AppleCare says the software update won't resolve the signal issue

The iPhone 4 reception issue is quickly blossoming into a hardware issue that is on the same scale as the Xbox 360 red ring of death. After finally publicly admitting that there is a known issue that results in signal degradation, which supposedly can be fixed by a software update, Apple has reversed track and said that it cannot be fixed by the Apple software update.

After contacting AppleCare three separate times, Gizmodo was able to confirm, via Apple Care support, that the update will not fix the issue. Apple said “the incoming software update will not fix this antenna problem, only change the way the phone displays the available signal, make it more accurate”.

Although everyone seemed to already know that this was the issue, this is the first time we have heard Apple directly say that the software update will not fix the root of the problem. In essence, they are admitting that they have a design flaw. 

How Apple will finally amend the issue is still unknown. They could provide all users a free bumper case or allow for extended return time, but you can be sure that Apple is probably working up something that will hopefully appease most users. Let’s not forget either; Apple has a substantial pile of cash in its bank accounts so this issue will not topple the Apple empire but it does represent a rare failure for the corporation.  
 

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I don't understand the reason why a company with sooo much money and prestige couldn't predict this would happen and fix it from the beginning.. Now they'll have to deal with all those frustrated customers; probably some of them would not trust Apple again..

Yea I guess they don't want to hurt the case market by giving away a free one, but I guess that's the solution because a recall would be crazy.

But in any case, I have the phone and I don't have any reception issues. Of course the problem exist, it's definitely there, the iPhone is not a perfect product by any means and never will be. Yeah, signal problems its a critical issue, but then again, the phone is working for me without reception issues witch leads me to believe that the problem it's not really ugly, even for lefties.

My theory is that this opinion matrix it's generated by these facts:

- Apple is known for good products, just a little fail on their side and it explodes public talk. Like in the cars market with the Toyota case. They still make superb cars! (ok this might not be the best example because you can't get killed by using your phone, but the point it's there).

- The Smartphone market has competition like never before. Any fail on any side and the other will start bashing from the front or from the back (viral negative marketing?). Apple does it, Microsoft, does it, Google does it. I'm not putting in any kind of doubt that your opinions are real, but then again it's very easy to pull this out and start the ball rolling. Also this has become some sort of a trolling subject already.

- Lots of people that make a real buzz about this don't even have an iPhone 4. My local perception it's that everyone that haves the phone had no problems with reception issues, droped calls, or whatever. Yeah there's people that own the phone and rant about it, I'm just saying that in my case, my vision is that most of them don't, a huge percentage.

Then again, it's my theory and iIm basing it on my personal experience. I'm not making a pool or a real statistical study on this. Counter theories are accepted.

This goes without sayin for every company..make somethin that works and u wont have the world after u when it goes wrong..sure apple is big and this may not hurt them..but in the short term they will ultimately lose out to us the consumers who want somethin that works!

G-Rod said,
This goes without sayin for every company..make somethin that works and u wont have the world after u when it goes wrong..sure apple is big and this may not hurt them..but in the short term they will ultimately lose out to us the consumers who want somethin that works!

Works just fine, unless your left handed lol

scaramonga said,

Works just fine, unless your left handed lol

I don't get it though when people say that it's for righties when as far as I know and have witnessed, right handed people hold the phone with their left hand for most tasks because you're using the right hand to do most of the actions on the phone. I guess everyone might be meaning that they might hold it in their right hand when talking but I'm right handed and I hold it in my left hand all the time. I don't have a preference when talking to which side I hold it on. When my ear starts to hurt or a little uncomfortable, I'll switch ears/hands.

Not to mention depending how you wrap your fingers around the phone, righties can still bridge that gap anyway when using the right hand.

Smigit said,
Not to mention depending how you wrap your fingers around the phone, righties can still bridge that gap anyway when using the right hand.

Yeah, I find myself gripping with either hand you still cover both sides at the bottom.

Never had a problem with Apple. My 3GS WiFi packed in, took it to the Apple store and they gave me a replacement, 1 month out of warranty it was, awesome service. All it cost me was a trip to Glasgow, which is my nearest Apple store

Okay, is it just me or is it starting to look like Apple is trying to purposely drag things along so everyone who bought the phone on day 1 would be beyond the 30 day return limit? Then they'll try to either tell you sorry, you're too late or try to sell you some extended warranty to cover it.

I don't know but that's what it's starting to look like to me. Apple sure does seem like the kind of company to try to pull that off.

I believe what Apple is trying to achieve is the SW upgrade that they claim to be more "accurate" will make signal loss issue disappear.

I think Apple is just being honest. SW upgrade cannot solve the antenna design issue.

ManOfMystery said,
Dude, this is the Apple DCOD (Dropped Call of Death)

I knew someone was going to add "OF DEATH" to the problem, always happens!

@Brad Sams

The press release from Apple says the same thing. They never admitted a hardware fault, they only said they found a mathematical error that was showing you the wrong number of bars and that they would fix THAT issue.

After the update, when you really have full bars and grip the iphone you might lose a bar, but you won't see it drop off completely(hopefully). When you have 1 or 2 bars and grip the phone you will lose a bar or drop off completely. Falsely reporting the bars as 5 when you have 1 or two, then grip the phone, you will see all 5 bars drop because 0 bars is reported correctly, so you see it go from the falsely reported 5 down to 0.

AppleCare has spelled it out clearly now and you guys are taking it all wrong.

That is my take. If Apple is right about the issue, then there is no "signal issue", as Job's stated in one of his emails, and I hope he is right. If not, Apple can replace my phone with a working one. No big deal.

designgears said,

That is my take. If Apple is right about the issue, then there is no "signal issue", as Job's stated in one of his emails, and I hope he is right. If not, Apple can replace my phone with a working one. No big deal.
If it's dropping bars then there is an issue. The issue isn't specifically that calls are dropped, thats the worst case scenario. The Issue is that whether you lose a call or not there is a significant interference with the signal when you hold the handset, thus why you may drop a bar.


http://gizmodo.com/5577812/why...-fix-your-reception-problem

Heres an article detailing the issue with a pretty decent image that illustrates why there is an issue even if you don't see it or lose reception as a result of it (and keep in mind that since its network dependant while you may not lose reception at home in 3 months time on your holiday the handset could become unreliable somewhere else with poorer coverage)

scaramonga said,
If its proven a hardware fault, no problem, simple replacement from Apple who cares, stop crying you babies lol!

Ditto. Biggest reason I like Apple.

Pretty sure I saw that there was a class-action suit filed or getting the papers together for filing. Anyone have any further word on that?

Of course it won't resolve the issue. They reported a new bug to distract people. So now the public problems to fix are two, the reception itself and the bars on screen.
I wonder who is the genius that made the situation even worse ;-)

It won't come down to a lawsuit. All Apple has to do is provide free bumpers or offer an extended refund policy and the class action will drop off. People forget that there is a choice!

quentez said,
You have no reception, there's an App for that* !

(*Available on the App Store for $4.99)

**Just follow the directions, e.g. hold your phone in a certain way, or not.

Hey apple fan boys, what is hating a phone that doesn't work wrong?
I love how those who own one keep saying, " Only the people who don't own one complain..." Really? Is that why all this has started, because those who don't own it are making the biggest noise? Seems more like people trying to calm their egos by saying "apple still rules" as the boat burns. Claim all you want, but the data is in. This is a hardware failure, that is in EVERY iphone. Play it down all you want, youre the ones stuck with it. If you want to say it's not broken, go ahead, that way you keep a broken phone.

shakey said,
Hey apple fan boys, what is hating a phone that doesn't work wrong?
I love how those who own one keep saying, " Only the people who don't own one complain..." Really? Is that why all this has started, because those who don't own it are making the biggest noise? Seems more like people trying to calm their egos by saying "apple still rules" as the boat burns. Claim all you want, but the data is in. This is a hardware failure, that is in EVERY iphone. Play it down all you want, youre the ones stuck with it. If you want to say it's not broken, go ahead, that way you keep a broken phone.

People can return it if they are not happy with it... I'm not saying it doesn't have any issues. You have an exaggerated view of the problem because you are looking at it with your apple hate goggles on. I'm getting 3.5mbps down and 1.5mbps up the way I hold it, and it is quite comfortable. I haven't had a drop call from this issue. So...i dunno....if you want to live out the fantasy in your head that every time an iPhone user picks it up it doesn't work for them, then go for it dude.

Shadrack said,

People can return it if they are not happy with it... I'm not saying it doesn't have any issues. You have an exaggerated view of the problem because you are looking at it with your apple hate goggles on. I'm getting 3.5mbps down and 1.5mbps up the way I hold it, and it is quite comfortable. I haven't had a drop call from this issue. So...i dunno....if you want to live out the fantasy in your head that every time an iPhone user picks it up it doesn't work for them, then go for it dude.


Me blind to a faulty product, no. You blind to the product you bought, yes. There is a hardware defect in it, PERIOD. If you want to say it's not a issue, may not be now, but what about when you keep pressing on it, slowly making it fit together over time.... the long term effects of this defect have yet to be seen as well, but the short term have already shown themselves. There is no hatred, there is just logic that buying a product with a design fault is just stupid, but not as stupid as denying there is a problem in the first place just to save myself shame that I bought said product......

rare? all apple devices have signal problems stemming from their form-before-function philosophy. i remember mac-book pros having wifi issues because the internal antenna was being shielded by the pretty aluminum casing.

This software update is clearly aimed to mitigate the upcoming legal battles Apple is going to be facing with this issue.

After the software update, when you "grip of death" the iPhone 4 it will only show 1-2 bars of signal strength lost. You may only have 1 OR 2 FRIGGEN BARS after the software update. But there will no longer be a 5-bar to 0-bar drop from the "grip of death". This will mitigate the legal issues because they will be able to show that there are LOTS of phones on the market that lose 1-2 bars of signal when held in certain ways.

If you aren't happy with your iPhone, return it! You should still be within the 30-day return policy with AT&T and Apple. (Yes, I'm a broken record on this)

I honestly haven't had an issue with it. I can cause it but you look like your are friggen mental if you do the "grip of death" on the phone while holding it up to your ear. The internet works fine too, just be mindful of that one spot and you are fine. Don't say that this doesn't apply to other phones. My friend showed me on his DROID that it has similar issues (but not to the same order of magnitude).

This is all just fuel for Apple Haters at this point. Haters gotta hate. Can't say I blame them. Apple has positioned themselves as "the man" in the tech industry as-of-late. Damn the man.

mrmomoman said,
I want the Iphone 4..I want the one with the bigger "gbs"

That was boring the first time it was mentioned. Now it's moving toward the annoying direction.

Metodi Mitov said,

That was boring the first time it was mentioned. Now it's moving toward the annoying direction.

I NEED the iPhone 4, where is the iPhone 4... I want the one with the bigger G.B.'s. What is an HTC Evo? Is it an iPhone? Then why would I want it. I want an iPhone 4.

LiquidSolstice said,

That's not funny anymore, nor is it relevant in any way. Go away.

Oh, come on. It was funny and they're just trying to spark a little bit of laughter in this dull boring article and boring responses. I find it funny. Overdone? maybe but who cares. It's still a little funny.

lordcanti86 said,
/facepalm

Did Apple learn nothing from MS' Xbox 360 RROD fiasco?

At least they are being straight up about the issue. There is acknowledgment that the issue exists. Microsoft, on the other hand, tried to downplay the issue for at least 2 years before finally coming out and saying there was a real problem. 2 years of lying, vs coming out and being straight up about the issue right after launch? Please...

Shadrack said,

At least they are being straight up about the issue. There is acknowledgment that the issue exists. Microsoft, on the other hand, tried to downplay the issue for at least 2 years before finally coming out and saying there was a real problem. 2 years of lying, vs coming out and being straight up about the issue right after launch? Please...


How in the holyhell is Apple being straight up about the issue, or any of the issues with the iPhone 4? Things like don't hold the phone that way aren't exactly being straight up, or is that acceptable to the Apple sheeple? If Apple wants to be straight up, admit the antenna issue is a flat out FUBAR on the hardware/design level, not software and appease the customer somehow (software updates aren't going to cut it).

ir0nw0lf said,

How in the holyhell is Apple being straight up about the issue, or any of the issues with the iPhone 4? Things like don't hold the phone that way aren't exactly being straight up, or is that acceptable to the Apple sheeple? If Apple wants to be straight up, admit the antenna issue is a flat out FUBAR on the hardware/design level, not software and appease the customer somehow (software updates aren't going to cut it).

They acknowledged that if you hold the phone a certain way that the signal drops. Please show me one iPhone 4 where this is not the case. They have been more forthcoming than other companies in similar "hot water". Do realize that anything anyone at Apple says is going to be used against them at court at this point.... usually when this is the case, "mum" is the word. But Apple has at least acknowledged that it is a design issue and that all iPhones are affected.

At least potential customers know of the issue. At least current customers know of the issue and have the option to return the phone if they are unhappy with it.

Come back from holyhell and relax.

Edit: Oh, wait. You are Mr. 100 launch XBox 360's and no RRoD guy. LOL! I forgot that I can't take what you write seriously anymore. I smell an MS rep in our midst...

Apple haven't been particularly forthcoming at all. First they were silent for several days and when they did make a statement the initial one said attenuation happens to all handsets if you hold them near the antenna. Yes, that was true but it didn't address the fact the iPhone was dropping calls.

Then theres the emails from Steve Jobs saying to hold it differently (if I recall correctly this one was not disputed as being fake, just the series of emails from another user where it ended in Steve reportedly saying "it's just a phone"). Then they said they would issue a software fix to fix the way signals are reported while completly ignoring the hardware issue.

Even this article comes from some guy in Apple Care that answered a question over the phone. It's not like Apple has made a press release to mirror this message to the masses nor have they at any time publicly made an announcement about the hardware issues of this phone. They have said theres a software issue, downplayed the hardware issue and the only significant admittance of fault has come from individual support staff or Apple Store employees answering questions or handing out bumpers...but nothing from anyone in any PR or senior positions.

Ohh and they haven't indicated if or how they plan to resolve the hardware issues. The support staff member just said the software issue wouldn't fix it.

Shadrack said,

At least they are being straight up about the issue. There is acknowledgment that the issue exists. Microsoft, on the other hand, tried to downplay the issue for at least 2 years before finally coming out and saying there was a real problem. 2 years of lying, vs coming out and being straight up about the issue right after launch? Please...


I don't know what you are smoking..but it surely is working...

Shadrack said,

I smell an MS rep in our midst...

LOL, conspiracy theorist you are not. I do not work for any major Corporation, thank you very much, troll your anti-MS stuff somewhere else lol.

Ermmm, is it just me noticing this, it took Gizmodo THREE phone calls to get this answer, whats to say it's just a misinformed Customer Service Agent? Pretty much every company has some!

Lost Pocket said,
Ermmm, is it just me noticing this, it took Gizmodo THREE phone calls to get this answer, whats to say it's just a misinformed Customer Service Agent? Pretty much every company has some!

... reading comprehension fail? Gizmodo called three separate times and got the same answer from Apple Care on all three calls... it doesn't say they had to call three times to get that answer.

Lost Pocket said,
Ermmm, is it just me noticing this, it took Gizmodo THREE phone calls to get this answer, whats to say it's just a misinformed Customer Service Agent? Pretty much every company has some!
That's really what I was thinking when I read the article. They were actively looking for a customer service representative to slip up and they got one on the third try.

The CS representative almost certainly just added their own opinion on the matter to clearly answer the question: software will not fix any hardware issues, should any exist. Gizmodo is still upset about how Apple treated them with their iPhone 4 leak. Apple definitely went overboard, but trying to get a mistake out of a CS rep does not really make Gizmodo look like a better reporting service (and I generally like their site, too), and really serves to further Apple's insults about them.

pickypg said,
That's really what I was thinking when I read the article. They were actively looking for a customer service representative to slip up and they got one on the third try.

The CS representative almost certainly just added their own opinion on the matter to clearly answer the question: software will not fix any hardware issues, should any exist. Gizmodo is still upset about how Apple treated them with their iPhone 4 leak. Apple definitely went overboard, but trying to get a mistake out of a CS rep does not really make Gizmodo look like a better reporting service (and I generally like their site, too), and really serves to further Apple's insults about them.

I think the funniest part of this whole thing is seeing Apple fanboys like you desperately try and defend them in the face of the obvious.

Ji@nBing said,
I think the funniest part of this whole thing is seeing Apple fanboys like you desperately try and defend them in the face of the obvious.
The funny thing is that I was not defending them, but I was just pointing out that a customer service representative on the third try does not mean it's the company line. It took multiple attempts to get a representative to say what they wanted to hear.

That does not mean that there is no problem because you can easily find YouTube videos showing the problem, but it does not change the fact that Gizmodo was fishing for a quote. Just because I happen to be against Gizmodo over the quote does not mean that I am for Apple on the issue.

vaximily said,

... reading comprehension fail? Gizmodo called three separate times and got the same answer from Apple Care on all three calls... it doesn't say they had to call three times to get that answer.

No, not really. Where in that article does it say Gizmodo got the same answer on all three occasions, because I certainly can't see it.

Lost Pocket said,

No, not really. Where in that article does it say Gizmodo got the same answer on all three occasions, because I certainly can't see it.

3rd Paragraph, last sentence:
"Their response was immediate and unequivocal, the same in the three cases:"

Still trying to ignore facts to help your Apple ego?

vacs said,

3rd Paragraph, last sentence:
"Their response was immediate and unequivocal, the same in the three cases:"

Still trying to ignore facts to help your Apple ego?

Errrrmmm no, 3rd paragraph, last sentance reads "In essence, they are admitting that they have a design flaw. "

Lost Pocket said,

Errrrmmm no, 3rd paragraph, last sentance reads "In essence, they are admitting that they have a design flaw. "

How about reading the original news article on Gizmodo? Maybe that will help for your (again 3rd paragraph --> original article

"...but it does represent a rare failure for the corporation."

I think there have been enough failures but the damn Apple sheep keep drinking the koolaide...

speedstr3789 said,
"...but it does represent a rare failure for the corporation."

I think there have been enough failures but the damn Apple sheep keep drinking the koolaide...

This. Just because a product sells well doesn't mean it wasn't a technical failure (I'm looking at you iPad). TV Infomercial products are a perfect example.

Northgrove said,
Is anyone surprised? The software update is a graphical/UI update.

What on Earth was everyone expecting.

But, apple was "Claiming" it was the fix.

TechDudeGeorge said,

But, apple was "Claiming" it was the fix.

Exactly. How ANY software update could fix a hardware issue like this is beyond me though...

Northgrove said,
Is anyone surprised? The software update is a graphical/UI update.

What on Earth was everyone expecting.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

it will show people that "oh damn i am in a really bad area where my phone could easily lose reception" rather than "wow i am in a 5 bar area best reception ever"...

look at the numbers, with the 5th bar covering most of the possible signal you can have and the drop in signal when you hold it which you will notice looking at the numbers isn't a whole lot bigger than many other phones actually, could easily cover as much signal there is in bars 1,2,3 and 4 but not half of whats in bar 5...

yea i am a fact fanboy, apple fanboy? nope, sorry actually hate most of their products

@leonick,

Yes, Apple's software has been lying about bar strength since the very first one. I'm glad they've been forced to admit to this deception and will be fixing the software issue.

However, it has nothing to do with the fact that one can still short/attenuate the reception of the antennae by holding it the way 99% of people in the world hold a phone. That's a hardware/design flaw that needs to be rectified by Apple.

mrmomoman said,
Knowing Apple I wouldn't put it past them to update the hardware and not tell anyone.

Remotely on phones that are already out? I'd like to see that happen. SWAT teams breaking into people's houses to fix their iPhones?

mrmomoman said,
Knowing Apple I wouldn't put it past them to update the hardware and not tell anyone.

Won't exactly help the 2+ million that already have one...

Metodi Mitov said,
SWAT teams breaking into people's houses to fix their iPhones?
It wouldn't be the first time Apple had a SWAT going into someone's house due to an iPhone 4.

watch if this comes out on verizon they will have an "updated" version that doesnt have this problem just for them or something like that *LOL*

neufuse said,
watch if this comes out on verizon they will have an "updated" version that doesnt have this problem just for them or something like that *LOL*

Not sure how this would affect the CDMA push. On one hand, verizon has way more and better coverage so it might not cause dropped calls. On the other, it is still a flaw and perhaps the fiasco would drive verizon away from it. I seriously don't think they are going to go with a complete redesign on the radios because it would cause them to have to make the phone thicker to accommodate, delay manufacturing, and seriously fragment the supply.

neufuse said,
watch if this comes out on verizon they will have an "updated" version that doesnt have this problem just for them or something like that *LOL*

LOL, well in all seriousness, I would hope a hardware revision would resolve this problem... Apple needs to do something here...

neufuse said,
watch if this comes out on verizon they will have an "updated" version that doesnt have this problem just for them or something like that *LOL*

wouldnt be needed, just being on verizons network instead of AT&T would negate the problem...

Apple has a new job posting to go along with their wireless antenna positions.

Apple is looking for a PR expert that can state the obvious. As we have not been able to do so we are now searching for a PR expert who can spin the obvious without being obvious. Obviously you have to have experience in this type of spin. We at Apple take great pride in our ability to spin the automatons into buying our products for years and have been very successful in our campaign. Recent efforts to quiet the tide of consumer concerns has resulted in a new position being created.

Please send your resume to craptastic@apple.com. Please cc: stevejobs@apple.com


NightSt@lk3r said,
I think this is on a far worse scale then the RROD on the 360.

This is worse than RROD, Microsoft admitted there was a problem and gave out extended warranties and fixed thousands of xbox 360s. Apple has yet to do anything to address the problem, there stubborn attitude of "nope, nope, nothing to do with us" isn't gonna get them anywhere except court.

thealexweb said,

This is worse than RROD, Microsoft admitted there was a problem and gave out extended warranties and fixed thousands of xbox 360s. Apple has yet to do anything to address the problem, there stubborn attitude of "nope, nope, nothing to do with us" isn't gonna get them anywhere except court.


I have my Xbox 360 2 years. And it had RROD only once, since it got fixed its been running smooth as ever... So i think apple is playing with anger here

NightSt@lk3r said,
I think this is on a far worse scale then the RROD on the 360.

How do you figure? I cover the black notch on my iPhone and it sometimes still works. I've had 2 Xbox 360's with RRoD's... both are bricked.

They are just different issues. They are both design flaws though, but in one case the device doesn't work anymore, and in the other case the performance of the device is affected when held a certain way.

Shadrack said,

How do you figure? I cover the black notch on my iPhone and it sometimes still works. I've had 2 Xbox 360's with RRoD's... both are bricked.

They are just different issues. They are both design flaws though, but in one case the device doesn't work anymore, and in the other case the performance of the device is affected when held a certain way.

Because every single iPhone 4 that comes off the production line has this issue from the second it is unboxed, the RROD on the other hand doesn't affect every single 360 and the ones it does usually doesn't appear for well over a year after purchase, and if it does Microsoft will fix it for free.

NightSt@lk3r said,

Because every single iPhone 4 that comes off the production line has this issue from the second it is unboxed, the RROD on the other hand doesn't affect every single 360 and the ones it does usually doesn't appear for well over a year after purchase, and if it does Microsoft will fix it for free.

Everyone I know who has an XBox 360 is currently on their 2nd one because of RRoD. From my head count that is 100%. But as far as official reports go it is around 30-60% (I think), so I digress on that (I personally think they are counting newer unaffected models but whatever).

I will give you that last point though. Microsoft is fixing the issue for free. Apple is going to fight fixing this issue until the bitter end, I'm guessing.

Shadrack said,

Everyone I know who has an XBox 360 is currently on their 2nd one because of RRoD. From my head count that is 100%. But as far as official reports go it is around 30-60% (I think), so I digress on that (I personally think they are counting newer unaffected models but whatever).


And I can easily counter this with reports of all the people I know with launch Xbox360's that are still working fine, over 100 at last count. This iPhone issue is more far reaching easily than the Xbox360 issue.

NightSt@lk3r said,
I think this is on a far worse scale then the RROD on the 360.
I'd have to disagree. It took Microsoft a little over a year and a half before correcting the problem by giving away the extended warranty and eating the cost. With that said, I have gone through one 360, and my brothers have gone through many more (one has gone through at least four). When they went to the updated model, they definitely did fix the issue. Remember, Microsoft originally claimed that they were within the normal failure rates before finally coming clean.

Apple has not gone that far, yet. Still, and unfortunately, Apple has demonstrated that their bottom line is once again greater than their customer's satisfaction (e.g., the Apple of the 90's). It's one thing to charge a premium and pile up the profits if you are willing to use it toward unfortunate situations like their current predicament. In reality, it does appear that the antenna issue is limited to a large, but still bad batch of fourth generation iPhones.

Once the software update is released and these people continue to see and demonstrate dropped calls and dropped bandwidth with the simple placement of their hand's (I put my hand there when I hold my iPhone 3GS vertically), then Apple had better pony up a fix, or a replacement phone. Otherwise, they are about to topple themselves from the privileged reigns of quality customer service.

That's the most concerning part about this whole ordeal. Apple has been very good to their paying customers in the past with regards to warranty. The 27" iMac problems? They gave some people full refunds plus a stipend for their troubles. Not to mention replacing it altogether a couple of times trying to fix it. If you have a repeated issue with a MacBook (as in, the same issue happens after it is fixed more than once)? They will replace the whole machine with a brand new one. Want someone to speak English? They're available, and--if you live in any major city--they're local.

Apple: [as if you're reading this,] I implore you, as a customer who always questions the purchase of your products, but who has done so because of your customer service track record: "fix" the software issue ("misreported" signal issue) and show us how bad AT&T's network is, and then replace every iPhone 4 that still can reproduce the lost signal (not dropping signal) issue shown in every video online. If you do that, at your own cost (just like the Xbox 360), even after the 30 days, then you will regain your old record and give consumers confidence in your products, again. Without the customer service, I will not buy your products, and I doubt I am alone.

ir0nw0lf said,

And I can easily counter this with reports of all the people I know with launch Xbox360's that are still working fine, over 100 at last count. This iPhone issue is more far reaching easily than the Xbox360 issue.

I smell a bunch of BS. Over a 100? LOL. Yeah right. At least shoot for a number that MIGHT be believable. You got a good laugh out of me though! Cheers for that!

Sebianoti said,

I have my Xbox 360 2 years. And it had RROD only once, since it got fixed its been running smooth as ever... So i think apple is playing with anger here

Have had my Elite for 3 years and it hasn't even flinched.

Shadrack said,

Everyone I know who has an XBox 360 is currently on their 2nd one because of RRoD. From my head count that is 100%. But as far as official reports go it is around 30-60% (I think), so I digress on that (I personally think they are counting newer unaffected models but whatever).

I will give you that last point though. Microsoft is fixing the issue for free. Apple is going to fight fixing this issue until the bitter end, I'm guessing.


Issue is not how bad the problem is. Issue is how do companies treat these problems. Do they admit the problem? Do they take care of the customers effected by the issue? Or Do they just find the fault with the customer? That's the issue!

pickypg said,
I'd have to disagree. It took Microsoft a little over a year and a half before correcting the problem by giving away the extended warranty and eating the cost. With that said, I have gone through one 360, and my brothers have gone through many more (one has gone through at least four). When they went to the updated model, they definitely did fix the issue. Remember, Microsoft originally claimed that they were within the normal failure rates before finally coming clean.

Yes, but Microsoft still fixed those consoles. When it was determined it was more wide spread they extended the warranties... Apple is burrying their head in the sand.

Though the two issues are very different and can't really be compared IMO, the customer service certainly can. Microsoft stood behind their products and fixed them. Apple is pushing out an update that essentially does nothing to make things "appear" like they're doing something and suggesting that customers also purchase a case for your phone. From a customer service standpoint, this is a bigger fail for Apple IMO than the initial hardware issue. Mistakes happen sometimes, but you then have to fix them...

M_Lyons10 said,
Yes, but Microsoft still fixed those consoles. When it was determined it was more wide spread they extended the warranties... Apple is burrying their head in the sand.
I do not want to give the impression that I am defending Apple. Apple is doing the absolute wrong thing here, but I did still want to make it clear that Microsoft was in the exact same denial phase for a long period of time. It does not justify either company's behavior, but Microsoft is not free of guilt when discussing the 360 warranty.

M_Lyons10 said,
From a customer service standpoint, this is a bigger fail for Apple IMO than the initial hardware issue. Mistakes happen sometimes, but you then have to fix them...
I couldn't agree more. Apple needs to make things right, and that won't happen until they replace all of the bad handsets (the rumor is that it's not as bad as the early batch for most people; I do not own a phone and have never touched one to say differently). They've already lost major points for the denial, but they deserve to lose big if they continue to completely ignore the screwed up phones.

To everyone that says they cannot replace them:

1. Too bad.
2. I've mentioned it before, but Apple has well over $40 billion sitting in the bank. They can afford to replace many millions of iPhones (if all are affected) without taking a measurable hit to their bottom line. Not to mention, the PR coming from that would be unmeasurable and last for years.

Here you go the iphone 5

2x white/black Cups
1 x length of string

£450 to you

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Stup0t said,
Here you go the iphone 5

2x white/black Cups
1 x length of string

£450 to you

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Hahahahaha, and an apple too!

Stup0t said,
Here you go the iphone 5

2x white/black Cups
1 x length of string

£450 to you

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

LMAO

techbeck said,
You get what you pay for......

Yea. Maybe if they added another 50$ it would come with an fully working antenna.....

M_Lyons10 said,

Well, they paid for a phone and got a brick... LOL


which works amazingly if you are actually in a area with signal... seriously it is more AT&T than Apple... guess who most people reporting the problem are in the US and not in another country where we have much better networks...

Leonick said,

which works amazingly if you are actually in a area with signal... seriously it is more AT&T than Apple... guess who most people reporting the problem are in the US and not in another country where we have much better networks...

Sorry got to disagree with this, a mate of mine who is on Vodafone (who have a great reception in the UK) was on to the call centre and after being put on hold/going through various options he changed hands and bam the call cut off. He was not hp that he had to go through all the faffing around again only to be told nothing can be done...!

jakethesnakeuk said,
because it is a hardware problem! software update won't resolve it!

LOL, exactly. I think they made claims of this software update resolving it in an attempt to save sales...

jakethesnakeuk said,
because it is a hardware problem! software update won't resolve it!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

No but it will show people that "oh damn i am in a really bad area where my phone could easily lose reception" rather than "wow i am in a 5 bar area best reception ever"...

look at the numbers, with the 5th bar covering most of the possible signal you can have and the drop in signal when you hold it which you will notice looking at the numbers isn't a whole lot bigger than many other phones actually, could easily cover as much signal there is in bars 1,2,3 and 4 but not half of whats in bar 5...

yea i am a fact fanboy, apple fanboy? nope, sorry actually hate most of their products

Well that's just great now isn't it, there not gonna recall all phones at this point because its just obvious that Apple is too cocky and got their ego in there heads. Apple Inc. say hello to a mob of fanboys, there your new best enemies.

Xypro said,
Well that's just great now isn't it, there not gonna recall all phones at this point because its just obvious that Apple is too cocky and got their ego in there heads. Apple Inc. say hello to a mob of fanboys, there your new best enemies.

lol, you make it sound like a huge majority is affected by this... It's a vocal minority, as usual.

Northgrove said,

lol, you make it sound like a huge majority is affected by this... It's a vocal minority, as usual.

Exactly. I've been using mine since day -1 (a day before release) and no problems with reception or dropped calls. It seems people just want to bash the phone because they found a flaw. I remember by old Sony Ericsson had the antenna on the bottom. It sucked. Didn't see anyone complaining lol.

Northgrove said,

lol, you make it sound like a huge majority is affected by this... It's a vocal minority, as usual.

Well everyone who owns an iphone 4 will have this issue and by the growing numbers of sales is going to be a big upset to alot of people and yes its one flaw but a major one. The main use of the device is now really bad, but the iphone 4 is an amazing device, but HTC will find a way to top it anyday now.

Northgrove said,

lol, you make it sound like a huge majority is affected by this... It's a vocal minority, as usual.

Really?

If you own an iPhone 4 and grab it improperly YOU ARE AFFECTED by the design flaw.

Some people defending this crap sound like they have Stockholm Syndrome.

If the next iPhone requires you to stand on your head to use it properly, will you also just accept this as ok, and the people complaining then will still be a vocal minority?

Xypro said,

Well everyone who owns an iphone 4 will have this issue and by the growing numbers of sales is going to be a big upset to alot of people and yes its one flaw but a major one. The main use of the device is now really bad, but the iphone 4 is an amazing device, but HTC will find a way to top it anyday now.

HTC + WP7 for the win! LOL

Northgrove said,

lol, you make it sound like a huge majority is affected by this... It's a vocal minority, as usual.
I'm pretty sure it is everyone that is effected actually, just not everyone will drop calls or even notice the bar drop on the display. Gizmodo had a decent illustration of this (http://gizmodo.com/5577812/why...-fix-your-reception-problem). Every user is getting signal loss when they hold the phone there, just depending on your reception quality you may not have any actual problems.


edit: And the problem here is you may test it at home and be ok but in two months you could be somewhere where you will drop calls as a result and by that time it's too late to return it.

Edited by Smigit, Jul 7 2010, 2:24am :

0sm3l said,

Exactly. I've been using mine since day -1 (a day before release) and no problems with reception or dropped calls. It seems people just want to bash the phone because they found a flaw. I remember by old Sony Ericsson had the antenna on the bottom. It sucked. Didn't see anyone complaining lol.


yea the drop in reception is actually quite normal, it's just that the signal bars are made in such a weird way the loss in reception you get when holding it is more than bars 1,2,3 and 4 but not even half of bar 5... so if your in a really crappy are which still might be enough to show up as 5 holding it could be enough to kill it but in an area which actual coverage no problem at all