Exclusive: Interview with PS3 hacker KaKaRoTo

As you may have read on our previous report, a hacker and homebrew developer known as KaKaRoTo is petitioning Sony by releasing a bunch of homebrew titles for the PS3 (as well as other platforms) for free. He calls this the Humble Homebrew Collection and it’s certainly a unique way to petition a company. So unique, in fact, that we jumped at the opportunity to sit down with him and have a chat.

What exactly makes such a person “tick”? Read on and you might just find out.

Neowin: So KaKaRoTo, tell us a little bit about yourself.

KaKaRoTo: "I'm Youness Alaoui, I'm a Moroccan and I'm living in Canada. I've been working on open source software for the past 10 years, first with aMSN, then professionally for Collabora where I've touched on many open source projects."

Neowin: How did you end up getting involved in the PS3 “Hacking” scene?

KaKaRoTo: "Well, I never planned/wanted to...but I was browsing some forum and I saw a usb dump of the PS Jailbreak dongle. My curiosity got the best of me and I wondered 'what does all that stuff mean?', so I researched the usb protocol specification and then I saw my N900 phone on my desk and thought 'I bet it would be easy to reproduce that with my phone', so I started tinkering. One thing led to another and PSFreedom was born. It got a lot of attention, more than I imagined (I was just expecting a "cool, the N900 is awesome" kind of response), Android porting started (by other developers) and eventually, I extracted the payload into PL3. I've always been pro-open source and open development, and seeing how the scene is or was, I thought I could help by trying to create a good foundation for future devs. I was thinking of how Dark Alex left the PSP scene and M33 was never heard of again (correct me if I'm wrong). and I thought if only the PSP scene was 100% open, then anyone could have picked it up where he left it."

For those who haven’t been following the PS3 or PSP hacking scene, the “PS Jailbreak” was the first real “hack” released for the PS3. It was a USB dongle that allowed the PS3 to run homebrew, as well as play back up games. However, the dongle came from an unknown source and people weren’t really sure how it worked or what it actually did to the PS3.

It wasn’t long before it was reverse engineered (if you can believe that a “hack” had to be “hacked") into two components - the exploit and the payload. The exploit was a clever way of taking advantage of how the PS3 handles multiple USB devices, which allowed you to overwrite certain parts of the PS3’s RAM. But what to overwrite? That’s where the payload comes into it. As it turns out, by adding more features to the payload, more and more interesting things could be done with the PS3. PSFreedom was an open source version of the exploit (originally for certain Nokia phones, but later ported to other devices) and PL3 was an open source version of the payload, all documented to easily allow other developers to tinker with the PS3. This is in contrast to the PSP scene, where not a lot was documented so when a developer “left” the scene, a lot of their work would remain unfinished with nobody able to continue it.

KaKaRoTo: "My goal is to make open source and open knowledge the de facto standard for the PS3 scene. I hated to see all those .PUP releases and BSDIFF stuff from people who modified the firmware on their own, so I decided to start PS3MFW where every modification to the firmware is open and visible to the user."

When the details of the PS3 encryption being broken first hit the Internet, quite a few people released their own "custom firmware", however many didn’t specify what exactly they had changed and more seriously, some even caused people to brick their console. PS3MFW is a tool that lets anyone easily create their own custom firmware from official PS3 update files. The included patches are optional and well documented, so people know exactly what they’re getting. This way people could enjoy the benefits of a custom firmware without worrying about what else had been done to it.

Neowin: When Sony started filing lawsuits against other hackers, were you not concerned that you might be targeted yourself?

KaKaRoTo: "I was initially concerned, of course. I even thought of disappearing - as much as I love this, I don't want to be dragged into a lawsuit for the rest of my life just for the sake of a hobby, especially when I was named in the lawsuit against geohot. I kept a cool head, I was in contact with a lawyer that was provided to me by the EFF and I've read so many court documents that I've become almost an expert in law :p 

First, I realized that Sony was abusing the law and wasn't trying to win anything but merely to scare everyone off, sending a clear message to developers that they will get sued if they don't comply, and that really irritated me. I felt oppressed and I felt my rights being violated by this giant corporation - so I refused to let them win.

Secondly, I made sure that I haven't done anything illegal - and I haven't! I never published anything that was copyrighted by them, even the very first modified firmware that I released was a simple script that took the original firmware as input (a predecessor to PS3MFW).

Also, I live in Canada and here it is perfectly legal. There is no such thing as the DMCA and modchips are legal in Canada (it's even a registered trademark)."

Neowin: Do you think Sony has succeeded in scaring off developers?

KaKaRoTo: "I don't know, I think it's two fold. First, many got scared by Sony, secondly, many were just there for their backup managers, once that was working they decided to say goodbye."

Neowin: But you're obviously still around, so presumably you're not interested in piracy?

KaKaRoTo: "No, I'm not, I own almost 150 PS3 games. I don't need to pirate anything since everything that I like, I buy. I'm interested in knowledge, and the entertainment of hacking/coding.I don't even use my PS3 for linux or homebrew, I just have fun coding it.

I have 2 PS3s and one is not jailbroken. It's on the latest firmware and I use it for games and as a media hub. The other one is jailbroken and I only turn it on to test something."

One thing that comes across from talking to KaKaRoTo is how passionate he is about his ideals, that information should be freely distributed and that the more open things are, the better. He certainly doesn’t come across as the fame-and-fortune seeking type and you have to wonder “Why does he do this? What’s in it for him?”.

Neowin: What made you decide to create the “Humble Homebrew Collection”?

KaKaRoTo: "I found Pattern (my favorite puzzle game) on my PC. I've been playing it for years and I thought 'this would be a good/simple homebrew app'. I tweeted that and Clément Bouvet came out quickly with a proof of concept using Cairo. I thought 'awesome, someone actually listened to my request, maybe I'll help him', so I looked at the Cairo API and the SGT Puzzles' design and I loved them both, so I decided to write a full app around it.

I realized there's no toolkit for the homebrew apps on PS3, so I also started working on one (the menu system you see in the homebrew app) in hopes that it will help others build their own apps. Then I thought of the humble indie bundle and I wanted to do the same thing, but differently. Having a petition against Sony has always been something that I wanted to do, so this was the perfect opportunity."

Neowin: Have you ever done anything like the Humble Homebrew Collection before?

KaKaRoTo: "No, this is the first time, but I've seen many petitions before - like the OpenMedia petition against the CRTC's decision to impose usage based billing in Canada. It worked, it made the government force the CRTC to revise its decision. But I've never created one myself and it probably shows that it's amateurish :p"

Neowin: Are there any future plans for the Collection?

KaKaRoTo: "I'm not someone who plans ahead. Like I said earlier, I never planned to be in the PS3 scene in the first place. I also quite often said that I would never do homebrew because what I like is the low level stuff - writing libraries for others to use in their homebrew, for example. I didn't plan the humble homebrew collection, but it happened.

I planned on improving the puzzles, fixing some performance issues, making it better in many aspects (there's a 'TODO' file in the game's source directory) but since I've received some critiques about the games, (people don't like the idea of 'crappy little puzzles' as a "homebrew") I thought I'd move over to something else.

I'll probably still fix the various things I wanted to do for the SGT Puzzles, but for now, I'll do something a bit different. My plan was to relax, and put the PS3 scene behind me for a little while and let others pick up where I left but I've once again had my curiosity get the best of me. Yesterday, I went to a little wikipedia page and randomly clicked on one of the games there.

It was Chromium B.S.U, a space shooter that seemed quite fun. I played it for a bit on my pc, I liked it and then I wondered how easy it would be to port to the PS3, so I started the process. It didn't go so well because Chromium B.S.U. depends on OpenGL and we don't have that yet.

I found Mesa3D and so there's a way to get it to work by using software rendering, but I don't really want to do it (it looks boring). So I looked at other games, two of my favorites were Widelands (a clone of Settlers 2) and Free Heroes 2 (a clone of Heroes Of Might and Magic 2). Widelands depends on some stuff like OpenGL, python and lua, so I didn't bother, but Free Heroes 2 only depends on SDL, which has already been ported for the PS3. So I tried to compile it and it worked!

I've been playing a bit of it right now on my PS3 while doing this interview. So I think that will be the next homebrew that I'll add to the collection, but people need to understand that it's not that easy to port a new game, so it might take a few more weeks before it's ready, depending on what I want to add to make it 'PS3-compatible' and how much free time I get."

True to his word, later on in the interview he linked to this video of the game running on a jailbroken PS3.

Neowin: Sony seems very reluctant to allow Homebrew on the PS3 and have a history of stifling it in some of their other products, why do you think this is?

KaKaRoTo: "I think there are two types of people at Sony. First, the lowly developers who try to sneak in some features that we'll like (like OtherOS, I'm pretty sure it wasn't an exec's decision), and then you have those big guys in suits who probably never played a game in their life. The guys making decisions are the guys who understand nothing about how the real world works and they only hear the excuses of those below them who say 'it's because of piracy' whenever they can.

It's simple, you release a good game and even if you can pirate it from day 1, it will sell like crazy and you'll get rich. When you release a crappy game, even if there is zero piracy, you will not sell it and you'll lose money. The thing is, if there is even a 0.000001% chance that someone pirated that crappy game, then those responsible for the game will blame it all on piracy. They'll say 'if it wasn't for piracy, we would have made billions of dollars more' and the stupid CEOs believe that., so they say 'do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING (even if it's illegal) to stop this from ever happening again'.

The result - all their customers suffer from it, piracy stays the same and now they have a good excuse to continue shipping crappy games instead of improving their games. So when a question like homebrew or linux or something similar comes on the desk of that stupid CEO who doesn't understand a thing about this, he asks 'euhh.. how much will that give us?', he gets the answer of 'customer trust, loyalty, happy users' and he says 'HOW MUCH!??' and they say 'nothing substantial on the short term' so he throws it on the garbage because he doesn't understand what it really means."

Neowin: Some people have suggested that Sony wont allow Homebrew because they would lose money from it, or that there’s no way to monetise it. Do you think that’s true?

KaKaRoTo: "No, I don't think that's true. Look at Google, Apple and Microsoft, they are making a lot of money through homebrew. People think 'homebrew' means piracy or 'crappy little apps', but they don't realize that most of the applications on the iPhone's App Store are homebrew. You'll see a few apps who are made by a company (like Angry Birds by Rovio) but if you run the application and you don't see a company logo as a flash screen, then that's homebrew.

Why is the iphone selling so well? Because it has all this huge library of apps and games! Has apple lost any money from it? No. Does apple get tons of money thanks to homebrew? Definitely!

If I remember correctly, Apple gets 30% off the sales of apps on the app store and that's a substantial amount of money considering how much cash people are spending there. So, 'there's no way to monetise it'? That's just an excuse. Sony are extremely arrogant and that's probably the only reason.
If you sell your SDK for 100$, you'll get 1 million people to buy it, that's $100 million, Sell your SDK for 25 000$, and you'll get 100 people to buy it, that's $2.5million, do the math.
Actually, I don't know if Sony's SDK is 25K$ or 100K$, I heard both numbers... but whatever the price, some guy coding in his garage can't get it, EVEN if he had the money for it."

This is true, Sony wont sell just anyone an SDK, you have to be a registered developer and the cost of entry is very prohibitive. However, it should be noted that this is a fairly common thing, with both Microsoft and Nintendo doing a similar thing (although Microsoft does at least have XNA).

Neowin: Assuming Sony doesn’t budge on the whole issue, do you think Homebrew on the PS3 has a future?

KaKaRoTo: "I honestly don't know. I see the scene almost dying, we need more exposure, we need more developers, but first, we need a good SDK. We already have PSL1GHT, which is awesome, and the SDK has been ported, but we're still lacking proper OpenGL support. Once we get that and we get a hack for the latest firmware, so more people can get on board, then we'll probably see some more homebrew apps popping up. It takes time, it takes a huge amount of time to develop something, so that's probably why it's so slow.

I'll try to keep encouraging people to develop homebrew and hopefully it will become very active."

Neowin: A lot of PS3 owners have been upset at the recent PSN hack and many people blame the Homebrew community for it. What would you say to these people to alleviate their concerns about getting Homebrew on the console?

KaKaRoTo: "People are unfortunately confusing homebrew, developers, hackers and crackers. It's like I said before, any app on the iPhone that doesn't show you a company logo whenever you start it IS homebrew. So, if apple gets hacked tomorrow, are you going to blame it on the guy who wrote that fart app?"

Neowin: How did you feel when you first heard of Anonymous’ planned “attacks” against Sony?

KaKaRoTo: "Well, when I first heard of it, I didn't know who or what Anonymous was. I later learned about them and their history, but I didn't agree with their methods.

I didn't participate in any of the attacks, and I disagree with the DDoS, but someone explained it to me like "we're like protesters sitting in front of a building's entrance, preventing people from entering" so I'm not sure exactly what to think of it.

One thing though that I can say: Sony deserves everything it's getting. The users, the gamers don't deserve that small downtime of PSN when Anonymous was attacking Sony but Sony themselves deserved it. Now, about the PSN Hack, which I'm introducing in this question, but which is (probably) unrelated to Anonymous...

Again, the users did not deserve getting their information stolen and they did not deserve being without PSN for 3 weeks, however Sony deserved it in the sense that:

1 - They lost customer trust - which is exactly what should have happened when they removed OtherOS.
2 - They lost money and got sued and got in a lot of news sites about this - which is exactly what should have happened when they removed OtherOS.

And while the gamers shouldn't have lost PSN access for this long, at least now they understand what it feels like to be 'without PSN access...because some giant a**hole decided to force it on you for their own enrichment' and just like the users didn't deserve what happened to them (or their personal information), we didn't deserve losing functionality we paid for either."

Neowin: It has been rumoured in the past that the PS3 would be getting Google TV integration. This would potentially bring the Android Market to the PS3 - do you think this would alleviate the desire for Homebrew?

KaKaRoTo: "Sony would probably not allow it, but even if it did, android runs on Java, which is inside a virtual machine. It would probably be a very limited/neutered version meaning you probably can do anything with that on the PS3. Maybe some small apps, but probably not a full game."

Neowin: What if Sony decided to bring “OtherOS” back? Would that make a difference?

KaKaRoTo: "I think it would, yes. It would first be a huge step towards the goal but when you think about it, it wouldn't be much more than 'hey, here's your PS3 the way it was when you bought it' so they'd actually not be doing anything.

But now that people have tried and enjoyed being able to run their homebrew directly from the XMB, I'm wondering whether or not they'll be happy with just that.
For me personally though, if we get OtherOS back, it will already be a big success."

Neowin: Anything else you’d like to add?

KaKaRoTo: "People often say Geohot, Fail0verflow, KaKaRoTo or Mathieulh to talk about those who 'did something for the PS3 scene', but I'd just like to say that you only know those names because we somehow end up being the 'face' of the scene, but in reality, there are many talented people who deserve a really big thank you and a huge applause for all their work.

For instance, I'm thinking about the contributors to PSL1GHT. Without them, we wouldn't be able to do any of that. Sometimes people forget that there are many building blocks and painting a wall is worthless if someone didn't take time to actually build that wall. So, I'd like everyone to remember, whenever they think of the scene, of all the people 'behind the scene' who also make this possible. The PS3toolchain, PSL1GHT, the PS3libraries port, the SDL port, etc..."

And with that, we parted ways. KaKaRoTo is a man that isn’t afraid to give his opinions on subjects and stand firmly behind them. He’s quite clearly a tinkerer of sorts and wants everyone else to be able to tinker with him, if they want to. 

Whether you agree with him or not, KaKaRoTo certainly doesn’t fall into that "hacker" stereotype that has been spreading regarding the whole PS3/PSN hacking fiasco. He isn’t bragging about what has been done, he isn’t threatening Sony or anyone else until he gets his way and he certainly isn’t in it to make a buck or two. It would have been nice to have reached Sony themselves for comment on this whole issue, but sadly they only seem to be sending out this same response to everyone who asks about homebrew:

Dear PlayStation consumer,

Thank you for your recent email requesting homebrew support for PlayStation 3 systems.

Our policy on this issue has not changed.  We are therefore not in a position to fulfil your request.

Thank you again,
The PlayStation Support Team

It doesn’t appear as though Sony is likely to ever change this stance, but it doesn’t seem that homebrewers like KaKaRoTo are giving up, either. If KaKaRoTo has convinced you that homebrew deserves a place on the PS3, feel free to head on over to http://humblehomebrew.com/ and sign the petition. If you disagree with him, then feel free to download and enjoy the free games anyway.

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Okay I'm back. I look at it this way, it's still exploiting the system itself but here's an article even stating using homebrew is still a form of hacking the system to get these things to work on the system(s) So all in all I don't care how many people are trying to f'n justify it as not hacking bc it is and if you jail break your system do you think Sony will touch it? more then so no because it can possibly mess up the system, so they along with other console companies advise people not to use things not licensed by them.

They know their systems because they make them and if they don't want anything to do with Homebrew etc etc it's their choice no one else is going to change their minds.
http://forums.canadiancontent....acked-backups-homebrew.html

WOW, I've NEVER in my 28 years seen/read anyone being so passionate about a game system. Not that I'm knocking any of the argument at all. I am actually enjoying reading all of this but, I need to give my eyes a break so, I'll come back and read some more later on.

Seriously, what's with all the childish rage in this thread.
It was a very informative interview. Can't we just leave it as that.

firstly there are three levels of hackers, the security guys are known as white hat, i think someone got confused on the middle ground guys which are more effective for security and counter-measures are known as red hat hackers NOT GREY and the black hats are the piracy/hackers that only do things to affect other people i.e. steal your information, i agree with the epliots to a point, only in the sense it allows people and developers that are starting out to see the capacity of the machines they are ultimately programming for, there are other methods and seeing as you can get emulators based for pretty much every machine thats been out for the last 30 years INCLUDING the PS3 XBOX360 (A.K.A within the developement world as the DirectXBOX seeing as its directx based) and the Wii, on the flip side the exploits can be used by hackers, seeing as sony and microsoft will disable and exploited machines it becomes pretty irrelevant as you end up forced to keep it OFFLINE, I'll back KaKaRoto as a developer, Open Source from a developers point of view is more helpful in the long run

DCull said,
firstly there are three levels of hackers, the security guys are known as white hat, i think someone got confused on the middle ground guys which are more effective for security and counter-measures are known as red hat hackers NOT GREY and the black hats are the piracy/hackers that only do things to affect other people i.e. steal your information, i agree with the epliots to a point, only in the sense it allows people and developers that are starting out to see the capacity of the machines they are ultimately programming for, there are other methods and seeing as you can get emulators based for pretty much every machine thats been out for the last 30 years INCLUDING the PS3 XBOX360 (A.K.A within the developement world as the DirectXBOX seeing as its directx based) and the Wii, on the flip side the exploits can be used by hackers, seeing as sony and microsoft will disable and exploited machines it becomes pretty irrelevant as you end up forced to keep it OFFLINE, I'll back KaKaRoto as a developer, Open Source from a developers point of view is more helpful in the long run

Actually grey hat hackers is a real term. Look it up m8. I've never ever heard of red hat before but I'll take your word for it .

xPreatorianx said,

Actually grey hat hackers is a real term. Look it up m8. I've never ever heard of red hat before but I'll take your word for it .

look it up red hat hackers comes up for LINUX ^.^

Who cares if you don't want to use it for that, just because you and some others only use it for gaming and nothing else doesn't mean the rest of us are the same. It's the same as assuming because two of your friends who bought the jailbreak "chip" and only use it to pirate games doesn't mean the rest of the PS3 owners do the same. You are over generalizing and assuming you know everything because you don't know ANYTHING. Ohh I'm on the internet, I'm so self righteous! Get off your high moral horse.
Most of you bashers are taking small bits and pieces our of context and twisting it around to help your lack of argument, not unlike the awesome media we have these days twisting the truth simply because they can.

<3 where he talks about the 2 types of people at Sony.

So uh what software developers dont get promoted or join the "Suits". Bs total Bs

Homebrew on consoles is like feeding honey to a lion.

Most lions dont like honey and all ur gonna get is one ****ed of lion and a helluva sticky situation. no?

Ok, so when I bought my PS3 I DIDN'T bought a video game console? I bought a PC? Man, there's no worst excuse... If you want to modify your hardware, you buy a computer. If you want a Sony computer, go for a Vaio. Yes, the PS3 have parts like a CPU, GPU, RAM, but it doesn't mean it's the same as a PC. If it have a closed firmware and is sold as a video game console, WHY, FOR THE SAKE OF GOD, PEOPLE BUY IT THINKING THAT IT'S A COMPUTER?? Yes it's COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM, but people takes the word COMPUTER for PC. Do you want to modify some hardware? Buy a PC, you can buy any parts you want! You can freely develop whatever kind of software you want!
And no, I don't think homebrew = piracy for everything. But now, for the PS3, at the moment they depend on the same thing: an exploit.
If you read anything like the terms of use, you would know that the console wasn't released to be used this way. If you don't agree, return it to the store.
I said it before and I'll say it again: I bought the PS3 for real gaming, not for homebrew. It will take years and years for homebrew to reach the same level of comercial games. It's better to develop for PC. And really, WHO IN THIS WORLD WOULD PLAY SUDOKU OR ANY OF THESE STUPID GAMES IN A PS3/XBox/Wii??
Anyway, they're getting here what they wanted from the start: Attention!

Aghares said,
Ok, so when I bought my PS3 I DIDN'T bought a video game console? I bought a PC? Man, there's no worst excuse... If you want to modify your hardware, you buy a computer. If you want a Sony computer, go for a Vaio. Yes, the PS3 have parts like a CPU, GPU, RAM, but it doesn't mean it's the same as a PC. If it have a closed firmware and is sold as a video game console, WHY, FOR THE SAKE OF GOD, PEOPLE BUY IT THINKING THAT IT'S A COMPUTER?? Yes it's COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM, but people takes the word COMPUTER for PC. Do you want to modify some hardware? Buy a PC, you can buy any parts you want! You can freely develop whatever kind of software you want!
And no, I don't think homebrew = piracy for everything. But now, for the PS3, at the moment they depend on the same thing: an exploit.
If you read anything like the terms of use, you would know that the console wasn't released to be used this way. If you don't agree, return it to the store.
I said it before and I'll say it again: I bought the PS3 for real gaming, not for homebrew. It will take years and years for homebrew to reach the same level of comercial games. It's better to develop for PC. And really, WHO IN THIS WORLD WOULD PLAY SUDOKU OR ANY OF THESE STUPID GAMES IN A PS3/XBox/Wii??
Anyway, they're getting here what they wanted from the start: Attention!

Actually it's not an excuse. It's called marketing straight from Sony. Sony originally sold the PS3(when I bought mine) as a "computer and entertainment system." So it's not an excuse. It's a justification for Sony illegally removing an advertised feature I and many others bought it for.

Likewise I bought my PS3 for a new way to develop games and applications. Have you ever designed anything for the PS3? No? Then you have no idea why people think it's an amazing platform to design on. It's a COMPLETELY different beast compared to the PC. A PC is easy as hell to develop for. The PS3 on the other hand gives you one hell of a challenge.

Also the TOS means jackshit to me considering I don't use PSN. Likewise the TOS isn't a legally binding contract. The TOS just boils down to "if you don't agree with these rules, then consider your PSN privileges completely revoked, stay the hell off our network"

Which quite honestly I say in return "That's fine, stay the hell away from MY console." That's as far as I'm willing to accept anything from a TOS.

Another reason why we don't have full good looking games on the PS3 with homebrew is because we don't have OpenGL support yet. That's still a work in progress. All we have is SDL. When we have full OpenGL support, you will start seeing amazing games being developed in the homebrew community.

xPreatorianx said,

Actually it's not an excuse. It's called marketing straight from Sony. Sony originally sold the PS3(when I bought mine) as a "computer and entertainment system." So it's not an excuse. It's a justification for Sony illegally removing an advertised feature I and many others bought it for.

Likewise I bought my PS3 for a new way to develop games and applications. Have you ever designed anything for the PS3? No? Then you have no idea why people think it's an amazing platform to design on. It's a COMPLETELY different beast compared to the PC. A PC is easy as hell to develop for. The PS3 on the other hand gives you one hell of a challenge.

Also the TOS means jackshit to me considering I don't use PSN. Likewise the TOS isn't a legally binding contract. The TOS just boils down to "if you don't agree with these rules, then consider your PSN privileges completely revoked, stay the hell off our network"

Which quite honestly I say in return "That's fine, stay the hell away from MY console." That's as far as I'm willing to accept anything from a TOS.

Another reason why we don't have full good looking games on the PS3 with homebrew is because we don't have OpenGL support yet. That's still a work in progress. All we have is SDL. When we have full OpenGL support, you will start seeing amazing games being developed in the homebrew community.

For all your patriotic apologism, I'm sorry to say you're nothing but completely arrogant and uninformed trash. DukeEsquire would rip your "legal knowledge" to pieces.

Like I said, try to be the white knight of this as much as you flipping want, the rest of us aren't stupid. We know why this homebrew push is being perpetuated so hard, and I promise you, it's not homebrew.

Grow up.

At the end of the day people like challenges. The PS3 has been one challenge going on for years. The minute Sony caught a sniff that someone had found a work around they patched the loop hole. Sure it meant killing "Other OS" but that was their only way. Of course this gave people a reason to moan. Personally I don't give a crap about homebrew games and lets be honest, people that buy this chip are people wanting pirated games. I have two mates who have the chip and use it for piracy reasons only.
It's nice to see though that this isn't another person just shouting their mouth off. Maybe because he's Moroccan/Canadian and not American where everyone believes they have the right to do everything they so wish?

BTW I'm knowledgeable on this subject because I'm an active scene member that spends about 6 hours a day reading everything about the scene.

xPreatorianx said,
BTW I'm knowledgeable on this subject because I'm an active scene member that spends about 6 hours a day reading everything about the scene.

Can I have your autograph?

xPreatorianx said,
BTW I'm knowledgeable on this subject because I'm an active scene member that spends about 6 hours a day reading everything about the scene.

BTW I'm a very awesome person because I say so and I spend all my time telling people so.

Your arguments mean nothing on a bigger picture, you're just another sorry member of the "technicality squad" (which also sometimes goes by the name of "piracy isn't stealing squad" and "homebrew isn't illegal man! squad"). You may be technically correct but don't understand the bigger picture.

xPreatorianx said,
BTW I'm knowledgeable on this subject because I'm an active scene member that spends about 6 hours a day reading everything about the scene.

xPreatorianx
Group:Members
Active Posts:9 (9 per day)
Joined:Yesterday, 23:02

Yeah... Active member my foot

xPreatorianx said,
BTW I'm knowledgeable on this subject because I'm an active scene member that spends about 6 hours a day reading everything about the scene.

Are you actually the guy that was interviewed? If so why not just say so (it does seem pretty coincidental). I have no disagreement with your stance it`s your prerogative to do as you wish, just don`t expect everyone else to allways agree with your point of view!

^ If you actually read what he wrote... I'll help you, he's not talking about activity here on Neowin. lol

LiquidSolstice said,

BTW I'm a very awesome person because I say so and I spend all my time telling people so.

Your arguments mean nothing on a bigger picture, you're just another sorry member of the "technicality squad" (which also sometimes goes by the name of "piracy isn't stealing squad" and "homebrew isn't illegal man! squad"). You may be technically correct but don't understand the bigger picture.

"You maybe be correct but I support Sony ****ing you in the ass anyway with lawsuits, even if you didn't do other than release a few homebrew games which I believe at the end will make my precious companies lose billions of dollars with piracy along with billions of dollars lost by Sony's baby cracking".

That's what you all Sony supporters are trying to say in this case. Sadly you don't believe in people's honesty anymore and that just speaks wrong about your person.

Rodrigo said,
^ If you actually read what he wrote... I'll help you, he's not talking about activity here on Neowin. lol

"You maybe be correct but I support Sony ****ing you in the ass anyway with lawsuits, even if you didn't do other than release a few homebrew games which I believe at the end will make my precious companies lose billions of dollars with piracy along with billions of dollars lost by Sony's baby cracking".

That's what you all Sony supporters are trying to say in this case. Sadly you don't believe in people's honesty anymore and that just speaks wrong about your person.

Yeah, let's be clear here, I don't support Sony and don't own a PS3. But no, this isn't about homebrew, and you damn well know it. On a technical level they may not have created the piracy but they made the biggest steps towards enabling it and were quite vocal about it. That's called doing something stupid and then yelling to the whole world that you did it.

LiquidSolstice said,

BTW I'm a very awesome person because I say so and I spend all my time telling people so.

Your arguments mean nothing on a bigger picture, you're just another sorry member of the "technicality squad" (which also sometimes goes by the name of "piracy isn't stealing squad" and "homebrew isn't illegal man! squad"). You may be technically correct but don't understand the bigger picture.

Wow I gotta love your idiotic generalizations. 1) I don't pirate games. 2) Homebrew isn't illegal AT ALL. If it is then why can you legally download programs on your PC such as VLC, MPC- home cinema, Notepad++, XBMC, and other programs. Those can all be considered homebrew.

3) Just because I like developing my own software, it somehow makes me a pirate and it also means I'm doing something illegal? Are you a 10 year old? Jesus. That logic is so horribly flawed it's unbelievable.

PS. No I'm not the interviewer. It just so happens that he put up a tweet with the link.

Rodrigo said,
^ If you actually read what he wrote... I'll help you, he's not talking about activity here on Neowin. lol

Amen m8. It's horrible that these people actually advocate raping their own rights. Most of the things these people advocate against is entirely legal but they believe it is illegal just because Sony lied to them.

"You maybe be correct but I support Sony ****ing you in the ass anyway with lawsuits, even if you didn't do other than release a few homebrew games which I believe at the end will make my precious companies lose billions of dollars with piracy along with billions of dollars lost by Sony's baby cracking".

That's what you all Sony supporters are trying to say in this case. Sadly you don't believe in people's honesty anymore and that just speaks wrong about your person.

xPreatorianx said,

Wow I gotta love your idiotic generalizations. 1) I don't pirate games. 2) Homebrew isn't illegal AT ALL. If it is then why can you legally download programs on your PC such as VLC, MPC- home cinema, Notepad++, XBMC, and other programs. Those can all be considered homebrew.

3) Just because I like developing my own software, it somehow makes me a pirate and it also means I'm doing something illegal? Are you a 10 year old? Jesus. That logic is so horribly flawed it's unbelievable.

PS. No I'm not the interviewer. It just so happens that he put up a tweet with the link.

Must be nice to sit up there on your pedestal of OMG IM AWESOME HOMEBREW DEVELOPER AND THE BIG MAN IS HATIN ON ME, with your finger jammed in so hard it's touching your teeth from the back. Meanwhile, when you float back down to earth from Idealistic-Land, you could open your eyes and see what's really trying to be stopped, and that's this thing called piracy. Do you really think Sony is that incredibly jealous of homebrew hackers that they'd "pretend" to wage a war on them in the name of piracy to cover up their jealousy?

You're so incredibly deluded I can't even begin to understand why you think you're right.

Let me wake you up, you poor child. The world is not honest. We will cheat, lie, steal, kill, pillage, and otherwise mess up the system of "people's honesty" and "good faith" to where we can't be trusted. This is a fact of the world, maybe you're just high or something, but let's be very clear here. People want free games way more than they want homebrew. These men/boys enabled them (however partially it may have been) to do that.

Knock knock, son. We're right here in the real world when you're ready to open the door.

Neowin
"Whether you agree with him or not, KaKaRoTo certainly doesn't fall into that "hackler" stereotype that has been spreading regarding the whole PS3/PSN hacking fiasco. He isn't bragging about what has been done, he isn't threatening Sony or anyone else until he gets his way and he certainly isn't in it to make a buck or two. "

KaKaRoTo said
"One thing though that I can say: Sony deserves everything it's getting. The users, the gamers don't deserve that small downtime of PSN when Anonymous was attacking Sony but Sony themselves deserved it. Now, about the PSN Hack, which I'm introducing in this question, but which is (probably) unrelated to Anonymous..."
I am dissapoint Neowin

"Neowin: Do you think Sony has succeeded in scaring off developers?

KaKaRoTo: "I don't know, I think it's two fold. First, many got scared by Sony, secondly, many were just there for their backup managers, once that was working they decided to say goodbye."
"
What developers are these?

Einlander said,
Neowin
"Whether you agree with him or not, KaKaRoTo certainly doesn't fall into that "hackler" stereotype that has been spreading regarding the whole PS3/PSN hacking fiasco. He isn't bragging about what has been done, he isn't threatening Sony or anyone else until he gets his way and he certainly isn't in it to make a buck or two. "

KaKaRoTo said
"One thing though that I can say: Sony deserves everything it's getting. The users, the gamers don't deserve that small downtime of PSN when Anonymous was attacking Sony but Sony themselves deserved it. Now, about the PSN Hack, which I'm introducing in this question, but which is (probably) unrelated to Anonymous..."
I am dissapoint Neowin

"Neowin: Do you think Sony has succeeded in scaring off developers?

KaKaRoTo: "I don't know, I think it's two fold. First, many got scared by Sony, secondly, many were just there for their backup managers, once that was working they decided to say goodbye."
"
What developers are these?

Geohot, Mathieulth, RMS, Graf, and many more. The scene developers are few and far between thanks to Sony. Geohot and Graf got sued for no damn reason and Sony cited piracy. When like I said above, neither of them directly or indirectly enabled piracy. Geohot's CFW wasn't even capable of running legitimate backups because it didn't have the required lv1 and lv2 checks which were put in with Kamew's 3.55 CFW. Likewise Graf only reintroduced linux support via an implementation of OtherOS using Vflash or virtual flash on the 16MB nor PS3's. Now Glevland is adding 256Nand support and is furthering Graf's hard work.

xPreatorianx said,

Geohot's CFW wasn't even capable of running legitimate backups because it didn't have the required lv1 and lv2 checks which were put in with Kamew's 3.55 CFW. Likewise Graf only reintroduced linux support via an implementation of OtherOS using Vflash or virtual flash

You can do with hardware what you want, but never with software. You have the right to 'use' the firmware, but not to decompile and/or customize it (I'm not talking about open-source stuff here since those are a little different). So messing with the firmware and then publishing it (or some of stuff you found in the firmware code) is against the user agreement (that you have to agree on, when you turn on the playstation for the 1st time).

(as for myself I don't really care about who creates what as long as you can't play illegal games, and people who do play illegal games get completely banned. I also never saw the use of linux on a ps3, when you can use the same linux on a computer.)

sirnh1 said,

You can do with hardware what you want, but never with software. You have the right to 'use' the firmware, but not to decompile and/or customize it (I'm not talking about open-source stuff here since those are a little different). So messing with the firmware and then publishing it (or some of stuff you found in the firmware code) is against the user agreement (that you have to agree on, when you turn on the playstation for the 1st time).

(as for myself I don't really care about who creates what as long as you can't play illegal games, and people who do play illegal games get completely banned. I also never saw the use of linux on a ps3, when you can use the same linux on a computer.)

You do realize the TOS isn't a legally binding contract right? Also for people that don't use PSN we don't have to comply with any TOS. Likewise the TOS just boils down to you violate these rules, and we are allowed to discontinue service for your machine. Which has always been fine with me.

Also if you customize a firmware using your own code that you publish without any Sony copyrighted code such as a BSdiff patch, or using PS3MFW it's not illegal. If it was illegal Sony would have taken down PS3MFW a long time ago. They can't simply copyright someone's work if it doesn't contain any of their code.

(as for myself I really don't care what a TOS says as it isn't legally binding. )

BTW Linux on your PS3 makes it easier to do all sorts of things from playing emulators, homebrew, and even developing your own software on it.

The Cell broadband engine is a one of a kind processor. It's actually pretty amazing. So it's pretty awesome when you can get your first program running on it.

Neowin: What if Sony decided to bring “OtherOS” back? Would that make a difference?

No, There will be those who still will not trust or like Sony even if they "do the right thing" and return it. Do people honestly belive that the homebrewers, hackers, crackers, pirates, and those who simply wanted to run linux on the ps3 will forgive sony? DO you honestly belive that they will relent hacking sony's servers?

Sony adding OtherOs back would be an empty gesture, as is the community saying that they will play within its confines just as empty.

Also isnt this person in canada? Even if the laws are similar in the us they are not the same, The DMCA exemptions do not apply here and how is he to know that sony is abusing the law as he told neowin? And there is no way in hell, at least in the united states, that simply publishing all the seceurity holes in a system such as the ps3 is leagal.

Einlander said,
Neowin: What if Sony decided to bring “OtherOS” back? Would that make a difference?

No, There will be those who still will not trust or like Sony even if they "do the right thing" and return it. Do people honestly belive that the homebrewers, hackers, crackers, pirates, and those who simply wanted to run linux on the ps3 will forgive sony? DO you honestly belive that they will relent hacking sony's servers?

Sony adding OtherOs back would be an empty gesture, as is the community saying that they will play within its confines just as empty.

Also isnt this person in canada? Even if the laws are similar in the us they are not the same, The DMCA exemptions do not apply here and how is he to know that sony is abusing the law as he told neowin? And there is no way in hell, at least in the united states, that simply publishing all the seceurity holes in a system such as the ps3 is leagal.

Actually yes it is legal. Security experts do it all the time for windows and all software. So why isn't it legal? Also you are confusing hackers, pirates, and sceners. THE PEOPLE WHO HACKED PSN HAVE NO RELATION TO THE PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP OR EXPLOIT THE PS3!!! For the LAST ****ING TIME.

Goddamn it's even said in the article yet people still believe ****ing sony and all the other ignorant ******* that believe they are related. The crackers that exploited PSN are called black hat hackers. These are the hackers that steal information and do fraudulent things with it. Grey hat hackers or the people responsible for the PS3 scene only destroy security on the device simply to add more features and capability to it. THEY DON'T have anything to do with black hat hackers or in previous years called crackers.

People these days group White hat hackers which improve security, grey hat hackers, and black hat hackers into one single definition which is black hat hackers. THEY ARE NOT the same thing.

xPreatorianx said,

Actually yes it is legal. Security experts do it all the time for windows and all software. So why isn't it legal? Also you are confusing hackers, pirates, and sceners. THE PEOPLE WHO HACKED PSN HAVE NO RELATION TO THE PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP OR EXPLOIT THE PS3!!! For the LAST ****ING TIME.

Goddamn it's even said in the article yet people still believe ****ing sony and all the other ignorant ******* that believe they are related. The crackers that exploited PSN are called black hat hackers. These are the hackers that steal information and do fraudulent things with it. Grey hat hackers or the people responsible for the PS3 scene only destroy security on the device simply to add more features and capability to it. THEY DON'T have anything to do with black hat hackers or in previous years called crackers.

People these days group White hat hackers which improve security, grey hat hackers, and black hat hackers into one single definition which is black hat hackers. THEY ARE NOT the same thing.

Uhm.

Such retardedness..."white hat hackers". That's just sad.

LiquidSolstice said,

Uhm.

Such retardedness..."white hat hackers". That's just sad.

It's just a terminology. But apparently it seems a little hard to understand, eh?

But definitely your intelligence irradiates with the kind of comments you make. Definitely.

Rodrigo said,

It's just a terminology. But apparently it seems a little hard to understand, eh?

But definitely your intelligence irradiates with the kind of comments you make. Definitely.

No, it's just a defense mechanism. If you don't want anyone to take blame for something, split their kind into two factions and use the white-hat/black-hat idea to separate who you like.

LiquidSolstice said,

Uhm.

Such retardedness..."white hat hackers". That's just sad.

Look it up you idiot. Google is your friend. It is a phrase that is used to describe a particular type of hacker.

Re: SDK --> The cost was slashed to around $10,000 FOUR YEARS AGO. You can also get just a debug kit for around $1,200.

To get approved you merely have to go to Sony with a viable game idea, maybe a demo or an app, or even a full-blown game developed on another platform (see: Angry Birds). There is no cost to be an approved Sony developer, just fill out the application and having something to show that you're not trying to get a devkit to jerk off with. With approval and licensing, you can get access to all sorts of software and middleware for free.

NOW, I will say that the way he's going about his hobby, keeping his PS3 offline and using it to tool around is fine by me, mostly legal even by US standards (I realize he lives in Canada). Buy games, play them, do whatever, and tool around offline and keep it to yourself and your friends. When you start spreading Sony's work (CFW) and codes to run pirated games (Hotz), then I (and the legal system) have an issue.

soniqstylz said,
Re: SDK --> The cost was slashed to around $10,000 FOUR YEARS AGO. You can also get just a debug kit for around $1,200.

To get approved you merely have to go to Sony with a viable game idea, maybe a demo or an app, or even a full-blown game developed on another platform (see: Angry Birds). There is no cost to be an approved Sony developer, just fill out the application and having something to show that you're not trying to get a devkit to jerk off with. With approval and licensing, you can get access to all sorts of software and middleware for free.

NOW, I will say that the way he's going about his hobby, keeping his PS3 offline and using it to tool around is fine by me, mostly legal even by US standards (I realize he lives in Canada). Buy games, play them, do whatever, and tool around offline and keep it to yourself and your friends. When you start spreading Sony's work (CFW) and codes to run pirated games (Hotz), then I (and the legal system) have an issue.


Geohot had nothing to do with piracy. Sony merely stated that to further their case. Geohotz CFW didn't even allow backup managers to run when he released it. WHich is why no one in the scene even uses his CFW. Likewise metldr keys by their selves WILL NOT ENABLE PIRACY. Also CFW aren't Sony's work. PS3MFW and other CFW's simply use a program called a bsdiff patch or even PS3MFW to make the CFW. Which means that they are not copyrighted by Sony. If you simply supply a patch or use PS3MFW you can distribute the CFW without it being copyrighted. Because it's your own code that is being used in the CFW. Sony can't copyright that.

Let's recap.

Geohot CFW does not enable piracy because it doesn't have the required lv1 or lv2 patches to allow backup manager support.

CFW using PS3MFW or diff patches is not Sony copyright. Otherwise Sony would be copyrighting your code which would mean software programmers can't make a living anymore.

Please people research what your talking about before you spread misinformation. It only adds to the numerous amounts of preexisting misinformation that mindless idiots will believe without giving it a second thought.

Also Sony are using the piracy argument in court because they simply don't have any other legitimate reason to sue people so they are just falsifying evidence. Both geohot and Graf didn't release a single solitary thing that enabled piracy. Sony have been spreading lies in their court documents and have been paying off judges. (You would know this if you were in the scene and pay attention to the court documents.) (They lie their ass off to nail someone.) Hell they even used IRC chat logs, and forum posts which can be easily forged to actually make a case against geohot. Both failed miserably.

Geranium_Z__NL said,
I agree with the Other OS bit, I definitely liked that thing ;( And now its gone.. (noticed it a month ago)

LOL! That's all I can say =D

That's right, Neowin. Give them the word! Make them more famous! We don't have enough problems with hackers yet...
Well, I always hear that **** about homebrews and stuff. Yes, he's right, homebrews can be monetized and it can help to reveal new talents. Big things can come from homebrews. But we're talking about a video game console. We need good games. I didn't buy an expensive console to play homebrew. I want games. Good graphics, good gameplay, good story, online gaming and everything that any PS3 user wants.
And to say "they have to make better games, so ppl will buy" is stupid. When an independent developer creates a crappy homebrew, like a bad game for iPhone, and ppl don't like it, he lost some time. A big company that creates a bad game for any console will obviously lose lots of money. With piracy, the will sell even fewer copies, and that can be really bad for this company. Big companies, responsible for great games, have crappy games, so they're already punished when the game don't sell like expected. And if the game is awesome, good. If you can get it for free, way better! That's what piracy consumers think! Welcome to the jungle, baby (to quote Axl Rose)!
Sony obviously won't support homebrew, specially because it would be an easier way for piracy. I had a PS2 for 3 or 4 years, and I NEVER bought an original game. Why? Well, everything here in Brazil is expensive if comes from any other country. Now I can afford original games, but that's not the reality for lots of ppl, and they run for piracy. Piracy MAKES companies lose money. And this will always make someone pay. Less money means they maybe have to cut some costs, like cancel a game, or delay a game, or even some worker's job.

What are you talking about? Games are being pirated as it is anyway. They really have nothing to lose now that their security is exposed and anything can be done on the PS3 now.

Tekkerson said,
What are you talking about? Games are being pirated as it is anyway. They really have nothing to lose now that their security is exposed and anything can be done on the PS3 now.

Not exactly. While the new firmware is still protected, the newest games will not run (at least not easily) in the old firmware. This can make some ppl think a little more before choosing to jailbreak the PS3. It will probably always be a cat and mouse fight. Hackers unlock, Sony lock, in an eternal loop. But Sony, just like any other company, will do whatever they can to prevent piracy.

Aghares said,
That's right, Neowin. Give them the word! Make them more famous! We don't have enough problems with hackers yet...
Well, I always hear that **** about homebrews and stuff. Yes, he's right, homebrews can be monetized and it can help to reveal new talents. Big things can come from homebrews. But we're talking about a video game console. We need good games. I didn't buy an expensive console to play homebrew. I want games. Good graphics, good gameplay, good story, online gaming and everything that any PS3 user wants.
And to say "they have to make better games, so ppl will buy" is stupid. When an independent developer creates a crappy homebrew, like a bad game for iPhone, and ppl don't like it, he lost some time. A big company that creates a bad game for any console will obviously lose lots of money. With piracy, the will sell even fewer copies, and that can be really bad for this company. Big companies, responsible for great games, have crappy games, so they're already punished when the game don't sell like expected. And if the game is awesome, good. If you can get it for free, way better! That's what piracy consumers think! Welcome to the jungle, baby (to quote Axl Rose)!
Sony obviously won't support homebrew, specially because it would be an easier way for piracy. I had a PS2 for 3 or 4 years, and I NEVER bought an original game. Why? Well, everything here in Brazil is expensive if comes from any other country. Now I can afford original games, but that's not the reality for lots of ppl, and they run for piracy. Piracy MAKES companies lose money. And this will always make someone pay. Less money means they maybe have to cut some costs, like cancel a game, or delay a game, or even some worker's job.

Homebrew won't enable piracy. Your an ignorant moron if you believe otherwise. Piracy =/= homebrew. THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON! Sony could easily enable homebrew support without opening up the system to piracy. Hell Microsoft did the same thing with the 360. I can take a completely unmodified 360 and start developing on it and it won't contribute or enable piracy. As you don't flash the DVD drive's firmware when you get homebrew working on the 360.

You people that automatically associate piracy with homebrew have no idea what you are on about. If homebrew was piracy, then I guess programs like VLC, MPC home cinema, PS3 media server, and ooh even Linux would be considered piracy. Try telling that to the developers that work on those and see where that gets you.

Also enabling homebrew on the PS3 wouldn't increase the price for the PS3 either. When I bought my PS3 it had OtherOS support. So I could develop for it. Now I can't. Just like you bought your PS3 for gaming, I bought my PS3 primarily for game, and application development. As well as linux support. Now I have to use a custom firmware to achieve 2 out of three things.

Likewise the piracy argument is so flawed it infuriates me. Not only pertaining to homebrew but just in general. If Piracy really effected any platform like the fat cat publishers say it does, why is the gaming industry the biggest entertainment industry in the world? Piracy has existed in gaming since the Amiga days, if not earlier. So how is it that the industry has gotten so big when piracy was always with it? Piracy only effects the pockets of the big cat publishers who are already living life as millionaires.

Ask yourself this, When a game developers makes a game and ships 10,000 units what does he get paid? Likewise when a game developer ships 1 million unit what does he get paid? Answer exactly the same! Game developers get the exact same pay each week as they would if they shipped 1 unit or 10 million units. They don't get a bonus, added vacation pay, or anything else. They get the exact same pay. The people who get raises are the publishers and fat cat CEO's. The ones who just sit back and wait for the game to ship while sipping on Pena Clotilda's.

Here's an amazing article on Piracy. It comes from an independent developer and is the only way to look at piracy. Don't ever listen to a stupid ass publisher or AAA developer when it comes to piracy. Piracy is simply a scapegoat to justify ****ty ass releases, shoddy ports, and bad customer service. Nothing more nothing less.

here's the link about piracy from wolffire : http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

Aghares said,

Not exactly. While the new firmware is still protected, the newest games will not run (at least not easily) in the old firmware. This can make some ppl think a little more before choosing to jailbreak the PS3. It will probably always be a cat and mouse fight. Hackers unlock, Sony lock, in an eternal loop. But Sony, just like any other company, will do whatever they can to prevent piracy.

Quite honestly the newest games are still working on 3.55 and below because of the developers ignorance. Sony encrypts the game with 3.60 keys, and then the developer releases a debug or retail update with 3.50 keys. So either way the games still work.

Likewise their are exploits for 3.60, someone just needs to release them. So there won't be any problems with future games because there are exploits waiting to be used. The scene is just waiting for the right time to use them.

Likewise the majority of people that have hacked PS3's don't really care about new game releases enough to go back to OFW. That's why a lot of people buy a second PS3.

Nice grab getting this guy, but no, sorry, just sounds similar to the entitled douches that fill a lot of the 'homebrew' scene. Play your homebrew on your PC/Linux and don't get upset when companies who sold a hardware/software product not for the use of homebrew try and shut you off. You can't just dance around the world trying to modify everything for your pleasure and not expect resistance, or when you get it start crying with hissy fits and petitions when there is perfectly fine promoted avenues for homebrew that doesn't involve trying to tear a closed off system apart and exploit it at 'normal' users bane.

Audioboxer said,
and don't get upset when companies who sold a hardware/software product not for the use of homebrew try and shut you off.
Even Geohot supports software updates. Don't confuse serious hackers with pirates.

@Audioboxer. I don't see your point. No one is crying or throwing hissy fits, except for the users themselves. As Potato said, don't confuse hackers with pirates. Developers behind home brew aren't throwing hissy fits, they're just proposing the idea to Sony which is actually a great idea since open development opens a lot of opportunities for new things on the PS3 and revenue for Sony without them having to lift a finger. Why wouldn't you want to propose such a great idea with win-win situation? Only blind people wouldn't accept such an offer.

PotatoJ said,
Even Geohot supports software updates. Don't confuse serious hackers with pirates.

Pretty much everything under these umbrellas is diluted nowadays, there doesn't seem to be much maturity or structure amongst all these hackers, crackers, pirates, homebrew lovers, etc. They're all stepping on each others turf and toes quite frequently, most notably the homebrew folk waiting on the hackers to exploit and tear something apart just so they can get pong on the go and promise us grandiose future plans of incredible unlocked functionality and features (the ps3 homebrew wishlists are a lol). Then the pirates jump in and use the now available 'hombrew' to make their loaders/cracks/custom software. They pretty much all interlink somewhere unless people go down official sanctioned avenues for the likes of homebrew, or at least approach it on devices that allow a basic concept of it to be programmed/functional within a closed environment. It all winds up though in the amount of people who just think they can do whatever they please nowadays, and when it comes time to "tell them off" or their plans to be halted by software updates, they act as if they're God and go bananas at these crimes being committed against them.

Do yourself a favour and create your homebrew somewhere it will be noticed, will be allowed, can be progressed without 'harm' to legitimate users and will save you hassle of fighting against resistance. In other words, stop using the PS3 as some showbiz platform because it's in the news to flog homebrew that will be forgotten in a few months because it simply cannot be developed to anything substantial as the PS3 is a closed platform and does not welcome homebrew from the angle you're trying.

Edited by Audioboxer, Jun 1 2011, 1:06am :

That can be said about any tool though. Just because a cook uses a knife doesn't mean he's a criminal for owning one only those who kill people with it are. Only the pirates themselves are to blame for Sony's "lost revenue" in piracy.

Tekkerson said,
@Audioboxer. I don't see your point. No one is crying or throwing hissy fits, except for the users themselves. As Potato said, don't confuse hackers with pirates. Developers behind home brew aren't throwing hissy fits, they're just proposing the idea to Sony which is actually a great idea since open development opens a lot of opportunities for new things on the PS3 and revenue for Sony without them having to lift a finger. Why wouldn't you want to propose such a great idea with win-win situation? Only blind people wouldn't accept such an offer.

I'm sorry but this paragraph sounds like it was written by someone clearly upset and grasping at straws to try and recreate the well loved illusion of the evil corporation. I mean, "sneaked in" features? Does this guy have a 10 year olds dream of how stuff gets made? "Lowly" developers? Yes good one on the path to creating that evil view of all the "poor people" at the bottom of the food chain and the big bad man standing over them.

""I think there are two types of people at Sony. First, the lowly developers who try to sneak in some features that we'll like (like OtherOS, I'm pretty sure it wasn't an exec's decision), and then you have those big guys in suits who probably never played a game in their life.
The guys making decisions are the guys who understand nothing about how the real world works and they only hear the excuses of those below them who say 'it's because of piracy' whenever they can."

Sony's a multi-billion dollar company; I'm quite positive they don't need people to defend them, much less people smearing others as douche bags that don't deserve it.

Audioboxer said,
Nice grab getting this guy, but no, sorry, just sounds similar to the entitled douches that fill a lot of the 'homebrew' scene. Play your homebrew on your PC/Linux and don't get upset when companies who sold a hardware/software product not for the use of homebrew try and shut you off. You can't just dance around the world trying to modify everything for your pleasure and not expect resistance, or when you get it start crying with hissy fits and petitions when there is perfectly fine promoted avenues for homebrew that doesn't involve trying to tear a closed off system apart and exploit it at 'normal' users bane.

Sony embraced Homebrew at the start. OtherOS allowed people to use the PS3 like a normal computer and run their own software including Linux. Don't forget that the PS3 is just a computer. It has a CPU, RAM, Graphics Chip. Just because Sony put some locked firmware on it and call it a games console doesn't mean it stops being a computer and once we as consumers purchase it we should be allowed to modify it however we want. I'm not renting it from Sony I own it and if I want to wipe its software and run Linux or utilise an older PS3 firmware where OtherOS is still present and play games from 1992 I will.

Audioboxer said,
Nice grab getting this guy, but no, sorry, just sounds similar to the entitled douches that fill a lot of the 'homebrew' scene. Play your homebrew on your PC/Linux and don't get upset when companies who sold a hardware/software product not for the use of homebrew try and shut you off. You can't just dance around the world trying to modify everything for your pleasure and not expect resistance, or when you get it start crying with hissy fits and petitions when there is perfectly fine promoted avenues for homebrew that doesn't involve trying to tear a closed off system apart and exploit it at 'normal' users bane.

Yet another moron has reared his head. I'll answer each part of your horrible and ignorant statements now.

No one is getting into a hissy fit. Kakarotoks is merely petitioning to request for a legal solution to homebrew on the system. Likewise regular users are bitching because SONY REMOVED AN ADVERTISED FEATURE. Now you may say hardly anyone bought the PS3 for OtherOS but I did among hundreds of others that are in the scene. Likewise OtherOS is just as important to us as PSN is too you. So what if you completely lossed PSN because Sony deemed it a security risk or it didn't give them enough profit? Would you still suck off Sony or would you get ****ed off? I imagine it would be the latter. So why can't users get angry at Sony for removing OtherOS? When I bought my PS3 it was an advertised feature, just like PSN.

Also people are allowed to modify their own products that they have purchased. Millions of people modify their cars, trucks, motor cycles, houses, garages, bicycles, computers, etc etc. So why can't we modify our own PS3? You need to wake the hell up and stop listening to the propaganda Sony keeps filling your mind with. It is entirely legal to midify your personal console. The only reason why Sony sued everyone is to make a point. That you basically "license" your console from them and they don't appreciate you modifying it. But yet I don't remember signing any legally binding contract that states I only license my PS3 at the time of purchase. PSN TOS only recently added that stipulation but I don't use PSN so it doesn't pertain to me. Likewise it's not a legally binding contract. If sony "licensed" their console too you, then why don't they take it back and repair it for me(for free) when it breaks down? If I have a license then Sony has a lot more obligations then they actually say when it comes to their machine.

Audioboxer said,

Pretty much everything under these umbrellas is diluted nowadays, there doesn't seem to be much maturity or structure amongst all these hackers, crackers, pirates, homebrew lovers, etc. They're all stepping on each others turf and toes quite frequently, most notably the homebrew folk waiting on the hackers to exploit and tear something apart just so they can get pong on the go and promise us grandiose future plans of incredible unlocked functionality and features (the ps3 homebrew wishlists are a lol). Then the pirates jump in and use the now available 'hombrew' to make their loaders/cracks/custom software. They pretty much all interlink somewhere unless people go down official sanctioned avenues for the likes of homebrew, or at least approach it on devices that allow a basic concept of it to be programmed/functional within a closed environment. It all winds up though in the amount of people who just think they can do whatever they please nowadays, and when it comes time to "tell them off" or their plans to be halted by software updates, they act as if they're God and go bananas at these crimes being committed against them.

Do yourself a favour and create your homebrew somewhere it will be noticed, will be allowed, can be progressed without 'harm' to legitimate users and will save you hassle of fighting against resistance. In other words, stop using the PS3 as some showbiz platform because it's in the news to flog homebrew that will be forgotten in a few months because it simply cannot be developed to anything substantial as the PS3 is a closed platform and does not welcome homebrew from the angle you're trying.

Actually no they don't link. The PS3 scene with homebrew and exploits to allow homebrew are not the same as the pirates. They are completely different indivdiuals and entities. If the homebrew, linux, and development scene was the same as the piracy scene, that would be saying that the PC piracy scene with reloaded and co are the same as the developers responsible for VLC media player, PS3 media server, MPC-homecinema, Linux, etc etc are the same. It's just ignorant to say the least. The scene developers created the CFW's so we could go to 3.55 without requiring a dongle. Which means everything that was used for the dongle payloads is now incorporated into lv1 and lv2 checks/patches to allow homebrew and on some CFW backup support. But what you do with the ability to backup your games is your own personal business. The Piracy scene and PS3 scene have absolutely no relation, ties, or connections. Otherwise you might as well say the PC scene has ties, relation, and connections to the PC software developers like the ones who worked on MPC - home cinema, VLC, PS3 media server, NotePad++, etc etc.

Audioboxer said,

Pretty much everything under these umbrellas is diluted nowadays, there doesn't seem to be much maturity or structure amongst all these hackers, crackers, pirates, homebrew lovers, etc. They're all stepping on each others turf and toes quite frequently, most notably the homebrew folk waiting on the hackers to exploit and tear something apart just so they can get pong on the go and promise us grandiose future plans of incredible unlocked functionality and features (the ps3 homebrew wishlists are a lol). Then the pirates jump in and use the now available 'hombrew' to make their loaders/cracks/custom software. They pretty much all interlink somewhere unless people go down official sanctioned avenues for the likes of homebrew, or at least approach it on devices that allow a basic concept of it to be programmed/functional within a closed environment. It all winds up though in the amount of people who just think they can do whatever they please nowadays, and when it comes time to "tell them off" or their plans to be halted by software updates, they act as if they're God and go bananas at these crimes being committed against them.

Do yourself a favour and create your homebrew somewhere it will be noticed, will be allowed, can be progressed without 'harm' to legitimate users and will save you hassle of fighting against resistance. In other words, stop using the PS3 as some showbiz platform because it's in the news to flog homebrew that will be forgotten in a few months because it simply cannot be developed to anything substantial as the PS3 is a closed platform and does not welcome homebrew from the angle you're trying.

Also I don't understand why you are so against homebrew? So you don't like being able to modify the hardware you purchased? If so that means you can't modify your PC and any software contained on it(which means no downloading new software or OS updates), you don't like or advocate modifying your car, motor cycle, house, garage, or any other possession you may have. What you talk about basically means that the company that sold you the possession has full rights too it. I hope to god we never live in a world like that as it completely stifles innovation, creativity, and undermines evolution period. Without hackers your OS wouldn't be as stable as it is, your car wouldn't be as safe and feature rich as it is, etc etc. Hackers of any kind are a necessary evil to allow technology to move forward. How the hell do you think Microsoft are able to patch windows every Tuesday? BECAUSE HACKERS HACKED IT AND RELEASED THE INFORMATION.

But I guess there will always be sheep in this world that will blindly follow big ben and the corporate elite without having a mind of their own. I hope people like you eventually become a rare breed and intelligence, critical thinking, and innovative thinking becomes the majority instead of the minority. As the world you love living in simply leads down a path where humans are complete slaves, and we live under martial law. Basically countries like China, and areas like the middle east would be the US only worse. That is the future if people like you become the majority. We are enslaved under a fascist and communist regime.

xPreatorianx said,

Also I don't understand why you are so against homebrew? So you don't like being able to modify the hardware you purchased? If so that means you can't modify your PC and any software contained on it(which means no downloading new software or OS updates), you don't like or advocate modifying your car, motor cycle, house, garage, or any other possession you may have. What you talk about basically means that the company that sold you the possession has full rights too it. I hope to god we never live in a world like that as it completely stifles innovation, creativity, and undermines evolution period. Without hackers your OS wouldn't be as stable as it is, your car wouldn't be as safe and feature rich as it is, etc etc. Hackers of any kind are a necessary evil to allow technology to move forward. How the hell do you think Microsoft are able to patch windows every Tuesday? BECAUSE HACKERS HACKED IT AND RELEASED THE INFORMATION.

But I guess there will always be sheep in this world that will blindly follow big ben and the corporate elite without having a mind of their own. I hope people like you eventually become a rare breed and intelligence, critical thinking, and innovative thinking becomes the majority instead of the minority. As the world you love living in simply leads down a path where humans are complete slaves, and we live under martial law. Basically countries like China, and areas like the middle east would be the US only worse. That is the future if people like you become the majority. We are enslaved under a fascist and communist regime.

This is a Playstation 3, a video games console, take a beta blocker or something. The only people with warped minds are the ones that grasp out at cars, PCs, houses, garages, communism, fascism, and other completely idiotic comparisons that have nothing to do with a closed environment video games consoles sold simply as a completely optional life entertainment product.

I mean seriously, re-read that last paragraph you wrote and then compare it to our PS3 "homebrew" scene which consists of 95% loaders, emulators and simple modifications to Sony's firmware. Then maybe some collections of completely ****ty games you'll play for 6 mins - Oh wait am I being harsh on the developers of these games, oh my, how I should shower praise on their first attempts at coding a game.... or, do them an actual favour and point them in the direction of platforms that will promote their games to the world, and maybe even pay them money! What platform you ask? The PC.... *gasp!* Or mobile apps are a good start, or you know, you could start officially developing on the PS3 if you actually care about the games you're making and your career. So, yes, these shocking homebrew software developments on the PS3 are clearly at the frontier of importance, such importance we should compare these advancements to our houses, cars, and even link them to this downfall of the human world we live in as it carries into the depths of rampant slaves and communism. Yeah okay, try floating that tripe in a history class in 20 years time. The PS3 is not the platform to try and make a song and dance about homebrew, Sony aren't going to give you your stage, get over it and go back to spending your time developing your homebrew on open platforms without consequences such as rampant piracy, cheating, hacking and disruption of an online service we were happily using before this ****storm of people with warped ownership pride and entitlement gone wrong came parading in.

No ones a slave, you don't need to buy, use or own a PS3 or any Sony product, yet the ones with the most upset in their minds seem to be knee deep in PS3 ownership. Way to go on taking away your own consumer rights by apparently making yourselves slaves instead of voting with your wallet and not supporting devices you seem to have so much angst towards for not being as open as a whores vagina.

Edited by Audioboxer, Jun 1 2011, 11:47am :

Audioboxer said,
The PS3 is not the platform to try and make a song and dance about homebrew, Sony aren't going to give you your stage, get over it and go back to spending your time developing your homebrew on open platforms without consequences such as rampant piracy, cheating, hacking and disruption of an online service we were happily using before this ****storm of people with warped ownership pride and entitlement gone wrong came parading in.
You seem to be confusing the people from the 'homebrew scene' with the people that caused Sony to turn off PSN. The prior want to play their own games on their shiny device, the latter want customers personal details. It is like confusing a bystander of being the criminal just because they know a little more about a crime than you did.
However, if you work for one of those anti-piracy law firms or in the equivalent departments or a large company with a similar stance, good job on the propaganda front!

Audioboxer said,

This is a Playstation 3, a video games console, take a beta blocker or something. The only people with warped minds are the ones that grasp out at cars, PCs, houses, garages, communism, fascism, and other completely idiotic comparisons that have nothing to do with a closed environment video games consoles sold simply as a completely optional life entertainment product.

I mean seriously, re-read that last paragraph you wrote and then compare it to our PS3 "homebrew" scene which consists of 95% loaders, emulators and simple modifications to Sony's firmware. Then maybe some collections of completely ****ty games you'll play for 6 mins - Oh wait am I being harsh on the developers of these games, oh my, how I should shower praise on their first attempts at coding a game.... or, do them an actual favour and point them in the direction of platforms that will promote their games to the world, and maybe even pay them money! What platform you ask? The PC.... *gasp!* Or mobile apps are a good start, or you know, you could start officially developing on the PS3 if you actually care about the games you're making and your career. So, yes, these shocking homebrew software developments on the PS3 are clearly at the frontier of importance, such importance we should compare these advancements to our houses, cars, and even link them to this downfall of the human world we live in as it carries into the depths of rampant slaves and communism. Yeah okay, try floating that tripe in a history class in 20 years time. The PS3 is not the platform to try and make a song and dance about homebrew, Sony aren't going to give you your stage, get over it and go back to spending your time developing your homebrew on open platforms without consequences such as rampant piracy, cheating, hacking and disruption of an online service we were happily using before this ****storm of people with warped ownership pride and entitlement gone wrong came parading in.

No ones a slave, you don't need to buy, use or own a PS3 or any Sony product, yet the ones with the most upset in their minds seem to be knee deep in PS3 ownership. Way to go on taking away your own consumer rights by apparently making yourselves slaves instead of voting with your wallet and not supporting devices you seem to have so much angst towards for not being as open as a whores vagina.

Actually the PS3 was advertised when I bought it as a "computer and entertainment system". Which means I bought it with 3.15 and OtherOS. So from that point forward I was interested in homebrew. Also you support homebrew on smart phones, and the PC when the only difference is the fact that they have official support. But when those devices first started out you had to hack them to gain "official" support. Which is why jailbreaking is legal in the US for phones. You also seem to horribly and ignorantly confuse the PSN hackers with the PS3 hackers. Again they have nothing in common. That would be like comparing a stand up citizen to a guy on death row. It's just plain ****ing ignorant.


But live in your closed and sheep like society. You would much rather fall in line then think for yourself. That's OK I meet people like you every day. But it still hasn't gotten any less pathetic.

But I guess people like me are a minority which is why we are perceived as an enemy. Likewise I'm outspoken so I tend to draw negative attention. Sorry that I believe in a society where you own your property completely after you buy it(unless there's a payment contract.), the world is filled with critical thinking, innovative, and above 100 IQ people that can think for themselves and run away from the tide instead of following it.

Basically the world isn't full of mindless, drone like sheep such as yourself. That would much rather listen to big ben and big establishment then form their own opinion and philosophy.

Very interesting interview! It really sheds light on the homebrew community and the people behind it all, something I'm sure many of us don't even bother to consider.

dead.cell said,
Very interesting interview! It really sheds light on the homebrew community and the people behind it all, something I'm sure many of us don't even bother to consider.

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