According to research carried out by warranty provider SquareTrade, almost a quarter of Microsoft's Xbox 360s fail within two years, leaving it behind the PS3, and the console which proved to be most reliable: the Nintendo Wii. The research was carried out on 16,000 consoles, and all of those were brand new. In addition, failures which were due to accidents were not included.According to the report, the Xbox 360 has a failure rate of 23.7%, over a time span of two years. The PS3 has a failure rate of 10% over two years, but the Wii beats all of them with a considerably smaller 2.7% failure rate. But even when the usage of each console was considered (as it is reported that Wii users use their console half as much as Xbox 360 and PS3 users do), the Wii still remained at the top, and the Xbox 360 remained in third place.
Unsurprisingly, the ‘red ring of death' issue accounted for 12% of Xbox 360 failures over two years, with the remaining 11.7% being caused by other problems, such as disk reading and display issues. As for the other consoles, disk reading was the biggest issue reported for the Playstation 3, with power failures being the biggest issue for the Wii.
Naturally, the report isn't 100% accurate because some Xbox 360 users would have gone straight to Microsoft when they had issues with their consoles. However, for those who want all the juicy statistics, check out the report here.
The sad part is, if your 360 dies, you're kinda stuck buying another one anyway, otherwise what will you do with all your DLC and all your games? Return them for a lower value and then pay even more to re-buy them for other systems? You can't really return your DLC, some things may not be available on other platforms and vice versa.
Last edited by HalcyonX12 on 07 Sep 2009 - 19:19
I can not believe people actually buy the Microsoft 360 knowing there is a 54%+ failure rate. Two of my friends are on their third returned consoles each.
The sad part is, if your 360 dies, you're kinda stuck buying another one anyway, otherwise what will you do with all your DLC and all your games? Return them for a lower value and then pay even more to re-buy them for other systems? You can't really return your DLC, some things may not be available on other platforms and vice versa.
Microsoft pretty much replaces any broken systems anyway, especially hardware failures.
The only way you're SOL is if you broke it yourself.
I see what you're saying, but just taking a straight average isn't the most informative measure. It's like saying the average life expectancy for an American is 60 years old, because they died at 40 in 1776 and 80 today. That doesn't take into account all the advances in medicine which will never be reversed.
So while the a priori probability of a 360 dying may be 23%, as soon as you know your system's build date that probability changes dramatically, just as knowing a person's birthday between 1776 and 2009 will tell you their life expectancy.
Considering the 360 came out well before the PS3, I'm sure this is a fair study.
Anyway this is not news at all, the fact is that X-Box has bad design, bad specs when compared (can it be?) to PS3 and is poorly built. Yet another failure that Microsoft tried to cover.
Anyway this is not news at all, the fact is that X-Box has bad design, bad specs when compared (can it be?) to PS3 and is poorly built. Yet another failure that Microsoft tried to cover.
HUH
Anyway this is not news at all, the fact is that X-Box has bad design, bad specs when compared (can it be?) to PS3 and is poorly built. Yet another failure that Microsoft tried to cover.
Sorry i cant hear you over the sound of how awesome i am
Its xbox or XBOX first of all. Second bad design? Em no, bad hardware yes, bad design. The designs simple and easy. Blu ray oooo big deal. Sonys own $200 blu ray players that came out right after the ps3 do better then the ps3 itself does, so dont even give me that excuse. Specs? Lmao they both have there specs and the ps3 is the real "useless" one since they made it so damn hard to code for.
The specs are even for both system. xbox has 3 3.2ghz power pc cores and the ps3 has 6 cells. Ooh big deal. If the ps3 was easier to code for yeah amazing system, but as of now, besides the exclusives, any game made almost looks the same on both systems. Some are noticeable different but other then that, yeah no.
(snipped)
Last edited by GreyWolfSC on 06 Sep 2009 - 13:23
It doesnt say anywhere that they're looking "at the first" two years since the release of the console. It says "over the span" of two years. I think it's safe to assume that if they are releasing the data now, they mean the last 2 years.
Its xbox or XBOX first of all. Second bad design? Em no, bad hardware yes, bad design. The designs simple and easy. Blu ray oooo big deal. Sonys own $200 blu ray players that came out right after the ps3 do better then the ps3 itself does, so dont even give me that excuse. Specs? Lmao they both have there specs and the ps3 is the real "useless" one since they made it so damn hard to code for.
The specs are even for both system. xbox has 3 3.2ghz power pc cores and the ps3 has 6 cells. Ooh big deal. If the ps3 was easier to code for yeah amazing system, but as of now, besides the exclusives, any game made almost looks the same on both systems. Some are noticeable different but other then that, yeah no.
(snipped)
- Design
XBOX 360: http://goluck.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/05-13xbox_360.jpg
Microsoft's XBOX lines are the ones of a white brick. Reminds of an electrical appliance, like a toaster, something that you usually keep in the kitchen.
Some consoles have a metallic greenish DVD tray, making it look like that part doesn't even belong there.
The controller is chunky and it looks very outdated, looks like it came from a 90's game console with all the colorful little buttons.
With bright colors and an excessive bright light it draws unnecessary attention to it when operating situated in front of the user. Doesn't blend with the other entertainment devices you might have in the room.
Playstation 3: http://gamehall.uol.com.br/gamesgeral/imag...firmware150.jpg
Simple and elegant lines. Blends well with other entertainment devices, it was designed with that in mind.
Controller is advanced and at the same time simple, ergonomic and easy to use. No unnecessary flashy colorful buttons.
- Hardware:
Xbox 360 is statistically least reliable console
Complete failure here. Due to it's poor design, the red ring of death is a very common issue. It also might trash your games due to a defective drive.
- Media features:
XBOX 360: can play your DVD movies, just like you can also do with a $25 DVD player!
Or, with a few extra $, you could add an HD DVD drive (now discontinued), and play your HD DVD movies. Oh wait... The HD DVD backed up by Microsoft was a complete failure and is now dead and buried. If you entered the fail boat of the HD DVD and purchased one of these drives too bad for you, sucker.
XBOX 360: advanced media features with a Blu-ray drive. Still one of the best options if you are going to buy a Blu-ray player. Playback of movies is fluid, aided by the PS3 hardware.
(...)
(snipped)
Last edited by GreyWolfSC on 06 Sep 2009 - 13:26
Playstation 3: advanced media features with a Blu-ray drive. Still one of the best options if you are going to buy a Blu-ray player. Playback of movies is fluid, aided by the PS3 hardware.
Couldn't edit original post anymore, sorry.
Considering the 360 came out well before the PS3, I'm sure this is a fair study.
One year is not "well before" and the continued high failure rate is hardly shocking. while a nice console, the hardware quality on the 360 has been a joke.
I actually agree with the colour aspect here. Should've been black from the start, but there is nothing wrong with the shape. At least it's not a convex topped unstackable black monolith like the PS3.
Metallic green? The DVD drawer front is chrome. None have ever been metallic green. Maybe you're looking at a reflection of a cactus or something.
Rubbish. The Xbox 360 controller is widely acknowledged as having the most comfortable controller of the two next-gen consoles. Also is there really any difference between pretty coloured gem buttons, and plain old black buttons with coloured shapes printed onto them?
Bright light? You must have very sensitive eyes. The green ring (of which only 1 segment lights up in normal use) isn't bright at all. Also unless you have a habit of holding the controller in front of your face while you play, it's not obtrusive in the slightest.
Again, I agree with the color aspect of the 360. White looks odd in an entertainment centre, but thats what the Elite is for. Other than the colour though, it doesnt look out of place at all. In fact I'd say the PS3 (at least the legacy one) looks more out of place. It's a huge curved top monstrosity. Simple lines and elegance my arse.
Complete failure here. Due to it's poor design, the red ring of death is a very common issue. It also might trash your games due to a defective drive.
Well actually its a 25% failure here, not complete (100%). Besides, I've never personally heard of anyone's discs being scratched by the 360. A few stories on the net yes, but thats hardly a common issue. I've have however a friend whose PS3 knackered their copy of Motor Storm or whatever it's called.
HD-DVD was indeed a failure, but it failed because Sony chose to market their console as a cheap Blu-Ray player rather than as a hideously expensive games console (a fact they're now regretting after finding themselves in last place). Despite offering extremely cut price players, the HD-DVD camp just couldn't compete with the install base of PS3 based Blu-Ray players out there. Not to mention all the rumoured shady deals done in the shadows between Sony and it's allies and the movie studios who in the end decided to dump HD-DVD.
HD-DVD actually the better of the two formats in everything but disc capacity and video/sound quality (where it is equal). It was cheaper to produce as it could use existing production lines with only minor mods and had a complete specification. In contrast, Blu-Ray required entirely new production lines, meaning more expensive discs. Additionally the Blu-Ray format is still not an internation standard which means that Sony and the BDA can add stuff to it and change the specification whenever they like.. hence the need for frequent firmware updates.
Essentially HD-DVD was the consumer friendly choice. Unfortunately the consumer wasn't the one to decide which would win. At the end, standalone HD-DVD player sales were outstripping standlone Blu-Ray player sales. Had Microsoft have integrated a HD-DVd player into the 360, things would most certainly have been different.
Also, the "the ps3 is still the best choice for a blu-ray player" argument doesn't wash. Up until the slim was released, it was still cheaper to get a 360 and a separate blu-ray player. I've not made the comparison with the slim yet.
Heres one you didn't mention for obvious reasons. The Xbox 360 has a far superior user interface as well as a vastly superior online service. Only in the most recent firmware have Sony added your points and online friends to the home screen.
Another one you missed is that the Xbox 360 is much much easier to code for, meaning lower development costs. This has also helped to attract a much greater number of exclusive titles on the 360 than the PS3.
In the end, each person has to make their own decision. But given the choice again, I know which I'd chose.
Last edited by TCLN Ryster on 06 Sep 2009 - 14:45
I know, they should change the study to make Microsoft look better.
What does this say about Microsoft, since this is one of there best working projects. Still yet to turn a profit, but probably not too far away.
[quote=Sikh said,]
Playstation 3: http://gamehall.uol.com.br/gamesgeral/imag...firmware150.jpg
Simple and elegant lines. Blends well with other entertainment devices, it was designed with that in mind.
Controller is advanced and at the same time simple, ergonomic and easy to use. No unnecessary flashy colorful buttons.
[/quote]
Funny you mention outdated controller design, since the PS3 controller looks nearly the same as the PS1 and PS2 controllers.
Take for instance the report from "SquareTrade" covering a mere 16000 game consoles sold to their customers. To extrapolate one firm's numbers to extend across the millions of consoles sold through various vendors and such significantly dilutes the numbers. Would you consider less than 0.1% of all consoles sold indicative of all consoles sold?
If I sold one Wii, one PS3 and one 360 to friends and they all lasted more than 2 years, I'd have to report a 100% reliability rate for all three. Would that peak anyone's interest?
Take for instance the report from "SquareTrade" covering a mere
16000
game consoles sold to their customers. To extrapolate one firm's numbers to extend across the millions of consoles sold through various vendors and such significantly dilutes the numbers. Would you consider less than 0.1% of all consoles sold indicative of all consoles sold?
If I sold one Wii, one PS3 and one 360 to friends and they all lasted more than 2 years, I'd have to report a 100% reliability rate for all three. Would that peak anyone's interest?
Have you ever done a statistics course? That 0.1% can very well be representative if it can be proven that those 16000 consoles they used in the report have the same chances of failure as any other set of 16000 consoles.
But it's kinda pointless to respond to your thread. Next time, go read a book on statistics before making a fool of yourself.
But it's kinda pointless to respond to your thread. Next time, go read a book on statistics before making a fool of yourself.
They are justified in saying something along the lines of "In our experience," or "Based on our interpretation," but that cannot in and of itself be made applicable to the industry as a whole and should also include a margin of error based on the fact that their results represent, by far, an almost irrelevant percentage of the total number of consoles sold. All of the consoles sold well over 100,000 in their first month making their figures barely representative of 10% of one month's sales and far less representative of the number of consoles sold in 24 months.
Additionally, they do not quantify how many of each console was sold during that period. Therefore if 75% of the consoles were 360's it is to be expected that those would have a higher failure rate than the others by virtue of the number of consoles sold.
Might as well say that out of 16000 people, some of whom are Christian, some of whom are Jewish and some of whom are Athiest, a plurality believe in God, therefore God must exist.
Ok, you bring up a decent point about how they got the details, but that doesn't automatically invalidate the study, just because you don't like the results.
Your last point is ridiculous. They are not drawing a conclusion other than what the numbers give them. I think we all know about the 360s hardware problems, even Microsoft admitted they were bad, and put aside a $billion for that reason.
If you transmit 1TB instead of 10MB, you will get the same bit error rate. There's a point at which increasing the size sample will not provide that much more accuracy. And this is the case. The ONLY assumption one makes is that crappy 360s are evenly distributed over the entire population. And even if this wasnt the case, did you took the time to check their policies? They do not limit their warranties to a single retailer or chain of distribution. You buy your electronics, get a quote from them and insure your stuff. It doesnt get more RANDOM than that. You don't prove assumptions, that's what they're called assumptions.
2) If 75% of the consoles were 360s, the 360 will not have a "higher failure rate" just because of this fact. They will have a more accurate failure rate figure than the others. If it so happens that the 360 has a higher failure rate than the others, this has nothing to do with the sample size. Obviously the wii wouldn't get the highest failure rate of 75% of the consoles had been Wiis, the 360 would still get it.
3) And you got your example wrong. If you query 16000 people, and 25% are christian, 25 % are jewish, 25% and the rest are atheist, the conclusion you can draw is that out of ALL the people inside a given population, 25% are christian and 25% are jewish. Providing that the jews, christians and atheists surveyed were evenly distributed over the entire population (which is never the case with people, they tend to group together)
4) They ARE taking into a account others. They provide warranty on electronic stuff bought anywhere. You buy your stuff, you get a quote from them, pay and get your thing insured. So they are not a single retailer, they get consoles from all retailers, or at least many of them. They just offer warranties. And when it comes to failure rates, there's NO ONE able to provide a a better failure rate than the ones that have to deal with the failed stuff. They are being generous with the 360 figures by admitting that they are bypassed by those who send their 360s directly to microsoft because of the RROD. So it's safe to assume that the 360 failure rate is even higher than the one reported here.
Bottom line here? You dont understand how this things are calculated. 16k is one hell of a number for this kind of thing. Perhaps 2000 consoles would be enough to determine an accurate failure rate of the 360. As hard as it is to believe.
Why would anyone here bother reading something that doesn't praise Microsoft as the greatest thing ever?
I don't know what kind of (snipped) you think I am, but the 360 is my only console and I have somewhere in the league of 30 games for it. I love my 360 to death, but it's not exactly a shocking revelation that the 360 is the least reliable console.
Last edited by GreyWolfSC on 06 Sep 2009 - 13:31
I haven't even bothered calling microsoft. I'm done with these POS console. Trading all my games in for store credit for MW2 and other goodies for my PS3. (which i've had since launch without any probs)
I have a WII also, which I baught on impulse. Sits there collecting dust. soon to be on Ebay.
And my Wii has more dust than yours
Also, with all your whining you have to realize if they were all red rings, do you keep it standing up, is it hot where you keep it, are vents blocked, do you have pets, do you smoke, etc. All comes into play.
Im not saying some people dont go thru a lot. But depends on the situation. I know of a customer who went thru 5 and they sent him a BRAND NEW 4 day old Arcade and it still died. Found out why, its hot(keeps it on his entertainment center, whcih is behind his tv(:|) and has pets. When I looked inside the console with a led flashlight you wouldnt BELIEVE WHAT I SAW. Rediculous amount of pet hair and dust. I sprayed it out, turned it on and vala worked perfect.
Also, PS3's crap out like nothing, sonys just hiding it. Lately a lot of people are coming in and say there blu ray drive died, and ive realized over the last 2 years, its been the 60s and 80s. Some 20s. Thats sad. The fact that 2 years after, if your 60 dies, Sony makes you pay, if you threaten them by saying "ill never buy a sony product and tell people about this problem" they end up giving you a replacement, but cant give you the same replacement. This one customer called sony in front of us and started bitching them out and they said "sir you will have to pay $180 and we cant guarantee you the same console" so he said "IM NOT PAYING, this is bull**** you guys say the 360 is so unreliable what is this bull****? if this is such a "rare" problem, then honor it and fix it, its the drive, nothing else. Or im just gonna start telling people the company you guys are, and then youll loose customers. Instantly the rep changed her tone and started saying "alright we can do a honor replacement for you, but no the same console, you will get a refurbed 80(new) or a slim but for this youll have to wait 2 weeks. He said, nope. I want MY system back. I dont care if it takes you guys 4 weeks, I want my 60 gig BC $600 system back. I upgraded the hard drive and everything. She said they dont replace the drives anymore, they do a drop and pickup swap.
All I did was laugh when he got off the phone because sonys so good at hiding there statistics. I love it. Yes 360s failed, Duh. But as of late, the jaspers kick ass. PS3's still have there issues. Slims none yet but thats because they learned from the PS2 slim ordeal. He then said he is gonna looked into it.
He came back today and within 3 days, found a blu ray drive replacement for the ps3 on ebay for $58 shipped and he overnighted it and it works perfect. Voided his warranty but sony doesnt give a **** about him so he did it. Also sent his old drive back to the wholesaler on ebay, so the guy can fix it or use it for parts.
Anyway, this guy also bought an elite today and live and another controller and yeah, he said he's gonna trust the 360 because he's always loved it but never loved microsoft and the failure rate. But he is gonna give it a try and we will see what happens. As of now, he isnt too happy with sony and is off that bandwagon. Sold a few games. Only is keeping it becuase of his rare/valuable(to him) ps2 collection(okami, dot hack(all of them), sniper elite, mvc2, all mgs, gt's, etc) all in perfect condition too, its amazing, i like this guy. He's a regular. Also for exclusives(gt5/gow3, then he's done unless they do something amazing.).
ventilted? very much so.
hot atmosphere? central AC always set to 70.
do i smoke? no.
pets? no.
overnight a box? yes i know, i did state this was my 3rd refurb.
a NEW system shipped? no just ANOTHER REFURB.
whining? was i?
as for your story, save it. for every ps3 story you have, there are countless others on your beloved xbox, including mine. i could care less for anyone elses. only story that matters here is mine.
im simply stating MY experience, with MY consoles. all my xbox's have failed without reason, right along with countless others.
in MY book its a VERY UNRELIABLE POS, live with it. I am.
Naturally, the report isn't 100% ( 10% accurate, at best, statistically speaking, with a statsitical +0/-100% margin of error... ) accurate because some Xbox 360 users would have gone straight to Microsoft when they had issues with their consoles. However, for those who want all the juicy statistics, check out the report here.
You might as well pick 16000 people in the USA if Obama has fixed all the problems and expect that to reflect on the entire nation (coincidentally, my home town has 3 times that many people in it and we're a distant suburb of a suburb of Riverside which itself is a suburb of Los Angeles)... but oh wait, they already to that.
I'll say it again- lemmings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference
Seriously. These people come with here with their fanboy hats trying to lecture people on statistics of all things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference
Meh. This is not a completely random sample of 16000 consoles, evenly distributed between the three console makers. They do not break down how many of each console is in their aggregate group, again making the statistic irrelevant. To simply state "Out of more than 16000 consoles, 2.7% of Wii's broke" means nothing when you do not know how many Wii's were in the sample to begin with.
Last edited by Regression_88 on 07 Sep 2009 - 01:00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference
Seriously. These people come with here with their fanboy hats trying to lecture people on statistics of all things.
... which "Fanboy" hat does that put me under, "statistically speaking"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference
Seriously. These people come with here with their fanboy hats trying to lecture people on statistics of all things.
... which "Fanboy" hat does that put me under, "statistically speaking"?
Well, you are some sort of fanboy, since you seem to feel the need to keep making the same point over and over again, and each time you are wrong.
Doesn't really make sense running a test that will be two years outdated by the time it's finished. Especially with technology.
They just took statistics of maintinance records.
Then
Naturally, the report isn't 100% accurate
This needs to be removed as it is False information
When is anything 100% correct? By your theory, Obama shouldn't be president, because some people didn't vote, and other voters were manipulated, and some votes were miscounted.
Newer revisions of The PS3 still use poor quality cheap lasers int he optical drives, which was also a problem through the whole life of the PS2.
Microsoft may have had the most initial problems, but they listen, learn and fix the problems over time. Sony do not.
Whats a 00.1%? Adding zeros make it look cooler or what? If so I say its 000.1% instead.
2) 99.9%
+ 00.1%
-----
100.0% (000.1 is still 00.1, so is 0000000000000000.1, what's your point exactly?)
2) 99.9%
+ 00.1%
-----
100.0% (000.1 is still 00.1, so is 0000000000000000.1, what's your point exactly?)
I think he was just pointing out your superfluous-ness
yes smart ass its around 2% now with the jasper chipset .
GO for it neowin warn me again for pointing out this guy is an ass
your dad does not know how to take care of electronics.
becuae the odds of 6 360's going bad on a single user are out of this world you would have won the lottery .
unless all 6 of the 360's are 16.5amp units launch boxes.
i call Lies unless we see screenshots of 6 receipts.
how is that for you Ozzy76
Get a membership at Gamestop. They give extra credit for multiple used game trade-ins.
how widespread the hardware issues with the 360 useed to be Jaspers donot fall into this topic at all
false 100% any bit of research would prove falcons are less likely to get rrod and jaspers have fixed it 99% now
That is the major problem with the 360 failure rate. It's not that they fail or how often they fail but that stupid consumers who must hate money keep replacing them at their own expense. You don't get to do that and then complain about any build quality ever on anything...EVER.
There are many ways to recoup the cost and even ways to spend nothing. (wait for an emulator for example)
But yes that is the exact dialog people have in their head when they pull the trigger on a new 360. At times like that I remember that a smart consumer never throws good money after bad.
It's about sending a message and meaning it and standing by it and that might be quite difficult for some people. If you don't want to do that then that's fine too but just don't complain about build quality ever again.
What about those that were assured that the failure rate was well within the 3-5% range?
They didn't think they were making such a stupid decision, and went ahead buying games and content.
I laugh at people who think it unfair to use 2 year old consoles in the statistics. Obviously they are good brainwashed wage slaves. "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
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