only manufacturer keen on locking their devices down for one reason or another, but P3Droid says that isn?t the case. (We know HTC?s newer line of phones implement newer, tougher security.) It?s a mix of carriers, OEMs, and Google themselves working together to find ways to better ?protect? users. This means implementing security features that circumvents common exploits used to gain root access. The end result is supposed to ensure that no malicious applications can steal a user?s data. (Something that has actually become a reality as of late.) That?s noble, but the next bit of information is what really worries me ? carriers and OEMs are supposedly beginning to implement tracking applications that will allow them to know who?s on a rooted phone and carrying out actions such as unauthorized tethering. He reports that there are several different methods they implement. They can simply see which MEID numbers refuse over the air updates. It?s common for custom ROM developers to disable that functionality to ensure the users of those ROMs aren?t interrupted. (And to make sure any OTA doesn?t somehow brick their phones.) Verizon seemed to be the first, but he reports that all major carriers have expressed their interest in it and are pleased with how well it works. It?s not yet known which devices carry this tracking application, if any at all. ?So why don?t developers just remove that tracking application?? That?s a good question, but a horrible answer is to follow ? your phone would no longer be able to operate on the network via voice or data. And if the carriers don?t want to go to such extremes, they could simply just throttle your data speeds ? Verizon reportedly successfully tested this on several devices that met the conditions. None of this is confirmed, but P3Droid is a name that we trust after all he?s done for the development community. None of this is 100% going down for now, but just the thought of it is quite unsettling. If true, we hope Google and its partners reconsider such practices and come up with better ways to protect the users who they claim they?re protecting. (It really sounds like they?re just intending to punish the users that they can?t trust with their chain-free devices.) What are your thoughts on all of this? [MyDroidWorld via AndroidForums, Thanks to everyone who sent this in!] Phandroid I know Google is trying to fix the Fragmentation, but they need to stop the carriers from installing bloat-ware on our phones then and we wouldn't have to root (assuming most root to clear out the crap and install their own themes..etc..). C'mon Google.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Not really worried...and I will still pick them over any other device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presence06 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Not really worried...and I will still pick them over any other device. I won't pick iPhone over Android, it just doesn't make sense if they want to so "lock" android down so people can't root. Then why does Google allow for bloat/crapware to be installed on the phones. Most people don't even use the apps. This is what Dell used to do and now they don't it, or it's very little apps. Let the user decide if they want Slacker Radio, or TeleNav on their devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The default security model is for apps to be given access to the things they need anyway, so Google's argument that it's to prevent unauthorised applications from stealing your data is absolute rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The new Samsung Galaxy ACE & NEO come with Android 2.2 and are locked with no way to update OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The quickest way for Google to put a swift end to fragmentation is to demand that the OEMs provide generic versions of each update for their phones with the threat of revoking the OEM's license to Android if they don't, and then demand that carriers allow users to install the generic versions of Android instead of them requiring carrier-specific versions. That is something they should have done from the start anyway. That's one of the biggest things I despise about Android (even though I like it for the most part). Google gave carriers and OEMs far too much control over updates. MightyJordan, briangw, betadan and 15 others 18 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelar Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Another issue of concern is the lack of support by everyone involved. Company A releases the newest and best phone and User A runs out and purchases it. Two months later, Company A releases a new phone and decides not to release any more patches for the previous phone. I know a lot of people that root just to get newer features that they should be getting already.... Ji@nBing, Ryster and Charisma 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3ntury Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The ZTE Blade is a fantastic example of how keeping the device open can benefit it. It comes with stock 2.1 Android, but it has a huge community developing for it, with several custom ROMs Froyo and even Gingerbread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The quickest way for Google to put a swift end to fragmentation is to demand that the OEMs provide generic versions of each update for their phones with the threat of revoking the OEM's license to Android if they don't, and then demand that carriers allow users to install the generic versions of Android instead of them requiring carrier-specific versions. That is something they should have done from the start anyway. That's one of the biggest things I despise about Android (even though I like it for the most part). Google gave carriers and OEMs far too much control over updates. Yeah thats the main problem they all put their own stamp on the base OS like the Sony Ericsson Timescape crap which means older phones that are more than capable of gingerbread will never get them because Sony doesnt want to spend the time and money creating a version of gingerbread for each phone. The ZTE Blade is a fantastic example of how keeping the device open can benefit it. It comes with stock 2.1 Android, but it has a huge community developing for it, with several custom ROMs Froyo and even Gingerbread! Its not "open" it just happens that they dont have their own custom UI, all the roms that are for the phone are ported from other phones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.grz Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 That's the major reason I went with Android. I was able to replace the stock OEM ROM of my G2 with and load a clean ROM of Gingerbread...no OEM crap anywhere in site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfMart Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 That's the major reason I went with Android. I was able to replace the stock OEM ROM of my G2 with and load a clean ROM of Gingerbread...no OEM crap anywhere in site! But doesnt it stand to reason if they didnt customise the ROM with all the branding and crap then you wouldnt need to root and load a clean rom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I don't know why Google decided to give so much power to the carriers. Apple manage to make sure they couldn't install any crap on their phone so anyone who get's an iPhone gets the same great experience. Plus I love how to managed to keep the carriers from branding the phones :x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I don't know why Google decided to give so much power to the carriers. Apple manage to make sure they couldn't install any crap on their phone so anyone who get's an iPhone gets the same great experience. Plus I love how to managed to keep the carriers from branding the phones :x For some people, of whom I am one, Apple's walled garden approach is no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Advancer Subscriber² Posted April 4, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted April 4, 2011 Believe it or not, but the carriers have pretty much all the saying in the matters of new phones and what they should include of hardware/software. My Desire is rooted for my pleasure, and I hope all my future phones can be rooted too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted April 4, 2011 Global Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2011 in my case, Sprint released some update for the Evo last year that CRIPPLED the phone's battery life. the phone went from 12hrs on a charge under normal use to 4hrs. to my knowledge they still havent fixed that bug. how is that acceptable? i had to root my wife's Evo to get a clean image that didnt suffer the battery life problem. it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ironically, SonyEricsson, which has so far had the toughest bootloader, and still hasn't been properly fully opened, though you can install new roms now, but it took forever on the X10. is now pledging that on new devices sold from 2011 and on, you will be able to order a unlocker code from SE, that will unlock the bootloader of the phone. Using it however will break your warranty. So SE opens up and everyone else closes up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ironically, SonyEricsson, which has so far had the toughest bootloader, and still hasn't been properly fully opened, though you can install new roms now, but it took forever on the X10. is now pledging that on new devices sold from 2011 and on, you will be able to order a unlocker code from SE, that will unlock the bootloader of the phone. Using it however will break your warranty. So SE opens up and everyone else closes up :) I love the irony in that, but fair play to sony for at least being friendly to the dev community. The only downside, however is that they will only be allowing that on unbranded phones, from what I can gather phones with carrier locks or carrier branding will be exempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Advancer Subscriber² Posted April 4, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted April 4, 2011 SonyEricsson also added detection for rooted and tampered phones in their software update program, Emma, today... http://emma.extranet.sonyericsson.com/releases.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I love the irony in that, but fair play to sony for at least being friendly to the dev community. The only downside, however is that they will only be allowing that on unbranded phones, from what I can gather phones with carrier locks or carrier branding will be exempt. But that's fair, you did then buy a branded phone, and that means that the operator foots a sizeable chunk of the bill and wants to control the phone while you're under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omganinja Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Wait, pretty sure in Australia, if you have a data plan, you can tether it, no need for a special plan. My data plan is actually labeled as 'mobile as modem'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmdixon Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 My Desire is rooted. It was partly to remove the "crap" but also i scale back the cpu based on battery life/screen off etc. This means my battery lasts longer and i can still use my phone 'properly'. It wouldn't be the end of the world if i couldn't root but it allows me to tweak things (i also have a custom theme/battery icon) and use my phone how i like. Stopping people from rooting won't stop apps stealing your info. The recent case didn't require the user to be rooted (although it did root as part of the hack) and the apps were in the market! Most issues are with people blindly installing apps without looking at what permissions they ask for. Tethering is also part of the 2.2 firmware so i don't need root to be able to tether.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 But that's fair, you did then buy a branded phone, and that means that the operator foots a sizeable chunk of the bill and wants to control the phone while you're under contract. I'm not blaming them for that, I just find it disappointing that phone manufacturers allow the networks to dictate to them so much. The networks don't lose as much money on rooted phones as they like to make people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybertimber2008 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 But that's fair, you did then buy a branded phone, and that means that the operator foots a sizeable chunk of the bill and wants to control the phone while you're under contract. Then I would expect that if I bought a phone unsubsidized, full price and doesn't require a contract/contract renewal, then it's mine to decide if I want to root and what to run on it (exception being contract breaking tethering or something). Unfortunatley it's not that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Then I would expect that if I bought a phone unsubsidized, full price and doesn't require a contract/contract renewal, then it's mine to decide if I want to root and what to run on it (exception being contract breaking tethering or something). Unfortunatley it's not that way. Why, just because it's open doesn't mean the manufacturer wants you to do anything you want with it. especially since rooting it and flashing firmware on it, can easily kill any phone, and there's very little they can do to prove you where flashing a third party firmware and not an official one. on top of that, whether you own it or not, they're selling yo a phone with certain features, and certain features you aren't allowed by the network whether you own it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Til I Die Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Then I would expect that if I bought a phone unsubsidized, full price and doesn't require a contract/contract renewal, then it's mine to decide if I want to root and what to run on it (exception being contract breaking tethering or something). Unfortunatley it's not that way. Unfortunately that's not how it works.. you purchase the hardware and rights to use the software, not the software itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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