Comcast squares off against supporters of "Net Neutrality"

Under fire from consumer groups and law professors who have issued formal complaints to the Federal Communications Commission, Comcast has told the FCC that hampering some file-sharing by its subscribers was a justifiable way to keep Web traffic flowing for everyone.

The groups say Comcast (the second-largest ISP in the U.S.) has breached the principle, known as "'Net Neutrality," of treating all Internet traffic equally. Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood.

Comcast also said it was justified in using "reset" packets to break off communications between two computers. Comcast sometimes inserts these packets in the data stream to kill a file-sharing session. The move "fools" each computer into believing the other computer wants to end the connection. The return addresses of Comcast's packets indicate they're from one of the file-sharing computers when they are in fact from Comcast.

They also say the company was hampering movie downloading services because they might compete with Comcast's cable TV business.

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If a line can only support 1gbps, and that line services 1,000 homes, than the service should be limited to 1mbps/home. It can't get much simpler than that. Comcast needs to get a clue.

as an outsourced comcast agent
this makes me sick
they are constantly raising rates, and addign stupid service fees for everything you do
in some markets, just to make a service change to an account, theres sometimes a 5 dollar fee!
for example, adding or removing FREE voice mail, 5 dollars just to do that
takes us 30 seconds to do it and most agents just credit it back..but comcast is trying to extort customers every chance they get

(Neoauld said @ #17)
as an outsourced comcast agent
this makes me sick
they are constantly raising rates, and addign stupid service fees for everything you do
in some markets, just to make a service change to an account, theres sometimes a 5 dollar fee!
for example, adding or removing FREE voice mail, 5 dollars just to do that
takes us 30 seconds to do it and most agents just credit it back..but comcast is trying to extort customers every chance they get

Raising rates? In the 6 years I have had Comcast they have only raised top out speeds of the service. Yes, VIDEO has increased each year - as does dish, however, the standard price for high speed internet has remained the same.

I see that there are quite a few folks that hate Comcast, and the prices for the products. Stop bitching about it and go with DSL or dial-up, I'm sure you'll be so much happier.

As far as being 'the outsourced agent'; no worries - your time is numbered as Comcast is bringing all care inhouse. You then won't have to be made sick anymore for doing your job. (Also - get your numbers right, for a no-truck COS its $1.99. Considering that your outsourcing company charges $7 for each call, a $1.99 fee to the customer is a bargain.)

(masscableguy said @ #17.2)
Raising rates? In the 6 years I have had Comcast they have only raised top out speeds of the service. Yes, VIDEO has increased each year - as does dish, however, the standard price for high speed internet has remained the same.

I see that there are quite a few folks that hate Comcast, and the prices for the products. Stop bitching about it and go with DSL or dial-up, I'm sure you'll be so much happier.

As far as being 'the outsourced agent'; no worries - your time is numbered as Comcast is bringing all care inhouse. You then won't have to be made sick anymore for doing your job. (Also - get your numbers right, for a no-truck COS its $1.99. Considering that your outsourcing company charges $7 for each call, a $1.99 fee to the customer is a bargain.)


Oh look a faithful comcast employee or stock holder. How can you defend a broadband company that trys to kick the people that actually utilize braodband the way it was meant to be for example not email and internet browsing witch can be done easily with dialup witch is free now. They are basically admitting that they are preying on the weak minded twits that actually think that they need broadband for such things talk about overkill I can wait the extra 5 seconds if it means I don't have to spend a cent. Comcast is replacing AOL on the top of my company's that need to die list.

The truth is that they're tired of dealing with lawyers and subpoenas. File sharing is costing them a ton in legal bills.

I have Roadrunner, who actually ADVERTISES faster file sharing with their 10MB service.

(Unwonted said @ #16)
The truth is that they're tired of dealing with lawyers and subpoenas. File sharing is costing them a ton in legal bills.

I have Roadrunner, who actually ADVERTISES faster file sharing with their 10MB service.

Yeah but they also kick off the people that download large legal stuff! the month I got kicked off I downloaded the following...

10 XBOX 360 Demos (all about 1 GB each)
about 40GB of HTTP traffic (this is an entire family with 4 people using the net almost constantly and a dad who streams music from websites almost all day....)
Downloaded the purchased Creative Suite CS3 from adobe's site....
was doing Vista / w2k8 beta downloads... about what 8GB there that month for 32 and 64bit of each...
almost 2 GB in windows updates that month (this is across 4 computers that were reinstalled)

in the end we go about 150GB downloaded and ring ring comcast abuse line calling... we went over what the top 10th of a percent of average users use... well no crap the average user barely even uses the internet!... but did they want to hear it? no... they automatically classified us as criminals and said P2P has to stop I told them we dont use P2P they said only P2P users have that kinda bandwidth usage... I called the guy and idiot and he terminated our account right there... it was funny in the end to me thinking wow they are gona kill off their customers really fast....

I would think this might step on some microsoft toes? with xbox live I can download a 8 gig movie. I hope they don't reset my connection because they think were "file sharing". But I guess they would probably have the xbox live servers on the "allowed to send big files" list.

Pretty crappy if you ask me

(cha0s said @ #15)
I would think this might step on some microsoft toes? with xbox live I can download a 8 gig movie. I hope they don't reset my connection because they think were "file sharing". But I guess they would probably have the xbox live servers on the "allowed to send big files" list.

Pretty crappy if you ask me

But dont you dare tell a comcast person that I've said that to them before and all I get back is "why would you want to do that? we have VOD!" then say game demos they say "you can rent games!" its like they are saying the internet is for http traffic only

Update:
(okay, it is no surprise that they would name BitTorrent as their "prime culprit" but I thought it was worth mentioning)

...
In comments filed with the FCC on Tuesday night, Comcast responded by telling regulators that it uses reasonable measures to manage traffic moving over its network, as some of its customers overwhelm the network by using file-sharing applications like BitTorrent.

In its written comments, Comcast gave its most detailed explanation of how it manages Internet traffic, naming BitTorrent as prime culprit, but again denied it blocks content, applications or discriminates among providers.
...
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyN...lBrandChannel=0

hey. lets keep this fair. They are NOT policing the net. They are not blocking P2P services. They are using QoS (quality of service) to scale down the speed of P2P traffic. I do this on my own home network. My brother can kill my router very easily once he gets his limewire and torrents up and I'm sure the same can happen to the CMTS.


So to keep this clear. Comcast sells consumer internet mostly for web browsing and email. If you wish to epically destroy their download and upload maybe you should sign up for their business services which have far greater flexibility.

what are they using to determine that you're even downloading anything "pirated"? It almost sounds like there just after big traffic, which couldn't also be movies from iTunes, or Linux ISO's, etc.? Sounds like this is pulling some seriously sinister crap to me.

thats a BS excuse. If they wanted to argue that then they wouldn't have denying this practice for months on end when everyone was complaining. It would be one thing if they advertised that but they didn't and denied it. Even though it appears they changed their terms of service now to show that they are doing this, hopefully they are hit with a severe fine/penalty

For comcast, Internet MUST BE :

No p2p

and, no video online, radio online, to send or receive big files (legal or not), not gaming online (cause eat a lot of bandwidth), videos on messenger must be strictly forbidden..

This is ridiculous. The desire for more content (and hence bandwidth) is only going to increase in the future, anyone can see that. What game are Comcast playing?

They're delaying the inevitable. If they don't invest in infrastructure to support the bandwidth to deliver the content that people WILL want, then they're going to end up in trouble.

I'm a Comcast customer and I have to say that I am not impressed. Adelphia's speed was higher and their available stations were better, too. Too bad they went bankrupt from poor ownership. I'll be switching to satellite when I can and be hoping Comcast isn't the only high-speed internet available when I move.

Comcast says it must curb some file-sharing traffic because some subscribers would otherwise hog the cables with their uploads and slow traffic in their neighborhood.

Then with the ridiculous overpricing of cable internet services, they better start laying down that fiber optic cable to consumers houses then.

(blackice912 said @ #3.1)
I'm pretty positive that upgrading to DOCSIS 3 would be cheaper and quicker than replacing all that copper with fiber.

yea keep blaming the customers for the lack of upgrades on their part ;). Most people are using broadband now they need to get better!

(ozzieXP said @ #3.2)

yea keep blaming the customers for the lack of upgrades on their part ;). Most people are using broadband now they need to get better!

Well it's not like they can just push out DOCSIS 3 and be done with it. There isn't even an ample amount of certified equipment out there to support such an action.

So they are pushing for it (and possibly even testing with silver or bronze certified equipment), but it's a waiting game to see what manufacturer can get the equipment out that meets their standards.

(blackice912 said @ #3.1)
I'm pretty positive that upgrading to DOCSIS 3 would be cheaper and quicker than replacing all that copper with fiber.

Yep, DOCSIS 3 internet. 100mbps download, 16kbps upload for a whopping low price of 109.99 a month. I am sure the U.S cable companies have soaked the consumers plenty enough with that copper for the last 30+ years..

(blackice912 said @ #3.1)
I'm pretty positive that upgrading to DOCSIS 3 would be cheaper and quicker than replacing all that copper with fiber.

There isn't much copper to replace! Comcast has fiber to the node then copper to the premisis... so basicallu 90% of comcast's network is fiber... its just the last stretch form the node that is copper... it would cost comcast WAY less then verizon to go all fiber... and I mean massively less

(Optix Illusion said @ #3.4)

Yep, DOCSIS 3 internet. 100mbps download, 16kbps upload for a whopping low price of 109.99 a month. I am sure the U.S cable companies have soaked the consumers plenty enough with that copper for the last 30+ years..

You might want to look into how CMTS and HFC works... because it is not copper... it is.. drum roll please... FIBER! Only from the node to your house is copper... so at most 1 whole mile is copper... whoo hoo... comcast / adelphia / TW all them in the past 10 years spent billions to put fiber out there... in my town 95% of the network is fiber... and this is not a big town! DOCSIS3 might want to look at the specs on it while your at it... no one will ver get 100Mbit down... 4 channel docsis is 171.52Mbit downstream, 122.88Mbit upstream... 8 channel is twice as much... but that is per node... fiber goes to the node... so that is 171Mbit across maybe 100 houses... they would NEVER sell 100Mbit connections to a house... maybe 20, 30Mbit but never higher then that... and comcast could easily put fiber to the house with no problems... Motorola has a hybrid node now that lets you send out both to the house! I hate comcast, but saying they are milking copper is pure BS...

(neufuse said @ #3.6)

You might want to look into how CMTS and HFC works... because it is not copper... it is.. drum roll please... FIBER! Only from the node to your house is copper... so at most 1 whole mile is copper... whoo hoo... comcast / adelphia / TW all them in the past 10 years spent billions to put fiber out there... in my town 95% of the network is fiber... and this is not a big town! DOCSIS3 might want to look at the specs on it while your at it... no one will ver get 100Mbit down... 4 channel docsis is 171.52Mbit downstream, 122.88Mbit upstream... 8 channel is twice as much... but that is per node... fiber goes to the node... so that is 171Mbit across maybe 100 houses... they would NEVER sell 100Mbit connections to a house... maybe 20, 30Mbit but never higher then that... and comcast could easily put fiber to the house with no problems... Motorola has a hybrid node now that lets you send out both to the house! I hate comcast, but saying they are milking copper is pure BS...

Translation to my statement: With as much money they have soaked from the consumer using copper, they should be able to afford to lay FIBER cable! I never once said they would implement DOCSIS 3 internet on copper wire.

(neufuse said @ #3.5)
There isn't much copper to replace!

The local loop contains A LOT of copper to replace! That's a really expensive undertaking, and there's not a profitable reason for the phone companies to do it yet. You might get fiber-to-the-curb, but that last stretch to the house isn't likely to be replaced for a long time- either until fiber becomes dramatically more economical than copper to maintain and install (we're getting close), or the phone companies get something out of it. That means they'll need to start offering high def movies or get into the cable television business, which is not something they'll be able to do without opposition, given their current monopolies.

(Skwerl said @ #3.8)

The local loop contains A LOT of copper to replace! That's a really expensive undertaking, and there's not a profitable reason for the phone companies to do it yet. You might get fiber-to-the-curb, but that last stretch to the house isn't likely to be replaced for a long time- either until fiber becomes dramatically more economical than copper to maintain and install (we're getting close), or the phone companies get something out of it. That means they'll need to start offering high def movies or get into the cable television business, which is not something they'll be able to do without opposition, given their current monopolies.

Yes local loops have a lot of copper, but comcast is a cable company not a phone company... they use a different technology... Comcast uses fiberoptic lines to the node... and there is one node per negiborhood... it is DRASTICALLY and I mean DRASTICALLY less expensive for comcast to go pure fiber then a phone company that uses local loops... no idea why you are talking about phone companies... when this article is about comcast which is a tv cable company...

(Optix Illusion said @ #3.7)

Translation to my statement: With as much money they have soaked from the consumer using copper, they should be able to afford to lay FIBER cable! I never once said they would implement DOCSIS 3 internet on copper wire. :rolleyes:

I never once said that either!... I am just saying that comcast DOES use fiberoptic... and they use it to the node... Coax at 1GHz can support DOCSIS 3.0 and tons of HD channels with no problems at all... and with the hybrid motorola HFC nodes they can even run fiber to the house if they wanted to..

isn't that a false argument? they're basically saying, hey, if a few people actually use everything we're selling them, it kills our business model! if they're network can't support their advertised speeds, maybe they shouldn't advertise them?

No, because all the advertised services say "up to X Mbps". They never suggest you'll hit the peak, just that you technically can based on the boot file they send your modem.

Many users, however, go up and beyond the "peak". Until I upgraded recently, my service was capped at 6 Mbps, but boosting up to 20 Mbps at points.