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Will Nvidia, Microsoft Split On Xbox 2?

configure   on 03 April 2003 - 02:39 · 26 comments & 2921 views

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One of the more interesting takeaways from Nvidia's upbeat analyst meeting yesterday is the possibility that the company will not pursue a "design win" for the second generation of Microsoft's Xbox videogame console.

Nvidia makes specialized graphics chips for Microsoft's Xbox, which hit the market in the fall of 2001. It was a high-profile customer win for Nvidia, whose main business is general-purpose graphics chips for PCs, but it has not been without problems.

Last spring, Nvidia and Microsoft got tangled in pricing arbitration when Microsoft, in an effort to cut costs on the moneylosing Xbox, wanted to pay less for the chips. In February, an arbitration panel sided with Nvidia, which had locked up pricing when the companies signed their original deal.

Analysts estimate that Nvidia's gross margins are about 25% on Xbox chips, compared with 30% to 35% for overall company margins.

There has been spotty demand for Xbox as Microsoft struggles to get game developers to write programs exclusively for its console. One of the most highly anticipated Xbox games--Halo 2, developed by Microsoft's game division--will miss the crucial holiday selling season. That may crimp sales of Xbox and, subsequently, Nvidia's chips, because sales of game consoles are driven by availability of games.

"Add these things up and it's a bad business for Nvidia," says Michael McConnell, analyst of Pacific Crest Securities, who believes that Nvidia should not and will not pursue a deal to make chips for Xbox 2, due in 2005 or 2006.

News source: Forbes - Will Nvidia, Microsoft Split On Xbox 2?


Whether Nvidia and Microsoft work together again will depend on the terms, says Brian Alger of Pacific Growth Equities. "Microsoft doesn't want to pay that much [for the chips]. One has to assume [it] will be more careful."

Indeed, the company is not without options. Microsoft could structure a deal similar to the one Nintendo has with its graphics chip developer, ATI Technologies. Nintendo does not buy its chips from ATI. Rather, ATI developed the chip, for which Nintendo owns the rights and is responsible for manufacturing. ATI is then paid a royalty on every GameCube and every software title.

Xbox-related revenue accounts for about 10% of Nvidia's sales, which totaled $2 billion in fiscal 2003, ended in January. Company spokesman Derek Perez says Nvidia does not have an agreement to produce chips for Xbox 2 (one could conceivably be forthcoming), but that "Microsoft is still a great partner and this is still a good business."

Nvidia did not update first-quarter guidance at its meeting, but analysts nonetheless came away bullish. Morgan Stanley says Nvidia "articulated a well-thought-out corporate strategy covering product roadmap, marketing and manufacturing. This confirms our view that Nvidia is positioned once again to enjoy a reacceleration of revenue growth, margin expansion and a significant increase in earnings power."

Pacific Growth Equities says the company "should be able to do better than consensus EPS of 10 cents and should have little trouble meeting our 12-cent estimate."

Alger says that one of the reasons Nvidia did not update its guidance is because Xbox sales will be slow until this May, when a widely anticipated price cut on all videogame consoles takes place.

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(3 replies) #1 jizness on 03 Apr 2003 - 07:40
Nvidia shouldnt produce Xbox2's chip not after they way Microsoft treated them with the certification of there DX9 card.
#1.1 Ghostdraconi on 03 Apr 2003 - 08:07
Yes I'm sure they'll pass up Billions in revenue over some little quarrel.
#1.2 galperi1 on 03 Apr 2003 - 16:08
MS did not treat them different. Nvidia said they would have a 32FP card and so MS being a little leniant to Ati allowed 24FP as the minimum for DX9. What Nvidia never told them was that the FX series is uber-slow in 32FP and gets it's ass handed by the 9700 series and therefore reverts to 16FP in most situations. It's not MS's fault that Nvidia couldn't hold it's word to 32FP
#1.3 Ponz on 04 Apr 2003 - 21:19
[neoquote=#1.0 by jizness]Nvidia shouldnt produce Xbox2's chip not after they way Microsoft treated them with the certification of there DX9 card.[/neoquote] .
(1 reply) #2 adam2001 on 03 Apr 2003 - 12:34
Yeah but the costs and the hassle involved in designing a chip specifically for the Xbox may outweight it. Besides if they dont get the deal then we will get the chip that would have been for the XBOX 2 sooner. Remember the XBOX with the GeForce 3 we had to wait months before we got our hands on it because MS said so.
#2.1 PeterTHX on 04 Apr 2003 - 02:05
? GeForce 3 was on time. So was GeForce 4. The XBOX chip is like a GeForce 3.5. nVidia learned a LOT making that chip and more than paid for itself because it's design influenced both the GF3 and GF4. nVidia really got cut down a notch because it thought it could dictate what MS should do with DX9. The development of the FX was one misstep after another. I LIKE nVidia, mind you, but went with a Radeon 9500 Pro moths ago rather than wait for an already outdated GFFX 5200.
#3 Kanecorp on 03 Apr 2003 - 13:52
i hope ms and nvidia stay close.. i think they go well together
#4 aitf311 on 03 Apr 2003 - 15:24
MS should just buy Nvidia (just kidding). I do hope they stay close. The Xbox graphics are by far the best in the console world and I hope it stays the same With Xbox Next
(1 reply) #5 acrophile on 03 Apr 2003 - 15:51
ATI might be a nice alternative. ;-) *ducks*
#5.1 Ti220 on 03 Apr 2003 - 16:24
I like the performance of an ATi better than an Nvidia card.
(2 replies) #6 Juan4Ever on 03 Apr 2003 - 20:01
who cares, i dont have a vieo console...
#6.1 Mav Phoenix on 03 Apr 2003 - 20:44
[neoquote=#6.0 by Juan4Ever]who cares, i dont have a vieo console... [/neoquote] And evidently you can't spell either...
#6.2 w33d on 04 Apr 2003 - 06:05
omg, he forgot the "d"... what a significant mistake!!!
(1 reply) #7 FreeWaRrior on 04 Apr 2003 - 01:45
I think ati shoud do the chip. nvidia should go work on catching up on their gfx cards with ati
#7.1 fubarshibby on 04 Apr 2003 - 07:12
HELL YEAH! dude you took the words right out of my mouth!
#8 VIcious_sid on 04 Apr 2003 - 08:58
I think Nvidia and Microsoft should split up, i dont't like microsoft`s business in the first place...x-box 2 must die..
#9 VIcious_sid on 04 Apr 2003 - 08:58
I think Nvidia and Microsoft should split up, i dont't like microsoft`s business in the first place... x-box 2 must die..
#10 SpaceManSpiff on 04 Apr 2003 - 14:33
ATI has an agreement with Nintendo for there upcoming console...
#11 blzd|sicmade on 04 Apr 2003 - 19:55
xbox is the best thing tht happen to the console world i hate playstation they suk its too overrated and there so many bugs with that system but overall screw consoles(except for xbo pc is the way to game
(2 replies) #12 oggiethefroggie on 05 Apr 2003 - 18:25
i never understood what the dreamcast did wrong. ati all the way, their performance is way ahead of nvidia's
#12.1 Knight' on 05 Apr 2003 - 20:27
[neoquote=#12.0 by oggiethefroggie]i never understood what the dreamcast did wrong. ati all the way, their performance is way ahead of nvidia's[/neoquote] Yeah, but do u think ATI will want to take up the xbox after the way MS treated nVidia?
#12.2 oggiethefroggie on 05 Apr 2003 - 20:53
plus their contracted to nentendo... crap, arguing with self.... i need fresh air
(1 reply) #13 scooterman on 05 Apr 2003 - 20:28
if ati made the chip only 50% of the xbox2 games would actually work and they would all be buggy and studder.
#13.1 Martog on 06 Apr 2003 - 03:45
And why would that be? I don't see Gamecube games doing that...
(1 reply) #14 David3k on 06 Apr 2003 - 14:50
Its cuz ATi cards have more than buggy drivers in truth...they just try to find work-arounds for those bugs. the hardware DOES work faster, but current ATi cards will always be buggy. ATi cards are less codeable graphics core. GC on the other hand, has a more flexible graphics system, so the quality/speed depends on how the software is made.
#14.1 David3k on 06 Apr 2003 - 14:52
PS: I said CURRENT ATi pc hardware is buggy. hardware bugs are taken out in newer cards. thats why there are versions for Pixel and Vertex Shaders.

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