Apple delaying Leopard until October

Cnet's News.com is confirming a previous article from DigiTimes about the release of Leopard being delayed until October. Well, partially at least. Apple has announced the company is delaying the next release of Mac OS X, but not for the same reasons as DigiTimes' industry sources supposedly claimed. Because of the push to get the iPhone out by June, Apple was forced to pull engineers from the Leopard development effort and reassign them to the iPhone. As a result, Leopard won't be finalized until later this year, and only a preview version will be available at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference in June.

"While Leopard's features will be complete by then (June) , we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October," Apple said in a statement.

Link: Forum Discussion (Thanks Novaoblivion)
News source: News.com

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For all the waiting that I'm doing, I sure hope that this new version is simply amazing. It seems like they have been taking forever in getting this one done. I suppose that Leopard will essentially be a year younger than Vista.

so when AMD delays the release of the R600 series graphcs cards with plenty of good business reasons everyone flames them but when Apple denies a late release of Leopard only to say that it actually was true a few weeks later with no reason given for the delay everyone who flames them gets called MS fanboys.

what could possibly take them so long to begin with, theyve had over a year and they still need an extension, lets go over what they have to develop to make this amazing new OS: time machine - i thought osx doesnt get viruses or crashes?, updated versions of mail, ichat, dashboard, spotlight, ical, and accessibility - WOWIE!!!, 64 bit - I thought it already had 64 bit support?, core animation - with all 10 of those games that run on mac a version of OpenGL that wasnt modified by Apple simply wont do!

There are still the "top secret" features which may be causing the delay, including possibly 3D and animated elements of the interface. As for Time Machine, it's not for viruses or crashes, it's for those third-party hard disks that sometimes fail.

Ok, everyone be nice to Apple....

Vista was delayed because MS changed the entire architecture mid stream, and also added in technology learned from the XBox 360 development.

MS only had to copy the 'pretty' stuff on screen from OSX, which both Win2k and XP were already capable of doing.

Apple on the other hand has a lot to do to copy many of the Vista features they are trying to implement, and these are not just copying pretty graphics on the screen, but are massive architectural differences and changes.

I know Apple is working hard to get Quartz Extreme enabled, so they have real accelerated graphics, something Vista does for even legacy GDI/GDI+ as well as WPF which is far ahead of Quartz in features already. I'm sure Apple is also tyring ways to copy the way Vista's composer works so that Apple doesn't have to use double buffering for the display, which causes a lot of latecy and why games running in a Window on OSX is significantly slower.

Then there is the whole architectual concepts of GPU scheduling and GPU virtualization that probably won't even make it into this or the next few OSX releases, give Vista quite the edge for 3D processing, especially when multi-core GPUs come out and Vista is the OS they work on.

Apple is also still trying to copy the Windows Shadow Copies with their time-machine idea. Although this has been available on Windows since 2003. So they need some extra support to get this feature working right.

Oh and don't forget all the other stuff they haven't even planned to copy, but are probably wishing they did. Like the search features, it would be nice if OSX could keyword and index Voice recordings and Ink like Vista does. Or give users a more secure browser than Safari that runs at user privledges. Also a fully transactional enabled FS would be nice, since Vista moved from basic journalling to even being able to rollback NTFS operations. And of course there are features like System Restore which fix a computer no matter how bad it gets hosed. This would have been really handy for Apple with their last update that left people with unbootable Macs, since stuff like this doesn't happen with the rollback system restore features in XP and Vista.

So everyone just be nice Apple, they didn't get their photocopiers started as fast as they should have, and even what features they were already ripping off of Vista were giving them problems anyway. Besides I would like to see Apple actually put some real changes into OSX in the UI area and maybe they will finally do this after 20 years. Menus are so 1984, and especially a single menu bar.

:)

Neomac v6 said,
They both copy each other, only Apple's end product is invariably better.

Wow with jokes like these, you should go and post in the Jokes and Funny Stuff section

I hope Apple realizes how embarassing this is.

I really don't care if a product gets delayed and 4 months is no big deal. But Apple made such a stink about Vista's delays and now they are doing it themselves. The reason for the delay is irrelevant. The point is they are being completely hypocritical. Vista is delayed and you bash them until you're blue in the face, then you turn around and delay your competition to Vista?

Well, I guess that's just how Apple does business. And somehow they'll make it Ok and somehow it will still be a terrible thing that Vista was delayed but completely fine that Leopard was too.

The iPhone has the potential to be bigger than the iPod and make OS X the dominant platform for the mobile web. I don't blame Apple for giving it priority.

Are you serious?

It's too expensive to be anything big
It doesn't have enough features to be big (not to mention it is using "features" from last generation phones)
The platform is way too closed to 3rd party developers to be big (unlike WM5/6)

Not to mention the fact that the mobile market is going to be incredibely difficult to break into. The iPhone will flop miserably, and I will love watching it.

You're making the same old mistake of comparing features rather than implementation. Multi-Touch is the killer app (not to mention that in iPod mode it's more advanced than an actual iPod! )

If consumers are half as excited as the media it'll be a monster hit.

Neomac v6 said,
If consumers are half as excited as the media it'll be a monster hit.

The media would be excited if Apple tried to sell a steaming pile of dog crap.

Neomac v6 said,
You're making the same old mistake of comparing features rather than implementation. Multi-Touch is the killer app (not to mention that in iPod mode it's more advanced than an actual iPod! )

Well based on implementation then, I still don't think it is a very good product. There is no tactile sensation when you "push" a key on the touchscreen. Personally, I think going completely touchscreen was a huge mistake: no touch typing, no tactile feedback, scratch the screen to hell with constant touching, smudge the screen to hell with constant touching, and here is another biggie, will the touch sensor work if you have a screen protector on?

Overall, I am far from impressed, and I don't think many people will want a new iPod that is more expensive than the current video iPod they have which. The iPhone is bigger than current gen of iPods, smaller capacity, for a much higher price, oh, and you get the wonderful experience of being Cingular's bitch for 2 years. No thanks, I think that is too many negatives for the "normal" consumer.

Not to mention, the implementation includes making the iPhone closed to 3rd party developers, which was a huge (and horrible) mistake. The implementation also includes the god awful decision to not make the battery replaceable, that one is just unacceptable if you're a business user who might go through 2 batteries in a day (especially considering the battery life on the iPhone will suck).

Some valid points. Though Mac users would argue Apple apps are usually better than third-party apps anyway. The iPhone will likely still work with a screen protector (iPod clickwheels still work through a thin membrane). And you're right, this will probably appeal to consumers more than business users. But then, that's where Apple's focus is nowadays anyway.

I can't be Assed to list the various kernal panics I have encountered buy just moving my logitech mouse to wake up the Macbook from sleep.

Yeah its that disappointing....

This is a macbook 2ghz core 2 duo 2gb of ram machine.

The rams fine.

Before the update it was fine, after the update it made it "funny"

I have a g4 and a toshiba laptop running vista and i bet 10 to 1 that when the os x update come out it will be top notch. In my opinion vista was not but you can not compare these two systems. Unless you compare vista with the actual release of os x. Which in that case neither system was top notch. If you compare the vista release with the up coming os x release it is like comparing dvd to vhs its just not gonna happen. And to tell you the truth i run vista 99% of the time and my wife runs the os x box 1% so i guess you could call me a switcher.

Neomac v6 said,
If OS X is so good why did you switch to Vista?

Simple because even though OSX is good, Vista is great.

That and the (serious) reason of games. I think thats why most people switch back.

Ouch... I thought they confirmed no more than a month ago that it was still scheduled for Spring... what's happening now :(

Hope it doesn't turn into a delay game like Vista. 4 months is enough already.

Leopard is going to be late by 4 months. Vista was late by years. Leopard is still shipping withe features that were promised (plus Apple again hinted that there are top secret features yet to be revealed), while Vista had several features cut after being announced to the public (WinFS for example).

Big difference people.

The time period is obvious. What people are talking about is how Apple has loved talking about Microsoft delaying their products (no matter how big a time period it is) and Apple turns around and is doing the same thing.

If this doesn't work out, I'll agree with you, but everyone whose hopes of a new UI (todays news of Aluminum means nothing, hopefully it's a placeholder) were crushed when it never came has been given a new hope. If we get that new UI, then all of your comparing will be worth nothing, since a big thing was added as opposed to a big thing being cut.

simon360 said,
If this doesn't work out, I'll agree with you, but everyone whose hopes of a new UI (todays news of Aluminum means nothing, hopefully it's a placeholder) were crushed when it never came has been given a new hope. If we get that new UI, then all of your comparing will be worth nothing, since a big thing was added as opposed to a big thing being cut.

The UI for MacOS to OSX isn't that much new you know, it's more evolutionary then a big revolutionary jump. No different from the UI changes done from win2k to XP and now Vista. If they bring out a totally redone UI from scratch, then maybe this delay says something. But if come Oct, it just has some more tweaks and newer iApps, I won't be impressed.

I have a problem with people comparing Vista cutting features to OS X for this reason. Microsoft is upfront and tell us everything they plan on putting into the next OS. As time goes on they may realize some of these features are more difficult to implement than they imagined and delays which they have already made (which I am not trying to excuse) force them to cut out those features. Apple will tell us of a few features and when the product is released, unleash a few "surprises". Well how many "surprises" did they work on that they cut out. It isn't fair to compare.

Am I a fan of Microsoft promising something they can't deliver, no but at least we know what we are eventually getting.

I dont see why its so hard for people to believe its because of the iPhone...

It may not be, but it is entirely plausable.

If true then it shows they don't care for the people who've been waiting for Leopard. Just when people think it's getting ready to come out, Apple comes out and says "Nope, wait til October. We're working on this phone you probably don't care about"

Pulling developers off Leopard to put them on the iPhone means they are rushing the iPhone out. If I had any plans to get that phone, after hearing this I'd change my mind. I wouldn't want something they rushed to get out while tuning their backs on the Leopard crowd.

osirisX said,
Probably means no iLife and iWork until October either :(


Aaargh! If I had known then what I know, I would've bought iWork '06 when I bought my MacBook back in Sept.

Joseph21 said,
oh come on... fanboys were like it's going to delayed it like VISTA, now its.

sweet mother of neowin....what are you trying to say?

Joseph21 said,
oh come on... fanboys were like it's going to delayed it like VISTA, now its.

What the heck are you saying?!?!

Guess Steve and Co. over at Apple forgot to buy fuel for their time machine, so they could time jump to October and retrieve the finished product and bring it back to today...

Makes you wonder if the Vista part of the rumor from a little while ago is true. They were right about October.

And saying they pulled developers off Leopard to get the iPhone out the door just tells me they're rushing it and would make me not want to use it.

Except that Apple has already released BootCamp 1.2 which includes full Vista compatibility. It even supports more hardware than the original XP BootCamp.

I know that so there's no reason to get your panties in a bunch, alright? I swear you can't make a single comment about Apple these days without someone taking it the wrong way.

I never said the Vista part was true and if you read the frontpage article of that original story you'll see that I never believed that. I'm just saying, it makes you wonder since they was actually right about them delaying it until October. Is it because it has soemthing to do with Vista? Doubt it, but there might be something nobody knows.

It is ok be cause we pulling engineers to work on a phone?

Wow, what a reason.

Delayed to October is delayed to October whichever way you look at it.

Wait, what? I remember hearing this guy named Steve bashing Microsoft because their product was late. So what's this? Can't be right.

Oh yeah, and of course it is all because of the iPhone. I believe them (gives a very sarcastic wink towards the monitor) :P

Go ahead and say that, but be ready for us to come back with a comparison of a few months and a few years.

<fanboy>And one could also say Vista was catching up to OS X 10.4</fanboy>

Yes, Vista was indeed a little more late than a few months. :p

But I knew this comment would come from Windows users. It's all so predictable.

Vista was also an ever so slightly bigger update than Leopard... but I guess that doesn't count since it's apple.

and MS didn't just play catch up, they leaped past.

Jugalator said,
Yes, Vista was indeed a little more late than a few months. :p

But I knew this comment would come from Windows users. It's all so predictable.


Ahh yes, us Windows users, so predictable aren't we. It's nice to see that people forget the fact that apple doesn't have to support anywhere near the number of hardware setups and even software compatibility that Windows has to. If MS was only making Vista for a specific set of hardware like a mac, we wouldn't have driver delays and it would've been out sooner. This really isn't an Apples to apples comparison at all.

But hey, who cares, we don't need to bring up any facts here.

Jugalator said,
But I knew this comment would come from Windows users. It's all so predictable.
What's so funny is I'm actually using my iMac right now. So how's the fanboy now

Well, let's see... another Apple "service pack" for their OS X, comapred to a new Windows with re-written code..

Yeah, you're right, Apple's older OS X with 4 service packs is MUCH more innovative than the newer, re-written Windows Vista.

And let's not forget that somehow, Vista which has been released, has stolen all its new ideas from Apple's unreleased Leopard software... even though factual evidence proves many Windows features were developed before Apple implemented similar features in their software.

It's amazing what Apple has convinced its customers of.

C_Guy said,
Well, let's see... another Apple "service pack" for their OS X, comapred to a new Windows with re-written code..

Yeah, you're right, Apple's older OS X with 4 service packs is MUCH more innovative than the newer, re-written Windows Vista.

And let's not forget that somehow, Vista which has been released, has stolen all its new ideas from Apple's unreleased Leopard software... even though factual evidence proves many Windows features were developed before Apple implemented similar features in their software.

It's amazing what Apple has convinced its customers of.

Hmmm.... yes, "service pack". A new backup program, virtual desktops, new UI (yes, see the latest build), resolution independent UI, doubling the features of Mail, compared to what? A couple of bugfixes and (in the case of SP2) some nice security additions (SP2 was big, but not Leopard, Tiger, Panther, etc.).

Oh, did I forget Core Animation, which (with Core Image and the other "cores") goes far beyond what WPF can do? That'll make some nice applications. This is a bigger release than it looks. And nothing has been cut yet.

(simon360 said @ #6.8)
Oh, did I forget Core Animation, which (with Core Image and the other "cores") goes far beyond what WPF can do? That'll make some nice applications. This is a bigger release than it looks. And nothing has been cut yet.

:D Core Animation is just a piecie of junk - can be compared to Directx 7 or 8 hehe

superhuman said,
:D Core Animation is just a piecie of junk - can be compared to Directx 7 or 8 hehe

OpenGL is good enough for things that need the more advanced animation. Core animation makes it easier for the smaller things AFAIK.

I hope Apple feels a little stupid for all the anti-Vista PR they've been making lately. How ironic to see their own wonderful OS being delayed, too.

True ture, but I want the quality to be high, and you know it's going to be higher than vista was when it came out. Still, I can't wait, and hope Apple doesn't make any more microsoft-like moves with this product.

Hurmoth said,
Oh but you must remember, they're not a software company, they are a hardware company. :laugh:

RIIIIIIIIIGHT. They build their own CPUs? No. The Motherboards? No. The Video cards? No. The Memory? No. Optical drives? No. The case? Maybe.

/sarcasm off

For reals, I like Apple. I hope this delay is worth it for them and end users. By that time I can afford a new iMac (my G3 aint cuttin the mustard, or the cheese, for that matter). Any word on quad booting OS X, Vista, XP, and Ubuntu? Can that be done? It would be nice to run all my favorite OSes on one machine.

^ Maybe I should have stretched my Oh out a little bit but I was being sarcastic too.

But regardless, does Dell make any of that stuff? No, but they are still considered a hardware company.

Hurmoth said,
^ Maybe I should have stretched my Oh out a little bit but I was being sarcastic too.

But regardless, does Dell make any of that stuff? No, but they are still considered a hardware company.

They don't make an OS to go with "their" hardware. That's the difference. :-)

OHHHHHHHHHH.. and.. I build all my PCs. I can't stand Dell. Pure garbage.

RAID 0 said,
Any word on quad booting OS X, Vista, XP, and Ubuntu? Can that be done? It would be nice to run all my favorite OSes on one machine.

Yup - at least I've done it on my PC anyway. Not sure about a real mac :P

(RAID 0 said @ #5.5)
OHHHHHHHHHH.. and.. I build all my PCs. I can't stand Dell. Pure garbage.
Right and what does that have to do with whether or not Apple is a hardware company?

Seems like a silly thing to do.
iPhone might be cool but I think it will have a slow start if it does become popular. It has a seriously long contract, only available on one network.. in one country, PLUS it's an expensive price. From a European perspective it's only got one old low res camera, is 2.5G and unless it's updated before it comes here much later in the year... it's going to have some serious competition from cheaper, smaller, better looking devices.

There are probably many more people waiting to buy an updated Macbook or iMac .. that comes with Leopard + iLife, iWork... than there are waiting for an iPhone.

:O! I did not know iphone was only 2.5g! However looking at the phone, it does already seem dated in some way, theres not much space on it either, there are tons of better phones out already!

But it will sell just because its apple.

give them a beta copy to take home so people can hack and know enough about the kernel can do their hackintoshs i iHac, and ship Leopard in October, when everybody with a P965 PC will be using it.

:P

I think we all knew it was inevitable.

I really dont see what all the hype is with the iPhone though, its mainly nothing a WM device hasnt been able to do for years, with a few extra shiny bits, and an excedingly large "web 2.0" style price tag

I really dont see what all the hype is with the iPhone though, its mainly nothing a WM device hasnt been able to do for years, with a few extra shiny bits, and an excedingly large "web 2.0" style price tag

That's funny, that's the exact same thing people were saying when the iPod debuted.