During Apple's keynote event, the newly minted CEO, Tim Cook, took no time in slinging mud over towards the Microsoft camp. In describing the download rate for Lion, he called out Microsoft because Lion is having a faster adoption rate than Windows 7.
Tim Cook, via Engadget, proclaimed that "Windows 7 -- it took 20 weeks to reach 10 percent of the Windows install base. It took Lion two weeks." Going further, "Six million copies of Lion downloaded so far -- 80 percent more than Snow Leopard". These may not be direct quotes but contain the message of what he said at the event in terms of growth rate.
The comparison, which is far from fair, states that the adoption (of Lion) rate was much faster than Windows 7. Considering the inroads Microsoft has in the corporate world, comparing adoption rate is not a fair comparison. In this case, you can not compare direct adoption rates because Microsoft and Apple, while both make an OS, do not play in the same waters. If you removed corporate adoption, which always lags behind consumer adoption, the chart would likely tell a different story.
Further, Apple distributed the OS over its App store and it also cost far less than Windows 7. They removed the retail product, which did make it easier for users to obtain the OS. And finally, these are based on pure percentages, we all know that Microsoft has a much larger install base which equates to a slower adoption rate as well.
But, Apple will always slant the facts in their direction as it is their keynote. Always remember to take statistics with a grain of salt as we all know, it is possible to lie with statistics.
Comments (91)
ReplyDoubtful considering the difference in pricing.
The numbers are NOT slanted lol
Nice corporate spin right there...
Indeed not. They're outright fiction!
"Lol" is the new period, apparently, but I sure find it more efficient to just press a single key to end a sentence.
"Lol" is the new period, apparently, but I sure find it more efficient to just press a single key to end a sentence.
Nice corporate spin right there...
I agree that the context is poor, my question is are those numbers just installs via boot camp or for the entire Windows 7 userbase, Mac and PC?
Same here, lol
I have to agree. They are quite valid and are a good indicator of how well a company's efforts to get improvement out to users is going. The fact that Microsoft does this poorly by charging exorbitant sums for their improvements and having a bad distribution channel is a poor excuse.
compare to actual numbers not percentage... oh wait forgot it's Apple
Why would they do that if they want the proportion of users adopting their new products, amongst their respective ecosystems?
that's a shady way to prove their point...
And let's be clear...Apple USERS are furious about the major problems with Lion.
How sad it is for Apple when the only good news they can present about the Lion release is an outright line of BS...
And let's be clear...Apple USERS are furious about the major problems with Lion.
How sad it is for Apple when the only good news they can present about the Lion release is an outright line of BS...
Genuine question, what are the major problems with Lion? I'm personally loving it, especially the gestures
And let's be clear...Apple USERS are furious about the major problems with Lion.
Looks like facts are being "slanted" all over the place today.
6 millon copies of Snow Leopard. Which is 80% of Leopards install base. Not bad when there are only probably 9 million copies out there. Seeing as Windows is installed on over 100 million computers (and possibly more) worldwide I don't see the connection. They should stop tooting their own horn so much. You can't even compare the two.
100 million copies? Microsoft announced recently that they have sold over 450 million copies of Windows 7 alone.
It would definitely take much longer to reach 10% of 1 billion then it would to reach 10% of say 9 million. So really it's irrelevent. Anyone with a basic grasp of middle grades math would know that.
there is over 1 billion pc world wide by the way!!!!!!
there is over 1 billion pc world wide by the way!!!!!!
Actually, over 1.5 billion Windows PCs used in the world. Windows 7 is hitting at about .5 billion alone.
If you do the math, there are more PCs currently running JUST Windows 7, than all the Macs/iPhones/iPads ever sold combined.
So Apple talking about 'adoption rates' is like the a kid's lemonade stand explaining that their batch of lemonade is better and sells faster than Minute Maid.
oops sorry wrong quote
It would definitely take much longer to reach 10% of 1 billion then it would to reach 10% of say 9 million. So really it's irrelevent. Anyone with a basic grasp of middle grades math would know that.
+1
Yes, of course it would be interesting to compare actual NUMBERS and not poofy percentages. I have a feeling that 10% of Windows numbers are more than 80% of OS X numbers.
(Hey, I have 3 macs running OS X and 2 PCs running Windows 7, and one in the closet that might be running 8 soon).
But it doesn't matter really. People like their Apple products for what they are and people who use Windows use it for a their own reasons...
But it doesn't matter really. People like their Apple products for what they are and people who use Windows use it for a their own reasons...
Basically, they're saying that OS X users are less reluctant than Windows users about upgrading. Absolute numbers would never be able to prove that, you need a %.
Wow, an Apples to Microsoft report... /pun
Windows 7 is used in businesses, so there is usually a process quite more involved than just "Insert Upgrade Disc Here"... that is, corporate world doesn't transition into software overnight, they do assessments to make sure their existing processes/software are not affected.
but Windows 7 is an OS and Lion is a service pack... :-)
lol
lol
Lion brings more (or bigger?) features to the OS in general than Windows 7 brought to Vista. Just because they didn't call it Mac OS XI doesn't mean it's a service pack, it's just a damn version number.
Lion brings more (or bigger?) features to the OS in general than Windows 7 brought to Vista. Just because they didn't call it Mac OS XI doesn't mean it's a service pack, it's just a damn version number.
Such as? I felt Lion and Win7 were equally significant to their predecessors.
Lion brings more (or bigger?) features to the OS in general than Windows 7 brought to Vista. Just because they didn't call it Mac OS XI doesn't mean it's a service pack, it's just a damn version number.
Wow. You can't be serious. Win7 is VASTLY different then Vista. What new features did Lion introduce that would NOT make it just a service pack.
All of them. Have you really ever seen a service pack on Windows actually adding new features? The only one I can think of was XP SP2, bringing the new WiFi connections window. It was nice from them, but for a feature it was rather small. Service packs bring fixes.
All of them. Have you really ever seen a service pack on Windows actually adding new features? The only one I can think of was XP SP2, bringing the new WiFi connections window. It was nice from them, but for a feature it was rather small. Service packs bring fixes.
Good god man!! Microsoft almost NEVER includes new features in service packs because that's not what Microsoft designs them for.
Good god man!! Microsoft almost NEVER includes new features in service packs because that's not what Microsoft designs them for.
So why should Apple release all their new features in Service Packs and not Microsoft ?
It's a psychological problem, really. Because it's called Mac OS X 10.7 and not Mac OS XI :-\
lol
It is still OS"X". When will it actually change to OS"XI"?..... They just keep adding "Apps" and calling it "New" features and functionally. These new features and functionalities are not really "Embedded" in to the OS. OS"X" 10.9 will be so bloated that it won't be worth it anymore.
Same old os for so many years.... dont Mac owners get bored?
It is still OS"X". When will it actually change to OS"XI"?..... They just keep adding "Apps" and calling it "New" features and functionally. These new features and functionalities are not really "Embedded" in to the OS. OS"X" 10.9 will be so bloated that it won't be worth it anymore.
Gestures, Resume and Versions are not embedded at a OS level? News to me
the UI just works on XP too... my point was wont you get bored of using the same UI.
Lion brings more (or bigger?) features to the OS in general than Windows 7 brought to Vista. Just because they didn't call it Mac OS XI doesn't mean it's a service pack, it's just a damn version number.
Really, there are over 5,000 changes between Vista and Windows 7, do you really want to make this argument?
Just because Microsoft doesn't list "Updated Dialog Box" in their 'features' list, does not mean they don't exist. Just in the kernel alone there are over a 100 changes between Vista and Windows 7.
This comment is so out of reality, just... Holy freaking idiocy batman.
Lion brings more (or bigger?) features to the OS in general than Windows 7 brought to Vista. Just because they didn't call it Mac OS XI doesn't mean it's a service pack, it's just a damn version number.
Really, there are over 5,000 changes between Vista and Windows 7, do you really want to make this argument?
Just because Microsoft doesn't list "Updated Dialog Box" in their 'features' list, does not mean they don't exist. Just in the kernel alone there are over a 100 changes between Vista and Windows 7.
This comment is so out of reality, just... Holy freaking idiocy batman.
Exactly, cause if was the 'new way of thinking' to break the mold in the 80s, they couldn't possibly advance the UI technology any more.
Seriously, an OS that this has a freaking Menu Bar at the top, should cause users to question how 'advanced' the OS and UI model is.
Menus were a kludge to get a large number of features and commands into a Graphical UI. It is not a true 'graphic' UI metaphor even, as it first existed in CLI/Textual UIs.
Wow, if you believe what you wrote, I feel sorry for your myopic view of the world and the potential for computer user interaction advancements.
When people would claim that Apple didn't have many apps, the Apple fans would cry that the number of apps is not important.
Now the number of apps is the most important thing.
When people would compare the bottom line of Apple and Microsoft, it was not about money, but the user experience.
Now the bottom line and stock price is the most important thing.
When people would compare the number of Windows copies sold compared to OSX copies sold, it was good that there were fewer copies because it kept it exclusive to just the Mac faithful.
Now the number of copies of (insert Apple product name here) sold is the most important thing.
Now the number of apps is the most important thing.
When people would compare the bottom line of Apple and Microsoft, it was not about money, but the user experience.
Now the bottom line and stock price is the most important thing.
When people would compare the number of Windows copies sold compared to OSX copies sold, it was good that there were fewer copies because it kept it exclusive to just the Mac faithful.
Now the number of copies of (insert Apple product name here) sold is the most important thing.
Never thought of that, quite true to be honest.
Now the number of apps is the most important thing.
When people would compare the bottom line of Apple and Microsoft, it was not about money, but the user experience.
Now the bottom line and stock price is the most important thing.
When people would compare the number of Windows copies sold compared to OSX copies sold, it was good that there were fewer copies because it kept it exclusive to just the Mac faithful.
Now the number of copies of (insert Apple product name here) sold is the most important thing.
+1
Now the number of apps is the most important thing.
When people would compare the bottom line of Apple and Microsoft, it was not about money, but the user experience.
Now the bottom line and stock price is the most important thing.
When people would compare the number of Windows copies sold compared to OSX copies sold, it was good that there were fewer copies because it kept it exclusive to just the Mac faithful.
Now the number of copies of (insert Apple product name here) sold is the most important thing.
However, I've always disliked the way Apple talks about their competition, as if they are the better company, offer the better product, are selling more than others, etc. Instead of focusing on their products features alone and why the user should benefit from buying it.
six mill lion licenses so far compared to hundreds of millions of windows 7 licenses.... ugh gota love fact skewing
+1 While we're comparing things, let's see the chart for how long it takes Lion to get to the number of licenses sold of Windows 7 in the first 6 months... I'm sure I'll be waiting a while...
Tim should have posted like this... it took Windows 7 a day to sell as many copies as Apple sold on 1 months.
Looks like Cook learned from the con man "Jobs'
He forgot to mention that Lion is still OSX, just a service pack. Much easier to install a service pack. Did cisco even fix the VPN client for Lion yet?
Cisco "Fix" something? I'm still waiting for them to "fix" their QuickVPN Client to support "Vista"...
reality distortion field is still operating at full power
The distortion field is outright levitating at the moment. #1 selling desktop? Or was that #1 desktop, or in our opinion the best desktop so it's #1 in our heads? I'm confused, the room is starting to levitate, my eyes are getting glassy. Speak Tim speak, speak, speak.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
HAHAHAHAHA
At the very least, they could have compared a single laptop to a single laptop, not their entire pro lineup against a single laptop.
Also, the "Macbook Pro" has been sold since 2006. Of course comparing 5 years worth of sales of 3 different brands (13,15,17) is going to net higher sales than a single model that probably won't survive more than 9 months before being replaced with a higher model number.
This isn't the first time Apple have slanted their stats in an attempt to make a point.
+1
My friend has a mac, she never upgraded from Tiger to a newer osx.
and you know what? she couldn't use Tiger anymore for alot of stuff, some software didn't even worked for tiger anymore.
so obviously people would upgrade, in these cases. and its not a secret osx is cheaper than Windows.
of course my friend thought Lion was exactly the same, not many changes more than she could use some stuff that wasn't supported by Tiger anymore
of course my friend got a Windows 7 laptop now, and she is so happy. and she doesnt have to upgrade if she doesn't want for some years. but she liked Windows 8 so she might upgrade to it.
so good for Apple i guess? if these percentage make them feel good, then.... its a good way to feel good about their osx. even of course it doesn't sell like Windows but they can lie themselves to believe something different.
Further, Apple distributed the OS over its App store and it also cost far less than Windows 7.
That statement is false. It's just a marketing trick, you buy the computer with a full OS priced at near $400 ~ $450 US, and then they sell you the fantasy that you are upgrading to a new OS for a very low price, when you have already bought it by paying for the expensive machine.
Seriously, who bloody cares. I use Windows 7 and I could care less how much faster OSX users adapted Lion. Same vice versa.
Good gravy. If Microsoft released Windows on an app store like that and got the adoption rate that Lion got it would bring the entire inter-webz to a crashing halt... So, while we're comparing, where's Apple's chart that shows off their amazing market share in the desktop?
As far as I remember the market share of Windows 7 surpassed the market share of Mac OS X even before it was released. Or maybe it was on the first day.
/thread
Beside the employees in the corporation and the stockholders, why do consumers really care who adopted faster? I could care less if apple adopted a million times faster, I just want a good product.
You also have to take into account how quickly apple drop support for non current products.
So if you didn't upgrade you no longer have support patches etc.
Apple is basically trolling
Welcome to marketing, people...
They aren't lying about the info, so who cares? Typical Neowin flame bait it seems...
They aren't lying about the info, so who cares? Typical Neowin flame bait it seems...
Aren't lying about the info, don't make me laugh. I suppose you have a credible source for that information, not some figures from Apple that a 2 year old could have written down in about a minute.
Keep drinking the Apple Kool Aid, it seems to be working for ya.
Aren't lying about the info, don't make me laugh. I suppose you have a credible source for that information, not some figures from Apple that a 2 year old could have written down in about a minute.
Keep drinking the Apple Kool Aid, it seems to be working for ya.
Are you serious? Enough with the cliche "kool-aid" remarks. Grow up... It makes you looks like an unintelligent 5 year old...
Lion is cheap and easily accessible to the small market share that makes up OS X. If you honestly can't believe that a huge percentage of that market would spend $30 to upgrade to the latest OS, then that's your own problem. It's common sense considering Apple's marketing scheme, but you clearly don't have a bit of business sense, so I wouldn't expect you to see past your Anti-Apple blinders...
Alive and strong as ever the Apple RDF is. /yoda
It's easy to reach your install base when your overall userbase is a fraction of Windows 7. Same ol' **** from Apple; love the devices, hate the company.
how much of the desktop os market do they have? enough said.
Apple basically forces you to upgrade, whereas Microsoft provides long term support (see Windows XP). Apple tends to pull the rug from under you if you don't have the latest OS.
Also, Apple users are generally enthusiasts/cult members who are used to shelling out money on command, whereas a lot of people with cheap PCs tend to get their new OS when they buy a new PC.
They are going for PERCENTAGE of users upgrading, not the amount of users
buying it. That's hilarious, because Apple has a very small marketshare.
In raw number, Apple is actually insignificant. Even Vista, "the failed Windows" is still so much bigger than them after so many years.
This is typical Apple. There is such a hufe twist in this figure, as if they are saying that more people use Lion than Windows 7!
My question is: did the audience when nuts when he presents that fact?
Now, Apple even resorts to rate comparison. This is so cheap...
Now, Apple even resorts to rate comparison. This is so cheap...
From what I read in the liveblogs, there wasn't a whole lot of excitement in the crowd at all
Misinformation.... ffs Apple... I guess your customers are idiots. =3
Lol 6 million. 10% ay? Apple use some numbers on your charts. Lets see if Lion got 10% market share...ohh wait....
Yeah, they are comparing the time it took Lion to get 1% marketshare (10% of 10%) to the time it took for Windows 7 to get 9% marketshare (10% of 90%).
"Further, Apple distributed the OS over its App store and it also cost far less than Windows 7. They removed the retail product, which did make it easier for users to obtain the OS."
Which I'm sure is what Apple is partly bragging about. Easier to get, cheaper to get, and it worked. It was even very measurable success over previous OSX versions, and that comparison removes most of the other points this article makes.
There's so many things wrong with that statistic, not to mention every friend I know who owns a Mac is still on OS X 10.6 or less. Not to mention the step from OS X 10.6 to 10.7 is more like Windows RTM to SP1.
And I bet that Linux users upgrade to the latest version a lot faster than Mac...Does that mean Linux is better?
(Written from Fedora 15)
All this shows is that Mac users must not be the most intelligent group of people if they can't see that this is rubbish.
I cannot wait until Apple fall from their tree
LOL... I am sure MS is concerned about a company with 6% of the PC OS market. Yawn...
MS gonna Craplolstomp them very soon!
"it took 20 weeks to reach 10 percent of the Windows install base. It took Lion two weeks."
It also took Windows 7 two weeks to overtake the whole Mac market share, so what?
I am sorry but, isnt Windows at 80% of the market and Mac at 5%? So you can see that when you talk percentages Mac looks bigger. if out of 10 users, 5 have adopted mac os something, then that is a wooping 50%!!
Seriously, get a life. Also, compete with Windows on features and not statics trying to pass on the idea that the Mac is bigger when it clearly isnt. And on that note, compete with mobile phone manufacturers once again with new devices and innovations rather than lawsuits
Typical Apple. Not surprised at all. Bash and make false comments in order to make yourself look better. Its the Apple way.
This is all. You people defending Apple, im sick and tired of you. You are of sub intelligence and there is no understanding your desire to protect a company which overcharges you for their products. I mean seriously did your parents drop you down the emergency stair case of the empire state building. Do not respond you would be wasting your, and what is infinitely worse is my time.
Here's some real world stats:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201010-201110
There are three things in this world - There are lies, god damn lies, and finally we have statistics.
Apple doesn't do what to say or how to react to their product that doesn't do so well against a competing OS that totally dominates computers.
all those numbers really show is how much people love windows xp and are hesitant to move on and how much people hated snow leopard and couldn't wait to to get rid of it.