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Doom 3 pirated en masse prerelease

Dice   on 03 August 2004 - 00:40 · 78 comments & 2537 views

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The BBC reports that thousands of illegal copies of the game are downloaded the weekend before the PC shooter finally hits stores.

Just days before the game was set to hit US stores, pirated versions of Doom 3 began to appear on peer-to-peer networks and newsgroups. While such occurrences are nothing new--illegal copies of games often appear before their release--the scale of the Doom 3 piracy is far wider than normal.

The BBC is reporting that thousands of copies of Doom 3 were downloaded over the weekend. At one point, the network's technology correspondent Alfred Hermida counted 50,000 peer-to-peer users downloading the 1.5 GB game--$2,749,500 worth of software at Doom 3's $54.99 sticker price. Other reports put the figure between 30,000 and 20,000--$1,649,700 and $1,099,800 of software, respectively.

Whichever figures are accurate, it is clear the piracy of Doom 3 is costing developer id Software and publisher Activision millions of dollars. However, it was unclear what steps the publisher was taking to stop the piracy, given that it had not commented as of press time....

News source: GameSpot



Interview conducted by John Houlihan.

What have you improved on from the original game and what are your aims for Prince of Persia 2?

Mallat: The very first ting we did starting Prince of Persia 2 was to look back at Prince of Persia one and really look deeply at what was not up to what we wanted the game to be. And from that we have identified three main areas...

...The fighting system, which was pretty redundant and repetitive, and no real variety in the enemies and stuff like that. We didn't have any bosses in Sands of Time and the game length was a little short, but especially we didn't have any replay value system.

That's pretty much the three big things we've worked on. Adding some real depth to the micro gameplay, starting with the fight system where we really wanted to give the player the control of the Prince rather than having the player triggering... Cool moves and animations are to be enjoyable to watch but we felt that this voyeurism trip was not what real gamers may expect from the game.

It had an advantage though, which we have been trying to keep and have kept which was that the control scheme was really intuitive which is a trademark in any P.O.P. game.

Can you tell us more about these areas of improvement?

Mallat: We've been doing a lot of trial and error to give controls to the player but also to not go too deep into hardcore stuff. We're going to have combos - even if I don't like the word - that will allow the player to really choose what he or she wants the Prince to do. We have more than 25 different combos, and a dozen are finishing moves.

Going deeper into the fight system, we are also giving the Prince the ability to fight with two swords. We've freed up one hand that was taken up by the dagger. And then the Prince also has the ability to steal secondary weapons from enemies using cool moves - like strangulation moves - which is really what I call intuitive gameplay. This is giving depth to the fight system.

Replay value - we're going to a have minimum of four different difficulty levels plus one huge thing I cannot talk about at this time [laughs] but I have to mention it - it will really give the player the desire and the opportunity to play the game again a different way.

And finally we have at least three different bosses in the game. These ask for what we call exotic gameplay, meaning you don't fight those guys the same way you fight all the other enemies. They call for specific gameplay, such as the huge golem where you have to find his weak point then climb on his back and do some rodeo stuff and smashing the head and finishing him in a very special way.

The game engine for Prince of Persia 2 is 25 percent more powerful than that of the original. What work have you done here?

Mallat: This is something we really didn't think could happen because the engine at the end of Sands of Time was at its maximum in terms of power and stuff. Last year I remember when meeting with Sony people and they were telling me about the PS2 capabilities and our game engine is matching the PS2 capabilities. Good to know, but we managed to improve the engine a lot - 25 percent more power to compute faster, 25 percent more in terms of memory usage and in terms of allocating different stuff to the CPUs in PS2.

It allows for more room, more textures, more special effects and stuff and the game running at a minimum of 30 frames per second which is cool because I don't think we have a game that needs to run at 60 frames per second. But going at 30 is allowing us to add a lot of stuff. Animation is taking a lot of memory in the game and I think it's something like 796 animations we have for the Prince alone. We've been able to add 150 animations in terms of new moves and that's thanks to the engine optimisation.

You've given the sequel more of an action focus, it seems. Has that been difficult a balance to achieve, between classic puzzle solving and the new emphasis on fighting?

Mallat: Not really because... Actually, in terms of gameplay mechanics this was not really hard to make except for the technological challenge. The real thing that asked a lot of work and questions of us was that we wanted every new thing to be justified in the "global" masterpiece, meaning everything has to fit. And this is also one trademark on Prince of Persia games.

For example, you're talking about puzzles. Yes we wanted it to be embedded with the fights, as well we want the fights to be embedded with the puzzles. But talking specifically about puzzles... For example in Sands of Time there were three main puzzles in the game. One was the very first one where you activated the palace defence system, the other one is in this huge library and the last one is in the big planetarium map.

Among those three puzzles, only one is good in my opinion. It's the first one. Because it's not only doing a puzzle that will open a door it's also a puzzle that linked to the story. By activating the palace defence system we justified the presence of all the traps in the game, so that's another dimension to the puzzles. And that's exactly where we wanted to go in Prince of Persia 2.

Having the guy scratching his head and having to find the puzzles just for opening the door in my opinion is kind of weak. This is exactly what we wanted to avoid and in Prince of Persia 2 the puzzles will always be linked either to the narrative gameplay - unfolding the story - or new events or to stuff that is worth doing the puzzle for.

One thing we've found interesting is the interactive cinematics, when the characters lock swords and stuff - can you tell us more about that system and why you chose it?

Mallat: I strongly feel that the videogame medium is different in the entertainment industry based on one thing - it's the pad, it's interactive, you have to do stuff. And this is what is cool. I think that developers that put cinematics in their game, it's only because they haven't found the right way to tell the story while still playing the game.

This is one reason behind our desire to bring what we call interactive cinematics. It's a mix between Tokyo/Japanese gameplay and Hollywood. What we call interactive cinematics in the game are moments where either the story is told or unfolds, where something is happening but you still play the game.

For example with the first boss where you lock swords but you still have to play, you have to press buttons so that you still maintain balance and there's a dialogue happening. It's so immersive. The player at this moment is doing exactly what we want him to do in a videogame - play, hear, understand, unfold the story, watch. You know, it's multimedia.

Have you conducted a lot of research into the likes of the tales of the Arabian Nights and the whole mythology era around the Prince legend?

Mallat: Yes, we've been conducting a lot of research, especially on Persian mythology. Each name in the game is a true Persian name that has a meaning - the Dahaka, for example. Dahaka is a meaning of fate. Some people say 'don't you fear that you're losing your Arabian Nights environment going darker' but if you read the Arabian Nights carefully there are some nasty moments, some really gory stuff.

So no, we haven't lost anything. On the contrary, we're gaining stuff, we're just talking about the same world from a different point of view but it's still ours. It's ours. I mean in our eyes it's Prince of Persia. It's a different way to say it, that's all.



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#1 hypoxiaicon on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:41
Woah... the BBC!.. Damn.. what would my parents say if they saw me playing it?
#2 vetDice on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:43
hhahhaha...so true
#3 slimshady165000 on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:44
6000 peers connected and no good seeders....comeon people, open up your heart
(1 reply) #4 epple on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:45
Loss of profit doesn't equal cost. (of course in the long term, but I don't think they'll go under that easy). And I bet 50% of all those who downloaded it did it just for the sake of having it.
#4.1 Garrett Socling on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:39
Exactly.

What is the percentage of lost sales? Who knows...but in no way does the number of downloads equal lost sales. No way no how.
#5 Zepolcire on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:46
I have always wondered with these types of reports, if they take into consideration that some of the ones who download it are people who cant wait a damn extra day till they get there copy. It always seems that they say how much money was lost because of the pirated versions, but never if it was made up in actual pruchases. But then again, I guess there is not really a way to tell.
(2 replies) #6 niel19_us on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:47
oookkkkkk
By the way it's just 50,000 I am wondering how much they will be getting from this game considering they spend last decade making this game. Let's just say the sold 1.5 to 2 million copies of d3 estimate will make roughly $96,232,500.00 THAT’S 96 MILLION DOLLARES (Of course government will take 10% of it)
#6.1 JoGro123 on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:49
Ah. 10%. If only it was true! (Actual corporate taxes can range anywhere from zero to fifty percent!!!!)
#6.2 Garrett Socling on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:40
Plus sales tax!
(1 reply) #7 trolane on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:49
i don't feel guilty, i downloaded it cuz i didnt want to wait till wed when my preorder should arrive.
#7.1 angrybrit on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:56
QUOTE (#7.0)
i don't feel guilty, i downloaded it cuz i didnt want to wait till wed when my preorder should arrive.

It's taking too long.
(6 replies) #8 shihchiun on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:51
and why is this news? what big game release isn't pirated?
#8.1 Dark Vageta on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:54
very true the NEXT big game to be pirated will be HL2
#8.2 yert* on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:48
Yeah, really?
#8.3 thenay on 03 Aug 2004 - 05:33
Maybe it made the news cos such a large amount in just one day downloaded it and also the name Doom 3, since Doom 2 came out ages ago and this game had such a big hype
#8.4 ork on 03 Aug 2004 - 06:35
QUOTE (#8.1)
very true the NEXT big game to be pirated will be HL2

Ya if it ever comes out that is
#8.5 lil_psc on 03 Aug 2004 - 08:19
most ppl dl pirate to test the game b4 they buy it

i mean comon who the fuk would want waste $60 for a sh*t boring game...

as for HL2 & CS i have my cd-key already (came with my 256mb 9600xt) *grins*
#8.6 shao on 03 Aug 2004 - 09:15
QUOTE
i mean comon who the fuk would want waste $60 for a sh*t boring game...


you mean hl2 / css yeah?
(2 replies) #9 dannymp3 on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:54
This game was ridiculously pirated. I feel bad for game developers, but many do just download the game to have it, and then buy it.

Besides, to play Doom 3 online, you HAVE to have a legit key. No keygen will let you get online and play Doom 3.
#9.1 Dark Vageta on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:55
agian very true i have mine pre orderd and i " downloaded it " and will still buy it to play online
#9.2 _Pablo on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:38
Yes there are many who will download it and play it whilst waiting for the pre-orders to ship (over a week for the UK) - but there are probably equally many, if not more who would have bought it if they couldn't get the warezed version but now will not. As for Multiplayer, that is already a done deal, with more that one multiplayer crack out there, with thousands of warez monkeys fragging away on cracked servers with not a legit key in sight.

It be devastating for id, as they only stand to loose out from the leak, as you can guarantee that the number of people buying it because of the leak are dwarfed by the number of people who will not buy it because of the leak (Because either they didn't like the game, or far more likely, because they have a fully working copy of the game and see no need to pay for it). Regardless however you can be sure that even with the leak, Doom3 is going to turn id a handsome profit and deservedly so.
(2 replies) #10 ryoohki on 03 Aug 2004 - 00:55
50% people that are downloading on P2P weren't going to buy it anyway, 30% downloaded it and will buy it anyway to get acces to patch and multiplayer, and 20% have it on their HDD and don't know why...
#10.1 axis on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:28
I am the 20%, i just want it to have it I guess. I need an excuse to fill up my hard drives, 500 gigs is just to much space for nothing.
#10.2 XxDesmus_MODxX on 03 Aug 2004 - 02:47
me too i know my system can't run it, i just want it to have it
#11 Soviet on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:01
2.7million! how could you do this to id Software?! You should all be ashamed!
#12 Hidea on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:02
not guilty... I bought the game
(1 reply) #13 Jorgo on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:06
Right, and where did YOU get your early copy from, Neowin? I see (or rather, see not) that the corresponding has magically vanished... are you news or are you reporting?
#13.1 Post-It Note on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:33
All stores should have them if they wanted it to be ready to be sold on Aug. 2 (tommorow). So that means they didn't have to steal it to get it.
#14 Jorgo on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:07
(article)
#15 corrosive23 on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:19
Dammit the BBC needs to stfu about newsgroups. Keep railing against p2p but leave usenet alone.
#16 altermind on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:22
only 50 thousand ?

thats not meany....

I'm buying the game tommorow at EB.....
(3 replies) #17 obake on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:22
If they offered a demo, then I'll bet there would've been a lot fewer people downloading the game illegally. People want to know if, a. they like the game, and b. the game runs on their system. Too many companies are forgetting this and don't release a demo until months after the game is released to retail stores, and then they complain that people are pirating it. Use your f***ing heads, people!
#17.1 sodapop on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:41
I agree, Most people want to see how it runs before they buy it.
#17.2 Marduk on 03 Aug 2004 - 03:35
Also agreed.
#17.3 cheesegoduk on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:01
They are releasing a demo..... but after the game has been released...... thats just stupid of them
#18 threetonesun on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:24
Why? If you can't wait 2 days for a video game, you're a total loser. If you don't want to pay for it, you're a poor loser, and if you think there's some magical third option that wouldn't qualify you as a loser, you're wrong. Loser.
#19 YeCKeL on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:29
Torrent i "SAW" had 27000 LEECHERS WOW and 6000 seeds hehe And sorry i am a huge loser i dont play for any software if i can deffently not my os ;p threetonesun why not keep it to your self to who is a loser, befor you start acting like one
#20 Raven on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:35
This doesn't take into account the people downloading for the sake of testing before plucking down $55. I grabbed a pirated copy to see if it is what I expected. It is and I now have a retail copy on order.
#21 qdave on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:40
DAMN WAREZ MONKEYS!!!
#22 Garrett Socling on 03 Aug 2004 - 01:43
Forget 50,000 downloads for the moment.

What really counts is the number of sales tomorrow and in the weeks to come.

We'll see...
(1 reply) #23 MrRogers on 03 Aug 2004 - 02:40
The question is...How many people go out and buy the game after downloading it?
#23.1 offroadaaron on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:22
lots that wanna play multiplayer
#24 JohnO on 03 Aug 2004 - 02:43
end the term warez monkey

at least say pirate

NUB
#25 norseman on 03 Aug 2004 - 03:01
and how many are downloading it off of irc or off of the private scene ftps?
(1 reply) #26 yizuman on 03 Aug 2004 - 03:03
Pirating Software is good. Aarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

#26.1 xStainDx on 03 Aug 2004 - 04:55
<===
#27 n3urotic on 03 Aug 2004 - 03:34
I didn't even seed it
(1 reply) #28 dougkinzinger on 03 Aug 2004 - 03:34
Well duh, folks, the biggest game in seven years (since "Quake" in September 1997), and they're shocked that it was pirated? Oh noes!!!!111111
#28.1 YaZoR on 03 Aug 2004 - 08:38
Quake was released 31st May 1996.
Quake II was released 30th November 1997.
Quake III Arena was released 30th November 1999.

I don't know where you got that date from. But I sure remember playing the Quake beta in early 96.
#29 ActionWes on 03 Aug 2004 - 04:06
I downloaded it just to make sure I could run it decently. If they would have had a demo available, I would have been more than happy to download that instead.
#30 FatCat on 03 Aug 2004 - 04:07
*hugs 600/400 seeder/leecher torrent*
#31 ShiZZa on 03 Aug 2004 - 04:40
like myself i admit i have a copy and i admit i have a hidden copy placed in back for me for tomarrow also. I want online play so i will pay for my copy.
(4 replies) #32 chaos945 on 03 Aug 2004 - 04:46
Hours spent looking for leaked beta: 5
Hours 'testing' it: 10
Hours Waiting for software to be released: 17280
Hours spent downloading pirated release: 23
Hours spent playing game: see second billing due in Sept 04

You could say they owe me money for all the hours spent on Doom, I'll put it at a healthy rate of say $30/hr and estimate around $519, 540.00 minus the $50 odd dollars it'll cost me when I finally comes to Canada.
#32.1 Synapse` on 03 Aug 2004 - 06:20
LOL UR ADDICTED MY FRIEND
#32.2 SIG on 03 Aug 2004 - 09:08
Pure genius.
#32.3 Devil Fish on 03 Aug 2004 - 09:25
QUOTE (#32.0)
Hours spent looking for leaked beta: 5
Hours 'testing' it: 10
Hours Waiting for software to be released: 17280
Hours spent downloading pirated release: 23
Hours spent playing game: see second billing due in Sept 04

You could say they owe me money for all the hours spent on Doom, I'll put it at a healthy rate of say $30/hr and estimate around $519, 540.00 minus the $50 odd dollars it'll cost me when I finally comes to Canada.

Is this guy for real?

So you spent 5 hours looking for a "Beta" product.
You spent 10 hours "Playing" it
You spent 17280 hours for it to be released (Do me a favor!)
You then spend 23 hours downloading an illegal copy

How on earth do they owe YOU anything.

Maybe you should take a long hard look in the mirror, open the curtains, take in some daylight, and get a life, you big freak!
#32.4 Garrett Socling on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:51
Did someone forget their medication?
#33 Masereth on 03 Aug 2004 - 06:37
People have mentioned those who have downloaded it but have already ordered it. But what the article fails to see (and all priacy articles for that matter) is that those who pirated it and had NO intention of buying it in the first place doesn't make id at a loss really does it? Yes there are some people who won't buy it because they warezed it, but there will be also a lot of people who just wouldn't of bought it anyway.

And truthfully, I don't think id is going to be 'overly' concerned seeing all of you are forgetting this company makes the majority of its money by licensing out its engines. Think about how much money they will make from the revolutionary DOOM 3 engine when you look at how much it cost to license the Q3 engine and how many games used it....
It's not like they are going to go bust because of a bunch of warez monkey's a lot of which have already ordered the game and just can't wait till their orders arrive...
#34 ork on 03 Aug 2004 - 06:43
Everybody knows current copy protection is a joke. it took 1 day for the relase and post on the P2P networks. Now Id spent so much time to get this game out, they should have as well invested in copy protection if they were worried about privacy. I guess they were willing to take the hit because of piracy and still make a decent profit.
#35 mko on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:29
Wow... do the math:

50,000 copies @ 1.75Gb each = 84TB of Doom3 tranferred in the past 48 hours or so(when the estimations were made). I think that value of 50,000 may increase to hundreds of thousands as people burn/LAN/direct upload to each other.
#36 tiddlie on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:34
It kinda proves how slack game retailers are as well to allow employees (as earlier reported) to get hold of the games early. Im pretty sure its against the law, and with the current Manhunt reports about retailers in the uk at least, id have thought they'd want to be a bit more secure about what games they allow people to get hold of and when.

Why dont the company just cut their losses also and just tell retailers to put it on sale now. The demand is there and retailers have copys in, so it would make sense for ID to cut their losses and release today.
(1 reply) #37 SOSAGES1 on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:41
maybe the doom 3 lads should of offered it for download them selves and all we needed to buy was the cd key for $10-$15
#37.1 Garrett Socling on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:52
Now that is an idea...
#38 zhouyang410 on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:47
yes,i had down it. so good.
#39 tigerofsweden on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:52
you know, if you assholes continue not to buy games, they will not develop games like this anymore, they need and deserve to make money!
#40 BTallack on 03 Aug 2004 - 07:56
Strangely, I noted the exact same thing as this article in my blog.
#41 Yakkob on 03 Aug 2004 - 08:40
As I stated here > http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=197891&st=0 A lot of the pirating could have been stopped by having a worldwide release. Hell, I have had mine on pre-order for over six months, and I won't get it until Aug 13th. So yeah, I am gonna dl it because I am fed up of reading about it everywhere from peeps who ahve bought it. I will just put my proper cd-key in when my legit copy comes. I think HL2 will have the bet idea with the whole STEAM thing, which SHOULD mean a worldwide release (Heh, I ahve had HL2 on pre-order for 18 months now )
#42 Gian-Pa on 03 Aug 2004 - 08:46
I think but DOOM fans will always buy Doom3, after "testing" it ;D
I'll not (i don't like this kind of game... multiplayer sucks... i have an old pc... )


Maybe there would be fewer downloads if there was a demo to test it.
And also the WORLD WIDE DISTRIBUTION is a VERY GOOD IDEA.
OR
Why don't u sell cd-keys over the internet and to download,play-online,install it u must put the cd-key... but with a little-bit more protected one
right

Last edited by 30452 on 03 Aug 2004 - 08:55
#43 j005u on 03 Aug 2004 - 09:29
theres over 20 000 peers on one torrent. and theres like 4 torrents like that.
#44 stupidape on 03 Aug 2004 - 10:18
I think not buying a game that has had so much work and effort put into it, and downloading it instead, is just preventing the developers from creating such high class games, and you would be shooting yourself in the foot by downloading it. If you cant afford to buy games, maybe this is one you should save up for (if you like the look of it that is )
#45 Tom Servo on 03 Aug 2004 - 10:24
removed

Last edited by 2 on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:57
(1 reply) #46 Beast_4thHM on 03 Aug 2004 - 10:29
You know what? for a price tag of 54usd they deserve it!!
#46.1 alister on 03 Aug 2004 - 21:17
So true. UT2K4 was on sale everywhere for $30 when it came out..... I bought it. I love Quake/Doom and most other ID games but I am not about to fork out $50 for a game. I will wait until it has been out for a while and they start reducing the price.

Alister
#47 sickpuppy on 03 Aug 2004 - 11:26
I gotta wait nearly 2 weeks in the UK (13th Aug) so course I'm gonna feckin d'load....
got it last night, bloody superb, will def be buying it WHEN it comes out.

you know a global release date would solve a lot of pirating early on.....
#48 insaneshaft on 03 Aug 2004 - 11:48
downloaded it to see if it was worth the 100 (au) pricetag.

it is.

expecting my bought copy tomorrow!

almost everyone i know (aussie quake scene) has downloaded and said they will be buying, or are waiting for a pre-ordered copy.

nothing wrong with try before you buy because in a lot of the cases, that will be the factor which gets them the sale. yes piracy = sales!

these media twerps doing piracy reports have nfi.
(1 reply) #49 SoLiD_MasteR on 03 Aug 2004 - 11:59
If there was a demo version i wouldn't download the pirated version.

I just wanted to see it as soons as i can before buying it.....
#49.1 Mystnight on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:04
indeed, Im only Downloading it to make sure it will even run well on my system, if it does, Ill buy it and blow sh*t up online
#50 ruskie on 03 Aug 2004 - 12:18
makes me laugh how people are claiming they are going to buy it when released or pre-ordered a copy. If it wasnt a requirement to a valid CD key for online play, I think a lot less people would be purchasing it.