Discuss: One month after release, how do you feel about Windows 8 and Surface?


Windows 8 has now been out for a month. What are your thoughts on the operating system?

Now that Windows 8 and Surface have been out a month, Neowin wants to know what its readers think about the new operating system and tablet.

How have your experiences been with Microsoft's new releases? Have your opinions swayed at all, or do you still feel the same way about the products you did prior to their official release? This is your chance to voice your opinions about both Windows 8 and Surface (Windows RT included).

Topics related to the operating system – such as the current state of apps available or features that you feel are missing from the release (or features you love that were included) – are also up for discussion.

Let us know in the comments how you feel. Be as opinionated as you like, but do remember trolling and personal attacks will not be tolerated, regardless of how a user feels about the recent Microsoft releases.

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The search is really a downgrade.

I can't search for any shortcut file (.lnk) that is not in the Start Menu folder.
Tied of going into the details, check the posts

Posted the problem in 3 forums but no useful response from anyone:
http://answers.microsoft.com/e...2a72-41a0-9525-da9bae5e6f0d
http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...search-shortcuts-lnk-files/
http://www.eightforums.com/sof...rch-shortcut-files-lnk.html

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With Win 8 on a PC, I spend most of my time in the Desktop app.
I rarely visit the Start screen, I use Launchy instead.
The only other Metro app I do use is Mail.
To me there is no worth for the Metro half on the PC platform.

Still haven't installed on my PC (a VERY broke month for Dartholemew ...), so my opinion of the OS hasn't really changed.

BUT I finally made it to a Microsoft Store to check out the 8X and 920, but ended up FALLING IN LOVE with the Surface. Seriously, I even started to see the merits of the RT version! The device is simply wonderful (though not perfect). I want one ........... but still feel a tablet would be a luxury in my life right now more than a need.

Yes, I've become a lot more frugal and pratical in my old age ...

Loving it in Server 2012 form.

Love the new taskbar updates, the new task manager, the new explorer UI, the speed, the hyper-v improvements, the multi-monitor improvements, built in iso mounting and burning..etc.......

start menu.... I don't really miss the lack of it actually.... the improved features indicated above make it worth not having..

I think Windows 8 is a great product. There are a few issues that prevent it from being amazing. But I honestly think the new UI is much better than the old, even on desktop. I must say that my screen is only 17'' so perhaps the gestures arent as exhausting as for some of you on 27'' screens.

Which is why one of my improvements would be a 'desktop switch'. A switch that relocates the charms to the bottom of the screen (with the start charm in the left corner) as well as a button that opens the list of running aps. When it the classic desktop the taskbar should add to the charmbar. With the taksbar being full metro, as well as the rest of the classic desktop.

Having said that, I'm fine with the hidden UI as I enjoy full screen apps. For example I find IE10 in the modern UI a much better surfing experience because the pages look much better without 20 buttons and 10 tabs floating around it. But I understand how people with bigger screens feel like space is wasted. So with a few small changes they could make the modern UI more in line with expectations of desktop users.

Of course they also need to add features to the desktop UI that are currently only in the old UI. But this seems like easy additions to me. I suspect Microsoft removed as much options as possible just to get feedback on whats really necessary. For example there are 8 ways to get to a location in the old desktop, with each new version of Windows adding a new method. Windows was in need for a clean up but I do agree Microsoft took it too far. No doubt they'll add many features with comming updates to make it more function.

Never going to happen. And makes no sense after the steps they taken into the one size fits all.
Go with the flow, don't force against it.

You'll enjoy it more. Like all things ;-)

I honestly believe MS could save Win 8 with a few minor changes. Win 8 is essentially Win 7 with some great new Explorer features and unfortunately a clunky 1st gen touch UI forced on all users.

Win 8.1 could re-introduce a Start Menu, maybe a classic Win 7 version and an enhanced Win 8 version, along with the new Start Screen for those Fan Boys who basically bent over and chose the hard path.

Add an option to choose your UI style at the install. first login stage - Desktop for those of us that actually value the great Win 8 File Explorer, and Tablet UI for those on tablets and laptops that will only need a tile interface.

Win 9 could then add more features to File explorer for the main PC hub and a Win Phone 8 UI instead of the dodgy Win 8 'One size fits all' approach.

I would have so much respect for an MS that said they was wrong and adjusted to OS to fit its user base.


I've been a Mac user since 2005 and have been swayed back into the Windows ecosystem by Windows 8. I've been running the Previews and now an evalutation of the final product for some time. I've been using it exclusively for a little over a month.

The flow of working with the apps is so much improved over previous versions of Windows. The fact that the interface is consistent, no matter which device your run it on is the winning point for me. I'm currently waiting to get a Surface Pro when it's released. Also will be getting a Dell XPS 12 from my company.

It's even pushed me to trying out Windows Phone 8. I'll be getting a Lumia 920 in the next week or so.

Overall, it's been a great, refreshing experience for me.

Here's my take on the Surface:

I bought it, it was nice, games performance was subpar, frame rates dropped, choppy on most games.
The speakers SUCKED, can barely hear anything when watching Netflix unless I had headphones on. yes, i tried that "trick" to enable Loudness equalization but that was still an equivalent to maybe 40% volume level on an iphone.

Citrix does not work unless your company upgrades to Storefront which not many companies do. Why citrix MADE W8 RT to support this ONLY when iOS and Android works just fine with current offerings is beyond me. I couldn't use it for work at all.

nice thing is that it has Office and it was nice and fluent to use.

Some glitches when changing screens on bringing up on-screen menus, the screen flickers when the menus come up and go away. happened on every app. Sure this could be fixed with maybe a driver patch. no biggie.

Lack of "big player" apps. Pandora, Spotify come to mind. their music service was "ok"

The tablet version of IE had so many issues trying to render Flash content... where if I switched to the Desktop version, the page would come up just fine. It was a hit or miss.

The charging port is kinda weird, it doesn't just snap in place, you have to make sure you put it in right otherwise it hits the sides, goes in crooked, you name it, it's not an easy "snap" like Macbooks are. or the TouchCover for that matter.

The sound was glitchy most of the time, some games would have some sound, no sound or all sounds, and I'm not talking about different games, I'm talking about the same game.

I ended up returning it. I was mostly fed up with the speakers and the Citrix lack of support. it becomes an expensive toy if you don't use it for play AND work. TouchCover needs to drop in price, or generic ones to show up soon. I don't justify the $100-$120 for it but unfortunately it's kinda necessary because it's so much easier to type with it than the screen because it's wider than an ipad.

I'll see what the PRO version brings and what the price tag will be for that but I'm thinking it will be up there...

I love my Surface and wp8 phone, Nokia 920. I also have a laptop with win8 installed on it. You people who complain about a lack of a start button need to change. You do realize that this is a step towards a pc without a traditional desktop don't you? Its obvious MS couldn't do a pure move to the modern UI it isn't ready and neither are the millions of users who are used to the traditional windows desktop. Mark my words, the desktop is dead. Also, in a year, 80-90 percent of all pcs sold will have touchscreens.
My only issues with windows 8 are:

Music app is complete garbage, as a former Zuner, the music app on win8 is very clunky and lacks features(ability to buy or select multiple tracks for purchase, related artists tab, speed, ui...) im used to. IMO, MS needs to fix their core apps and make them shine and that should be the number 1 goal.

Well I was on the fence about Windows 8 until this weekend.
I installed a WiFi network printer from HP (PhotoSmart 5560).
By the time I finished the setup on the Printer, it asked me to insert the CD.

When I went to the devices list in the new control panel, I noticed my network printer was already installed, and so was the Modern app. This was true on all my Win8/RT PCs.

On my primary Win8 desktop I noticed that the device had some links to get the recommended app or visit the manufacturer's support site which took me to the exact page I needed to download and install the companion desktop software. On that page there were release notes that said the application and driver updates were released 4 days before retail availability of Windows 8.

This sort of zero touch install is why I would recommend Windows 8 to anyone who has struggled with doing simple things with their technology.

Now I'm a windows 8 advocate.

Typing on my Touch Cover right now.. I got my Surface about 2 weeks ago and I love the experience that comes with it. The build quality is amazing, and it goes far beyond a normal tablet. I print OTA, I watch Videos form flash-only sites on my tv via HDMI, I can easily Access files on my computer through network and I really get things done.
So far I've experienced no real limitations to my usual workflow. Of course, the built-in music-app needs work because it is way too slow, otherwise I love the fact that I can access almost any song without it using any of my space.
And apart from some minor bugs it IS THE tablet for me. Nevertheless I hope they'll fix some of those bugs but I am confident they will, regarding what they've done so far.

I'm really enjoying the apps and Windows 8 in general on my desktop. It has a few quirks, but overall so much more enjoyable for the average user. The technie in general isn't going to like.
I do wish they'd fix the Store, mine is constantly having trouble retrieving data and timing out, yet everything else has no problem finding the internet.

Small small annoying things, but overall it's just fine. Don't understand all the fuzz and rage.

Biggest gripe for now is the invisibility of my Homer Server in the MS Metro apps, and the way sound is managed between the desktop and Metro apps.

Funny thing is, after using my W8 laptop for a while, and using a lot of the Metro apps, I'm trying to close apps on the desktop by dragging to the bottom.
Some stuff is so easily picked up.

Dutchie64 said,
I'm trying to close apps on the desktop by dragging to the bottom.

haha, me too. Desktop IE got stuck twice, cause it would not close by dragging it to the bottom

I love my surface, love Windows 8 on my Desktop and my laptop and I agree with some of the other posts here, Neowin has a lot of whiny little bitches who can't fathom people actually enjoying the experience and cherry pick the most trivial of things to hate on.

I have used all versions of Windows since 3.11 until today. For a month now with Win8 on a laptop with mouse and touchpad. I try to stick mostly to the App-world, and I love it! There are of course some things that need to be improved (printing from Reader, easier access to volume, easier access to shutdown), but it's a great start!

CRage said,
I have used all versions of Windows since 3.11 until today.

Me 2 - have 8 on 2 desktops and 1 laptop - happy with all three. Ordered a Surface Tablet, cancelled order, decided to wait and see what the Pro version brings to the table.

Maybe ill get Hated for saying this...

My Expiriance with Windows 8 64bit Pro on a Desktop PC was great.

Like the Indipendant approach of Apps and DesktopApps. In term of Multi-Tasking ill Love it!

Have my Facebook - Twitter - MsN - Kontakt App on the Right + My Desktop Running my Browser on the Left and Writing Text on Word on the Desktop Right. Ill love to write and do research and this opened another Door 4 me. ^^

Now it got even better: Im using Start8 that Boots directly on to Desktop Mode and using the Modern Start Button to lounch my Apps. That is sooooo handy and ill perform faster becouse i dont need to switch from Start App Mode to Desktop Mode.

In terms of PC Performance ill find Windows 8 snappier then Windows 7...

The Suface is a must have for me since my Company thinks that it could minimize the Cost of Laptop and Tablet all in one. Plus having them both inside our Company network was a little of a chalange with the Ipad and Notebook...

Plus the Horsepower the Surface Pro has it would satisfy my needs... ^^

Great job Microsoft.

I like it. I have the best of both worlds, though, I 99% of my time on the desktop. Get a touch mouse (which I have) or a trackpad and things will be better for the touch parts.

I like Windows 8 for what it is : the start of a journey to a new destination. Windows 7 was a culmination of all the work done and lessons learnt since Windows 95, with small changes along the way so people felt comfortable (although many accused MS of pandering to backwards compatibility and should start afresh)
Windows 8 is Microsoft trying to transition its users from desktops and laptops to new form factors, and according to latest figures sales of both desktops and laptops are losing to tablets - so they may have a point.
Is Windows 8 perfect? Nope. Will it improve, in much the same way that Windows releases have nearly always done (barring a few missteps)? Hopefully.

Right now, MS is in a storm. May be Windows 8 will lead us to an awesome OS. But, with Sinofsky out, we don't really have a clue where Windows 8 is leading us. May be MS will decide to cut the whole Metro branch and start a new one.
For example, Microsoft suddenly killed Sliverlight.

I think win 8 has split the fanbase up and caused a war.
coming from a unified love of win 7 where we were all together.
and this has caused a lot of misinformation to be spread constantly..
bordering on personal attacks often.
If someone doesn't like ? the usual response is something like
get over it they arn't bringing the start menu back...
but usually with a far more mouthy aggressive tone lol
which says to me a lot of people are hearing what they want
and acting ignorant. Assuming a lot, such as how other people are supose to use their machines.
eg. do it like me or your stupid.. kinda crap from people
For example not everyone wants to memorize and have to use key combo's
to do what use to be easy.. and if you think about isn't that a step backward for this revolutionary unified interface that is win 8 ? Defeats the purpose when they pushing touch screen crap and people are constantly giving advice on learning how to use key combo's.

The windows 8 concept is a flawed concept. If it was a good idea they would have done it sooner.
Unifying it all is just leading to short comings on different platforms.
Its the same concept of trying to please everyone means you please no one..

Windows 8 to me makes me think of users in denial, they will say anything to defend it.
And that makes for some rather interesting comments in how far people will go to make Windows 8 seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

The writing is on the wall.. an obviously large amount of people hate it with a passion.
despite all the people telling them their idiots or using it wrong etc.

Edited by I am Not PCyr, Nov 27 2012, 10:49am :

Windows 8 is the same than the Ribbon interface. The first ribbon (Office 2007) pretty much was an useless pile of crap. However, and only 3 years later, MS launched Office 2010 with a ribbon that works fine. IMHO, MS did it on purpose, first pushed a technology with flags and years later they sold the same technology but with all features fixed. MS can't claim that they don't know about the problems (or unlike) about the Metro interface, in the public beta, most people claimed against it. Windows 8 is just a long marketing campaign for Windows 9.

My feelings on it are the same. Like the performance increase, don't like the lack of glass or the start screen.

I've never been one to follow opinion and like to form my own. I tried windows 8 for a month and I didn't like it. I felt the switching between the start screen and desktop to jarring/annoying. Didn't like the gestures and found no use for the metro apps. These are all formed from using windows 8 on my desktop. I liked the windows 8 phone I tried and I haven't yet tried the surface. I'll be sticking to windows 7 for a while and wait to see what windows 9 offers

Personally, when I used the evaluation copy, I found windows 8 to be quite useful, and I found myself to be more productive within it. A more visual-based user environment was perfect for me, considering that I'm dyslexic, and that I find navigating and identifying with images more intuitive than searching through text.

I'm not sure whether this is just because my brain is more visually geared, and I would be interested to know whether people with similar reading disabilities find Windows 8 more usable, once you get used to its quirks of course.

I would say however, there are some things that do annoy me, sutch as the modern UI Control Panel, for It does not have as much control as I would have expected. Throwing the user into the desktop environment to do advanced tasks is not so bad in a desktop environment. But I would think that on a tablet, this will be quite jarring and disruptive.

Neutering the modern UI version of Internet Explorers Flash capabilities was also a bad move by Microsoft. Especially considering how Flash support was once an attractive selling point with android devices. Some people hated it, but for people who wanted it they had that choice.

It is fun to use Windows 8. It is fast , secure and UI is less distracting.

And for Start Screen , I use Start Screen to open apps , I didn't use to with Start Menu . I guess this pinning of apps in Start Screen in a nice iconic manner , and not seeing it again for long time kills the necessity of having a Dock or pinning tonnes of applications to taskbar/superbar.


Secondly , I also love the search function , it helps me find the apps rightaway ,and/or any information on a click away. I type say " Mathematics " and click Wikipedia in search , it tells me the details faster than opening a browser , going to wikipedia/using wikipedia on searchbar/using Firefox keywords etc.


The live tiles help you know whether you have any unread mail or chat. Also the weather can be known without even opening the application! I use the mail a lot to read mail , it is way faster than again opening a browser and visiting Gmail or Outlook etc. The notifications on new emails are just awesome! I have a unified notification system now , for chats (IM+ app) and Emails which don't look clumsy or sit in system tray..

Overall , although I still use 2 apps or so (And Jetpack Joy Ride!) , I have gotten used to Metro Apps. I often just play Jetpack Joy Ride and multitask , with IM+ to chat. Or open a Test Paper in PDF Reader and again dock the chat to the 1/3rd screen. Now you can say you could do it with traditional windows as well, but then it helps me focus now , I don't minimize Reader and open Facebook Or gaze at my wallpaper and feel like changing , it takes the fullscreen and I concentrate well (even though m chatting ...). In fact I believe you don't really use more than 2 apps at a time , while many apps at different intervals of time.

Anyways I do believe that Windows 7 users aren't lacking something great by skipping Windows 8 , they can still live on 7 , however Windows 8 just feels great and has potential , once even more apps will enter the store.

My above experience was on a Desktop , where I find it easy to open a tab of news site or two on browser than to open an app for it. However , on a Tablet or convertible Ultrabook , this might not be same

For me it's mostly like using Windows 7, but better (faster, smoother, less of a resource hog, etc.). And now that the trackpad on my L502X supports gestures for Metro, it's even better! Even got used to the new Start Screen (which I hate, because now I have to go to work and use Win7 with it's mini Start menu )

been loving it, dont think i could go back to 7, never used the start menu anyways, allways found it to be a pain

I'm using 8 on a desktop. Only reason I haven't gone back to 7 is start 8.
I only use the desktop configured like a Windows 7 machine and almost never go into the Metro part. The file copy and performance improvements are most welcome though.

been experimenting with Windows 8 since the early days- I'm still waiting for the "Dazzle me!", it's more a fizzle after months of use on a high end desktop - 4 cores @4.8ghz + 16GB Ram + Sata3 SSD - navigation needs some work and the claims of "it is faster" is more a David Copperfield illusion than actual speed, the Start screen appears early in the boot process but it is loading for quite a few seconds longer before the OS is usable - neat trick!
3D applications definitely run better on Windows 7 with scene rendering marginally faster than Windows 8 and using multi monitors can be so annoying.
still playing with it but I will never have it as my main OS

is there a point in commenting that i really like the system on my non-touch laptop and on the surface as well or i'll get swarmed by whiny little b_tches who never used it on any quality rig just parroting the crap fed to them?

morden said,
is there a point in commenting that i really like the system on my non-touch laptop and on the surface as well or i'll get swarmed by whiny little b_tches who never used it on any quality rig just parroting the crap fed to them?

well there isn't much point in commenting if your going to be a huge insulting jerk about it..
your comment has no value to me because it doesn't actually say anything..
its pretty much just a vague and generic insult to anyone that doesn't like windows 8.
Never mind the assumptions. Like nobody used it or how people are all dumb and get fed what to think.

I am using Win 8 on my desktop. Runs great but I do have a few gripes.
1. If I open an app or program from the START screen, why am I not returned to the START screen. To hell with the extra keystrokes MS, fix the damn thing.
2. Search. Why do I have to select Apps, Settings or Files. Just find the lot and display the results. Large screen filled with No search results. Crap!
3. I have no way to select where to install Apps. Using a SSD drive with documents, videos, photos etc on another drive. Some of the games are quite large. The app developers will lose out as I don't intend to fill up my drive or buy a larger one.
4. Miss the clock on the START screen. Tried a number of live tiles from the store but they managed to fill about a quarter of a large tile. Help, I'm going blind from squinting!!

Been using Windows 8 on my desktop and laptop for a couple of weeks, once you've got Start8 installed its quite good and perfectly usable. Was tempted by the surface but decided the RT is too limiting so waiting for the Pro. If its good could potentially replace my iPad and MBA with a single device

They are part of my normal life now. I don't even notice the start button is missing. Well I don't even use it before anyway. All my software/games are either on desktop or taskbar. Whatever I do before with Win7, I can do now in Win8.

I feel I have had to make so many compromises in order to use it. After giving the new start screen a three week trial i ended up purchasing a start menu replacement and i hate adding extra software to get the basics. I love the new file explorer but more features are still needed. I won't be updating my other computers, Win 7 does what's needed, it doesn't have the new file explorer features but it does mean i don't have to buy more third party start menu replacements. Win 7, File Explorer and an option to boot into a Win Phone 7 UI on tablets would have been amazing but not this uncompromising mash up.

I don't see the point in it for myself. There's hardly anything new to make it better than 7 except the one major change being the start screen, and I don't even use the start menu in 7 so for me it's pointless. Not saying it's bad or anything, but for me, there's no reason to be exited about it.

The only thing I don't like is how it's a hybrid OS. Sure you can argue about how you can use the mouse/keyboard on the start screen, which works fine, but there are some instances where it doesn't work as expected. Also I don't like some inconsistencies. Click the volume in the systray and it brings up the old volume menu rather than the metro volume control, however click the network icon in the systray and you get the metro sidebar and not the old network flyout. Either go one way, or the other, not half and half.

Not a fan. Will not be installing it on any of my personal PC's and we are not deploying it on any of our Corporate computers at work either (~2500 machines).

I have used the dev preview, CP and RTM version; my opinion hasn't changed. Add a GP to disable all of the metro garbage then we can talk.

Have it, use it, love it. Laptop, Surface, HTPC, and dev desktop. I use metro apps as much as possible when I'm not coding. Love the clean simplicity. Win 8 is amazing on a touch device. The OS apps need a lot of work, but not surprised due to v1.0 software. Desktop screams and love the boot times. RT serves its purpose for me on my Surface with many advantages over rival tablets ...No regrets whatsoever. I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of high profile apps, but expect them to be on there way shortly.

Everyone here needs to learn the Win key shortcuts when on non-touch devices. I used them a lot in Win 7, so it's been an easy transition for me. My biggest advice to the Windows team would be a) replicate Win Phone functionality better b) Add tutorial popups for new users c) Add an option for touch vs no touch modes to appease the userbase.

I love Win8 on my Acer W500 tablet. It runs fine and is very responsive.

It did take me some time to adjust to Windows 8 on my desktop though. After a few weeks I have no gripes and rarely ever hit the new Start screen. Not because I hate it, but because most of what I do still draws from the standard desktop. I hit the start screen periodically to play some solitaire or other casual game, but that is rare as I mentioned above because I usually play them on my tablet.

I still question the value of the start screen on a non-touch device, but I have yet to encounter a situation that makes me want to rollback to Windows 7.

Loving windows 8, not sure why theres such a massive uproar about it "unfriendly for mice and keyboard" ? It's not like you have to use the metro interface... I find myself spending about 80% of my time in the desktop interface. Very happy with it.

Ben920 said,
Loving windows 8, not sure why theres such a massive uproar about it "unfriendly for mice and keyboard" ? It's not like you have to use the metro interface... I find myself spending about 80% of my time in the desktop interface. Very happy with it.

It's a fair statement. I'll explain why.

Desktop is legacy now. You might spend 80% of your time in desktop, but that's where your apps are. It's kind of like saying Windows 3.1 apps run fine on Windows 95... without critiquing the full and complete Windows 95 interface.

It's a leveraged approach. Application development is in Metro/Modern now, and your desktop familiarity is legacy. If you don't embrace Metro for what it is, and critique it now, you may never have a chance later. Don't operate on the assumption that the desktop will always be there. After all, Microsoft just made one horribly arrogant decision, so the precedent is there.

I am not using any metro apps, but I do like the type and search function. Other than that I spend most of my time on the desktop. Seems that it runs a bit faster on a SSD disk than Windows 7 or is it only me?

Can't stand Windows 8.

Start screen is a collection of gadgets which is about as exciting as looking at beeping, flashing, fancy medical equipment. Looks cool for about 5 minutes. Then you realize you actually want to do something, and all your fancy "Live Tiles" are gone.

Washed out colors, giving me the real impression of lowest-common-denominator system. I'm all for low-tech (command line junkie here) but to have something deliberately look poor annoys me.

If windows 8 knows my hardware, why does everything have to be oversized like I'm a five year old kid learning to read, that I can't move my mouse to hit a target I could easily click in Windows 7? Sure, it's built for touch, but I don't have touch. Are you telling me seriously that I have to suffer for that? Where is my UI theme that is specifically for mouse/keyboard users -- you know, like the entire corporate environment?

Why am I scrolling up and down to move the start screen left and right, again, with my mouse? And how is listing everything on this widely expansive and bling-worthy screen somehow better? Why can't I see my running programs in the background when I'm trying to start something new?

Why are all metro apps fullscreen? Seriously ... just ... why? Ugly as all hell on huge monitors.

mram said,
Can't stand Windows 8.

Start screen is a collection of gadgets which is about as exciting as looking at beeping, flashing, fancy medical equipment. Looks cool for about 5 minutes. Then you realize you actually want to do something, and all your fancy "Live Tiles" are gone.

Washed out colors, giving me the real impression of lowest-common-denominator system. I'm all for low-tech (command line junkie here) but to have something deliberately look poor annoys me.

If windows 8 knows my hardware, why does everything have to be oversized like I'm a five year old kid learning to read, that I can't move my mouse to hit a target I could easily click in Windows 7? Sure, it's built for touch, but I don't have touch. Are you telling me seriously that I have to suffer for that? Where is my UI theme that is specifically for mouse/keyboard users -- you know, like the entire corporate environment?

Why am I scrolling up and down to move the start screen left and right, again, with my mouse? And how is listing everything on this widely expansive and bling-worthy screen somehow better? Why can't I see my running programs in the background when I'm trying to start something new?

Why are all metro apps fullscreen? Seriously ... just ... why? Ugly as all hell on huge monitors.


Pathetic to see that you blame Microsoft for your lack of taste.
Metro apps look super sexy, on any type of monitor. Getting sick of this.

Jarrichvdv said,

Pathetic to see that you blame Microsoft for your lack of taste.
Metro apps look super sexy, on any type of monitor. Getting sick of this.

Taste is a matter of opinion.

Lets assume you have a 1900x1200 monitor, which is pretty cheap nowadays. Fire up IE10 in metro and look at the Neowin homepage.

Is it Neowin's fault that the web site is fixed width? No. That's been the standard forever on the internet. The massive waste of space to the left and right of the content is highly annoying.

It's a huge ugly waste of space, and that's just one example of it.

(For the record, the site is pretty, it's how Metro fullscreens every application which makes it ugly or at the very least, really rather inefficient.)

As another example, weather: The weather app on my 1900x1200 screen isn't much better than my phone. But why the hell do I need a monumentally huge fullscreen weather app?

And yes, you can split the screen up to thirds. But still, it's horrific on the waste of space.

mram said,

Taste is a matter of opinion.

Lets assume you have a 1900x1200 monitor, which is pretty cheap nowadays. Fire up IE10 in metro and look at the Neowin homepage.

Is it Neowin's fault that the web site is fixed width? No. That's been the standard forever on the internet. The massive waste of space to the left and right of the content is highly annoying.

It's a huge ugly waste of space, and that's just one example of it.

(For the record, the site is pretty, it's how Metro fullscreens every application which makes it ugly or at the very least, really rather inefficient.)

As another example, weather: The weather app on my 1900x1200 screen isn't much better than my phone. But why the hell do I need a monumentally huge fullscreen weather app?

And yes, you can split the screen up to thirds. But still, it's horrific on the waste of space.


You want that the website takes up every pixel of your screen? Well that'd be user-friendly.

/s

Many space is not used, but that's not a problem? You really want to be able to place 3 websites next to each other so that Oooh! all your pixels are used!

Jarrichvdv said,

You want that the website takes up every pixel of your screen? Well that'd be user-friendly.

/s

Many space is not used, but that's not a problem? You really want to be able to place 3 websites next to each other so that Oooh! all your pixels are used!

No, I want to be able to look at a website and do other things. Things being plural. I don't want one bonus application taking up a third of my screen. I, like many corporate users, have many applications open doing, you know, work.

I feel about the same way as I did before. Happy with what I have for now, but will continue to keep and eye on how things progress.

I don't have any touch devices so I installed Windows 8 on my nearly two year old desktop. It's stable and runs fantastic. I haven't done any benchmarks but I don't think it's a stretch to say it's running faster than my copy of Windows 7 Ultimate.

I didn't have any problems with Win7, my system was already stable and capable of doing everything I wanted/needed it to. However, I was incredibly intrigued by Windows 8 since the dev preview and decided to take the plunge. I've been using it since release, and like I said, I'm having a great time with it.

But, full confession, I did in fact cheat by buying a touchpad. The Logitech T650, to be exact. It was a bit pricey, but IMO, it's the best thing next to having an actual Windows 8 tablet and superior to the touchpads on newer Windows 8 laptops.

Using a mouse really just felt like I was running Windows 7 only with a larger start screen. Switching to a touchpad really brought Windows 8 alive for me. The biggest improvement being that I don't have to drag my mouse to numerous corners on the screen. I can make a quick touch gesture and quickly get to the start menu no matter where my cursor is on the screen. A quick swipe from the edge and I can quickly switch between open apps. Scrolling, as you would expect, is far superior with a touchpad. I did have to sacrifice a bit of accuracy but my mouse is still nearby the next time I have to photoshop a picture.

As for Windows 8 itself, I must say, I am kind of surprised how quickly I adopted to using apps from the Microsoft Store. I'm more likely to use the Hulu app, ESPN, or Weather despite having complete access to the regular websites. It's because of convenience. The Hulu app is clean, easy to navigate, plus I can dock it to the side and continue watching my video while I open another app or use the desktop.

Live tiles, along with my touchpad, makes it so convenient to check updates. A quick touch gesture and I can see all my email, social, calendar, sports, and weather updates without opening another window. Another quick swipe and I'm right back to the program I was working in. I can't speak for everyone, but that's cool to me and I hope other people take advantages of live tiles.

That's not to say everything is perfect. Apps like Mail, Xbox Music, SkyDrive and several others still need a little bit more time in the oven. PC Settings and Control Panel need to be implemented better. Apps docked to the side should auto update. Exactly what is a Microsoft Account needs to be less ambiguous. For example, I wasn't aware that signing in with a Microsoft Account would prevent me from using another account. Imagine my surprise when I switched from a Local to a Microsoft Account and then realized that the video I purchased on Xbox Video wasn't available because I used a different email account than the one that's associated with my Microsoft Account.

But as a whole I feel that Windows 8 is a step in the right direction. Most importantly, I feel it's a necessary step. The industry is moving towards inexpensive touch devices and that's where Microsoft needs to be. PC sales are down, tablets are climbing and Microsoft's biggest rivals, Apple and Google, will absolutely devour the portable market unless Microsoft does something. Sure, people will still be using desktops for a long time, but it's a shrinking category and Microsoft will shrink right along with it unless they do something. Not adapting to a changing market is exactly why companies like RIM and Nokia are struggling now.

Formatted my Sony Vaio with Windows 7 and installed Windows 8

The first few days I was tempted to format and go back to windows 7....but 1 month later I'm still using Win 8. Laptop isn't a touch screen so I rarely use the Metro interface (mordern UI or whatever BS they keep changing the name too)

The Windows Store is seriously lacking in apps and looks. Desktop works fine but the UI isn't as smooth as Windows 7

We actually bought 2 Surfaces in the family, and overall we are extremely happy about this purchase. In our view, this tablet redefines the category and is much better than iPad or Android. This is a desktop grade OS running on tablet and not a Phone OS running on tablet, big difference that people fail to notice.

As a touch interface, the Windows 8 screen is easy to use but quite powerful. I use it in landscape mode, and can access most of the functions just using my thumbs. It is quite natural, the same way we use laptops (Phones are portrait, like other tablets). Swipe with left thumb to go back or change tasks and swipe with right to go home page or do search. Swipe and hold for having two applications on the screen. The split screen keyboard is handy. Also like the way tiles can be grouped, and use Symantec zoom to access applications quickly.

The big differentiating factor is the availability of desktop, with Microsoft office and desktop grade utilities such as file manager, disk manager, task manager, etc. People complain about this two UI's that are available, but fail to understand that each has a purpose. Touch cannot replace mouse/keyboard and vice versa. Each has it advantages and disadvantages. Surface provides both, and that drives the no compromise experience. The desktop mode is mouse and keyboard friendly, we can work with dozen of windows open and use it just like a PC.

The device is used by my kids, so multi-user login and family safety is big advantage over other tablets. I can control total time spent, applications and web site access.

Lastly, both my Sony and Canon cameras work just fine with the USB port and so does my HP8500 printer. The out of box device support is not available on any other tablet.

Almost everyone that I demoed the unit went and bought themselves this tablet, some die hard iPad fans acknowledge that this is much better tablet in many areas.

This is highly recommended product, just ignore what tech reviewers are writing about it (they are paid to write one way or other). Try and make your own opinion, you will not regret.

Typing this on desktop running win8. Fast, rock solid, with app store on top that gets bigger by the day - what's not to like? Best $40 I spent this year. I want less desktop apps and more metro. Sick and tired hunting and downloading crapware from the internet. Last week installed freaking Filezilla - spent 15 minutes maneuvering through "DOWNLOAD NOW" buttons for all kind of crap I don't need, had to cancel at least two downloads triggered by accident. This sucks - desktop apps horribly broken. Yes, sure if all you use is set of specialized tools it doesn't matter what OS to use. You can start them from DOS just fine. For everyday use I want app store, where I can get an app I need. So no, I don't want XP on my home PC. At work - no one asks me anyway. But at home I want the best, and app store plus speed plus lots of small desktop improvement put win8 over win7 any day. And sorry but I do use metro even on desktop without touch screen. Shocking, I know. Browser, tweeter, video, email, reading, games - lots of stuff work great in metro. And I can find and install what I need in seconds, literally. This is HUGE for me, and for any normal people who want hassle-free computing. Sure it's not perfect, V1, transitional, etc. etc. - still it is already better than anything I use, including Linux and OSX. When it becomes seamless across phone/tablet/pc/tv, and it will, it blows everything else out of the way. And if your religion does not forbid everything M$ - you can enjoy it already. It is good. Just open your mind and don't be afraid. You can do it.

I like it, but maybe that's just because I've had enough time to get used to it (been using it on my laptop since the DP)
I'll agree that it has some problems (why can't I search everything at once?!?!) but the benefits (WinRT, having a dedicated store, the speed improvements, etc.) outweigh the problems for me.

StartScreen: I absolutely love it. Getting rid of the Start Menu has given me new and better ways of doing things. I love that I can minimize the desktop.

ModernUI Apps: Leave a lot to be desired in my opinion. They take form-over-function to the extreme. IE10 on a non-tablet device is a nightmare. Massive toolbars and menus coming at you from every direction and there is f*ck-all for actual customization. The Store app is like looking through an old Fingerhut catalog on a microfiche. It's going to take them a long time and a lot of dev support to be able to bring these up to snuff if they ever hope of making RT a viable platform.

ModernUI creeping into the desktop: It seems like token touches of Modern UI rather than actual integration. The graphics don't match and you're left with something less functional than what's already there i.e. Wireless Manager. Someone made an excellent mockup of how to integrate the two.

I dont feel any difference now, but i felt when i upgraded for few days perhaps
Anyway I dont like start screen, not useful for desktop based, and file chooser in the metro apps is plain BS. I bought Start8 and Fences, so its cool now.

Certainly performance wise, windows 8 beats windows 7 for me.. start up and shut down time is great.

Over all great, but not this we expect after 3 years of development.

I couldn't go back to the useless and archaic start menu for all the money in the world. I'm glad they got rid of that crap and gave me something that I can run my stuff much faster.

I know there's a lot of noobs out there that think its hard to use or confusing but they will get it eventually, just takes longer for the slow kids then most.

Colin McGregor said,
I couldn't go back to the useless and archaic start menu for all the money in the world. I'm glad they got rid of that crap and gave me something that I can run my stuff much faster.

I know there's a lot of noobs out there that think its hard to use or confusing but they will get it eventually, just takes longer for the slow kids then most.

wow ignorant and condescending..

i like how everything revolves around the start menu.
that is THE reason you say why you won't go back ?

ughh i'm not gonna bother with you AGAIN
the usual people hammering away with the usual crap.. nothing new
no point in trying to be mature and respond to what you said exactly because the usual fanboy crew around here at newoin, hear what they want and not what was actually said.

been using windows 8 on my desktop and laptop since launch. amazing software. I like the metro side of it, but I definitely live on the desktop most often due to my screen's lack of touch capability. regardless, I think the start screen is fine.

I love my Surface. I have yet to take the time to install Windows 8 onto my desktop as I haven't had the time to reinstall everything else, but I adore my Surface and Windows 8.

It is--without question--more useful than my iPad ever was. In particular, it's split-screen multitasking on the tablet is far superior to the iPad for things like Skype.

My iPad 3 has not been touched since a few days after I got my Surface on release day. But Ing able bodied o view flash videos that have not yet converted to HTML5 was good, but being able to download files, edit files in a real word processor (pages is equivalent to WordPad, and costs $15) and spreadsheet app, browse network shares, use my 64GB SD card, develop apps using real developer tools not irritating toys (xcode), and I am quite happy.

yes, there are a few rough edges and a few annoyances, but compared to the iPad, which has Ben out for years and has not fixed the annoyances, and has many rough edges, but still is not as powerful, I will chose the Surface any day.

Have it installed on a partition, I sometimes play with it but it will never ever replace my Windows 7 setup. The touchscreen metro UI and the whatever touch optimized apps don't really fit on a regular desktop, kinda makes the keyboard & mice redundant although they can still be used, it just doesn't feel right. I'll surely use it on a tablet but Microsoft should really have released a Desktop version. Windows 8 has some nice new features and I would have switched in a second if they gave me the option to disable all the touchscreen nonsense. The start screen is an inconvenience. Having full-screen apps on a desktop is a huge, pointless step back, it makes no sense on a large screen. And why all those bold colors? A Desktop and a Tablet have DIFFERENT UI needs, there was really no need to alienate the desktop, turning it into an App pinned in the Start Screen.

Running two different paradigms in the same system makes it seem bi-polar and cumbersome. The Metro nonsense is like a tablet system running on-top of regular PC system and this makes me no sense. Why would I need fullscreen touch Apps on my PC?

yowanvista said,
Have it installed on a partition, I sometimes play with it but it will never ever replace my Windows 7 setup. The touchscreen metro UI and the whatever touch optimized apps don't really fit on a regular desktop, kinda makes the keyboard & mice redundant although they can still be used, it just doesn't feel right. I'll surely use it on a tablet but Microsoft should really have released a Desktop version. Windows 8 has some nice new features and I would have switched in a second if they gave me the option to disable all the touchscreen nonsense. The start screen is an inconvenience. Having full-screen apps on a desktop is a huge, pointless step back, it makes no sense on a large screen. And why all those bold colors? A Desktop and a Tablet have DIFFERENT UI needs, there was really no need to alienate the desktop, turning it into an App pinned in the Start Screen.

Running two different paradigms in the same system makes it seem bi-polar and cumbersome. The Metro nonsense is like a tablet system running on-top of regular PC system and this makes me no sense. Why would I need fullscreen touch Apps on my PC?

Amen to this! If they only gave an option say in the Professional version to disable all that Metro nonsense, they would have made over $1000 just from my household.

Played with the Surface for about 3 hours and believe it has some potential. It will struggle no doubt for a few years if Microsoft can hang on. Windows 8 on the other hand, needs major changes. I've used it since March and to this day I don't believe it's a worthy upgrade from Windows 7. My thought on Windows 8, "WTF were they thinking"?

Microsoft still has work to do on the Music and Video Apps, as well as some polishing of their other included Apps. I assume that with the departure of Sinofsky these will now get the focus they deserve.

Instead of being a showcase of the great features of the service, they are sadly a bad implementation of the Xbox interface, when they instead should have modeled the WP7 experience that is impressive.

The Live Tiles are nice, even if you don't 'use' the Applications, it is handy to see tweets, customized news, weather, your sports team and tons of other information instantly on the start screen at a glance.

(People that are completely avoiding the Modern UI are missing out on a lot of nice features from pinning friends to follow their tweets/facebook to creating a custom news search in Bing News and pinning it to have the headlines on the Start Screen.)

We have yet to encounter any clients or users that have not liked Windows 8 after a few minutes of explaining the power of the new features in Windows 8 that are not obvious. (Yes Microsoft should offer better introduction videos to address power users, as you can do a lot more in Windows 8 than you can in Windows 7 if you are truly a power user.)

Performance is still ahead of Windows 7 in all tests, with gaming performance speeds increasing with each update of drivers from AMD/NVidia. Game load times and the caching system of Windows 8 shows in gaming with all the revisions and optimizations that make it even smarter than Windows 7 in predicting what to pull ahead of time.

Stability/Security - Windows 7 was already rock solid, Windows 8 just builds on this, with the OS even compensating for failing hardware in ways Windows 7 was unable. The PAC and the realtime call checking system is brilliant and if an Application is poorly written, a few runs later Windows 8 will learn the flaw and compensate for it, allowing software that was unusable on Windows 7 capable of working.


With all OSes there are things that need to be addressed, like the Music/Video Apps, but most of these are tiny things that can be address in App updates and OS updates. Since these issues are specific to Windows 8 only features, Windows 7 users will not have to compromise by moving to Windows 8.

My laptop and desktop are used for serious personal work, involving extensive data entry via Office and other applications, so I can make money to support myself. Neither Windows-8 nor Surface are viable alternatives or relevant. Even more so, since my hardware works very well and is fully paid. Why throw out perfectly good hardware and software?

Lord Method Man said,
Tried repeatedly to use/like Windows 8. It sucks on a desktop, period.

Agree! Decent on the tablet with some tweaks here and there, but on the desktop, it actually slows me down!

Lord Method Man said,
Tried repeatedly to use/like Windows 8. It sucks on a desktop, period.

Just love it on desktop and tablets, period!

still1 said,
abandoning windows 8

wait - you are telling me that the guy who promotes Linux and bashes all versions of Windows (and really, anything Microsoft) every chance he gets is abandoning Windows? I am shocked!

nohone said,

wait - you are telling me that the guy who promotes Linux and bashes all versions of Windows (and really, anything Microsoft) every chance he gets is abandoning Windows? I am shocked!

you failed to read the number he typed in after the two words..
yeah I'm shocked too.. how do you misread a two word sentence ?

I'm a fan. Definitely don't see what all the negativity is about. Though my day-to-day exp. lies mostly with the RP. Haven't gotten around to upgrading yet.

Well, I've had Win 8 longer than a month actually and I like it. The boot up times, changes to task manager, rotating tiles, all work fine. Media Center is much faster in Win 8 than it was in 7. It was tough getting used to the absence of a start button/menu but I learned how to search in the start screen and use it moreso than the search function in Win 7.

I thought Win8 was alright, but I eventually went back to Win7 for one reason.. The Perpetual Loop of Death aka Preparing Automatic Repair, which cannot be disabled or skipped even when you tell the advanced startup options to go into safemode / disable automatic repair. System File Checker is obsolete in Windows 8. Rather than reinstall it and risk encountering this again, I went back to Win7.

I find myself mostly using the desktop on my Laptop computer, and mostly using metro apps when on my Surface. However, there are a few metro games and apps that I do use when on my desktop, like Twitter, Netflix, Remote Desktop (metro) and a few others.

My biggest gripe is no Silverlight in the browser. So much of the Windows help videos are in Silverlight. All of my companies LOB applications are in Silverlight. Even the BUILD 2012 conference was broadcasted live using Silverlight. That just blew my mind that I couldn't get any of that Microsoft-produced content on a Microsoft tablet.

I used to hate the fact that the desktop was jut an app that could be closed or hidden. However, after actually using it for a month I now prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7. I don't know if this was their intention, but I love that all my serious work is there on the desktop and I can hide it while I go to the Start screen to enjoy games, apps, etc.. My work is still there, safe, waiting for me. When I'm ready to resume I just click that desktop live tile and boom, it's back just where I left it. Very nice. With Windows 7 all those icky work-related windows are always open all the time cluttering up my experience,

This is why I don't understand all the hate for 8. This is the direction they should have gone in after XP. I love love love that I can literally minimize my "important" stuff and fiddle around in simple stuff until I need to get back. Having Excel sheets, calculator, IE, etc. open while wanting to take a break and check the weather? Gah!

kinect_dev said,
I used to hate the fact that the desktop was jut an app that could be closed or hidden. However, after actually using it for a month I now prefer Windows 8 to Windows 7. I don't know if this was their intention, but I love that all my serious work is there on the desktop and I can hide it while I go to the Start screen to enjoy games, apps, etc.. My work is still there, safe, waiting for me. When I'm ready to resume I just click that desktop live tile and boom, it's back just where I left it. Very nice. With Windows 7 all those icky work-related windows are always open all the time cluttering up my experience,

Yeah, that's exactly how I use it too. The desktop is for "projects" (not necessarily "work" per se, but complex, focused, goal-directed activity), the new style of apps are for just messing around on the computer (or checking something really quick). Since I tend to do a lot of both on my laptop this works well for me, and with how new-style apps being isolated and suspended when not in use, they won't interfere with projects or slow down my computer, even if I randomly install a ton of them from the app store.

I had the Samsung 700 tablet with windows 8 installed and I installed 8 on my work laptop and my desktop at home, took a bit to get used to but after the hump its really sweet, how everything syncs up. I have quicken installed using the skydrive app and I can run it from my pc or my laptop. that's something I could never do before. I got the surface a few days after the release and at first I thought it was a little slow but now I don't think so at all. I havent turned on the Samsung in about a month, I carry the surface with me every where.. and the battery will last like 3 days ! that's sick. I do miss outlook on the surface but I can live without. and I find myself on the desktop all the time on the PC and the laptop so its really just like using windows 7 .. all my friends have been over and used my machines and most really like it and have installed it on their own machines. some are confused with it but most love it. but my biggest surprises are my dad at 82, Mom and my father-in-law and mother in-law they like it the most and they don't use touch. I thought they would really hate it but after about 10 min of showing them how to get around the are amazed at how fast it is and the fact they can now use xbox to play games and download apps and stuff LOL.. but really they Love it... its nuts.

I would like to tell you how i fell about the Surface. The problem is i've yet to see any Surface in a store or anyone using it.

Like the Zune in Canada the Surface is a no show. It's just not there for now. It doesn't exist in Quebec, Canada.

I'll tell you how i feel about it when i'll see one in a store or when i'll see someone using one. But don't hold your breath like the Zune it might never actually happen.

Interested enough to try it...twice. Uninstalled within days both times. Hopeful it improves quickly as there's a lot of features I'd like to have. This will likely be the most despised version of windows to date but because they have hostage sales, the numbers won't reflect it.

I like the improvements to Windows 8, but I can't bring myself to recommend it to anyone. The apps out of the box almost all have something wrong with them. I tend to stay on the desktop. Metro looks nice, but that's about it. It's not as productive as doing things on the desktop.

I do, however really enjoy the snap interface of some applications like Skype and the notifications for new mail on the top-right with sound built in.

Maybe when MS gets it together and fixes their apps and more apps start getting developed for windows 8 metro then I'll change my tune, but right now I will not tell anyone else to buy it if they're thinking about upgrading OSes and not hardware.

KSib said,
I like the improvements to Windows 8, but I can't bring myself to recommend it to anyone. The apps out of the box almost all have something wrong with them. I tend to stay on the desktop. Metro looks nice, but that's about it. It's not as productive as doing things on the desktop.

I do, however really enjoy the snap interface of some applications like Skype and the notifications for new mail on the top-right with sound built in.

Maybe when MS gets it together and fixes their apps and more apps start getting developed for windows 8 metro then I'll change my tune, but right now I will not tell anyone else to buy it if they're thinking about upgrading OSes and not hardware.

This is my and my team's biggest complain, the Microsoft included Apps.

They did ramp up improving them around the release date, but the Music and Video apps need a serious revamp. Instead of showcasing the brilliant Zune/Wp7 Music/Video experience instead it is a lackluster interface missing too many features.

(I do know they have been working on the cloud syncing side of things and that was a big goal prior to release, but now that those features are in, it is time to bring the functionality of the Apps up to what a WP7 user would expect.)

I have hope that with Sinofsky being removed, that the teams can get together and get the Apps unified and not be so painfully basic.

Been using 8 on my desktop and laptop since RTM. I'm not looking back. Way faster than 7 and I have become accustomed to the new start menu. It's so much better and I don't understand why people won't embrace it. All the little things that "take much longer than in 7" you get used to and they become just as fast (shutting down the computer, for example) as before.

On the laptop, my Synaptics trackpad has swipe gesture recognition, which makes using 8 a breeze. Swipe from the right to get charms, from the top for context bars, and from the left to switch apps. Just as good as a touch screen in terms of those features.

People that don't like it just need to spend some time with it. When they announced 8 would have a full screen start menu I thought it was the stupidest thing and I said that I would refuse to upgrade. After 3 betas, I can say that I've come to love it. My only gripes are the little inconsistencies in the desktop UI (Transparency on the taskbar but nowhere else? Come on...) and a few glitchy things with the Modern UI. But hey, it's Microsoft's first time with a full fledged tablet/desktop hybrid UI, there's some bugs to be expected.

As for Windows RT, I think it's an unnecessary product. Nobody wants a Windows tablet that can't run Windows programs, and anybody that does would be better off with an Android or Apple tablet right now while the app store matures. I love the Surface but i'd never buy one with that OS.

I have a trackpad with gesture recognition too and haven't tried that. If it works for me, then that's something else to love. Doing hot-corners without a mouse is sometimes a finger work-out

window 8 sucks i went right back too window 7 and i love window 7 i will be uesing window 7 in tell i can save up the $ for a mac book pro 15"

David Thomas said,
window 8 sucks i went right back too window 7 and i love window 7 i will be uesing window 7 in tell i can save up the $ for a mac book pro 15"

I love my MS Surface. Any meeting I go to, it comes with me.

Windows 8/RT, however, suck. At least the Metro element of it.

Windows 8 as a desktop is fine.

Frogboy said,
I love my MS Surface. Any meeting I go to, it comes with me.

Windows 8/RT, however, suck. At least the Metro element of it.

Windows 8 as a desktop is fine.

Why do you love your Surface if you think RT sucks??

That doesn't make sense. RT is what makes the Surface what it is...

mikeyx12 said,
Why do you love your Surface if you think RT sucks??

That doesn't make sense. RT is what makes the Surface what it is...

Surface is hardware, Windows RT is software/OS.
They are orthogonal, and can have their own appraisals.
How's that confusing you?

I like Windows 8, but I feel like I have to put some effort into it. On the plus side: great performance, great compatibility, wonderfully straightforward install experience. I actually chose to pull the trigger and upgrade my primary machine after I saw how good Win8 was on old hardware.

Neutral: I get what Microsoft is trying to do with Modern UI, and it doesn't get in the way once you've given it a bit of a chance and picked up a few shortcuts. I dislike the lack of customizability, though, and I'm wary of a new top-level environment that sits above the desktop and is so tightly controlled.

The bad: the confusion between environments (do I go to the "settings" charm or the Control Panel to configure a given setting?). The Modern UI environment isn't the most stable; I've seen a surprising number of hangs/crashes on MUI apps. The few I can find (which, of course, is yet another issue). And why couldn't the excellent backup utility from Win7 Pro have been carried over?

The worst: I can customize the Desktop environment to my heart's content. Yay. Otherwise, my choices for the rest of the interface are extremely limited, and that seriously sucks. "But you can download all kinds of utilities! You can even get the Start Menu back if you really want it!". Sure, *I* can, but that kind of hacky approach doesn't work for everyone. There are several people I've tried to sell on Win8 (especially with that sweet upgrade price) who are put off by MUI and don't want to be bothered with searching out alternatives.

Thunderbuck said,
I like Windows 8, but I feel like I have to put some effort into it. On the plus side: great performance, great compatibility, wonderfully straightforward install experience. I actually chose to pull the trigger and upgrade my primary machine after I saw how good Win8 was on old hardware.

Neutral: I get what Microsoft is trying to do with Modern UI, and it doesn't get in the way once you've given it a bit of a chance and picked up a few shortcuts. I dislike the lack of customizability, though, and I'm wary of a new top-level environment that sits above the desktop and is so tightly controlled.

The bad: the confusion between environments (do I go to the "settings" charm or the Control Panel to configure a given setting?). The Modern UI environment isn't the most stable; I've seen a surprising number of hangs/crashes on MUI apps. The few I can find (which, of course, is yet another issue). And why couldn't the excellent backup utility from Win7 Pro have been carried over?

The worst: I can customize the Desktop environment to my heart's content. Yay. Otherwise, my choices for the rest of the interface are extremely limited, and that seriously sucks. "But you can download all kinds of utilities! You can even get the Start Menu back if you really want it!". Sure, *I* can, but that kind of hacky approach doesn't work for everyone. There are several people I've tried to sell on Win8 (especially with that sweet upgrade price) who are put off by MUI and don't want to be bothered with searching out alternatives.

It isn't that things are that much different, it is more about a shift in how people think about it. Windows 8 offers a lot 'more' features, and sadly people get 'stuck' on the change in how the 'start menu' works.

This isn't a bad article that tries to get people to rethink the start menu/start screen, as they really aren't different, other than one being full screen.

http://www.techspot.com/articl...8-start-menu-is-irrelevant/

Been using Windows 8 for a while, installed Start8 because I like having quick access for certain things, but equally I like the functionality of the start screen when initially booting up - loading weather, news etc.

I don't have or want a Surface.

Windows 8? I love the desktop experience and its speed/responsiveness. I don't use Modern apps at all and haven't seen the Start Screen a single time since I installed the OS on october 26th. Thanks Start8 for providing me with a real desktop experience.

Windows 8 is what I thought it would be: a great OS overall, with an ugly wart called "RT" on top.

myxomatosis said,
I don't have or want a Surface.

Windows 8? I love the desktop experience and its speed/responsiveness. I don't use Modern apps at all and haven't seen the Start Screen a single time since I installed the OS on october 26th. Thanks Start8 for providing me with a real desktop experience.

Windows 8 is what I thought it would be: a great OS overall, with an ugly wart called "RT" on top.

Funny, I feel the same way. Underneath all that Metro crap is actually a decent OS tweaked a little from Windows 7.

windows 8: HUGE potential, but needs some serious polishing, specially in terms of speed in the metro environment and the desktop UI

Surface: good device, NO apps...

Ahmed Alrasheed said,
windows 8: HUGE potential, but needs some serious polishing, specially in terms of speed in the metro environment and the desktop UI

Surface: good device, NO apps...

and you know what people like the guy above you heard ?
Bring back the start menu !!111111

fabricating reality on the fly n their heads.
like that old commercial where a million people are in office cubicles
all talking loudly covering their ears.

It's really good, so many improvements! I feel sorry for all the haters because they truly are missing out on a better experience.

ingramator said,
It's really good, so many improvements! I feel sorry for all the haters because they truly are missing out on a better experience.

we all feel sorry for your ignorance.
you stereotyped everyone that doesn't like it in one swoop.
which clearly points out your not hearing what people are complaining about..
they are all just a bunch of "haters"
implying what ?
rather insulting to say the least buddy.

Calling him ignorant is not very helpful either. And why would you put me in a group that feels sorry for him as I don't.

You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Secondly, just because you want the start menu back doesn't me we all do. I personally don't miss it at all. It's really not that hard to pin desktop apps that you know and love to click all the time. I am a developer who is defiantly a power-user, and now that I use the OS on a daily basis. It's strange to me when I use Windows 7 now. Just depends on what you get used to.

I don't hate other OSX because it doesn't act like Windows. I hate OSX because of my own personal issues with the companies policies. But, I'm not here to shove it down anyone's throat.

WIndows 8 interface is inconsistent, hard to learn and people are loosing productivity.
It will be a failure and microsoft will continue to loose momentum on the consumer side.

App store needs a major UI overhaul. It's difficult to find new and popular apps. If there is an app with 200 ratings and 4 star average and app with 1 rating and 5 stars it will be sorted above, which is semi misleading, when sorting by rating.

When looking at anything but the homepage its just a ton of colored squares that overwhelms you. Nothing is organized.

There is no way for MS to highlight sales. If there was any sales this weekend, the store couldn't have told you.

When an app updates there isn't anything to tell you what the changes were.

Basically its just a mess of squares.

Bought the upgrade after trying it twice while it was in Beta, thought maybe third time lucky.

Nope, hated it on the desktop still, back to 7 not long after. Only version of Windows i've ever gone backwards from.


We've actually "upgraded" back to Windows 7 for about 175 clients. Most "work horses" I know refuse to touch Windows 8.

Walrush said,
Bought the upgrade after trying it twice while it was in Beta, thought maybe third time lucky.

Nope, hated it on the desktop still, back to 7 not long after. Only version of Windows i've ever gone backwards from.



I liked the new Visual Style initially, but am now pretty bored of it. Other changes made to the Desktop (like the Ribbon in Explorer - which I leave minimised) provide no advantage for me personally. And some of the things which have modern UI elements in the desktop (like clicking the Network icon in the Notification area, or the "Choose Program to Open with" dialog) look out of place and are usually less functional than what they replaced.

After installing Start8 (after finding the need to switch environments just to start something jarring, and that All Apps view totally sucks) I never see the Start Screen except during Login, which leaves me wondering what the point of using it over Windows 7 is.

I'm staying with it because I can't be bothered reinstalling WIndows 7 and to see what happens with this Windows 8 "blue" update.

virtorio said,
I liked the new Visual Style initially, but am now pretty bored of it.
I'm staying with it because I can't be bothered reinstalling WIndows 7 and to see what happens with this Windows 8 "blue" update.

Man, I think I'm practically in the same boat. But I have gotten used to the Start screen. But I've thought several times about going back to 7, but man, what a lot of time and effort. So, I'm OK with Windows 8 for now. What's the 'blue' update, anyway?

devHead said,

What's the 'blue' update, anyway?

It's rumoured to be in intrim update that'll include some minor new features, improvements and refinements. But it's very much a rumor.

devHead said,

But I've thought several times about going back to 7, but man, what a lot of time and effort.

Don't you guys have backups? I was back on Win7 within half an hour...

MFH said,

Don't you guys have backups? I was back on Win7 within half an hour...

Depend, if you are a power user, to reinstall a system could take a whole day (if not more). In my case : install the os, install office, install a browser, install visual studio, install java and eclipse, install sql server, install mysql, install oracle, install Adobe CS5 (it takes an hour) and several other more.

Brony said,

Depend, if you are a power user, to reinstall a system could take a whole day (if not more). In my case : install the os, install office, install a browser, install visual studio, install java and eclipse, install sql server, install mysql, install oracle, install Adobe CS5 (it takes an hour) and several other more.

Don't forget settings for those applications, databases, source control connections, saved passwords to visited sites. It does take lots of time. However, you could have used windows backup and made a backup of Windows 7 before you switched to Windows 8. That backup would save everything and be fast. I did not make a backup but I do not plan on rolling back.

There are too many good features in Windows 8 plus I want to develop for Windows 8.

I agree with MorganX. It doesn't feel finished. Too many things not working or not matching. Try pulling the music app to the side, and then clicking on song list. Won't work.

ccoltmanm said,
I agree with MorganX. It doesn't feel finished. Too many things not working or not matching. Try pulling the music app to the side, and then clicking on song list. Won't work.

Indeed. And not only metro apps.

There are many design inconsistencies on the desktop only! Try navigating to Programs and Features, Devices and Printers, and you'll see Windows 7 color bars on the bottom.

Furthermore, the metro pop ups feel very immature since it doesn't do most of the things that previous Windows versions did.

Windows 8 has lots of potential but just feels unfinished. The Windows 8 Desktop Environment is a great upgrade to Windows 7 though

Surface is a great piece of hardware. Those wanting more power should wait for the pro but for $599 with touch cover and full blown Office 2013, I'm quite pleased. Remote Desktop is fantastic as is Lync. Superb Netflix client. However, Microsoft dropped the ball with media management. There's no way to sync files with your desktop and the core Music app is abysmal.

The potential of both is clear, but Microsoft has a lot of work to do. A lot! Both lack polish you expect from cutting edge products.

MorganX said,
Windows 8 has lots of potential but just feels unfinished. The Windows 8 Desktop Environment is a great upgrade to Windows 7 though

Surface is a great piece of hardware. Those wanting more power should wait for the pro but for $599 with touch cover and full blown Office 2013, I'm quite pleased. Remote Desktop is fantastic as is Lync. Superb Netflix client. However, Microsoft dropped the ball with media management. There's no way to sync files with your desktop and the core Music app is abysmal.

The potential of both is clear, but Microsoft has a lot of work to do. A lot! Both lack polish you expect from cutting edge products.

I agree. I love my surface, and use it daily.

Been using Windows 8 on my desktop and my tablet PC since February. Works great. I don't use metro apps on my desktop, I just stay in the classic Desktop UI.

mrp04 said,
Been using Windows 8 on my desktop and my tablet PC since February. Works great. I don't use metro apps on my desktop, I just stay in the classic Desktop UI.

here here. I only use metro apps if I need to, otherwise I spend 99% of time in the desktop doing stuff (unless I'm VS coding).

mrp04 said,
Been using Windows 8 on my desktop and my tablet PC since February. Works great. I don't use metro apps on my desktop, I just stay in the classic Desktop UI.

Same here just use normal desktop, I never had icons on my desktop in Windows 7 so I dont want them in a new UI either.

DesiSpark said,
Same Here .. No-one is forcing to use apps. working on classic win8. working really fine.

Agreed. There is a tendency on tech sites in general (and not just Neowin) to over-emphasize what's disliked/hated about an OS/distribution/application - I've seen it with any polarizing aspect of such OS features/application features/desktop environments.

As to Windows 8/Modern UI - I like the Start Screen because it's not as annoying (or, quite honestly, as broken) as the Start menu could be. And as much as folks complain that Search is busted in Windows 8, as badly as it is there, in Windows 7 (or Vista, or XP, even with Windows Search 4.0), it's FAR worse. The reason I don't have an issue with it in Windows 8 is because of something I started doing back in Windows XP - it's called "file organization" - sorting files by type. (And if you use a download manager and/or P2P client, you have even less excuse, as you can use them in conjunction with file organization categories to get - and keep - your newly-acquired files organized.)

If your issue with Windows 8 is that it's too different, fine. Say so - don't sit there and try and blow smoke up our posteriors that its anything else. Microsoft makes an operating system for you vanilla types as well, and it will supported until, at least, 2020. It's called Windows 7.

I haven't tried Surface - I'm dual-booting 8 and Server 2012 Standard (with Desktop Experience) on my Q6600/G41-chipset desktop. As to why Server 2012, I'm using it as a Hyper-V virtualization lab (no SLAT, so I can't do that with Windows 8).

mrp04 said,
Been using Windows 8 on my desktop and my tablet PC since February. Works great. I don't use metro apps on my desktop, I just stay in the classic Desktop UI.

Exactly what I do. I own a Surface RT and LOVE Windows RT. I have Windows 8 Pro installed on a media center computer and I've gone into the Start Screen maybe twice since I set it up when Win8 was launched.

Only thing useful about the Modern UI is clicking start and typing the name of the application you want. Everything else about the Modern UI sucks balls.

warwagon said,
Only thing useful about the Modern UI is clicking start and typing the name of the application you want. Everything else about the Modern UI sucks balls.

You could do that in Windows 7 and pretty sure Vista.

warwagon said,
Only thing useful about the Modern UI is clicking start and typing the name of the application you want. Everything else about the Modern UI sucks balls.

You do realize you can click settings, files and search them too? In fact you can click through every App in the Search bar and send your search to several applications.

So if you were looking up information on Beyoncé, you could search Wikipedia, internet, local files, Netflix, Xbox Video, Xbox Music, Hulu in just a couple of clicks.

PS WinKey + F to search Files first, in case you don't like clicking Files after typing.

Geesh.

warwagon said,
Only thing useful about the Modern UI is clicking start and typing the name of the application you want. Everything else about the Modern UI sucks balls.

You actually have to select a category from the panel hence one more click, that was not the case with Windows 7. It seems Microsoft wanted to make everything more confusing to the end user.

yowanvista said,

You actually have to select a category from the panel hence one more click, that was not the case with Windows 7. It seems Microsoft wanted to make everything more confusing to the end user.

L2U.

warwagon said,
Only thing useful about the Modern UI is clicking start and typing the name of the application you want. Everything else about the Modern UI sucks balls.

Windows Vista and 7 can do that. However, the "search" feature of windows 8 is not quite polished. For example, in windows vista and 7, i can search for "uac" and it is recognized as "change user account settings" but in windows 8. Also, it requires an extra click, when in windows 7, i must enter "UAC", press enter and that's it.

yowanvista said,

You actually have to select a category from the panel hence one more click, that was not the case with Windows 7. It seems Microsoft wanted to make everything more confusing to the end user.

Exactly. The Search Results screen should be divided up into sections of search results. This is especially frustrating when you search for something in the Control Panel and there's a big blank "App" screen up saying "No results". So unintuitive.

Deihmos said,
I really didn't like it on the desktop so I reinstalled Windows 7.

This is about Surface tablet, if you have not used it for a month no point in commenting about it.

soulxfer said,
This is about Surface tablet, if you have not used it for a month no point in commenting about it.

The article clearly talks about BOTH the operating system and the tablet.

No point in commenting about it if you didn't read the article.

You should re-read the title of the article

soulxfer said,

This is about Surface tablet, if you have not used it for a month no point in commenting about it.

I don't feel anything...anything I tell you!

Actually, I do feel something. I think the release of Windows RT is a big mistake. They should've release Surface with Cloverfield. I just don't get Windows on Arm at all. Cloverfield has higher performance same battery life and comes with legacy support.

What the fukc were Sinofsky thinking releasing the Surface RT? I'm glad he's gone.

flexkeyboard said,
I don't feel anything...anything I tell you!
What the fukc were Sinofsky thinking releasing the Surface RT? I'm glad he's gone.

First step towards ARM-based desktop computers.

flexkeyboard said,
I don't feel anything...anything I tell you!

Actually, I do feel something. I think the release of Windows RT is a big mistake. They should've release Surface with Cloverfield. I just don't get Windows on Arm at all. Cloverfield has higher performance same battery life and comes with legacy support.

What the fukc were Sinofsky thinking releasing the Surface RT? I'm glad he's gone.

Why do you think they're releasing the Surface Pro in 2013? Haswell maybe?

flexkeyboard said,
I don't feel anything...anything I tell you!

Actually, I do feel something. I think the release of Windows RT is a big mistake. They should've release Surface with Cloverfield. I just don't get Windows on Arm at all. Cloverfield has higher performance same battery life and comes with legacy support.

What the fukc were Sinofsky thinking releasing the Surface RT? I'm glad he's gone.

Clovertrail. Cloverfield is a monster movie

Majesticmerc said,

Clovertrail. Cloverfield is a monster movie

Clovertrail cloverfield yeah yeah samething! Lol
That movie was horrible, how did I get that mixed up?!

Pluto is a Planet said,

Why do you think they're releasing the Surface Pro in 2013? Haswell maybe?

It would be awesome if the Surface Pro came out the door with the Haswell CPU.

TRC said,
I've only used Windows 8 on a desktop, hated it. I haven't tried a tablet but I hear it works well on them.

Hear hear. Couldn't stand trying it on a desktop or otherwise.

I have no intention of buying it. Windows 7 works perfectly well for me on my desktop/laptops. I tried Windows 8 preview and hated it. I couldn't care less about the Surface. No intention of buying it either.

TRC said,
I've only used Windows 8 on a desktop, hated it. I haven't tried a tablet but I hear it works well on them.

Agree, terrible on desktop great on tablet

TRC said,
I've only used Windows 8 on a desktop, hated it. I haven't tried a tablet but I hear it works well on them.

Yeah, on tablets the tablet-part is working O.K. On desktop the desktop-part is working as expected, meanwhile it lost functionality. In short, I feel it's a semi-tablet, semi-desktop messy OS. That's what I feel. I went back to 7, literally, there's no reason to stay on Win8. Win7 got the dx useful Dx updates and IE10 with normal, better font-rendering, not the like IE10 on Win8, the blurry, ugly, optimized for tablets font-rendering.

superconductive said,

Hear hear. Couldn't stand trying it on a desktop or otherwise.

I don't agree. I'm running it fulltime on my HTPC and regular PC since the Consumer Preview (and final since release on Technet). I am quite satisfied with the many changes that were made to the overall "fit and finish" in the desktop environment. Especially the improved Task Manager, improved Explorer, Boot and Shutdown times, and Multi monitor support. I'm not missing the Start menu all of the apps I regularly use are pinned to the Taskbar. Metro is pretty good, but on a desktop I spend 95% of my time in the Desktop environment. There are some cool Metro apps, but I think most of them are best suited for touch, keyboard/mouse support is "ok", but usually better in traditional apps or in the browser.

I do think it's a good idea to integrate Metro in Windows, so Windows will become (almost) one product over Phone, Tablet and Desktop. That this transitional period hurts was to be expected. Most people hate change. From a productivity standpoint I don't think that the lack of a Start Menu, and the addition of Metro has any negative impact, IF you are willing to make some changes in the way you work. For some use cases productivity is much improved, or even made possible where in the past it was not.

Overall I'd give Microsoft, and their strategy with Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8, an 8.

TRC said,
I've only used Windows 8 on a desktop, hated it. I haven't tried a tablet but I hear it works well on them.

I've been using Windows 8 since the Developer preview on my desktop and it's just been getting better and better. Windows 8 is by far my favourite OS. The live tiles let me check my email and notifications so much quicker than opening a browser and signing into various sites. Also the boot up times are much faster than Windows 7. I like the overall design (though there are few flaws as you are probably aware). Also Microsoft have added a number of nice features; ISO mounting, better task manager, etc.