Anonymous: Don't challenge us NATO

Some may have noticed that recently there's been a big step up in talk about cyber attacks and the digital form of terrorism. The United States and the United Kingdom have already made their stance clear that any attack or espionage through the use of the internet will be dealt with in the same manner as if it was a physical, conventional attack on the country.

NATO have recently sent out its own official opinion on the whole process of hacking, but in one particular part, the treaty organisation singled out the well known internet group called Anonymous which has been known for its digital attacks, most recently in the case of Visa and PayPal due to the WikiLeaks situation.

Anonymous have hit back today though in a mixed statement to NATO which both seemed to be strong but also aligning itself with the idea that they do not seek to harm individual countries or their way of life. You can view the Google Cached version of their announcement here.

One of the important aspects of Anonymous' statement is it questions NATO's motives over its concern for hacking groups by claiming that countries are worried about maintaining the status quo rather than the the threat to society. The hacking group however finished its statement by saying "Do not make the mistake of believing you can behead a headless snake. If you slice off one head of Hydra, ten more heads will grow in its place. If you cut down one Anon, ten more will join us purely out of anger at your trampling of dissent."

Image Credit: news.cnet.com

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Ethics? Going after corporations is immoral?
ScubaDog, go back in your bubble and wait for the burst, it will come when your slave owners sacrifice you.
It's the responsibility of government to take care of the people. When your corporations / slave owners see no more use for you. It's the responsibility of the people to keep both the state and the corporations running it in line.

I'm amazed some of you people seem so fond of hackers. It doesn't matter if you think "what they stand for" is good. The fact is, what they are doing has nothing to do with what they advertise. You don't go after corporations, you don't go after financial systems for any sort of "altruistic" reason. It's unethical. It's immoral. It's illegal. It's selfish, shallow and childish. It's a shame that otherwise very skilled and intelligent people choose to behave so stupidly. Those same individuals could do some very good and beneficial things, yet what they choose to do is just evil. PERIOD. Personally, I believe they are hypocrites. The very transparency they CLAIM to champion is the transparency they avoid themselves. While the call to "nuke" them was stupid and heavy-handed, I think everyone of you who chastized the poster should think about your own ethics.

Posted this on Twitter earlier. Whilst I think that somebody somewhere in the "public" conciousness needs to stand up for the many sometimes, I don't condone what Anonymous do.

Their statement to NATO seems to suggest that whilst "governments" are not above the law, they evidentally believe they are. They flaunt laws in at least equal measure as the alleged governments they make reference to surely?

There starting to push there luck now, organisations fair enough but kinda threatening an international defence force is just plain stupid. Hope they get what they deserve

+1 to the post above by Teebor. Government will of course not like it when they are being hassled with on what would seem is their own turf.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

Teebor said,
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

Guys, did you even read the full statement ? I can't disagree with them when they say : "When a government is elected, it is said to "represent" the nation it governs. This essentially means that the actions of a government are not the actions of the people in government, but are actions taken on behalf of every citizen in that country. It is unacceptable to have a situation in which the people are, in many cases, totally and utterly unaware of what is being said and done on their behalf - behind closed doors."

DrunkenBeard said,
Guys, did you even read the full statement ? I can't disagree with them when they say : "When a government is elected, it is said to "represent" the nation it governs. This essentially means that the actions of a government are not the actions of the people in government, but are actions taken on behalf of every citizen in that country. It is unacceptable to have a situation in which the people are, in many cases, totally and utterly unaware of what is being said and done on their behalf - behind closed doors."

Whilst I agree I think many people miss the "ethos" of a government in a democratic society. The President/Prime Minister/Government in total is elected not to "Fulfill the will of the people". In my opinion they are elected to "Do what is RIGHT for the people" based on their principles as laid out in manifesto's etc. We may not always like what politicians we have elected do in office, but surely what is RIGHT is not always what is WANTED?

Have a think...

Yes. Well done "Anon" you have once again proven your collective stupidity and not even close to immature behaviour.

I admit, Playing with likes of Sony... Well done you try to make a point (Which doesn't actually do anything, no one should be scared of them) but you need to draw a line somewhere with childish antics and you shouldn't try it on with NATO... You know, the country's most of them will live in that generally make the rules and can screw you over without even thinking about it. (Not saying death or anything but the likes of arrest warrant's etc etc etc)

TL;DR - Anon are fags.

winlonghorn said,
LOL @ Anonymous! You people really have balls don't you!? You see what happened to Bin Laden right?? That could be you Anonymous!

Yeah, but then you have a lot of people, instead of just one, in an eastern country.

winlonghorn said,
LOL @ Anonymous! You people really have balls don't you!? You see what happened to Bin Laden right?? That could be you Anonymous!

First question:

What was "Bin Laden"? A real "terrorist", killing innocent American women and children? Or just a made up guy by the US government for them to scare people and make them "invest" in idiotic warfares?

If Anonymous wants to take on these companies then they should do so within the law. They should expose these companies, organise protests and boycotts and campaign for reforms to the legal system where needed. Instead they are mounting illegal attacks on companies simply because they disagree with their business practices.

Organisations like Wikileaks serve a legitimate purpose. Anonymous does not and all involved should be brought to account.

Why is everyone still so adamant on Anonymous being responsible for the Sony fiascos? There isn't any solid proof and it actually falls more in line with what Lulzsec would be behind.

Xenosion said,
Why is everyone still so adamant on Anonymous being responsible for the Sony fiascos? There isn't any solid proof and it actually falls more in line with what Lulzsec would be behind.

Because Anonymous came out and said specifically that they would take Sony head on if they prosecuted GeoHotz.

And, because Anon never came out and denied it was indeed their coordinated effort that highlighted the security holes in that company's infrastructure.

Xenosion said,
Why is everyone still so adamant on Anonymous being responsible for the Sony fiascos? There isn't any solid proof and it actually falls more in line with what Lulzsec would be behind.

Yes, because there are only 2 groups of hackers in the entire world capable of such actions. Get realistic... Whoever hacked sony is never going to pony up for it. For all we know it could have been one of the 200 or so developers they laid off at the end of March.

dotf said,

Because Anonymous came out and said specifically that they would take Sony head on if they prosecuted GeoHotz.

And, because Anon never came out and denied it was indeed their coordinated effort that highlighted the security holes in that company's infrastructure.


Anonymous did deny it.
Ruciz said,

Yes, because there are only 2 groups of hackers in the entire world capable of such actions. Get realistic... Whoever hacked sony is never going to pony up for it. For all we know it could have been one of the 200 or so developers they laid off at the end of March.


Who said there are only two possible groups capable? Not me. I am merely stating that these attacks at Sony are more in line with what Lulzsec has been doing. More so than anything Anonymous has done.

This was a wakeup call for sony. If ANON didnt hack them, someone else would of. All the security holes....this will force Sony to update and be more secure.

techbeck said,
This was a wakeup call for sony. If ANON didnt hack them, someone else would of. All the security holes....this will force Sony to update and be more secure.

pfft, I hope you don't really believe that... Many people were into sonys network months before their '77 million accounts' were compromised. Sony was also warned countless times to beef up security but neglected to.
If these hacks were a wakeup call Sony had to be in a coma beforehand. IMO their ignorant execs got exactly what they deserved. Hope that $170M+ that fixing PSN costed and re-securing all their other breaches was worth it. If ANY government gives them any write-off's for it I hope these groups will bring that to light too. The tax payer shouldn't pay for their incompetency.

techbeck said,
This was a wakeup call for sony. If ANON didnt hack them, someone else would of. All the security holes....this will force Sony to update and be more secure.

More secure than what? not being able to get hacked by SQL Injection? A hacking method that everybody knew about for years?

Its about time. The governments have been taking advantage of us far too long. Democracy is literally translated into Demo - People and Crat - Ruler, or the people are the ruler. But that is no longer the case. The government wants to manipulate and use us for self-gain. Nothing more. Nothing less. Take our past few presidents. They all promised something during campaigning and then as soon as they took office they changed their views and did what they wanted. Helped the big companies and shat on the people. If hacking and cracking the government is what it takes to get them to realize the people are stronger than they take us for (or at least the people who aren't sheep in a human body) then have at it I say.

Brennon Miller said,
Its about time. The governments have been taking advantage of us far too long. Democracy is literally translated into Demo - People and Crat - Ruler, or the people are the ruler. But that is no longer the case. The government wants to manipulate and use us for self-gain. Nothing more. Nothing less. Take our past few presidents. They all promised something during campaigning and then as soon as they took office they changed their views and did what they wanted. Helped the big companies and shat on the people. If hacking and cracking the government is what it takes to get them to realize the people are stronger than they take us for (or at least the people who aren't sheep in a human body) then have at it I say.

Yes the US government uses US citizens. But your statement isn't exactly true because more than just US companies have been publically targeted. All the companies have foothold in the US tho.

Maybe these groups can start leaking USEFUL information, rather than destroying the little guys who have no role in either problem.

Ruciz said,

Yes the US government uses US citizens. But your statement isn't exactly true because more than just US companies have been publically targeted. All the companies have foothold in the US tho.

Maybe these groups can start leaking USEFUL information, rather than destroying the little guys who have no role in either problem.

The little guys have a big role. They pay for what the companies do.

I have less of an issue with Anonymous; while much of what they do is annoying, most of it is for something its members believe in. Some sort of cause, some sort of reason.

Lulzsec on the other hand... just read through some of the material. They think it's a game. That exposing holes in companies' code is fun. I don't doubt that it is, and I strongly believe that those holes wouldn't be there in the first place if the programmers were more rigorous in their testing, and more cautious with every line of code they write. But that doesn't make it right.

It's fine to say that the companies had it coming - Sony clearly has no idea how to lock down their systems - but the companies aren't the losers here. A few million spent to appease your users after data is stolen is a joke for most corporations; the losers in this situation are people who do *anything* online besides hacking.

You know... the kind of people who would join Anonymous.

Simon said,
I have less of an issue with Anonymous; while much of what they do is annoying, most of it is for something its members believe in. Some sort of cause, some sort of reason.

Lulzsec on the other hand... just read through some of the material. They think it's a game. That exposing holes in companies' code is fun. I don't doubt that it is, and I strongly believe that those holes wouldn't be there in the first place if the programmers were more rigorous in their testing, and more cautious with every line of code they write. But that doesn't make it right.

It's fine to say that the companies had it coming - Sony clearly has no idea how to lock down their systems - but the companies aren't the losers here. A few million spent to appease your users after data is stolen is a joke for most corporations; the losers in this situation are people who do *anything* online besides hacking.

You know... the kind of people who would join Anonymous.

Exposing holes is the only way to move forward. Sadly, there will never come a day when something is secure unless it has no output option which is 100% useless. Security is only a time-based thing though.

Nothing is truly secure, but as long as the security holds up for the duration of its implementation then its OK. Hacking anything 50 years down the road would be fruitless as new revisions, builds or devices will fill its gap with improved security/features/options etc.

I agree that I have no idea why they are after customer details rather than company secrets... Likely because to a company the customer is worthless compared to their secrets so they protect them more.
In the end they are ****ing US off, the people they are supposedly standing up for, not the big box corps who get a huge tax writeoff from the hack, and end up with more investors when a new more secure system is setup.

In reality this happens a LOT more than we know, or are told, just there are idiots who want to run their mouth about it so now its a 'problem'

Here's the funny part about "Anonymous", it's probably 1 person drafting these "letters"... and it's probably someone high up already in some security, government, etc or related position that is funding or behind the release of the letters and actions. There is always a leader of a pack, I don't care how anonymous you are.

xendrome said,
Here's the funny part about "Anonymous", it's probably 1 person drafting these "letters"... and it's probably someone high up already in some security, government, etc or related position that is funding or behind the release of the letters and actions. There is always a leader of a pack, I don't care how anonymous you are.
Oh no, you found me.

flexkeyboard said,
f.cking with hackers is one thing, but waging war and sticking their dicks into every beehives around the world is some very dumb sh.t
lmao

I agree with what anon stands for, not always 100% with the way the execute them but you have to hand it to them on the sony issue that they get the job done. I mean look how much they shafted Sony in terms of company reliability... i know 2 people who were hardcore Playstation users who jacked it and brought an Xbox....

Anon dont seem to be attacking people at random which from the reports and info they put out isnt ever going to be their purpose.. Sure they attack individuals, but normally those individuals have either done something terrible like abusing animals or attacking innocent people(group of 3 black ladies on a bus). I support Anon and at least they're not bending over and taking it because some government agency or higher power is threatening them/bad mouthing them.

SickDave said,
I agree with what anon stands for, not always 100% with the way the execute them but you have to hand it to them on the sony issue that they get the job done. I mean look how much they shafted Sony in terms of company reliability... i know 2 people who were hardcore Playstation users who jacked it and brought an Xbox....

Anon dont seem to be attacking people at random which from the reports and info they put out isnt ever going to be their purpose.. Sure they attack individuals, but normally those individuals have either done something terrible like abusing animals or attacking innocent people(group of 3 black ladies on a bus). I support Anon and at least they're not bending over and taking it because some government agency or higher power is threatening them/bad mouthing them.

For evey good thing Anon does they've done 10 **** ones.

Uh, Anonymous didn't do the Sony stuff. No one has come forth regarding PSN, and Anonymous has denied it. Lulzsec did the other Sony sites.

SickDave said,
I agree with what anon stands for, not always 100% with the way the execute them but you have to hand it to them on the sony issue that they get the job done.

So it's perfectly acceptable to cause hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage to a company for legally defending their intellectual property? I'm sorry but what planet are you on? Anon is a group of attention seeking children that believe they are beyond the reach of the law. Your logic is absolutely ridiculous.

theyarecomingforyou said,

So it's perfectly acceptable to cause hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage to a company for legally defending their intellectual property? I'm sorry but what planet are you on? Anon is a group of attention seeking children that believe they are beyond the reach of the law. Your logic is absolutely ridiculous.

Ya cause only affiliates of the government have the right to be beyond the law...

DukeEsquire said,
Ugh, do they really need to be so melodramatic all the time? I can't take them seriously.

It's hard aint it? 'specially when you imagine them typing that up while wearing a costume of their favorite anime character.

no-sweat said,

It's hard aint it? 'specially when you imagine them typing that up while wearing a costume of their favorite anime character.


Hahaha thank you! Now I can visualize it that's so funny except for me hating Anonymous and Lulzsec or whatever.

Alladaskill17 said,

Hahaha thank you! Now I can visualize it that's so funny except for me hating Anonymous and Lulzsec or whatever.

LS and Anon are two totally different groups, don't get them confused. Anon's principles seem to be more moral.

Brennon Miller said,

LS and Anon are two totally different groups, don't get them confused. Anon's principles seem to be more moral.
The major difference I see between the two is that Lulzsec seem capable of doing more than DDoSing, which is more than you can say for Anonymous.

LordBattleBeard said,
The major difference I see between the two is that Lulzsec seem capable of doing more than DDoSing, which is more than you can say for Anonymous.

The attack on HBGary, a security company for that matter, proved that they do have people capable of pulling off real attacks. It's just a matter of gathering enough to swarm together on an agreed upon operation/target...

How about a Predator drone missile into a few of these cyber-twits homes?

I'll bet new" heads" wouldn't grow back so fast.

PeterTHX said,
How about a Predator drone missile into a few of these cyber-twits homes?

I'll bet new" heads" wouldn't grow back so fast.


Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.

omnicoder said,

Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.

Lol!

omnicoder said,

Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.
Well said! +1

PeterTHX said,
How about a Predator drone missile into a few of these cyber-twits homes?

I'll bet new" heads" wouldn't grow back so fast.

+11

omnicoder said,

Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.

Nice...

omnicoder said,

Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.

HAHA, well said! I actually respect PeterTHX for some of the things he's posted, but this comment is just terrible...

Their antics can very well get someone killed. Even if they miss, someone shooting at a NATO installation or trying to infiltrate one will get additional holes in their body. With so much depending on electronics cyberterrorism is no different.

omnicoder said,

Since lives are so meaningless and can be freely taken without due reason, they might as well send one your way while they're at it.

They have basically admitted they are terrorists. They are the ones threatening lives. Nice to see some people have no clue to what's at stake here.

If you interfere with military operations in person there's a very good chance you'll get yourself killed. Doing it electronically is no different.


PeterTHX said,

They have basically admitted they are terrorists. They are the ones threatening lives. Nice to see some people have no clue to what's at stake here.

If you interfere with military operations in person there's a very good chance you'll get yourself killed. Doing it electronically is no different.

When did Anonymous say they were terrorists? Please provide link to proof. Thank you.

Military operations and terrorist actions kill people. I will never condone any military action or terrorist action. It's ridiculous how people can fight one and not the other when they are 2 sides of the same coin.

Jebadiah said,
When did Anonymous say they were terrorists? Please provide link to proof. Thank you.

What they're threatening is terrorism. There's your proof. Thank you too.

Military operations and terrorist actions kill people. I will never condone any military action or terrorist action. It's ridiculous how people can fight one and not the other when they are 2 sides of the same coin.

So the military actions to stop civilian massacres in Libya, Bosnia, Albania, etc. are the same as terrorism. (FACEPALM)

PeterTHX said,
How about a Predator drone missile into a few of these cyber-twits homes?

I'll bet new" heads" wouldn't grow back so fast.


how about you go and buy yourself a new sense of humour?

PeterTHX said,
How about a Predator drone missile into a few of these cyber-twits homes?

I'll bet new" heads" wouldn't grow back so fast.

From reading their announcement, that is exactly what would make the new 'heads' grow back fast, it's exactly the point they are trying to make. The more disproportionate force that is used against them, the more anger it creates. As an aside, perhaps a Predator drone would not be the best choice for your immoral overkill scenario. It's computerised.. and therefore hackable! That plan might backfire.

PeterTHX said,
So the civilian massacres to stop civilian massacres in Libya, Bosnia, Albania, etc. are the same as terrorism. (FACEPALM)
fixed for you