Dell: "Uncertain adoption" of Windows 8 is part of its reason to go private

Dell announced its plans to back turn itself back into a private company via a leveraged buyout with help from a $2 billion loan from Microsoft, in early February. The plan, which would pay owners of the company's stock $13.65 a share, is already being challenged by two alternative buyout offers from outside parties.

Dell's upcoming XPS 18 all-in-one Windows 8 touchscreen PC; a mix of tablet and desktop

While Microsoft may be chipping in to help raise the $24.4 billion needed for Dell's official leveraged buyout, a new filing made late on Friday with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission states that the launch of Microsoft's Windows 8 OS was part of the reason why Dell felt now is the time for its change from a public to a private business.

Dell's document states that, in the company's opinion, there are a number of challenges that are facing the PC industry. They include " ... the uncertain adoption of the Windows 8 operating system and unexpected slowdowns in enterprise Windows 7 upgrades." Dell also cited a general sales decline in the worldwide desktop and laptop PC market, along with an increase in tablets and smartphone sales from consumers, which Dell believes people could buy as substitutes for new PCs.

The SEC filing did not directly address the two competing bids for Dell from the Blackstone Group and billionaire Carl Icahn. However, it did say that, in its opinion, there were "a number of risks and challenges" if Dell were to remain a public company. In related news, Reuters reports, via unnamed sources, that Dell founder and CEO Michael Dell met privately with the senior managing directors of the Blackstone Group earlier this week. The report did not state what was discussed at the meeting nor its outcome.

Source: SEC | Image via Dell

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I love hearing these oems try to blame their lack of success on windows 8. So what was Gateways problem? Most people who complain about w8 on here have nothing better to do than hate and whine about no start button, get a life. the reason dell is failing, crappy products and high prices for touchscreen devices. Remember, these are the first TS capable windows devices to hit mainstream and the first obes will always be expensive or what seems expensive. Also, wheres the devices? why did I have to drive to a MS store to buy my Surface Pro when they first came out? Or to buy the Samsung ativ pro 700t? Do you know thiers an Acer i5 for 1199 that is thinner than any mac book and cheaper and does more? Its about lack of 2 things really, supply and marketing. Oh, and even though I like al my MS products , one thing, stop announcing **** that wont be available for in store purchase.
The orhter thing is I don't think these oems realized that people do want hd touchscreen devices. I wont buy anything unless:
Has hd screen
Has touchscreen

I think that it is the opposite. There are not a real reason to buy windows 8 but to spend money (and time) because it is new. Most people is buying windows 8 only because it is new and nothing more.
Do you want a notebook?, then gets a proper one!, Do you want a tablet?, then get a real tablet. Do you want a desktop, then F*CK with touch gimmick (and f*ck) with the people that touch my screen and mark with their fingerprints my screen.

I've yet to see a decent windows 8 tablet, and there is zero reason to upgrade from windows 7 to 8 for a desktop/laptop. I love the tablet UI, but nothing out there has the horsepower I want yet. The lenovo helix is interesting, but it's not out yet.

edit: i should point out that I did upgrade - but only because it was cheap, not because there was a compelling reason to do so

have you tried the Samsung ativ pro 700t? I love mine, perfect size screen and very fast.....it did have a bout 80 updates after I bought it though.....

PC sales have been in decline since iPad and possibly before then. Just search articles over the past few years about decline in sales. My own PC I've had for nearly 5 years. Years ago I upgraded every 2 years. Just don't see a reason to now. People just aren't buying them as much because they last longer + tablets are easier and more convenient. It's not JUST because of Windows 8. Dell has to have a scapegoat so Win8 is an easy target.

laserfloyd said,
. It's not JUST because of Windows 8. .

A great quote to summarize. But pc maker would have liked an Os that helps to boost the sales, rather than one that hamper them further.

How is Windows 8 hampering PC sales? There is absolutely ZERO evidence of that. Sales of new hardware are flat largely due to lack of NEED for new hardware. I'm an admitted outlier, and even the one feature that Windows 8 has better support for on new hardware (virtualization - not touch) is not exactly large enough for me to spend the $330USD left to support it fully on the client side of Windows 8. CPU (i5-3570K)=$190, motherboard (ASRock Z77 Extreme4) = $100, cost to travel (mass transit) = $20, lunch = $10. Note there are NO other costs. Most *ordinary folk* have higher costs than I do, due to them having to purchase the entire system (I'm perfectly capable of using screwdrivers and my brain to build or upgrade a PC). That means that they have higher costs to justify - and by and large they can't. And that leaves out increased pressure on spending, including corporate spending. (In fact, look at Apple - the Apple board is being taken to task for NOT declaring a massive special dividend to pay out most, if not all, of their hoard of cash to shareholders. Basically, Apple's stockholders don't want Apple to reinvest back into the company.)

I do enjoy the OEMs blaming Microsoft and Windows 8 for not saving their sinking ships - PC (including) laptop sales have been in decline year over year since 2007 or 2008, depending on whom you ask. OEMs blaming Microsoft because of many factors is almost comical - especially from Dell, who dug their own grave in their endless race to the bottom on quality (both build quality and support) over the last decade or more.

Burn in hell dell, burn in hell.
Anyone with little to NO pc building skill can build a better machine, cheaper than the crap they try to offload onto us.

Still doesn't change the fact that this is the future.

But, the reality is the PC market has been in decline long before Windows 8. If anyone remembers there was all this buzz at the time of Vista's release, AND Windows 7's release. Remember when Windows 7 was supposed to save the market? Despite strong sales, it hasn't stopped the tablet boom. People want tablets, not PCs anymore. And I can't blame them, they're great devices, and can be used almost everywhere. My room mate travels with her Kind Fire, and I've all but abandoned my laptop for mine.

It's a different world out there compared to the days of XP. It's time to let that go, and see what else is possible.

Edited by Dot Matrix, Mar 31 2013, 12:13am :

no, no. everything is going CLOUD. this is why the surface and Ipad systems are rocking as they are. Companies are proliferating the cloud and moving everyone's storage to data warehouses. So the tablet is supposed to move the market to smaller is better attitude and people don't keep their data unless on a USB stick. MS is trying to play catch up in the cloud arena and windows 8 Surface systems are the way

People still have the same amount of money or maybe even less but they have to pay much more for mobile and entertainment these days...like apps, music & movies streaming services, data plan...etc. If companies like Apple and Samsung rise, then someone has to die. We don't have the money to buy everything. Since nobody seems to complain, that their life quality has reduced I assume that everybody doing just fine with their smart phones and tablets. For everyone who do fancy stuffs on their PC, great for you but look around and you see people use their PC only to check email and print some documents.

We are at a stage where consumers are very uncertain what they really need. I hope once they figure out that everything do the same stuffs in different size they will calm down from this mess. As for companies, they should focus to make better quality hardwares and improve customer support. Until then ...it's "last-man-standing-game"

And there you have it folks, windows 8 is such a failure that it is talking entire companies down with it.
What a colossal failure of an OS, wow !

Order_66 said,
And there you have it folks, windows 8 is such a failure that it is talking entire companies down with it.
What a colossal failure of an OS, wow !

Wait so if this is Windows 8's fault why aren't they getting any sales from their Windows 7 PCs which they are selling in the enterprise as well?

Maybe because the enterprise has just upgraded a lot of it's fleet and doesn't need new computers just yet?

Windows 8 is NOT the reason at all, it is us the stupid consumer, who does not like to understand the Windows 8 upgrade, why not click more, clicking more to do things is good for your health, it is an exercise for your fingers, it is good

Hiding things is also good, it helps the consumer think and pay attention, thinking may prevent things like Parkinson.

Windows 8 is just good for the consumer health, it is not them, it is the stupid us

by by 8, they did not listen, it is time for them to get FIREDDDDDDDDD !

I have been using Windows 8 for months, and Ive had it. I had to go back to Windows 7! I dont understand why everyone is in denial about Windows 8 not being sucessful! I tried and tried to adapt to Windows 8 but I could not! Windows 7 is the best!

lctb51 said,
I have been using Windows 8 for months, and Ive had it. I had to go back to Windows 7! I dont understand why everyone is in denial about Windows 8 not being sucessful! I tried and tried to adapt to Windows 8 but I could not! Windows 7 is the best!

What is there to adapt to... If you think Windows 7 is the best good luck to you but you can't try and blame all your problems on the software provider when they are trying to HELP you. Do you think consumers would rush out to buy a new PC if the folder icons had changed a little bit and a new desktop picture? No. Windows 8 is the first stepping stone to a PC revolution that is mobile, fast and can you content 24/7. Microsoft have shifted paradigms completely before with often poor reception at the start, give it 2 years and its the best thing since sliced bread.

Windows 8 is more like a de-evolution! More than 90% of Microsofts customers use desktops and laptops with no touchscreens! The best mobile operating system is acutally Android. Windows should stay on laptops and desktops, unless Microsoft could develop a totally different os from the ground up for tablets!

just because OEMs might not sell as many pcs doesn't mean its automatically a windows 8 thing. of course the usual crowd will twist anything to make themselves believe something that just isn't true. as you can see,pc sales down a few pct can be attributed to upgrades. after all,windows 8 upgrades were pretty cheap and a lot of people had fast enough computers.

lets look at the installed base of ipad and android tablets, and compare it to the installed base of windows 8 after 5 months on the market

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-201310-201313

windows 8 4.23%
mac 7.26%
ios(ipads) 3.93%
android 1.11%

remember, ipad mini was released at the exact same time as windows 8. ipad marketshare didn't even grow %1. mac went down %0.25. windows 8 grew 4.23%. remember,there were still a lot of windows 7 pcs still on sale,and a lot of windows 8 hardware didn't show up for 2 months. windows 8 doesn't yet have the benefit of being on ultracheap hardware,like netbooks,or 7" tablets. The competition is really enjoying themselves right now. Wait until you can get a nice 7" windows 8 tablet with keyboard for $250. look for windows 8 to completely wipe out the competition, like it hasn't done already. but of course,those who have their blinders on and earplugs will keep spewing their usual drivel.

You're comparing a mobile OS (iOS) on one device, to Windows 8 which as a brand includes PC's and Mobiles.....

Only way Windows 8 is going to continue selling is because of PC's that come with it preinstalled forcing it upon the consumers.

I really cannot see Windows phones or tablets picking up that much more steam.


Think of it this way

Neowins members seem to be split 50/50 on Windows 8. If it's a 50/50 split on a tech site where people LOVE new technology and tinkering what's it like with joe public. They don't like it period.

I've not come across anyone who loves windows 8 in the real world. Not my mum, my sister, any of my friends or anyone at work. They just say why do I need it? and why do they? really. Why do they NEED it? for most people it's just hassle. They will only get it when buying a new machine, and that will be a cheap one. Then they will hate it and want windows 7 back because it's what they know. Why do you think iOS has been the same for eons? Most people stick with what they know. They are not like us.

The private consumer (not including techies like us on neowin) can easily make do with a £250 machine. Dell were selling an i3 laptop just after Christmas with 6gb ram, 750gb hard disk and windows 8. That spec will server 99% of the private consumers. Obviously there's the upward trend for mobiles and tablets as well.

Those of us who crave GeForce graphics cards, watercooling, ssds, windows cases etc etc make up a VERY small percentage of dells customers, and of those an even smaller percentage buy the XPS line.

I can understand why they are uncertain. Microsoft are trying to converge their products mobile, gaming and desktop. Problem is this....nobody cares about the desktop, most have either iOS or Android on the phone leaving just gaming, and those who buy the new xbox won't think....hey I just have to get a new PC and Mobile now.

Regarding dell in general

Dell make most of their money from enterprise. Virtualization and cloud are going to really hit their profits hard. The issue is that hardware is so fast you can run many servers on one box. Software licensing is done straight through Microsoft so the vendors don't get a cut on it leaving it down to just hardware and support services.

Companies like this often think about downsizing their business. Creating a smaller more profitable company. When you try and do everything, you end up making lots of poor products. Why is dell selling enterprise servers, sans, switches, racks, desktops, laptops, tablets, mobiles? seems too much imho

"Uncertain" is the key word. DELL may be the smart one on the block; as a vast majority of business/enterprise users are not going to abandon Windows-7 for the sake of a cutesy touch-centric UI. Instead, they will get full use of their investment in hardware and training made for Windows-7. There will be a huge market for those businesses who chose to upgrade their hardware and want to remain with the Windows-7 UI. [Maybe DELL is pre-positioning themselves to be the first on the market with Windows-9 is released to fix the problems of Windows-8?]

The reason PC sales are tanking is that Windows 8 is seen by the public as a complete pile of crap, and for once I am in complete agreement with them. At this moment in time I'd see taking money from Microsoft as a bad move, it will give Microsoft far too much leverage over their business decisions.

PC sales have been in decline for a long time ago... LONG before Windows 8 was even in the design phase.

The market is saturated already, and competition from tablets and smartphones is very strong. Add in that the upgrade cycle is considerably longer now... you don't need to upgrade as often... and it's a guaranteed recipe for a slowdown.

Only a change to touch hardware could jumpstart PC sales... which is why Microsoft is lowering the price for a Windows license on touchscreen PCs by 70% starting in June/July. That will shift touch from cost-prohibitive to cost-effective and profitable.

Folks by and large hate Windows 8 (and even *hate* may be too much) because it's different - primarily due to it lacking the one constant that Windows has had since 9x and NT4 - the Start menu. Like it or not, the Start menu is the longest-lived item of legacy code in Windows, and its excision ignited a set of feelings that Microsoft is dealing with. While some can get past it (not all of those are touch-wedded), some simply can't - even as much as they would like to. The majority of WINDOWS users have had no real alternative to the Start menu for nearly twenty years - and they are going to get used to it being gone? That is why Microsoft planned for Windows 7 and 8 to co-exist.

TsarNikky - Yes; Windows 8 supports touch - more so than Windows 7. However, just because of that, you immediately try to pigeonhole it as touch-centered. However, when it gets down to cases, Windows 8 is no more touch-centered than Android 4.x (either Jelly Bean or Ice Cream Sandwich) and, like Android, is perfectly usable without it.

The bigger issue (for Dell, HP, etc.) is that hardware requirements for the OS, productivity applications, and even most games, have gone pretty much nowhere since (egad) Windows *Vista*; when you try to push them, you get pushback from users - and it's far from pretty. (Look at how much pushback Crytek got for abandoning DX9c/DX10 users with Crysis 3 - from PC gamers.) On the one hand, we complain that Windows or software for Windows doesn't push the hardware curve, while on the other we complain just as hard - if not harder - when it does. Why should anyone listen to us?

Unexpected slowdown? Who are you kidding Dell? After AMD and Intel got into a standstill with mostly only TDP wars left it was sure that PC's aren't being upgraded as often so therefor Windows 7 (activations) stay in a standstill (Windows 8 mostly gets new users when people actually buy new PC's or used the upgrade offer for 15 bucks). What a bs. Even AMD said in their yearly conference call that they are lowering their expectations on parts sales due to low demand but it was unexpected for Dell? Meh.

It's also funny that even though PC sales have been dropping for years now (even with the release of Windows 7) Dell considers it unexpected.

It's not like PC sales suddenly went from billions to 10 a year overnight. They've been dropping for quite a while now and their year on year growth has been virtually non-existent since like 2008.

During that time tablets have been growing.

It's nothing new that tablets are growing in sales, they were a new thing. More portable and not upgradable for most part.

PC's on the other hand, you can still buy a new GPU for a 1'st gen i7 and you're good for another 2 years, you don't need a new Windows license for that.

Dell is delusional and talking out of their arse to find a reason to put into the report.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Unexpected slowdown? Who are you kidding Dell? After AMD and Intel got into a standstill with mostly only TDP wars left it was sure that PC's aren't being upgraded as often.

Actually, at least based on what the article says the unexpected slowdown is referred to upgrade to Windows 7 machines:
"unexpected slowdowns in enterprise Windows 7 upgrades."
My educated guess is that a lot of enterprises are with XP and considering that end of support for the OS is coming a roll-out of new machine with W7 was expected.

True, I missed that part, sorry on my behalf for that but I think my point still stands for consumer market

Also I'll add a side note, we're mostly power users here so I can only say what I see around me, also mostly power users, I'm not too much aware of the "regular" market and anyone who is should freely correct me.

Two words - hardware support. The cost of the OS is NOT the biggest portion of OEM costs in terms of hardware; hardware support for the OS (or OSes, if there are multiple choices) is. Support (hardware support) for a Linux distribution (or distributions) is not free, and it especially isn't when the hardware manufacturer writes the driver - it gets added into the cost of hardware. (As an example, look at System76.) In order for Dell to expand non-Windows offerings, they have to, at minimum, be able to earn those sunk costs back. (The same applies to HP - or ANY computer company, in fact.) A public PC company (Dell or any other) is under far more scrutineering into the things it does in terms of offerings to their customers than a private company would be (simply due to regulatory compliance requirements) - why would it be worth it to Dell?

Agreed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Windows 7, which I get all my Dell computers shipped with.

The problem with Dell is that while they do make some really good PCs (the XPS line etc) they also make some absolute trash.

They're one of those companies where you really get what you pay for. If you skimp out and buy the cheapest PC, it's going to be made of plastic, and last about a year. And if you don't pay the little bit extra for support, you're going to get absolute **** for support. Now if you buy one of their premium products (XPS) or buy stuff through a business account (you don't need to be a business to make one), you generally get excellent support and next day parts / repair.

I've owned a dell laptop for the past 8 years now (2 premium brands and one through a business account) and I've always gotten excellent support. I call them with a problem and tell them that this part needs to be replaced and I get the part within a day or two (I prefer to repair my laptop myself and Dell doesn't care about that). Now most people just buy the cheapest thing they can find and then complain the support sucks. Yeah well you get what you pay for.

Hopefully going private will be good for the company.

-Razorfold said,
The problem with Dell is that while they do make some really good PCs (the XPS line etc) they also make some absolute trash.

They're one of those companies where you really get what you pay for. If you skimp out and buy the cheapest PC, it's going to be made of plastic, and last about a year. And if you don't pay the little bit extra for support, you're going to get absolute **** for support. Now if you buy one of their premium products (XPS) or buy stuff through a business account (you don't need to be a business to make one), you generally get excellent support and next day parts / repair.

I've owned a dell laptop for the past 8 years now (2 premium brands and one through a business account) and I've always gotten excellent support. I call them with a problem and tell them that this part needs to be replaced and I get the part within a day or two (I prefer to repair my laptop myself and Dell doesn't care about that). Now most people just buy the cheapest thing they can find and then complain the support sucks. Yeah well you get what you pay for.

Hopefully going private will be good for the company.

If this was the real reason why sales are bad, this should be the truth for most of the other companies with bad sales, like HP. asus and others.
Their motivates stated in the article are the real ones.

-Razorfold said,
The problem with Dell is that while they do make some really good PCs (the XPS line etc) they also make some absolute trash.

They're one of those companies where you really get what you pay for. If you skimp out and buy the cheapest PC, it's going to be made of plastic, and last about a year. And if you don't pay the little bit extra for support, you're going to get absolute **** for support. Now if you buy one of their premium products (XPS) or buy stuff through a business account (you don't need to be a business to make one), you generally get excellent support and next day parts / repair.

I've owned a dell laptop for the past 8 years now (2 premium brands and one through a business account) and I've always gotten excellent support. I call them with a problem and tell them that this part needs to be replaced and I get the part within a day or two (I prefer to repair my laptop myself and Dell doesn't care about that). Now most people just buy the cheapest thing they can find and then complain the support sucks. Yeah well you get what you pay for.

Hopefully going private will be good for the company.

That may have been the case back when vista was released and companies were releasing crappy Vista basic machines with 512 megs of ram. But now days while they may be cheaper they run windows fine.

If this was the real reason why sales are bad, this should be the truth for most of the other companies with bad sales, like HP. asus and others.
Their motivates stated in the article are the real ones.

Except I didn't say this was the reason why Dell was going bankrupt. I was saying that they do make **** PCs.

That may have been the case back when vista was released and companies were releasing crappy Vista basic machines with 512 megs of ram. But now days while they may be cheaper they run windows fine.

I didn't say that they don't run Windows fine, I said that their build quality and components on their cheap laptops are absolutely pathetic.

Hence why I said if they become private they could work on making less PCs with better quality. Instead of more PCs with **** quality.

-Razorfold said,

Except I didn't say this was the reason why Dell was going bankrupt. I was saying that they do make **** PCs.


I didn't say that they don't run Windows fine, I said that their build quality and components on their cheap laptops are absolutely pathetic.

Hence why I said if they become private they could work on making less PCs with better quality. Instead of more PCs with **** quality.

The majority of people don't care about build quality. If they do, they spend more for better hardware and case.
But the OS, then it's a different story. For most people, the OS and the hardware are the same s***. And the OS is going terribly bad: no one understands the damn Win 8 UI and most people don't care about touchscreen desktop PCs and notebooks or hybrid frankenstein s*** that hardly works as expected.
Microsoft is killing the PC industry. It's like Ballmer has sold out his soul to Google and Apple and is helping them out with the destruction of Microsoft and the PC as we know it.
Windows 8 couldn't be better for the competition... That's why they don't even mind about bashing Microsoft anymore: the company does the s*** much better by themselves. That's incredible to say the least!

The majority of people don't care about build quality. If they do, they spend more for better hardware and case.

Really? I think you'll find people do care about build quality. There's a reason why a number of people purchase Apple products over say Acer. Not all of them are raging fanboys.

But the OS, then it's a different story. For most people, the OS and the hardware are the same s***. And the OS is going terribly bad: no one understands the damn Win 8 UI and most people don't care about touchscreen desktop PCs and notebooks or hybrid frankenstein s*** that hardly works as expected. Microsoft is killing the PC industry.

Then explain why the PC sales industry has been going down for a long long time now? The year on year growth for sales has been virtually non-existent even when Windows 8 didn't exist.

During that time tablets have gone from being non-existent to massive sales.

Sure Windows 8 may not be a giant consumer success but it isn't the only reason why people aren't buy new PCs. For most people there just isn't really a need anymore. The jump from Pentium 4 to Core series was massive, the jump from C2D to the i-series was pretty big, but the jumps since then haven't really been much.

I have a first gen i7 purchased 3 years ago and it runs everything I need it to run just fine. I also have an older nvidia 445m GPU which also does the same (runs bf3 on medium-high, runs bioshock infinite on medium). Why should I pay another $1000 to upgrade my PC when really things on it just run fine? Even for most PC gamers who want top of the line graphics an old i7 would do just fine since most new games aren't CPU dependent and an old AMD dual core gets almost the same FPS as a hexacore i7. Just buy a new GPU, throw it in and voila you're set.

For people who just use their computer to check email and browse facebook, read the news etc. Why do they need to buy a brand new PC for $500? For that money they can get a highly portable tablet that gets great battery life and is light.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 30 2013, 8:01pm :

-Razorfold said,

Really? I think you'll find people do care about build quality. There's a reason why a number of people purchase Apple products over say Acer. Not all of them are raging fanboys.


Then explain why the PC sales industry has been going down for a long long time now? The year on year growth for sales has been virtually non-existent even when Windows 8 didn't exist.

During that time tablets have gone from being non-existent to massive sales.

People who do care about build quality also care about running a great, modern, beautiful OS. That's not Windows 8.

PCs sales are bad because of competition coming from tablets, cellphones and Apple (which have Mac sales going up). But... Microsoft is helping the competition by making things worse instead of reverting this tendency.

Once again, we're back to Dell's real reasons why sales are declining, aren't we?

PCs sales are bad because of competition coming from tablets, cellphones and Apple (which have Mac sales going up). But... Microsoft is helping the competition by making things worse instead of reverting this tendency.

Once again, we're back to Dell's real reasons why sales are declining, aren't we?


And because the need to upgrade computers isn't really there anymore. 3-4 year old CPUs and GPUs handle modern games just fine. And for most people a simple first-gen i3 would handle all their tasks just fine. Facebook and e-mail isn't going to suddenly load 500x faster just because they bought a $1000 new PC.

Windows 7 failed to revert that tendency too. Are you going to claim that 7 was a failure and MS should have scrapped it and just stuck with Vista / XP?

"PCs sales are bad because of competition coming from tablets, cellphones and Apple (which have Mac sales going up). But... Microsoft is helping the competition by making things worse instead of reverting this tendency. "

While on some part it's true that Smartphones and tablets are somewhat to blame on PC sales going down it's not the biggest factor.

First in PC sales in general mostly it's OEM PC's that are counted, if you look around more and more people are using help from their local techies who do "custom builds" which do not go into that category. And the other bigger part is the ones that do no upgrade what so ever just because they don't need, not just regular everyday users but also companies who won't upgrade since they don't see the need because their infrastructure is built for one type of hardware for the time being. Once AMD and Intel actually come out with something new and revolutionary there will only be small upgrades and the OEM PC sales will keep on going down. As far as I see that won't happen soon. Intel is pushing in billions in R&D and all they got is tri-gate? Seriously? AMD is far behind Intel but thankfully still kicking and alive.

-Razorfold said,

And because the need to upgrade computers isn't really there anymore. 3-4 year old CPUs and GPUs handle modern games just fine. And for most people a simple i3 would handle all their tasks just fine. Facebook and e-mail isn't going to suddenly load 500x faster just because they bought a $1000 new PC.

Windows 7 failed to revert that tendency too. Are you going to claim that 7 was a failure and MS should have scrapped it and just stuck with Vista / XP?

^That is also an important consideration...
Anyway, Microsoft is doing nothing to make new PCs a worthy upgrade. People still rather buy an iPad. And that is because the Windows 8 UI, Windows Phone UI and all of the Windows brand is going down the hill with such a bad taste called "innovation" that people prefer to be on the safe side that works for them.
MS'push of that horrible UI is only making the Windows adoption worse.
Metro was Microsoft's worst decision since the company was founded and if they don't change it radically, it's gonna kill the huge company as we once knew.

Once again, we're back to Dell's real reasons why sales are declining, aren't we?

What's also funny is most people don't realize that the vast MAJORITY of Dell revenue comes from their Enterprise and Business customers. Not consumers.

2008:
Business: 31,144 M
Consumer: 6,224 M

2007
Business: 29,311 M
Consumer: 7,069 M

2006:
Business: 28,365 M
Consumer: 7,960 M

Or this: http://www.tilsonfunds.com/Dell-T2analysis-9-11.pdf Look at page 10.

Sure they do say that the unexpected slowdown of Windows 7 enterprise sales, but then this article and people on this forum are only going to read "Windows 8."

Anyway, Microsoft is doing nothing to make new PCs a worthy upgrade. People still rather buy an iPad. And that is because the Windows 8 UI, Windows Phone UI and all of the Windows brand is going down the hill with such a bad taste called "innovation" that people prefer to be on the safe side that works for them.

What? Most people will still rather buy an iPad over a PC because its CONVENIENT. A simple light tablet that they can carry everywhere and does everything that they need done will ALWAYS be better than a thick heavy desktop or an insanely expensive ultrabook.

Both my parents and my wife's parents no longer feel the need to use their laptops / desktops. It's almost all tablets now because for them that's all they need. And it wasn't because of Windows 8 because they switched over well well before 8 was even in public beta.

Ultrabooks are a great idea and should get more people to come back to PCs because people like having something light that turns on instantly and is great for productivity. But the current generation ones are still quite pricey. The macbook air is $1000, the Samsung one is something like $800-$900 etc. An iPad starts at $500.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 30 2013, 9:03pm :

-Razorfold said,

What's also funny is most people don't realize that the vast MAJORITY of Dell revenue comes from their Enterprise and Business customers. Not consumers.

Or this: http://www.tilsonfunds.com/Dell-T2analysis-9-11.pdf Look at page 10.

Sure they do say that the unexpected slowdown of Windows 7 enterprise sales, but then this article and people on this forum are only going to read "Windows 8."

Your data only plays against you, as the enterprise never careed about fancy aluminum cases.
So what are you trying to prove here? That Windows was declining even before Windows 8? Well, you failed on that one too, because business' revenue is actually increasing until 2008 and certainly until 2012 (when Windows 7 was readily available).
What's your point anyway?

Your data only plays against you, as the enterprise never careed about fancy aluminum cases.
So what are you trying to prove here? That Windows was declining even before Windows 8? Well, you failed on that one too, because business' revenue is actually increasing until 2008 and certainly until 2012 (when Windows 7 was readily available).
What's your point anyway?

My point was that declining enterprise sales is one of the main reasons Dell is going private. Most of their revenue comes from businesses, corporations, governments etc and if that starts to decline they're going to hurt. Dell could close its consumer business and they'll still make billions. The only point about the money they make was to show how big the difference between business and consumer was. Dell have stated (and it's in the article) that enterprise sales slowdown is one of the reasons but most people won't bother reading that and instead just see Windows 8 and start going LOL.

Businesses never ever upgrade to the latest OS instantly and Win8 isn't going to change that. When 7 released most businesses were still on XP and even today a massive massive amount still are.

-Razorfold said,

Businesses never ever upgrade to the latest OS instantly and Win8 isn't going to change that. When 7 released most businesses were still on XP and even today a massive massive amount still are.

Exactly. And that is why you should read Dell's reasons once again, where it cleary states that there's a lot of UNCERTAINTY IF WINDOWS 8 will ever be adopted.

Sorry, nobody likes Windows 8, except Gizmodo (which actually mostly uses Mac) and the fanboys on Neowin.

And we're back to Dell being honest about the statement.

Exactly. And that is why you should read Dell's reasons once again, where it cleary states that there's a lot of UNCERTAINTY IF WINDOWS 8 will ever be adopted.

What's that got to do with Dell going private? Even if Windows 8 was a roaring success it would take 5 years for companies to even start upgrading. Dell would STILL be going private because most of their money doesn't come from their consumer divisions no matter how good they're doing.

Like I said the Windows 8 thing only applies to their consumer division and if you checked the pdf file I linked. You'd see that only 5% of their profit comes from their consumer division. 5-****ing-percent. They could completely sack their consumer division that sells Windows 8 and if the enterprise is doing good then Dell will still be doing good. That doesn't work the other way around and if enterprise sales are down while consumer sales are good then Dell is in trouble.

Hence if enterprise WINDOWS 7 SALES (like it states) are slowing down then Dell is in real trouble. If this article's title

-Razorfold said,

What's that got to do with Dell going private? Even if Windows 8 was a roaring success it would take 5 years for companies to even start upgrading. Dell would STILL be going private because most of their money doesn't come from their consumer divisions no matter how good they're doing.

Like I said the Windows 8 thing only applies to their consumer division and if you checked the pdf file I linked. You'd see that only 5% of their profit comes from their consumer division. 5-****ing-percent. They could completely sack their consumer division that sells Windows 8 and if the enterprise is doing good then Dell will still be doing good. That doesn't work the other way around and if enterprise sales are down then Dell is in trouble.

Hence if enterprise WINDOWS 7 SALES (like it states) are slowing down then Dell is in real trouble. Oh wait now you finally get my point.

You clearly lack the vast financial knowledge to understand why a company chooses to go private. One of them is the sales prediction for the long-term (***and 5 years is the minimum time considered***) among many other important, although less impactful predictions than sales alone.

You clearly lack the vast financial knowledge to understand why a company chooses to go private. One of them is the sales prediction for the long-term (***and 5 years is the minimum time considered***) among many other important, although less impactful predictions than sales alone.

You clearly fail to understand that Windows 8 right now and for the next 5 years will only apply to their consumer division. If companies are just now upgrading to Windows 7 they won't bother upgrading again till Windows 9 (or even 10 depending on how fast 9 releases). Windows 8 even if it was a roaring massive success will barely be used by businesses because that's just how they work. So it makes absolutely no difference to businesses how good Windows 8 is, they wouldn't have bothered updating to it anyways.

And like I've said for the 20th time, Dell's consumer division accounts for a very small amount of their profits, just 5%. Windows 8 could be the best thing ever invented and it would still barely make a difference in Dell's profits. Their business division accounts for 95% of their profits. If they aren't selling very many new Windows 7 PCs to corporations then THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.

See whats funny is I originally made a post about how Dell's build quality has been dropping, has nothing to do with Windows or anything. I didn't even mention Windows in my original post. But still some people (*ahem* you) need to make it about Windows 8.

-Razorfold said,

You clearly fail to understand that Windows 8 right now and for the next 5 years will only apply to their consumer division. If companies are just now upgrading to Windows 7 they won't bother upgrading again till Windows 9 (or even 10 depending on how fast 9 releases). Windows 8 even if it was a roaring massive success will barely be used by businesses because that's just how they work. So it makes absolutely no difference to businesses how good Windows 8 is, they wouldn't have bothered updating to it anyways.

And like I've said for the 20th time, Dell's consumer division accounts for a very small amount of their profits, just 5%. Windows 8 could be the best thing ever invented and it would still barely make a difference in Dell's profits. Their business division accounts for 95% of their profits. If they aren't selling very many new Windows 7 PCs to corporations then THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.

Of course you always will have an answer because you want to win the debate.
I don't care. There are no judges here and I dismiss fanboyism.
So... you win, ok? Of course you win.
Bye.

See whats funny is I originally made a post about how Dell's build quality has been dropping, has nothing to do with Windows or anything. I didn't even mention Windows in my original post. But still some people (*ahem* you) need to make it about Windows 8.

You started this giant argument about Windows 8 even though my original post and my first reply had nothing to do with Windows in anyway. It was just simply an observation on how the Dell brand has slowly gone downhill over the years.

Somehow that got turned into OH GOD WINDOWS 8 IS RESPONSIBLE because you couldn't resist jabbing that into a post that had pretty much nothing to do with Windows 8 anyways.

-Razorfold said,

You started this giant argument about Windows 8 even though my original post and my first reply had nothing to do with Windows in anyway. It was just simply an observation on how the Dell brand has slowly gone downhill over the years.

Somehow that got turned into OH GOD WINDOWS 8 IS RESPONSIBLE.

Send your complaints to Dell... They're the ones blaming Windows 8.
I can only agree, though.

Send your complaints to Dell... They're the ones blaming Windows 8.
I can only agree, though.

I'm not the one complaining about Windows 8 am I? I was pointing out that Dell's product quality has gone downhill over the years.

I didn't say that was why they were going bankrupt. I didn't say anything about Windows. I didn't say anything about how much money they make and how many PCs they sold. YOU brought Windows 8 into a completely unrelated discussion and then you complain about it? And I stupidly got into this long ass completely unrelated to my original post argument with you.

The only point I had to make with my original post was that if they went private they could focus more on making quality PCs and not fall into the trap of making cheap junk because nowadays if you ask people what they think of when they hear Dell chances are they'll say cheap. So now can we get back to the point of my original post?

-Razorfold said,

I'm not the one complaining about Windows 8 am I? I was pointing out that Dell's product quality has gone downhill over the years.

I didn't say that was why they were going bankrupt. I didn't say anything about Windows. I didn't say anything about how much money they make and how many PCs they sold. YOU brought Windows 8 into a completely unrelated discussion and then you complain about it? And I stupidly got into this long ass completely unrelated to my original post argument with you.

The only point I had to make with my original post was that if they went private they could focus more on making quality PCs and not fall into the trap of making cheap junk because nowadays if you ask people what they think of when they hear Dell chances are they'll say cheap. So now can we get back to the point of my original post?

I think Dell knows more than you do the type of markets they want to attend.
Also, the title for the article you commented is "Dell: "Uncertain adoption" of Windows 8 is part of its reason to go private"
So, who exactly is making this a debate about the PC build quality? That's you.
What I tried to do is to show you that build quality has NOTHING to do with Dell's declining sales and the fact that it's going private.
So maybe you're mad because you already got convinced about that, but: 1. Doesn't want to accept this. or 2. You're still locked up in your views.
Whatever way you chose, I'm out.

*facepalm*

Please point to me the section in my original post where I said dell's build quality has led to declining sales? Oh wait I didn't but since you want to talk about that, please explain to me why their consumer division has had reduced sales since 2008? Windows 7 came out in 2009 and according to you that should have meant Dell made massive sales but they didn't.

And yes Dell does know more about what type of markets they want to attend to. And corporations still come first.

But bye I'm done arguing with you too since I can pretty much repeat your enter last 3 sentences to you.

-Razorfold said,
*facepalm*

Please point to me the section in my original post where I said dell's build quality has led to declining sales? Oh wait I didn't but since you want to talk about that, please explain to me why their consumer division has had reduced sales since 2008? Windows 7 came out in 2009 and according to you that should have meant Dell made massive sales but they didn't.

And yes Dell does know more about what type of markets they want to attend to. And corporations still come first.

But bye I'm done arguing with you too since I can pretty much repeat your enter last 3 sentences to you.

As a business analyst, you're a great religious evangelist.

So maybe you're mad because you already got convinced about that, but: 1. Doesn't want to accept this. or 2. You're still locked up in your views.
*cough* *cough*

Gotta love how stuff always turns to personal insults or outright trolling on this forum when you run out of things to say.

-Razorfold said,
*cough* *cough*

Gotta love how stuff always turns to personal insults or outright trolling on this forum when you run out of things to say.

People like you and your slippery arguments are the majority here on Neowin and it shows when the pressure increases. Isn't it great? You're at home.

My slippery arguments? In none of my arguments did I state that Windows 8 is the greatest OS on earth. I simply pointed out three things:

1. Windows 8 has done less harm to Dell than declining corporate sales.
2. PC sales have been declining since before Windows 8.
3. Most people will completely avoid the other reasons for dell going private and just focus on Windows 8.

You call me a fanboy but in none of my posts have I stated that Windows 8 is the greatest thing on earth. The only thing you want to talk about though is Windows 8. And so far I've been able to prove all 3 of those points with facts. And the only one you can some-what prove/dis-prove is point number 2 with that MS hasn't done much to stop the decline in PC sales. Not to mention you're like the poster boy for number 3.

I've just simply been pointing out that Windows 8 isn't the only reason for Dell's decline and it's certainly not the major reason (not by a long short). Too bad you just haven't been able to see past that.

So hey who's the one with slippery arguments.

-Razorfold said,
My slippery arguments? In none of my arguments did I state that Windows 8 is the greatest OS on earth. I simply pointed out three things:

1. Windows 8 has done less harm to Dell than declining corporate sales.
2. PC sales have been declining since before Windows 8.
3. Most people will completely avoid the other reasons for dell going private and just focus on Windows 8.

You call me a fanboy but in none of my posts have I stated that Windows 8 is the greatest thing on earth. The only thing you want to talk about though is Windows 8. And so far I've been able to prove all 3 of those points with facts. And the only one you can some-what prove/dis-prove is point number 2 with that MS hasn't done much to stop the decline in PC sales. Not to mention you're like the poster boy for number 3.

I've just simply been pointing out that Windows 8 isn't the only reason for Dell's decline and it's certainly not the major reason (not by a long short). Too bad you just haven't been able to see past that.

So hey who's the one with slippery arguments.

Dear, welcome to the past. Dell's decision is about the future.
Sleep thigh.

Dear, welcome to the past. Dell's decision is about the future.
Sleep thigh.

I dunno. Dell has made some pretty bad decisions in the past that will affect their future.

They made some really well built smartphones (both WP7 and Android) that would have been great and made Dell a proper competitor but they failed to update their devices at all. They pretty much released them and then forgot that they even existed. Same thing with their tablets.

Dell has the capability to be a major player in smartphones and tablets but they either half-arsed or skimped out on it.

That's why I said hopefully going private will allow them to focus more on their product lines and make quality products.

Luis Mazza said,

Dear, welcome to the past. Dell's decision is about the future.
Sleep thigh.


You'll sleep very tight tonight I bet, don't know what you've been smoking but the blind hatred towards Windows/Microsoft is strong in you.

Last quarter macs were down massively YOY

http://www.computerworld.com/s...c_shortages_cannibalization

Devices are selling and PCs including macs don't require replacement as often. Of course tablets will also run into the same situation in a few years. Tech is in a golden age and we really are starting to get super computers on the desktop and soon in your hand. This will reveal the sad truth that most people don't need super computers so a PC or Tablet will not get replaced until it dies, just like blenders and stoves and fridges

Shadowzz said,

You'll sleep very tight tonight I bet, don't know what you've been smoking but the blind hatred towards Windows/Microsoft is strong in you.

If my hate is any important to you... Then you can include Google's Chromebook and Apple's Mac Pro.
And you know what? What I really hate is stupidity and the underestimation of costumer's intelligence. That's exactly what these products do: they underestimate the user's ability to see that there are much better options available. But the problem here is: the Chromebook and the Mac Pro are examples of products that are not even 1% important to Google and Apple. But when you mess up with a whole ecosystem of user interfaces, like Microsoft did with Windows and all of it's software, not listening to the costumers needs and by putting it's commercial plans upfront, then the problem is huge. If they did this s***, they better fix it. You can call this hate or whatever you want. I call this move the stupidest thing a tech company has ever done in this f******* world.

MorganX said,
Not funny. Dell employs a lot of good people. Wish them well my friend.

Pretty sure his comment was directed at the failure that is Windows 8, not Dell employees. Of course you knew that and tried to deflect. wp, sir. Unfortunately Win8 is still a failure.

Actually I've engaged with Warwagon in Windows 8 debates quite a bit. An employer in trouble is not the place to gloat over lackluster Windows 8 sales because we have personal distaste for some or all of it.

Ultimately it is Microsoft's fault, but none should gloat about it, and by association, the deleterious affects it may have on business and their employees. This is one reason why we should not accept the shoddy Windows 8 software across the board that Microsoft has put forth for it's own agenda. But this is not the place to gloat IMO.