CNBC: PCs need to pay $600 extra to perform as well as Mac

Yep. You read correctly. Hot on the heels of CNBC's bold statement that Apple is beating the recession comes a range of new statements: apparently, Apple's Mac OS X comes with Photoshop, and PC users need to pay at least $600 to perform as well as a Mac. Read on.

They video posted by CNBC, embedded below, starts off giving a brief history of Microsoft and Apple's ad campaigns, and Apple's market share, etc. The video spends the rest of the time detailing the "true costs" of owning a PC, versus owning a Mac. So, what do the mighty technology experts at CNBC's On The Money have to say about it? First of all, Jim Goldman says that a Mac's higher price includes things that you're not necessarily going to get in a "stripped-down PC". Here's a list of things that "you're also gonna want to buy":

Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year
Multimedia Software: $80-$104
Photoshop: $140
Video Editing: $100
Music Software: $100
Geek Squad Visit: $129

That's taken word for word from the video that we've included. Ridiculous, no? Those are the things you need to buy "for a PC to perform as well as a Mac", apparently. Here's another quote: "Photoshop, you get that with Apple, you don't get that with a PC." "If your PC breaks down; Macs tend not to, if your PC breaks down, you're gonna want to call the Geek Squad."

A $699 PC will cost about $1500 for it to perform as well as a Mac, says Goldman. Next up is a list of intangibles: a MacBook apparently weighs 1.2 lbs. lighter, as well as has a battery life that's four times longer, plus has a "faster chip" and high resolution screen. "On an Apple, better than 8 hours [battery life]."

Remember what CNBC says: "Once you go Mac, you never go back." At least Goldman admits that he's a Mac guy. We'll leave you commenters to the video, so have at it!


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Totally FWIW, as I could care less what anyone runs, both the alleged plagiarized source & CNBC's Goldman are staring at their tonsils the hard way, if ya know what I mean... ;?P

Putting together a decent PC is fairly cheap today -- putting together an Apple system from scratch isn't going to happen. The whining about Windows has increased proportionately to the number of people running the OS -- if Apple had more market share, they'd have more whining, though it might not ever get to Windows levels because Microsoft doesn't do indoctrination starting in the schools. I mean look how long people were totally happy believing the world was flat?

Mal-ware susceptibility is over-hyped, & also a function of Windows market share. Sure Windows has it's holes, but, it's also undeniably the bigger target, with the vast majority of *all* code being written for the dominant, vastly more common OS. Every time Microsoft builds in a feature that could be handled by a separate app, they get sued, with often the same folks who complain about what's missing from Windows at the front of the line on the courthouse steps! That said, there is some justification for Apple including features Windows leaves out -- there are vastly more coders writing those needed apps for Windows!

Finally Goldman might be shocked to learn that P/Shop costs a tad more than $140, & that there are loads of free & lower cost alternatives -- that there are plenty of free & lower cost A/V solutions available, & that includes Norton -- there really is no such thing as Multimedia Software -- that the local Geek Squad spends most of their time sitting on their hands. He might also be surprised to learn the number of Apple users running Bootcamp just so they can run pro-grade audio &/or video editing apps written just for Windows, or that there is indeed popular, commercial editing software to go far beyond the rudimentary features Apple builds into their OS pricing.

Then again I never turn to the Food Network for tips on how to tune my car. I wouldn't expect anyone looking to any financial show for advice on their PCs.
;?P

I should also add, this lady host for this program. I always have had the impression she is so out of touch with reality in this world when she is giving financial advice. Obviously they are rich snobs. She only got her job because of her looks.

Typical CNBC crap. If you search on google, you will find tons and tons of complaints about CNBC. They are complete joke and don't belong on the air.

This video is nothing but pure blatant outright lies.

So the guy basically made up a load of 'facts' and there's a bunch of idiots watching who'll believe it.

This dude should be sued. Microsoft should sue the guy.

Apple's do NOT come with Photoshop built in for a start .... and what's that crap about the geek squad ? Mac's break too.

This video is FILLED with disgusting lies.

Microsoft can't add all of that stuff because people would cry monopoly and the politicians will jump on it quicker than a bar serving free beer. "Swarm! Swarm! Windows is playing my music with Zune software and I didn't tell it to. Call the DOJ immediately..."

macs are decent systems dont get me wrong. but only their macbooks. the rest is software and kalaway works just as good on a $400 toshiba as it does on a $1400 macbook of the same hardware spec. the macbook won't burn your leg though

The best feature on a Mac... TARGET DISK MODE. Boot up and press the 'T' key. Use a firewire cable and your mac just became an external hard drive. This is create for admins, we had a user who ran over his mac laptop with his car. I was able to put it in disk mode and copy all his files from the computer without taking out the hard drive.

Oh man I really hate to be a "Mac" person in this situation, there's so much BS coming out of this guy I don't even know how he kept a straight face thru it. He's probably laughing his socks off with his mates off-screen and they are probably taking the **** out of him lol.

well it take all sorts to make up the world unfortunatly lately it seems there's more and more doinks munters morons and mactards everyday

Nortons REALY why would i pay 50 bucks to make my PC slower erm i wouldn't Avast home 4.8 is free
multimedia software cost me $zero dollars wmp + mpchc + wmm
photo/draw/manipulteing software erm another big fat zero dollars there to gimp/pain.net ( and free version of Xara xtreme full and free found on a pc mag dvd )
video editing erm another big fat nada i got sony vegas for free with my video card
music software erm also a big nuthin itunes is free wmp comes with windows
and evan when i first started out with a shiety old 286 + 1MB of 30pin SIP dram (notice i used SIP and not SIMM) i never paid anyone to fix it for me i rang a comp shop asked a few Q?'s and fixed it myself

Okay, I'll play the game. I have $3,000 dollar budget for a computer. What can I get from Apple and what can I get from any PC vendor?

Again you don't need all this stuff if you don't want all of this stuff, and most PC's laptops now have the stuff built in like Mac. If you put some people who are PC guys on that show than you can have a debate. You can't trust them when they are all Mac slappies.

Insider: Goldman uses a PC. :0

This is a waste of time, let's move on. Oh, here's my own little chart. :D

Norton AV (mega crap) - Avast! Home Edition (mega free)
Multimedia Software - WMP, iTunes (lol), Zune, VLC, WMC, QuickPlay (<--- meh) (all free)
Photoshop - Paint.NET (free)
Video Editing - There's always Windows Movie Maker (It'll get better with those Live Waves coming through)
Music Software - Audacity (free)
Geek Squad Visit - People actually go there? D: One of them recommended that I install Webroot Anti-Spyware and McAfee to "protect" my computer while using IE7. :faint:

lol actually photoshop elements comes free with any wacom tablet, and why would you wan't to use photoshop without a tablet?

this article was a huge waste of time, stupid advertising machine (nbc universal).

Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year
Multimedia Software: $80-$104
Photoshop: $140
Video Editing: $100
Music Software: $100
Geek Squad Visit: $129

AVG - Free
Photoshop: 199 upgrade 699 full - same price for windows or mac actually it comes with both. I have CS4
All the others listed were to vague to reply to but I am sure I can get freeware to do all of it.

If you can use all of said software, odds are you wont ever need to have your pc destroyed by Geek Squad.

That guy is extremely biased, to the point that he's nieve... and probably apple paid him for that lol... what could be better than another anti-microsoft commercial...?? lol... a news anchor saying macs are better.. ;)

Who cares if macs get less viruses... the OS looks like crap... and as we all know... u can download tons of anti-virus programs for free!

Total bs.. =)

I love how the guy thinks that no one apparently needs any office software.

It's kind of indicative to how much actual work misinformed mac fanboys actually do.

I just had to comment on this as its totally idiotic.

Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year
Multimedia Software: $80-$104
Photoshop: $140
Video Editing: $100
Music Software: $100
Geek Squad Visit: $129

Free Antivirus: AVG or Avast, not to mention free Antispyware with Windows Defender
Free Multimedia software: Audacity
Free Image editing: Numerous of free ones out there, just search google.
Free Video editing: Windows movie maker
Free music software: Audacity
Geek Squad Visit? If you don't know anything about computers this might be necessary, but not anymore expensive than the Apple total care or whatever its called.

Brill said,
I just had to comment on this as its totally idiotic.


Free Antivirus: AVG or Avast, not to mention free Antispyware with Windows Defender
Free Multimedia software: Audacity
Free Image editing: Numerous of free ones out there, just search google.
Free Video editing: Windows movie maker
Free music software: Audacity
Geek Squad Visit? If you don't know anything about computers this might be necessary, but not anymore expensive than the Apple total care or whatever its called.

not to mention the hassle of being without a laptop for a few weeks while apple works on it.

Brill said,
I just had to comment on this as its totally idiotic.


Free Antivirus: AVG or Avast, not to mention free Antispyware with Windows Defender
Free Multimedia software: Audacity
Free Image editing: Numerous of free ones out there, just search google.
Free Video editing: Windows movie maker
Free music software: Audacity
Geek Squad Visit? If you don't know anything about computers this might be necessary, but not anymore expensive than the Apple total care or whatever its called.

Plus Antivirus is a smart move wasnt there article about apple recommending antivirus programs.
Multimedia Software: windows media player included
Photoshop: i dont use it so y would i pay for it

amongst all the other inaccuracies, when he listed the PC makers he started with Hewlett Packard and ended with HP.... sheesh

Whoa... that's BOLD! That dude is totally off his rocker! I love Macs as well, but holy hell? If i could afford to get a nice Mackbook i would (but i would run Windows on it )

Ha ha ha, this mofo (Goldman) doesn't know what Photoshop is... And I guess he's never seen Mac's BSOD (B as in black).

Thunderbuck said,
Most versions of Windows out there include Media Center, and Windows Media Player itself is no slouch. Won't work with your iPod? Download iTunes.

You could also download Winamp which comes with an iPod plugin

Antivirus: Avast, cost, $0.
Image Editing: Gimp, cost, $0.
Anyway, you get the point..... Stupid article.


The many other alternatives you can find for free, cost: $0.

I wouldn't call myself a "Windows fanboi", and I've watched Jim Goldman on CNBC for years and generally find his coverage okay, but this is disingenuous at best.

Even granting the "anti-virus" advantage (questionable in itself; Macs never get viruses?), and that, no Windows doesn't come with music-editing software, the rest of Goldman's claims are BS. "Photoshop"? I'm going to assume he erroneously used that as a generic name for image editing software in general. And, true, iPhoto is nice, but Windows Live Photo Gallery gives a lot of opportunity for basic adjustments.

Windows Live Movie Maker is actually a very nice editing app. In fact, I find I use it more than Adobe Premiere Elements, particularly since its capture functions are far more reliable.

And exactly what "multimedia" software is he talking about? Most versions of Windows out there include Media Center, and Windows Media Player itself is no slouch. Won't work with your iPod? Download iTunes.

I'm usually hesitant to recommend a Windows configuration that depends on downloads, but in the case of the Windows Live apps, Microsoft itself gives firm, obvious guidance after a Windows install, and the installation itself is pretty painless. And everyone knows iTunes by now...

Funny that many websites are saying Goldman is an idiot and all he is doing is repeating what Arik Hesseldahl said a week ago.

i bought a poshat refurb ipod touch from the apple store once and the wifi was broken on it when i got it..sent it back 2 apple twice and they said it was fine and nothing was wrong.bought a new ipod touch of the exact same specs and it works fine for me..what kind of tech support is that..my arse! zune is the way to go now..keep ur apple crap...btw..there are a helluva lot more freeware alternatives for pc than mac, ie paint.net vs photocrap cs4

Windows7even said,
i bought a poshat refurb ipod touch from the apple store once and the wifi was broken on it when i got it..sent it back 2 apple twice and they said it was fine and nothing was wrong.bought a new ipod touch of the exact same specs and it works fine for me..what kind of tech support is that..my arse! zune is the way to go now..keep ur apple crap...btw..there are a helluva lot more freeware alternatives for pc than mac, ie paint.net vs photocrap cs4


Why did you buy a new Apple product when they would not fix the broken one you purchased? I wouldn't do business with a company that did that.

Regarding Jim Goldman's comments on the "hidden costs" of owning a windows PC vs a Mac:

On the $50 for Security software claim, 2 points:

1. The days of Mac's being somehow impervious to viruses, etc. are drawing to a close, in large part due to the platform's increasing popularity. Hackers are profit-driven, clever guys. If there's a market for Mac-based malware, they'll find ways to exploit it. The New York Times and others covered the story:
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...of-the-botnets/

2. There are plenty of PC security solutions for Windows that don't cost a dime, and arguably do a better job than the paid-for ones.

On the $129 for Geek Squad, 2 points

1. I agree with the points made by others here that somehow all PC buyers have a $129 Geek Squad diagnostic visit in their near future is an overstatement, to say the least.
2. There are also a number of remote PC support solutions out there that can address just about any software issue on a PC that can connect to the Internet. For people who need "professional help" to get their machine back to good performance, these remote PC support services provide the service on demand for a fraction of the cost of the Geek Squad.

As several have pointed out there are lots of free or very low cost solutions available for windows users that provide comparable benefits to the software that is provided in a Mac for "free."


As if Apple doesnt' seem desperate enough with their new ads, now they are bribing someone to spew out this sewage? Wow. Another new low for Apple.

We all know that Macs don't come with Photoshop, they come with iPhoto. Windows has softwre just as powerful so take $140 off the bill. AVG free is... oh that's right... FREE... take another $50 off. Only the completely clueless need a "Geeksquad" visit on their initial purchase and this can apply to Mac people as much as PC so in fairness we can take that off the bill. Music software? Alright, Windows doesn't have that by default. Add it on only if you need it. Windows has Movie Maker and PhotoStory built in. If you need something more then go ahead and get Premiere Elements I guess but again only if you need it.

So we've gone from $600 to zero unless you need the functionality of advanced software like Photoshop and Premiere but that's not standard on a Mac either.

Always good to start the day with a laugh. Thanks, CNBC!

Once you go Mac, you never go back
Yup, that's why they invented BootCamp and use the fact that Macs can run Windows as one of the top reasons to "switch". Ha ha ha, this guy is hilarious.

Alright, I will give this one a go. I just bought a Dell XPS M1530. Integrated webcam, solid state hard drive, fingerprint reader, bluray, HDMI, the fastest graphics they sell, 4 gigs of memory, 2.3 gig processor. Final price: $1500

The closest thing that Mac has that is comparable is $3000. I COULD BUY TWO of what I have for that price! Instead, I opted to buy my Xbox 360, my windows mobile smartphone and my Zune 120 gig. and I still came out less than buying a mac.

I don't use photoshop and have no need for it. I use paint.net (free) gimp (free) and picasa (free).

I don't use real-time anti-virus because I pay attention to what I do, BUT I do an occational manual scan with clamwin AV (free). If I did want to run real-tim AV I would use AVG (free).

I don't do video editing but if I did, I would try to find something free (see a trend here?)

Music software? Really? WTF? zune, Itunes, windows media, foobar, etc... (all free). Editing? Alternative for garageband? I would use Reaper (free) or Audacity (free).

As far as the geek squad goes, well, first of all I have a warranty for 2 years. So uhm... no. Then that is also assuming that your crappy mac doesn't breakdown after 2 years as well. Point moot!

Mac users have been trying to justify their purchases (and wasted money) by putting down windows for years. Unfortunately the silent majority won't speak up and its killing me. I love Vista, it serves my needs. I would never in a million years pay for something that is twice as much and get twice as less.

What a tool. So many qualified people don't have jobs and idiots like this guy get hired to report on **** they know nothing about and with extreme bias on top of that.

Wow my heart just skipped a few beats listening to that... i guess my body was trying to shut itself down. Who in the world, with more than 2 active braincells, is going to swallow that?

the list of software is laughable .

i have a pc and non of above i went/use.

so now gimme +600$ for my pocket please!

lol, he lost all credibility the moment he said "Photoshop, you get that with Apple, you don't get that with a PC.".

[< snipped > - Calum]. Adobe suites are especially made for Macs.Even in windows versions ,U got to notice obvious change in the curser.The truth is : Every window software has equivalent or better Mac software.Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..

satanist said,
[< snipped > - Calum] Adobe suites are especially made for Macs.Even in windows versions ,U got to notice obvious change in the curser.The truth is : Every window software has equivalent or better Mac software.Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..

Lol what will change? Yeah, the all the big gaming studios will stop developing for D3D and go after OGL3 in hopes they get retards like you as a customer.

Sorry to burst your bubble, unless OS X is able to run on non-proprietary hardware it will always be a novelty OS for the cool kids. And the only game developer for you will remain blizzard.

At least you'll have SC2 and D3 to play for the next decade.

satanist said,
[< snipped > - Calum] Adobe suites are especially made for Macs.Even in windows versions ,U got to notice obvious change in the curser.The truth is : Every window software has equivalent or better Mac software.Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..

64 Bit CS4 on a MAC really???

satanist said,
Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..


Oh, now that's funny! Apple chauvinists have been blathering on that for years, but the last Mac game that anybody paid any serious attention to was Myst.

Gaming isn't just a market. It's more of a sub-culture, akin to the guys you see fiddling with their Hondas. Gamers don't just play games. Most of them--at the least--like to tune their systems for better performance. They like to play with drivers, with OC, and (gasp!) different hardware!

Apple will never be a gaming platform until they decide they want to accomodate this market.

satanist said,
[< snipped > - Calum] Adobe suites are especially made for Macs.Even in windows versions ,U got to notice obvious change in the curser.The truth is : Every window software has equivalent or better Mac software.Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..

How the hell can anyone figure out what you're trying to say? Pick up a handbook on English and learn how to use punctuation and spell out words- real words.

You know there's something wrong with the picture when Apple fanboys call others fanboys.

Adobe suites are especially made for Macs.

Really? So that's why new versions are released for PC first these days.

Even in windows versions ,U got to notice obvious change in the curser.

Wut? obvious change in curser? What does that even mean?

Only thing in which MS has upper hand is gaming.And thats abt to change with openGL3..

Yes. The entire games industry is going to switch over to a slow developing OpenGL 3. Just because Apple wants to.

hotdog963al said,
Great article. These guys really hit the nail on the head!
Butthurt PC fanboys!

noes! you got it the other way around. mac fanbois got the butthurt cause of this article..sheeeshh..

hotdog963al said,
Great article. These guys really hit the nail on the head!
Butthurt PC fanboys!

If it were the truth, yes. But it isn't. So no.

Title should read:
"You need to spend an extra $600+ to get the same hardware on a Mac rather than a PC."

As for the list of things that "you're also gonna want to buy":
Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year (Haven't had any antivirus software and I'm virus free. How? By not searching for porn on google and then clicking on every site and downloading that extra codec I'm being asked to install to watch a video)

Multimedia Software: $80-$104 (VLC $0)

Photoshop: $140 (Gimp or Paint.NET, both free. Or pay a visit to my Swedish eye patched friends, also free. Btw photoshop is $629.99 not $140)

Video Editing: $100 (Don't do any video editing dunno)

Music Software: $100 (iTunes or foobar, FREE)

Geek Squad Visit: $129 (This one is just plain ******* stupid)

backlighted keyboard - novelty
multitouch touchpad - big deal, Synaptics touchpads can do multitouch also
increased battery life - most laptops can get the same battery life with 8-12 cell battery and I don't have to worry about send my laptop back to apple (and remember to remove my hard drive or move all my data off) to get the battery replaced if something is wrong with it.

looks like another mac user revolt is coming. they found out that photoshop is not included in a mac. they're gonna want that photoshop included now Mr. Goldberg.

what now?

is this just about the software? i was hoping a list that mentioned how much would it cost to give a random laptop a screen with the same quality as a mac, the backlighted keyboard, the multitouch touchpad, and the increased battery life. all those little things that could actually make me think "this pc is worth the paying more"

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!

Thank god I didnt waste my time watching the video, thanks for the summary NeoWin. I shall waste my minutes on something else.

"epic fail"

Where do they find these idiots?! I don't really care about what people like Goldman regurgitate day in and day out because I know better than take the word of anyone on TV. What really bothers me is how can supposed financial advice based TV stations like CNBC falsely advise people who don't know better?! To exaggerate or amplify certain points is one thing, but to mention complete fallacies, now that is going overboard (Photoshop comes with a Mac?! ). It's just a shame!

Even though I'm a PC user, I'm not an Apple hater. I love my iPod (especially when I use it with the new version of iTunes, which I used to revile), and in general I think the whole OS war is silly. However, I don't really agree with the list of "needed" software.

* There are cheaper (and excellent) AVs out there, such as NOD32 ($40 1pc/1yr), and you can also find real deals for boxed software from online vendors like Amazon (Norton AV '09 $34.99 3pc). Also, Microsoft is working on their own entrant to the AV market, which should be a nice combination with Windows Defender, and I imagine would also be free like Defender is (NOTE: I saw a news item on this a few months ago, I don't know if that is still the current plan at MS).

* Multi-media software, music, and video editing at $300 combined seems kind of silly. He doesn't specify exactly what he's referring to. Listening to music, or making music? There are dozens of free alternatives for listening, including WMP which is bundled with Windows. Even iTunes is free! Editing videos is another matter entirely though, so... Dell is offering a PS Elements and PS Premier Elements bundle at a very nice price of $99 when you buy a new PC.

* Geek Squad visit is certainly something you "need," although I realize that we here at Neowin aren't your typical computer user.

In the end, the guy's argument doesn't hold water, since you can still get a mid-range PC with the software you "need" for under $1000, and with adequate care, it should last a long time.

If you're a family whose ancient computer has finally died, now is a great time to buy a budget friendly PC that will suit your needs. IMO that is not something that Apple takes into consideration, and I don't think that they have to either, because it's not their market, however much they would like it to be.

I don't know, but i think this "new" Apple campaign should be taken down because it is totally misleading the average user. The previous ads and this "expert" advice are telling many lies about Macs, let alone PC's.

Again with the trash talk about MAcs is invulnerable to virus/malware.... at every security contest the Mac are hacked few secs after the start, are the first to go down by a long way... what a joke... the videocard on macs are terrible to say at least... good to play to solitarie before vista, with vista and AERO I don't know... :-)))
The Macs are only cool nothing more, and the things "cool" are always more expensive period. At least the latest mac with Intel cpu are good performer on par with comparative PC, before with motorola cpu was even more slow that a pc at the half of the $.

1. Photoshop - why the hell do I need Photoshop to resize and correct my family pictures as a home user
2. I did not get 1 virus since, well Dos - Every virus problem is user problem
3. Multimedia software - now wtf is that ? I can play everything with my pc, don't need any multimedia software
4. Video editing - I think Windows movie maker fits my needs to edit videos at home
5. Music software - Come on ! I don't need music editor. For what ? To create a bell song for my videos ? And as a prof. u would buy logic or cubase for 400-500 $
6. Geek squad - whaaaaaaaaa ? pc broke -> warranty -> in time -> great -> out of time -> suck and pay
mac broke -> warranty -> in time -> great -> out of time -> suck and pay much more even for a ram

I hate this brainwashing BULLS##T

OH... AND BTW... A MAC COULD FREEZE IN THE BEST TIME - my pathology professor has a macbook XD

What alot of Bull***t, I can edit photos, edit movies, get virus protection and many more with "Open Source" or freeware software that costs me feck all on my Windows PC!

When you go to an Apple store they will tell you one of the top reasons to switch is that you can run Microsoft Windows. A quick spell check will rid that M$ for you though. At least try to spell like an adult.

macs arn't arn't all that live up to his hype.
#1. they do need updating. (not as often as pc but they do)
#2. mine froze 2 times out of 6 months iv had it (too many times i swear!!)
#3. they are expensive
#4. you get riddiclous'ly hi-end hardware.. i mean come on 2 video cards in a laptop? 752mb video ram??
#5. one year warrenty (boo just like everyone els)
$6. comes with software not the 30 day trial stuff
#7. crappy 4 hour battery life (its not 8 hours thats only in the new 17 inch model! cnbc moron)
the guy said at the store.. 5 hours battery life.. thats such a load of crap! i never see beyond 4!
usualy i get 3 hours on average depending on settings.
yes the part about the higher end resultion (that one is true)
but its a mac.... its hi-end thats the HOLE POINT of the high price tag..
I can go to a bankquit hall and its $10 a plate of food (highend) or go to mcdonalds and spend $1.00
being a guy and not caring about $ as usual.. I go for the more expensive places.

This has got to be one of the funniest thing I've read all day. Thank god this wasn't the other way around; it would've made us PC users look bad. ROFLOL

and no a mac does not come with adobe photoshop.. thats just total nonsense.
it does come with iphoto that does have some more photo editing features beyond ms-paint
photoshop its not.. but its not ms-paint either.. its ok.. it does some editing features.
my guess is thats what he was referring to??? (cnn moron)

macs are just like the commercials on tv say "think different"
apparently it has built in spell check into the os (as well as s dictionary)
is it better? worse? well its not worse then a pc.. true it is harder to upgrade
but we all know after 20 years any computer you get will be worth $10.00 computers are like cars
after a while they need replacing.. weather or not that be 1 part at a time.. or all at once.. but thats usually how that goes. their is no getting around that unless you have some kinda ipod touch or something and it has no moving parts.. then maybe you could keep it for longer then "they" want you to. we all know the goal of a company is to have the product break so you go buy a new one and make more $ witch would explain why medication never fixes your problem and you always half to go back to the doctor. they dont want you better.. they want you to go back so you spend more $.
companys never say thanks for coming in dont come back.. no they always say "come again"
if a company builds a product of extremely high quality its taking a risk. so the stuff they make has to change you more as they know if it works you wont be replacing it as often as they would like you to. so they wont make as much revenue so the product costs more.. they say a rolls royce never breaks down..
so it costs $250,000 for one? buy one and you'll never need a new car for a ridiclous'lee long time? so they make one sale every 20/30 years so the car is really expensive..
mac vs pc.. macs are expensive.. this everyone knows
as odd as this is going to sound
no 1 on the internet knows why! (their is something wrong there)
why are they expensive? do they advertise too much? is it extremely hi-end hardware?
once the public (or any person on the planet) finds out why macs are so expensive.
then maybe they will know whats going on with them..
dont bash the product untill you know what it is.


Yes CNBC you and your so called panel of experts are total morons! I have been using a PC forever and mac's every now and then. I know you mac fan boys are going to say I am a pc lover well yes I am why BECAUSE I CAN PLAY A FPS WITH A MOUSE AND KEYBOARD and I can get everything you have for free as well!

This is total propaganda that you have to pay for this crap
Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year
Multimedia Software: $80-$104
Photoshop: $140
Video Editing: $100
Music Software: $100
Geek Squad Visit: $129

Real Life which are all SHOCKINGLY FREE
1:Comodo firewall + AV, avg, avira and a few more I know I missed, mac only has norton and they have viruses too so really you save with the pc
2: Not to sure what they are refering to here windows has wmp and available for download for FREE vlc, winamp and oh my ITUNES!
3: Gimp
4: Windows Movie maker
5: again Itunes, winamp, wmp
6: Geek Squad Visit: $129 for a mac as well you dumb ass!

Last point I can make is that I can put in a PC what I want when ever I want and mac's aren't very modular so mac's aren't worth the $$ it's a marketing tool that gets ppl hooked and then they regret it, I know when I did tech support for inet ppl were ****ed how much more macs were to get up and running with all there other hardware cause they didn't have drivers or needed a mac expert out "aka geek squad" to set up all the mac hardware, they were ****ed especially when they thought it would be cheaper. This debate will never be won its down to preference and how much you are willing to pay but I hate ppl who only give one side of the coin and personal preference not what is right for the consumer.

Another solution;

1. Antivirus- Avast/Avira Antivirus
2. Multimedia Software - What it means? we have Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player (to play, rip, sync..really it rocks), Media Player Classic, Winamp, Zune Player, Picasa
3. Paint .NET
4. Windows Live Movie Maker
5. Music Software - Windows Media Player, Winamp....
3. Support: Windows Vista Support Center, Microsoft Call Support, Thousends of Forum (such as Neowin.net, winvistaclub.com)

Macs run like ****. WTF is that rumor about. Macs do not all run well. A friend of mine has a MacBook Pro, and it runs pretty sluggish, he even tried tweaking it, still nothing. I prefer PCs any day. A PC can surpass the performance of any Apple computer, mostly because PCs aren't as proprietary.

what is a mac?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16834100048
really new parts.. for a really high price! thats the short version of it.
look at the link.. do those parts look old? or slow? or out dated?
thats why they cost so much. as odd as this is going to sound.. (as iv never heard anyone say this)
look at the link am i wrong? am i right?
my mac is 6 months old and i have the exact same specs but im a 2.53 ghz cpu not the 2.66
thats the only difference.
as a computer how is it? well no blue-ray.. witch is bull crap for a computer this expensive.
other then that its pretty good. os froze 2 or 3 times.. (out of the 6 months iv had it on) i reboot it when i half to
is it perfect? no.. the best? no.. better then windows? "in some ways" not in everyway..
no registry for example.. however no add/remove to uninstall software (you half to drag it to trash can) the icon
do i like it.. i do.. do i miss owning a pc.. "kinda" my advice is a mac is not for everyone. however it does have a lot of things to offer. (just as the pc side does)


i was also thinking right now. if u contact apple and tell them that goldman said this on tv. wouldnt apple be pretty upset? I mean, he is saying that apple comes with photoshop. i already had someone ask me today.

Wow, this is just sad. Unfortunately, there are probably millions of people that watch CNBC and will probably believe all this junk.

Really? Geek Squad? I wouldn't let an employee of Best Buy touch my system with a 10 foot pole.

I bet this guy is getting bombarded with e-mails.

Can we say Apple pay-off?

From what I've read, he is wrong quite often. Mr. Brown University should not be sitting on a tech board for CNBC.

I got money on a retraction statement coming from Mr. Goldman in a few days when people started questioning "Where's my free Photoshop". I bet the folks at Adobe saw they video and said "He said WHAT?!!? WHAT did he just say!?!"

rkenshin said,
From what I've read, he is wrong quite often. Mr. Brown University should not be sitting on a tech board for CNBC.

I got money on a retraction statement coming from Mr. Goldman in a few days when people started questioning "Where's my free Photoshop". I bet the folks at Adobe saw they video and said "He said WHAT?!!? WHAT did he just say!?!"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837914/

What seems to get forgotten, is that Apple bundle a lot of products with OSX, but if Microsoft did the same, it would be slammed as anti-competitive etc. Microsoft are in trouble for putting IE in Windows and are due for some big fines from the European Union because of it. Microsoft has the resources to make and bundle everything for free, like a 3D Max type program, Photoshop clone, SQL Server, Exchange, you name it. But if they did they would get slammed. The things that Apple get praised for, Garageband, iLife etc shouldn't be included in an OS. Apple have to throw all that in, otherwise very few people would buying Macs.

I love the comments on 'intangibles'; hard to defend, no? And didn't Apple get sued about the "High(er)- Res screen claim?

At least this idiot had the decency to admit he's a Mac "guy" @ the end... talk about a load of FUD...

Somebody contact Jim Goldman and ask him where is Photoshop that comes with all macs. That just ****ES me off about the spread of utter false information. That female reporter was just acting like everything he said was true and i'm sure the public believed him too. I CAN'T believe they did that.

*Updated* I submitted a complaint form to CNBC

I would just like to say that Jim Goldman is spreading complete lies on your show. On April 17th, 10:45, Jim Goldman stated that Photoshop comes free with an Apple computer. This is ABSOLUTELY False. Apple does not give you photoshop for free. Jim Goldman also stated that Multimedia software costs about $80-$104. All PCs come with simple multimedia software and if they don't you can download the Windows Live suite for free. Jim Goldman is a liar and is completely biast towards apple. I am utterly dissapointed for letting this man on CNBC and I will not watch it again because of this.

Thank You.

When they retract all their comments on the news site can someone please update this page.

Currently their is too much stupidity.

This is disturbing to say the least. I'm a PC person, and i always try very hard to keep in the middle of this argument as it's stupid to take sides in a pointless argument.

The thing that bothers me is how obviously sided towards the mac this 'news story' is. This isn't a news story, it's info-tainment at it's worst.

So let's go through the 'cost' of the pc
Norton Anti-virus: $50 - This is based on you actually paying Norton for virus scanning. AVG Free is better in many ways. There are a lot of free applications around. This is simply trying to find a cost
Multimedia Software: Windows Comes with a group of different multimedia software, windows live provides added functionality. Yes you can buy multimedia software, but the last time i checked people charge for mac software as well.
Photoshop (iPhoto?): Windows Live Gallery, Windows Gallery, Picasa... ohh my god they're free!!
Video Editing: Well let's fact it, this is the only fall down on the PC side. However Windows DVD maker isn't too bad, and i think it'll get better.
Music Software: iTunes is free on windows, Windows Media Player, Winamp, the list continues of free 'music software'
Geek Squad Visit: This comes down to the user. Computers don't break computers. People break them.

Overall, this is a one sided argument where the only thing that can be agreed on is apple has an 8% market share. Good job, remind us all how dominant the PC side is.

The other side, Microsoft would love to include free software on PC's. However companies keep suing them when they try. This is an argument that existing on an unbalanced playing field. How popular would the mac be if they weren't allowed to bundle safari, iMovie, iPhoto, etc etc.

Titoist said,
Isn't Norton like $20-30... not $50? I use Kaspersky and paid $15 for it.

actually, it's $39.99 US. i guess that is for a yearly sub

Who the hell uses Norton anyways? People who don't know better. Mac does NOT come with photoshop, and if they're talking about iLife... that would be included in the Multimedia Software category. Which Windows Vista (or even better, W7) has equivalents. There are so many good free virusscans out there.

Now how much do you have to pay to have overall compatibility which Windows has over Mac? Legally? Well first off you have to buy Windows, so that's what, 300$? Then either use bootcamp or buy parallels, 50$.

The thing I hate the most is how Apple and Mac users interchange the term PC and Windows without clarifying. Apple was obviously smart to group anything non-Mac into the term PC, but Mac users are just plain stupid to follow through with it. It just goes to show the incompetence of the people who do that. "PCs suck", but they fail to realize that Mac is also a personal computer as much as they'd like to segregate themselves away from that.

Oh I'll fight semantics to the end.

crashguy said,
Video Editing: Well let's fact it, this is the only fall down on the PC side.

Nope, that's false too.. Windows comes with Windows Movie Maker and Windows DVD Maker as you said that allow video editing as well as DVD authoring just like iMovie and iDVD.

i guess $700 of the price of a Mac goes to Adobe for a full licence and another on top of that for the Extended version of Photoshop

If Photoshop doesnt come with my MAc can i SUE HIM ?

or even better how many Americans are going to sue him or Apple for that false information ? :P

No one has asked the REAL question that should be asked here in this case..... How much money (or goods) did Apple give CNBC (or the guy that did the story) ??

Caveman-ugh said,
No one has asked the REAL question that should be asked here in this case..... How much money (or goods) did Apple give CNBC (or the guy that did the story) ??


Miss my comment earlier up? :P

I can see that buncha MS fanbois hacked Neowin.Truly Microsoft's Leadership in OS market pays of in some places like here.Pretty lame haters of apple putting their thoughts here.Tell me how many of you have actually tasted mac os x??
First get a copy of hackintosh and test it.Then comment whether you like or hate it.All mac"fanboys" have tried windows vista so it will only be fair.But if u really hate apple then SCREEN OF DEATH for you.keep hiding in old billy's panties.


satanist said,
I can see that buncha MS fanbois hacked Neowin.Truly Microsoft's Leadership in OS market pays of in some places like here.Pretty lame haters of apple putting their thoughts here.Tell me how many of you have actually tasted mac os x??
First get a copy of hackintosh and test it.Then comment whether you like or hate it.All mac"fanboys" have tried windows vista so it will only be fair.But if u really hate apple then SCREEN OF DEATH for you.keep hiding in old billy's panties.


[< image snipped > - Calum]

I have used a Mac before. My experience wasn't bad with them, but it sure as hell wasn't perfect. I'm not totally bashing them, but Apple tends to put out false information about their OS just to gain customers that may not know better. That's what this is all about, Apple and their ads.

satanist said,
I can see that buncha MS fanbois hacked Neowin.Truly Microsoft's Leadership in OS market pays of in some places like here.Pretty lame haters of apple putting their thoughts here.Tell me how many of you have actually tasted mac os x??
First get a copy of hackintosh and test it.Then comment whether you like or hate it.All mac"fanboys" have tried windows vista so it will only be fair.But if u really hate apple then SCREEN OF DEATH for you.keep hiding in old billy's panties.


[< image snipped > - Calum]

This article is not even about which is better, os x or windows that I can tell. It is about how some under educated moron went on TV to spout bile that is PROVEN to be false.

How can I say proven? Well I did just buy a Mac and I do like OS X but it did not come with Photoshop for free. The chip speeds are not "always faster" on a Mac as I can find a laptop for less than the 2,500 I paid for this "top of the line Mac Book Pro" that includes a better processor speed.

I converted to Mac for a lot of reasons but it was not to be cool, and it was also not because of some drivel that a wannabe geek said to me. I actually do like the operating system and that was the main reason I did it.

The hardware comes with the OS legit, it runs without any tweaking or needing to dig for drivers, and it works with every piece of software I needed. (Things I needed have OS X ports)

I do not have respect for people who switch to a Mac because of something someone told them. I am certainly not ANTI-MAC because I am happily typing this from inside OS X as we speak. If you want to switch to a Mac, understand WHY first, and learn what really DOES make OS X worth the switching.

I am a Windows fan that has used OSX, and I found it to be one of the most over-rated and underwhelming experiences of my life, I used it for 5 minutes, blinked twice, and thought to myself "what the hell is all this fuss about", hell I even enjoy using Linux more than OSX.

Also, I experience on average a BSOD (and most of those are caused by me tweaking with my overclocks) every 3 months, not bad for an OS that apprently BSOD's all the time, is it?

I've used Mac's before and they're nothing to write home about. I agree with Frank. I can't see what all the hype is about.

And regarding BSOD's - I haven't seen one in YEARS! Yes years. FYI - I run XP and Vista on my home and office machines. I also beta test Windows 7 which hasn't BSOD on me either.

Frank Fontaine said,
I am a Windows fan that has used OSX, and I found it to be one of the most over-rated and underwhelming experiences of my life, I used it for 5 minutes, blinked twice, and thought to myself "what the hell is all this fuss about", hell I even enjoy using Linux more than OSX.

Also, I experience on average a BSOD (and most of those are caused by me tweaking with my overclocks) every 3 months, not bad for an OS that apprently BSOD's all the time, is it?

I agree. I use a mac daily at school...brand new iMacs (as of 6 months ago) and they are nothing to write home about. The mighty mouse is one of the most annoying things I've ever had the displeasure of using. Then there is the OS itself...which..I could list out my reasons why I dislike OSX, but I wont. The short of it is there is absolutely no reason why I'd need to use a mac over windows. None what so ever. The guy who in that video is a tool, in fact all of them are.

BoneyardBrew said,
I have used a Mac before. My experience wasn't bad with them, but it sure as hell wasn't perfect. I'm not totally bashing them, but Apple tends to put out false information about their OS just to gain customers that may not know better. That's what this is all about, Apple and their ads.

What false info?I know that mac is not known for game.Do they boast about gaming in their adds??
And if U noticed,their is no gaming option is the the startup question abt ur work.They tend to talk lot about stability and performance which is no lie.Every one who had a chance with cant deny it.
And dude!!Thier is nothing PERFECT in the world.Its all abt better.And plz dont drag window 7 in this conversation cos that will be other days story.

satanist said,
What false info?I know that mac is not known for game.Do they boast about gaming in their adds??
And if U noticed,their is no gaming option is the the startup question abt ur work.They tend to talk lot about stability and performance which is no lie.Every one who had a chance with cant deny it.
And dude!!Thier is nothing PERFECT in the world.Its all abt better.And plz dont drag window 7 in this conversation cos that will be other days story.


****, I didn't understand what you said.

But to your original post: If you had taken time to read the whole discussion (which I presume you didn't, seeing that you don't even take time to re-read your posts' contents), people are attacking the ludicrious $600 (like, free Photoshop on a Mac? Can you please verify that?) statement and not the operating system.

Don't get your panties in a twist... OK? How about a pacifier?

satanist said,
I can see that buncha MS fanbois hacked Neowin.

The same can be said about Apple fanboys. It's truly funny that for years Apple users have behaved like elitist snobbist douchebags (this pre-dates OSX), and now that they get some backlash from the PC camp because their stereotypes about PC's aren't valid anymore they whine and moan and complain about MS fanboys while the truth is quite obvious: no other brand has bigger fanboys than Apple. If you want to deny that you are obviously totally brainwashed and there's no hope you can ever be reasoned with.

Pretty lame haters of apple putting their thoughts here.

Seems to me most people are just objecting to outright lies being told about Mac's and PC's. Because that's what is being presented in this video. Just pure lies. There's really no getting around that.

Tell me how many of you have actually tasted mac os x??

I have. I didn't like it. Do I have a right to speak now? It's funny how this is always the default reply from Mac users when confronted with criticism "you probably never tried it" And when you say you did try it and didn't like it the response will be "you didn't like it because you're to used to Windows, you don't understand" Yes, because of course someone preferring PC's over Mac's out of free will and judgment just isn't possible! It does not compute!

All mac"fanboys" have tried windows vista so it will only be fair.

That's a pretty bold statement. Do you have any proof to back that up?

But if u really hate apple then SCREEN OF DEATH for you.

I don't hate Apple, I hate the snob behavior on their and their user's part.
But, a KERNEL PANIC right back at ya, I suppose.

keep hiding in old billy's panties.

Keep worshiping Steve Jobs and paying his Apple tax.

Isn't the internet fun!? :D

satanist said,
I can see that buncha MS fanbois hacked Neowin.Truly Microsoft's Leadership in OS market pays of in some places like here.Pretty lame haters of apple putting their thoughts here.Tell me how many of you have actually tasted mac os x??
First get a copy of hackintosh and test it.Then comment whether you like or hate it.All mac"fanboys" have tried windows vista so it will only be fair.But if u really hate apple then SCREEN OF DEATH for you.keep hiding in old billy's panties.




Macs are Ok But I prefer PC I can do a lot of stuff with my PC that I could Do with My Mac.Not to mention there are way more apps for my PC.
Like I stated "Mac are ok but PC are better in my opinion"

k7of9 said,
I don't hate Apple, I hate the snob behavior on their and their user's part.
But, a KERNEL PANIC right back at ya, I suppose.


Keep worshiping Steve Jobs and paying his Apple tax.

HAHAHAHAH.
"Kernal Panic right back at ya, I suppose." Pure genius.

+1,000,000 to you. That's the hardest I've laughed this week.

SOOOO they're taking the most expensive products ever, completely IGNORING the free products, and putting them into a bundle and saying you need to pay this much.

Sounds like Apple paid someone to do this...

umm, they totally forgot about,

games: 70-500$
word processor: 150$
cd burning software: 100$
norton firewall: 50$/year
photo organizing software: 100$

WOW! That's 600$+900$ = 1500$ more expensive than macs! gee golly who would've thought?

Oh of course a word processor costs 150$ when Office only costs 100$ and is often included in the PC for much less. cd burning software the highest priced will cost around 20$, and there's free alternatives to nero, as well as a free nero. Norton is nothing when you can get COMODO. And Live Essentials can cover just about everything else.

Games are optional.

splur said,
umm, they totally forgot about,

games: 70-500$
word processor: 150$
cd burning software: 100$
norton firewall: 50$/year
photo organizing software: 100$

WOW! That's 600$+900$ = 1500$ more expensive than macs! gee golly who would've thought?

You're paying 70-500 dollars for games? What games are you buying that cost that much? The only games I've paid more than 50 dollars for are collectors editions of games like WoW and Guild Wars. But, and this a big but...but you don't need games to run a computer so I don't see how that can even be factored into any costs.

In total, if you get 10 games that'd be 500$! You just reminded me of WoW, that's 180$/year. PC users need WoW to compensate for the amount of fun Mac users experience on a Mac.

splur said,
umm, they totally forgot about,

games: 70-500$
word processor: 150$
cd burning software: 100$
norton firewall: 50$/year
photo organizing software: 100$

WOW! That's 600$+900$ = 1500$ more expensive than macs! gee golly who would've thought?


Games: $9.95-$49.95 (AAA-list PC games); add $10 for Mac versions where they exist
Word Processor: Open Office.org ($0)/NeoOffice (same software for Mac) ($0)
CD/DVD burning software: ImgBurn ($0) (also available for Mac)
Firewall: Zone Alarm Firewall ($0)
Photo organizing software: Photoshop Album Starter Edition (Adobe) ($0) (I don't need it; however, Mom uses it on *her* Vista Ultimate PC)

Mister Goldman; do proper research, *please*!

splur said,
In total, if you get 10 games that'd be 500$! You just reminded me of WoW, that's 180$/year. PC users need WoW to compensate for the amount of fun Mac users experience on a Mac.

You joking? I hope so. Cause that was the most apple-fanboy post in this thread.

splur said,
In total, if you get 10 games that'd be 500$! You just reminded me of WoW, that's 180$/year. PC users need WoW to compensate for the amount of fun Mac users experience on a Mac.

Now you're just getting arrogant. Just shut up, and stop being a troll.

Realize that WoW is one of the games available for mac, also.

splur said,
umm, they totally forgot about,

games: 70-500$
word processor: 150$
cd burning software: 100$
norton firewall: 50$/year
photo organizing software: 100$

WOW! That's 600$+900$ = 1500$ more expensive than macs! gee golly who would've thought?


haha wind-up merchant pwnage

splur said,
umm, they totally forgot about,

games: 70-500$
word processor: 150$
cd burning software: 100$
norton firewall: 50$/year
photo organizing software: 100$

WOW! That's 600$+900$ = 1500$ more expensive than macs! gee golly who would've thought?

What are you smoking dude? Games dont cost that much and here is other stuff to debunk your claims...

Word Processor: Open Office FREE
CD Burning: ImgBurn,. Burrrn, FREE
Photo Software: Paint.NET, GIMP, FREE
Firewall: Zone Alarm FREE

stifler6478 said,
You guys seriously can't tell he's being sarcastic? I know it's the internet, but it seems blatantly clear to me.

This video came from the TV, but its uploaded on CNBC.com

not to menton CNBC is microsoft's news source for msn

He was talking about my response, not the video.

Are people so shocked by the video that they've forgotten their language skills and common sense? Or the ability to read posts in logical order? This isn't doing anything good for our image as non-Mac users. Overreacting in a patriotic way is the ways of Mac users.

Actually, both OS's have basic cd burning built in. Insert disk.. dialog box opens and says "Would you like to open this blank CD?" or whatever.

CD Burning software. Same cost on each if you want to upgrade to a "Pro" version.

"By the way, just 2 days ago our PC Crashed. Because of what? A virus"

That's because your an idiot. When a popup ad says you are infected you click the crap out of it. You open all the stupid forwards that you get in your email. He probably doesn't even install any of his updates.

Hmm, its funny how they mention PHOTOSHOP specifically when they didnt mention specific brands in the other "stats" This guy is repeating what Apple said a few days ago. Apple probably contacted this drone and fed him the story.

Norton Anti-Virus: $50/year
Multimedia Software: $80-$104
Photoshop: $140
Video Editing: $100
Music Software: $100
Geek Squad Visit: $129

let's see

AVG Anti-Virus: free
Windows Media Player: free
Photoshop: free
VirtualDub: free
Winamp: free
Geek Squad Visit: why pay someone to "fix" my computer when I can do a BETTER job

seems that my computer performs "as well as a mac" and I didn't have to spend a penny to get it that way


wait, OS X comes with Photoshop? since when?

techbeck said,
I was about to ask the same question

sorry, i forgot to put in that i would find a free alternative if i needed photo editing software

simon360 said,
Since when it Photoshop itself free on PC's?


Photoshop is one of the most common "free" applications to be used on PC's... Obviously not in the legal sense mind you xD


let's see

AVG Anti-Virus: free
Windows Media Player: free
Photoshop: free
VirtualDub: free
Winamp: free
Geek Squad Visit: why pay someone to "fix" my computer when I can do a BETTER job

seems that my computer performs "as well as a mac" and I didn't have to spend a penny to get it that way


wait, OS X comes with Photoshop? since when?[/quote]


You might can do a better job but for the millions of average joe idiots, they will pay for Geek Squad like fixes. Also, your misunderstanding, Music software does not mean a player, it means music composition and editing software. Photoshop, yes, this guy is a ****ing tard, butpossibly meant ability to edit photos in iLife? lol I doubt it, but thats a possibility.

Yes yes I think I would love to give him a piece of my mind.

All he is is another stupid ass mac fanatic that knows nothing about the PC world and thinks those are the only products you can ever install on a computer.

Performing as well, and including as much software are two completely different things in my mind.

What happens if the person buying the computer just uses free media players, GIMP, AVG, and Windows Movie Maker? Maybe the person using the computer doesn't even need photo, video, and audio editing software.

What if this person has knowledge on computers, and can troubleshoot and diagnose problems?

There we go, take that $1500 price tag, subtract $800 and there we go. That $699 computer costs $699 dollars.

I still don't understand how they can claim Macs are so fast and never freeze etc. I remember a specific incident where I was editing a basic video in iMovie and the whole OS locked up. They are so full of themselves it's not even funny. To clarify, I'm not saying Macs and OS X are garbage, I'm just saying that they aren't as perfect as Apple makes them out to be.

I can usually beat mine into running slow. It tends to take a virtual machine eating up all the RAM, plus some online video, plus iTunes, plus 5-10 other apps being open. It handles it quite gracefully though and it's fine as soon as I close anything I don't need open.

BoneyardBrew, you should note that this garbage in this video didn't come from Apple. I bet their employees are going to peeved now when they have to tell 10 customers a day that no, you won't get free Photoshop.

Persephone said,
I can usually beat mine into running slow. It tends to take a virtual machine eating up all the RAM, plus some online video, plus iTunes, plus 5-10 other apps being open. It handles it quite gracefully though and it's fine as soon as I close anything I don't need open.

BoneyardBrew, you should note that this garbage in this video didn't come from Apple. I bet their employees are going to peeved now when they have to tell 10 customers a day that no, you won't get free Photoshop.

Oh, a lot of people are going to be angry about this. I can't believe that guy even mentioned such a specific and expensive program like Photoshop.

Well, we'll see how this rolls out.

god im fed up with this term "pc" god just call it windows, there is other OS's for pc's as well you know

what if that person installed linux

Antivirus, dont need one cause he is very unlikely gonna get a virus
Multimedia software is free, its sometimes bundled with the distro
Photoshop, just install gimp or thousand other fairly capable photo editing software
Same about video and music editing, its free
100 for geek squad

Here's my experience with a Windows PC:

Antivirus: haven't run it for nearly 8 years. No viruses, no malware, no problems.
Multimedia software: not sure exactly what this means, but WMP, Zune, WinAmp, VLC, and Audicity are all free and all available for Windows
Photoshop: Gimp is available for Windows, too, but for simple edits I prefer Paint.NET
Video editing: can't really speak much for free as I typically use Vegas 8. I've used WMM once - it wasn't terrible
Geek Squad: total rip-off, my 12-year-old brother would do a better job for less money

JonathanMarston said,
Here's my experience with a Windows PC:

Antivirus: haven't run it for nearly 8 years. No viruses, no malware, no problems.
Multimedia software: not sure exactly what this means, but WMP, Zune, WinAmp, VLC, and Audicity are all free and all available for Windows
Photoshop: Gimp is available for Windows, too, but for simple edits I prefer Paint.NET
Video editing: can't really speak much for free as I typically use Vegas 8. I've used WMM once - it wasn't terrible
Geek Squad: total rip-off, my 12-year-old brother would do a better job for less money


Exactly. I used Windows for my entire life, up until January this year, and never had any problems at all.

@Sam: Not running AV, is that mean to sound clever because it isn't. How ever careful you are there's always a chance of catching something. For example didn't Intel (or was it MS) ship a virus a time back? Also how do you know you haven't any viruses or malware without it?

Agree on the other points.

m.keeley said,
@Sam: Not running AV, is that mean to sound clever because it isn't. How ever careful you are there's always a chance of catching something. For example didn't Intel (or was it MS) ship a virus a time back? Also how do you know you haven't any viruses or malware without it?

Agree on the other points.


Eh? Oh, I just quoted that... I always used AV software, just to be on the safe side

JonathanMarston said,
Windows Defender and Malicious Software Removal Tool

That doesn't cover everything. It's a dangerous game to play.

GMail and Live Mail both have built in virus scans & If you only install trusted software (not downloaded ilegally) then I don't see where infection could come from.

The multimedia/video editing software you'll get free on Linux will not be on par with iLife. Gimp lacks a lot of Photoshop features too.

Kirkburn said,
That doesn't cover everything. It's a dangerous game to play.

Okay..with Vista we got a bunch of security things that will protect you from getting serious infection if any at all.

Windows Defender against Spyware

UAC for limiting app execution rights on system level

DEP (Data Execution Prevention) that protects kernel or you can define wider range of protection above just system.

IE and FF all have fishing hooks too and immediately shut down access to sites with viruses showing a warning message to not get in.

Malicious Software Removal Tool, just in case you do get problems which is very rare.

I ran Windows Vista for months without AV software and had zero problems.

PureLegend said,
The multimedia/video editing software you'll get free on Linux will not be on par with iLife. Gimp lacks a lot of Photoshop features too.


Want to bet?

I've seen plenty of free software on Windows and Linux that piddles all over iLife. As for GIMP lacking a lot of photoshop features, I'll remind you that GIMP is free, and Photoshop isn't, not matter what the plonker in the article says.

Boz said,
Okay..with Vista we got a bunch of security things that will protect you from getting serious infection if any at all.

Windows Defender against Spyware

UAC for limiting app execution rights on system level

DEP (Data Execution Prevention) that protects kernel or you can define wider range of protection above just system.

IE and FF all have fishing hooks too and immediately shut down access to sites with viruses showing a warning message to not get in.

Malicious Software Removal Tool, just in case you do get problems which is very rare.

I ran Windows Vista for months without AV software and had zero problems.


Windows Defender doesn't do viruses.
UAC isn't virus protection.
DEP is related, but doesn't prevent you getting it in the first place.
IE and Fx protect against phishing. Not viruses.
Malicious Software Removal Tool only covers the biggest viruses. And only comes out and (afaik) runs once a month.

Kirkburn said,

Windows Defender doesn't do viruses.
UAC isn't virus protection.
DEP is related, but doesn't prevent you getting it in the first place.
IE and Fx protect against phishing. Not viruses.
Malicious Software Removal Tool only covers the biggest viruses. And only comes out and (afaik) runs once a month.


Actually Defender does do some viruses, it is more of point of infection and can be anything from spyware and malware to tried and true viruses.

UAC isn't virus protection, anymore than SUDO on UNIX keeping keeping it virus free as people use to actually claim.

IE protects from more than just phishing, starting with IE7, it has several levels of security related to plugin/ActiveX and with IE8, even prevents Ad tracking - let alone InPrivate that will block ads, etc.

IE7 or IE8 on Vista ALSO run in a special protect mode that has lower security than the user actually running the browser. This is why when exploits in Java or Flash or even IE that have hit XP in the past few years tend to skip Vista, as even if IE gets infected it has NO Security that allows it to modify anything on the system to let the virus or malware 'infect' the system.

(Running IE7 or IE8 on Vista with default settings is the safest way to currently browse the internet, and that is with IE6 on XP being the least safe way to browse the Internet. - So quite the shift.)

Malicious Software Removal Tool is a ramp up to a full time version of the software that you will see for Windows in the next year replacing OneCare, and will not be a performance hog like other anti-virus tools, as it will either use the VIsta RT protection APIs or just combine with Defender and scan only entry points with routine scheduled scans.

As for the Malicious Software Removal Tool ONLY removing the biggest viruses, you need to go back and check your facts on that. Additionally, since it put out by Microsoft, it will clean all points of infection on many Viruses and Spyware that no other software has been able to pull off, or at least as fast of a turn around as the Malicious software tool.

Go look up AntiVirus 2007 that hit back in October, it and variants injected itself into systems on so many levels and in so many areas - essentially something that hit XP users and NOT Vista users. The MS Malicious software removal tool to date is the only solution that our techs know of that will completely remove the infection, from network hijacking to registry changes to all the little applications and device level holes it would add to a user's system.

And again, Vista users running IE in protected mode, never got this malware, XP users and Vista users running Firefox were exposed though.


You can easily run a Windows machine without active Antivirus software, rather easily without infection. My entire family and friends do as a personal note, and even my company's systems don't run any active anti-virus software. There was some Group Policies put in place at work and some employee training of basic things that go hand in hand with that, but to date, myself, my family, nor my company has ever had ANY infection, and this goes back to NT 4.0 and Win2K when we moved to the NT architecture full time.

I remember the days of NT 4.0 and how RARE antivirus software was for it, just like Linux and OS X because of its obscurity, that changed and changed big with XP's popularity. It could happen to other any other OS out there.

The difference is Windows NT and Microsoft have been beaten like a dead horse on the subject, and is why you find Vista and IE outperforming OS X and Firefox when it comes to vulnerbilities and code quality regarding security.

OS X is still very un-tested when it comes to large scale attacks, and Apple has a lot of work a head of them as their market share increases and hackers find it useful to bot out OS X and use the cracks in the skin of the Apple of OS X.


Also remember, 10% of UNIX machines out there are esitmated to be running 'hidden' bots with the users not having a clue they are infected. And that is not a large population to hit in the grand scheme of things, so it tends to be a lot of severs that IT people think are 'secure' because of the Linux and OpenBSD security myths.

Just last year several universities were hit with bots at the server level that leaked student information to the bot creators. And these were not just average schools, but places like MIT and Berkley, and even OpenBSD running the Berkley servers. Scary uh?


----

I do recommend most users at least run a passive antivirus software that does a basic daily scan at the least, and things like Defender and the Malicious Software Removal tools of MS do help.

Also running Vista and using IE in the default protected mode pretty much ensures that an 'unseen' exploit won't be able to modify anything on the system, so even if you get hit with it, it can't infect the system.

Also remember Defender DOES work with IE to protect entry points, as well as basic network entry points that could bypass the firewall.

That is why when you run WoW or City of Heroes or some other online game on Vista, defender and the firewall do applicaiton layer two way monitoring, and will prompt you if the game should be accessing the network. Which not only increases your system security or alerts you to malware, but protects other people by no letting your system become a freaking bot.

rm20010 said,
Unfortunately an Apple head said pretty much the same thing. (minus the ridiculous Photoshop inclusion, thankfully)

+1

They keep up with the childish remarks instead of showing the actual product, or real life useage

Well, the Genius Bar offers the same service minus the 'at home' experience. It's also free, mind you. If you live near the Apple Store, it's great.

simon360 said,
Well, the Genius Bar offers the same service minus the 'at home' experience. It's also free, mind you. If you live near the Apple Store, it's great.

The one in my area sucked. Poor customer service. But I'm sure there are other ones who have great service, so I wont go and bash all the genius bars.

alright now i'm really at a loss for words at how idiotic some Mac fan boys/girls are... if any Mac user even defends these folks, you're simply a moron

Deathray said,
Why has this been posted on Neowin?

Why not? Why shouldn't the complete stupidity of the people who wrote the story be exposed?

betadan said,
Whoa...whoa....whoa... where is my I just got a Macbook...where is my free photoshop?

I have a feeling that people will buy a Mac now (mind you, the less tech-savvy people), after watching this, expecting Photoshop and be sorely disappointed

...that made so little sense I'm at a loss for words. Faster chip?

He puts Mac fanboys on Neowin to shame.

Not all Mac users are that ignorant. Just to be clear. I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. Some he mentioned, but most of what he said was complete bull****.

simon360 said,
...that made so little sense I'm at a loss for words. Faster chip?

He puts Mac fanboys on Neowin to shame.

Not all Mac users are that ignorant. Just to be clear. I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. Some he mentioned, but most of what he said was complete bull****.


Couldn't have said it better myself, Simon.

simon360 said,
...that made so little sense I'm at a loss for words. Faster chip?

He puts Mac fanboys on Neowin to shame.

Not all Mac users are that ignorant. Just to be clear. I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. Some he mentioned, but most of what he said was complete bull****.

Completely agree. I've seen some extremely capable devs and engineers loving the *Nix core and OSX in general and let's face it, it's a beautiful system, but a system with flaws nonetheless. It still crashes, freezes, even blue screens. Not even going into the extensibility and upgrades to crucial elements like CPUs or GPUs which are pretty impossible of even if they do come up they are always behind the curve and much more expensive then exactly same PC cards, for no reason whatsover.

I understand some people don't care about that, but being able to upgrade your computers without spending a fortune or having to buy a whole new PC is something that Apple will never be able to compete with.

I mean are we really taking seriously a company with 8% market share. It's really kind of obvious why Apple is ticked and is trying through all PR stunts to fight back MS ads. They are like a spoiler brat now crying, screaming and kicking everything trying to say "it's not TRUE". It's somewhat amusing really.

simon360 said,
Not all Mac users are that ignorant. Just to be clear. I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. Some he mentioned, but most of what he said was complete bull****.


Thank you for that. I will admit my background is with Microsoft (everything from system-building to networking to developing), but I've always had a very strong regard for Apple's design and innovation. I still vividly remember the first time I sat down at a Mac in February of '84, and knowing then that it would change everything.

There absolutely are reasons to prefer Apple's products, and I respect that. It shouldn't require the kind of blatant mischaracterization that Goldman descended to here.

Wait how does a Mac have a "faster" chip when Windows/Linux based computers have the processors and chipsets way before Apple ever "refreshes" their hardware line for them..... idiots ugh

Exactly! How long did the MacBooks have the older Core2Duo CPUs? Yet they were, at times, more expensive than "faster" PC laptops.

me thinks they are shaking in their boots a little at the thought of Windows 7, its a shame Vista got branded the way it has but, i think all that will change under 7, that and i don't think Apple expected MS to bite back because they had let it go for so long :P

have you seen the latest Ads? its the same old tired lies, like OS X never freezes or screws up, which is still usually a fault of the user, goes for both Windows and OS X

Apple hated Microsoft ads a lot. The new apple ads prove that even Apple acknowledged how effective MS ads were. Making up lies just made it worse. they should change the guy behind their ads.

And yea, it's gonna be way hard for Apple to compete with Windows 7.

I think Apple is finally afraid that MS is actually coming around and seeing the light. They're (Microsoft) finally concentrating on quality and performance to a level we haven't seen before. And this all has Apple scared.

What would they do if MS put out a product that costs less, outperforms, and looks just as cool or cooler? Well it's called Windows 7 and it's right around the corner.

Apple is freaked so they're letting it all go to recruit as many new fanboys as possible before the shizzle hits the fan.

artfuldodga said,
me thinks they are shaking in their boots a little at the thought of Windows 7, its a shame Vista got branded the way it has but, i think all that will change under 7, that and i don't think Apple expected MS to bite back because they had let it go for so long :P

have you seen the latest Ads? its the same old tired lies, like OS X never freezes or screws up, which is still usually a fault of the user, goes for both Windows and OS X


+1

artfuldodga said,
me thinks they are shaking in their boots a little at the thought of Windows 7, its a shame Vista got branded the way it has but, i think all that will change under 7, that and i don't think Apple expected MS to bite back because they had let it go for so long :P

have you seen the latest Ads? its the same old tired lies, like OS X never freezes or screws up, which is still usually a fault of the user, goes for both Windows and OS X

+10

gazebee_ said,
What an utter load of crap.

I could continue reading comments about 'wtf' etc etc, but i'll just stop here and say yeah. complete crap.

I'm gonna want to buy Photoshop? Video editing software? Music software (what IS that supposed to be anyway? A GarageBand alternative?)?, there are free AV alternatives on the market, which I guess this idiot doesn't know. My PC all in all cost $850 custom built. I challenge Apple to make a Mac that will deliver the same type of performance and user experience for the same cost.

How can antivirus and Geek Squad count. Seriously Geek squad?

I do not know much about mac's but do macs come with photoshop installed?

And people call Neowin Biased.

Caveman-ugh said,
Sooner or later Macs are going to need "Antivrus Software"..... that is if this sort of "Advertising" works for it !!!!


Anyone that runs any OS without some sort of Antivirus, Firewalls, IDS etc in a corporate environment is stupid. That is unless they do no bussiness networked to the outside world.
Tranining is important too as there are lots of stupid people out there.

um that is just a BS article... geek squad visit? give me a break.. if they cant set up a PC they are going to have problems with a Mac also they have all the same ports... maybe we should look at how much Apple stock Goldman has? or how much Apple gives him for free? All systems have problems... at some point Mac's will need Anti-Virus software too... and music software? um WMP and iTunes are FREE.. Video Editing? free apps too... need a word processor? open office....... so give me a freaking break

and "Photoshop, you get that with Apple, you don't get that with a PC." comon..... someone educate this guy PLEASE... either direction its going to cost you $500+ depending on what "Photoshop" you buy

and what does photoshop, av software and music software have to do with "performance"? thats usability

Everyone needs Photoshop. It's not like people just throw their crap on the computer and don't even bother organizing it. That never happens. Everyone edits all of their photos all the time. Including me even though I don't have a photo-editor installed I just do it by rewriting certain portions of the files by hand.

Everyone needs a music editor as well. Everyone edits all their song files. Nobody just rips music to their computer and their player handle the organization. Nope, they edit each file. Again, even though I don't have a music editor installed I just do it by editing the files by hand. Also WMP and MMC are not installed on any Windows computers. Those lawsuits Microsoft is facing in the EU about having these things installed by default are just urban legends.

Everyone edits video too. I film lots of video with my non-existent camcorder and I edit it with the software that isn't installed on my computer... oh wait, sorry, I do have video editing software installed because it came on my computer by default. Wait, holy crap I have two programs that do it. What? According to CNBC this couldn't be. Whatever... Well I still edit that non-existence video by hand anyway.

This guy is a retard. I bet his next segment on PCs vs Macs will be talking about how Macs are awesome because they come with a web-browser whereas on Windows you have to buy one because it doesn't come with a web-browser. Then he'll mention that Macs let you browse files on your hard-drives but on Windows you can't because Explorer doesn't exist.

neufuse said,
um that is just a BS article... geek squad visit? give me a break.. if they cant set up a PC they are going to have problems with a Mac also they have all the same ports... maybe we should look at how much Apple stock Goldman has? or how much Apple gives him for free?

I know for a fact that most, if not all their hosts on CNBC own stock in Apple. There are certain stocks their tv hosts like to pump ALL the time (and Apple is one of them) and trash the competition to those stocks. It should be illegal if it isn't already.

This doesn't even count the fact that CNBC is wrong on just about everything. Especially stocks. Its why the comedian, Stewart made so much fun of them not long ago.

I'm a Mac user, and this just frustrates the hell out of me. If people think Apple are the ones that lie, then damn... what does that make Goldman?

Sam Symons said,
I'm a Mac user, and this just frustrates the hell out of me. If people think Apple are the ones that lie, then damn... what does that make Goldman?

An Apple whore?

Goldman is as ignorant as Leo Laporte is. Both know nothing about computers or how they work; all they do is whine and complain about Windows. How can one claim that all Windows are virus prone when that last I heard most of the Conficker worm were of unpatched installs isolated to the China, Brazil and Russia regions. Stop being a douche Goldman and know the facts before you spread FUD!

I look forward to Windows 7 so I will be able to play .mov files without the piece of crap Quicktime. By the way I own a unibody MBP and I wish I could uninstall the crapware iLife and Quicktime and not to mention POS iTunes but I can't because it would render my Mac useless.

haefft said,
Goldman is as ignorant as Leo Laporte is. Both know nothing about computers or how they work; all they do is whine and complain about Windows. How can one claim that all Windows are virus prone when that last I heard most of the Conficker worm were of unpatched installs isolated to the China, Brazil and Russia regions. Stop being a douche Goldman and know the facts before you spread FUD!

I look forward to Windows 7 so I will be able to play .mov files without the piece of crap Quicktime. By the way I own a unibody MBP and I wish I could uninstall the crapware iLife and Quicktime and not to mention POS iTunes but I can't because it would render my Mac useless.


Dude I've actually met Leo and his former co-host Amber when they were doing Call for Help in Toronto and talked tech with Leo at length. (It was the end of the night's festivities and there were only a few of us left)

Leo is ANYTHING but ignorant. It's rare indeed I can find anyone who's been at the computer game since 1981 like myself and who's shared a lot of those early experiences. Leo knows his stuff inside and out.

krasch said,

Dude I've actually met Leo and his former co-host Amber when they were doing Call for Help in Toronto and talked tech with Leo at length. (It was the end of the night's festivities and there were only a few of us left)

Leo is ANYTHING but ignorant. It's rare indeed I can find anyone who's been at the computer game since 1981 like myself and who's shared a lot of those early experiences. Leo knows his stuff inside and out.


... I just don't know what to say, you left me flabbergasted

krasch said,
Dude I've actually met Leo and his former co-host Amber when they were doing Call for Help in Toronto and talked tech with Leo at length. (It was the end of the night's festivities and there were only a few of us left)

Leo is ANYTHING but ignorant. It's rare indeed I can find anyone who's been at the computer game since 1981 like myself and who's shared a lot of those early experiences. Leo knows his stuff inside and out.

I've personally never been able to sit through a single episode of his show without being forced to change it because he says something so absolutely wrong that any further viewing would result in remote control tossing.

Maybe it comes down to bad first impressions. The first time I watched his show he was answering some guys question about why webcams have poor resolution/framerate. He told the guy one of the reasons was the bandwidth limitations of USB 2.

He is also a thief
Update: No wonder the figures Goldman tosses out look so familiar. Reader Rob points out they're pulled straight out of this piece by Arik Hesseldahl in BusinessWeek. Did I just miss the credit to BusinessWeek or Hesseldahl?

haefft said,
I look forward to Windows 7 so I will be able to play .mov files without the piece of crap Quicktime. By the way I own a unibody MBP and I wish I could uninstall the crapware iLife and Quicktime and not to mention POS iTunes but I can't because it would render my Mac useless.


Until then, grab a copy of VLC Player to play quicktime files!