Apple announces iPhone 5S

In a special event held at Apple's HQ in Cupertino today, the next generation of iPhone was revealed which confirms previous rumours that it would include a fingerprint sensor known as Touch ID, a faster processor and improved camera with dual LED flash. A new 'champagne' colour option has been made available for the first time, which includes gold tinted metal, and white glass.

The exterior shell of the device is much the same as the iPhone 5, and looks almost identical at first glance. The home button loses its iconic look, and is replaced by a sleeker button with a silver ring surrounding it. Inside, the new A7 processor is said to have significant speed improvements and for the first time is 64-bit. This is the first smartphone with such a processor. Specifically, the 5S's CPU is 2 times as fast as the 5, and will utilise OpenGL|ES 3.0 for graphics. Battery life remains at 10 hours of talk time or LTE browsing, and 250 hours of standby.

​The new Touch ID sensor

A new security feature, which has been much hyped in rumours, is Touch ID, a fingerprint sensor built in to the home button, which replaces passwords around the whole system, including in the iTunes Store. It has a 500ppi resolution and 360 degree readability. It would allegedly be hard to 'hold it wrong'.

The improved camera is said to be significantly better than past generations, with vastly improved low light capabilities thanks to increased aperture. The five element lens has been designed by Apple, and has an f/22 aperture and a 15% active area on the sensor. A new dual LED flash has been named 'True tone' and has a far wider range, and better capabilities in all light environments. An array of new software features have also been developed for the camera, including a burst mode at ten frames per second, and an option to film 120fps slow-mo video at 720p.

A new chip has been placed inside the iPhone 5S, and has been dubbed M7. It contains the accelerometer, gyroscope and compass and continually measures data to give you health and fitness tips.

The iPhone 5S will launch later this year with iOS 7, the latest version of Apple's mobile OS. This update features an all new design which is famous for removing the ornamentation that iOS has been famous for since its original premiere in 2007.

This much anticipated update to the iPhone 5 falls in line with Apple's pattern of releasing incremental hardware updates in between larger updates every two years. It’ll cost $199 for the 16GB model, $299 for 32GB, and $399 for 64GB on a 2 year contract in the US and can be pre-ordered from Friday 13th September (Unlucky for some?) and will be on sale September 20th.

Source: Apple | Images: Apple

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Very disappointed . Now considering going back to Samsung . They made it sound like they were going to come up with a reasonable price

wow. never have i seen so many frogs so happy croaking and boasting in a well so deep within so short a time. the really, really sad thing is. this is not even a apple fan sites.

Edited by Albert, Sep 11 2013, 2:47am :

I said that same thing to someone yesterday and they told me to go put on my tin foil hat. With everything in the news lately does the tin foil hat even fit anymore?

Honestly the neatest thing to me is shooting 120fps at 720p. I'd like that in a phone. I'd like 240fps even better, even at half that resolution.

For the average consumer this is a really nice upgrade. People will appreciate the new 5S colors, the better camera and flash. The big thing is getting biometrics into a mass market consumer device... Has that happened before? I mean mass market, like millions and millions of people all around the world using it all day every day, this is big and leads to who knows what, possibly the most robust mobile payments platform ever. 64 bit is cool but will mean nothing to the average consumer. Aple have done what they always do, continual upgrades and improvements.

The really sad thing is, that I can just find a launcher and basically do everything that iOS7 does but with a larger screen and if I rooted, there would probably be a rom that someone has made that mimic'd the iOS7 interface and notification centre etc.

I wouldn't go that far, considering stock prices dropped after the announcement. Looks like a lot of people were apathetic if not unhappy.

adrynalyne said,
I wouldn't go that far, considering stock prices dropped after the announcement. Looks like a lot of people were apathetic if not unhappy.

Stock prices will always drop after any conference, no matter what is announced. I can't recall any Apple conference that resulted in higher prices immediately after it in the last few years.

Cocoliso said,
Jony Ive voice is starting to get annoying and puts me to sleep, monkey Ballmer is actually more fun.

His shirt must smell awful by now. Every year and every video it's the same one

Hmmm, well, I'm no Apple fan, but the fingerprint sensor-home button and that gold colour certainly are nice. First thing I've seen that was really all that different from them in AGES. Cool.

I'm not a apple fan but I have some respect for them for being the first with a mobile 64bit soc, hopefully this has triggered other soc companies to also move forward

Hopefully they didn't got a patent for making a phone with a 64bit soc :L

IF it's about a technical detail of their processor I can agree they can have patents on it but a patent for it being a 64bit soc isn;t quite realistic, just like ford getting a patent on red cars and now every car manufacturer has to pay ford to make a red car.

Deihmos said,
It does not even have NFC.

I'm sure this will be an amazing feature one of the next iPhones.

To be fair though, my credit card is contactless, as are all the cards for everyone in my country right now. So why would we need NFC?

All I do is put my wallet near the card reader and I pay, using a mobile for this would be the same. The only good thing would be if it used fingerprints instead of a PIN, but I think Apple are waiting until NFC has more uses than simple payments, or they have an alternative proprietary system in mind.

When it's useful they will release it as a 'fantastic new mobile phone feature' I'm sure.

I'm not anti Apple in any way, as I use an iPhone and iPad, I do hate the way they take advantage of consumers with 'new' features though.

I use nfc with my Bluetooth headphones. Touch to connect and touch to disconnect. Not interested in using it for payments.

JEBUS but these 'cheaper' iphones are bloody pricey in the UK (and everywhere else, of course):

iPhone 5C: £469 (£390.83 ex VAT) for the 16GB model and £549 (£457.50 ex VAT) for the 32GB model.
iPhone 5S: £549 (£457.50 ex VAT) for the 16GB model and £629 (£524.17 ex VAT) for the 32GB model and £709 (£590.83 ex VAT) for the 64GB model.

Those prices are just insane...(esp the 5C)

iPhone 5C is $99 and $199 for 32gb version. People who buy non contract phones are not the target market. The majority of people use contracts because the majority of people don't switch carriers and phones every few months unless they have to.

Maybe in the US, but in Europe contract-free phones are an excellent deal. You don't get them because you're switching carriers all the time - that's nonsense. You get them because they're far, far cheaper than getting a contract. At least they were, before Apple invented the iWay Robbery.

Just to follow up - currently, in the UK, you can get a Nokia Lumia 520 off contract for £90-£100. That phone has a slot for a SIM card, so the memory can be boosted to whatever level you want. Of course it's not as highly specced as the 'iWay Robbery', but it's a damn good model - you get a freaking lot of phone for your money. That £370 difference was what the new Apple phones were supposed to be addressing. Clearly they didn't get the memo.

It's not nonsense. Most people here buy a phone and contract and stick with it for 2 years. They don't switch phones or carriers every six months. Contract buyers still remain Apples target market. They don't get a new phone because hey, new shiny! They get it because it's a perk of renewing the contract. Thus, an iPhone costs no different than any other phone.

ILikeTobacco said,
People who buy non contract phones are not the target market.

The 7 billion people outside the US are not the target market for a cheaper version of the iPhone... the target market for a cheaper iPhone is the 313 million in the US?

So you are telling me the 7 billion people outside the US all don't use contracts. Every last one of them. See, I can be equally as ridiculous and sound just as stupid doing it. Stop trolling if you want to discuss something, otherwise don't address me at all.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Who said anything about 'every last one of them' except you?

Look - if someone wants a contract then fine - there are lots to choose from. What is being pointed out is that there is another way of purchasing phones - SIM free. SIM free deals are very attractive for very many people (and certainly my understanding is that this market is mostly non-US). For any potential non-SIM buyers, the new iPhone prices are a total and utter joke. Currently Nokia phones (520, 620 and 820 and others, probably) are far, far better value for money. Is that clearer?

Go ahead and quote where anyone argued that? Everything you just said, wasted, because not a single person argued against any of that. You're original comment is 100% irrelevant to what you responded to unless all 7 billion people don't use contracts. Keep up with the discussion before calling people obtuse. The discussion at hand is who the target market is for Apple. I will give you a hint. It's those that buy with contracts. Welcome to ignore. No time for people who can't be bothered to read what they claim to be arguing against.

Probably nobody noticed this, but for first time in the world, a CPU is as powerful as a desktop version.

I think Apple again is changing the world. (All future smartphones will come with 64bits CPU, etc.)

there is no cell phone in the world that is faster than the one of 64bits that Apple just announced.

Where did you see a comparison between the A7 and a desktop CPU to make that claim?

I can guarantee you that even an Intel i3 low end CPU is much faster than the A7 SoC.

acido00 said,
Probably nobody noticed this, but for first time in the world, a CPU is as powerful as a desktop version.

I think Apple again is changing the world. (All future smartphones will come with 64bits CPU, etc.)

there is no cell phone in the world that is faster than the one of 64bits that Apple just announced.

For the first time a (mobile) CPU is as powerful as a desktop version? Nope. Not only is this CPU much less powerful than a desktop CPU... it's also ARM vs x86-64, so the instruction sets aren't directly comparable just by saying "it's 64 bit!".

Apple isn't changing the world with including a 64 bit processor in their phone. There are already reference designs for this made by ARM.

acido00 said,
Probably nobody noticed this, but for first time in the world, a CPU is as powerful as a desktop version.

I think Apple again is changing the world. (All future smartphones will come with 64bits CPU, etc.)

there is no cell phone in the world that is faster than the one of 64bits that Apple just announced.

top lol. if it even approaches a low end dual core intel processor i'd be surprised. and if it does...well... enjoy the battery.

Really worried about the capacitive button...

Pro: Less moving parts, always good. Have had issues with the button in the past.
Potential con: if it tries to sense a fingerprint when one touches the button, how does it act when it's in my pocket? Does that drain the battery if something is simply touching the button itself?
Potential con: How sensitive is the button to just random touch -- will something brushing up against it act as a "button press" and potentially leave an app to go to the menu?

Answer to first potential con: the touch does not work if a material in your pocket touch it. do not worry about it. it needs something that generates electricity and be able to touch.

Also, is it a required functionality or is the old unlock screen still there. Consider that many people use those cases that completely incloses the phone.

@acid What is in your pocket, and the pocket itself, transfers it from your leg. That is how some modern car airbag sensors work these days so it does happen. The question is how sensitive to that is it. My phone actually triggers my sensors in my car because it is overly sensitive.

Looks like a nice update but I'm not overwhelmed by it. It improves on the 5 in a number of areas but it's not enough to make me upgrade - which I'm pleased about!

The twice-as-fast CPU is tempting, but iOS is already so so smooth, so it seems like a fairly useless upgrade for someone like me who doesn't play graphic-intensive games on the iPhone.

That's normal though. I can't remember the last time a hardware refresh iPhone came out that really gave a reason to upgrade. Usually it only has those that are two behind upgrading which works out anyway with a 2 year contract

I think the CPU upgrade is more about iOS7 so we don't even understand yet how much it is needed for that update or not.

ILikeTobacco said,
That's normal though. I can't remember the last time a hardware refresh iPhone came out that really gave a reason to upgrade. Usually it only has those that are two behind upgrading which works out anyway with a 2 year contract

I think the CPU upgrade is more about iOS7 so we don't even understand yet how much it is needed for that update or not.

All the reports I've read so far as saying that, aside from a few bugs, iOS 7 is running really well on the i5.

Maybe the i5S will make it a whole lot better, I guess we'll see.

omgben said,
I think the bigger story is, "Microsoft fans continue to be unimpressed with Apple."

Reading the semi-literates on twitter...even they're laughing at the ridiculous prices

Just wait until it releases, and the non-Apple users will tell you how much these devices they don't use "suck". You know... with all that first hand experience they'll have. Or maybe that cousin's ex-girlfriend's sister who didn't like it because...-

This looks sweet, I'm getting the white one at full price to replace my Lumia 920. Tired of stale old OS that MS refuses to get up to par.

No mention of an updated radio. UK Vodaphone users won't be pleased if they still can't use LTE as spammed by all the adverts...

-T- said,
40 x faster than the 1.3Ghz iPhone 5 CPU. Gotta get this phone with a 52Ghz CPU

Another poster who doesn't read before posting! Welcome to the party!

-T- said,
40 x faster than the 1.3Ghz iPhone 5 CPU. Gotta get this phone with a 52Ghz CPU

40 x faster than the ORIGINAL iPhone, if I remember correctly. Twice as fast as the 5. Don't really pay much attention to those kinds of stats.

stevan said,

Another poster who doesn't read before posting! Welcome to the party!

Sounds like he read EXACTLY WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN THIS ARTICLE

"Specifically, the 5S's CPU is 40x as fast as the 5"

Which is obviously false and stupid, hence the sarcastic remark.

Lord Method Man said,

Sounds like he read EXACTLY WHAT WAS WRITTEN IN THIS ARTICLE

"Specifically, the 5S's CPU is 40x as fast as the 5"

Which is obviously false and stupid, hence the sarcastic remark.

Haha I know, I totally forgot to put the symbol.

So, no iWatch, no Mac Pro, no iPads, no Apple TV. The Mac Pro must be one of the most-delayed products ever.

Some nice phone touches, but in truth this is just catching up with the competition.

Harold Camping said,
So, no iWatch, no Mac Pro, no iPads, no Apple TV. The Mac Pro must be one of the most-delayed products ever.

Some nice phone touches, but in truth this is just catching up with the competition.

If you compare it to the Lumia 920 it's still behind. The 920 is nearly a year old.

virtorio said,
Indeed, as long as you don't count the CPU, graphics or the fact the 920 takes noticeably grainy pictures in low-light.

Being this uninformed.

I compared the specs, 920 has a slower CPU and less capable graphics. Grainy pictures - that's from my experience of owning one.

Harold Camping said,
So, no iWatch, no Mac Pro, no iPads, no Apple TV. The Mac Pro must be one of the most-delayed products ever.

Some nice phone touches, but in truth this is just catching up with the competition.

Those are in October. Come on now. Today was day for their iPhones.

virtorio said,
I compared the specs, 920 has a slower CPU and less capable graphics. Grainy pictures - that's from my experience of owning one.

Still being this uninformed.

I can guarantee you the specs you think are bad on the 920 run WP8 at a smoothness level an iPhone user could only dream about.

virtorio said,
Oh, you're one of those.

Yea I'm not one of those who automatically assumes a bigger number = better performance.

No doubt you're loving the new 64bit-ness from Apple...paired with devices with 1GB ram.

SirJimmyOfRussell said,

Yea I'm not one of those who automatically assumes a bigger number = better performance.

No doubt you're loving the new 64bit-ness from Apple...paired with devices with 1GB ram.

Well clearly Apple designed a 64bit chip and OS for no reason other than marketing Just as clearly as Nokia was doing so awesome that they sold their Mobile division to Microsoft.

stevan said,

Well clearly Apple designed a 64bit chip and OS for no reason other than marketing Just as clearly as Nokia was doing so awesome that they sold their Mobile division to Microsoft.

I think it's purely marketing.

The whole point of 64bit is to overcome addressing problems with 32bit (~4GB). The phones offered don't even have 4GB let alone exceed it. A total gimmick designed to fool the multitudes of idiots out there into thinking it's "better".

Also going from a 32bit OS to a 64bit one is a pretty fundamental change...and again it'll be years before most of it (or the apps running on it) will take advantage of any possible benefits.

I'm sure the compatibility modes will be just revolutionary in their speed and robustness.

You're right, there is very little (if any) advantage having a 64-bit CPU on a mobile device at the moment. But fast forward a few years, when these devices will starting having >= 4 GB RAM, Apple will already have an ecosystem filled with 64-bit applications.

Old, 64-bit architecture for mobile devices was introduced months ago by ARM. This is clearly an ARMv8 ripoff. And the average Joe will naturally think that Apple totally invented it.

CygnusOrion said,
So where is the ARMv8 for Lumia phones?

Why would there even be any ARMv8 implementation in any Lumia? Doesn't make any sense.

ARMv8 ripoff? Are you a troll or genuinely misinformed? Apple along with Samsung, nVidia, and now AMD as well as countless others license technology for the ARM architecture directly from arm and integrate them into their SoC's. Apple just happen to be the first to have licensed it for use in a phone. There's no "ripoff" going on, just a legitimate and common process. I also imagine that like previous chips, the A7 is still being manufactured by samsung. How do you get off spouting such utter tosh?

Gungel said,
The only highlight is the new A7 SoC, everything else is a complete let down.

Yeah, everything else was just the usual minor bulletpoints and fluff trying in vain to make it look as different as possible. A7 is the only important part in the end though.

SirJimmyOfRussell said,
5c - 16GB - off contract....

$549.

hahahahhahahaha. who are they kidding.

No one! This phone will sell extremely well at that price.

SirJimmyOfRussell said,
5c - 16GB - off contract....

$549.

hahahahhahahaha. who are they kidding.

The number of iSheep dumb/naive/stupid enough to break their contracts year after year don't bat an eye.

Nogib said,

The number of iSheep dumb/naive/stupid enough to break their contracts year after year don't bat an eye.

Just spied the Canadian pricing for the 5s 64GB - $919+tax. Over $1000 for a device that is inferior to much of the competition except for it's "CHAMFER!" and privacy theft switch.

Here in Canada, Telus will sell you a Samsung Galaxy S4 16Gb for $700 without contract...

The S3 is $650 !!!

What a better price hey???

Nogib said,

The number of iSheep dumb/naive/stupid enough to break their contracts year after year don't bat an eye.

Its their money. People makes purchases on items they don't "need" everyday. I'm sure you have also. My money is just that, my money. I can spend it however I see fit.

JHBrown said,
Its their money. People makes purchases on items they don't "need" everyday. I'm sure you have also. My money is just that, my money. I can spend it however I see fit.

a) it's money you get after the government takes their slice
b) money is fake.

SirJimmyOfRussell said,

a) it's money you get after the government takes their slice
b) money is fake.

If you want analyze it that way. After "a" takes their cut, Im still left with mucho "b" to indulge in technology.

JHBrown said,
If you want analyze it that way. After "a" takes their cut, Im still left with mucho "b" to indulge in technology.

Do yourself a favour and indulge in some quality tech. You'll love it.

SirJimmyOfRussell said,

Do yourself a favour and indulge in some quality tech. You'll love it.
I have plenty of it. Ready?

27inch late 2012 iMac
MacBook Pro 2012
MacBook Air 2013
Sager gaming laptop Windows 7
Dell laptop Windows 8
2 iPads
2 iPhones
Galaxy Note 2
Asus Transformer Prime Tablet
2 Samsung Focus Windows 7 phones
A Haswell gaming desktop I just built in July running Windows 7
A late 60's muscle car(69 fastback)
A mid 2000 muscle car(2004 Cobra)
A late model muscle car(2012 Shelby)
All of these items are currently at home here in San Diego waiting for me when I leave work. I have a lot of quality tech. Haven't even mentioned my home theater yet. :-)

JHBrown said,
Its their money. People makes purchases on items they don't "need" everyday. I'm sure you have also. My money is just that, my money. I can spend it however I see fit.

While everyone else judges you for your (purchase) decisions, which we are doing here.

- Pile of aging electronics - yawn
- 2004 Cobra - that's some ugly shiz-nit. laughable, probably the kids car (I would hope)
-1969 fastback - Ok year, fb is good, probably slow outdated stock or too over the top bling. probably not rebuilt by you.
-2012 Shelby - ok value for the price, still a muskrat. There are better performance and detailing packages out there. Doesn't age well. nothing special.
San Diego - that's says a lot you to pick that part of Cal

Anything more interesting?

JHBrown said,
I have plenty of it. Ready?

27inch late 2012 iMac
MacBook Pro 2012
MacBook Air 2013
Sager gaming laptop Windows 7
Dell laptop Windows 8
2 iPads
2 iPhones
Galaxy Note 2
Asus Transformer Prime Tablet
2 Samsung Focus Windows 7 phones
A Haswell gaming desktop I just built in July running Windows 7
A late 60's muscle car(69 fastback)
A mid 2000 muscle car(2004 Cobra)
A late model muscle car(2012 Shelby)
All of these items are currently at home here in San Diego waiting for me when I leave work. I have a lot of quality tech. Haven't even mentioned my home theater yet. :-)

Sounds like attention deficit and low serotonin

SirJimmyOfRussell said,

Sounds like attention deficit and low serotonin

Nope! I just got back from Amsterdam and got plenty of while there for two weeks. ;-) A man in uniform should never lack attention. :-)

Perhaps in affluent countries but they are in need of getting traction in poorer (larger) markets such as China and this won't do it. In short they have no answer for the largest incoming market of smartphones

A new chip has been placed inside the iPhone 5S, and has been dubbed M7. It contains the accelerometer, gyroscope and compass

Oh boy, apple finally discovered sensors other phones have had for ages.

Some decent stuff here. The 64 bit A7 is nice and certainly 64 bit is where everything is going, just little impact currently. I think that Microsoft has a chance here to have some interesting products, especially if the pricing is right.

Hopefully with Nokia under their wing MS can be better at marketing, because they stink at it. I have seen many an excellent piece of hardware flounder because they couldn't sell it due to crappy marketing.

"The five element lens has been designed by Apple, and has an f/22 aperture and a 15% active area on the sensor. "

f/22 is the minimum aperture (and smallest hole, as in, it lets less light in at this size.) f/22 is pretty standard for a minimum. f2.2 is the maximum (biggest hole) letting most light in.

Also, the sensor is 15% bigger which is really good, rather than simply stating more megapixels, they have increased something that really matters.

Did they state what the megapixel number is? IS it the same 8 mega pixel one from the 5? It will help my decision greatly to see if I get my wife the 5c or the 5s.

So what, obvious upgrades as with any new phone gen, a fingerprint sensor that has been done before, and a few other expected upgrades. Cool and and all and I am sure it will sell like crazy. But not a real wow factor.

Tech has gotten to the point where things really have not been impressive. Think there is a lul in innovation in the tech industry. Just taking existing ideas, obvious improvements, and doing something minor to change them.

techbeck said,
So what, obvious upgrades as with any new phone gen, a fingerprint sensor that has been done before, and a few other expected upgrades. Cool and and all and I am sure it will sell like crazy. But not a real wow factor.

Tech has gotten to the point where things really have not been impressive. Think there is a lul in innovation in the tech industry. Just taking existing ideas, obvious improvements, and doing something minor to change them.

Couldn't agree more. Althrough their fingerprint tech is somewhat impressive. And it's not stored in the cloud.

as147 said,
Whatever they are remember to take 15-20% off of the quoted run times.

I know a lot of people with iPhones struggle to get through the day with them and it doesn't look like anything has been improved here. That alone would be a massive negative for me considering the price being asked.

Glad my phone gets at least 2 days, sometimes 3 on a charge. It makes such a difference.

People will hate anything Apple brings... And tone down anything new.

Because it's Apple, 64bit is stupid... Because it's Apple, a better camera is useless, and I could go on and on...

Go buy that cheap plastic Samsung S4 if you don't like Apple product!

Huge markup? The iPhone does not cost more than any other new phone (on contract)... And other than the screen size (yes people will pocket 6" screen RIGHT!) this new iPhone is cutting edge, it's not old tech.

Logic seems to go away when hate moves in when talking Apple.

Look at the financial statements. Where do you think that margin came from? Why would a company 22nd in revenue be 1st in market cap? The only reason is extremely high margin. Sorry but angry personal attacks won't change the fact you're getting ripped off. I see the 80s proprietary hardware model was skipped too.

Spicoli said,
Look at the financial statements. Where do you think that margin came from? Why would a company 22nd in revenue be 1st in market cap? The only reason is extremely high margin. Sorry but angry personal attacks won't change the fact you're getting ripped off. I see the 80s proprietary hardware model was skipped too.

Samsung charges just as much markup on their galaxy line as Apple does. Other companies only wish their phones could have such a demand so they could charge more.

EVERY company out there focuses on profits!

Spicoli said,
Actually it would be "because it's Apple it has a huge markup and sticks to the backwards 80s proprietary hardware model."

It's a model Microsoft is now basically reverting back to with their Surface and acquisition of Nokia.

Spicoli said,
Look at the financial statements. Where do you think that margin came from? Why would a company 22nd in revenue be 1st in market cap? The only reason is extremely high margin. Sorry but angry personal attacks won't change the fact you're getting ripped off. I see the 80s proprietary hardware model was skipped too.

You're not very good with numbers, are you? How much does the 5S cost under contract? And how much does the S4 or Lumias cost under contract? Your blinders are ripping off your brain...

TruckWEB said,
Go buy that cheap plastic Samsung S4 if you don't like Apple product!

Or the cheaper still plastic iPhone 5c. Oh wait, that's still Apple.

You're exactly right, TruckWEB. Spicoli has done a great job in demonstrating how people will be mad at Apple for anything, including making a profit... you know, something all companies strive to do.

.Neo said,
It's a model Microsoft is now basically reverting back to with their Surface and acquisition of Nokia.

Sounds like it. Nothing wrong with that though if they do it right.

Please validate that distortion field comment that it is cutting edge technology. What precisely is "cutting edge"?

I tell you its a turn up for the books now that there appears to be "Apple haters" Now they can see how it is with the shoe on the other foot.

Having said that I think Apple just needs to get parity with the competition and then take a step forward and all will be well but at this rate if I was Apple I would start to worry about my declining market share. Whist it has very healthy sales it is losing by a large margin and in some markets is actually being overtaken! That would never have been dreamed of 3 years ago.

Where was innovation ever claimed? You must be in the crowd of bystanders who expect every Apple product to change the face of the Earth. Get over it...

After years of minimal innovation from a company that built a reputation and a huge stock price on being innovative can you blame folks asking the question?

It is now well behind the competition and I don't mean CPU specs.

I don't know why people are expecting a new phone. Apple has always done 2 releases a year of their product. The first release is new and the second is a refresh in hardware. The Macbook line and iMac line has been following this for years. Apple has a solid phone design, no need to make drastic changes to it. Just look at the Mac Pro, Macbook Pro and iMac they havent had drastic changes for years now, its been mostly minor improvements. Apple is one of the few companies making quality aluminum phone. I'm still partial to my Lumia's poly carbonate shell, but Apple is making headway on that now

HTC did a fantastic job, and thats why its a premium phone. If anything Apple is one of the reasons many companies like HTC have gone aluminum instead of plastic.

as147 said,
Nokia Lumia 925 is Aluminum bodies and very thin.

Actually it's not. It just uses an aluminum antenna in a polycarbonate body.

Specifically, the 5S's CPU is 40x as fast as the 5...
I always hate when companies do this.
You need to qualify your claims or don't make vague assertions about performance.

Lord Method Man said,

Then why does the article say "the 5S's CPU is 40x as fast as the 5"

What article? This is a live keynote presentation!

"The CPU performance is 40 times faster than the original iPhone! Whoa"

stevan said,
You should learn to read. It's 40x faster than the original iPhone.

Exactly. And WHO touts a spec comparison that goes back that far?

It's like Motorola saying their latest phone is 10,000 times faster than the DynaTAC...

stevan said,

What article? This is a live keynote presentation!

"The CPU performance is 40 times faster than the original iPhone! Whoa"

Yea, all the live posts I have seen state its faster than the iPhone 5...not the original iPhone. Why compare something new with a several year old device?

techbeck said,

Yea, all the live posts I have seen state its faster than the iPhone 5...not the original iPhone. Why compare something new with a several year old device?


Sites are reporting both... From what I'm reading, it sounds like they were referring to the original iPhone, but who knows...

techbeck said,

Yea, all the live posts I have seen state its faster than the iPhone 5...not the original iPhone. Why compare something new with a several year old device?

I don't know, why comment without reading?

stevan said,

I don't know, why comment without reading?

I am reading, dont assume I am not. If sites are reporting it wrong, or saying both things...that is one thing and i am sure it will be cleared up soon. But dont assume something when sites are reporting one thing and others are reporting another.

EDIT: And now some posts are being updated, 5x faster than the 5....and 40x faster than the original iPhone. So there, its cleared up. But dont rag on people because many sites were posting/getting it different. Move on.

M_Lyons10 said,

Sites are reporting both... From what I'm reading, it sounds like they were referring to the original iPhone, but who knows...

Some sites were screwed up. 5x than the 5, 40 times than the original

techbeck said,

I am reading, dont assume I am not. If sites are reporting it wrong, or saying both things...that is one thing and i am sure it will be cleared up soon. But dont assume something when sites are reporting one thing and others are reporting another.

EDIT: And now some posts are being updated, 5x faster than the 5....and 40x faster than the original iPhone. So there, its cleared up. But dont rag on people because many sites were posting/getting it different. Move on.

Sorry it's my bad. I figured that people that post on technology forums are somewhat smart about TECHNOLOGY. Therefore I presumed that no one would EVER read into "40x faster than last years tech" and believe it to be true.

I mean of course they would be talking about the original iPhone and not the 5.

stevan said,

Sorry it's my bad. I figured that people that post on technology forums are somewhat smart about TECHNOLOGY. Therefore I presumed that no one would EVER read into "40x faster than last years tech" and believe it to be true.

I mean of course they would be talking about the original iPhone and not the 5.

If people were reading it wrong, then that is one thing. Sites posted the wrong damn thing. Get over it, move on. You are making a big deal out of nothing.

And it is Apple, so its not that far fetched that people will believe what they say.

techbeck said,

If people were reading it wrong, then that is one thing. Sites posted the wrong damn thing. Get over it, move on. You are making a big deal out of nothing.

Geesh...get over it already.

Haha relax buddy, it's just a forum.

Like I already said, i'm not confused that someone read something wrong, but that someone believed something like that.

stevan said,
...Therefore I presumed that no one would EVER read into "40x faster than last years tech" and believe it to be true...
Because companies never overstate performance claims. Right?

stevan said,

Like I already said, i'm not confused that someone read something wrong, but that someone believed something like that.

Its Apple...people will believe anything. I normally wait until it is released and reviews are giving an was just commenting on what other sites were saying.

techbeck said,

Its Apple...people will believe anything. I normally wait until it is released and reviews are giving an was just commenting on what other sites were saying.

True.

techbeck said,
Yea, all the live posts I have seen state its faster than the iPhone 5...not the original iPhone. Why compare something new with a several year old device?

As a means of comparing how far we've come. I have no idea why, but anytime Apple says anything, people here get so fed up and angry. I have no idea...

dead.cell said,

As a means of comparing how far we've come. I have no idea why, but anytime Apple says anything, people here get so fed up and angry. I have no idea...

I dont know about anyone else, but Apple presentations come off as new, exciting, innovating, a complete game changer...when it really isnt. And Jonny Ives talking kinda annoys me. But hey, to each their own. Everyone cannot like everything and vice versa.

techbeck said,

I dont know about anyone else, but Apple presentations come off as new, exciting, innovating, a complete game changer...when it really isnt. And Jonny Ives talking kinda annoys me. But hey, to each their own. Everyone cannot like everything and vice versa.

How many times faster is the GTX Titan than a 3dfx Voodoo PCI card?

To move the technology forward. Same as desktop processors when they went 64 bit. No one wants to see technology being stagnang like it is with Windows Phone.

stevan said,
To move the technology forward. Same as desktop processors when they went 64 bit. No one wants to see technology being stagnang like it is with Windows Phone.

What mobile apps need 64 bits to run? Just curious. Also curious where WIndows Phone is stagnating with technology? I seem to recall a Windows Phone with quite a hefty camera on it... Oh shoot what was it... oh yeah NOKIA.

stevan said,
To move the technology forward. Same as desktop processors when they went 64 bit. No one wants to see technology being stagnang like it is with Windows Phone.
Your reasoning is based on there being some perceived demand to push the technology forward. When the desktop moved to 64bitness it was for a reason -- most prominently was memory limitations at 4GB, since a 32bit register can only address 4GB of ram. Phones are still a few years from offering devices with ram over 4GB, as well as the demand for it.

This was entirely about marketing.

The same ones that didn't need dual core or quad core processors. According to apple it's easy to switch apps to 64 bit and ios7 is 64 bit optimized. so if it helps with speed without sacrificing battery life, why complain about?

stevan said,
To move the technology forward. Same as desktop processors when they went 64 bit. No one wants to see technology being stagnang like it is with Windows Phone.

Can you give a real example of a need for 64 bit? I mean, iOS is hardly Android, requiring beefy hardware in order to not stutter... And mobile apps certainly don't need it...

Ignoring your dig at Windows Phone (which also doesn't need it) it appears a lot of people don't understand what 64 bit is...

ahinson said,
Your reasoning is based on there being some perceived demand to push the technology forward. When the desktop moved to 64bitness it was for a reason -- most prominently was memory limitations at 4GB, since a 32bit register can only address 4GB of ram. Phones are still a few years from offering devices with ram over 4GB, as well as the demand for it.

This was entirely about marketing.

Memory was one of the reasons but not the only reason. And why should there be a reason to move technology forward?

So Apple decided to use 64bit tech and it's purely for marketing reasons? It's like saying the only reason you posted that garbage was purely for bumping up your post count

stevan said,
To move the technology forward. Same as desktop processors when they went 64 bit. No one wants to see technology being stagnang like it is with Windows Phone.

Don't confuse low hardware requirements with "stagnation". You're just buying into "MORE NUMBERS = BETTER!"

Dot Matrix said,
So we needed a 64 bit processor for... reasons?

You of all people keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how we need to keep technology moving forward and people who don't like it, need to adapt to change. So Hush!

SirJimmyOfRussell said,

Don't confuse low hardware requirements with "stagnation". You're just buying into "MORE NUMBERS = BETTER!"


+1

warwagon said,

You of all people keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how we need to keep technology moving forward and people who don't like it, need to adapt to change. So Hush!

The demand for Windows on tablets is real. The demand for x64 phones... is where? It's nothing more than a marketing gimmic, same as multicore processors.

Dot Matrix said,
So we needed a 64 bit processor for... reasons?


Reminds me the times when Apple released computers with 64bit power pc CPUs.

they claimed 64bit was revolutionary, that Intel CPU were outdated in comparison, then two years later, they moved from 64bit power PC cpus to 32bit Intel core duo cpus...

morality: 64bit doesn't mean faster. The x86 architecture of the Intel chips turned out to be more scalable than 64bit PPC, and PPC cpus lagged behind intel's CPUs even though they were 32bit.

furthermore, 64bit software is never twice as fast as 32bit software running on the same 64bit CPU.

apple is just saying bull****. Typically, the performance benefits from moving to 64bits are between 0 and 30%.

Dot Matrix said,
What mobile apps need 64 bits to run? Just curious.

If you actually read into the subject through the live blog on Engadget (per example) you would have known.

link8506 said,


Reminds me the times when Apple released computers with 64bit power pc CPUs.

they claimed 64bit was revolutionary, that Intel CPU were outdated in comparison, then two years later, they moved from 64bit power PC cpus to 32bit Intel core duo cpus...

morality: 64bit doesn't mean faster. The x86 architecture of the Intel chips turned out to be more scalable than 64bit PPC, and PPC cpus lagged behind intel's CPUs even though they were 32bit.

furthermore, 64bit software is never twice as fast as 32bit software running on the same 64bit CPU.

apple is just saying bull****. Typically, the performance benefits from moving to 64bits are between 0 and 30%.

You keep going on and on about how if we didn't keep moving forward we would all still be on windows 3.1 or Windows 95. Well same goes for CPU's. In 5 years time the same will probably be said.

Edited by warwagon, Sep 10 2013, 6:19pm :

link8506 said,


Reminds me the times when Apple released computers with 64bit power pc CPUs.

they claimed 64bit was revolutionary, that Intel CPU were outdated in comparison, then two years later, they moved from 64bit power PC cpus to 32bit Intel core duo cpus...

morality: 64bit doesn't mean faster. The x86 architecture of the Intel chips turned out to be more scalable than 64bit PPC, and PPC cpus lagged behind intel's CPUs even though they were 32bit.

furthermore, 64bit software is never twice as fast as 32bit software running on the same 64bit CPU.

apple is just saying bull****. Typically, the performance benefits from moving to 64bits are between 0 and 30%.

QFT

link8506 said,


Reminds me the times when Apple released computers with 64bit power pc CPUs.

they claimed 64bit was revolutionary, that Intel CPU were outdated in comparison, then two years later, they moved from 64bit power PC cpus to 32bit Intel core duo cpus...

morality: 64bit doesn't mean faster. The x86 architecture of the Intel chips turned out to be more scalable than 64bit PPC, and PPC cpus lagged behind intel's CPUs even though they were 32bit.

furthermore, 64bit software is never twice as fast as 32bit software running on the same 64bit CPU.

apple is just saying bull****. Typically, the performance benefits from moving to 64bits are between 0 and 30%.

So there ARE performance benefits to 64bits after all? You guys made it seem like Apple was going backwards with this announcement.

stevan said,

So there ARE performance benefits to 64bits after all? You guys made it seem like Apple was going backwards with this announcement.

There's never a performance increase when apps aren't compiled to take advantage of it. Is Apple going to recompile every app in the AppStore? May be some day, but until then it'll do nothing for performance. Even after that has been done, chances are there will be zero benefit. This is feature creep at this point, since it's not necessary or in demand.

stevan said,

So there ARE performance benefits to 64bits after all? You guys made it seem like Apple was going backwards with this announcement.

yes there are benefits, but in itself 64bits doesn't guarantee visible performance gains for the user.

64bit doesn't mean either that it will be faster than ANY 32bit ARM cpu.

it's likely that some high end 32bit ARM cpus currently on the market are still faster in some tasks.

The real interest of 64bit chips is the ability to address more than 2GB of ram. I'm pretty sure apple will want to release an ipad with 4gb of ram next year, so they need to be ready.

link8506 said,
...The real interest of 64bit chips is the ability to address more than 2GB of ram...
4GiB, not 2GiB.

32-bit CPUs use 32-bit addressing, since each address is 1 register wide or 1 word. Each word is 2^32, or 4,294,967,296 or 4 gibibytes. Generally this is the theoretical limit based on design limitations but other considerations come into play, since most modern OSs reserve addressing for hardware memory requirements. In practice, actual limits can be lower, but 2GB seems too low.

Edited by ahinson, Sep 10 2013, 7:04pm :

warwagon said,
You of all people keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how we need to keep technology moving forward and people who don't like it, need to adapt to change. So Hush!

Came to say the exact same thing. Bravo, kind sir!

Dot Matrix said,
The demand for Windows on tablets is real.

Which must be reason why Microsoft is struggling to sell their Surface and Surface Pro. It must also be the reason why the company slashed prices on the former to rock bottom. All that because people are just itching to get a Windows-based tablet.

.Neo said,

Which must be reason why Microsoft is struggling to sell their Surface and Surface Pro. It must also be the reason why the company slashed prices on the former to rock bottom. All that because people are just itching to get a Windows-based tablet.

They're not selling THAT poorly, but whoever put in the order to manufacture that many wasn't very smart. I hope the new ones are good enough to get me to buy one.

stevan said,
The same ones that didn't need dual core or quad core processors. According to apple it's easy to switch apps to 64 bit and ios7 is 64 bit optimized. so if it helps with speed without sacrificing battery life, why complain about?
Because they are butthurt that they have weak, underpowered phones with a horrendous UI that will max out at 10% marketshare.

Dot Matrix said,

The demand for Windows on tablets is real. The demand for x64 phones... is where?

I didn't see a demand for tablet apps on the desktop, but you know, boom, Windows 8.

It's nothing more than a marketing gimmic, same as multicore processors.

Have fun with your single core processors, I guess. Let's not move technology forward. We all know that when the first 64bit Windows Phone device comes out, you'll be in here fanboying it up.

Oh just the camera yeah!?
NFC, inductive charging, some flair with actual colour, solid build (doesn't crack at the mere possibility of being dropped), best in class screen when the range topper came out), bigger screen. Need I go on?

Enron said,
They're not selling THAT poorly, but whoever put in the order to manufacture that many wasn't very smart. I hope the new ones are good enough to get me to buy one.

They are selling THAT poorly, there's really no way around it. Even at heavily reduced prices Microsoft didn't manage to sell as much as they'd liked to see.

64bit arm processors are going to be more useful for tablets that could use the extra ram that it allows. The speed improvements will mean more to the 5s then its 64bit feature. Unless there is some other feature that requires that.

Otherwise, this phone is an evolutionary update. Again, its not a huge deal, but it is what Apple has to do to keep up hardware wise with Android. For anyone running an iPhone 4, this is a nice upgrade for them.

For iPhone 5 owners, its not so big, unless your one of the buyers that must have the latest and buys a new cell phone every year.

Spicoli said,
So all they could come up with for a new novelty is an ancient fingerprint scanner?

Phones and laptops have had them for over ten years and nobody uses them. So as always Apple slaps on a useless feature and call it "new" and "innovative" when it is the biggest load of crap ever.

Nogib said,

Phones and laptops have had them for over ten years and nobody uses them. So as always Apple slaps on a useless feature and call it "new" and "innovative" when it is the biggest load of crap ever.

Please show us where they claimed it was "innovative"...
And while you're at it, please show us another product that uses a scanner in the same way.
Just another mindlessly uninformed comment...

Nogib said,

Phones and laptops have had them for over ten years and nobody uses them. So as always Apple slaps on a useless feature and call it "new" and "innovative" when it is the biggest load of crap ever.

Why wouldnt anyone use it when it makes the experience of unlocking the phone, and purchasing apps/music/etc. much more secure and easier at the same time?

Astra.Xtreme said,

Please show us where they claimed it was "innovative"...
And while you're at it, please show us another product that uses a scanner in the same way.
Just another mindlessly uninformed comment...

The Motorola ATRIX featured a fingerprint reader that doubled as a power button and that phone was released in April 2011.

With that said, just because a feature is old doesn't mean it's useless. I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from using their fingerprint to quickly unlock their device.

Spicoli said,
So all they could come up with for a new novelty is an ancient fingerprint scanner?

Don't forget the 64Bit. Truly mindblowing. Telling that even the die-hard fans like Astra are having trouble drumming up any excitement this time.

Anaron said,
The Motorola ATRIX featured a fingerprint reader that doubled as a power button and that phone was released in April 2011.

With that said, just because a feature is old doesn't mean it's useless. I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from using their fingerprint to quickly unlock their device.

People get too emotive over Apple's way of advertising. They like to use buzzwords and make it seem like they've invented something, or it's some magical new tech.. that tends to annoy people.

Anaron said,
The Motorola ATRIX featured a fingerprint reader that doubled as a power button and that phone was released in April 2011.

With that said, just because a feature is old doesn't mean it's useless. I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from using their fingerprint to quickly unlock their device.

The Atrix required a swipe in an awkward position. Big difference. What Apple made requires no extra effort from the user, which is a major step forward in the tech. There's essentially no reason not to use it.

Astra.Xtreme said,

The Atrix required a swipe in an awkward position. Big difference. What Apple made requires no extra effort from the user, which is a major step forward in the tech. There's essentially no reason not to use it.

They've also replaced the problematic home button at the same time. I've never had problems with mine but I know many people run into broken home buttons at some point.

dr_crabman said,

Don't forget the 64Bit. Truly mindblowing. Telling that even the die-hard fans like Astra are having trouble drumming up any excitement this time.

Well look who crawled out of their cave... You were saying...

Astra.Xtreme said,

The Atrix required a swipe in an awkward position. Big difference. What Apple made requires no extra effort from the user, which is a major step forward in the tech. There's essentially no reason not to use it.
Actually, the power button/fingerprint reader was positioned there to make it easy to use with your index finger. It's not awkward unless you want to use your thumb instead of your index finger.

At the top of the device you'll find the power/lock button, which doubles as a fingerprint scanner. If it were a mere button, we wouldn't be too happy with the location - it's not in the usual place to say the least. But as a fingerprint scanner, it's in a very comfortable position for your index finger.

http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_atrix_4g-review-589p3.php

Well my point still stands such that it wasn't convenient for the user, hence why the feature didn't find it's way onto other products.

I'm assuming that if Apple's method works well, everybody else will copy it and passcodes will essentially die off.

No point arguing Astra. I suppose that many here think that there were so many innovations from the Galaxy S3 to the S4.

Astra.Xtreme said,
Well my point still stands such that it wasn't convenient for the user, hence why the feature didn't find it's way onto other products.

I'm assuming that if Apple's method works well, everybody else will copy it and passcodes will essentially die off.

Astra.Xtreme said,

The Atrix required a swipe in an awkward position. Big difference. What Apple made requires no extra effort from the user, which is a major step forward in the tech. There's essentially no reason not to use it.

What Apple bought.

Just because it wasn't used on laptops doesn't mean the same will happen with smartphones. However only time will tell. My suspicion is that it wont be a massively popular feature.

People expect Apple to be innovative (regardless of whether they said they would be or not). For the last few years they clearly haven't been. Will that hurt them ! Well I would say a definite yes as their declining market share shows.

The thing is that its not hard for them to keep up buy they have steadfastly kept away from one of the biggest trends - larger screens (no pun intended).

They are having their buts handed to them on this alone.

Its like the old Samsung advert says "This year we are finally getting everything we didn't get last year!"

Well we are still using a letterbox style display, no NFC, no inductive charging, slow getting worldwide 4G

http://youtu.be/nf5-Prx19ZM

Edited by as147, Sep 11 2013, 9:32am :

Astra.Xtreme said,
Well my point still stands such that it wasn't convenient for the user, hence why the feature didn't find it's way onto other products.

I'm assuming that if Apple's method works well, everybody else will copy it and passcodes will essentially die off.

I'll admit, it's a pretty cool feature. I wouldn't pay a premium to get it but if I had a phone with it, I'd definitely use it.

Passcodes won't die off because there are people that wouldn't want to use their fingerprint.

ManMountain said,
The performance increase is news to me.

It shouldn't be. Performance increase should be expected. Now then, none of that is coming from the move to 64-bit mind you. In fact, 64-bit doesn't really add anything at this point in smartphones at all. Seems like a grab just to have something else as a bulletpoint because they couldn't come up with enough different otherwise for this.

Nogib said,

It shouldn't be. Performance increase should be expected. Now then, none of that is coming from the move to 64-bit mind you. In fact, 64-bit doesn't really add anything at this point in smartphones at all. Seems like a grab just to have something else as a bulletpoint because they couldn't come up with enough different otherwise for this.

I hate to say this. However 64bit can be useful in any device, if used properly.

The problem with 64bit is more perception, as various companies have taken a public stance saying 64bit as having little benefit, including Apple before they supported 64bit.

64bit is often seen as just a larger addressable RAM space, etc. However depending on how it is implemented in the OS and the CPU architecture, there are often a lot of performance improvements, even if they are not a 100% increase in speed.

In a mobile device, 64bit could reduce RAM writes/reads, especially if hosing 32bit software. Windows x64 when running 32bit software can combine reads/writes making it more efficient and faster.

I say all this with one caveat...

I have no information that iOS is even properly running with 64bit code, let alone employing any of these technologies to get more out of a 64bit CPU.

Apple marketed their 64bit Mac for several years before they even had a version of OS X that could allow software to use the 64bit address space, let alone years before they offered a 64bit version of OS X.
(Which was a great marketing lie. When not running 64bit code at the kernel/OS level, there is NO benefit.)


ManMountain said,
The performance increase is news to me.

well, it's a faster cpu with the same tiny screen and resolution, isn't it? makes sense

JHBrown said,
what exactly is sad?

It's the same tiny phone with an updated processor and a new color. If there was no 5C to announce then they didn't even need to have a whole event for this.

And the 5C is what the 5 would have cost if they didn't make the 5C. So they're just making the cheaper model worse than it used to be.

mrp04 said,

It's the same tiny phone with an updated processor and a new color.

You obviously are just commenting just to comment. So from now on when a Microsoft phone is released, it's just a slight processor upgrade, same thick phone. Unbelievable. What, is the phone suppose to run CAD?

JHBrown said,
You obviously are just commenting just to comment. So from now on when a Microsoft phone is release, it's just a slight processor upgrade, same thick phone. Unbelievable. What, is the phone suppose to run CAD?

No, other manufactures make phones in different sizes, screen resolutions, and add features like styli, NFC, an awesome 41MP camera, etc. They never release the same exact phone with a faster CPU.

mrp04 said,

No, other manufactures make phones in different sizes, screen resolutions, and add features like styli, NFC, an awesome 41MP camera, etc. They never release the same exact phone with a faster CPU.

So next year we can expect 50MP camera right? Nokia is so advanced that we can expect yearly performance leaps like none other?

mrp04 said,

No, other manufactures make phones in different sizes, screen resolutions, and add features like styli, NFC, an awesome 41MP camera, etc. They never release the same exact phone with a faster CPU.


EXACTLY! Apple has absolutely no imagination anymore.

JHBrown said,
So next year we can expect 50MP camera right? Nokia is so advanced that we can expect yearly performance leaps like none other?

Whatever it is, it'll be something more interesting than: CPU now faster.

Its the second release! Apple has always done a hardware refresh halfway through the year. The iPhone 6 will be the next change not this one.

What sucks is that people bash MS and WP for the same reasons your now defending against Apple and the iPhone. It works both ways.

M_Lyons10 said,

EXACTLY! Apple has absolutely no imagination anymore.

FWIW, it's probably unfair to look at an iPhone from a purely hardware perspective. Apple has spent over a decade pushing the concept of a unified software-hardware experience. As a mantra, it's been meaningful enough that Microsoft has also done what they can to integrate hardware development with software development more than they previously could.

It's likely that the iPhone 5S is augmented by iOS 7 in a way that earlier models won't _entirely_ replicate, and that packaged experience is what Apple will be marketing, anyway.

If nothing else, it _is_ just the 5S, after all. In automobile terms, all they really had to do was throw a spoiler on it.

You are both part of the problem, it takes two to argue.

Anyway, regarding the 5S, I really don't like that champagne color. Anything that close to gold just screams gaudy to me. I much prefer the metallic gray color or black. Red is about the only 'color' that appeals to me for smart phones.

I like how the colors look on the 5C models though.

Haha, fair enough. I think it's about time they bring another original idea to market. I think that's why people are commenting as they are.

Joshie said,

FWIW, it's probably unfair to look at an iPhone from a purely hardware perspective. Apple has spent over a decade pushing the concept of a unified software-hardware experience. As a mantra, it's been meaningful enough that Microsoft has also done what they can to integrate hardware development with software development more than they previously could.

It's likely that the iPhone 5S is augmented by iOS 7 in a way that earlier models won't _entirely_ replicate, and that packaged experience is what Apple will be marketing, anyway.

If nothing else, it _is_ just the 5S, after all. In automobile terms, all they really had to do was throw a spoiler on it.


Joshie said,
Apple has spent over a decade pushing the concept of a unified software-hardware experience.

It's been their way since Jobs took back control of the company: a hardware and software monopoly completely under their control. No other devices will run their OS, and their content gateway is completely controlled via iTunes. They *must* to have a unified experience to maintain this control.

Some people praising Apple now, would bash MS for 8.1 because they 'perceive' a difference even if no difference exists.

Much of the arguing is over perception, not reality. So people say 8.1 is a nothing upgrade because that's what they see and people say the 5S is a nothing upgrade because that's all they see.

How about inductive charging and a larger screen, the first is innovative and the second is default demanded. Yet Apple stick to that tiny letterbox screen. They are getting their buts handed to them by the Galaxy and other large screened phones.

Instead they promote a different inductive consortium and don't even adopt it and stick to their tiny screen.

as147 said,
How about inductive charging and a larger screen, the first is innovative and the second is default demanded. Yet Apple stick to that tiny letterbox screen. They are getting their buts handed to them by the Galaxy and other large screened phones.

Instead they promote a different inductive consortium and don't even adopt it and stick to their tiny screen.

First wouldn't be innovation. Lots of phones have had built in inductive charging.

I disagree. Apple is really innovative. They are innovative at marketing and getting the mass to buy their next phone that does not have anything new and worthy of an upgrade. Yet iSheep flock and buy the "NEW" phone. /s

It is ok though. Something has to keep Apple employees employed. Sooner or later people hopefully will get smart enough to know they are wasting their money by upgrading their iPhone and iPad.

When Apple releases a phone that doesn't change the face of the Earth: Where's the innovation? Apple is doomed! So bland! So uncreative! More of the same! blah blah blah...

When Samsung releases another plastic phone with a .2" bigger screen and more wasteful CPU clocks: Brilliant! So innovative! Best phone eva! Apple-killer!!111 blah blah blah...

Funny that it's the Apple haters and Android sheep that constantly misuse the word "innovative". It's gotten stale a long time ago...