A closer look at the Windows 8 sales figures

Microsoft has now given us three data points relating to Windows 8 sales and we have plotted the sales points to offer up a visual representation of the sales figures that Microsoft has released.

To date, Microsoft has told us that it has sold 4 million copies of Windows 8 after three days, 40 million copies after 30 days and now 60 million copies after approximately 72 days of being on the market. The graph below represents these data points on a simple line graph with the Y Axis representing each data point given by Microsoft.

Using the same data, we can extract out the average sales per day with the chart below. While there is a sharp drop after the thirty day window post launch, this is to be expected as many OEMs purchased a large quantity of licenses before the holiday shopping season.  The graph below represents these data points on a simple line graph with the Y Axis representing each data point given by Microsoft.

What we are waiting to see is how well Windows 8 will continue to sell now that the holiday shopping season has come to an end. Seeing that many consumers likely purchased devices for the holidays, there may be a lull in activity post Christmas. 

We will continue to update these charts as Microsoft gives us more information so that we can track the sales progress of the platform. For Microsoft, it is extremely important to keep touting the sales success of Windows 8 as it looks to keep a positive image with the general public. Considering that Windows 8 introduces several dramatically different UI features, if Microsoft loses public appeal, it could put a significant dent in the amount of consumers willing to trying out the company's latest OS.

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I don't believe for a minute that Windows 8 is selling that well. At least not for Desktop systems. I won't install Windows 8 even if they offered it for free.

Isn't this data wrong? 4 million figure was for upgrades only, whilst 40million and 60 million was for upgrades & OEMs.

Feel free to correct me if I got that wrong.

"What we are waiting to see is how well Windows 8 will continue to sell now that the holiday shopping season has come to an end. "

This is a perfect example of the small mindedness that's destroying Western society and driving the world's epicentre East. Chinese New Year is February 9th. China doesn't do Xmas. In case you forgot, China is bigger than the EU and USA combined.

PS. Thanks for all the money and keep sending the jobs over here.

Its great for tablets etc but how many of the 60 million sales are traditional desktop sales. That would be more interesting than just 60 million sales as Windows 7 sales where for desktop computers only and therefore more accurate I reckon.

Still no breakdown of oem sales, same old dishonest crap from the microsft/Ballmer lying machine, and as usual the zealots but right in to it.

Order_66 said,
Still no breakdown of oem sales, same old dishonest crap from the microsft/Ballmer lying machine, and as usual the zealots but right in to it.

That's not Microsoft's issue. OEM sales are confidential, and if the OEM wants to release them, THEY and only they alone will release them.

Never worked in retail, did you?

Order_66 said,
Still no breakdown of oem sales, same old dishonest crap from the microsft/Ballmer lying machine, and as usual the zealots but right in to it.

Doesn't understand how anything works.

Dot Matrix said,

That's not Microsoft's issue. OEM sales are confidential, and if the OEM wants to release them, THEY and only they alone will release them.

Never worked in retail, did you?

I have been a manager in retail for the past 12 years, are you trying to tell me that microsoft doesn't even know who they sell their product to?

The good thing about windows8 is that they already have a way to add in the old start menu if needed. Just release a windows 8 start menu add on at $9 that uses the add in key thing that gives you media center.

Windows 8 problem is there is no reason to upgrade to it from windows 7. Most people and companies do not game so the lack of certain direct x dlls has no effect .

I am an IT admin and there is no reason for me to upgrade our machines from windows 7. NOt a single thing in windows 8 that We need that windows 7 does not have.

I can see us buying a couple of windows 8 tablets but desktop wise no reason to upgrade.

IT admins say the same thing with every version of Windows released. What if quality enterprise apps are increasingly developed exclusively for Windows Store though? Creates an original problem for laggards that never existed on previous Windows versions. With software increasingly being built around touch it also creates an original incentive to upgrade hardware. You may buy a few tablets, then your company builds some tablet apps then decides you need to upgrade the rest of the machines to touch OS and hardware as well. Touch monitors, touch pads, and touch mice are relatively cheap and easy to deploy as is Windows 8.

majortom1981 said
Windows 8 problem is there is no reason to upgrade to it from windows 7. Most people and companies do not game so the lack of certain direct x dlls has no effect.
So, in your case, improvements to the security, stability, performance (overall, not just in games), resource/memory management, and (for some) boot/shutdown times does't prove enough to you that it's worth the upgrade..

Has anyone noticed that Neowin have spelt their own name wrong on the bottom right of the chart, it's currently shown as neowi.net. lol

I was very much against Windows 8 (I mostly hated Metro) before buying it. Still don't use Metro for much, spend about 99% on the desktop.
All in all it feels slightly faster than Windows 7 and yes, it is rock solid so far.

This mirrors my experience. I do see a market for content consumption apps that are well designed in the Modern UI. There's just aren't that many yet. I think eventually the desktop environment may become a downloadable app instead of default core app or and Enterprise Add-on. Something like XP-Mode in Windows 7. Available for those who need it. The future will be interesting with regards to the Modern UI. Without MDI, the Desktop Environment will never die.

Windows was designed with Metro in mind (even though they changed the name). Metro was designed as the first step in attempting to deprecate the desktop and desktop applications in favour of Metro.

The difference between Metro and Windows desktop is that Metro represents an entirely new business model - a closed-system where Microsoft have absolute control over the applications that are available. Developers need to pay fees to Microsoft just for the privilage of having their software there, plus a percentage of the revenue. Everything is subject the approval of Microsoft. Compare this to the desktop interface which we are all used to, for which anyone can develop, produce, market and distrubute software. Even causal developers can produce freeware for it. No restrictions. Windows desktop is a platform that most of us take for granted.

Right now it's still possible to use a desktop in Windows 8, but those who praise Windows 8 are perhaps overlooking or don't care about the more sinister side of what it means for the future of the PC and the development community. What you're ultimate advocating when you defend Windows 8 is a move towards a controlled and restricted platform, designed solely to make Microsoft even more richer and powerful, instead of the a free and open-ended platform which we are all used to and which everyone can benefit from.

Microsoft want to see an end to the deskto, because it is at odds with their new business model which allows them to cash in developers hard work. The only thing preventing them from ending the desktop outright is the fact that people would rebel, so they do it slowly and sneakily, using as much leverage as they dare.

Again, oems need to release hardware they keep teasing....we want 1080p screens on laptops where the screen detaches to be used as a tablet.

Futile arguments. Windows 8 is the current version of Windows. The OS for the dominant PC OS. Windows 8 will sell, a lot. Whether people like it, hate it, use it, or downgrade it. That's just the way it is.

Enterprises are most likely to purchase and downgrade. Those buying touch devices obviously will not. Those who really have no clue about Metro, Modern UI, whether Modern Search sucks or not, etc. won't care. They'll just use their PC to browsed the web, play music, and send email. Most of those things will be easier for novices on a Windows 8 PC.

It's people who actually use PCs, a lot, and are knowledgeable that will see Windows 8's shortcomings, and most will also see the improvements in Windows 8 (Desktop Environment), others can easily downgrade.

Windows 8 will sell, whether or not it will be loved, remains to be seen and as far as PC sales go, it doesn't matter. Tablets and the battle for the hearts and minds of consumers, now love may matter there. Just ask Apple.

MorganX said,
Futile arguments. Windows 8 is the current version of Windows. The OS for the dominant PC OS. Windows 8 will sell, a lot. Whether people like it, hate it, use it, or downgrade it. That's just the way it is.

Enterprises are most likely to purchase and downgrade. Those buying touch devices obviously will not. Those who really have no clue about Metro, Modern UI, whether Modern Search sucks or not, etc. won't care. They'll just use their PC to browsed the web, play music, and send email. Most of those things will be easier for novices on a Windows 8 PC.

It's people who actually use PCs, a lot, and are knowledgeable that will see Windows 8's shortcomings, and most will also see the improvements in Windows 8 (Desktop Environment), others can easily downgrade.

Windows 8 will sell, whether or not it will be loved, remains to be seen and as far as PC sales go, it doesn't matter. Tablets and the battle for the hearts and minds of consumers, now love may matter there. Just ask Apple.

Why are they likely to downgrade? So many Enterprises I know are now beginning to author Windows Store Apps.

Bad phrasing. Not that they are likely to downgrade, but of those who will downgrade, most likely Enterprises.

As an IT Manager do I think users are likely to downgrade, yes. Most large IT depts. won't run to upgrade to Windows 8 with the significance of the changes. These things take planning and budgeting. In static environments where users get a PC and use 1-3 static apps, yes. In more dynamic environments with many departments and business communities with diverse workforces, leaderships and budgets, just not realistic. Same reason many are just now rolling out Windows 7.

Anyone in the type of enterprise that is now rolling out custom Modern UI apps is probably in an environment that can get away with rolling out a new OS, with a significant new UX less than 3 months old. I'm going to say most are not.

The sales per day chart implies a curved total sales chart (and a rather odd looking curve at that) and not the two straight lines that reflect the actual data. My point being that there's really not enough resolution in the data to comment on how "sharp" the decline in sales is. We can say from the first chart that there is a definite decline in the rate of sales, but that's really all we can say. I'd recommend holding off on sales per day charts until you have more data. Derivatives from data points are a tricky tricky thing. (Also, using an XY Plot with a line style instead of a Line Chart will let you put varying horizontal space between the data points)

Xenon said,
Are the numbers that Microsoft released licenses or are they computers in actual use?

MSFT sells licenses. In fact, they don't even sell licenses, their VARs and LARs sell licenses. The only way to determine if it went to a PC or an Enterprise is by the VAR/LAR type. Even then, we don't know if the Enterprise "rolled out" Win8 or if the OEM sold it to a Retailer and that Retailer sold it to a Customer.

Everyone wants more information but even more information isn't going to give you want you want. MSFT was slammed for Monopolistic Practices which caused much of this obfuscation. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If MSFT were pricing its software and selling it again, you could have this info but then haters would cry.

Ultimately all this is meaningless number churning. the fact remains MSFT got paid for the sales in the same way it got paid for windows 7 sales. Windows 7 used the same metric on sales so it is not as if windows 8 is somehow "cheating".

lastly, sales are expected to drop as the shopping season is over. expect them to pick back up in the summer and fall specially during the back to school season in America. Hopefully a lot of the devices we saw at CES will be out by then.

If the sales were good microsoft would announce what win7 had sold in this timeframe too. So many of the sales are pre-installed on laptops which many would format and put on windows 7. Its better to look at website logs to see how many people are using win8.

Microsoft announced windows 7 sales almost every 3 months in the 2009. You can easily check to see what they were. The first statistic was 60M by 2010... Same as Windows 8. The computer industry has not really grown since 09, so these figures are comparable.

the world runs on windows.

as an example, go to google.com, about google, search for jobs working for google.
put "excel" in the search bar and see over 10 pages of job want ads, each asking for "preferred qualifications" of "strong excel skills", proficiency in word, excel, and the like.

Makes me wonder how they account for people that activated their holiday device running WIN8, then returned it for refund. Or, activated WIN8, then went with WIN7.

Rohdekill said,
Makes me wonder how they account for people that activated their holiday device running WIN8, then returned it for refund. Or, activated WIN8, then went with WIN7.

License sale is still license sale, even if downgrade rights are used

Well yes it was design for Touch interface, because everything is going this way, pretty sure IOS and OSX will merge soon too, it already started to take shape on MacOS. But as windows XP and Windows 7 had StarDock etc, to change the OS look. You can use Start8 and modify the way the original look on Desktop. I personnally use it. The OS is way more snappy than windows 7 in desktop vs desktop. That's why Windows is still an open platform on X86, you can modify it the way you want it to be. I use a mix of Metro and Desktop depending on the interface

n_K said,
Much better looking graphs, well done!

I personally wouldn't compliment the individual that made these graphs. They're poorly made, even for a quick job on Excel.

A few things that I would've done differently:
• Shown the y-axis as millions of units sold
• Shown the x-axis as time
• Spelt Neowin correctly
• Removed the legend

HAHA I didn't even notice it was neowi.net! I saw the earlier version, was sure it said neowin.net so not sure if they messed it up when the added the labels then or if it was spelt wrong then.

I'm also confused that 4 million copies of Windows 8 after three days and 40 million copies after 30 days has yielded different "sales per day". Surely a period 10 times length with 10 times as many sales is the same number of "sales per day"?

Crisp - it definitely was designed for touch from a UI perspective; at least the start screen.

However it does run faster than Windows 7 did on my desktop. Not much faster, however start up and most games tend to run pretty fast. My computer specs are in my profile.

I use a 52" television as my monitor and must say Windows 8 looks gorgeous on it and as long as you can understand basic computer principles, there should be no issues navigating the OS.

norseman said,
Crisp - it definitely was designed for touch from a UI perspective; at least the start screen.

However it does run faster than Windows 7 did on my desktop. Not much faster, however start up and most games tend to run pretty fast. My computer specs are in my profile.

Microsoft PR says the same however.....
About speed, let's compare a brand new installation of windows 8 with a brand new installation of windows 7 with aero disable and let's check how fast is each one.

And about easy to use sorry but it is BS (at least for desktop), users requires to know about Modern UI and about "Desktop UI". And a system with only Modern UI interface is not yet for prime time.

Like the Microsoft PR has said, Modern UI is too easy than a kid can use is true however Modern UI is nothing more that a simplest interface, more a Fisher Price OS than a multi usage OS. For somebody that don't know the word "switch task" , "drag and drop", "minimize", "maximize" and "tile" then Modern UI is fine however, for the rest of people, the word for describe Modern UI is "lack".

Edited by Brony, Jan 9 2013, 3:12pm :

Brony said,

Microsoft PR says the same however.....
About speed, let's compare a brand new installation of windows 8 with a brand new installation of windows 7 with aero disable and let's check how fast is each one.

And about easy to use sorry but it is BS (at least for desktop), users requires to know about Modern UI and about "Desktop UI". And a system with only Modern UI interface is not yet for prime time.

Like the Microsoft PR has said, Modern UI is too easy than a kid can use is true however Modern UI is nothing more that a simplest interface, more a Fisher Price OS than a multi usage OS. For somebody that don't know the word "switch task" , "drag and drop", "minimize", "maximize" and "tile" then Modern UI is fine however, for the rest of people, the word for describe Modern UI is "lack".

"Fisher Price OS"
Where have I heard that before?

Brony said,

Microsoft PR says the same however.....
About speed, let's compare a brand new installation of windows 8 with a brand new installation of windows 7 with aero disable and let's check how fast is each one.

And about easy to use sorry but it is BS (at least for desktop), users requires to know about Modern UI and about "Desktop UI". And a system with only Modern UI interface is not yet for prime time.

Like the Microsoft PR has said, Modern UI is too easy than a kid can use is true however Modern UI is nothing more that a simplest interface, more a Fisher Price OS than a multi usage OS. For somebody that don't know the word "switch task" , "drag and drop", "minimize", "maximize" and "tile" then Modern UI is fine however, for the rest of people, the word for describe Modern UI is "lack".


Whaaaaaat?

mrp04 said,

"Fisher Price OS"
Where have I heard that before?

The hate for XP's "fisher price" look was not even remotely close to the hate directed at windows 8, plus you could easily turn off the "fisher price" look without downloading anything, unlike "metro".

MsftGaurav said,
The 60 million figure includes sales to OEMs. Meh.

Indeed, and it is important because most OEM licenses are sitting duck in some brick&mortar store or waiting for a online customer.

I will repeat what I wrote yesterday:

The problem with that argument is that the argument has been used before. When Microsoft announced they sold 40 million licenses, there were people saying here on Neowin that most of those 40 million were bought by OEMs sitting on those licenses, and were not sold through to customers. If that were true, then there would be no increase to 60 million, as OEMs would still be holding onto those licenses they already bought. Instead, they bought more. If I bought 1 million widgets, and sold 20,000, I would not buy another 1 million, I would wait until I sold the majority of the first million.

Licenses are also not something that is physical. If I resell widgets, I need to make sure I order more before I run out, because the manufacturer producing widgets needs time to make and ship the widgets. Licenses are the output of a computer program, not physical objects, so there is no need to preorder to make sure I get them in time to fill my supply chain.

It is much like preorders of music CDs. I know somebody that always preorders music off of iTunes. If you were buying a physical CD from Amazon, you preorder to make sure it is shipped in time so you get it the first day. But with music downloads, there is no point since iTunes is not going to run out of electrons to beam to you, they will be available.

Brony said,

Indeed, and it is important because most OEM licenses are sitting duck in some brick&mortar store or waiting for a online customer.

I'd like to direct your attention to the following: http://www.neowin.net/news/mic...dows-8-licenses-sold-so-far

In this very thread, you make the same exact argument: Microsoft is selling licenses, but OEMs aren't selling computers. Now we're at 60M. Are you going to say the same thing at 80M? 100M? 200M? How many licenses does Microsoft have to sell before you admit people are actually using the OS? What does the market share have to be? It's already past 2.5% according to stat counter, fast approaching 3%.

Why don't you just give it a rest already and admit you were wrong?

nohone said,
I will repeat what I wrote yesterday:

The problem with that argument is that the argument has been used before. When Microsoft announced they sold 40 million licenses, there were people saying here on Neowin that most of those 40 million were bought by OEMs sitting on those licenses, and were not sold through to customers. If that were true, then there would be no increase to 60 million, as OEMs would still be holding onto those licenses they already bought. Instead, they bought more. If I bought 1 million widgets, and sold 20,000, I would not buy another 1 million, I would wait until I sold the majority of the first million.

Licenses are also not something that is physical. If I resell widgets, I need to make sure I order more before I run out, because the manufacturer producing widgets needs time to make and ship the widgets. Licenses are the output of a computer program, not physical objects, so there is no need to preorder to make sure I get them in time to fill my supply chain.

It is much like preorders of music CDs. I know somebody that always preorders music off of iTunes. If you were buying a physical CD from Amazon, you preorder to make sure it is shipped in time so you get it the first day. But with music downloads, there is no point since iTunes is not going to run out of electrons to beam to you, they will be available.

Part of the problem with your argument is that I just finished a job rolling out just over 50 business PCs that have Win8 license stickers on them, but have Win7 installed.

That also doesn't include some of the other "non-official" downgrades that I've performed for clients (with quite a few of these being home PCs). So while technically as far as Microsoft is concerned, I'm responsible for rolling out probably well over 100 Win8 PCs by now, by very few of them are actually running Win8.

Condere said,

Part of the problem with your argument is that I just finished a job rolling out just over 50 business PCs that have Win8 license stickers on them, but have Win7 installed.

That also doesn't include some of the other "non-official" downgrades that I've performed for clients (with quite a few of these being home PCs). So while technically as far as Microsoft is concerned, I'm responsible for rolling out probably well over 100 Win8 PCs by now, by very few of them are actually running Win8.

Then I will once again repost something I wrote yesterday:

This reminds me of a few years ago with the Xbox. When the number of Xboxes sold was outpacing the PS3, people were claiming that nobody was buying machines, that there were millions sitting on store shelves and that is how Microsoft came up with the big sales numbers they were claiming. We have seen that is false, that people were buying those machines, but the detractors needed an excuse to justify their dislike of Xbox. Then it turned to millions upon millions were sold to people with RROD. Now people are claiming that Win8 licenses are being bought, but not sold, and those that are sold are downgrading - history repeats itself.

Please don't refer to users deciding that Windows-7, being a much better OS for their needs, are "downgrading" from Windows-8. Windows-7 is hardly inferior to Windows-8. "Different strokes for different folks"

ModernMech said
How many licenses does Microsoft have to sell before you admit people are actually using the OS? What does the market share have to be? It's already past 2.5% according to stat counter, fast approaching 3%.

Why don't you just give it a rest already and admit you were wrong?

People like that need to give their head a shake and realize that there are people who use it and actually like it.

Brony said,

Indeed, and it is important because most OEM licenses are sitting duck in some brick&mortar store or waiting for a online customer.

A sale, is still a sale.

nohone said,

Then I will once again repost something I wrote yesterday:

This reminds me of a few years ago with the Xbox. When the number of Xboxes sold was outpacing the PS3, people were claiming that nobody was buying machines, that there were millions sitting on store shelves and that is how Microsoft came up with the big sales numbers they were claiming. We have seen that is false, that people were buying those machines, but the detractors needed an excuse to justify their dislike of Xbox. Then it turned to millions upon millions were sold to people with RROD. Now people are claiming that Win8 licenses are being bought, but not sold, and those that are sold are downgrading - history repeats itself.

Your followup quote makes no sense counterpoint my comment.

I'm stating that I've rolled out PCs or "un-officially" downgraded PCs with legit Win8 licenses on them that I'm 99.99% certain are being counted as part of that 60 million licenses sold that at this point in time are not running Win8 but rather Win7.

Maybe my comment needs more clarification, but what I'm alluding to is just because MS sold licenses to OEMs, and those OEMs sold those units to stores, and then those stores sold those PCs to customers, it still may not mean you have 60 million units running Windows 8.

This goes for Win7 as well. Between work and "home" I've rolled out well out over a thousand (maybe 2?) PCs with Win7 stickers on them these past three years. Up until this past year, most of them predominantly rolled out with WinXP on it. I guarantee that my firm and myself weren't the only people doing this in regards to Win7, and how many Win7 licenses "were" sold?

This is why I personally put a ton of more trust in those network traffic stats that however many licenses Microsoft my say they sold. I can walk into a warehouse tomorrow, break out the Amex Black, and truck out 5000 brand new Win8 PCs. Get them back to my place, install Linux on all of them, and do nothing with them. Do you see the paradigm? Just because something sold doesn't mean it is being used or being used as it is supposed to be.

Condere said,

Your followup quote makes no sense counterpoint my comment.

I'm stating that I've rolled out PCs or "un-officially" downgraded PCs with legit Win8 licenses on them that I'm 99.99% certain are being counted as part of that 60 million licenses sold that at this point in time are not running Win8 but rather Win7.

Maybe my comment needs more clarification, but what I'm alluding to is just because MS sold licenses to OEMs, and those OEMs sold those units to stores, and then those stores sold those PCs to customers, it still may not mean you have 60 million units running Windows 8.

This goes for Win7 as well. Between work and "home" I've rolled out well out over a thousand (maybe 2?) PCs with Win7 stickers on them these past three years. Up until this past year, most of them predominantly rolled out with WinXP on it. I guarantee that my firm and myself weren't the only people doing this in regards to Win7, and how many Win7 licenses "were" sold?

This is why I personally put a ton of more trust in those network traffic stats that however many licenses Microsoft my say they sold. I can walk into a warehouse tomorrow, break out the Amex Black, and truck out 5000 brand new Win8 PCs. Get them back to my place, install Linux on all of them, and do nothing with them. Do you see the paradigm? Just because something sold doesn't mean it is being used or being used as it is supposed to be.

I'm honestly lost as to what ur point is. are you saying that microsoft isn't getting paid for the licenses sold? because where I come from a sale is still a sale. It doesn't matter if the customer wants to downgrade or not they still bought and I still get paid. I so again what's really your point in all this?
It is your job to install and fix computers right? so therefore you are a part of the microsoft ecosystem therefore it's because of Microsoft as a company that you actually have a job correct? therefore as far as you should be concerned - a sale is a sale that puts bread on your table.

Condere said,
it still may not mean you have 60 million units running Windows 8.


Correct it doesn't. Just as it didn't for Windows 7. Or Windows Vista. Or Windows XP. The important part of this is not the exact figure, but how it compares to license sales of these past operating systems. Adjusting for growth in the PC industy, Windows 8 is selling faster than Windows Vista by a wide margin. It's selling at just about the same rate as Windows 7. This is what matters. When Windows 7 was released, people like you were downgrading machines sold with Windows 7 down to Windows XP.

Condere said,
This is why I personally put a ton of more trust in those network traffic stats that however many licenses Microsoft my say they sold.

Then let's look at what network traffic stats say. Take statcounter for instance. They had Windows 7 increasing by .0248 percentage points per day in the month leading up to Oct 26. Windows 8 is currently growing at .0263 percentage points per day... roughly the same rate Windows 7 was growing at. Coincidence? No, it just means OEMs were selling machines with Windows 7 before, and now they're selling machines with Windows 8.

Meanwhile Windows 7 has been decreasing steadily in marketshare since exactly Oct 26, the day Windows 8 was released.

In the end, the only conclusion you can draw is that Windows 8 is selling, people are using it, and it is growing. It has alread surpassed OSX and Android usage according to statcounter, and will inevitably surpass Vista, OSX, XP, and one day Windows 7 (if not impeded by the release Windows 9).

ctrl_alt_delete said,

I'm honestly lost as to what ur point is. are you saying that microsoft isn't getting paid for the licenses sold? because where I come from a sale is still a sale. It doesn't matter if the customer wants to downgrade or not they still bought and I still get paid. I so again what's really your point in all this?
It is your job to install and fix computers right? so therefore you are a part of the microsoft ecosystem therefore it's because of Microsoft as a company that you actually have a job correct? therefore as far as you should be concerned - a sale is a sale that puts bread on your table.

My point is that whatever number that Microsoft releases is utter nonsense. In part it is my fault for perhaps not being clearer, but that is what happens when you watch paint dry (IE setup up systems) and then reading and rushing through reading internet pages and posting quickly in between clicking, "OK"... "OK"...

But the point of this article and or any article discussing sales figures for Win8 or another product is to determine it's success. Agree?

However, operating system sales when OEMs are involved invoke a special problem especially when you involve people like myself who often take systems that are prebuilt and change them once they come through my door. Additionally people like myself can deal with volumes that are rather large.

Like it or not to the Win8 haters, many of those license numbers that I've seen lobbied about when talking Win7 sales are probably now machines running WinXP. Likewise, to the Win8 defenders, many of those Win8 license sales are now PCs running Win7.

To answer a question of yours, yes it is a sale nonetheless to MS.

BTW - In some regards, you are correct that I am tied to the MS ecosystem right now. If tomorrow, Apply takes over, do you think I'm sticking to MS??? So in another regard, it doesn't matter, I will follow the market.

ModernMech said,


Correct it doesn't. Just as it didn't for Windows 7. Or Windows Vista. Or Windows XP. The important part of this is not the exact figure, but how it compares to license sales of these past operating systems. Adjusting for growth in the PC industy, Windows 8 is selling faster than Windows Vista by a wide margin. It's selling at just about the same rate as Windows 7. This is what matters. When Windows 7 was released, people like you were downgrading machines sold with Windows 7 down to Windows XP.

Then let's look at what network traffic stats say. Take statcounter for instance. They had Windows 7 increasing by .0248 percentage points per day in the month leading up to Oct 26. Windows 8 is currently growing at .0263 percentage points per day... roughly the same rate Windows 7 was growing at. Coincidence? No, it just means OEMs were selling machines with Windows 7 before, and now they're selling machines with Windows 8.

Meanwhile Windows 7 has been decreasing steadily in marketshare since exactly Oct 26, the day Windows 8 was released.

In the end, the only conclusion you can draw is that Windows 8 is selling, people are using it, and it is growing. It has alread surpassed OSX and Android usage according to statcounter, and will inevitably surpass Vista, OSX, XP, and one day Windows 7 (if not impeded by the release Windows 9).

This is the type of analysis that should be on this site in an article regarding Win8 uptake, and/or discussing Win7 vs Win8. Not MS says they sold X amount, so there MUST be X amount of PCs running Win8. This has been my point that I've been trying to make in this thread.

Just because someone who works for me swears up and down that they did something, doesn't make it true. Sometime is takes me checking whether the equipment is on site and running properly unfortunately for their statement to be verified. It is a very unfortunate aspect of the reality of this world. (Trust me, sometimes the equipment hasn't been there, or it hasn't been setup properly. It happens).

Brony said,

Indeed, and it is important because most OEM licenses are sitting duck in some brick&mortar store or waiting for a online customer.

keywords here are 'sitting' and 'waiting'.

What gets me is the Windows 8 defense people who say it works great on their desktop and how it's not only designed for touch, but we've just seen loads of new Windows 8 touch devices released, including a ViewSonic touch screen monitor for the desktop.
IMO Metro was still designed with touch in mind.

This has always been my argument too, but being on neowin the MS fan brigade comes out all guns blazing to defend the honour of MS.
They take anything slightly negative and perceive it to be an attack against all things windows 8.
Just to spell it out ,windows 8 is a perfectly fine OS, infact after playing on a few touch devices with win8, its wonderful and made me appreciate it more
However on desktop the same cannot be said.

Crisp said,
What gets me is the Windows 8 defense people who say it works great on their desktop and how it's not only designed for touch, but we've just seen loads of new Windows 8 touch devices released, including a ViewSonic touch screen monitor for the desktop.
IMO Metro was still designed with touch in mind.

I've been using Windows 8 the whole past year *without* touch at all. Works just like Windows 7. There's nothing to defend here except that Windows still works as Windows should. If you don't want touch, you don't need touch. Your argument is invalid.

Edited by Dot Matrix, Jan 9 2013, 3:58pm :

The metro interface was mainly designed for touch but I don't use the metro interface on my desktop, I use the desktop UI. The start screen is perfectly fine with a mouse.

Crisp said,
What gets me is the Windows 8 defense people who say it works great on their desktop and how it's not only designed for touch, but we've just seen loads of new Windows 8 touch devices released, including a ViewSonic touch screen monitor for the desktop.
IMO Metro was still designed with touch in mind.

I have a Lenovo Carbon Touch X1. I use both Touch and K/M. I plug it into a second monitor with a trackball in my Office and use it exclusively as a desktop replacement. When I walking around the house I use the Track Pad and Touch. When I am sitting in bed browsing, it site on my lap/chest and I use touch.

Since I am right handed, my right hand slides up and down the screen to scroll, I have the Backspace key and the Charm Bar right there. It works great.

I don't understand how people can't use it with the K/M. The only difference is you need to right click in the bottom left corner of the screen where the Pearl was and you get everything you need. Plus, I pin tons of Apps to my Taskbar.

I think these OEM's are creating great devices so that's why you see so much Touch. Plus, DeskTop PCs have been dieing anyway.

I think Windows 8 is going to be a hit and Blue should improve it.

SCOOBY_666UK said,
Get urself a Logitech t650 Touchpad and it really does work great on a desktop.

Totally agree and at $80, it is a whole lot cheaper than a touch screen monitor..

Current setup is keyboard to the left, with the T650 in the middle and to the front of the numpad section of the keyboard, and my mouse to the right.

Life is so much better.

Dot Matrix said
I've been using Windows 8 the whole past year *without* touch at all. Works just like Windows 7. There's nothing to defend here except that Windows still works as Windows should. If you don't want touch, you don't need touch. Your argument is invalid.
I couldn't agree more

Crisp said,
What gets me is the Windows 8 defense people who say it works great on their desktop and how it's not only designed for touch, but we've just seen loads of new Windows 8 touch devices released, including a ViewSonic touch screen monitor for the desktop.
IMO Metro was still designed with touch in mind.

If you only use Metro then yes...but many (most) desktop users of Windows 8 spend the vast majority of their time on a normal desktop using normal applications. And if you do happen to jump out to the start screen it's not exactly unusable.

More a case of complaining about change for the sake of it I'd imagine.

Crisp said,
What gets me is the Windows 8 defense people who say it works great on their desktop and how it's not only designed for touch

I don't own any touch hardware. Using Win8 for more than a year now and I have to use computer for more than 10 hours everyday on an average. It obviously works great.

Dot Matrix said,

I've been using Windows 8 the whole past year *without* touch at all. Works just like Windows 7. There's nothing to defend here except that Windows still works as Windows should. If you don't want touch, you don't need touch. Your argument is invalid.

Get over yourself already, he never said it wasn't useable, anyone could use the most useless hardware, I could USE Windows 95 on my PSP, is it was best option for that OS? obviously not.

Same with Windows 8, you can't say it wouldn't be better with a touch screen, because it would be when compared to non-touch, and if you do think it's better without touch then Microsoft failed completely in their goal to make it touch friendlier.

Windows 8 is simliar to Windows 7 in most ways, but a lot of ways, mainly in the customization/UI area it is a few steps backwards, that doesn't make it useless overall, it does however make it useless to me.

It's really telling something about you as a person when you keep calling other peoples opinion/view invalid.

JaredFrost said,

Get over yourself already, he never said it wasn't useable, anyone could use the most useless hardware, I could USE Windows 95 on my PSP, is it was best option for that OS? obviously not.

Same with Windows 8, you can't say it wouldn't be better with a touch screen, because it would be when compared to non-touch, and if you do think it's better without touch then Microsoft failed completely in their goal to make it touch friendlier.

Windows 8 is simliar to Windows 7 in most ways, but a lot of ways, mainly in the customization/UI area it is a few steps backwards, that doesn't make it useless overall, it does however make it useless to me.

It's really telling something about you as a person when you keep calling other peoples opinion/view invalid.


Nobody said it works better without touch. It just works great without touch (and even better with touch). QQ less pls.

I never really said he did say that either, I said IF he did think that, no point in arguing over semantics though.

I wasn't sure what QQ was so I had to look it up, and it appears you don't know what it means either.

Stay classy.

I think people also forget, that all Win8 laptops have the same gestures available on the trackpad as they would on a touchscreen the only difference is one would click on icon with a mouse rather than the finger.

I used a win8 laptop for sometime and I absolutely loved it. Looking forward to see what the Surface Pro looks like before I decide between a lenovo/hp/samsung ultra book.

Useless statistics are useless.. The only thing that matters is if customers are buying.. and apparently they are. Lenovo is whipping up some amazing crap and if they keep that up, they may do better than Apple in the long term. CES showed that consumers and suppliers enjoy Windows 8 and that we're barely just scratching the surface of the functionality / features available.

spudtrooper said,
Useless statistics are useless.. The only thing that matters is if customers are buying.. and apparently they are. Lenovo is whipping up some amazing crap and if they keep that up, they may do better than Apple in the long term. CES showed that consumers and suppliers enjoy Windows 8 and that we're barely just scratching the surface of the functionality / features available.

Oh god I always chuckle when I read things like "amazing crap" genius

spudtrooper said,
The only thing that matters is if customers are buying.. and apparently they are.

That matters because of Microsoft and how much money they are making. what also matters is who is buying W8 and who is actually using/installing it as well.

Windows 8 devices are getting lots of attention this year at CES, that may help sales a bit.

I'm surprisingly interested in the 20 inch tablet shown off the other day...