Analyst: Windows 8.1 won't fix apps that 'suck'

Doesn't everyone love analysts, always coming out with such fantastic opinions of the latest market developments. This week we're hearing some of those enthralling opinions from Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft that has some harsh words to say about the state of Windows 8 and how Windows 8.1 won't fix any of these issues.

In an interview with Computerworld, Cherry chastised Microsoft for having a poor selection of apps, saying "Windows 8 sucks because Windows 8 apps suck." He goes on to say that in all the rumors surrounding Windows 8.1, the next major update to Windows 8, there's nothing that indicates the quality of apps will become better. In his opinion, unless Microsoft can fix the apps problem, nothing else that they can do with Windows 8.1 will make much difference.

Everyone's obsessed with the look of the thing. What do I care about a Start button in Windows 8 if I spend all my time on the desktop? It's the lack of good applications [that's hurting Windows]. And from what I can tell, developers aren't going to get anything from Blue. I don't see anything about apps getting better.

Cherry pointed to Microsoft's home-grown Windows 8 applications, such as the Mail, Calendar, People and Messaging app, saying that "if that's the best Microsoft can do [...] with their resources, it's no surprise that there's not a [third-party] app worth a darn." Microsoft has been heavily criticized for the quality of the first-party apps in Windows 8, especially around the launch, and it's not clear if these apps will improve in the next major update.

Cherry's solution to Windows 8's problems is not to bring back the Start button or introduce more customization features, but instead to provide developers with documentation and inspiration to make quality apps. "Tell developers, 'We're going to get you all the assistance and all the documentation you need, we will create apps that are so full-featured that they will inspire you to write great apps,'" he said.

A lot of information surrounding Windows 8.1 (codenamed "Blue") is still unknown, although expect more to be unveiled not only through a steady stream of leaks, but also at Microsoft's BUILD conference mid-year, where a public preview of Windows 8.1 is expected to be unveiled.

Source: Computerworld via WinBeta

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Windows 8 does not suck.
Modern UI suck.
And it is not because the developers but because the platform. My main complain with the Modern UI platform it is how the platform is limited, how it is easy to access to internet and hard to access local resources. So, it is not strange the most Modern UI are website turned into an apps.


yeah, and all those android and iOS apps are so great too.... how many compuses, levels, and flashlights do you need?

neufuse said,
yeah, and all those android and iOS apps are so great too.... how many compuses, levels, and flashlights do you need?

There are some crappy apps on all platforms, no doubt, but you have to admit that there are pretty good apps out there for iOS and Android that have no Windows 8 counterpart. I can give you two examples that are relevant to me: Jawbone's UP doesn't have an app for either Windows or their mobile platform and Mint (a financial resource I utilize every day) doesn't have anything remotely available that's similar to what's offered on the iOS and Android side.

Everyone is different and there are those core apps, even if they're just a couple, that make their lives easier and they will choose a platform based on it meeting those needs.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't complain just for complaining. We all have different tastes and preferences.
The products that don't sell will disappear. Let the market decide.
Honestly, I don't think Windows will "loose" , nor will it revert. It will just get better in terms of UI.
Complaining about the Modern UI because thay have apparently done very little to the desktop in terms of new features is like complaining that they are not prioritizing the Command Line anymore for not adding new features to it. The switch of UI paradigm will happen sooner or later.
This is Microsofts contribution and I know that like in the case of mostly all innovations in UI there is al lot of resistance from those who aren't fit to adapt.

Robert Sundström said,
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't complain just for complaining.

Since most notebook and pc don't sell separately from Windows then, i have my right to complain.

Finally, I'd like to add. The new logo microsoft sucks. The old one was much better. Therefore, it remains only to say that Windows finished on 7 and office on 2010. Next will only get worse, at least for desktops PC. Because the way back from microsoft not. Take a step back - to recognize their mistakes, and it's not acceptable for them
Do you know why these ******* do not release SP2? Because then no one will not install 8. And so there is a chance that people who decide to reinstall windows, thinking that as long to put updates, I'd better install 8, she was already includes all the latest updates...
I think that they will make every effort to kill 7, but I'll say suck microsoft.

Why is everyone ignoring the argument that he is making? The real problem of windows 8 is the API . A lot of apps including those made by Microsoft just suck... most take 6 to 8 seconds to open , some even more. For instance some developers complain of not being able to make a sound mixer app because the APIs for making it is juts not there. XBox music. people app, mail app and ton of other apps that such with windows 8 are just plain bad.. This is what Microsoft needs to fix.

6-8 seconds to open? Sorry but I run Windows 8 on my desktop, tablet and MacBook Pro and I have no such issue.

I don't know if you are being serious but this is a very common complain.. most apps take a lot of time to open.. including the Surface pro and Surface RT. Some take 6 to 10 seconds to load.. others don't open at all.

I think most of the problem with Windows 8 apps is that the browser beats essentially all of them. Yes, Mail, Music (ugh...), Bing, Weather, etc. all take time to open. You click/touch the tile and then spend 5 seconds looking at a stupid spinning circle. And if your screen is oriented in portrait mode, heaven help you -- amazingly, not all of MS' in-house apps are optimized for portrait and landscape modes.

All of the functions of most apps (like email, music and so on) are more simply handled by opening the browser and visiting websites.

I can see where MS is trying to go, but the functionality just isn't there. I'm pretty positive on MS products, but I can't help shake the feeling that W8 is failing big-time. The market doesn't care and the quality isn't there.

kinpin said,
I don't know if you are being serious but this is a very common complain.. most apps take a lot of time to open.. including the Surface pro and Surface RT. Some take 6 to 10 seconds to load.. others don't open at all.

Nope. On my 4-5 year old laptop, apps took 6-10 seconds to open. On my new Surface Pro, apps open in less than a second. The difference is dramatic.

Gittles said
I think most of the problem with Windows 8 apps is that the browser beats essentially all of them. Yes, Mail, Music (ugh...), Bing, Weather, etc.
Well that's a personal opinion. That varies from user to user. I hate having to open the browser just to get somewhere, when I have an app that is talored towards that one job I need it to do, whether that be checking emails, news (including tech news apps), social networks (Facebook, Twitter, Skype), etc.

Gittles said
all take time to open. You click/touch the tile and then spend 5 seconds looking at a stupid spinning circle.
I've never had that issue before, so maybe it's more of an isolated issue. It depends on the hardware, but then again, my 3 year laptop with 3GBs of RAM worked fine with opening apps.

kinpin said,
I don't know if you are being serious but this is a very common complain.. most apps take a lot of time to open.. including the Surface pro and Surface RT. Some take 6 to 10 seconds to load.. others don't open at all.

Yes I am serious. I have my Microsoft mail and work exchange account on the surface rt and my desktop but I have no issues. 6-8 seconds? really?

Studio384 said
What? An update for the OS doesn't fix the fart apps! This can't be!

/s

Lol, I wish those apps didn't exist in every platform..

Windows 8 doesn't suck. Perhaps the Microsoft Store sucks but that is not the whole OS. Saying Windows 8 sucks would be like saying 7 is a catastrophe. Almost everything in 7 is on 8... with improvements.

DaveGreen93 said,
Almost everything in 7 is on 8... with improvements.

All that was embodied in the 7 with soul, 8 is killed. 7 - is a long way from great Win 98 - XP. 7 - is ideal. 8 - it's ****.
I also forgot to add one more significant minus 8 - the killing gadgets. They argued that the alleged they may be infected with viruses but we do know ... It is only for the fact that to make room for the stinky charm panel and to the fact that people came to watch the weather and other things in theirs crappy metro screen.

Haha
Okay I dont miss anything on my Windows 8 desktop from what I had on Windows 7.
I can work identical from Win7 as to open apps I either winkey+typed or for games i just opened the games folder i placed under favorites in explorer. Start Menu was a cluttered mess, even on 23inch screen it filled 2,5 rows from top to bottom, which is absolutely unusable. I dont use Modern apps, I dont have to. I sometimes look whats around but besides the messaging app and mail (notifications are handy) I dont find myself using em much. Occasionally IE10Modern cause its more relaxing to browse fullscreen sometimes (also I trust it more then any other browser to open links I dont trust ).

Anywho, the gadgets, which evolved from Active Desktop... has continued to evolve into what we now call Tiles.
If you didnt cry for Active Desktop to dissapear (a feature I still miss a lot), then whats the problem of Gadgets?
To see the gadgets u had to press WIN+D or bottom right corner with mouse.
Now press Win or click the bottom left corner, big deal?

IMaysky said
I also forgot to add one more significant minus 8 - the killing gadgets.
Actually, you can bring back the gadgets feature into Windows 8..

IMaysky said
They argued that the alleged they may be infected with viruses but we do know ... It is only for the fact that to make room for the stinky charm panel and to the fact that people came to watch the weather and other things in theirs crappy metro screen.
Perhaps you should learn how to write first..

Well... that's a logical argument for once. Microsoft really does need to improve the state of their own apps. The Mail, People, Messaging app really needs an overhaul. Especially since it looks like Skype is suppose to take that over, or at least part of it, but Skype is a whole other mess that Microsoft needs to figure out. I have no clue why they canned their own messaging service for something so crappy, but again that is another story. Microsoft did well with the News app, and some others, but really they need to make the first part experience solid, like what Apple did with iOS. Every nook and cranny of iOS has been given special detailed attention, where as every Microsoft product, they throw functionality and potential everywhere, and abandon it... why the heck am I still using Microsoft products...

This! Problem was a decade of Microsoft being bottlenecked and only in recent years they've started to reorganize and restructure. This takes time. Microsoft is massive, they have many divisions, many markets and many...many products. Comparing this to iOS that runs standalone within a division or Android that runs on its own as well, to Microsoft, where everything is tied in, there are a lot of divisions and products that where developed individually due to the anti-trust.
I think if given the time, Microsoft can clean up their mess and provide this uniform secure experience envisioned 2 decades ago.

Windows 8 sucks.
They've increased the speed of the killing of Aero. They could leave Aero for people who have powerful computers and a SSD instead of a simplified example to make aero matte style for those with slower machines, and a hdd and everyone would be happy.
Already, many wrote that they could make separate windows for their tablets and PC, but they just do not care for classic PC and spat in his face.
Not only that, there is no start menu, so there are no Aero, no way to disable the Metro for those to whom it is not necessary. There is no way to disable hot corners.
So even if they return the Start menu (which is unlikely) they will not refund Aero and will not give an option to disable the hot corners. Yet another disadvantage of this sludge - is the lack of classic games by default, I have to go into the store and download theirs ****ing card. Which are also not run in desktop mode
8 - not improved is 7, it's brutally chopped and damaged Windows for housewives and tablets. Therefore, the less people will install this ****, the more it comes to microsoft that they screwed up. 8.1 The fact that the weather will not make it for sure, but maybe something will change in 9.
Sorry for my bad English.

Crap and ugly apps. Is this new? What we had before windows 8? E.g. desktop gadgets and IE addons, let's start here if we talk about crap. Now users use win 8 apps (or not), but the quality problem with users uploaded content is still the same. MS learned nothing. (okay for the IEAddon gallery, they learnded that the content was ugly and they replace the site. For gadgets they learned that nobody need 50 ugly wikipedia search and they removed the gadgets...)

"What do I care about a Start button in Windows 8 if I spend all my time on the desktop? It's the lack of good applications [that's hurting Windows]. And from what I can tell, developers aren't going to get anything from Blue. I don't see anything about apps getting better."

These two statements are complete contradictions of each other. If he is spending all his time in the desktop he is not running Windows 8 apps.

"And from what I can tell, developers aren't going to get anything from Blue. I don't see anything about apps getting better."

It's worse than that. Based on the leaks that have come out, all the built-in apps are being ROLLED BACK to where they were at 8.0's RTM, there won't be any development tools or documentation at all, and the Windows Store is being CLOSED so even if there were good apps nobody will be able to obtain or update them!

contextfree said,
"And from what I can tell, developers aren't going to get anything from Blue. I don't see anything about apps getting better."

It's worse than that. Based on the leaks that have come out, all the built-in apps are being ROLLED BACK to where they were at 8.0's RTM, there won't be any development tools or documentation at all, and the Windows Store is being CLOSED so even if there were good apps nobody will be able to obtain or update them!

WTF are you talking about. I am hoping you missed the /s somewhere in there.

notchinese said,
WTF are you talking about. I am hoping you missed the /s somewhere in there.

I was thinking that as well, otherwise it's just a troll trying to make a non trolling comment.

notchinese said,

WTF are you talking about. I am hoping you missed the /s somewhere in there.

Pretty obvious you are missing the joke. He's saying that you can't judge 8.1 by the leaks we see today. The Windows Store being closed should have made this obvious... it's locked/closed in the leaks... obviously won't be in the final version.

Microsoft did a horrible job with Win8. From this article, now they're hoping for third party app developers to come save the day? To me that only solidifies the belief that Win8 is crap...when you already have to heavily rely on outside apps to make it worthwhile.

...uhh, what? Are you delusional?

Windows has always been about running third-party programs. What best-in-class software from MS has ever been bundled with Windows? Minesweeper?

the guys is what is technically known as a complete fu*kwit....

how can he make a statement like I spend all my time in desktop but there's a lack of good applications???

On windows desktop there are more applications available by orders of magnitude than any other operating system on the planet combined....

to say he doesn't use start screen / metro apps is one thing but to wrap that up with im in desktop and nothing is available shows he has no idea what the f*ck he's on about...


Rudie32 said,
Apps won't help. I just honestly hate Modern UI's interface. I feel like I'm using a fisher price toy.

Thats what happens when you try and put a phone touch OS with a 4" screen and just upsize it to PC 24" size that need a keyboard and mouse to work.

I agree with him. Ultimately it's all about the apps. Why go Windows 8? All the real apps run great under 7.

Windows 8.1 will improve the Modern UI for sure. It will be better. Desktop users will be less annoyed with it.

But where's the Modern UI desktop apps. Not tapplets (tweeters, maps, newsreaders). Real applications for Modern UI.

Just think about what he said which is what many have said, if the core apps in Windows 8 are the best MS can do, why should devs bother?

Windows 8.1 is a worth upgrade but I don't know that there's anything in it that will spur more Modern UI app development beyond tappletware we have now. And 90% of all tablet/phone tapplets suck, regardless of platform.

MorganX said,
But where's the Modern UI desktop apps. Not tapplets (tweeters, maps, newsreaders). Real applications for Modern UI.

I refer you to my comment...

Devs should bother because at near 5% PC marketshare after only 6 months....it has nearly as many OS/X users to target....and it will only go up. That's why.

LookitsPuck said,
Devs should bother because at near 5% PC marketshare after only 6 months....it has nearly as many OS/X users to target....and it will only go up. That's why.

Globally Apple still hasn't hit the 3% mark.

@Matt

>>You people don't actually understand the current state of the WinRT API. It is very primitive at the moment. It is brand new and it will take a long time to mature and take on the features that win32 and the other api's like .net has now.<<

I think everyone agrees with that. I think the question is, people are asking why should we develop for it now then? Many users are asking, why should I put up with it's annoyances when I have to work in the Desktop Environment.

So it is good that MS is improving the UI and interaction with the desktop now, especially the un-unified full screen search, and it is good at least they restore the start button. Make it optional for those who don't want it.

I think we all know why it was released in its current state, MS was getting too far behind in Tablets/Phones.

>>Microsoft can't do what is possible in Win32 yet in pure WinRT<<

And this is why they should have taken a more gradual approach to transition. Blue will be good, but Modern UI apps won't for a while. That's the gist of it.

You people don't actually understand the current state of the WinRT API. It is very primitive at the moment. It is brand new and it will take a long time to mature and take on the features that win32 and the other api's like .net has now. In a particular way Windows 8 series of operating systems and WinRT is very much in the position that the original Longhorn would have been in if it had not been reset.

Longhorn was to, among so many dreams that have either been partially realized or not come at all, be the start of transitioning Windows to an all managed code based largely off the then new .net framework and the deprecation of the mess that is win32. The original .net plan is very close to what is going on now 10 years later albeit updated. People like to dis Windows Vista for not being what Longhorn had promised or whatever but if Longhorn had happened the way it was suppose to we would be in virtually the same situation we are today with the Windows 8 Series of operating systems.

Yes Longhorn failed and development was reset and we got Windows Vista which was far more traditional but laying the foundation for the future. Windows 8 however is very akin to Longhorn Mark II and this time Microsoft has the foundation that Longhorn didn't have while being based on NT 5x code. It will take a long time to get us to a mature system that we can create programs for. The metro design was created not to be something new but something different and within the current capabilities of this extremely primitive and new api that Microsoft is trying to create to replace win32 and other technologies.

We will be in a world of pain for quite a while but there is hope that perhaps the Metro design will be refined and most of all that as this transition happens that WinRT API will evolve and give us the capabilities we cling to in today's Windows operating systems. Such as the stacking window model and desktop paradigm. I still believe these are superior than the tiled window model but frankly WinRT is not capable or even have a concept of a window model.

You may say ModernMix and while ModernMix is a fantastic program that solves alot of today's problems it is merely a hack on the off screen rendering capabilities of WinRT/DWM bringing a textured surface to a win32 window. These things eventually will make a return we hope but for right now from a logical sense we have to move forward and keep hope alive.

Microsoft can't do what is possible in Win32 yet in pure WinRT but when it comes to a point that they can and don't then we will be in a better position to judge that. Until then we still have what is left of what we currently and in the past call Windows to help us along and them for that matter.

There is alot going on with Windows and the near term future is going to be hard for everyone. But in the long term it could work out for the best. However, It could end up being disastrous..

I hope this helps to explain more about what is REALLY going on.

-Tobin

Edited by Matt A. Tobin, Apr 27 2013, 3:51am :

The only reason I'm still using Windows 8 is because I prefer the desktop to Windows 7's. I don't use any of the apps outside of Messaging and the toast notifications from Mail which I then check via browser.

dvb2000 said,

no it's not
No start menu, no doubt they blue it!

So because you don't like something, they blew it? What a terribly selfish way to look at the world.

I seriously don't think anyone's used the metro apps since the release of Windows 8. The built in apps, especially news, finance, and maps are amazing now, I use them every day.

Anyway, analysts suck, so there's that.

I keep trying to see if they've gotten better. Some have, and some haven't. What's funny is that in some cases, my apps worked great when I first got it all set up, and started failing over time. I don't even--

There are clearly some good designed app, but that is not the only thing that needs to be fixed.. There is also the problem of performance.. when an app takes 8 to 10 seconds to load or crashes a lot ( like XBox music) then you know they have a problem.

^ The worst thing about this is that it makes me not even want to BUY any of the apps. Like... if it's so risky to get first-party apps to work, let alone third party apps that are free, why would I bother even paying for an app that may not work?

It feels like a gamble, one that I'm not willing to risk.

It's the devs fault, not Windows. There are some GORGEOUS apps (see all the apps from the Bing Team, Cocktail Flow, SkyScanner, Amazon, etc.). It's the dev's responsibility to actually DESIGN the apps. Microsoft has provided standard templates (which is why many apps look ugly, the devs just use those)... but the beautiful apps are the ones that get proper app designers. See this: http://vimeo.com/52177075

It's the same case on iOS and Android, there are tons of ugly apps, but the gorgeous ones are the ones the devs actually have designers for.

And MS has the ability to set the quality bar anywhere that it wants. The Store doesn't have to be a free-for-all playground. MS just runs it that way because they care more about the sheer number as an advertising point. Doesn't matter to them if an app gets submitted with no icon and does nothing but list ten Chuck Norris jokes.

j2006 said,
It's the devs fault, not Windows. There are some GORGEOUS apps (see all the apps from the Bing Team, Cocktail Flow, SkyScanner, Amazon, etc.). It's the dev's responsibility to actually DESIGN the apps. Microsoft has provided standard templates (which is why many apps look ugly, the devs just use those)... but the beautiful apps are the ones that get proper app designers. See this: http://vimeo.com/52177075

It's the same case on iOS and Android, there are tons of ugly apps, but the gorgeous ones are the ones the devs actually have designers for.

It all depends by what apps you need; for me WP8 sync apps, both Metro and the desktop ones, are basically useless; the Metro app for pictures is basic, to put it mildly. Even the Metro one Note version lacks a lot of the functionalities of the desktop one.
The biggest mistake MS did was to ship W8 with the in house developed apps that were at a Beta stage if not Alpha.

Gotta love this guy and his use of technical terms like suck...

Dont like the apps, dont use them. No one is forcing you to. You can still install and use regular programs. I dont like Win8 to much the way it is, but my reasons dont have to do with apps.

This would make sense if we weren't talking about apps included with the damn OS. You see how much flak Apple got for their Maps app not functioning properly?

I'd say the Microsoft user-base has been much less vocal by comparison on apps. Or maybe it's that the UI gets so much heat, the poor app functionality gets overlooked.

What annoys me though is how I'm expected to sell someone a computer with a straight face, telling them apps like Mail will allow them to easily access their email, when the Mail app fails so hard in reading my own email.

bguy_1986 said,
does this mean that Xbox music is still going to suck as well? Has to be the worst app of all!!

Have you used it since march update?

I don't know about that. It's an up-the-$***hill battle against Mail.

And then there's Messaging, which has no functionality with which to make a poor showing.

siah1214 said,

Have you used it since march update?

Yes, still too damn suck compared with Music Info or Zune. Speed is improved but usability is still unacceptable.

You can use Zune on Windows 8 - who says that XBOX Music is mandatory? (While Zune is not my default MP3 player - that honor goes to VLC - it is my alternate. And how did I get it? Surprisingly, it came via Windows Update.)

Us desktop/laptop users don't use those silly Metro apps! I unpinned all the trivial non-desktop apps in my Windows 8 start screen and pinned all the desktop apps to it!

Edited by Atomic Wanderer Chicken, Apr 27 2013, 2:07am :

I do. I actually like them on my desktop. One click and I'm using Twitter without having to go to my browser, or login in all that. It's faster than the web version. One click and I see live updates from all my apps in one spot (start screen). Just because you don't need/want it, doesn't mean others don't.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the correct way of using Windows 8, not raging and asking for the less functional Start Menu, ranting and complaining that Windows 7 is better.

CanonCygnus said,
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the correct way of using Windows 8, not raging and asking for the less functional Start Menu, ranting and complaining that Windows 7 is better.

Your argument would be valid if all these apps actually worked 100% of the time...

Speak for yourself. I'm a desktop user that DOES use MetroIRC and MetroTwit (replaced mIRC and HootSuite, respectively). Not every Win32 application even RUNS windowed - HootSuite, for example, does not; it runs full-screen by default and CANNOT be windowed. Most full-featured mIRC clients that aren't clones or mIRC skin+script combos that don't even truly replace mIRC share all too many of mIRC's faults - MetroIRC, on the other hand, has none of them. While a lot of ModernUI apps aren't cutting the ketchup, some do.

Exactly. Microsoft should be leading by example, yet its first party Metro apps are terrible. It needs to work closely with the top developers while showcases the possibilities with its own apps. Launching without Facebook support was a mistake - if it came to it Microsoft should have developed the app itself and simply got Facebook to sign off on it.

There are a few decent Metro apps out there but you really have to search for them.

So true! People are bitching about the UI like mad, but how about some functionality to the "features" of the damn OS? This is the part that has me caught up: the advantages of Windows 8 are currently unseen because the features they're bringing just aren't here yet. I don't mind a new UI if it means I can get things done quicker; that part I can adapt to.

What I cannot adapt to is utilizing tools and features that quite simply don't work.

This sort of statement is really not helpful. As a WP8 user it really drives me crazy when someone says "This app sucks on WP the Android and iOS version is so much better." My usual reply is "I have no problem with the app perhaps you suck!"

trip21 said,
My usual reply is "I have no problem with the app perhaps you suck!"

So they have a legitimate grievance with the WP version of an app and your response is to insult them? I think I see the problem.

Android arguably is far more ahead in having a diverse amount of touchscreen apps than Windows 8! Developers just need to jump on the Windows 8 bandwagon! The amount of Android apps is like an ocean in contrast to the amount of Windows 8 apps which is like large pond!

lctb51 said,
Android arguably is far more ahead in having a diverse amount of touchscreen apps than Windows 8! Developers just need to jump on the Windows 8 bandwagon! The amount of Android apps is like an ocean in contrast to the amount of Windows 8 apps which is like large pond!

Android has been out longer and is way more popular. Win8 app quality and quantity will increase when it becomes more popular/used.

theyarecomingforyou said,

So they have a legitimate grievance with the WP version of an app and your response is to insult them? I think I see the problem.

"It sucks" does not qualify as a legitimate grievance soooo no you don't see the problem. If you want to argue go to a retailer and buy a product then attempt to return is on the grounds "it sucks" and see how you go.

bguy_1986 said,
IMO, every app is better on WP8.... the problem is we're just missing some of the big apps....

Not really, dutch news sites recently released apps for WP8...
Nu.nl's app is horrible, shows news titles but opens the link in IE.
NOS's app is lovely, uses the Modern design very well and is smooth.

It depends on the developer if the app sucks or not.

trip21 said,
"It sucks" does not qualify as a legitimate grievance soooo no you don't see the problem.

Then ask them why it sucks, don't just insult them. Resorting to personal attacks is why it's difficult to have mature discussions about technology.

Dutchman01 said,
Windows 8 sucks, that will not change on 8.1..

Care to explain how it sucks? What can't you do on it, that you can on Windows 7?
They deployed Windows 8 at our workplace, we haven't seen a drop in productivity at all, in fact we've seen a rise in productivity. While yes, there are minor things they can improve, it doesn't 'suck'.

They dont even have all the Angry Birds games, and they are charging $5.00 the space one! Windows is not about touchscreen apps anyways, its about the countless desktop programs! People dont buy a Windows pc to scew around touching their pcs!

I've been running Windows 8 since the dev preview and my productivity has only gone up. Its actually difficult to use Windows 7 now.

And there are fairly significant UI changes coming in Blue. The start screen is getting many new features such as search being better. Maybe these aren't enough for you, but its good that they are coming.

I don't think Win8 sucks. I prefer it over 7. However, the search in win8 is horrible compared to 7. It is the one major weakness of the OS. I know they are changing this in Blue, but I"m not sure the proposed changes will be enough

What kind of idiot speaks about angry birds games??? if you have an issue with angry birds not being available for windows then call the company that writes angry birds...

please explain how you can buy angry birds on your ipad and run it on your macosx laptop / desktop then we can talk about angry birds...

j2006 said,

Care to explain how it sucks? What can't you do on it, that you can on Windows 7?
They deployed Windows 8 at our workplace, we haven't seen a drop in productivity at all, in fact we've seen a rise in productivity. While yes, there are minor things they can improve, it doesn't 'suck'.

I am sure it is very meaningful to still argue about why it sucks or does not suck, right? Yeah let's continue argue about that for another year, non stop. Very meaningful results will come out of it.

j2006 said,

Care to explain how it sucks? What can't you do on it, that you can on Windows 7?.

That's not really the question, isn't it? What I can do more on Windows 8 if I not use Metro or apps? That the File-Explorer have ribbons now? That's all? For a desktop-mode-only user I notice not any benefit.

lctb51 said,
They dont even have all the Angry Birds games

This is to be applauded actually. The last thing Windows needs is to have applications that are little more than pollution.

Real PC users play Ski Free.

Lastwebpage said,

That's not really the question, isn't it? What I can do more on Windows 8 if I not use Metro or apps? That the File-Explorer have ribbons now? That's all? For a desktop-mode-only user I notice not any benefit.

Then you're not using the desktop as a poweruser.
The countless of extra keyboard shortcuts. The increase in screen real estate (whenever I'm on Win7, I notice how much screen is just put to waste by useless junk).
You can now actually use your mouse to equal in speed of keyboard, with any Windows before, no matter _what_ I did, I was faster with the keyboard then with the mouse on the desktop. While now I often hardly use the keyboard at all, I can do so much more with just the mouse and faster!
Oh and that for the average power user, who likes to be able to mount ISO's, run the taskbar on multiple monitors etc. This now comes OOTB instead of having to use unstable POS 3rd party tools.

But wait, there's more...

Use the OS and find out

The problem is that the Desktop has been looked at from a poweruser perspective, not from the average joe perspective.

BannanaNinja said,
I've been running Windows 8 since the dev preview and my productivity has only gone up. Its actually difficult to use Windows 7 now.

And there are fairly significant UI changes coming in Blue. The start screen is getting many new features such as search being better. Maybe these aren't enough for you, but its good that they are coming.

I guess your productive work then must be simply playing cut the rope and angry bird. Windows 8 metro crap is a pile of horse dump.. and Metro tards defending that pile of crap are like flies flying over the dump.

Auditor said,

I guess your productive work then must be simply playing cut the rope and angry bird. Windows 8 metro crap is a pile of horse dump.. and Metro tards defending that pile of crap are like flies flying over the dump.

Actually I don't use any Metro apps on my Desktop (Metro however is great on my Tablet). The great thing about Windows 8 is you don't have to. I work mostly in Visual Studio and IE. Most of my apps are pinned to my Taskbar, the few other things I need I quickly get from searching.

And Metro is not crap. As the app store grows, we will see more and more productivity apps. For example, I have been working on an SSH client that I might get up sometime this summer for the Windows Store. There is no reason an app like Photoshop or Visual Studio (minus the debugging side) won't eventually show up in the store because the API is full featured enough and fast enough. If I knew more about imaging/manipulation and had more free time I'd write it just to prove that point.

Side note: If Microsoft wanted to, porting Visual Studio would be insanely easy. It already uses XAML for its UI which is the same as WinRT. The backend C++ and compiler could possibly be ready to go without any/few changes.


Shadowzz said,

...
This now comes OOTB instead of having to use unstable POS 3rd party tools.
...

I don't think you made much sense and i could argue with you point for point but i don't think you'd listen so i won't waste my energy BUT i do find it adorable when you said what i quoted above lol
Can you say 3rd party Start menu ? LOL

Dutchman01 said,
Windows 8 sucks, that will not change on 8.1..

I kinda agree and i don't want to say that to be a jerk or anything. People that don't like it now probably are not gonna change their mind with Blue i think, i Don't think that's the point.. Microsoft is focusing on the people that already like it seems and not trying to win over so called "haters".

But making statements like this may be fair but definitely not the least bit constructive. If you took the time to complain then maybe offer some suggestions as to what you don't like specifically and maybe some ideas on how to make it better. (considering your reply was nowhere close to being on topic)

I guess you didn't get the memo that it's not always-on... it's a stupid rumour. Devs can require connection, but it's not required to use the console. Plus, nothing won't be officially announced until May.

j2006 said,
I guess you didn't get the memo that it's not always-on... it's a stupid rumour. Devs can require connection, but it's not required to use the console. Plus, nothing won't be officially announced until May.

I guess you didn't get the memo that he's not talking about that

Actually if they create additional API's for WinRT that aren't currently present then 8.1 would directly have an impact on the quality of the apps produced.

It takes time for app stores to improve in quality. Windows Phone went through a similar process. Microsoft needs to provide more guidance however and improve the development platform (but I think we will hear all about that at BUILD in June).

That... isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the close connection between xbla development and Windows 8 development.

SteveyAyo said,
That... isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the close connection between xbla development and Windows 8 development.

They saw "Xbox" and "Connection" and lost vital brain functions