BlackBerry 10 sales disappoint; good news for Windows Phone?

Microsoft's Windows Phone product manager Larry Lieberman said in an interview this week that the company felt that Windows Phone is "solidly the third ecosystem right now" in the smartphone OS market. Today, it would appear that assessment is justified as BlackBerry revealed some disappointing financial numbers for their last fiscal quarter.

Reuters reports that for the three months that ended on June 1st, BlackBerry reported a loss of $67 million for the quarter on revenues of $3.1 billion. Analysts were expecting a profit from the company and revenues of $3.36 billion. BlackBerry said that it sold a total of 6.8 million smartphones during its fiscal quarter and about 40 percent of those smartphones used its new BlackBerry 10 OS, or about 2.72 million devices. That number included sales of the touchscreen only BlackBerry Z10, which we reviewed in April.

None of those numbers pleased stock traders today. BlackBerry's stock price is currently down nearly 25 percent as of this writing. The company also announced it would no longer reveal subscription numbers for its messaging service and declined to offer detailed predictions for its business for the rest of its fiscal year.

It would appear that sales of BlackBerry 10 smartphones have fallen short of expectations and unless the company can come up with a device that a lot of people want to buy in big numbers, that gives Microsoft an even bigger opening to grow its Windows Phone business.

Source: Reuters

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Mikee4fun said,
LoL at the comment Windows Phone is better than Android and iPhone IMO. Keep drinking the coolaid fanboy.

this and the android gaming console post shows how much cancer is here.

rfirth said,

Explain yourself then. Why are your correcting someone else using first person?

Well, he read my post and reproduced it with the error. I corrected him, that's all. Wait, did you want me to reply the standard "im not a fanboy, blablabla" ?

SirPeterPan said,

Yeah, I read the whole thing again, it really looks fishy depending on the way you look at it.

what other way?

Kalint said,

what other way?

From my view, I was only correcting what he read - "and a small fix, where you read iPhone, I meant to say iOS" - while ignoring the "fanboy blabla" part.

SirPeterPan said,

From my view, I was only correcting what he read - "and a small fix, where you read iPhone, I meant to say iOS" - while ignoring the "fanboy blabla" part.

alright well its Friday I'm going to go get drunk.

SirPeterPan said,
Windows Phone is better than Android and iPhone IMO. It may be failing to atract the masses, but the masses aren't always right.

So by your logic, Linux is better than Windows -- it is just failing to attract the masses. Right, gotcha.

runningnak3d said,

So by your logic, Linux is better than Windows -- it is just failing to attract the masses. Right, gotcha.

He clearly stated 'aren't always', avoiding generalizations. Learn to read.

And by the way, GNU/Linux is indeed better than Windows in some cases. Just as Windows is better in others.

SirPeterPan said,
Windows Phone is better than Android and iPhone IMO.

I really like how I can't even sync my favorites between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

.Neo said,

I really like how I can't even sync my favorites between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

I'm willing to keep trading that feature for all the other improvements anytime. However, that feature is going to be implemented really soon last I checked.

WIndows phone is a garbage. Just look at their market share. 4% Ha..ha..ha.. After spending billion dollar MS got a share of 4%. Truly innovative idea. Phone will have same fate as Bing. No matter how much money you throw at this black hole or make acquisitions and partnership, as long as you got crappy product, you will have miniscule market share.

Auditor said,
WIndows phone is a garbage. Just look at their market share. 4% Ha..ha..ha.. After spending billion dollar MS got a share of 4%. Truly innovative idea. Phone will have same fate as Bing. No matter how much money you throw at this black hole or make acquisitions and partnership, as long as you got crappy product, you will have miniscule market share.

Bing failed? Where and in what universe?

-adrian- said,
maybe you are looking on the wrong markets

Oh.. here is statistics to back it up then.

Smartphone Platforms
3 Month Avg. Ending May 2013 vs. 3 Month Avg. Ending Feb. 2013
Total U.S. Smartphone Subscribers Age 13+
Source: comScore MobiLens
Share (%) of Smartphone Subscribers
Feb-13 May-13 Point Change
Total Smartphone Subscribers 100.0% 100.0% N/A
Android 51.7% 52.4% 0.7
Apple 38.9% 39.2% 0.3
BlackBerry 5.4% 4.8% -0.6
Microsoft 3.2% 3.0% -0.2
Symbian 0.5% 0.4% -0.1

Do you see negative behind Blackberry, MS, and Symbian.. it means fail.

Here is source

http://bgr.com/2013/06/28/blac...windows-phone-market-share/

Auditor said,

Oh.. here is statistics to back it up then.

Smartphone Platforms
3 Month Avg. Ending May 2013 vs. 3 Month Avg. Ending Feb. 2013
Total U.S. Smartphone Subscribers Age 13+
Source: comScore MobiLens
Share (%) of Smartphone Subscribers
Feb-13 May-13 Point Change
Total Smartphone Subscribers 100.0% 100.0% N/A
Android 51.7% 52.4% 0.7
Apple 38.9% 39.2% 0.3
BlackBerry 5.4% 4.8% -0.6
Microsoft 3.2% 3.0% -0.2
Symbian 0.5% 0.4% -0.1

Do you see negative behind Blackberry, MS, and Symbian.. it means fail.

Here is source

http://bgr.com/2013/06/28/blac...windows-phone-market-share/

Just because it's a negative, doesn't means it's a "fail".

BTW, you seem very angry here. Care to elaborate why?

Auditor said,
WIndows phone is a garbage. Just look at their market share. 4% Ha..ha..ha..

What a terrible way to start a comment, stopped reading there.

Auditor said,

Oh.. here is statistics to back it up then.

Smartphone Platforms
3 Month Avg. Ending May 2013 vs. 3 Month Avg. Ending Feb. 2013
Total U.S. Smartphone Subscribers Age 13+
Source: comScore MobiLens
Share (%) of Smartphone Subscribers
Feb-13 May-13 Point Change
Total Smartphone Subscribers 100.0% 100.0% N/A
Android 51.7% 52.4% 0.7
Apple 38.9% 39.2% 0.3
BlackBerry 5.4% 4.8% -0.6
Microsoft 3.2% 3.0% -0.2
Symbian 0.5% 0.4% -0.1

Do you see negative behind Blackberry, MS, and Symbian.. it means fail.

Here is source

http://bgr.com/2013/06/28/blac...windows-phone-market-share/

LMAO!!! Thanks for the good laugh. I knew WP was a failure, but it is nice to see it in numbers. As for the folks who want to know how this is a failure ... if a product LOSES market share, it is a failure (at least when it is this new and doesn't have much to begin with). I foresee Windows 8 going negative soon as well.

runningnak3d said,

LMAO!!! Thanks for the good laugh. I knew WP was a failure, but it is nice to see it in numbers. As for the folks who want to know how this is a failure ... if a product LOSES market share, it is a failure (at least when it is this new and doesn't have much to begin with). I foresee Windows 8 going negative soon as well.

That makes Windows XP a failure then to, I take it. Got it.

Dot Matrix said,

That makes Windows XP a failure then to, I take it. Got it.


I guess you missed where I said: "when a product is this new". Of course a product that is EOL is going to lose market share, and that doesn't make it a failure. Is WP EOL and I didn't read about it?

Dot Matrix said,

BTW, you seem very angry here. Care to elaborate why?

He started his comment with Ha.. ha.. ha.. Doesn't sound angry to me.

Spicoli said,
You seem to have an emotional involvement here.

Well....... if so, he is in the right place. Unfortunately I would add....

runningnak3d said,

LMAO!!! Thanks for the good laugh. I knew WP was a failure, but it is nice to see it in numbers. As for the folks who want to know how this is a failure ... if a product LOSES market share, it is a failure (at least when it is this new and doesn't have much to begin with). I foresee Windows 8 going negative soon as well.

*sigh* It seems you, and others don't understand the stats being used for this failed argument. First off, those are installed/user base numbers not sales/market share numbers. Second the overall smartphone market and user base is growing not static or shrinking. The WP user base could have grown, which it has because we have market share numbers showing growing sales, but at a slower rate to the overall growth of the smartphone user base which would in turn show a dip in the percentage they have.

Without solid numbers and only percentages to go with you don't know what a loss or gain means.

GP007 said,

*sigh* It seems you, and others don't understand the stats being used for this failed argument. First off, those are installed/user base numbers not sales/market share numbers. Second the overall smartphone market and user base is growing not static or shrinking. The WP user base could have grown, which it has because we have market share numbers showing growing sales, but at a slower rate to the overall growth of the smartphone user base which would in turn show a dip in the percentage they have.

Without solid numbers and only percentages to go with you don't know what a loss or gain means.

Did you drink the strawberry or the grape?

GP007 said,

*sigh* It seems you, and others don't understand the stats being used for this failed argument. First off, those are installed/user base numbers not sales/market share numbers. Second the overall smartphone market and user base is growing not static or shrinking. The WP user base could have grown, which it has because we have market share numbers showing growing sales, but at a slower rate to the overall growth of the smartphone user base which would in turn show a dip in the percentage they have.

Without solid numbers and only percentages to go with you don't know what a loss or gain means.

Oh geez.. looks like some one did sleep during stats class. When we are talking about relatives we have to take either percentage or ratio as that will be comparison between apple to apple. So what you see in those stats are relative numbers among different platforms. Hard real number will be meaningless as it does not provide accurate comparison and I am not going to explain stats on neowin but you need to brush up some math.

Anyway, negative percentage means less people are using the product than before and decrease in MS and others shares are compensated by growth in Android and Apple.

Oh well.. Life is all good.. enjoy summer people.

Auditor said,

Oh geez.. looks like some one did sleep during stats class. When we are talking about relatives we have to take either percentage or ratio as that will be comparison between apple to apple. So what you see in those stats are relative numbers among different platforms. Hard real number will be meaningless as it does not provide accurate comparison and I am not going to explain stats on neowin but you need to brush up some math.

Anyway, negative percentage means less people are using the product than before and decrease in MS and others shares are compensated by growth in Android and Apple.

Oh well.. Life is all good.. enjoy summer people.

You need to look at the numbers better then because you're missing the point. The US user base for WP in April was also 3%, It's 3% in May but the overall smartphone userbase from April to May has grown. Thus 3% in April as a number of users is not the same 3% we have in May because the overall base has grown.

If you looked at things closer and at the real numbers then you'd be able to figure out that WP actually added users from before.

like normally People think the only market in the worl is the USA, Windows Phone is gaining pretty good ground oh iphone in many markets around the world.

you should maybe do worldwide stats on phones shipped by the quarter and not marketshare of just the USA, of course that is going to be rather small with the userbase there is right now, what you should be looking at is month by month, quarter by quarter worldwide stats and you will see a big difference to your facts there, APlle are looking at the big picture too with windows phone and have cause for serious concern.

You're kidding right? I've yet to hear anyone say Bing it. Google has been and still is the dominant leader when it comes to searching. Complete failure? No.... but it certainly not a success.

2.7 million shipped,and probably half of that sold, just like last quarter. that's about 1.4 million sold, and that's with releasing to their strongest territories, and having a large userbase to rely on. OUCH,this is bad,real bad.

WP sold 7 million last quarter, and that's without the release of the 520,720, 925,928. according to reports, the 520 and 925 at least are really hot sellers. The street is estimating Apple selling around 25-26 million iphones in each of the next 2 quarters. Another quarter or two of strong performance of windows phone,you will start seeing OEMs flocking to the platform,and it just snowballs from there.

vcfan said,
2.7 million shipped,and probably half of that sold, just like last quarter. that's about 1.4 million sold, and that's with releasing to their strongest territories, and having a large userbase to rely on. OUCH,this is bad,real bad.

WP sold 7 million last quarter, and that's without the release of the 520,720, 925,928. according to reports, the 520 and 925 at least are really hot sellers. The street is estimating Apple selling around 25-26 million iphones in each of the next 2 quarters. Another quarter or two of strong performance of windows phone,you will start seeing OEMs flocking to the platform,and it just snowballs from there.

There's also this...

http://www.pocket-lint.com/new...n-t-want-to-fight-nokia-but

Scroll down a bit and they say they've sold 1 million of the Ascend W1 WP devices. Q2'13 should be a very interesting period for WP overall.

vcfan said,
2.7 million shipped,and probably half of that sold, just like last quarter. that's about 1.4 million sold, and that's with releasing to their strongest territories, and having a large userbase to rely on. OUCH,this is bad,real bad.

WP sold 7 million last quarter, and that's without the release of the 520,720, 925,928. according to reports, the 520 and 925 at least are really hot sellers. The street is estimating Apple selling around 25-26 million iphones in each of the next 2 quarters. Another quarter or two of strong performance of windows phone,you will start seeing OEMs flocking to the platform,and it just snowballs from there.

Comparing the last three months sales of WP with BB ones is really brilliant..... How many WP devices were sold during the first three months after its laumch? I know I bought one the first day the HD7 became available but......

these numbers are very poor for BB, even Huawei announced that they have sold over a million windows phone 8 devices, I think we will see that wp8 will ship around 8 to 9 million.

No surprise there, the only strong hold BB has is in business and it's being picked apart from everyone. Nokia just announced yet another company is switching all it's phones over to Lumias so that's yet another hit to BB I bet.

Spicoli said,
You can't extract any useful data from anecdotes. That's just marketing nonsense.

I'm giving an example of how business is dumping BB, there's no changing the fact that BBs strength was with BBM in enterprise. Now we know for sure that business are starting to open up to the whole BYoD to work idea, we've seen more people using their iPhones and Android and now more Lumias as well in work.

You could call it anecdotal if you want but I keep hearing about more and more companies switching to something else or switching to allowing their workers to use whatever they want, and in most cases it's not a new blackberry device.

I'll chime in then as WP is the logical choice for corporations that used to heavily deploy BB. With the ultra-cheap Lumia 521 its even more of a no-brainer.

GP007 said,

I'm giving an example of how business is dumping BB,

I'm still looking for the example in your post. "yet another company is switching all it's phones over to Lumias" is not an example.

GP007 said,

I'm giving an example of how business is dumping BB, there's no changing the fact that BBs strength was with BBM in enterprise. Now we know for sure that business are starting to open up to the whole BYoD to work idea, we've seen more people using their iPhones and Android and now more Lumias as well in work.

You could call it anecdotal if you want but I keep hearing about more and more companies switching to something else or switching to allowing their workers to use whatever they want, and in most cases it's not a new blackberry device.

MS strength in the mobile market was, at the time of WM, the business segment as well; now they have made a 180 degrees turn and they are mostly focused on the recreational one. BB10 is a good device and have been around for a very short time. I wonder where are all those people preaching patience when WP7 was released.....
Mind it I am not saying that Bb will succeed, my point is that in the mobile segment the dynamics are so fast that everything can change in a blink and this is a factor that affects all te ones involved, nobody is excluded.

recursive said,

I'm still looking for the example in your post. "yet another company is switching all it's phones over to Lumias" is not an example.

Right, because doing a quick search isn't enough.

http://www.wpcentral.com/domes...-nokia-lumia-windows-phones

Yet another company switching to something else, in this case WP. Odds are they had BlackBerry before though the press release doesn't say specifically. RIMs control over the enterprise is shrinking, companies are switching to other platforms or they're adapting a BYoD model.

Fritzly said,

MS strength in the mobile market was, at the time of WM, the business segment as well; now they have made a 180 degrees turn and they are mostly focused on the recreational one. BB10 is a good device and have been around for a very short time. I wonder where are all those people preaching patience when WP7 was released.....
Mind it I am not saying that Bb will succeed, my point is that in the mobile segment the dynamics are so fast that everything can change in a blink and this is a factor that affects all te ones involved, nobody is excluded.

Sure, I'll give them as much time as you'd like but I don't see it working out. Blackberry is built around the BBM service and they not to long ago made that open to other devices to use. There should be apps out for iOS and android iirc. What else do they have after that? I just don't see it, there's no real ecosystem there and while you can add support for running android apps that doesn't really help things overall.

GP007 said,

Right, because doing a quick search isn't enough.

http://www.wpcentral.com/domes...-nokia-lumia-windows-phones

Yet another company switching to something else, in this case WP. Odds are they had BlackBerry before though the press release doesn't say specifically. RIMs control over the enterprise is shrinking, companies are switching to other platforms or they're adapting a BYoD model.

The big disconnection between people like us who come to Neowin and similar sites is that, as you just did, "we" say WP and or Nokia; average users say and mean Nokia.
Which are the strongest WP markets? The ones where Nokia was/is a recognized and respected brand.
Note that this is not just an issue for MS: again "we" say Android, average people say Samsung... If tomorrow Samsung would switch to Tizen the related Neowin post would probably have at least 300 comments but in the wild...... almost nobody would care.

Actually a company did just make the switch to Lumia phones just the other day and Nokia made the announcement, cant remember what the company was called and don't know what devices they switched from either.

Fritzly said,

The big disconnection between people like us who come to Neowin and similar sites is that, as you just did, "we" say WP and or Nokia; average users say and mean Nokia.
Which are the strongest WP markets? The ones where Nokia was/is a recognized and respected brand.
Note that this is not just an issue for MS: again "we" say Android, average people say Samsung... If tomorrow Samsung would switch to Tizen the related Neowin post would probably have at least 300 comments but in the wild...... almost nobody would care.

I don't deny that at all, but that's a different subject. My point is that business is key to RIMs model and business is dumping BBs and BBM and switching to something else or allowing workers to bring in their own devices. I just used the newest Lumia switch as one example of this.

Astra.Xtreme said,
So what do we think will happen first: buyout or bankruptcy?

My vote is on bankruptcy.

mine too. they were too greedy and did not strike a deal with any of the big boy phone manufacturers or OS makers before, when they were shopping around..

now, no one cares enough....

They are even bringing BBM to android and iOS. A little too late too.

They are desperate moves, not coming from position of power. I doubt they are enough to let them stay alive.

Too many companies had been switching from Blackberry devices. That is something they won't quickly recovery from. I mean who's going to flip flop like that? Especially when you are deploying massive amounts of devices to employees.

Only problem is Microsoft is updating its uncompetitive platform so slowly any advantage they might have could slowly evaporate. So its not really good news for WP, its marketshare is growing despite the deficiencies in the OS simply on the strength of Nokia's efforts. Sadly it seems MS is now coasting along thinking they are set as the number 3 platform, which is a fairly unambitious goal considering the competition it has for that spot.

In the same MS comment about being confident about their third place they also said they were unsatisfied with remaining in third place.. not sure where you're getting your information from.

But I agree that it appears MS isnt putting in enough efford. I wonder if the Windows Phone team is just slow or that MS isnt providing them with enough resources. Of course WP8.1 could be a big deal and change our minds but WP8 itself was more like Windows 7 compared to Windows Vista. They definately need some huge improvements, additions and in some cases overhauls to keep up with the competition.

majortom1981 said,
How is it slow? It just came out in october and they have already had an update.

You have to compare your products with the other ones on the market.
By now MS should be speaking about Wp8.1.

MS are aligning there company now to stop this slow process with windows phone, once the reorg is done and windows and windows phone are under the same division things will change in a hurry, but to say MS has been slow with windows phone updates is simply not true, they have a a gdr1 release, gdr2 will be upon us within the next couple of weeks or so, gdr3 will be with us later in the year and the big update 8.1 will be with us by year end or the beginning of 2014.

The Z10 is a nice device and I like the BB Balance approach of being able to split the phone between work and personal - makes BYoD at work actually practical. But the requirement for two or three servers to run the BES that supports BB10 is a right PITA.

Without an ecosystem it wil never sell the required numbers. And building an ecosystem on your own (without being first on the market) is near impossible as Nokia found out. Perhaps its time for BB to reevaluate the option to work with Microsoft on the definitive business smartphone.

They can't go at it alone, they need an ecosystem. Android will never have the needed security and Apple plays solo. Microsoft has a lot of experience in this market as well, Windows for business will be around for a long time and they're looking for partners to help them expand their business on phones.

I for one would LOVE a QWERTY Windows Phone. I'm sure I can even convince my iPad loving boss to get them for the company. He might have an iPad but he stil understands practical argument. Windows on BlackBerry makes for a powerful argument.

Spicoli said,
That's why they made the BB10 run Android apps. It usually only requires a repackaging to get them to work.

In other words its only Android with another name. Really, BB10 does not have anything to differentiate itself.

WinMunkee said,
lol, you fail to realize the amount of Android phones on the market are garbage.

great post, you'll do well here

recursive said,
You mean more room for Apple and Android. Windows Phone is still firmly in the 'Other' category.

Woudlnt say that. WP has been gaining, but really slow. If MS improves this, which they appear to be but slowly, then they could gain even faster.

recursive said,
You mean more room for Apple and Android. Windows Phone is still firmly in the 'Other' category.

Not in Europe, I see more and more WP phones around and people talking about it. It's no competition for the other two on top but if the trend continues here...

simply wrong, Windows Phone is the fastest growing mobile OS there is, google are stagnant and apple has been losing marketshare, and please just don't quote US figures because the US is not the world.

Well they are, there is no denying that a majority of people with Android phones either got them because they were free, or cheap. I'm sorry but those particular phones run like garbage compared to a Windows Phone. If you disagree, you must not have used a Windows Phone to begin with.