Apple unfazed by Windows 7 launch, says Analyst

The launch of Windows 7 on October 22 is unlikely to cause any significant damage to Mac sales, according to Wall Street analyst Brian Marshall of Broadpoint AmTech.

Marshall came to this conclusion by analysing the impact of previous Windows launches on Mac sales. In his study, he compared the sales trends of Macintosh computers around the times of the launches of Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows Vista.

In every case, except for the launch of Windows 2000, Marshall found that Mac sales either remained stable or in fact increased. Upon the launch of Windows Vista, Mac sales increased by a higher percentage than after any other Windows launch to date.

Marshall attributes Apple's stability to its size, which allows it to run unharmed by the impacts of larger players. "As they get bigger over time", Marshall continued, "that will change, however". A market share of 10% is likely to be the turning point for Apple where sales will be impacted by large product launches from competitors, according to the analyst.

While this might all seem like speculation, Marshall is a highly respected analyst on Wall Street and is noted for correctly predicting Apple's return to historical growth levels in the previous quarter of 2009. This further indicates Apple's resilience to the same market trends having significant impacts on growth in other computer technology companies at this time.

He predicts that Apple will soon release growth figures that show an increase in sales of 7% in the July to September quarter compared with the same time last year.

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The PC market is just too different from the Mac market... They're people looking for two very different things, so I wouldn't expect it to impact sales much...

I dont think either OS fears the other
Windows has its market(average users, gamers)
Mac has developers, some average users, ppl who think photoshop is a videogame

MS has pretty much nothing to fear from OSX, it's been out a good few years now and hasn't made any significant in roads, no reason to think that's going to change.

Apple seems less and less interested in the PC side of their business, hardware releases are less often these days and not usually that impressive (even worse for pro users and Mac Pro's). They seem to only care about the ipod/iphone, hardly surprising when it makes the most money.

Devices like the iPod/iPhone are also perfect showcases of Apple's philosophy and why they will never be a true PC competitor. They make appliances, not computers.

I love reading these arguments.
Without a doubt the best reply is from Shiranui.

No, you don't understand. Snow Leopard is Apple's attempt to out-do Microsoft yet again: this time in the "reduce-Apple's-marketshare" department.

"Think different"

ARG! The threads in this article are getting me mad. Windows should be able to bundle, photo editing software, movie making software, messaging software and all the rest of it if it wants to. It's their product!

I agree that they should, same as Apple can or a Linux distro. However they're only a download away and there's a link in the Getting Started section in the Start menu.

Apple doesnt care because they are making the money on the hardware.

Remember you can buy Windows 7 and install it on an apple also. Thats why they don't care.

Yeah, but then again, you can buy from a reputable oem like HP or Dell and get a good system for less.

They're making more selling iPods, iPhones and the rest of their gadgetry.

It doesn't matter what Apple thinks, fact is there are FAR more PC's than there are overpriced Apple computers being used. That speaks for itself. Good luck playing most popular games on your Apple.

Heard that the new version of Fusion improves DirectX but is slow even for aero, if that's true then won't be much help for games. Anyway Fusion requires a copy of Windows so don't follow your argument.

m.keeley said,
Heard that the new version of Fusion improves DirectX but is slow even for aero, if that's true then won't be much help for games. Anyway Fusion requires a copy of Windows so don't follow your argument.

It actually runs Aero pretty well. For running games though, I use XP.

I haven't tried Crysis yet but it runs Far Cry well.

stenorman2001 said,
It actually runs Aero pretty well. For running games though, I use XP.

I haven't tried Crysis yet but it runs Far Cry well.

Vmware Fusion WILL support aero (later this month)

Yes I know it will support aero, but I read a beta testers post on MacRumors saying that it's really slow. Obviously can't tell if that's true or not as it's not yet released.

ricknl said,
These all must be US figures. Their worldwide marketshare in nowhere near to 10%!

indeed it is. worldwide share is less than 0,5%.

I am beginning to feel old. I am old enough to actually remember when Windows 95 was released. They had kind of the same feelings. Microsoft previous releases had been based on dated Dos code, they were late to the game, Apple had System 7 and the like. They believed that with this and the RISC architecture they could regain 10% of the market. I didn't happen... they dropped like a rock. IBM OS/2 and Apple System 7 were pretty much out of the market within a year. It wasn't until Mac OS X 10.3 that Apple became semi mainstream again.

source: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/ads/magazi...ows/win95-apple

"Introducing Windows 95.
It lets you use more than eight characters to name your files. Imagine that.

Introducing Windows 95.
It lets you drop files anywhere you want on the desktop. Imagine that.

Introducing Windows 95.
It has a trash can you can open and take things back out of again. Imagine that.

Imagine this.

For people who don't use a Macintosh® computer, the most significant development in years has finally arrived. It's very big news. It's called Windows 95.

Yes, Windows 95 makes it easier for people to use their computers. It's a little more graphical. A little more intuitive. It even has a trash can.

In short, it makes a PC more like a Macintosh – you know, the Macintosh we built back in 1984. But compare a PC running Windows 95 to the Macintosh of 1995, and you'll discover a decade of difference.

A new kind of power.

In a recent independent study, for example, the RISC-based Power Macintosh™ 9500 outperformed a 120 MHz Pentium-processor-based PC running Windows by 63% on average. When running scientific and technical applications, the Power Macintosh advantage climbed to 80%. While for power-hungry graphics applications, the Power Mac™ was more than twice as fast.*

Why does the average person need this kind of power on his or her desktop? Because – as both Microsoft and Intel are quick to point out – graphics, multimedia and interactive media will play a huge role in the future of personal computing. What they don't point out, of course, is that Power Macintosh delivers the power you need for these advanced, processing-intensive applications, today.

A computer you can use.

Of course, all the raw power in the world is worthless if you can't use it. That's why every Macintosh is so easy to set up and use. That's why every new Mac™ includes an innovative help system that doesn't just answer your questions, but shows you what to do, where to click and what to type to get things done. And why we make it so easy to create Internet connections, install multimedia software and set up entire new networks from scratch.

The way beyond multimedia.

For many of the companies that design and manufacture PCs (or write operating systems for them), the biggest challenge of all is simply getting multimedia to work.

Meanwhile, ordinary people who turn on a Power Mac can do a lot more than run snappy new multimedia titles. They can create 3-D graphics, use voice recognition, videoconference across continents, even get started with virtual reality – all at the touch of a few keys and a click of a mouse. Because you can get these so-called "future" technologies in a Power Macintosh, today.**

A new choice.

The next time you hear the skeptics say, "But a Macintosh won't run the software we need," tell them this: There's now a Macintosh – the Power Macintosh 6100/66 DOS Compatible, to be specific – that runs everything a Macintosh can run, plus thousands of programs for Windows and DOS. Then, if they ask you about hardware compatibility, tell them how the PCI slots built into the new Power Mac accept standard PCI cards.

If they want to know more than that, tell them to look it up on the World Wide Web, at http://www.apple.com. Who knows, they just might get a peek at what Windows will look like in another decade or so. Imagine that."

bluarash said,
I am beginning to feel old. I am old enough to actually remember when Windows 95 was released.

Really? I still have my Microsoft Xenix and Windows 1.01 boxes/disks.

Sorry about that, it was merely a statement of personal reflection. As for Windows, I seen version 1 and 2. I really don't know much about Xenix. I know it was a 16 bit Unix based that was based on version 7. What version do you have?

Apple doesn't need to be concerned.

I mean can someone name a feature in Windows 7? Seems to me it's just UI sugar - and they still make you pay through the nose for it too.

Does Microsoft have a technology such as GCD? No.
Does Microsoft have a technology like OpenCL? No.
Can you cross-compile an application for both 32 and 64 bit on Windows? No.

If you want to go from 32 to 64 bit on Windows you have to REINSTALL the entire OS. That's crazy! For Apple users, we just upgrade as normal.

And who knows, Microsoft might lose the source code to Windows too. Haven't they heard of backing up?

Making the UI slicker and easier to use is a feature most welcome. As for new features I suggest you read the reviews/articles.

To answer your other points, as you obviously don't know much about Windows:

Grand Central Dispatch - Only concerns Devs, Visual Studio 2010
OpenCL - Only concerns devs, DirectX/Coda
Cross compile - Only concerns devs, Visual Studio

It's people who just upgrade rather than fresh install that are vulnerable to the data deletion bug.

Remains to be seen who's to blame over the Sidekick saga.

Does Microsoft have a technology such as GCD?

Yes it does, ever since like 2004 windows includes multicore operations. Was made better with vista, and even better on 7.

Does Microsoft have a technology like OpenCL?

Yes it's called CUDA. And before you go oh its only on nVidia. Ask yourself wheter you REALLY need this feature? The vast majority of people don't, and for the ones that do specialized software/hardware exists.

Can you cross-compile an application for both 32 and 64 bit on Windows?

Yes you can.

If you want to go from 32 to 64 bit on Windows you have to REINSTALL the entire OS. That's crazy! For Apple users, we just upgrade as normal.

Mac OSX isn't a 64bit os. It's a 32bit OS that allows 64bit apps to run. Big difference there.

And who knows, Microsoft might lose the source code to Windows too. Haven't they heard of backing up?

Didn't apple have HUGE problems with mobileme with people losing all their data..hmm. And haven't apple heard of testing? Logging into a guest account wipes user data...Good job.

stenorman2001 said,
Apple doesn't need to be concerned.

I mean can someone name a feature in Windows 7? Seems to me it's just UI sugar - and they still make you pay through the nose for it too.

If Windows 7 is just UI sugar then explain why it is faster than Vista ;). OS X on the other hand just got the ability to restore items when you delete them with SL...

I have a Macbook Pro and I love it but its not complete without Windows on it.

Actually I use Windows 7 and am a member of TechNet, so I think I know a bit about Windows.

To m.keeley,

Having read Paul Thurrot's comprehensive review of Windows 7 here is what he lists as major new features:

1) Aero snap - UI sugar
2) New taskbar - Oh wait, isn't that so much like the Dock now?
3) Progress Indicators in the taskbar - You can put whatever you want in Dock icons on Mac OS X
4) Jump lists - Snow Leopard has a similar feature
5) Libraries - Will anyone actually use this?
6) UAC - They made it less annoying and less secure!

Ummm, I don't think I missed anything there?

Now let's look at what it doesn't ship with:

Mail client: NO
Calendar client: NO
Movie Maker: NO
Messenger App: NO
Exchange Support: NO
Photo management: NO

To Rasorfold,

Microsoft does not have an implementation of GCD, you use threading and other multicore operations. They suffer the problems that GCD is specifically designed to avoid.

CUDA is an NVIDIA product as you said, and as such does not support AMD (ATI) graphics chips. OpenCL is graphics-card agnostic and yes, when programs take advantage of it there is a BIG difference.

I haven't seen any applications for Windows cross-compiled. You may be able to compile them both but not in the same executable.

Mac OS X is a full 64-bit OS, with a 64-bit kernel, 64-bit frameworks and 64-bit applications.

Apple's MobileMe service did have huge problems at the start, but that the loss of data was user's choosing the incorrect options while syncing.

----

So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.

0sm3l said,
If Windows 7 is just UI sugar then explain why it is faster than Vista ;). OS X on the other hand just got the ability to restore items when you delete them with SL...

I have a Macbook Pro and I love it but its not complete without Windows on it.

Windows 7 is faster but so is Snow Leopard, so no comparison there. They both got optimised.

And yes we got "Put Back" due to the Finder rewrite.

stenorman2001 said,

Windows 7 is faster but so is Snow Leopard, so no comparison there. They both got optimised.

And yes we got "Put Back" due to the Finder rewrite.

Sorry I had to =)


Having read Paul Thurrot's comprehensive review of Windows 7 here is what he lists as major new features:

1) Aero snap - UI sugar
2) New taskbar - Oh wait, isn't that so much like the Dock now?
3) Progress Indicators in the taskbar - You can put whatever you want in Dock icons on Mac OS X
4) Jump lists - Snow Leopard has a similar feature
5) Libraries - Will anyone actually use this?
6) UAC - They made it less annoying and less secure!


There's a huge amount of changes in 7, and vista for that matter, that the average user will not see or even know about. If you care enough to find out, go look through the documentation on MSDN.

At least microsoft doesn't list the new features in the os like apple does and go OH A NEW SEARCH CLIENT! A NEW DVD PLAYER!

Mail client: NO
Calendar client: NO
Movie Maker: NO
Messenger App: NO
Exchange Support: NO
Photo management: NO


Windows live essentials. A free download. Which I admit is kindoff a stupid idea but oh well.

But photo management does exist in 7.

As for exchange support, not everyone needs it. And for those that do, they would already have Outlook anyways.

CUDA is an NVIDIA product as you said, and as such does not support AMD (ATI) graphics chips. OpenCL is graphics-card agnostic and yes, when programs take advantage of it there is a BIG difference.


Name some programs. Go ahead. Does the 98% of users out there require specialized software and hardware dedicated for mathematical computations, or physics calculations, or code rendering? NO.

I haven't seen any applications for Windows cross-compiled. You may be able to compile them both but not in the same executable.


There is no need to have them in the same executable. Get one or the other, you don't need BOTH the 32bit app and 64bit app. If you have a 32bit OS, get 32bit apps. If you have a 64bit os, get 64bit apps, or if you want, install both.

Mac OS X is a full 64-bit OS, with a 64-bit kernel, 64-bit frameworks and 64-bit applications.


No it is not. http://www.macworld.com/article/142379/200...ard_64_bit.html

If you do a google search you will find out for yourself.

EDIT: sorry let me rephrase that. *It CAN be a 64bit os but for the majority of users, it won't boot into 64bit

Apple's MobileMe service did have huge problems at the start, but that the loss of data was user's choosing the incorrect options while syncing.


No it wasn't, almost everyone lost all their data and mobileme still remains riddled with problems.

stenorman2001 said,
Actually I use Windows 7 and am a member of TechNet, so I think I know a bit about Windows.

To m.keeley,

Having read Paul Thurrot's comprehensive review of Windows 7 here is what he lists as major new features:

1) Aero snap - UI sugar We all like sugar... well most people anyway
2) New taskbar - Oh wait, isn't that so much like the Dock now? Not really, Snow Leopard now lets you minimize windows to their corresponding icon, you could say the dock looks more like the taskbar now
3) Progress Indicators in the taskbar - You can put whatever you want in Dock icons on Mac OS X And? Progress indicators have nothing to do with this lol
4) Jump lists - Snow Leopard has a similar feature They wish, its just the same menu for every app
5) Libraries - Will anyone actually use this? I do
6) UAC - They made it less annoying and less secure! Less annoying than having to type a password, but somehow I don't see people complaining in OS X

Ummm, I don't think I missed anything there?

Now let's look at what it doesn't ship with:

Mail client: NO
Calendar client: NO
Movie Maker: NO
Messenger App: NO
Exchange Support: NO
Photo management: NO

YES to all of the above, but since Microsoft has most of the marketshare they are not allowed to include it in the OS or they get sued. Windows Live Essentials
----

So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.

SL is not a big deal, 29 bucks seems fair enough.

stenorman2001 said,
Actually I use Windows 7 and am a member of TechNet, so I think I know a bit about Windows.

To m.keeley,

Having read Paul Thurrot's comprehensive review of Windows 7 here is what he lists as major new features:

1) Aero snap - UI sugar
2) New taskbar - Oh wait, isn't that so much like the Dock now?
3) Progress Indicators in the taskbar - You can put whatever you want in Dock icons on Mac OS X
4) Jump lists - Snow Leopard has a similar feature
5) Libraries - Will anyone actually use this?
6) UAC - They made it less annoying and less secure!

Ummm, I don't think I missed anything there?

Now let's look at what it doesn't ship with:

Mail client: NO
Calendar client: NO
Movie Maker: NO
Messenger App: NO
Exchange Support: NO
Photo management: NO

To Rasorfold,

Microsoft does not have an implementation of GCD, you use threading and other multicore operations. They suffer the problems that GCD is specifically designed to avoid.

CUDA is an NVIDIA product as you said, and as such does not support AMD (ATI) graphics chips. OpenCL is graphics-card agnostic and yes, when programs take advantage of it there is a BIG difference.

I haven't seen any applications for Windows cross-compiled. You may be able to compile them both but not in the same executable.

Mac OS X is a full 64-bit OS, with a 64-bit kernel, 64-bit frameworks and 64-bit applications.

Apple's MobileMe service did have huge problems at the start, but that the loss of data was user's choosing the incorrect options while syncing.

----

So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.


No the superbar isn't a dock clone, Google it and there are articles explaining why. What about other things like muti-touch support, better performance, better power management, homegroup....

VS2010 adds .net extensions, IDE support and debugging for parallel processing, there's your GCD

Mail, movie maker etc are now free downloads rather than default installs, don't see how that's bad.

Not all of SL is 64bit, there are a number of 32bit apps including QT.

DirectX now incorporates CUDA style programming so works on ATI.

Who cares if it's a fat binary or 2 binaries, you only want to install one or the other.

As it stands you were robbed of that $29!


Just because you have access to Technet, doesn't mean you know anything about Windows, or even spent 5 minutes Googling a few things.

The reasons that 7 doesn't have things like Mail, etc built-in, is partly because of the EU, it adds bloat, and they are positioning themselves to Live.

And OSX doesn't come with a movie app either, iMovie is part of iLife - iLife just happens to come with new Macs.

And while SL may be fully 64-bit capable, I can not run the 64-bit kernel on my Mac, even though it has a 64-bit CPU, because it has a 32-bit EFI.

As for OpenCL, there is DirectX 11. You could make the argument that you need particular hardware in order to take advantage of DX11, but the same can be said of Apple, as you need a relatively new Mac, or else you're SOL.

GCD is basically a fancy name for thread pooling. Yeah, it does more than that, but it's not Windows doesn't some rudimentary form of thread pooling already, and they will adding to ith with .Net 4.0, and its Parallel Extensions.

OpenCL-like functionality is included with DirectX 11, so, yes, Windows does include something quite similar to OpenGL.

As for GCD, they're basically just fancy thread pools. Linux doesn't have them, but Windows has had OS-wide thread pool managment capabilities since either Windows 2000 or NT 4. Some of the fancy features added on top are included with the CCR stuff, which you can go and get right now. That runtime is included with .NET 4.0.

OK I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to bag Windows 7, I think it is an excellent release. So is Snow Leopard.

I think it's silly not to include basic Mail and Calendaring features in the OS, even if they gave the user to choice whether to install them or not. I do not agree with the EU in making Microsoft pull features out of Windows. It's their product - not the EUs.

All of OS X is cross-compiled for 32 and 64-bit, but in 64-bit mode the only app that is still 64-bit (that ships with OS X) is iTunes.

In regards to DirectX, I would much rather Microsoft merge OpenGL and DirectX together. The problems they are having with the EU is mostly because they thought their stuff was better and went out of their way to make sure people would use their stuff and not others. I would include DirectX, Windows Media, Internet Explorer, .Net etc.

I do object to a couple of things with Windows 7, mainly that the price is a little high for what you get and the number of SKUs are still to confusing. They should have 1 business one and 1 home one.

Visual Studio is an excellent product and I'm using the 2010 beta currently, but again why do you have to pay for it?

It's amazing to me that Steve Jobs is able to make people believe that things that are new to OSX are new to the world. OpenCL is the same thing as CUDA, and now DirectCompute in W7. GCD is the same as Windows' thread management for 8+ years now, and a small subset of what VC++ 2010 / .NET 4 brings with parallel extensions.

I do object to a couple of things with Windows 7, mainly that the price is a little high for what you get and the number of SKUs are still to confusing. They should have 1 business one and 1 home one.

Visual Studio is an excellent product and I'm using the 2010 beta currently, but again why do you have to pay for it?


Theres:

- Windows 7 home premium (Home users)
- Windows 7 professional (business users)
- Windows 7 ultimate (both the above)

as for vs being paid for, its a hell of a lot more powerful than xcode. Free coding apps exist, but none come close to the power vs offers you. And if you're a student you get vs free

Does Microsoft have a technology like OpenCL? No.

Wrong. DirectX 11 DirectCompute is Microsoft's variant of CUDA/OpenCL. A ton of other new stuff came in with DirectX 11, and all the new ATI cards that started hitting NewEgg in September support it.

There's a huge amount of changes in 7, and vista for that matter, that the average user will not see or even know about. If you care enough to find out, go look through the documentation on MSDN.

At least microsoft doesn't list the new features in the os like apple does and go OH A NEW SEARCH CLIENT! A NEW DVD PLAYER!

Yes there are so why do people keeping saying the Mac OS X 10.6 isn't a major update with some great new features?

Windows live essentials. A free download. Which I admit is kindoff a stupid idea but oh well.

Yes - damn EU.

But photo management does exist in 7.

It does? The Photo Gallery app was placed in Windows Live.

As for exchange support, not everyone needs it. And for those that do, they would already have Outlook anyways.

True but it is kinda odd that you have to pay for Outlook to get Exchange support.

Name some programs. Go ahead. Does the 98% of users out there require specialized software and hardware dedicated for mathematical computations, or physics calculations, or code rendering? NO.

I can't because they haven't been written yet, but there are a number of companies who will be taking advantage of it in the future. It's still good to put it in there - developers won't write for it unless it is.

There is no need to have them in the same executable. Get one or the other, you don't need BOTH the 32bit app and 64bit app. If you have a 32bit OS, get 32bit apps. If you have a 64bit os, get 64bit apps, or if you want, install both.

True but why make the user choose? Why should they care? Why do they need to know the difference?

No it is not. http://www.macworld.com/article/142379/200...ard_64_bit.html

If you do a google search you will find out for yourself.

EDIT: sorry let me rephrase that. *It CAN be a 64bit os but for the majority of users, it won't boot into 64bit

It doesn't boot into 64-bit mode by default for compatibility - the same reason why Microsoft still offers and 32-bit and 64-bit version of Windows.

No it wasn't, almost everyone lost all their data and mobileme still remains riddled with problems.

As someone who subscribed to .Mac and then MobileMe, I didn't lose any data during the transfer or encounter any issues.

stenorman2001 said,
True but it is kinda odd that you have to pay for Outlook to get Exchange support.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't each Exchange CAL include an Outlook license? So if your server is properly licensed, you should be licensed to use Outlook.

JonathanMarston said,
It's amazing to me that Steve Jobs is able to make people believe that things that are new to OSX are new to the world. OpenCL is the same thing as CUDA, and now DirectCompute in W7. GCD is the same as Windows' thread management for 8+ years now, and a small subset of what VC++ 2010 / .NET 4 brings with parallel extensions.

GCD is certainly not thread management. Perhaps someone needs to read the docs at http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/.

DirectCompute does indeed look similar, but why does Microsoft insist on not using the standard?

stenorman2001 said,
So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.


Wow you paid $29 on top of the 1000$ extra for a apple logo for your slow ass computer.


Good work man,

stenorman2001 said,
Actually I use Windows 7 and am a member of TechNet, so I think I know a bit about Windows.

To m.keeley,

Having read Paul Thurrot's comprehensive review of Windows 7 here is what he lists as major new features:

1) Aero snap - UI sugar
2) New taskbar - Oh wait, isn't that so much like the Dock now?
3) Progress Indicators in the taskbar - You can put whatever you want in Dock icons on Mac OS X
4) Jump lists - Snow Leopard has a similar feature
5) Libraries - Will anyone actually use this?
6) UAC - They made it less annoying and less secure!

Ummm, I don't think I missed anything there?

Now let's look at what it doesn't ship with:

Mail client: NO
Calendar client: NO
Movie Maker: NO
Messenger App: NO
Exchange Support: NO
Photo management: NO

To Rasorfold,

Microsoft does not have an implementation of GCD, you use threading and other multicore operations. They suffer the problems that GCD is specifically designed to avoid.

CUDA is an NVIDIA product as you said, and as such does not support AMD (ATI) graphics chips. OpenCL is graphics-card agnostic and yes, when programs take advantage of it there is a BIG difference.

I haven't seen any applications for Windows cross-compiled. You may be able to compile them both but not in the same executable.

Mac OS X is a full 64-bit OS, with a 64-bit kernel, 64-bit frameworks and 64-bit applications.

Apple's MobileMe service did have huge problems at the start, but that the loss of data was user's choosing the incorrect options while syncing.

----

So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.

you paid 29$ for osx and the $30k to get your mac :P
also libraries are actually handy, makes it easier to share to my media center and the rest of the laptops and pcs spread across the house =]

stenorman2001 said,
GCD is certainly not thread management. Perhaps someone needs to read the docs at http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/.

DirectCompute does indeed look similar, but why does Microsoft insist on not using the standard?


who cares , both Nvidia and ATI agreed to use it

that sum it up

I got bored half way down, but I paid £50 for full retail of Windows 7.

Snow Leopard is £25 but it is only an upgrade and requires Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard either came pre-installed (and part of your system cost) or you bought it for something like £100 (which again was an upgrade and required Mac OS X... (etc. etc.)

Beliefs OS X is cheaper is highly mis founded.

stenorman2001 said,
So keep trying guys, Windows 7 isn't that big a deal. Oh, and btw - how much do you have to pay to get everything? I paid $29.


I got Windows 7 Ultimate for free, and Vista Business for free before that (and yes, they're full, legal copies, and no, I'm not a student). Seems like Microsoft always has some kind of special promotion going on...

stenorman2001 said,
GCD is certainly not thread management. Perhaps someone needs to read the docs at http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/.

DirectCompute does indeed look similar, but why does Microsoft insist on not using the standard?

Of course GDC is thread management. I think YOU better read up on that technology. GDC manages threads under the hood so you as a developer don't have to concern yourself with it.

MS has two similar libraries at the moment - TPL (or PFX if you will) and CCR. Both of them abstracts away from having to deal with threads directly and they take care of issues like locks and race conditions.

CCR and GCD seems to be quite similar. They both aim to utilize the available processor resources on a system so your application scales automatically with better hardware.

DirectCompute is a part of DX11 and the implementation of compute shaders. It is aimed at utilizing the power of GPUs for more general processes than just moving pixels, vertices and geometry around.

I don't understand what you mean by "but why does Microsoft insist on not using the standard". What IS the standard according to you? Are you talking about GDC? Because that is not a competing technology to DirectCompute - see below. Or do you mean OpenGL? Or OpenCL?

GDC is aimed at SMPs (symmetric multiprocessing systems, like intels dual core, quad core, i7 etc processors) and so is TPL and CCR.

DirectCompute is aimed att GPUs which have different architecture.

You seem to have confused these technlogies somewhat.

I don't know much about OpenCL, but I think it is an effort of dealing with any type of multi core architecture, be it CPU or GPU based.

nVidias CUDA is their general programming architecture for their GPUs. AMD has a similar for theirs - Stream. Both CUDA and Stream can be used in OpenCL as far as I have seen. So I guess OpenCL abstracts away from the underlying hardware and drivers to get a more general approach.

///JmD

When re-reading my reply I realize I have misspelled GCD on several occasions. In any reference to "GDC" in the above, it should of course be "GCD". I apologize for this.

///JmD

Actually, wake me when the Apple market share percentage swing isn't smaller than the margin of error in the market share survey.

They're not fazed because they're making all their money off the iTunes and App Stores. The iPod and iPhone are the primary focus for Apple now. The computers and OS are playing second fiddle these days.

Their failure as a computer company is what lead them to iPod (They even dropped 'Computer' from their company name). You buy a mac now you've got an overpriced box with an intel processor that runs a unix based OS.

Also, the writer failed to point out that Apple doesn't fear Microsoft any more because they are not really in the same boat when it comes to OSs. They lost out long before Win 2000, and Win 98 SE. They lost out back in 1992 when Windows 3.xx, and then Win 95 i 1995. The 7% increase in quarterly revenue is not because of the Mac, albeit the iPod, and iPhone.

So this isn't anything to do with Apple being unfazed just a bod speculating. If I were Apple I'd be concerned considering the almost universal praise Windows 7 is receiving and the string of bugs being rported in Snow Leopard.

You're forgetting that Windows 7, unlike Mac OS X Snow Leopard, hasn't hit the mass market yet. Once it becomes mainstream more problems are likely to surface.

Figures already show that Mac OS X Snow Leopard is being sold twice as fast as Leopard did in 2007 and four times as fast as Tiger back in 2005. So apparently those "string of bugs" you're talking about aren't making much of an impact...

.Neo said,
You're forgetting that Windows 7, unlike Mac OS X Snow Leopard, hasn't hit the mass market yet. Once it becomes mainstream more problems are likely to surface.

Figures already show that Mac OS X Snow Leopard is being sold twice as fast as Leopard did in 2007 and four times as fast as Tiger back in 2005. So apparently those "string of bugs" you're talking about aren't making much of an impact...

By the download numbers, it's already hit a bigger market overall than Snow Leopard, so ... ?

It might be selling well but if people knew how buggy it was prior to purchase then they may well have held off. I assume you've read about the bugs, video, trackpads, expose....

On the other hand Win 7 beta was available to anyone which meant that it received a massive amount more testing than OSX ever does, betas being available to a fairly small number of people in comparison. Of course there will be bugs but hopefully not obvious ones like Apple have let get through.

.Neo said,
You're forgetting that Windows 7, unlike Mac OS X Snow Leopard, hasn't hit the mass market yet. Once it becomes mainstream more problems are likely to surface.

Figures already show that Mac OS X Snow Leopard is being sold twice as fast as Leopard did in 2007 and four times as fast as Tiger back in 2005. So apparently those "string of bugs" you're talking about aren't making much of an impact...

you are compering apple to apple

They had their window of opportunity with Vista, I feel they missed it. Too bad for Apple.

Apple should fear the release of Windows 7, because it's good, better than Vista and the x64 release WILL WORK with any x64 PC sold now and in the past. The artificial limitation of x64 in Snow Leopard is crazy, marketing exploit to make people buy newer Mac.

"The artificial limitation of x64 in Snow Leopard is crazy, marketing exploit to make people buy newer Mac."

How is it a marketing exploit if the 64-bit kernel isn't even enabled by default on anything but an Xserve? Mac OS X Snow Leopard is capable of running 64-bit applications with all the advantages even without booting into full 64-bit mode. Currently there isn't a real reason why consumers would want to run the 64-bit kernel on Mac OS X.

.Neo said,
"The artificial limitation of x64 in Snow Leopard is crazy, marketing exploit to make people buy newer Mac."

How is it a marketing exploit if the 64-bit kernel isn't even enabled by default on anything but an Xserve? Mac OS X Snow Leopard is capable of running 64-bit applications with all the advantages even without booting into full 64-bit mode. Currently there isn't a real reason why consumers would want to run the 64-bit kernel on Mac OS X.


Without a 64bit kernel, how can the OS access more than 4gb of ram though?

And also if the OS is 32bit, 64bit apps must run in a sort of compatibility layer which causes a small performance overhead. Or so I would assume.

JonathanMarston said,
Just guessing here, but maybe it's using PAE?


Could be. The point is that it's not true 64-bit and therefore is old technology. They should at least do true 64-bit and emulate a 32-bit environment for backward compatibility.

Just because it's old tech doesn't mean to say it needs replacing. If there is a real reason i can understand, however Mac Pro's can address 16GB - 32GB RAM, macbook pro's can address 8GB. If it works without a problem then why change at the moment, this is not to say that apple won't upgrade in the future, however this is a lot smoother transition than Microsoft, i.e. having to reinstall to get x64 from x86.

At some point a transition must be made - they are just waiting out the inevitable.

Curiously - it should be easier for Apple to make the transition than Windows.