Cortana digital assistant reportedly launching with Windows Phone 8.1... in the U.S.

In the last week or so, details have emerged describing 'Cortana', Microsoft's upcoming digital assistant that aims to offer the kind of voice interaction and interrogation features found in Apple's Siri, with the intelligent context-aware capabilities of Google Now. It's believed that Microsoft eventually intends to integrate the service into all of its major products, including the Windows OS family and the new Xbox One. 

Twitter leaker @qxerro - a new addition to the scene, but one who's already shared a good deal of info on Windows Phone - has revealed a few details regarding the rollout of Cortana. While the service is currently being tested on handsets with General Distribution Release 3 (GDR3), the next update for Windows Phone 8 which will arrive before the end of the year, don't expect Cortana to be part of it. 

Instead, it's believed that the digital assistant will launch as an integrated component of Windows Phone 8.1 in early 2014, although some users will have to wait longer than others, as @qxerro claims that Cortana will only be available for customers in the United States when WP8.1 rolls out.

International support for the service, covering at least 44 languages, is expected to come to Windows Phone 8.1 eventually, but those outside of the U.S. will have to wait until late 2014 for it to arrive. Currently, no details are available regarding plans to launch the service on Windows 8/RT or the Xbox One.

The news will undoubtedly disappoint many, with excitement already building among Windows Phone users, with thousands signing a petition requesting that Microsoft keep the Cortana development codename - a reference to Master Chief's AI companion in the Halo game series - when it launches. 

Source: @qxerro | Image via Microsoft

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I say boh. I have a Lumia 920.

I was actually waiting until 8.1 before I make the decision whether or not to jump to Apple. But, as I'm in Canada, if I have to wait until late 2014 for Cortana to be available then I might as well go Apple and call it a day.

The few times I used Siri, it told me it pointed me to a restaurant that was 30 miles away. Some may use Siri, but I hardly ever use it (maybe 3-4 times in 2 years) and I do not know anyone who does.

hagjohn said,
The few times I used Siri, it told me it pointed me to a restaurant that was 30 miles away. Some may use Siri, but I hardly ever use it (maybe 3-4 times in 2 years) and I do not know anyone who does.

Did you say "near me"?

Seriously? Siri would think, by default, I wanted directions to a chinese restaurant 30 miles away? But to answer your question, I think I said "nearest".

I should add that I'm expecting Siri to evolve continuously. If Cortana is going to be this revolutionary thing that MS wants then Apple will have an answer soon enough.

Microsoft still playing catch up... By the time this hits the few thousand WP users, Android and iOS would have moved on to the next hot thing, and Microsoft will still be burning billions playing catch up...

If MS is smart, they will create an animation of her on the screen when she is talking. Something that makes her feel closer to you, and create attachment.

When the public see the Microsoft ad for this, they'll won't be thinking "wow, that's amazing - I want", but instead "oh, I saw iPhone and Samsung ads featuring that technology ages ago".

It wouldn't be right for Microsoft to call it a "revolutionary NEW feature", because by facts, it's not.

Good this is coming to WP. Funny tho. If this was about any other company and was a feature WP already had... People would complain about copying MS.

Well if "Cortana" is more than a silly codename, and they try to capitalize on the success of Halo, then I guess you Windows Phone users will be able to put on your Master Chef masks and pretend you're in a video game.

Will be interesting to see how integrated they can get it, I expect it to be US only but they really should push all these things out to as many markets as they can, it's getting pretty silly at this point.

Gungel said,
It says it right in the article that they will launch it in 44 languages by end of 2014.

I saw that, I just mean at the start they're US only, and quite a few things still are US only, specially with Bing. It's silly at this point how everything they release is US only from day 1, that's all. Still waiting for them to expand Xbox Music to more markets but they've never even talked about doing that in forever.

I'm not sure where in that article it says that Merlin has any future. In fact, the first few lines tell you that it is deprecated and might not be available in future versions of Windows. Or were you trying to be sarcastic?

I can see Glance integrated with this (always listening) say: OK Cortana, Bing the news highlights for today. Or even OK Cortana, Google...
Or OK Cortana, Tellme... or just ok set a timer for...

I would love to ability to use set a trigger word instead of just Cortana. And maybe get a stand up phone docking station with glance having the ability to tell time so that it acts like a alarm and clock, then when I wake up all I have to say is "Cortana, what's the weather like."

Taking the glance even further we should be able to use gestures to open certain apps right away like camera or Skype lets say with a 3 finger swipe. The ability to send an alarm to a phone and wake them by saying Cortana wake "Jeff" would be awesome!

I think they should have gone with Clippy-voice. It's all kind of a useless novelty anyway. The only voice thing I do like is the voice song selection on the Sync system. There's thousands of songs on my USB stick, and I can usually just tell the car which one I want to hear. It doesn't do well with classical music and non-English names though.

Spicoli said,
I think they should have gone with Clippy-voice. It's all kind of a useless novelty anyway. The only voice thing I do like is the voice song selection on the Sync system. There's thousands of songs on my USB stick, and I can usually just tell the car which one I want to hear. It doesn't do well with classical music and non-English names though.

Or spelled names like ACDC or TLC..

I don't use Siri at all and doubt I'll need a digital assistant any time soon, but this will be quite marketable.

"International support for the service, covering at least 44 languages, is expected to come to Windows Phone 8.1 eventually, but those outside of the U.S. will have to wait until late 2014 for it to arrive."

This is just like the 8.1 preview debacle, those of us speaking a "regional variant" of US English had to wait. English is English no matter what country you live in!!

neo158 said,

This is just like the 8.1 preview debacle, those of us speaking a "regional variant" of US English had to wait. English is English no matter what country you live in!!

Not true, every kind of English is spoken in a different way, they have to work on dialects, or you get wrong answers.

Studio384 said,
Not true, every kind of English is spoken in a different way, they have to work on dialects, or you get wrong answers.

I'm sorry, but British English is not a "dialect" of English. It IS English.

TCLN Ryster said,

I'm sorry, but British English is not a "dialect" of English. It IS English.

Which variation of British English do you consider to be "true" English? Even in the UK there are varying dialects, just like within the US. The words may be the same but "how" you say them can be completely different.

pack34 said,

Which variation of British English do you consider to be "true" English? Even in the UK there are varying dialects, just like within the US. The words may be the same but "how" you say them can be completely different.

The point I was making (not well it seems) was that the modern-day English language originated in England. The clue's in the name. To call British English a "regional variation" or "dialect" of English, frankly I find insulting. But hey, this is the internet, who cares

TCLN Ryster said,

The point I was making (not well it seems) was that the modern-day English language originated in England. The clue's in the name. To call British English a "regional variation" or "dialect" of English, frankly I find insulting. But hey, this is the internet, who cares

If you find the truth insulting then that's on you.

Again, what's "true" English? East London? Southeast? Southwest? Midlands? Northern? Welsh? Scottish?

To go deeper into the rabbit hole, which century? Unfortunately, audio recording devices are rather new so we have no way of knowing exactly how language and dialects evolved over time. However, by looking at older literature we can see that how we speak has changed over the centuries.

Everyone speaks a dialect of their chosen, or inherited, language. Stop being so pretentious.

pack34 said,

If you find the truth insulting then that's on you.

Again, what's "true" English? East London? Southeast? Southwest? Midlands? Northern? Welsh? Scottish?

To go deeper into the rabbit hole, which century? Unfortunately, audio recording devices are rather new so we have no way of knowing exactly how language and dialects evolved over time. However, by looking at older literature we can see that how we speak has changed over the centuries.

Everyone speaks a dialect of their chosen, or inherited, language. Stop being so pretentious.

Do they have Ebonic British English too?

neo158 said,

This is just like the 8.1 preview debacle, those of us speaking a "regional variant" of US English had to wait. English is English no matter what country you live in!!

For the avoidance of doubt, there is no such thing as 'American English'. There is the English language and there are mistakes.

Vinylchan said,
For the avoidance of doubt, there is no such thing as 'American English'. There is the English language and there are mistakes.

That was the point I was trying to make, if anything US English is a "regional variation" of British English.

What I don't understand is that if Google can release Google Now in ALL English speaking countries then why can't Microsoft with Cortana?

neo158 said,

That was the point I was trying to make, if anything US English is a "regional variation" of British English.

What I don't understand is that if Google can release Google Now in ALL English speaking countries then why can't Microsoft with Cortana?

Because maybe it's a really advanced voice that speaks American style English. They'll probably have another character for the British.

Tangmeister said,
So are you suggesting that Microsoft should make everybody else wait around until every dialect of English is supported?

Yes, if Google can do that then why can't Microsoft?

neo158, I don't know about Google but I don't see what kind of benefit would come from that. It would be like saying that everybody has to have their burgers ready at McDonald's before anybody can start eating.

Tangmeister said,
neo158, I don't know about Google but I don't see what kind of benefit would come from that. It would be like saying that everybody has to have their burgers ready at McDonald's before anybody can start eating.

The main benefit is that they would have more people using it to iron out problems, instead of just the 2 Windows Phone owners in the US!!

Siri just isn't very helpful. It's a good start, but has a long way to go before I would consider it to be something I'd use regularly. Whether MS does a better job remains to be seen.

dead.cell said,
I like how the idea of Siri is a "totally stupid idea" until it's a video game character you like.

Ha, well to be fair we have built a strong relationship with Cortana over the past 10 years.. Of course we want it to come to life haha! Although I really doubt it will have her voice, probably same old TellMe voice with an awesome name.

This is much more advanced than Siri. This is deeply integrated into the OS and does a tons more. Siri doesn't compare at all tbh.

Supposedly you mean. It may very well be half as good as Siri, half as good as Google Now in terms of contextual search, which is something I'm afraid of. Not to mention, the huge barrier that is voice recognition to top it all. I know Microsoft has been working with this sort of stuff for a while, including but not limited to the Kinect, but faith in them based on that isn't much to go on.

I used to have faith in Google being able to get us over the hurdles of voice recognition in the past, considering the large amount of data they have from Google Talk (they state these in the terms of use I believe) and it still isn't exactly the greatest either.

I actually use siri a.... lot mainly for changing between songs and artist when driving.
I also use it for reminders and timers and mapping. I don't know why people compare Google Now and Siri they both different. Google now strength is contextual search with some speech capabilities added in

Siri is **** when it comes to voice recognition. MS TellMe and Google Voice are at par with other. MS has invested a lot in speech recognition except its been slow in pushing it to consumers

Hope they "revolutionize" this! They're a little behind in the big 2, so I hope they make this something that Android and iOS can be jealous of.

isummersmiles said,
Hope they "revolutionize" this! They're a little behind in the big 2, so I hope they make this something that Android and iOS can be jealous of.

Absolutely. No sense in not trying to do it better...

4K output? To what, a 4K TV that 4 people currently own? No, I meant useful features. Fingerprint reader maybe... I would expect to see a lot of manufacturers add something like this now that Apple has reintroduced it. Same goes for 64-bit. At least this time around, Apple is "leading" in its own way... just watch what Samsung/HTC/maybe even Nokia introduce over the next 12 months.

Enron said,
Hate to say it, but after playing around with iOS 7, they do have some catching up to do.

IMO Android was ahead of the pack features and customization/ options wise iOS7 just evened out the gap. WP Isn't even close to either of those two.

onionjuice said,

IMO Android was ahead of the pack features and customization/ options wise iOS7 just evened out the gap. WP Isn't even close to either of those two.

iOS 7 is like the best of WP, Android, and iOS 6 rolled up into one. It's still iOS, but the new features make a big difference. Yes, Android had pretty much all of this already, but it runs a LOT smoother on iOS than it does on my Android. Windows Phone needs to add similar features fast if they're going to keep growing.

greenwizard88 said,
By the time the 8.1 update hits, WP should finally be feature-comparable to Android and iOS. I'm excited.

I wonder if GDR3 will bring some needed features like the ability to pin individual Settings to Start or more color choices and more BG choices like Windows RT with multiple colors. Or separate volume controls with left right balance or the ability to press and hold over the top bar (WiFi/time) to access Settings.

Really what Microsoft needs to be doing is adding distinctive features, not simply keeping up with Android and iOS. It's not that WP is a bad platform, it's just that it doesn't do enough to make you want it over the competition.

Just look at what Android has brought us over the years: NFC, fingerprint scanners, unlock patterns, facial recognition, a task manager, app-to-SD functionality, browser synchronisation, 1080p displays / quad-core CPUs, etc. Apple on the otherhand has focused on the user experience, which has led to an interface that is excellent for non-technical types and is incredibly fluid. Windows Phone is solid and the tile-based interface is very distinctive but the user experience isn't strong enough to compete with Apple and the technological side isn't enough to compete with Android.

The Nokia 1520 could be the first WP device to really compete at level terms, especially if the camera is as strong as previous outings. It's a device I'm strongly considering but I still consider WP to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

theyarecomingforyou said,
Really what Microsoft needs to be doing is adding distinctive features, not simply keeping up with Android and iOS. It's not that WP is a bad platform, it's just that it doesn't do enough to make you want it over the competition.

Just look at what Android has brought us over the years: NFC, fingerprint scanners, unlock patterns, facial recognition, a task manager, app-to-SD functionality, browser synchronisation, 1080p displays / quad-core CPUs, etc. Apple on the otherhand has focused on the user experience, which has led to an interface that is excellent for non-technical types and is incredibly fluid. Windows Phone is solid and the tile-based interface is very distinctive but the user experience isn't strong enough to compete with Apple and the technological side isn't enough to compete with Android.

The Nokia 1520 could be the first WP device to really compete at level terms, especially if the camera is as strong as previous outings. It's a device I'm strongly considering but I still consider WP to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

Agreed. WP got off to a good start with its "people first" integration, which for a while was distinct, but now it seems like the only real difference is the tile interface. They need to put something new and exciting into WP8.1. I hope Nokia can push through some major updates to the OS now since they're going to be part of MS.

Enron said,

iOS 7 is like the best of WP, Android, and iOS 6 rolled up into one. It's still iOS, but the new features make a big difference. Yes, Android had pretty much all of this already, but it runs a LOT smoother on iOS than it does on my Android. Windows Phone needs to add similar features fast if they're going to keep growing.

I upgraded my wife's iPhone to ios 7 and she hates it. So not everybody likes ios

People who think the only purpose of 64-bit computing is to allow for over 4GB of memory to be addressed have no business posting on a tech-centric website.

theyarecomingforyou said,
Really what Microsoft needs to be doing is adding distinctive features, not simply keeping up with Android and iOS. It's not that WP is a bad platform, it's just that it doesn't do enough to make you want it over the competition.

Just look at what Android has brought us over the years: NFC, fingerprint scanners, unlock patterns, facial recognition, a task manager, app-to-SD functionality, browser synchronisation, 1080p displays / quad-core CPUs, etc. Apple on the otherhand has focused on the user experience, which has led to an interface that is excellent for non-technical types and is incredibly fluid. Windows Phone is solid and the tile-based interface is very distinctive but the user experience isn't strong enough to compete with Apple and the technological side isn't enough to compete with Android.

The Nokia 1520 could be the first WP device to really compete at level terms, especially if the camera is as strong as previous outings. It's a device I'm strongly considering but I still consider WP to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

Sure they need distinct features but I think they need to be able to do basic things that iOS and Android have more urgently. Like a notification center.

I'll say to move ahead, and add DNA scanner ...

theyarecomingforyou said,
So it's adding support for 4K output and fingerprint scanners?

Lord Method Man said,
People who think the only purpose of 64-bit computing is to allow for over 4GB of memory to be addressed have no business posting on a tech-centric website.
So enlighten us? What advantage will a 64bit processor have over 32 for a mobile phone? How does it improve on anything? You seem to know, so instead of posting the obvious ignorant BS response be the smart*ss you claim to be and tell us.. Oh wait..

In reality having a 64 bit wide SoC has no impact on the phones capabilities or performance. Not in any way. It doe snot bring 'desktop performance' to the phone like Apple wants you to think from their suggestive slides.. It's a dud and a non feature with no other purpose but marketing. Same with the M7 which is a relabelled off the shelf chip from a Dutch company.

Enron said,

iOS 7 is like the best of WP, Android, and iOS 6 rolled up into one. It's still iOS, but the new features make a big difference. Yes, Android had pretty much all of this already, but it runs a LOT smoother on iOS than it does on my Android. Windows Phone needs to add similar features fast if they're going to keep growing.


Even in terms of look and feel; When WP first launched, I thought it looked way better than iOS. Now with iOS 7, it blows WP away imo.

Enron said,
Hate to say it, but after playing around with iOS 7, they do have some catching up to do.

I don't see any noticeable changes in ios7 that would improve the phone on a comparative level, It's just a UI.
IPhones don't even NFC yet, it's ridiculous

majortom1981 said,

I upgraded my wife's iPhone to ios 7 and she hates it. So not everybody likes ios

The men in my office laughed when I gave them their phones, after I upgraded them. One was sure I was pulling a prank on him. It was hilarious to see his expression when he found out that no prank was being pulled. After using iOS 7 Gold Master, I made the decision to buy a Nokia 1020.

My co-worker hates it too; however, he got upset when I call it 'iPony' OS ...

hagjohn said,

The men in my office laughed when I gave them their phones, after I upgraded them. One was sure I was pulling a prank on him. It was hilarious to see his expression when he found out that no prank was being pulled. After using iOS 7 Gold Master, I made the decision to buy a Nokia 1020.

theyarecomingforyou said,
Really what Microsoft needs to be doing is adding distinctive features, not simply keeping up with Android and iOS. It's not that WP is a bad platform, it's just that it doesn't do enough to make you want it over the competition.

Just look at what Android has brought us over the years: NFC, fingerprint scanners, unlock patterns, facial recognition, a task manager, app-to-SD functionality, browser synchronisation, 1080p displays / quad-core CPUs, etc. Apple on the otherhand has focused on the user experience, which has led to an interface that is excellent for non-technical types and is incredibly fluid. Windows Phone is solid and the tile-based interface is very distinctive but the user experience isn't strong enough to compete with Apple and the technological side isn't enough to compete with Android.

The Nokia 1520 could be the first WP device to really compete at level terms, especially if the camera is as strong as previous outings. It's a device I'm strongly considering but I still consider WP to be more of a limitation than an advantage.

To make it more specific, Microsoft needs to introduce a feature or features that users will actually use and utilized. Have any of you out there really used your NFC? I know I have with my Windows Phone, and I've only used it twice to transfer files.

Finger print reader is something from the past that Apple reintroduced. I remember my Compaq Pocket PC having this feature, but let see if people will use this one.

That gesture control that Android introduced, do you actually see anyone using it as well? I see people owning devices with that has that feature, but they're not using it.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, because of its low adaptation rate in the U.S., if they put out a new feature, others will implement it on their phones as well.

what the heck? enron, you have always been a IOS haters, Ios7 changed all that for you that fast?

Enron said,

iOS 7 is like the best of WP, Android, and iOS 6 rolled up into one. It's still iOS, but the new features make a big difference. Yes, Android had pretty much all of this already, but it runs a LOT smoother on iOS than it does on my Android. Windows Phone needs to add similar features fast if they're going to keep growing.

rippleman said,
what the heck? enron, you have always been a IOS haters, Ios7 changed all that for you that fast?

I'm not planning on buying a new iOS device any time soon, but it's a big step up from iOS 6. I still have an old iPhone sitting around to play with.

AWilliams87 said,

Even in terms of look and feel; When WP first launched, I thought it looked way better than iOS. Now with iOS 7, it blows WP away imo.

except that iOS7 is fugly.

paulheu said,
So enlighten us? What advantage will a 64bit processor have over 32 for a mobile phone? How does it improve on anything? You seem to know, so instead of posting the obvious ignorant BS response be the smart*ss you claim to be and tell us.. Oh wait..

In reality having a 64 bit wide SoC has no impact on the phones capabilities or performance. Not in any way. It doe snot bring 'desktop performance' to the phone like Apple wants you to think from their suggestive slides.. It's a dud and a non feature with no other purpose but marketing. Same with the M7 which is a relabelled off the shelf chip from a Dutch company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6..._computing#32-bit_vs_64-bit

A common misconception is that 64-bit architectures are no better than 32-bit architectures unless the computer has more than 4 GB of random access memory.[24] This is not entirely true:

instead of asking him to tell the difference why not google it your self and learn a thing or 2

CONFIRMED NEW GROUNDBREAKING FEATURES.
You can now ask Cortana:
"Hey Cortana, what's the weather like"

Microsoft AD: Only in Windows Phone can you get Cortana oh and don't forget the 41 Megapixel camera that everyday users like you need. We don't have all the apps that our competitors have nor do we have ANYTHING unique to offer but buy our OS anyways in hope that developers will create more.

We don't ever leave you in the blue like Android, but just ignore Windows Phone 7 we unified everything with Windows Phone 8.

P.S: Windows Phone 7 users who are locked on a 2 year contract, sorry but we won't improve Skype for you.

the problem with WP7 is that it was designed on WinCE, Also MS told every one that WP7 & wp8 were both being developed at the same time.

The hole thing with WP7 was to test and make sure the UI layer was both useable, and successful before adding it on top of the nt kernel

but I can see why they wouldn't want to waste time and resources into coding for WinCE when there moving ever thing to nt kernel


What MS should do is take ever WP7 device and upgrade people to at lest a 520 for free... A) they could reduce waste and recycle the parts, and b) at lest let ever one stay up to date on there current platform there developing for

WolfSilverLone said,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6..._computing#32-bit_vs_64-bit

A common misconception is that 64-bit architectures are no better than 32-bit architectures unless the computer has more than 4 GB of random access memory.[24] This is not entirely true:

instead of asking him to tell the difference why not google it your self and learn a thing or 2

The first three points still talked about memory and memory addressing which is irrelevant in the mobile space as of now.

So why are desktop consumer PCs still stuck on 64-bit if you're so hard-up about word length in CPU instructions? The longer the better, right, with registers being able to store more?

It's more hype than anything when the primary concern on phones now, as well as the reason to use ARM in the first place, is being as power-efficient as possible.

Lord Method Man said,
People who think the only purpose of 64-bit computing is to allow for over 4GB of memory to be addressed have no business posting on a tech-centric website.

Still waiting for your enlightenment. I really want to know how 64bit is helping the mobile space right now (where max mem is 2GB).

It might help in some loops while it ALWAYS requires more memory for everything because of 64bit address space. Now get off all tech-sites.

sounds like you know more then engineers... you should go take over apple engineering department and fire them all...

Crimson Rain said,

Still waiting for your enlightenment. I really want to know how 64bit is helping the mobile space right now (where max mem is 2GB).

It might help in some loops while it ALWAYS requires more memory for everything because of 64bit address space. Now get off all tech-sites.

onionjuice said,
CONFIRMED NEW GROUNDBREAKING FEATURES.
You can now ask Cortana:
"Hey Cortana, what's the weather like"

Microsoft AD: Only in Windows Phone can you get Cortana oh and don't forget the 41 Megapixel camera that everyday users like you need. We don't have all the apps that our competitors have nor do we have ANYTHING unique to offer but buy our OS anyways in hope that developers will create more.

We don't ever leave you in the blue like Android, but just ignore Windows Phone 7 we unified everything with Windows Phone 8.

P.S: Windows Phone 7 users who are locked on a 2 year contract, sorry but we won't improve Skype for you.

Except the point about WP7, I don't find the other points valid.. I find the UI a lot better than iOS or Android and it is UNIQUE. As for the 41Megapixel camera... I think the 1020 has a good price point for that Camera unlike the iPhones which are overpriced.. As for apps.. Its geting there.. One has to consider that the OS is a lot newer than the others..

rippleman said,
sounds like you know more then engineers... you should go take over apple engineering department and fire them all...


They did it for future (apple has always been early adopters) and marketing gimmick.
May be you should think before talking.

Kaedrin said,
Considering how easy it is to hack fingerprint biometrics, it's not really something anyone should use anywhere.

It's all relative, as fingerprint scanners are still more secure than traditional pincodes / patterns. Highlighting the weaknesses of security systems is certainly worthwhile but people shouldn't be given the impression that fingerprint scanning is somehow less secure than other methods.

theyarecomingforyou said,

It's all relative, as fingerprint scanners are still more secure than traditional pincodes / patterns. Highlighting the weaknesses of security systems is certainly worthwhile but people shouldn't be given the impression that fingerprint scanning is somehow less secure than other methods.


Fingerprint IS less secure than other methods (setting 123 as password or 3 tap of eyes for picture password do not count).

Crimson Rain said,
Fingerprint IS less secure than other methods (setting 123 as password or 3 tap of eyes for picture password do not count).

Nonsense. Bypassing fingerprint security requires finding the correct fingerprint (an often difficult task), taking a 2400DPI photo, cleaning up the image and inverting it, printing it using thick toner onto a transparent material, applying latex milk and moistening the resulting mould after it has dried. Bypassing somebody's pincode requires watching somebody enter it.

Don't forget that iPhones can be wiped remotely, so even if somebody was motivated enough to go to that effort there is a good chance the phone will have already been reported stolen and wiped by the owner. Nobody is claiming that fingerprint scanners will stop dedicated thieves but they're an improvement from the current system.

Crimson Rain said,

Still waiting for your enlightenment. I really want to know how 64bit is helping the mobile space right now (where max mem is 2GB).

It might help in some loops while it ALWAYS requires more memory for everything because of 64bit address space. Now get off all tech-sites.

so your saying some of the android phones would not benefit from a x64 arm chip

http://www.androidauthority.co...-memory-coming-2014-267402/

http://www.phonearena.com/news...come-by-end-of-year_id46198

and lets not forget about all the android tablets that do in fact have 4 gig of memory

if you Google you can find them. there few and far between but there out there

The issue with android right now it can only address a max of 4GIG of ram in its current state (due to android is only x86 right now

reason why iOS can get away with it already. Is the fact iOS is build of the current osx/darwin unix kernel that is x64_x86, Apple doesn't make a x86 only os any more since ages ago

btw I know were talking about arm/soc not actually x64_86 chips but in laymen terms you get the idea

Crimson Rain said,

Fingerprint IS less secure than other methods (setting 123 as password or 3 tap of eyes for picture password do not count).

Pin = 4 numbers only most people use pin or a pattern which is on a 4x4 grid and you can see people unlocking their phone clearly. Fingerprint is 10x more secure...

Unless of course you want to be that person and set a 20 character passcode for your phone.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Nonsense. Bypassing fingerprint security requires finding the correct fingerprint (an often difficult task), taking a 2400DPI photo, cleaning up the image and inverting it, printing it using thick toner onto a transparent material, applying latex milk and moistening the resulting mould after it has dried. Bypassing somebody's pincode requires watching somebody enter it.

Don't forget that iPhones can be wiped remotely, so even if somebody was motivated enough to go to that effort there is a good chance the phone will have already been reported stolen and wiped by the owner. Nobody is claiming that fingerprint scanners will stop dedicated thieves but they're an improvement from the current system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f..._embedded&v=HM8b8d8kSNQ

http://www.neowin.net/news/hac...o-defeat-iphone-5s-touch-id


Sorry. If I do not tell you my pin code, good luck finding that before phone locks up.
Also, pin codes need not to be 4 digit. WP8 supports huge length (40+) if needed.

WolfSilverLone said,

so your saying some of the android phones would not benefit from a x64 arm chip

http://www.androidauthority.co...-memory-coming-2014-267402/

http://www.phonearena.com/news...come-by-end-of-year_id46198

and lets not forget about all the android tablets that do in fact have 4 gig of memory

if you Google you can find them. there few and far between but there out there

The issue with android right now it can only address a max of 4GIG of ram in its current state (due to android is only x86 right now

reason why iOS can get away with it already. Is the fact iOS is build of the current osx/darwin unix kernel that is x64_x86, Apple doesn't make a x86 only os any more since ages ago

btw I know were talking about arm/soc not actually x64_86 chips but in laymen terms you get the idea


So where is this 4GB+ phone? is it here? no. What is the benefit right now? Almost nothing except marketing gimmick. Will there be significant benefit in future? yes.

Also, do not put words in my mouth.

Crimson Rain said,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f..._embedded&v=HM8b8d8kSNQ

http://www.neowin.net/news/hac...o-defeat-iphone-5s-touch-id


Sorry. If I do not tell you my pin code, good luck finding that before phone locks up.
Also, pin codes need not to be 4 digit. WP8 supports huge length (40+) if needed.

The talk is about iOS and in iOS pin = 4 digit code. You can easily look at what the person is entering and re type it or get a clue and guess what the pin is based on where they are tapping.

Yah hackers had to take a picture of your fingerprint, make a mold with synthetic material out of it, then unlock the phone. Which means you are an idiot and lost your phone because they can't unlock your phone on the spot with that method.

Or they can just stand behind or next to you when you are unlocking your phone and check what the pin is.

Yah and WP8 supports 40 digit pin okay.. you want to enter 40 digits every time you unlock the phone? Who are you? The president?


The lesson learned here is no method of locking your phone is secure if you keep it unattended or if you decide to give your fingerprints to some random stranger. Or if the mafia really wants to find out about whats on your phone they will track your fingerprints and steal your phone.

Oh, by the way most phones aren't even encrypted lol there's no point of putting a pass code if you're paranoid about your security that much.

Crimson Rain said,

So where is this 4GB+ phone? is it here? no. What is the benefit right now? Almost nothing except marketing gimmick. Will there be significant benefit in future? yes.

Also, do not put words in my mouth.

Yah there is no significance of this for current generation phones.... I think the S4 has 2 gigs of ram and I doubt it uses half of it because there are plenty of Android phones with the same specs but 1 gb of ram.

They made it play out as a marketing stunt but its like the consoles switching over to x86 it doesn't really make a difference for consumers.

onionjuice said,

Yah hackers had to take a picture of your fingerprint, make a mold with synthetic material out of it, then unlock the phone. Which means you are an idiot and lost your phone because they can't unlock your phone on the spot with that method.

When the Lumia 90210 comes out, I can take a picture of somebody from 10 miles away and get a detailed image of their fingerprint at the same time.

onionjuice said,

The talk is about iOS and in iOS pin = 4 digit code. You can easily look at what the person is entering and re type it or get a clue and guess what the pin is based on where they are tapping.

Yah hackers had to take a picture of your fingerprint, make a mold with synthetic material out of it, then unlock the phone. Which means you are an idiot and lost your phone because they can't unlock your phone on the spot with that method.

Or they can just stand behind or next to you when you are unlocking your phone and check what the pin is.

Yah and WP8 supports 40 digit pin okay.. you want to enter 40 digits every time you unlock the phone? Who are you? The president?


The lesson learned here is no method of locking your phone is secure if you keep it unattended or if you decide to give your fingerprints to some random stranger. Or if the mafia really wants to find out about whats on your phone they will track your fingerprints and steal your phone.

Oh, by the way most phones aren't even encrypted lol there's no point of putting a pass code if you're paranoid about your security that much.


You can not protect your finger print. You can protect your pin code; even the tiny 4 digit one.

The purpose of fingerprint in home button is not extra security. It is convenience.

Enron said,

When the Lumia 90210 comes out, I can take a picture of somebody from 10 miles away and get a detailed image of their fingerprint at the same time.

Epic troll

Crimson Rain said,
You can not protect your finger print. You can protect your pin code; even the tiny 4 digit one.

The purpose of fingerprint in home button is not extra security. It is convenience.

Obviously a fingerprint scanner isn't going to deter dedicated criminals but it will stop casual thieves and opportunists. I've had friends access my phone by simply guessing my pattern (it wasn't an obvious one) and I've accessed the phones of various friends to prank them by simply watching them type in their code. A fingerprint scanner prevents that.

The point is, bypassing the fingerprint scanner on the iPhone takes time, determination and skill and if the phone is missing for that long it will remotely wiped and reported stolen. For the vast majority of people it provides better security and is much more convenient. It astounds me that people can think a fingerprint scanner is less secure.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Obviously a fingerprint scanner isn't going to deter dedicated criminals but it will stop casual thieves and opportunists. I've had friends access my phone by simply guessing my pattern (it wasn't an obvious one) and I've accessed the phones of various friends to prank them by simply watching them type in their code. A fingerprint scanner prevents that.

The point is, bypassing the fingerprint scanner on the iPhone takes time, determination and skill and if the phone is missing for that long it will remotely wiped and reported stolen. For the vast majority of people it provides better security and is much more convenient. It astounds me that people can think a fingerprint scanner is less secure.

The problem is that it is not that hard. This guy used a wood glue to demonstrate it. Granted, you have to carry a wood glue with you, but would be thief might just carry it with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM8b8d8kSNQ

theyarecomingforyou said,

Obviously a fingerprint scanner isn't going to deter dedicated criminals but it will stop casual thieves and opportunists. I've had friends access my phone by simply guessing my pattern (it wasn't an obvious one) and I've accessed the phones of various friends to prank them by simply watching them type in their code. A fingerprint scanner prevents that.

The point is, bypassing the fingerprint scanner on the iPhone takes time, determination and skill and if the phone is missing for that long it will remotely wiped and reported stolen. For the vast majority of people it provides better security and is much more convenient. It astounds me that people can think a fingerprint scanner is less secure.

Exactly I've had the same done to me. One of my friends knew my pattern just by sitting next to me and watching me try it lol. That's why I think the fingerprint scanner is better.

RommelS said,
The problem is that it is not that hard. This guy used a wood glue to demonstrate it. Granted, you have to carry a wood glue with you, but would be thief might just carry it with them.

The wood glue is simply the material used to make the print; you still need access to the fingerprint, to take a high resolution photo of it, clean up the image and invert it, print it using thick toner, etc. This isn't something people can simply do on a whim, unlike watching you enter your passcode / pattern.

theyarecomingforyou said,

The wood glue is simply the material used to make the print; you still need access to the fingerprint, to take a high resolution photo of it, clean up the image and invert it, print it using thick toner, etc. This isn't something people can simply do on a whim, unlike watching you enter your passcode / pattern.

Ok TheyAre ...you are making my head shake here. LOL
The fingerprint is already on the device ...on the sensor. The wood glue is just to trick the sensor that the owner of the device it trying to access the device.

theyarecomingforyou said,

That's not what the video shows. The glue is a mould made earlier using the process I described. The photograph taken of the fingerprint was NOT taken from the phone. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.u...gerprint-hac_n_3974397.html

It's not a casual hack.

Fair enough, but did you realized that this isn't a casual hack anymore because if you look at the video, you can literally see the guy's finger print on the device. If someone would steal the device, they're halfway there.

greenwizard88 said,
By the time the 8.1 update hits, WP should finally be feature-comparable to Android and iOS. I'm excited.

It took me 5 minutes just to read every one of the above posts, seriously to the posters above, 64 bit on a phone is ridiculous, but there should be still support for it, same with 4k as for the fingerprint scanner, that is just something that is cool, but at the time being unnecessary.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Nobody is disputing that it's possible to bypass the fingerprint scanner - the point is that it requires a lot of expertise, equipment and access to the fingerprint. That means it offers better protection than pincodes / patterns. Therefore my point still stands: It astounds me that people can think a fingerprint scanner is less secure.


yes, it is less secure because no matter what you do (unless you wear gloves 24/7), you are leaving your fingerprint all over the world.

On the other hand, unless you are an idiot who uses 1234 or birth year as pin or lets other watch what you are typing, there is ~0.01% chance of someone figuring out your pin.

ians18 said,

It took me 5 minutes just to read every one of the above posts, seriously to the posters above, 64 bit on a phone is ridiculous, but there should be still support for it, same with 4k as for the fingerprint scanner, that is just something that is cool, but at the time being unnecessary.

Finally someone sane.

I would not call it unnecessary. It is a trade-off between security and convenience.

Crimson Rain said,
yes, it is less secure because no matter what you do (unless you wear gloves 24/7), you are leaving your fingerprint all over the world.

As I said, in the time required to perform such an attack the phone would have been reported stolen and the remote wipe functionality used. Further, there will be multiple fingerprints over the phone, most of them partials which won't be of any use and it hasn't been demonstrated that fingerprints can be lifted from the phone itself - in the example it was a fingerprint taken from a glass surface, which is obvious an ideal circumstance. As soon as you're talking about following people around for their fingerprint then the situation is the same as overlooking somebody enter their passcode.

The thing is, fingerprints and passcodes are only designed to prevent casual thieves and strangers accessing your phone - neither will stop dedicated thieves. In real world usage fingerprint scanners provide better security than passcodes. That may change as easier / more convenient hacks are discovered but it's the reality for now. The best security is still preventing anybody else from getting hold of your phone.