Apple's Phil Schiller talks new dock connector and why iPhone 5 lacks NFC and wireless charging

Senior vice president of worldwide marketing at Apple, Phil Schiller, has explained why the latest iPhone does not have NFC or wireless charging, and why they chose to change the dock connector.

In an interview with AllThingsD, Schiller said that it is yet unclear if NFC is the solution to any current problem and that Apple's new application for iOS 6 called Passbook "does the kinds of things customers need today." This is very typical of Apple, they almost never bet on a technology unless they are sure it will become a standard; likely the same reason they will never include a Blu-ray drive in Mac computers.

On wireless charging, Schiller says that it still requires the charging unit to be plugged into a wall, saying that it's not clear how much convenience it actually adds. "Having to create another device you have to plug into a wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated." he said. This comes after Nokia introduced two new Windows Phone 8 Lumia devices that allow for wireless charging via a charging pad.

As for the new Lightning dock connector, Schiller said it wasn't possible to build products as thin without changing the cord. "This is the new connector for many years to come," he said.  Apple's previous connector has been in use since 2003, which is currently used for thousands of 3rd-party products such as speakers and docks. While the new iPhone won't fit into these products, Apple will be selling an adapter for backwards compatibility.

Source: AllThingsD

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Here is a good article that explains the difference between USB and the apple dock connector. This is perhaps one reason why there are so many iphone/ipod/ipad accessories compared to other vendors. If a micro-usb offered the same kind of device control don't you think companies would offer it so all these Android phones could work from the same accessory?

http://www.cultofmac.com/17809...les-dock-connector-feature/

about the cars with iphone docks, who was the genius that thought that the socket will remain the same for 10-20 years? Supporting non standard tech will create this issues so next time dont buy a car because it has support for iphone .

well the new connector was needed to advance the technology. why stick with that awful behemoth of a 30pin connector?

Brian Miller said,
Why not include a nice Dock that plugs in to the the lightning cable, which can aslo chard the iPhone.

People will buy one, so it's a business decision to sell it rather than include it.

On wireless charging, Schiller says that it still requires the charging unit to be plugged into a wall, saying that it's not clear how much convenience it actually adds. "Having to create another device you have to plug into a wall is actually, for most situations, more complicated." he said.

I plan on getting a Nokia Lumia 920, but I do agree on that part. Not the mention the fact the wireless charging unit will be sold separate (lame).

This is very typical of Apple, they almost never bet on a technology unless they are sure it will become a standard; likely the same reason they will never include a Blu-ray drive in Mac computers.

Conversely, if Apple does not get behind some technologies like NFC they will never become standard. Apple could propel NFC into being the standard or ignore it until it fades into oblivion.

Honestly, as far as payment type applications go I don't understand why NFC is the technology for this. Some other kind of Internet wallet based system (Google Wallet?) could work without radiating more signals out of a device. The store you are at is connected to the Internet. The phone in your pocket is connected to the Internet. Why do we need another connection? For security? NFC has already been shown it is hackable. People spend money online all the time, so that isn't anything new.

As for wireless charging: the only advantage I see with wireless charging is that you wouldn't be constantly plugging in and unplugging the device. This would be a plus at keeping the connectors in good condition. His argument that carrying around a "power mat" would be dumb is a silly argument because the power mat accessory would meant to be stationary (at your home or at your office). If anyone was going to travel they would probably just take their USB adapter or w/e.

It would really depend how much the "powermat" cost. If it was much over $30 I probably wouldn't buy it even if my phone did support wireless charging. What phones even do support wireless charging? Is there a standard for it? I don't think I've ever heard about this feature being built into a phone before.

Regarding internet based payments: I love them. Square does it the way you've described (proximity activated but over the internet) and it's great. Don't even need to take the phone out of my pocket.

With regards to NFC. It would be nice to see someone take the lead and push it big time.

I love the arguments put forward about "it isn't ready so we'll not use it/not include it". Sounds like the excuse for not having LTE last year like other devices

But really the way it should be is develop and include the technology and THEN the use cases will appear. The frustration filled way is to wait for the use case to appear and then flounder around because your devices are on the "old way".

You can't be late to a party you plan yourself.

technikal said,
With regards to NFC. It would be nice to see someone take the lead and push it big time.

I love the arguments put forward about "it isn't ready so we'll not use it/not include it". Sounds like the excuse for not having LTE last year like other devices

But really the way it should be is develop and include the technology and THEN the use cases will appear. The frustration filled way is to wait for the use case to appear and then flounder around because your devices are on the "old way".

You can't be late to a party you plan yourself.

I don't see Apple or anyone else in the smart phone business doing it alone. I would expect a partnership with a powerful retailer. In the USA, if WalMart and a smart phone maker were to make a partnership over having NFC in all their phones and WalMart having NFC capable registers at all their store, then I think we would see real gain made.

I don't think they are lying when they say that a new connector was needed for making the devise thinner. Samsung made its devices thinner by spreading the components horizontally, and thus making the devices bigger. They turned this into marketing, saying they made a larger screen for every one. But is everyone asking for a larger screen? For most, their thumbs can't cover the width of the screen or the height. If you like it, good for you. But I bet most don't need it. -- Remember, negative opinions tend to get aired more often than positive ones. That there are those who complained about the small sizes of iPhones does not mean there aren't as many or in fact many many more of those who love the 3.5~4 in sizes

wireless is convenient to a point, but in these QA sessions, they probably can't answer all the reasons against it. like you can't charge while using it holding it in your hand. and increasing the size of the overall charging equipment when you travel. And the space it requires. maybe you have a 10 ft by 10ft desk, but I am sure there are quite a few of those who just removable-taped the cord on the desk because there's no space for something even just a size of a CD on the desk.

If you are hoping that Apple would do something to bring NFC to everywhere, and you are disappointed by their not doing so, then maybe you've got a point. But merchants everywhere are merchants, $ comes first. How does NFC do anything for them? (I will get back to you who are screaming 'how do credit card readers do anything for them, huh?' in a moment) Preciously little NFC can increase their sales, and just try getting your landlords to install a new fridge for you is hard enough, thinking going door to door or making a very attractive commercial to convince business owner with similar stinginess without making a case for very apparent/immediate business boost won't get anything installed. And who says Europe uses credit card? And we're doing just fine paying with credit card, it's the line that's the problem. The line is there to make sure you did pay. NFC doesn't help much there.

Are you really reall y really going to bump your phone with someone else's that often? Ask S3 owners how many times they've done it.

Gaming, photography, video recording, finding places you want to go, communicating, sharing these things need to be handled very very nicely first, then you can talk about new stuff. who knows

My bet is that NFC won't be included until next year with the 5S is out. Once NFC is widely available at outlets, Apple will adopt the standard (there are a lot of companies/banks moving this way over the 2013/14 period). Apple's focus for this iPhone was to make it slimmer and that's why they didn't deem this feature as important enough to include just yet...

imachip said,
My bet is that NFC won't be included until next year with the 5S is out. Once NFC is widely available at outlets, Apple will adopt the standard (there are a lot of companies/banks moving this way over the 2013/14 period). Apple's focus for this iPhone was to make it slimmer and that's why they didn't deem this feature as important enough to include just yet...

Are you confusing NFC (the P2P standard) and RFID? RFID, used in various bank cards/credit cards, is static and unchanging. It has the same data on the RFID as is on the magnetized portion of the card. NFC (the P2P standard) isn't for static data. When most people talk "NFC" in new phones they mean the P2P part, where devices can communicate with either. RFID is not P2P.

Rosyna said,

Are you confusing NFC (the P2P standard) and RFID? RFID, used in various bank cards/credit cards, is static and unchanging. It has the same data on the RFID as is on the magnetized portion of the card. NFC (the P2P standard) isn't for static data. When most people talk "NFC" in new phones they mean the P2P part, where devices can communicate with either. RFID is not P2P.

I think you're the one getting confused, RFID has never been used in phones and I doubt it ever will, it's main use is in inventory tags, credit and debit cards and the data is fixed. NFC is far more flexible and allows not just P2P communication but also payments using a digital wallet. Ever hear of an app called Google Wallet?

That uses NFC for payments using credit and debit cards that are stored within the wallet application, or even payments to other people using paypal as well as the ability to program your own tags to do specific things, such as, switch on Wireless when you get home from work or switch on Bluetooth and open your GPS app when you get into your car.

Just another instance of Apple and their fans changing their story to fit Apple's official line. One minute Apple is saying that they have the "most advanced" phone. The fanboys will cheer about how advanced the tech is - such as the "retina" screen, no other company has a screen as advanced as Apple's. But when they are behind such as with NFC, then it is unproven tech, nobody uses it, etc. But when Apple announces support for it, then it is ready for prime time. On Sept 11, LTE was crap, not widely available, not used by anyone. Sept 12, LTE is great, available to everyone, and will be a great addition to the iPhone.

Yes, at home wireless charging doesn't present much of a benefit. While traveling,or on the go, its a huge benefit. Imagine how useful charging stations would be in an airport or starbucks. It would be nice not to have to tote around my cord.

gohatters said,
Yes, at home wireless charging doesn't present much of a benefit. While traveling,or on the go, its a huge benefit. Imagine how useful charging stations would be in an airport or starbucks. It would be nice not to have to tote around my cord.

These powermats are too expensive to be everywhere. Who are you willing to share your powermat with while you are at starbucks or *gasp* the airport?

Sure, it would be great if I could just set my phone down on any armrest at an air port and it would just wireless charge but I don't see that happening anytime soon even if the iPhone did support wireless charging.

Shadrack said,

These powermats are too expensive to be everywhere. Who are you willing to share your powermat with while you are at starbucks or *gasp* the airport?

Sure, it would be great if I could just set my phone down on any armrest at an air port and it would just wireless charge but I don't see that happening anytime soon even if the iPhone did support wireless charging.

Nokia partnered w/ Leaf & Bean and Virgin Air (i think) to buyild out locations in Europe. It could happen here too.

all the ibabies who cry about apple would cry about wireless charging too... if the included it they would be saying "$50 for another accessory?, greedy apple *******!"

And its not as if THEY make much money from the accessories anyways, most people buy 3rd party accessory clones.

So am i the only one who believed him and think it all makes sense?

I've seen a few people complaining about NFC and i honestly don't think it's worth building this technology because it's not being used, all these other manufactures are bundling it in so they look awesome but the reality it, no one is using it... i've tried to use NFC at McDonalds with a Barclays credit card and every single time it says 'please enter the card' ... so from my experience: the technology isn't ready yet..

Apple will add it next year or so, when it's more widespread, and one thing is for sure: it will work.. but of course the anti-apple folk will be crying 'we've had it for years' .. when in reality you have had something you probably haven't used.

The same goes for wireless charging, i seen a couple of articles about it for the Lumia, it was news to me i honestly didn't think anything like this would be around yet so i shot off to Neowin to find a post, only to see the image of the Lumia attached to a pod like device that plugs in to something, so in reality, it's not wireless, not even close.. there is a wire involved in the charging and as far as i know the lumia needs to be on the pod to charge? contact to the pod, with wire, not wireless.. it's effectively just a bigger dock connector, come back when you can charge your device when it x amount of metres away from it's 'pod'.

Uplift said,
....
Most wireless charger are just a mat. You place your phone on it and, guess what? It charges without any wires. If you're really using the Lumia as the only example of inductive charging for phones I feel really bad for you not looking into it further. Aftermarket ones have existed for years and plenty of people have them.

I'm sorry you can't seem to figure out how to use NFC to pay when many others have absolutely no issue doing so. Furthermore, NFC can be used to do more things that just pay for stuff. You can look at the GSIII for examples of alternate uses.

You pro-Apple folk can make all the excuses you want and continue trying to convince yourselves of a false reality. The truth hurts, we understand.

Uplift said,
So am i the only one who believed him and think it all makes sense?

I see. NFC was developed back in 2004 and Apple still doesn't see a standard. NFC works wonders for me. As for wireless charging..... Would it be nice to have an audio system that has a dock for any phone and uses NFC and has wireless charging? That is one less thing that can physically wear out (No more broken connectors) and plus you can put any NFC phone in the dock because there is no need for a proprietary connector.

KCRic said,
<snip>

The reality is: how often is it being used by consumers though? I mean, us nerds can sit on Neowin all day and talk about how we use it, but sadly, we're not the general consumers. My ex for example was excited about the NFC feature in the GS III. She's had the phone since release day though, and well... doesn't make use of it.

I like to consider myself a tech enthusiast, so I'm not against the flow of technology advancing. However, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's widely being used by the general consumers...

jesseinsf said,
I see. NFC was developed back in 2004 and Apple still doesn't see a standard. NFC works wonders for me. As for wireless charging..... Would it be nice to have an audio system that has a dock for any phone and uses NFC and has wireless charging? That is one less thing that can physically wear out (No more broken connectors) and plus you can put any NFC phone in the dock because there is no need for a proprietary connector.

Or... and maybe I should patent this.... have a wireless charging and nfc pad in the armrest or glove compartment of your car. Put your phone in it and it charges and connects to the car stereo automatically. Winner.

Uplift said,
So am i the only one who believed him and think it all makes sense?

I've seen a few people complaining about NFC and i honestly don't think it's worth building this technology because it's not being used, all these other manufactures are bundling it in so they look awesome but the reality it, no one is using it... i've tried to use NFC at McDonalds with a Barclays credit card and every single time it says 'please enter the card' ... so from my experience: the technology isn't ready yet..

Apple will add it next year or so, when it's more widespread, and one thing is for sure: it will work.. but of course the anti-apple folk will be crying 'we've had it for years' .. when in reality you have had something you probably haven't used.

The same goes for wireless charging, i seen a couple of articles about it for the Lumia, it was news to me i honestly didn't think anything like this would be around yet so i shot off to Neowin to find a post, only to see the image of the Lumia attached to a pod like device that plugs in to something, so in reality, it's not wireless, not even close.. there is a wire involved in the charging and as far as i know the lumia needs to be on the pod to charge? contact to the pod, with wire, not wireless.. it's effectively just a bigger dock connector, come back when you can charge your device when it x amount of metres away from it's 'pod'.

You are not the only one! Apple has one of the most profitable business today. This is not Nokia or RIM where they need to include every piece of untested and untried technology! What he said makes perfect sense and is a good business decision. I have a Samsung Focus before anyone calls me a fanboy! I'm just using common sense just like Apple!

Uplift said,
So am i the only one who believed him and think it all makes sense?

I've seen a few people complaining about NFC and i honestly don't think it's worth building this technology because it's not being used, all these other manufactures are bundling it in so they look awesome but the reality it, no one is using it... i've tried to use NFC at McDonalds with a Barclays credit card and every single time it says 'please enter the card' ... so from my experience: the technology isn't ready yet..

Apple will add it next year or so, when it's more widespread, and one thing is for sure: it will work.. but of course the anti-apple folk will be crying 'we've had it for years' .. when in reality you have had something you probably haven't used.

The same goes for wireless charging, i seen a couple of articles about it for the Lumia, it was news to me i honestly didn't think anything like this would be around yet so i shot off to Neowin to find a post, only to see the image of the Lumia attached to a pod like device that plugs in to something, so in reality, it's not wireless, not even close.. there is a wire involved in the charging and as far as i know the lumia needs to be on the pod to charge? contact to the pod, with wire, not wireless.. it's effectively just a bigger dock connector, come back when you can charge your device when it x amount of metres away from it's 'pod'.


Exactly!

I am thinking. Why should Apple support NFC? Why should Apple support it, push it? So that Android-based phones can actually use the NFC that came with their phones?

Android-based phones are the most sold phones in the world, the most phones that come with NFC, with heavy-weights like Samsung/Google/HTC/LG behind them. What did that make to the NFC adoption rate? *It did not do squat!* Are more people using it? No. Do more stores offer it? No. Do most commoners know what NFC is? No. But can geeks show off that their phone has NFC? Yes. And apart from that is there anything else? No.

And let us say that Apple does come to support NFC, and NFC really does take off afterwards. Will Android-based-phone users admit that Apple succeeded where other Android-based-phone manufacturers failed? Or will they say that their devices had it for a long time, that Apple came late in the game, that it is nothing new, and that Apple just want to take all the glory because other phones had it before, even if they were practically useless?

Before thinking about NFC, perhaps the USA should start implementing smart card. While the rest of the world had smart cards for years, the USA just started using them.

As for wireless charging, the dock uses more power than it transfers when charging, and you will still need your cable in most cases.

I've never really understood wireless charging for phones. Why is it so much better than just plugging in the phone?

I could see how inductive charging could be really handy for waterproof devices, but most smartphones don't fall under that category.

NFC is more useful, but the technology still has a few kinks.

Elliott said,
I've never really understood wireless charging for phones. Why is it so much better than just plugging in the phone?

I could see how inductive charging could be really handy for waterproof devices, but most smartphones don't fall under that category.

NFC is more useful, but the technology still has a few kinks.

A situation I could envisage would be where the user has a desk job with a computer. They can just place their device down and it'll charge. When they need to answer a call or leave they just pick up and go. Basically it literally saves you the action of plugging and unplugging.

Purely for laziness.

If it was on my phone I'd probably use it because I'm lazy like that and dislike the cables for all sorts of things dangling around.

Would be fun if the major device makers got together and created a standardised version of the charger so you could use it with any number of phones...or other devices.

Not just lazyness, It's fewer moving parts. Wear and tear on the port is what used to kill my feature phones, and early smart phones. Micro USB has solved a lot of those problems, but not all of them. I've gone through 2 cables for my lumia 900 and it's not even been six months just because of the wear moving parts causes.

Elliott said,
I've never really understood wireless charging for phones. Why is it so much better than just plugging in the phone?

Why does it have to be "so much better"? Can't it just be a "little bit better"? Which is exactly what it is. I for one would like to just plonk the phone on my desk without faffing around pulling up the cable that's fallen behind the back of my desk and plugging it in. One plug for every device on my desk that needs charging I would see as a big advantage, rather than having 3 or 4 different charging cables.

Multiple devices and a larger charging pad would get the best use out of it. There was talk of a large desk sized charge pad at one time which would power your mouse and keyboard (also doubling as your mouse pad/mat) and charge your phone, tablet and anything else that was on your desk), it would be much more convenient than having several chargers all plugged in. It would also truly allow your desktop to be cable free, without having to worry about batteries running out in your keyboard or mouse.

Edited by Ryster, Sep 13 2012, 10:35pm :

technikal said,

snipped

In the future it may be possible for your whole desk could act as a charger... if it is a standardised technology we could see computer monitors without cables (throw in a wireless transmitter), and your mouse and keyboard would charge from it too. Perhaps even a light and so on, sure the technology isn't here at the moment but would be incredible to see this. Transferring power around the home through wireless and with wireless data transfer cables to plug things into walls could one day become obsolete.

Elliott said,
I've never really understood wireless charging for phones. Why is it so much better than just plugging in the phone?

I could see how inductive charging could be really handy for waterproof devices, but most smartphones don't fall under that category.

NFC is more useful, but the technology still has a few kinks.


You can just walk into a cafe and put it on a charging station or in an airline - both of which are happening for new Lumias.

'Apple, they almost never bet on a technology unless they are sure it will become a standard.'

I think it's more to do with the fact that Apple would rather charge premium for their own standard. I'm almost surprised they still use the 3mm jack.

2xSilverKnight said,
NFC can be used to transfer data between mobile devices as well ... its not only for payment.

No.

NFC makes the pairing between phones automatic and it uses Bluetooth for the transfer between phones.

NFC is VERY slow.

Face it Phil. The reason you guys aren't doing wireless charging is a). you didn't think about it quick enough and b). if Jobs were still alive, he would have.

TogoP said,
That reality distortion just won't go away will it?

Liars.

Would love to see what this lie is? Are they not making adapters or are they putting NFC into the iPhone 5?

NFC and Wireless charging will come in the iPhone 5s.

Typical Apple really. They release small/minor updates to their devices and leave out components. Then, they will release a new model with the missing features and millions will pay for the upgrade. The 4s should of had LTE.

techbeck said,
NFC and Wireless charging will come in the iPhone 5s.

Typical Apple really. They release small/minor updates to their devices and leave out components. Then, they will release a new model with the missing features and millions will pay for the upgrade. The 4s should of had LTE.

That's exactly what I was going to say. They can waste all their breath they want trying to tell us a million bs reason why it's not included. Apple sheep will suck it up like their momma's Jobs breast milk.

Truth is, they just want your money. LTE is not better now than it was before Apple supported it. NFC will be the same when they do. Wireless charging will still be wireless charging. Though news outlets will rave and foam at the mouth...

KCRic said,
LTE is not better now than it was before Apple supported it.

For the UK at least, it is. When the 4S was released the were no LTE carriers here. They day before the 5 is announced we had our first LTE carrier announced as well.

I'm sure the UK isn't the only country to have moved forward in the last year either

techbeck said,
NFC and Wireless charging will come in the iPhone 5s.

Typical Apple really. They release small/minor updates to their devices and leave out components. Then, they will release a new model with the missing features and millions will pay for the upgrade. The 4s should of had LTE.


Exactly.

DomZ said,

For the UK at least, it is. When the 4S was released the were no LTE carriers here. They day before the 5 is announced we had our first LTE carrier announced as well.

I'm sure the UK isn't the only country to have moved forward in the last year either

You're deluded enough to believe that EE launched an LTE service just because of Apple? Get real, they have been planning LTE ever since the two networks merged. Getting regulatory approval for 4G services didn't happen overnight you know.

Sure they may have timed the announcement of the LTE network to coincide with Apple, but that is pure marketing. It was coming anyway.

About the connector, if the cost concerns you so much, I'm pretty sure you can grab a cheap knockoff one in the coming months that will work just as well. Might fall apart faster, but hey.

edit: well, there's also the issue with analog-to-digital conversion and the audio out, which is a concern.

Denis W said,
About the connector, if the cost concerns you so much, I'm pretty sure you can grab a cheap knockoff one in the coming months that will work just as well. Might fall apart faster, but hey.

The problem with that is some docking devices have a pretty snug fit so an adapter probably won't work.

Denis W said,
ight fall apart faster, but hey.

Dunno. I bought a wireless adapter to connect my 360 controller to my PC from a generic asian company via ebay. I think i bought it 2 years ago it is still working perfectly.

Bought a generic USB external case via ebay too and after hum ... close to 6 years it's still working.

I don't think it's a problem specially since those generic asian made things cost like 10$ shipping included XD

Seriously, does anyone in the US/Canada actually use NFC in their current devices? I don't know a single retailer or person in Canada that offers NFC payments or anyone with a device with NFC that actually uses it.

TBH, when you sell millions of devices, that's millions of extra dollars tacked onto the overall manufacturing costs for each phone... I don't think the USA/Canada is ready for NFC.

Andrew Lyle said,
Seriously, does anyone in the US/Canada actually use NFC in their current devices? I don't know a single retailer or person in Canada that offers NFC payments or anyone with a device with NFC that actually uses it.

TBH, when you sell millions of devices, that's millions of extra dollars tacked onto the overall manufacturing costs for each phone... I don't think the USA/Canada is ready for NFC.

If a device like the iPhone included NFC, a lot more places would use it.

Andrew Lyle said,
Seriously, does anyone in the US/Canada actually use NFC in their current devices? I don't know a single retailer or person in Canada that offers NFC payments or anyone with a device with NFC that actually uses it.

TBH, when you sell millions of devices, that's millions of extra dollars tacked onto the overall manufacturing costs for each phone... I don't think the USA/Canada is ready for NFC.


Neither is England. Not even close.

Andrew Lyle said,
Seriously, does anyone in the US/Canada actually use NFC in their current devices? I don't know a single retailer or person in Canada that offers NFC payments or anyone with a device with NFC that actually uses it.

TBH, when you sell millions of devices, that's millions of extra dollars tacked onto the overall manufacturing costs for each phone... I don't think the USA/Canada is ready for NFC.

Extra dollars? Wow, so Apple would make $5 less per phone? Ya, that is a big issue.

The reason they don't have it is based on their failed effort to push forward with secure payment technologies, and major credit/banking institutions not having confidence in Apple for security.

The Google Safari security circumvention issue had backlash for Apple as well as Google. It demonstrated the lack of isolation in the iPhone and how easily Apps that would be managing the users payment can be circumvented.

If Apple was 'serious' they could have worked to get their version of the technology up to what CC/Banks wanted and helped to get retailers and consumers to demand the technology for purchases.

Which is why arguing that it is not used in your country is irrelevant. Before the iPhone, how many smartphone users did you see with touch screens? They existed, Windows PocketPC/Mobile devices had been around for years, but it was the iPhone that pushed the concept to the attention of average consumers and created a 'new' demand for the technology. The same thing happens when a popular product offers a new technology outside of itself. (How many iDock type devices existed before the iPod/iPhone? None?)

In some countries buying things with NFC and a Cell phone is REALLY REALLY common, just because the US/UK/Canada doesn't have wide adoption is irrelevant.

thenetavenger said,

Extra dollars? Wow, so Apple would make $5 less per phone? Ya, that is a big issue.

The reason they don't have it is based on their failed effort to push forward with secure payment technologies, and major credit/banking institutions not having confidence in Apple for security.

The Google Safari security circumvention issue had backlash for Apple as well as Google. It demonstrated the lack of isolation in the iPhone and how easily Apps that would be managing the users payment can be circumvented.

If Apple was 'serious' they could have worked to get their version of the technology up to what CC/Banks wanted and helped to get retailers and consumers to demand the technology for purchases.

Which is why arguing that it is not used in your country is irrelevant. Before the iPhone, how many smartphone users did you see with touch screens? They existed, Windows PocketPC/Mobile devices had been around for years, but it was the iPhone that pushed the concept to the attention of average consumers and created a 'new' demand for the technology. The same thing happens when a popular product offers a new technology outside of itself. (How many iDock type devices existed before the iPod/iPhone? None?)

In some countries buying things with NFC and a Cell phone is REALLY REALLY common, just because the US/UK/Canada doesn't have wide adoption is irrelevant.


Apple is having a hard enough time getting DIGITAL content providers to work with them... You try cash-strapped banks to update every POS device in stores...

Yeah that's something both sides will need to agree upon and set a roll out period.

McDonald's, Barclays, Lloyds, na, this nfc thing'll never catch on.

Wireless charging/syncing? How will we make a fortune on our new adaptors?

How about **** off, apple.

DARKFiB3R said,
McDonald's, Barclays, Lloyds, na, this nfc thing'll never catch on.

I've never seen anyone use a NFC on a smartphone for payments in the UK. I've seen people use credit cards with that technology, but not phones. The percentage of people must be tiny.

xstex said,

I've never seen anyone use a NFC on a smartphone for payments in the UK. I've seen people use credit cards with that technology, but not phones. The percentage of people must be tiny.


Try going to Japan. You can buy damn near anything with NFC. Japan tends to be a year or so ahead with trends so within the next year, NFC will be everywhere.

LaP said,
I did not even know what NFC was before reading Neowin yesterday ....

Because you did not know about it until yesterday, does that mean that it does not exist, should not be supported, or should not be used? Before yesterday, nobody heard of Lightning (the new iPhone connector) so nobody should be using it, right?

LaP said,
I did not even know what NFC was before reading Neowin yesterday ....

Most people don't know what it is. I think a lot of folks who have NFC phones were disappointed that Apple did not include the feature because if they had it would have really boosted the technology and made it more prevalent.

Indeed - this is a problem with Apple's heavy handed dismissal of tech they aren't pioneering. It's also a problem relating to people who buy devices due to manufacturer loyalty, rather than voting for products with their currency. There's no room for loyalty in politics. Blind support of inferior products will just slow down development in the future.

ahhell said,

Try going to Japan. You can buy damn near anything with NFC. Japan tends to be a year or so ahead with trends so within the next year, NFC will be everywhere.

Yeah, that's actually the only disappointment for me with the iPhone 5. I'd have like to have my travel pass integrated into my phone rather than carrying it around in my wallet.

I guess Japan is not Apple's biggest market and they tend to cater more to the US market, where I assume NFC is not that big.

Apple will be selling an adapter for backwards compatibility.

I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

primortal said,
I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

Really? I don't think it's Apple's job to make sure that their cable stays the same. Apple has continued to support the headphone jack, people can use that without any problems.

primortal said,

I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

I'm no legal expert but I'm pretty sure nobody has a case.

primortal said,

I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

My laptop lacks a VGA port (has DisplayPort); should Dell be served a lawsuit for that? (it didn't come with an adapter either, and those run about $15+)

Edited by Denis W., Sep 13 2012, 7:29pm :

primortal said,

I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

So what you are saying.. is that we should all get in on a class action lawsuit against a PC manufacture, and sue because all computers don't come with a 5.25 inch or 3.5 inch floppy. Sound absurd? That's because it is. Apple even warned what types of 3rd party devices may not work. Backwards compatibility is not some kind of consumer right.

primortal said,
What I'm saying instead of apple charging $30+ for a new cable/adpater to include it with the device.

And the price go up $30? This is a business you are talking about. Why give things away for free? That makes no sense.

xstex said,

I'm no legal expert but I'm pretty sure nobody has a case.

Well, in Europe they would have a case, because the EU requires all smartphones to use USB! Unfortunately Apple was easily able to circumvent it by offering a Lightning-to-USB-adapter: http://www.engadget.com/2012/0...tning-to-micro-usb-adapter/

But why not just simply go with USB in the first place? It's thinner, it's smaller, it's way more ubiquitous! Why invent a new connector that doesn't offer any benefits?

primortal said,

I'm waiting for a class action lawsuit. The adapter should be included with the iPhone and iPod by default.

That's dumb. That's like saying every PC manufacturer should include a USB to 9-pin RS232 Serial adapter in every PC because, you know, there are still accessories out there that use RS232 Serial (there really are, I use them every day I'm not being sarcastic but I do think its silly).

Michael Winkler said,

Well, in Europe they would have a case, because the EU requires all smartphones to use USB! Unfortunately Apple was easily able to circumvent it by offering a Lightning-to-USB-adapter: http://www.engadget.com/2012/0...tning-to-micro-usb-adapter/

But why not just simply go with USB in the first place? It's thinner, it's smaller, it's way more ubiquitous! Why invent a new connector that doesn't offer any benefits?

What? Are you checking anything before you talk? The iPhone cord you get has usb on it. It is no different than any previous device.

ILikeTobacco said,
What? Are you checking anything before you talk? The iPhone cord you get has usb on it. It is no different than any previous device.

Comment fail. He's talking about the socket at the iPhone end being USB, not the bit that goes into the power plug or PC.

TCLN Ryster said,

Comment fail. He's talking about the socket at the iPhone end being USB, not the bit that goes into the power plug or PC.

No he is talking about talking all smart phones having to be able to plug into a usb port(the European mandate he talks about) which guess what, the iPhone follows unless I am missing something and my pc has some special port that only looks like a usb port...hmmm... Guess the truth doesn't matter to people who hate inanimate objects though. Carry on.

ILikeTobacco said,
No he is talking about talking all smart phones having to be able to plug into a usb port(the European mandate he talks about) which guess what, the iPhone follows unless I am missing something and my pc has some special port that only looks like a usb port...hmmm... Guess the truth doesn't matter to people who hate inanimate objects though. Carry on.

Get a clue mate. He's talking about the phone lacking a USB port, and how Apple get around that in the EU by providing an adapter to allow charging with a standard MicroUSB cable, when what they should've done instead was to just put MicroUSB in the thing natively and run all their new accessories from that instead.

Allow me to quote from the article he himself posted....

To comply with the European Commission's insistence that all smartphones must have a microUSB connector

And here's the link since you obviously missed it...
http://www.engadget.com/2012/0...tning-to-micro-usb-adapter/

Carry on.

Shadrack said,

That's dumb. That's like saying every PC manufacturer should include a USB to 9-pin RS232 Serial adapter in every PC because, you know, there are still accessories out there that use RS232 Serial (there really are, I use them every day I'm not being sarcastic but I do think its silly).

It's nothing like saying that. There are not many devices that use 9-pin RS232 Serial around. There are literally hundreds of millions of devices that use micro USB being used every day. That's why no one has ever complained about the lack of a 9-pin RS232 Serial converter coming with any normal PC.

M4x1mus said,

It's nothing like saying that. There are not many devices that use 9-pin RS232 Serial around. There are literally hundreds of millions of devices that use micro USB being used every day. That's why no one has ever complained about the lack of a 9-pin RS232 Serial converter coming with any normal PC.

Well there was a significant amount of overlap between USB and RS232 so it probably wasn't the best example... but I still think that Apple doesn't need to include the adapter. They sell it. If you don't want to buy new accessories, don't buy the iPhone 5 I guess.

TCLN Ryster said,

... He's talking about the phone lacking a USB port, and how Apple get around that in the EU by providing an adapter to allow charging with a standard MicroUSB cable, when what they should've done instead was to just put MicroUSB in the thing natively and run all their new accessories from that instead.
...

That's exactly what I meant! Thanks!

ahhell said,
It needed a new connector because people weren't buying as many accessories.

and god forbid they use the mini-usb cord that almost every other device uses...

Buttus said,

and god forbid they use the mini-usb cord that almost every other device uses...

I believe the dock connector and this new connector (which is pretty inconvenient for those who have multiple accessories) actually provides additional functionality over a standard micro usb connector. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but one example I can think of is the dock > HDMI (or composite) converter. I personally use composite converter quite frequently to watch media on my Girlfriends rubbish old TV and stream it from home via my iPhone. Picked the cable up very cheap on ebay too.

I don't believe a standard micro usb is capable of this.

Axel said,

I believe the dock connector and this new connector (which is pretty inconvenient for those who have multiple accessories) actually provides additional functionality over a standard micro usb connector. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but one example I can think of is the dock > HDMI (or composite) converter. I personally use composite converter quite frequently to watch media on my Girlfriends rubbish old TV and stream it from home via my iPhone. Picked the cable up very cheap on ebay too.

I don't believe a standard micro usb is capable of this.

They could have extended MicroUSB similar to what HTC did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...tary_connectors_and_formats

Including USB compatibility, at least for charging, would have been a great step forward for Apple.

Buttus said,

and god forbid they use the mini-usb cord that almost every other device uses...

I agree that it WOULD be nice, but people seem to only be harp-harp-harping at Apple for this one. I just bought a new Samsung digital camera the other day that used a completely proprietary connector. If it were true what you said "almost every other device uses" then I would agree with you, but it simply isn't true. It isn't wide spread unless the discussion is about Apple not using it and THEN it's suddenly *wide-spread*.

Axel said,

I believe the dock connector and this new connector (which is pretty inconvenient for those who have multiple accessories) actually provides additional functionality over a standard micro usb connector. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but one example I can think of is the dock > HDMI (or composite) converter. I personally use composite converter quite frequently to watch media on my Girlfriends rubbish old TV and stream it from home via my iPhone. Picked the cable up very cheap on ebay too.

I don't believe a standard micro usb is capable of this.

Micro USB is capable of this. Here's an HTC One X doing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hguyYmXrHVM

Any cable is as good as another as long as it has the same bandwidth. With regards to digital content anyway.

Shadrack said,

I agree that it WOULD be nice, but people seem to only be harp-harp-harping at Apple for this one. I just bought a new Samsung digital camera the other day that used a completely proprietary connector. If it were true what you said "almost every other device uses" then I would agree with you, but it simply isn't true. It isn't wide spread unless the discussion is about Apple not using it and THEN it's suddenly *wide-spread*.

The topic here is cell phones. And in cell phones today, micro USB is the standard... even feature phones have standardized on micro USB. Apple is indeed the exception.

rfirth said,

The topic here is cell phones. And in cell phones today, micro USB is the standard... even feature phones have standardized on micro USB. Apple is indeed the exception.

Wait, so you think it should be standard so you can charge all your cell phones with the same cable? How many cell phones do you own exactly? The whole argument of using the same cable is so people don't have to carry around multiple cables for all their devices. If only cell phones are standardized to this micro usb who cares? Most people don't carry around multiple cell phones so that's just silliness.

Axel said,

I believe the dock connector and this new connector (which is pretty inconvenient for those who have multiple accessories) actually provides additional functionality over a standard micro usb connector. Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but one example I can think of is the dock > HDMI (or composite) converter. I personally use composite converter quite frequently to watch media on my Girlfriends rubbish old TV and stream it from home via my iPhone. Picked the cable up very cheap on ebay too.

I don't believe a standard micro usb is capable of this.

You'd be surprised what you can do with a 5 pin microUSB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link. My Galaxy S2 supports this. Although apparently the S3 has an 11 pin connector for more functionality. The 11 pin connector is still compatible with standard microUSB.

Shadrack said,

Wait, so you think it should be standard so you can charge all your cell phones with the same cable? How many cell phones do you own exactly? The whole argument of using the same cable is so people don't have to carry around multiple cables for all their devices. If only cell phones are standardized to this micro usb who cares? Most people don't carry around multiple cell phones so that's just silliness.

What are you talking about? There are many reasons why having a standard connector for phones is good. For one thing, you don't have to take a phone charger to your friends house, or many other places; chances are they'll have a charger that you can use. For another, many other devices do use micro USB. No non-Apple product uses the dock. So having a standard connector does reduce the number of chargers you need to keep around.

You went straight for the Kool-Aid huh.

M4x1mus said,

What are you talking about? There are many reasons why having a standard connector for phones is good. For one thing, you don't have to take a phone charger to your friends house, or many other places; chances are they'll have a charger that you can use. For another, many other devices do use micro USB. No non-Apple product uses the dock. So having a standard connector does reduce the number of chargers you need to keep around.

You went straight for the Kool-Aid huh.

Kool-Aid? It really isn't worth arguing as people who have a bone to pick with Apple are just relentless at it. If it isn't one thing its another, so lets just waste some more time on the Internet discussing it to death, ok?

My original point was: A Samsung camera I just purchased did not have this magical do-everything USB connector that you keep going on-and-on about. That is my point. Other manufacturers aren't on board but since anything and everything is all Apple fault none of my arguments really matter to you do they? Kool-aid, yeah...

Shadrack said,

My original point was: A Samsung camera I just purchased did not have this magical do-everything USB connector that you keep going on-and-on about. That is my point. Other manufacturers aren't on board but since anything and everything is all Apple fault none of my arguments really matter to you do they? Kool-aid, yeah...

Actually if we're talking about phones almost all manufacturers are on board with having USB as the standard charging interface for the EU. This is not only beneficial by standardising chargers as previously mentioned but also waste management.

http://www.gizmag.com/standard...o-usb-charger-europe/12108/
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igen...ersal-eu-phone-charger/1964