9 years down the road with Neowin

Hi there it's Steve here, otherwise known as Neobond on the forums. It's also weekend, and a perfect day for an "opinion piece". Remember back in 2000 when we started? Many of you will because we still have a very large active user base for people who joined in 2001 when our forum database was reset for the first and only time in our history.

We came onto the scene back then to cover what would become Windows XP, the sheer lack of decent information and our dodgy insider information paved the way for what has become a hugely successful point of news and interaction for the community, with the multiple re-generations of the site, I still feel that while we have "grown up" a lot that we have somehow retained our roots for where unprofessional journalism looks better. Granted, we now actually pay the news staff for their contributions and there is a process where a team will have to approve what is submitted by the news team, but I feel we still retained the ability to post news in a fashion where anyone can understand what is being relayed.

We could have gone the route with graphs, multi-page news items and a bombardment of statistics to back all that up, but that was never the focus for the site and I very much doubt that will change anytime soon.

Between the years 2003 and 2008 we slipped into syndicating news rather than actually writing our own and newsposters were very hard to come by on a voluntary basis. Since we introduced payment for articles late last year, I feel that the site has taken another surge of regeneration, the popularity increase we've seen over the past 6 to 8 months is a clear indication of that success. Last year we were somewhere in the region of the top 2000 on Technorati, today we are in the top 200 at 151 with over 1200 different websites linking to our original news content over the past 6 months. That figure would be higher if Technorati spidered the whole web, but it doesn't -I'm not complaining about those results however!

You may have noticed that I don't post as much as I used to, I usually keep my posts to the Software section now-a-days, because of the much higher quality of posting by the "new guys" outshines my abilities by quite a bit!

Some of the long term members who are still active, may remember a lot of my tongue in cheek postings on the main page covering Windows XP betas, a few editorials or general updates because we had such bad hosting for the first 4 years! Those days may be gone where I could post a single paragraph of updates, but remember that we aren't The Washington Post, or The Times (of London). We will still post opinion pieces, and they might be a little biased at times, but what you are seeing comes from our roots.

Some newer members may not understand that, but we aren't deaf either. We started paying news staff for the better quality a lot of our members were asking for so we could finally be rid of syndicated (or Around the Web) news.

I think in our 9th year I can proudly claim that we have given you the community, most of what was asked of us, within reason.

So if you see an opinion piece and decide it shouldn't be front page news, ask yourself if you know what we have continually published to the main site all these years, and maybe if you are trying to compare us to some other site. We would also encourage our readers to outdo us by contributing, all of our staff were community members who believed they could do better for the site in different ways, we applaud and encourage it!

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I don't care about any negative comments or even anyone's suggestions. I have been coming here for years and i am quite happy with the way it works! I post very little but i try to be helpful, and yes, sometimes i get mad about things here and sometimes overstep my boundries but this is the place i go to more frequently than anywhere on the web. Neowin can thank Fark for that, from ages ago.
anyhoo, keep on keepin on steve (neobond) and staff.

Neowin's been around for nine years already? Holy crap! :o

Been here since August 2001 and I still check the site regularly, although I go there more for the jokes than to get tech support advice.

Really liking the newer front page, I had all but stopped reading it before as I'd seen it before elsewhere. But now come there before the forums again. So really big thumbs up to the news team and glad that Neowin is always evolving.

We'll always have these debates about Windows vs Apple articles and opinion pieces directed towards anything other than Windows because we are unique in that we try to cover a broad spectrum rather than just focusing on Windows.

It's just a shame that the vast majority of Windows users here can't afford time to our smaller, yet loyal, Apple memberbase like our news team tries to.

Neobond said,
We'll always have these debates about Windows vs Apple articles and opinion pieces directed towards anything other than Windows because we are unique in that we try to cover a broad spectrum rather than just focusing on Windows.

It's just a shame that the vast majority of Windows users here can't afford time to our smaller, yet loyal, Apple memberbase like our news team tries to.


As acidic as I can sound, I actually respect the Mac and its users. For what they do, they're good machines. They just don't do enough for me, and the extra cost involved for little gain is absurd except in the obvious case where one had a MAJOR issue with their Windows experience so had to go with something different.

I only have a problem when the opinion piece just sounds absurd. And arguments about aesthetics usually do. 'My box is prettier, and that's so important!' To which iRL I would respond 'Please buy me a gun so I can shoot you.' Not that I would, of course.

Anyway, I don't care if you guys are listening or ignoring the vocal readers on this point...as I said, worst case scenario I read another site and noone cares. We just think it'd be a shame if it came to that.

Just felt like putting my ten cents in here, and I'm not looking to attack anyone or anything.

I like Neowin about 99% of the time. When I see articles espousing form over function (what I would normally define as vapid and make dumb blonde jokes about) I have to wonder how long I'll keep reading. Articles of questionable character do the same for me.

I'm not completely anti Mac although I have no intention of ever owning an Apple product, but some of the things Mac users say are EXACTLY why I'll never own one. If I want a useless machine that looks pretty I'll buy an aluminum toaster. It's cheaper.

Anyway, back on topic I wish Neowin all the best but opinion pieces are like cheese...sometimes good, but sometimes they're full of holes, and sometimes they just plain stink. I'm not sure how many more of them I'll be able to roll my eyes at before I check out.

Been here since '04, and have to say, even with some of the one paragraph Win 7 leak news and the opinion charged editorials, I still find that Neowin is the fastest place for tech news. Since not everything can be perfect, Neowin is still my favorite site, and here's to another 9 more years, and hopefully even more!

Agreed. I too have been a member since '04 and I've enjoyed my stay here at Neowin. I continue to enjoy it as the days go by. I've only been here for 5 years. I sure as hell don't plan on leaving yet!

Been here since the beginning - and I hope to be here still in another 9 years! Keep up the great work Steven, and the rest of the news crew, grats to you all :)

P.S. Since ive been here from the beginning, wheres my cookie dammit? :P

I've only been a registered member here for maybe a year or so. But I've been an active reader for maybe double that time. I enjoy reading most of the content posted here - most of the time very informative for me. Keep up the awesome work and I'll keep on supporting! Cheers!

Joined: 4-August 01
Member No.: 337

Still loving every minute of it. I come to Neowin almost every day, and if I do miss a week or two (vacation, etc.) then I always read all the articles I missed. Keep it up Neowin!

To make the site better I think the Admins should hand out the ban card a bit more. The direct attacks should not have a place in this site. I remember this being done in the gamers hangout a while back. Things got recently worse again. The admins are pretty generous with only warning's. I must admit I was a bit obnoxious at my start. I'm happy I found some type of civil maturety. I still can not spell worth a crap though.

If you do not like the articles of the site don't read them! Go to 4chan.

Most of the staff are not paid. I don't know why they put up with 1/2 of the crap sometimes. Its no wonder you see more Veteran tags. I moderate a small remanufacturing forum my self.

My ex recommended this site to me. It's been my homepage (backpage news) ever since. Never had a problem with staff, but I also know how to follow rules.

Joined: 3-August 2001
Member Number: 287

Lots of things have changed, and I feel very old reading this..

I miss the days of watercolor whistler too..

i found this site from a link from bink.nu when the public RC for XP came out. been here ever since. lol 36 posts in 5+ years........

I remember I found Neowin when I was 15, registered when I was 16. Now I'm 23!!

It's been an awesome time, cheers to another 9 years!!!

Wow, what a coincidence... I also found Neowin when I was 15 (around summer of 2004) and registered when I was 16 in March 2005.

Hahaha! I've been lurking Neowin from 2002 to 2004. It wasn't until 6 months after my 13th birthday that I registered an account in May of 2004. I guess I was a little too young to be reading tech articles and forum posts. :P

I just finally signed up for an account so that I could say "Neowin is the best tech related news site I have ever come across!". I've been reading Neowin for years and I've enjoyed every article (even the comment wars, it's like reading the funnies in a news paper). Keep up the great work Neowin!

The main thing I dislike about Neowin isn't the opinion pieces it's the religious/political stuff which I'd prefer not to be on a technology site. But of course you can just choose to ignore it.

I remember coming across neowin.net 9 years ago, because it was the same time I became a civilian of the general public after spending 9 years in army, if my memory serves me correctly James Tingle done the original script for neowin.net. I've known James for a couple of years, and hope he still has his dream of sailing across the oceans, I haven't spoken to him for two years we kind of lost touch. Concentrate off the topic... Oh year does anybody remember the old purple design of the very first neowin? I cannot recall my first registration name as it was 9 years ago, but I do recall neowin closing it's doors and there was a time when I think Steve (neobond) got a little scared because the website bloomed and exploded into an international phenomenon. I think neowin will continue to grow and prosper, and I think will last for a very long time.

Hi
I've been reading Neowin since 2001 but created an account to comment in around 2003 I think? This site was very good back in 2001 (which is why it got such a large user base). Really good quality stuff and gave attention to the best in tech.

It has gone a little off track in recent years. The recent obsession with fruit has plagued Neowin like it has plagued many other news sites. Just marketing doing its thing, I hope it wears off eventually.

You guys still put out top-notch stories. I just have to wade through a bunch of useless articles to get them now. I guess those useless articles are what improves your popularity though, basing it off the fact that you have climbed much higher in the past two years while the quality hasn't improved.

Since more popularity gives you guys more money, it's not all bad. I just wish there was an RSS feed with only your guys quality articles do I didn't have to waste my time (hey that's a good idea). Can you guys make an RSS feed with genuine news articles (without the opinion pieces and blogs unless they are of a high standard).

Thanks! Keep it up.

I've been around since right around the beginning, with my first account being lost in one of the first site crashes. Anyways, I've always liked some of the opinion flare on the site, and while there are probably a lot of reasons, of late it's just felt cheapened and weak. Perhaps it just doesn't agree with my opinions anymore, maybe I'm getting old, whatever, but I think by and large a number of recent opinion articles have been poorly researched and not just been bias but blindly ignorant.

I'm fine with having things I like brutally bashed by zealot twits, that's pretty much been the case in the WB forum for well, since ever. But what I don't like, and what I'm seeing on the front page aren't just strongly opinionated arguments, they're outright attempts to prod certain groups and they're done so without even the grace of a little tongue and cheek. I hope some of it ends or at least becomes a little more humorous, something to laugh over, or perhaps I just need to go somewhere else *shrug*

I love the site, i wish i could contribute more but i feel there are already members here who are at much greater level and can explain much better... but whenever i have a computer issue or feel like reading some news this is the first place i visit. i have learned so much...

I visit alot of forums based on many different subjects and each one of them has their own group of bitches, thats just the way it is... one thing i dont understand though is that people cant just 'leave it', its a really big site that tries to cater for everyone, every once in a while you might not like it, just skip past it... the site is not just for your benefit. There are far members more complaining than not and its still the busiest site i visit.

Registered on Jun 10 2002, 23:13
Member No.: 13,614

Thanks for Windows XP I found Neowin. Althought, I'm not really as active as the other members here especially in the forums but I usually go and refer to Neowin for first hand info on Windows and other news on the internet.

After 7 Years of browsing Neowin almost everyday, I could say Neowin's the best.

I found this site within the last year and have been coming here everyday. The articles are interesting and I feel more connected to the various happenings of the tech world by reading this site than when I go to other sites.

Been around since 2001, although my screen name says I joined later on. I had another username, which I got tired of. Its a great site, and while I dont post at all anymore, I still lurk. I remember going through the whistler beta, the vista betas, all the good stuff.

I find it both humorous and ironic that those complaining aren't subscribers, yet presume that they have some "right" to tell even the owners of the site what they have the right to post or not, while those that are subscribers can see the value of editorial pieces, as well as the true statistics of Neowin and our competitors over the course of history, and not just an ill-informed and under-explained chart. To add to that, quite a lot of those complaining have extensive histories of behavioral problems here, so one must take their anti-Neowin rants with a grain of salt.

It seems that whenever an opportunity to bash Neowin arises we can always count on "the usual suspects" and that while they continue to present the opinion that Neowin is somehow deteriorating (yet continue to visit themselves), we continue to strive to improve, and continue to attract new members, increase visitors, our traffic increases, and our rankings among our peers continues to climb. I'm sorry, your footing is shaky, and your rage is misguided.

I tried to be a subscriber once, and since the admin never contacted me back to resolve what was going on with that particular issue...

Most of the things I bitch about are, well, correct. Feel free to ask me all you want via PM or IRC.

tiagosilva29 said,
I tried to be a subscriber once, and since the admin never contacted me back to resolve what was going on with that particular issue...

Most of the things I bitch about are, well, correct. Feel free to ask me all you want via PM or IRC.


How did you "try" to subscribe and fail? You pay with PayPal and give them your Neowin user name. That's it.

Hey genius

You would think that subscribers, people that are paying, would be supportive of the current environment, which is why they're probably supporting the site?

One would also imagine that people who are not satisfied with the site would most likely not support it.

The owners of the site should listen to both subscribers, and non-subscribers, as those who have not subscribed yet are potential to become subscribers, and also visitors.

Around 360 Subscribers (1 + 2), around 225,000 registered users

Wow, well done, editor-in-chief lol

Shane Pitman said,
I find it both humorous and ironic that those complaining aren't subscribers, yet presume that they have some "right" to tell even the owners of the site what they have the right to post or not, while those that are subscribers can see the value of editorial pieces, as well as the true statistics of Neowin and our competitors over the course of history, and not just an ill-informed and under-explained chart. To add to that, quite a lot of those complaining have extensive histories of behavioral problems here, so one must take their anti-Neowin rants with a grain of salt.

It seems that whenever an opportunity to bash Neowin arises we can always count on "the usual suspects" and that while they continue to present the opinion that Neowin is somehow deteriorating (yet continue to visit themselves), we continue to strive to improve, and continue to attract new members, increase visitors, our traffic increases, and our rankings among our peers continues to climb. I'm sorry, your footing is shaky, and your rage is misguided.


So we have to pay to voice our opinion?

Intresting.

Deathray and epilepsy, his points all stand - the vast majority of people that visit this site like how it's being run. If you don't like it, you don't have to stick around. It's as simple as that. There's just a handful of you that sit and b***h about it and that's far more of a problem than anything you complain about.

Sad truth is, a lot of these 'subscribers' are the ones doing all the damage. They figure their pretty colored username or tag under their names in forums gives them the right to.

I fail to see what being a subscriber has to do with anything. There just as many pretty colored bad apples as there are regular ones.

I'd have to agree with azcodemonkey just a few posts above. I also don't fly-by as frequent due to all the bickering and who has the bigger witt-stick.

I wouldn't agree with the assertion that the opinions of subscribers somehow become more valid because they have donated some money, but I would agree that the site is better for the editorials. Whilst it is true that some are better than others, they make an interesting addition to a site, and in my opinion make Neowin better than most other websites that just regurgitate each other's news.

Deathray said,
Hey genius

You would think that subscribers, people that are paying, would be supportive of the current environment, which is why they're probably supporting the site?

One would also imagine that people who are not satisfied with the site would most likely not support it.

The owners of the site should listen to both subscribers, and non-subscribers, as those who have not subscribed yet are potential to become subscribers, and also visitors.

Around 360 Subscribers (1 + 2), around 225,000 registered users

Wow, well done, editor-in-chief lol


10% of the active members logged in to Neowin are subscribers. It would be great if we actually had 225,000 active registered members on the site every day but you'll find it's closer to 400 with far more guests at anyone time.

The 360 subscribers is a constant since we launched it btw (about 4 years ago) so 360 at anyone time in that period is quite good and can be considered quite active!

epilepsynweed said,

So we have to pay to voice our opinion?

Intresting.

No, you missed the point entirely. The people who do nothing but persistently complain about Neowin, and aren't contributing anything to Neowin, seem to have the opinion that they have the right to demand what is or isn't displayed on the front page by the people who invest both money and time into operating the site. It's silly.

Deathray said,
Hey genius

You would think that subscribers, people that are paying, would be supportive of the current environment, which is why they're probably supporting the site?

One would also imagine that people who are not satisfied with the site would most likely not support it.

The owners of the site should listen to both subscribers, and non-subscribers, as those who have not subscribed yet are potential to become subscribers, and also visitors.

Around 360 Subscribers (1 + 2), around 225,000 registered users

Wow, well done, editor-in-chief lol

Why would staff listen to people who can't behave and follow the rules? That's absurd. Those who fit in with the community and participate on a positive level don't have a problem with the way things are run. The majority of the people who complain can't conform to the rules and feel they have to lash out at every given opportunity.

GreyWolfSC said,
How did you "try" to subscribe and fail? You pay with PayPal and give them your Neowin user name. That's it. :)

I don't have access to PayPal or any other dandy modern system. Just the good ol' reliable Western Union money transfers, which only accept individual receivers. Not Neowin LLC.

Shane Pitman said,
Why would staff listen to people who can't behave and follow the rules? That's absurd. Those who fit in with the community and participate on a positive level don't have a problem with the way things are run. The majority of the people who complain can't conform to the rules and feel they have to lash out at every given opportunity.


Not sure i'd agree with that assessment. Troublemakers generally tend to be a bit more dissenting because they don't fear being banned, ordinary members who value their membership a bit more generally tend to keep quiet for fear of bans or warnings.

I don't have any problems with Neowin myself, but there does appear to be a prevalence amongst a fair few of Neowin's staff to react pretty violently and aggressively to people who post criticism (constructive or otherwise), and I feel that probably puts some people off sharing their opinions.

Frank Fontaine said,
Not sure i'd agree with that assessment. Troublemakers generally tend to be a bit more dissenting because they don't fear being banned, ordinary members who value their membership a bit more generally tend to keep quiet for fear of bans or warnings.

I don't have any problems with Neowin myself, but there does appear to be a prevalence amongst a fair few of Neowin's staff to react pretty violently and aggressively to people who post criticism (constructive or otherwise), and I feel that probably puts some people off sharing their opinions.


It's not the necessarily the fact the member is complaining, it's how they go about complaining and the medium they use. Why not contact a higher-up staff member privately to make a suggestion or discuss their issue? The PM system is available to everyone who hasn't abused it. Why post their grievances in the comments section of news articles, bringing the discussion off-topic and making it much less meaningful? There's no need for it, whatsoever.

Like Shane said though, it's mostly people who have had behavioral problems in the past and are bitter because of the action taken.

C.J said,
Why not contact a higher-up staff member privately to make a suggestion or discuss their issue?

From what I experienced all these years... it's useless.

Shane Pitman said,
Why would staff listen to people who can't behave and follow the rules? That's absurd. Those who fit in with the community and participate on a positive level don't have a problem with the way things are run. The majority of the people who complain can't conform to the rules and feel they have to lash out at every given opportunity.

Neowin requires that members respect the decision of moderators.

Threads and posts questioning the actions or decisions of forum moderations will be deleted on sight, and the appropriate action taken (up to and including forum bans) against the thread starter and/or participants. However, as a member you reserve the right to PM any moderator or administrator regarding action taken at Neowin.

Neowin reserves the right to change or alter these rules at any time and an Administrator's word is final.

So, its pretty hard to follow those rules, simply is give broad capabilities and power to the admin and moderator.

i.e. find a moderator in a bad mood and you are done.

Of course, subscribers are a different kind of users, think some sort of rules applied to noblemen vs peasant.

Magallanes said,

So, its pretty hard to follow those rules, simply is give broad capabilities and power to the admin and moderator.

i.e. find a moderator in a bad mood and you are done.

Of course, subscribers are a different kind of users, think some sort of rules applied to noblemen vs peasant.


I can name several cases where a member has gotten themselves in trouble and the decision has been reviewed by senior staff and overturned, even recently.

My earlier statements still stand, concerning the people who cry foul the most are the people who can't follow the rules and have repeatedly gotten themselves in trouble. And subscribers aren't immune to punishment. There are many who have received warnings.

I find it both humorous and ironic that those complaining aren't subscribers..

And therein lies a major part of the problem. You seem to see non-subscribers as second-class citizens with fewer 'rights' to expectations from Neowin. You, and other staff members seem to be blinkered to any view that goes against what you want to believe - that readership is up, quality is improving, etc. You can say those things all week long, but that will never make it true.

The quality of your news content has declined and I am as amazed that you guys can't see that as you probably are that I can see it. It's now become far more opinion based than it ever was when you pulled content in from elsewhere. That in itself is no crime of course, but we're now at the point where the opinions stated tend to be rehashes of previous opinion pieces, sometimes even from the same author, and just a few weeks apart from each other.

It is no secret that I have never really liked the way you guys run the site, but, despite that, I always came in day in and day out to get the technology news. These days, I wonder if I come even three times a week (primarily because I want news, not opinion). The fact is that other sites are now racing ahead of you in terms of content quality, even if not in popularity. There is only long that you can stick your head in the sand and tell each other that you're doing a really great job. You're not.

You may now continue to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter, I'm a rebel, or I shouldn't come at all if that is how I feel. Anything you like really, but none of it will change anything for the better. Stop seeing everything as a personal attack and try to look at things objectively.

SniperX said,
And therein lies a major part of the problem. You seem to see non-subscribers as second-class citizens with fewer 'rights' to expectations from Neowin. You, and other staff members seem to be blinkered to any view that goes against what you want to believe - that readership is up, quality is improving, etc. You can say those things all week long, but that will never make it true.

The quality of your news content has declined and I am as amazed that you guys can't see that as you probably are that I can see it. It's now become far more opinion based than it ever was when you pulled content in from elsewhere. That in itself is no crime of course, but we're now at the point where the opinions stated tend to be rehashes of previous opinion pieces, sometimes even from the same author, and just a few weeks apart from each other.

It is no secret that I have never really liked the way you guys run the site, but, despite that, I always came in day in and day out to get the technology news. These days, I wonder if I come even three times a week (primarily because I want news, not opinion). The fact is that other sites are now racing ahead of you in terms of content quality, even if not in popularity. There is only long that you can stick your head in the sand and tell each other that you're doing a really great job. You're not.

You may now continue to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter, I'm a rebel, or I shouldn't come at all if that is how I feel. Anything you like really, but none of it will change anything for the better. Stop seeing everything as a personal attack and try to look at things objectively.

And again, the people crying foul the most are the people that have a history of behavior problems. I in no way suggested that non-subscribers were second class to anyone here. I merely stated that the PROBLEM USERS, those who can't follow the rules and thus contribute nothing to the community but grief, seem to think that they have the right to demand anything of those who DO follow the rules, contribute positively AND of those who donate their time or those who have significant financial investments in the site.

Why should anyone listen to people who do nothing but cause trouble and grief for the staff and the members who do follow the rules and contribute positively to the site?

Shane Pitman said,
And again, the people crying foul the most are the people that have a history of behavior problems. I in no way suggested that non-subscribers were second class to anyone here. I merely stated that the PROBLEM USERS, those who can't follow the rules and thus contribute nothing to the community but grief, seem to think that they have the right to demand anything of those who DO follow the rules, contribute positively AND of those who donate their time or those who have significant financial investments in the site.

Why should anyone listen to people who do nothing but cause trouble and grief for the staff and the members who do follow the rules and contribute positively to the site?


It strikes me that you are clinging to this notion of "behaviour problems" as an excuse to just discard any opinion that you don't like or that doesn't sit comfortably alongside your own.

I don't see anyone *demanding* anything. You are choosing to perceive it that way because you feel that every comment which disagrees with your own is a personal attack. For as long as that is the case, we're all wasting our time.

SniperX said,

It strikes me that you are clinging to this notion of "behaviour problems" as an excuse to just discard any opinion that you don't like or that doesn't sit comfortably alongside your own.

I don't see anyone *demanding* anything. You are choosing to perceive it that way because you feel that every comment which disagrees with your own is a personal attack. For as long as that is the case, we're all wasting our time.


One group of users, group x is this big >_<, while another group, group y is this big >__________<. Group x causes problems all the time, can't behave and is always in trouble, always creating negativity among the community. Group y never causes problems, never gets in trouble, and contributes positively to the community. And you think each group deserves equal attention?

Group x is already getting extra attention because of the amount of effort spent on dealing with them. But by your logic we should not only give them the extra attention, we should value their opinion equally. Society doesn't work that way.

Shane Pitman said,
And you think each group deserves equal attention?

I don't think you really care what I think, or what anyone else thinks, for that matter (unless they agree with you that all is great). In fact, you've made that abundantly clear throughout this entire topic.

I can't quite see why you bother when your view is so narrow-minded and so obstinate. You clearly came here with a view to disagreeing with anyone who had anything to say but "well done guys, all is rosy".

That you don't (a) see the childishness in that (while at the same time decrying others for being unreasonable) or don't see how that affects a site you allege to care about, is quite beyond me. I give in, that's for sure.

I've been here since before the db reset, and I would have to say that it _IS_ the editorial pieces that makes NeoWin such a great community site.

In my browser, I have 2 tabs set to open automatically, Google and NeoWin. What else does one need? :~)

I don't understand people's problem with the opinion pieces. They're very clearly labeled as such on their frontpage posting, so if you don't like them, skip over them. It's not like the frontpage is ever cluttered with them.

Been with neowin since 2003 and it's all been pretty great. I definitely enjoy all the work the staff does.

I've been here since 2002, and I have to say I visit much less frequently due to the poor quality of forum posts and constant bickering of the fanboys. It's juvenile to say the least. But, maybe I am wearing rose-tinted glasses.

Guess I'm one of the select few, who actually like reading the opinion/editorial pieces that get posted. Granted I sometimes don't agree with all thats being said in them (ie. the "Mac user: Don't underestimate the case" one that was recently posted) but that doesn't give me a reason for going around saying there crap.

Heres to another nine years neowin :)

Oh and this aug. will make my 5th year on neowin. Joined 20-August-04.

Man I've been here since 03, it sure doesn't feel like that long. I haven't been posting as much but i'm always watching ;).

The problem aren't the articles, whether they're fact or opinionated, the mature and open-minded will always take something positive and constructive from it.

The problem lies within the responses. A lot of the newer or more the recent wave of members cant help but trash topics/articles simply for the reason that it baits others into an argument that in return gives them a chance to boost their post count e-peen.

In all honesty, IMO a lot of this comes from the whole post count/rank/titles system. It's crack to kids now-a-days. They're like damn achievement points. Rid this and you rid off a considerate amount of trash responses.

All in all, I love this place. I give much praise to Neobond and Staff for remembering our roots, "where unprofessional journalism looks better". :)

oh.. joined 22-March 02 for whatever its worth. I Have an 01 accnt but couldnt remember it for the life of me.

I have to agree with this, although I don't know that I've been reading for long enough to know what it was like before those types of responses began. It seems that almost every single Apple or Linux story will receive at least one comment about how "Macs suck, Windows roolz" or "Linux sucks, Windows is better." People then complain (as they are here) that the pieces submitted were too opinionated and belong in a blog instead.

Maybe some of the pieces are very opinionated - but the comments that follow are much more so, and much more incendiary. I've seen some very mature, knowledgeable people post in the comments, but the number of garbage, childish, insulting comments are much greater. Lately I've noticed that the Neowin staff have been editing some posts to remove what I'd imagine were blatantly rude, insulting comments, and I commend them for that. I wouldn't mind it if they took it a step farther and started editing and/or deleting posts that would clearly lead to those sorts of nonsensical comments.

My issue with opinion pieces is that they belong in blogs, blogs that Neowin itself provides. I come here for actual news/developments, not a persons take on set developments

Neowin has been my homepage for a very long time; however, the amount of useful information I get from this site has been steadily declining.

Yes, I don't expect multi-page stories, or stories filled with charts and graphs, but I do expect some real information. Sorry, but I just don't see enough of this real information. A lot of the frontpage news I see now is on hot topics within society, and Neowin is simply trying to cash in on those events by posting their opinions about it, and then watching as the comments get heated. Congrats, you've got a "Hot" story, but the story you provide, lacks the details or real information that can be found elsewhere. I understand Neowin wants to make a profit, but how about putting a few news pieces that actually are indepth, or at least try to explore an issue.

Why don't I write for Neowin, and fix what I'm b******g (surprised the filter doesn't filter that word) about? I don't have the time, or interest to do so. You could say I should stop complaining, but my intention is to help Neowin become a better place, as opposed to the direction it's heading.

I think the true strength of Neowin remains the forums, and that's a shame because the frontpage could be something useful beyond leaks, unconfirmed, or 4-5 short paragraph pieces of information. I'd also say that the information that is posted is a rehash of information found elsewhere. It seems like a sham when I've read similar things hours before, and then I find them popping up on Neowin.

Why come to Neowin when you can find more legitimate information elsewhere? That's the issue I'm facing now

I there:

I am a users since 29-October 01 and i think the same.

I loved neowin when it was a content creator, a place where you can find novelty news.

I tried (a couple of years ago) to publish a news without even received a rejected email. The funny part is some other guys published the same news weeks later. Since then, i found that there is something very root on neowin and apparently is still in.

Excluding the lack of common sense, i think neowin is still fine but you can find almost the same info in several other places.

tiagosilva29 said,
Joined: 2004/05/08 and still against the system.

Lol

but yes, was good but now is declining, and the solution is not to blame users (blame users and/or customer usually is a bad sign whatsoever).

Hey hi fellows.................. It was back in 2006 i.e mid of 2006 when i first saw this web page...... it was just a Google search...... its been straight 3yrs... reading every article on this page.... but the funny thing is that this May i officially got myself registered as a active user. Its been nice to be around here.. listening to other users...... comments.... Neowin is like my daily breakfast.. news.... of teck info............. But wht i really wld like to have a change in Neowin.. wld be a video blog..............Go Neowin................ Go Neowin..............................

neowin has now a excellent community. i have been reading here since a quite long even though joined community quite late. it should revamp its main news page articles now by atleast not posting such as
"Mac user: Don't underestimate the case"
"Why Macs look like Porsche's". etc etc.
recent technet subscription fiasco has also hurt its image.

I like opinion articles even if I don't agree with them they make me think about my own opinions and provide another person's view on things.

Joined: 1-December 01

And still loving this place Though, I haven't posted frequently, and sometimes don't log in for a semi-long period of time - I still visit and read!

Neowin is good site. I would like to see even more news on hardware, software, etc... More prize giveaways especially for peoples with limited income ie. disabled, handicapped, seeing impaired, etc... Just keep up the good work and keep it coming on as fast and accurate as possible. Great job so far, congrats to all the staff and members!!

Personally, I don't have a problem with opinion pieces because I respect the opinions of others. I feel that other people should do so as well. Sure, the article may be a little biased and [insert company here]-centric. But if it's the opinion of the author, then so be it. After all, the whole point of an editorial is for an author to state an opinion or give a perspective on something.

I don't normally say this but people shouldn't comment at all if they're going to personally attack the author or other members. Write your comment in a courteous manner, even if you don't like what you read. Perhaps then, Neowin will be an even better place. I'm saying this because I read the articles as well as the comments made by other members. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I read comments like "This article is poor. It should be deleted/removed right away." or "How is this news worthy?"

I've been a member since May '04 and I've seen my fair share of articles, posts, and comments. Overall, I'd say that Neowin has improved a lot since then. It's a much better place now with great members (and staff). It's always nice to participate in discussions regarding Microsoft's next operating system or Michael Bay's next movie. I really can't think of any website that I've visited as often as Neowin.

Anyway, hiring news posters was a step in the right direction. It makes things even more interesting.

This entire post on the front page reads like an excuse piece for the recent trend in poor quality garbage posted on the front page. Instead of making excuses, why not look at the problem and resolve it? Get rid of the sensationalism, get rid of the pro-software piracy pieces designed to get traffic, get rid of posting known inaccurate or dodgy material, get rid of the ridiculous mac vs. pc fanboy stuff... the list goes on and on.

Also, instead of quoting your web rank based on Technorati, why not use a whole-of-web ranking site like Alexa, which clearly shows your decline:

"I think in our 9th year I can proudly claim that we have given you the community, most of what was asked of us, within reason."

The mark of a truly great site is that it gives the users what they need, not just what they want. People "want" all sorts of silly, stupid, fickle, meaningless garbage. A good site is discerning and provides quality information, even if sometimes it's not what people want to hear. Otherwise why doesn't Neowin just turn itself into something like Perez Hilton's site? His popularity surely is a sign of "what people want"...

Sadly, Neowin is turning into a pale shadow of itself as it seems to be struggling to find new ways of attracting traffic at the cost of quality. I honestly don't know why I come here anymore, I suppose I live in hope of the remote possibility that things might turn around, but I'm constantly disappointed day after day by the crap I see posted here.

All that graph clearly shows me is that there was a major decline in 2008 and that things are clearly turning around in 2009.

aarste said,
To the OP: are you aware the graph is in reverse? The dip in the graph is the increase in traffic, rather than the opposite.


No, you sir are incorrect. The graph shows a "rank," which as we all know, has a 1st place, 2nd place... and so forth. When you take a dip from 5000th place to 15,000+place, you have gone down. This is not page views.

On another note, I don't mind the opinion articles, they give me something to read in between W7 news! Love the site!

I can get from that graph is that people who (are dumb enough to) install (crap like) the alexa toolbar on their computer, have stopped visiting for a few months. Good.

I'm getting completely different data from Alexa. I see an 18% rise in reach for Neowin over a 3 month period, a rise in time-on-site and pageviews/user by 7%, a 26% rise in overall pageviews, and by your own graph Neowin has gone up in traffic rank by 1321 over the same 3 month period. (When you rank something, the lower number the better.)

If you compare Neowin to other major tech news sites we have risen to a much greater degree.

You have to put that Alexa chart into prospective, if you compare our stats with technology sites of similar size, we all had some wild fluctuations. Our monthly unique traffic stats as well as many other tracking systems are inline with what Steve has pointed out to you all.

Actually the graph is reasonably simple to interpret. It only shows around the past year or so of activity (the maximum view possible on Alexa). It shows that Neowin clearly declined from around the 5,000 position to around the 20,000 position in rank - this is mainly due to a serious decline in quality I would suspect. Then around April 2009 the trend has reversed, it has gone back up to around the 7,000 rank - this is from the more sensationalist articles designed to get traffic I believe, that's the only thing that would explain the sudden rise (certainly not a dramatic increase in quality, that's for sure).

In any case the graph wasn't the aim of my post, I only posted that to show that Neowin has declined over the past year. Traffic is not a good gauge of quality, which is precisely my point. Neowin has reclaimed some of its lost traffic at a massive cost to its overall quality. When you post leaked fraudulent "free" Technet subscription stories, or the constant sensationalist Mac or Windows 7 stories with minimal facts and maximum controversy, of course you will get more traffic.

I'm simply naive enough to think the owners of Neowin actually want to be proud of the site they run based on its quality and accuracy rather than its popularity. Of course I could be sorely mistaken, after all I don't run this site so I can't assume that its owners and administrators actually want a quality site. Indications at the moment are that they don't - they just seem to want traffic and income, which of course is their prerogative.

7Dash8 said,
Actually the graph is reasonably simple to interpret. It only shows around the past year or so of activity (the maximum view possible on Alexa). It shows that Neowin clearly declined from around the 5,000 position to around the 20,000 position in rank - this is mainly due to a serious decline in quality I would suspect. Then around April 2009 the trend has reversed, it has gone back up to around the 7,000 rank - this is from the more sensationalist articles designed to get traffic I believe, that's the only thing that would explain the sudden rise (certainly not a dramatic increase in quality, that's for sure).

In any case the graph wasn't the aim of my post, I only posted that to show that Neowin has declined over the past year. Traffic is not a good gauge of quality, which is precisely my point. Neowin has reclaimed some of its lost traffic at a massive cost to its overall quality. When you post leaked fraudulent "free" Technet subscription stories, or the constant sensationalist Mac or Windows 7 stories with minimal facts and maximum controversy, of course you will get more traffic.

I'm simply naive enough to think the owners of Neowin actually want to be proud of the site they run based on its quality and accuracy rather than its popularity. Of course I could be sorely mistaken, after all I don't run this site so I can't assume that its owners and administrators actually want a quality site. Indications at the moment are that they don't - they just seem to want traffic and income, which of course is their prerogative.

You truly have no idea.. We've spent a lot of time working with our improved news staff to improve quality and original content. We are no longer a copy and paste site. We've gotten better not worse.

If you could see what goes on behind the scenes, on how hard everyone works to keep the site going as well as it it, you'd understand we're improving, not getting worse.

Were still new to original content, but as time goes on we will continue to get better.

"You truly have no idea.. We've spent a lot of time working with our improved news staff to improve quality and original content. We are no longer a copy and paste site. We've gotten better not worse."

No, I have a very clear idea; I can see what is posted on the front page and I am telling you that the quality has declined, not improved.

You may well be putting in a lot of effort behind the scenes, I'm not disputing the work involved. I am talking about quality, and I'm amazed you would consider some of the editorials which take up space on the front page to be an improvement.

Original content does not equate to getting people to post all sorts of sensationalist opinion pieces. It's not hard to write a mediocre opinion piece; even easier to write one which causes controversy. The trick is to write an informed and genuinely throught-provoking piece, which I rarely see on Neowin.

Anyway take my feedback as you will. I was trying to be constructive and not just attack or defend the site blindly.

7Dash8 said,
"You truly have no idea.. We've spent a lot of time working with our improved news staff to improve quality and original content. We are no longer a copy and paste site. We've gotten better not worse."

No, I have a very clear idea; I can see what is posted on the front page and I am telling you that the quality has declined, not improved.

You may well be putting in a lot of effort behind the scenes, I'm not disputing the work involved. I am talking about quality, and I'm amazed you would consider some of the editorials which take up space on the front page to be an improvement.

Original content does not equate to getting people to post all sorts of sensationalist opinion pieces. It's not hard to write a mediocre opinion piece; even easier to write one which causes controversy. The trick is to write an informed and genuinely throught-provoking piece, which I rarely see on Neowin.

Anyway take my feedback as you will. I was trying to be constructive and not just attack or defend the site blindly.

Well we have a "Report a Problem" feature, members should use it. We take all feedback seriously.

Marshalus said,
You have to put that Alexa chart into prospective, if you compare our stats with technology sites of similar size, we all had some wild fluctuations. Our monthly unique traffic stats as well as many other tracking systems are inline with what Steve has pointed out to you all.

Here is one from Google:


Red = Neowin
Blue = Guru3D (Neowins Competitior)

The lines right at the bottom shows News References from 3rd Party sites linking to either Neowin or Guru3D. It is evident that Neowin gets linked to quite a lot but that its declining somehow.

Search volume index is hardly a good statistic? The news reference is the one you should be looking at because that shows reach. I guess you see what you want to see tho eh?

Guru3D is hardly a competitor btw, I thought their main focus was on hardware and drivers, ours clearly isn't!

Might want to recompare those stats with the likes of ActiveWin, Bink.nu, Techspot.com or Betanews for example.

Neobond said,
Search volume index is hardly a good statistic? The news reference is the one you should be looking at because that shows reach. I guess you see what you want to see tho eh?

Guru3D is hardly a competitor btw, I thought their main focus was on hardware and drivers, ours clearly isn't!

Might want to recompare those stats with the likes of ActiveWin, Bink.nu, Techspot.com or Betanews for example.

I think someone is getting angry.. Perhaps I touched a nerve. This and other ranks show Neowin in decline. guru3D focuses on all Tech related news just like Neowin does and it has a bustling Forum just like Neowin. But they expanded to do Technology Reviews and offer downloadable services, Neowin didn't really. Also I noticed a lot of vets here lately dunno what that is about.

Also I've never even heard of ActiveWin, Bink.nu, Techspot.com or Betanews. But I suppose the 'See what you want to see tho eh?' comment is apt when your comparing your well known site with ones no ones ever heard of.

Vice said,

I think someone is getting angry.. Perhaps I touched a nerve. This and other ranks show Neowin in decline. guru3D focuses on all Tech related news just like Neowin does and it has a bustling Forum just like Neowin. But they expanded to do Technology Reviews and offer downloadable services, Neowin didn't really. Also I noticed a lot of vets here lately dunno what that is about.

Also I've never even heard of ActiveWin, Bink.nu, Techspot.com or Betanews. But I suppose the 'See what you want to see tho eh?' comment is apt when your comparing your well known site with ones no ones ever heard of.

Sounds like you're the one out of the loop. Of all of the events that I've been invited to attend by companies like HP, AMD, etc. the other sites also invited were sites like ActiveWin, Bink.nu, etc.. and I've never seen anyone from guru3D at any of them. No offense to guru3D, just trying to prove a point.

I have been a member here since 10/2001 and this is the only site I have been a member of for this long. It is my first and only stop for tech information!

I have been reading neowin for about 5 years and it has been a brilliant source of information. Although I have semi-recently moved onto reading the RSS feeds instead rather than visit the front page.

Funny, I beat ya' with a full days margin which entitles met o a low 409

I've been coming here every day that I am in front of a computer... and that sums up to a lot of visits! I still remember the horror feeling back when the site was offline a lot due to hosting problems etc. Promise to never do that again! :D

This site has always been an outstanding place to buff up on all the tech info needed. A big hand goes out to the community here since it's in the forums that Neowin truly shines compared to other sites!

Joined 8-August 01
Member No.: 436

You beat me probably by 30 minutes lol.
Got linked to this site from the ieXbeta boards back in the day when I was following XP development.

Only 102 posts after all these years, but I lurk almost daily!

Neowin has turned out to be the finest source of news and information on the net. Many a people like me make it a point to visit it reqularly, and contribute where we can. A little bit of baiting or flaming (either way) is alright, as it just spices up things a bit. ;)

Congratulations to the Neowin team for evolving in the right direction.

HappyAndyK said,
Neowin has turned out to be the finest source of news and information on the net. Many a people like me make it a point to visit it reqularly, and contribute where we can. A little bit of baiting or flaming (either way) is alright, as it just spices up things a bit. ;)

Congratulations to the Neowin team for evolving in the right direction.



Dig it!!
(Sign of age)

Neowin is my most visited site since 2001, there's this special flavor to the news you can't find anywhere else on the web, so yeah Long life to Neowin!

Although I dont post as much as other members, I visit Neowin daily and find it for the best part pretty good. Having joined many a dog hairs age ago. I have seen the changes with Neowin daily over the period and for the best part think its for the better. Although I still see stories that headline as orginal and are well not... but what can you do? This Neowin has been my home page for 8 years and likely will not change any time soon. Keep up the good work