HD DVD leads Blu-ray in Europe

Toshiba, mainly through its US$499 HD-E1 HD DVD player, accounted for an 85% market share of next-generation blue-laser optical disc drives/players/recorders sold in Europe in January of this year, according to industry sources in Taiwan. Sony and Samsung Electronics, proponents of the competing Blu-ray Disc (BD) format, together accounted for the remaining 15% of the European market, the sources said, citing statistics by GfK Marketing Services. Prior to the launch of the HD-E1, Toshiba's European market share for blue-laser products in 2006 was only 58%, the sources pointed out. Though HD DVD currently has a lead in Europe, the upcoming launch there of Sony's Blu-ray equipped PS3 game console is expected to heat up competition between the two formats.

Although fast growing demand for HDTV (high-definition TV) is expected to be increase the demand for HD DVD or BD drives/players/recorders, prices as low as US$500 are key to the saleability of such blue-laser products, the sources noted.

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85% = 8,200 movies for HD-DVD

15% = 1,834 movies for Blu-Ray

See for yourself at http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/02/uks_miniscule_h.html

If half of the over 1,000,000 people who pre-ordered a PS3 in Europe buy just one movie the new percentage would be about:

1-2% = 8,200 movies for HD-DVD

98-99% = 501,834 movies for Blu-Ray

I don't even think it will be that bad for HD-DVD, but it will definetly be bad.

In other news:

Australia's biggest electronics retailer announced that they are not going to carry ANY HD DVD products and are Blu-ray only.

HD DVD is DOA in Japan.

PS3 is about to launch in Europe.

Major studios, including Paramount & Warner are pushing Blu-ray hard in the UK, which apparently isn't part of Europe according to this article.

Studio Canal, previously HD DVD only, has announced Blu-ray support. They are Europe's largest native home video company.

And back in the USA Blu-ray has caught up and surpassed HD DVD (despite launching later) and BD disc sales outnumber HD DVD over 2 to 1 and growing.

There was a time Betamax outsold VHS as well. We all know how that turned out, don't we?

I have new found respect for Europeans!

Maybe its because Sony continually screws the European market with inferior products and price gouging?

SimpleRules said,
Maybe its because Sony continually screws the European market with inferior products and price gouging?

You mean it's different here in North America?

Blaxima said,

You mean it's different here in North America?


It costs 792 of your US dollars in Europe, and it won't even play old playstation games!

SimpleRules said,


It costs 792 of your US dollars in Europe, and it won't even play old playstation games!

Stop with the FUD.

They will be EMULATED just like Microsoft does with the XBOX 360. You know, Microsoft, HD DVD supporter and convicted USA & EU antitrust violator.

PeterTHX said,

Stop with the FUD.

They will be EMULATED just like Microsoft does with the XBOX 360.


Stopy with your Fud! x)
Backwards compatibility was made to rely on the Emotion Engine, not Emulation. Even then it wasn't perfect, and with the Emotion Engine removed, there's little to none left. Sony's half-assed, quickly stitched together attempt at Emulation won't get very far, as Emulation was never intended to be used originally (unlike with the X360). That's the reason why Sony refuses to publish the list of supported PS2 titles before sales start in Europe, so customers aren't scared away by how many tiles are in it.

Oh, and btw, the EU price is US$820 - that's the equivalent of the Amazon.co.uk preorder price of £425. The final retail price will probably even higher.

I want HD-DVD to win just because it looks like they are making cheaper players.

At the same time all the advertisements for movies I see coming out say "coming to DVD and Blu-Ray." I haven't heard one advert saying "coming to DVD and HD-DVD."

I'm kind of itching to pick up the XBox 360 HD-DVD addon but am unsure of the format tbh.

I dunno... I can't tell much of a difference between 720p HD and DVD quality on my set (which maxes out at 720p). I can see there being a big difference between DVD quality and 1080p quality though. Thats a no-brainer.

The reason you see ads for Blu Ray movies is because the movies are from Sony pictures or one of the studios that fall under that umbrella. Sony is just trying to save face with their exagerated numbers. Sony is always trying to corner the market with a format of their own and they fail EVERYTIME.

Blaxima said,
The reason you see ads for Blu Ray movies is because the movies are from Sony pictures or one of the studios that fall under that umbrella. Sony is just trying to save face with their exagerated numbers. Sony is always trying to corner the market with a format of their own and they fail EVERYTIME.

I know that it is the studios backing Blu Ray that are pushing the format... thats kind of a no-brainer :rolleyes:. My question is: where are the HD DVD advertisements from the studios pushing the HD DVD format? I think the fact that Sony and their partners are advertising Blu Ray with so much more intensity then HD DVD will be a pretty big deciding factor made by the average couch potato American.

They buy what is advertised. If Joe goes to buy a new player, and they are looking at both HD DVD and Blu Ray players, they will buy whichever one they hear the most about from the boob tube because they don't want to buy the player with the least amount of titles available. (Even if that is just their perception).

Shadrack said,

I know that it is the studios backing Blu Ray that are pushing the format... thats kind of a no-brainer :rolleyes:. My question is: where are the HD DVD advertisements from the studios pushing the HD DVD format? I think the fact that Sony and their partners are advertising Blu Ray with so much more intensity then HD DVD will be a pretty big deciding factor made by the average couch potato American.

NO, not Sony's studio partners, Sony pictures themselves and their Subsidiarys. There's a difference

20th Century Fox and Walt Disney Pictures are now part of Sony?

Lionsgate (The Descent, Crank, Stargate, T2, etc) is part of Sony?

Paramount Pictures and Warner Home Video are part of Sony?

News to me. News to the world!

There you have it, as it actually stands - 85% market share for HD-Dvd

This just further proves that the Nielsen "research" which claimed Blu-Ray superiority was fudged

of course its fudged when its allowed to calculate all the free blu ray discs given out by sony so people will buy their pos console.

You guys are F***ing idiots.

1) Nielsen does not include the one free movie sony gives out with a PS3 or the five free movies Toshiba gives away with each of it's soon-to-be-paperweight. (Toshiba however does include the five free movies, that they give away with each player because noone would buy their crap otherwise, in their internal numbers.)

2) Nielsen numbers were for North America only, so NO, they will not match the numbers from Europe.

3) With just over 1,000,000 TOTAL high definition discs sold to date in all of Europe, if every one who has pre-ordered a PS3 in Europe buys just ONE, that is 1, blu-ray movie, then the stats will shift to 2.5 Blu-Ray discs to every 1 HD-DVD discs in a single day. This is why Toshiba will not release actual numbers.

Is it me or are we all getting a bit fed up of blu-ray and HD DVD taking up the whole frontpage of neowin. I dont care anymore, not frontpage material :@

HD-DVD ftw!
Personally ill prolly get the 360 HD-DVD when its out here, then choose whichever format Harman Kardon chooses

Finally some good news on HD-DVD. It has seemed rather stalemate just recently. Sure the Playstation 3 will help with Blu-Ray in Europe, but not so much with the 60GB only model at £425 here in the UK me thinks. I would personally like to see the HD-DVD drive for the X360 more in stock and at a lower price point.

bucko said,
I would personally like to see the HD-DVD drive for the X360 more in stock and at a lower price point.

It was £99 from Dixons yesterday.

The PS3 will help a bit in the EU, but not much, it's still going to be so expensive, and I think people are starting to get tired of Sony shafting Europe all the time.

The PS3 will not help much in Europe, as it is not only significantly overpriced, much more than in the US and Japan already (£425 is US$820 with today's rates), but also crippled - Sony completely removed the Emotion Engine, thus pretty much completely axing backwards compatibility, and with no good games out for the PS3, things look very drab.
Europeans will think twice before they pay Sony's street robbery price of US$820 for a crippled PS3

RubberJabber said,

It was £99 from Dixons yesterday.


It works great in an XP or Vista machine too. Would be nice for those people that use Media Center to stream content to their televisions.

I read in another news bit posted somewhere else that players are looking to drop to maybe $299 by the holidays according to Sony.

They mentioned how the first year or so of the new players is generally be slow and don't usually pick up until things hit the $300 and less mark.

I would really love to see where you read that, because Sony officially denied rumors they will lower the price to $299 oon their BD players.

On day it's HD-DVD, the other is Blu-Ray that is in the lead...

I'm waiting for a 1080p player at 299$, now that would be a sweet spot... Somewhere in 2008 I guess...

"On day it's HD-DVD, the other is Blu-Ray that is in the lead..."

No, the reports don't seem to conflict.

Taken internationally, it seems to be Blu-ray according to the latest reports, but when talking only Europe, HD-DVD may be in the lead. I think this may actually hurt the European market in the short term, at least if Blu-ray keep gaining internationally like they've done lately. Because it's never good for the customers to pick the lesser supported brand internationally.

Anyway, that just single player brands and an unreleased console can decide the market this much indicates how small these markets still really are. It's hard to tell what will happen at this point...

You already have those with HD-DVD my friend...unless you are waiting for $299 blu-ray players which you probably won't get later in 2008 if not 2009 judging by analysts.

$199 - XBox 360 HD-DVD Player - full 1080p works on XBox 360 and any PC including your media center PC
$299 - Toshiba coming out this summer - full 1080p second generation

For many $299 might be a price to buy, but that's still alot for the vast majority of people. The first ones to drop to $199 and lower will win IMO.

Also, I'm told that HD-DVD Movies are something like $5-$10 cheaper then Blu-Ray movies. It's not only the players that need to get cheaper, if they can also drop the price of HD-DVD movies faster, then it'll look bad for Blu-Ray.

GP007 said,
For many $299 might be a price to buy, but that's still alot for the vast majority of people. The first ones to drop to $199 and lower will win IMO.

Also, I'm told that HD-DVD Movies are something like $5-$10 cheaper then Blu-Ray movies. It's not only the players that need to get cheaper, if they can also drop the price of HD-DVD movies faster, then it'll look bad for Blu-Ray.

totally agree there.. i think for it to get anywhere near as popular as dvd's are it's gonna have to get to 100dollars or less area before the "vast majority" buy one.... and even if that happens... who's going to buy one when most people dont even have a HDTV to begin with? ... so im sorta hoping the prices of HDTV's drop in price along with the HD-DVD/blu-ray players.... which they probably will.

although LCD HDTV's are getting much better in price i still think they need to drop noticeably more before everyone will get one give or take a little.

cause without HDTV's blu-ray/hd-dvd is pretty much pointless to buy over standard dvd as it offers little to no difference in image quality.

plus as for the movies themselfs... i dont think ANY movie should cost more than 20 dollars TOPS in any format.... cause it's just to expensive past this point and not many movies would be worth more than that TOPS.

GP007 said,
For many $299 might be a price to buy, but that's still alot for the vast majority of people. The first ones to drop to $199 and lower will win IMO.

Also, I'm told that HD-DVD Movies are something like $5-$10 cheaper then Blu-Ray movies. It's not only the players that need to get cheaper, if they can also drop the price of HD-DVD movies faster, then it'll look bad for Blu-Ray.

Sigh.

Blu-ray discs are either the same price as their HD DVD counterparts (like "The Departed" or "Babel") or sometimes cheaper because they aren't combo discs like several HD DVD versions are (like "Superman Returns" or "16 Blocks")

Boz said,
You already have those with HD-DVD my friend...unless you are waiting for $299 blu-ray players which you probably won't get later in 2008 if not 2009 judging by analysts.

$199 - XBox 360 HD-DVD Player - full 1080p works on XBox 360 and any PC including your media center PC
$299 - Toshiba coming out this summer - full 1080p second generation

Sigh. MORE misinformation?

XBOX 360 *requires* a 360, no 1080p unless you have VGA. No HDMI, no advanced audio, not even DTS. Media Center PC requires HDCP support and connections.

$599 is the retail of the upcoming Toshiba HD-A20, not $299. There is a RUMOR that Toshiba may slash $100 off the $499 HD-A2, which would make it $399.

$599 is also the price of the upcoming Sony BDP-S300 (HDMI 1.3, 1080p) Blu-ray player.