HP Slate gets demoed on video, shows why Windows 7 isn't slate ready

A YouTube user has posted a lengthy video demo of a HP Slate device running Windows 7.

The video, spotted by Engadget, shows a good overview of the hardware and buttons but also shows the device booting into a fully usable copy of Windows 7. Although the device boots in 30 seconds, compared to the iPad's 15 second boot time, it's clear from the start that Windows 7 isn't suitable for a slate style device. Windows 7 appears to be difficult to navigate using just your finger. The onscreen keyboard also takes approximately 60% of the screen space and does not push any content above it to make it user friendly.

The physical dimensions and hardware on the slate look impressive however. The device is expected to have an 8.9" screen, two cameras (one for video and one for images) and will allow users to use a pen to write on the screen. The HP Slate was originally unveiled at CES earlier this year. The project has suffered its fair share of set backs, including rumours that it had been shelved. In April this year, HP acquired Palm, which threw the future of the Slate into doubt given HP now owns palms former operating system, webOS, which many thought may have instead been chosen to run on the device. HP executives have refused to confirm if the Slate is still on the table.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said in July that Windows 7 Slate devices will be coming "as soon as they're ready".

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One thing people need to remember is that this is a prototype also on every touch enabled HP they have there own multi touch interface that goes on top of Windows, With HP purchasing Palm you can be sure that some of that interface will find its way back onto this machine.

After watching the video I've decided I actually am pretty impressed. The boot time was about the same as my desktop, as was IE load time. He had some difficulty navigating, opening/closing tabs, etc., but that is because of the UI of IE, not really a Windows flaw. IE9 should be much better, I think, since it is less cluttered and uses bigger buttons, so on a touch screen it'll be easier to press what you actually want. I can't comment on the keyboard since he didn't really type a whole lot, so it's difficult to gauge how responsive and accurate it is. I think it probably was using a standard hard drive and performance could probably be significantly improved with a SSD. If I got one I'd probably mod it with a SSD and create a custom Windows Embedded installation, stripping out all the apps I'd never use. I'd probably have a lot of fun. I don't have extra money for a toy like that right now, though, but if it's out by 2011 maybe I'll put some of my tax return towards one.

1) Not the correct keyboard.
2) User having little clue what they are doing.
3) Using desktop software and comparing it to Phone software, really?

Windows doesn't need to be changed, the software people use on touch and tablet devices must be changed or it not any more functional than a laptop.

There is software out there that is touch designed, from receipe kitchen apps to tons of touch and tablet designed applications that are simply awesome on Win7, and make iPad applications look like toys. The OS is light enough, fast enough, and has a rich API set.

As for people saying that Win7 sucks on tablets, they haven't been around a lot of corporate enviornments where they use tablet Vista/Win7 devices as a key part of their operations.

As for people saying that Win7 sucks for touch, have they not heard of Microsoft Surface? It is nothing but Vista/Win7 with some customized applications using the OS API sets. (Win7 can do 50 points of pressure sensitive touch, 50 points of visual touch (seeing the object on the screen), etc, etc. - These are things that NO other OS can do, let alone iOS or Android.)

Disclaimer: Yes I use a touch and tablet based device and desktop with Win7. Yes I have an iPad and my main phone is a Droid running Android. All devices are nice, but a good slate design with Win7 and some custom applications on it make the Android and iPad look like sad toys.

It's a shame that MS isn't bothered to convert the WP7 OS into tablet form, or something to that effect.

I love the idea of a full-fledged OS on a tablet, but as evident by this, it just doesn't work.

Chun.Yin said,
It's a shame that MS isn't bothered to convert the WP7 OS into tablet form, or something to that effect.

I love the idea of a full-fledged OS on a tablet, but as evident by this, it just doesn't work.

Why, explorer can be replaced with a touch based desktop UI, or even use Media Center. This is not an OS issue, this is a software issue. HP and others have created rather good touch software shell replacments.

As for Microsoft, go look up Microsoft Surface. Maybe they should commit to an explorer/shell replacement that is touch only, but why, when tablets are work so well on Win7 and don't need the adjusted UI that touch only devices do.

If Android or iOS was offering true 'tablet' PC designs that have handwriting, then Microsoft might have reason to be scared. Right now, for a real drawing and tablet experience that isn't limited to touch, Win7 is the best OS.

"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said in July that Windows 7 Slate devices will be coming "as soon as they're ready"

thanks for the info, capt'n Obvious!

Mouettus said,
"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said in July that Windows 7 Slate devices will be coming "as soon as they're ready"

thanks for the info, capt'n Obvious!

Lol

I like the comment that the reviewer makes about how light and fast it is lol it took forever to boot and it's laggy like hell when interacting with different programs, especially the browser, and hte "being light" part... lol I dont want to even go there....

Personally, I think Microsoft needs the backend to be windows 7 basic, with a zune/metro like interface for the front. Ipad is nice, but too limited and won't replace my laptop. I want a laptop replacement, not an additional too.

blueboy75 said,
Personally, I think Microsoft needs the backend to be windows 7 basic, with a zune/metro like interface for the front. Ipad is nice, but too limited and won't replace my laptop. I want a laptop replacement, not an additional too.

no, no NO metro anywhere near windows 7 or 8.

blueboy75 said,
Personally, I think Microsoft needs the backend to be windows 7 basic, with a zune/metro like interface for the front. Ipad is nice, but too limited and won't replace my laptop. I want a laptop replacement, not an additional too.

A mix of the two. They should develop an OS that has the requirements of WP7, yeat can run Windows apps. With the Metro UI

Frylock86 said,

A mix of the two. They should develop an OS that has the requirements of WP7, yeat can run Windows apps. With the Metro UI


Have fun with forcing third-party apps (that were written with a mouse/keyboard and large screen in mind) to work with that.

All this aside the biggest failing for me is the fact that this thing will only have 3.5 hours of good battery at best. Add that to the heap and thats just another reason why full OS arent viable options for slates atm.

Osiris said,
All this aside the biggest failing for me is the fact that this thing will only have 3.5 hours of good battery at best. Add that to the heap and thats just another reason why full OS arent viable options for slates atm.

If they could improve current battery technology, this thing would beat the iPad hands down.

Frylock86 said,

If they could improve current battery technology, this thing would beat the iPad hands down.

If they could improve battery and offer smooth performance they would own. Unfortunately the tech and smoothness isnt there. IT IS however with Mobile OS'

~D~ said,
Whatsup with the weird IE8 demo. Why didn't he start Windows Media Center?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. But I think it might be Windows 7 Professional (which doesn't include WMC)

Chsoriano said,

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. But I think it might be Windows 7 Professional (which doesn't include WMC)

W7 Pro does include WMC. With Windows 7 they returned to having the next version up be a superset of the version below it. You can only gain features moving up a version, there is no trading features like Vista had. Though WMC is licensed for W7Pro, I think it might not be installed by default and you need to go into the configure windows features menu and install it.

kabix said,
This is bull****. Microsoft stop trying to put a desktop OS on tablets. Its NEVER GONNA WORK.

Yes it will. With enough power behind it.

kabix said,
This is bull****. Microsoft stop trying to put a desktop OS on tablets. Its NEVER GONNA WORK.

It WILL work, just not with current technology, mobile OS is where its at for many good reasons.

The problem isn't MS, it's what these idiot manufacturers think constitutes a tablet. Tabletkiosk has a clue, and they use suitable components. You can't make a slightly oversized mobile phone and expect it to run Windows.

Looks awesome and seems snappy to me. It probably would help if he removed the plastic display sheet used in packaging.

JonathanMarston said,
He has it set up all wrong! He needs to set it to 120 dpi, move the task bar to the left of the screen, and install IE9...
Then why isn't that (minus IE9) the default?

This is where WCE7 should come into play for the new generation of tablets, its there, but some company or MS should develop an OS, not just one, but many for different devices.

Those are reaaly minor issues why It can run windows 7. The device is fast, responsive and looks good in any way for me. I'f the price is lower then the iPad I'm buying it.
And I don't care if it woud not run Windows 7. Put something on it and release it, so I can show off against all the apple fan boys. (And it will probably be hacked so it can run windows 7 anyway).

Renato456 said,
Those are reaaly minor issues why It can run windows 7. The device is fast, responsive and looks good in any way for me. I'f the price is lower then the iPad I'm buying it.
And I don't care if it woud not run Windows 7. Put something on it and release it, so I can show off against all the apple fan boys. (And it will probably be hacked so it can run windows 7 anyway).

I agree! It could be more down to the touch screen display drivers, who knows. It is only a demo device and isn't finished. I'm sure HP will refine it

Blah -- this is a video with something that is pre-release. Don't pass judgment just yet on whether Windows 7 is or is not slate ready. We usually apply that CW to pre-release Phones that get leaked on YT and we should collectively do that with pre-release Windows Slate PCs IMO.

Paulstorm said,
Blah -- this is a video with something that is pre-release. Don't pass judgment just yet on whether Windows 7 is or is not slate ready. We usually apply that CW to pre-release Phones that get leaked on YT and we should collectively do that with pre-release Windows Slate PCs IMO.

This isn't pre-release. Windows 7 in it's raw form with a slate device is not capable. Slap a UI on top of it all you like but the underlying issues remain.

Didn't seem to work too well but I'm not surprised. I'm sure it will get better with a little more development.

I agree. We experienced the same thing with our Win7 based touch device at work.

It just isn't a good touch OS. It's not just the usability issues and having to manage windows etc, but that even Windows 7 is inefficient in its battery usage.

I think would be a good idea for Microsoft to develop an Operating System entirely for tablet devices. It would gain them more market share.

DKcomputers said,
I think would be a good idea for Microsoft to develop an Operating System entirely for tablet devices. It would gain them more market share.

I think they could easily improve the current Windows to make it more usable on tablet devices and try to think of ways to entice developers to create touch-friendly versions of their applications; that way, Microsoft keep the advantage they have of using their fully-fledged more functional operating system.

People are confusing the term operating system, with the concept of the theme of the OS. Explorer, the desktop component of Windows is only a small part of the overall Windows architecture. Windows itself being so complete and tested makes it ideal as a base configuration for many systems.

I bought a touch/pen Lenovo Thinkpad X200 Tablet, and find my rate of errors pressing buttons to be about the same as the iPad. I use both every day. The biggest improvement to the tablet was to replace the mechanical HDD with an SDD, and all unresponsive activities became responsive. Office:Onenote is THE killer application, and creams the note application on the iPad.

Another thing to point out is that a Windows 7 tablet will still be much more functional than an iPad, due to it running a full OS, originally released for desktops and laptops. Apple's iOS is based on what was originally a mobile operating system.

It should be noted that the On Screen Keyboard *CAN* be docked to either the top or bottom of the screen, which causes windows to be re-positioned to avoid it, AND resized to take up less space. The video simply shows it in the 'floating' configuration.

DaveLegg said,
It should be noted that the On Screen Keyboard *CAN* be docked to either the top or bottom of the screen, which causes windows to be re-positioned to avoid it, AND resized to take up less space. The video simply shows it in the 'floating' configuration.

Is this option enabled for tablet devices only? I couldn't find it in the Options dialog.

rm20010 said,

Is this option enabled for tablet devices only? I couldn't find it in the Options dialog.

The keyboard you get on tablet devices is slightly different to the one you can bring up through the start menu: http://f.le.gg/j

This video shows how cool the HP Slate could be. I'd love a tablet with Windows 7 on - it'd be great for lectures and other work. I hope HP release this

What isn't shown here is the amazing dock accessory with all manner of ports attached to use this on a desktop. This is going to be big for the enterprise -- the consumers will probably want to wait and get the WebOS version.

Calum said,

I disagree with you. Windows 7 contains many enhancements which make it suitable for a tablet PC or other similar portable device.

Check out ~Johnny's comment here: http://www.neowin.net/news/hp-...slate-ready#comment-1193143


But have you used Win7 as a tablet OS? No use posting comments if you haven't, anyway.

I have, and there are numerous usability problems... Simple things like right-clicking being assumed to be a "simple everyday click" in Windows, or that a virtual kb not auto-popping up on any textboxes. And the window management! Oh boy... I mean, there's a reason neither Android nor iOS let that get in the way. Dragging windows with your finger and the touch device accidentally thinking you let loose your finger because you dragged too quickly, etc... It's horrible! It really reeks of being keyboard oriented. It's like trying to use OS X without a mouse.

Northgrove said,

But have you used Win7 as a tablet OS? No use posting comments if you haven't, anyway.

I have, and there are numerous usability problems... Simple things like right-clicking being assumed to be a "simple everyday click" in Windows, or that a virtual kb not auto-popping up on any textboxes. And the window management! Oh boy... I mean, there's a reason neither Android nor iOS let that get in the way. Dragging windows with your finger and the touch device accidentally thinking you let loose your finger because you dragged too quickly, etc... It's horrible! It really reeks of being keyboard oriented. It's like trying to use OS X without a mouse.


I've not used it, yet, but my friend Dave Legg has used a Windows 7 tablet for a while now and loves it - he thinks it's very suitable for tablet PCs; I value his opinion and have heard a lot about how it works on tablets.

You are right though when you suggest I need to use it before I can decide for myself whether it is suitable for a tablet PC.

Calum said,

I've not used it, yet, but my friend Dave Legg has used a Windows 7 tablet for a while now and loves it - he thinks it's very suitable for tablet PCs; I value his opinion and have heard a lot about how it works on tablets.

You have no first hand experience yourself. That's all we need to know.

Northgrove said,

Simple things like right-clicking being assumed to be a "simple everyday click" in Windows, or that a virtual kb not auto-popping up on any textboxes. And the window management! Oh boy...

Right-click is easy to do with hold-and-tap and I've never had trouble with window management, but I'll agree that they need to improve the on-screen keyboard. It's only 2 taps to get the keyboard, but it really should be 1...

.Neo said,

You have no first hand experience yourself. That's all we need to know.

But...but...but.... I want it to be so, SOOO BAD! People love writing opinionated pieces on things they have no first-hand knowledge of.

Shadrack said,

But...but...but.... I want it to be so, SOOO BAD! People love writing opinionated pieces on things they have no first-hand knowledge of.

Do you? I DO have first hand knowledge of Windows7 on a touch device and it's FAR from as bad as you guys are portraying it as. Windows7 DOES work well with touch. The issue comes into play when you gimp down the specs so much performance starts to suffer. A convertable tablet is an amazingly useful device that's very underrated.

Bengal34 said,
Do you? I DO have first hand knowledge of Windows7 on a touch device and it's FAR from as bad as you guys are portraying it as. Windows7 DOES work well with touch. The issue comes into play when you gimp down the specs so much performance starts to suffer. A convertable tablet is an amazingly useful device that's very underrated.

I have as well. 90% of all interface elements found in Windows 7, its applications and third-party applications are not designed for touch input without a stylus. That's simply because they're way too small. Even with those handful of adjustments Microsoft made its obvious Windows 7 is still largely build around mouse and keyboard input. Which isn't weird or a bad thing. It just shows the desktop operating system isn't really suitable for tablets/slates.

IMO, slates should be ultra-portable which essentially means Windows 7, or any desktop OS for that matter, is simply too resource intensive for such a device.

.Neo said,

I have as well. 90% of all interface elements found in Windows 7, its applications and third-party applications are not designed for touch input without a stylus. That's simply because they're way too small. Even with those handful of adjustments Microsoft made its obvious Windows 7 is still largely build around mouse and keyboard input. Which isn't weird or a bad thing. It just shows the desktop operating system isn't really suitable for tablets/slates.

IMO, slates should be ultra-portable which essentially means Windows 7, or any desktop OS for that matter, is simply too resource intensive for such a device.

I'll give you that most third party programs aren't great with touch, but the OS itself and thanks to the ribbon UI it's easy to use with just your fingers.

If you have a dedicated tablet it may be too expensive to have a tablet with good enough specs ro run it well. But a convertable or a laptop with an undockable screen would be able to bring up the price you'd be willing to spend on it since it's a tablet and a laptop in one. I really like Dell's latest idea for it. The screen spins around. Also Asus's idea with the undockable screen.

Bengal34 said,

I'll give you that most third party programs aren't great with touch, but the OS itself and thanks to the ribbon UI it's easy to use with just your fingers.

And that is exactly the problem. Who ever uses JUST the OS? No one, that's who. The point of the OS is to provide a platform for applications, and if those applications aren't suited to tablet use, then the OS serves no purpose on the platform. This is the whole reason that Microsoft was never able to completely migrate Windows Mobile to a finger-friendly OS without starting over from scratch with Windows Phone 7. The ****** child that is Windows Mobile 6.5 is a perfect example of what happens when you try to force a pointer (either mouse or stylus) centric OS to work with a finger.

Pass. I've used tablet pc's for a while and I'll stick to the Kb/m combo thank you very much. You can't intuitively run windows on a tough device. Wp7 or iOS FTW!

Windows 7 is the mainframe, or platform. On which we'll see what will run.
Remeber that with a windows tablet there's no limit. With others, you depend on a marketplace, and that's a bad thing for production purposes. Put more simply: production does not match with an iPad or similar.

DaveGreen said,
Windows 7 is the mainframe, or platform. On which we'll see what will run.
Remeber that with a windows tablet there's no limit. With others, you depend on a marketplace, and that's a bad thing for production purposes. Put more simply: production does not match with an iPad or similar.
...you do realize that, as a business, you can have your own internal company apps that have no restrictions and can be deployed to all the iOS devices you have in your company, right?

Elliott said,
...you do realize that, as a business, you can have your own internal company apps that have no restrictions and can be deployed to all the iOS devices you have in your company, right?

....you do realize that many businesses already have applications designed for Windows right?

Elliott said,
...you do realize that, as a business, you can have your own internal company apps that have no restrictions and can be deployed to all the iOS devices you have in your company, right?

You do realize that iHardware does not meet the needs of all people, right? You do realize that not everyone wants to wait until next year, and the next year, and the next year, for Apple to release hardware that contains capability in devices that are available now, right? You do realize that not all companies can afford, or even want to, spend resources training developers to learn a programming language (Objective-C, possibly the worst programming language) to develop software on platform that they may not know, which would slow or stop development on existing software, right? You do realize that not everyone - in fact a vast majority - sees that shiny Apple logo, and decides that they must stop everything to jump to Apple because Stevie says they should, right?

thatguyandrew1992 said,

....you do realize that many businesses already have applications designed for Windows right?

So? ...you do realize that many businesses already have applications designed to run in Linux
...you do realize that many businesses already have applications designed to run in Mac OS X
...you do realize that many businesses deploy their applications as web apps that are platform independent.

The world is full of options. Just because 1 option may be more popular due to market dominance is meaningless to the people who have chosen not to go with it.

nohone said,

You do realize that iHardware does not meet the needs of all people, right? You do realize that not everyone wants to wait until next year, and the next year, and the next year, for Apple to release hardware that contains capability in devices that are available now, right? You do realize that not all companies can afford, or even want to, spend resources training developers to learn a programming language (Objective-C, possibly the worst programming language) to develop software on platform that they may not know, which would slow or stop development on existing software, right? You do realize that not everyone - in fact a vast majority - sees that shiny Apple logo, and decides that they must stop everything to jump to Apple because Stevie says they should, right?

Wow, I never said iOS was the best choice. If you had read the original quote, you would realize that DaveGreen was claiming the "marketplaces" on mobile platforms didn't allow businesses the flexibility they needed. For iOS, at least, that's flat out wrong.

Also, why do you think Objective-C is bad? Objective-C is incredibly powerful and easy to understand, and the Cocoa framework makes it even better.

Elliott said,
Wow, I never said iOS was the best choice. If you had read the original quote, you would realize that DaveGreen was claiming the "marketplaces" on mobile platforms didn't allow businesses the flexibility they needed. For iOS, at least, that's flat out wrong.

Also, why do you think Objective-C is bad? Objective-C is incredibly powerful and easy to understand, and the Cocoa framework makes it even better.

I have written apps sold on the App Store, and have plans for another (a program that I am writing for iOS, Android and WP7), so I am speaking from experience not just what someone told me. Ignoring the tools are horrible - especially IB, there are many problems with the language its self. Will keep the descriptions short so I don't fill multiple pages.
1) Arbitrary mixing of two languages, C/C++ and a Smalltalk-esque language. While it does allow you to use some existing C code, much of it is unnecessary. Why different ways of declaring class/@interface? Why different ways of allocating memory? Why different ways of calling methods and passing parameters? They could have easily re-worked a C compiler to get the same effects of merging two languages.
2) Memory models are a mess. Sometimes you use C style allocation/deallocation, others you use the object allocation method. Some objects are GCed, some are not. You own the memory, but sometimes you don't depending on which methods you call.
3) Overly verbose code (@property/@synthesize which can be error prone)
4) declarations are scattered about (need an @interface and @implementation, usually in seperate files)
5) Very little typesafety - both in variable use, and message passing
6) No enforced object initialization - AKA constructors.
7) Arbitrary complexities to the language that make errors easy. For example, why prefix strings with a @? Forget that symbol, and you get no compiler warning/error and the program will crash because you are passing a C style string. If the function takes a NSString, at least flag it as a compiler warning (which can also be part of typesafety).

This is a very short list, I once was keeping a document which spanned 30 pages of all the problems with Objective-C, but cannot find it right now. Mostly, it seems like they took the worst parts of Smalltalk, the worst parts of C/C++, and used those bad parts as the focus for the language.

And the libraries are also a mess. Sometimes you call a C style function (not a C-lib call, but a method, such as the CGMakeRect), but other times you need to allocate an object. Something that can be very easy, such as showing a simple message, requires a UIAlertView allocation and a delegate to call back into yor implementation. Wanting to show multiple alerts within a @implementation requires multiple delegate implementations or hackery and state maintence to reuse the delegate. In .NET, it is a simple call to MessageBox.Show("Text") which returns the button pressed.

Yes, much of this is just language differences between Objective-C, Java, and .NET, and you need to abide by the language rules to program, but Obj-C is far from a modern programming language that is clean, powerful, and easy.

I have a Toshiba Portege M700 which is a touch tablet pc, rotatable screen. I find using it in tablet mode to be cumbersome and incredibly slow to the point that I hardly ever use it as such. I still find that there are a few usability issues with the touch system in 7, particularly with intuitiveness over the OSK blocking or vanishing inexplicably.

Having the device in laptop mode and using the touch screen is my happy medium though. Why use the track pad when I can flick my hand up at the screen. That's a good compromise IMO.

I think it's part of the issue in designing this functionality into a desktop OS, where as the iPad can wipe the slate clean (pun intended) on its UI design.

The one thing that I do find most odd, as shown in the video is why the gesture to go 'back' in IE is to swipe to the right. Am I crazy to think that it should be a swipe action in the direction of the back button?

Yeah but Win7 is made for pc and laptops (netbooks and tablets included), I think that its unfair to compare it to iPad, which is running a mobile oriented OS. So I think that until a suitable software comes out we won't see a decent non iOS slate, and as soon as that start to happen HTML5 will kick in displacing more and more flash driven content in the web.

dhan said,
Comparing boot time of a gimped OS (iOS) to a general purpose OS (Windows 7) is...dumb?
Boot time is just a small part of it. Look at how poorly Windows 7 behaves. It's not meant for a full touch interface.

Elliott said,
Boot time is just a small part of it. Look at how poorly Windows 7 behaves. It's not meant for a full touch interface.

In what way does it perform poorly? I don't think I witnessed that, but could be wrong.

dhan said,
Comparing boot time of a gimped OS (iOS) to a general purpose OS (Windows 7) is...dumb?

Ubuntu is a general purpose OS, but its boot times (netbook remix) are redonkulously fast. Windows boot times have always been the slowest around, and it wont change in the near future.

LoveThePenguin said,

Ubuntu is a general purpose OS, but its boot times (netbook remix) are redonkulously fast. Windows boot times have always been the slowest around, and it wont change in the near future.

This is false information.

LoveThePenguin said,

Ubuntu is a general purpose OS, but its boot times (netbook remix) are redonkulously fast. Windows boot times have always been the slowest around, and it wont change in the near future.

That's strange, my Windows PC boots to a usable desktop in about 30 seconds, and that is with a standard 7,200 RPM hard disk, with about 8 startup applications on top of my usual services. I have never found any Linux variant to boot noticeably faster.

Calum said,

In what way does it perform poorly? I don't think I witnessed that, but could be wrong.
Scrolling performance was awful. Not only was it jerky, but half the time it would recognize text select drag events instead of a scroll. You also need to call on the OSK manually every time you want to type instead of just having it appear every time you tap into a text input. There are also elements of the UI that are almost impossible to tap with your finger (just look how much trouble he was having just trying to close a tab).

Also, a physical Ctrl+Alt+Del button? Really?

Elliott said,
Scrolling performance was awful. Not only was it jerky, but half the time it would recognize text select drag events instead of a scroll. You also need to call on the OSK manually every time you want to type instead of just having it appear every time you tap into a text input. There are also elements of the UI that are almost impossible to tap with your finger (just look how much trouble he was having just trying to close a tab).

Also, a physical Ctrl+Alt+Del button? Really?

Some security policies require you to press Ctrl+Alt+Del before a log in. Without a button, how would you do it? When logged in, all it does is bring up the menu to do things like lock and start the task manager.

mrp04 said,
Some security policies require you to press Ctrl+Alt+Del before a log in. Without a button, how would you do it? When logged in, all it does is bring up the menu to do things like lock and start the task manager.
Thank you for proving my point: Windows 7 is not meant for a fully touch interface.

Just look at the video, Windows 7 was not designed for what it is being run on, and it looks horrible as far as usability goes.

ccoltmanm said,
Just look at the video, Windows 7 was not designed for what it is being run on, and it looks horrible as far as usability goes.

yes kinda...but guess what? they cud adopt Windows Media Center interface to Windows 7 on Slate.

I love Windows 7 on both my desktop and my laptop. I have never tried it on a tablet.

I have seen it in use. Technicians from AT&T at my house trying to scroll or a friend browsing the web, all have to double do what they want. Clicking an icon may take an extra step or more effort, same as scrolling. Nothing is quite as polished or smoth.

That being said, I've been at bars and casinos and betting places where waitresses, hostesses, workers are using the iPAD seamlessly.

There needs to be a new Operating System made by Windows for tablets. It's as simple as that. They need to have an app store equivalant and it has to be marketed for just touch devices.

That is the only way I see Microsoft saturating the next market. They can put it on every tablet out there like they do with computers, and will leave Apple and their one product where it is at.

Absolutely agree. Win 7 is not for tablets.
They need a new more refined OS for tablets, something like the Windows mobile, with small footprint on the CPU and Memory usage but that's snappy and performs well.
That is why the iPad has been so popular.

Euphoria said,
Absolutely agree. Win 7 is not for tablets.
They need a new more refined OS for tablets, something like the Windows mobile, with small footprint on the CPU and Memory usage but that's snappy and performs well.
That is why the iPad has been so popular.

It's not the footprint, althought that helps, it is the interface.

ccoltmanm said,

It's not the footprint, althought that helps, it is the interface.

Aero Snap, Aero Shake, Jumplists, and new taskbar, and parts of IE's interface were designed for tablets & touchscreens. Even things like the ribbon are suited to it aswell. Windows 7 itself does fine on a tablet, just most of the programs made for Windows aren't designed with touchscreens in mind.

ccoltmanm said,

It's not the footprint, althought that helps, it is the interface.


Win 7 is a memory hog. Yes you can change the interface but if you run it on top of Win 7 it will be a failure. Slow startup, lag, and hardware dependent performance is not really the way to go for the tablets.

Euphoria said,
Win 7 is a memory hog.

FUD

Windows 7 uses memory more efficiently than any windows before it.

I love my touchsmart TM2.
I wouldn't go back to a non-touchscreen windows 7 installation, period.

dotf said,

FUD

Windows 7 uses memory more efficiently than any windows before it.

Right... the point is that for tablets the OS needs to use less memory more efficiently

~Johnny said,
Windows 7 itself does fine on a tablet, just most of the programs made for Windows aren't designed with touchscreens in mind.

I'd disagree. I use Windows XP on my Samsung UMPC (7") and its quite painful, lots of pecking at the screen with your finger tip in the hope of clicking things correctly, but tonnes of things were too small to be used properly. Not much has changed with Windows 7 in my experience, they've made some things bigger to make them easier to interact with, but at the end of the day it won't be able to compete with proper OS's like Android / Meego / iOS.

Pc_Madness said,

I'd disagree. I use Windows XP on my Samsung UMPC (7") and its quite painful, lots of pecking at the screen with your finger tip in the hope of clicking things correctly, but tonnes of things were too small to be used properly. Not much has changed with Windows 7 in my experience, they've made some things bigger to make them easier to interact with, but at the end of the day it won't be able to compete with proper OS's like Android / Meego / iOS.

Yes, because XP is the same thing as windows 7, a OS almost a decade older and more mature.

dotf said,

FUD
Windows 7 uses memory more efficiently than any windows before it.

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

LoveThePenguin said,

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

Yes, it does. Windows 7 takes advantage of more memory, and allows programs to start up faster. On the other hand the pathetic XP wastes those "free" memory.

ccoltmanm said,
I love Windows 7 on both my desktop and my laptop. I have never tried it on a tablet.

GNU/Linux is the most suitable OS for tablets period. Low memory requirements, lightning fast boot times, and great centralised application management, oh, and no viruses/malware

Windows 7 is bloated, slow, and completely unsuitable for tablets. Hell, it's unsuitable for netbooks, but thankfully they are being replaced by tablets now. Linux FTW!

LoveThePenguin said,

GNU/Linux is the most suitable OS for tablets period. Low memory requirements, lightning fast boot times, and great centralised application management, oh, and no viruses/malware

Windows 7 is bloated, slow, and completely unsuitable for tablets. Hell, it's unsuitable for netbooks, but thankfully they are being replaced by tablets now. Linux FTW!

Windows 7 is the most beautiful and productive and the greatest OS EVER. It's incredibly secure and blazing fast. On the other hand Ubuntu is a fugly, pathetic and unusable OS. It reminds me of Windows 9x. Ubuntu can't run any great softwares like Office 2010, instead it makes people use the pathetic OpenOffice.

Bottom line is Linux is and always will be a crap. That's why it has just 1% market share. Windows 7 FTW.

LoveThePenguin said,

GNU/Linux is the most suitable OS for tablets period. Low memory requirements, lightning fast boot times, and great centralised application management, oh, and no viruses/malware

Except for this Linux Kernel exploit: http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...ernel-provides-root-rights/
Or the virus we recently found on one of our linux servers that was trying to hack the password on our SIP Linux box. But you are right, nothing ever bad happens with Linux.

LoveThePenguin said,

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

So... for you the word "efficient" is equal to "less" now isn't it?

LoveThePenguin said,

GNU/Linux is the most suitable OS for tablets period. Low memory requirements, lightning fast boot times, and great centralised application management, oh, and no viruses/malware

Sure it is, have you seen the market share of Windows based machines and the ones running Linux? If Linux users volume ever reaches Windows' one viruses and malware will be written targeting it.

LoveThePenguin said,

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

I think what he means is that you need to have at least 2GB of RAM to use that memory efficiently. It's called SuperFetch. It uses about 70% of your RAM, but its supposed it. This increases App startup time, boot time, and the like.

dotf said,

I love my touchsmart TM2.
I wouldn't go back to a non-touchscreen windows 7 installation, period.

I have the same tablet, and I live mine too! Those that say Windows 7 isn't for touch obviously haven't used one of these...

KaoDome said,

Sure it is, have you seen the market share of Windows based machines and the ones running Linux? If Linux users volume ever reaches Windows' one viruses and malware will be written targeting it.

oh please, the only reason viruses and malware isn't on linux is because, first executables downloaded have to be chmod u+x before you can even run it (no way around it), if you did manage to get it, no one is stupid enough to run as root unlike in Windows. 3rd, if a viruses was to be executed it would only affect the /home/<user> directory. Stop spreading FUD. Linux dominates the server market and the embedded market. So why isn't there viruses yet?

Windows has viruses because it's majority of users aren't knowledgeable in computers. While on the other hand, Linux has a more learning curve in it. With each separate distro having things done a certain way. How you going to deal with that? Windows OS is all the same even across all versions excluding Windows Vista and 7 which isn't that different. Majority of users still run crappy Windows XP so it makes it even much easier.

I love how you Windows fanbois try and blame excuses on such crap like "It's because of market share". You love trying to blame excuses for everything on stupid stuff like that. Why don't you just plainly admit it. I use all 3 OS's and I admit it, why can't you?

LoveThePenguin said,

GNU/Linux is the most suitable OS for tablets period. Low memory requirements, lightning fast boot times, and great centralised application management, oh, and no viruses/malware

Windows 7 is bloated, slow, and completely unsuitable for tablets. Hell, it's unsuitable for netbooks, but thankfully they are being replaced by tablets now. Linux FTW!

Absolute rubbish. Not only does 7 actually run a lot better on most low end machines, a lot of Linux distributions also have high memory consumption, for example Ubuntu and Kubuntu are both capable of easily consuming 400MB+ just from system overheads.

The second, and most amusing part of your ignorance, however, is that like most FOSStards, you have no idea how superfetch actually works, the idea is for it to utilise your memory as cache, preloading your most frequently used applications so that when you launch them they load very quickly. However this is scaled according to your amount of free memory, and if the memory is needed for something else, the preloaded items can be swapped out again. The baseline memory usage of Windows 7 is around 250 odd MB which is pretty comparable with every other OS of the same age. Prefetch causes no loss of performance at all. With XP meanwhile, all of your free memory is actually being wasted because it is empty.

@ZekeComa, you're assuming I'm a Windows user. Don't get me wrong, I'm an Arch Linux user (at least that's my main one, at work there's something different).

I said that because that's one of my thoughts about it. Simply, if I were to write something ("generic") to harm people/systems I'd try to get the greater impact; I wouldn't even try to find security holes for a system most people don't use.

Anyway and talking on Linux, packages are installed as root and I think most distros have third party repos or places where to get them like Ubuntu's PPAs or Arch's AUR. There are many people who trust those sources blindly and that's a potential risk.

KaoDome said,

So... for you the word "efficient" is equal to "less" now isn't it?

I don't think you understand.

Windows 7 actually puts your memory to good use. What's the point of having 8GB RAM if the OS just keeps it free all the time? W7 anticipates your actions (apps you load, tasks you perform on a regular basis etc) whereas XP does nothing of this. Therefore W7 has more efficient memory management.

LoveThePenguin said,

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

What a stupid argument. By using that logic I could argue that DOS 6 only uses 500k of memory. Does that mean we should run DOS on all tablets. People need to get over XP, it is old, outdated and insecure.

ccoltmanm said,
I love Windows 7 on both my desktop and my laptop. I have never tried it on a tablet.

I have seen it in use. Technicians from AT&T at my house trying to scroll or a friend browsing the web, all have to double do what they want. Clicking an icon may take an extra step or more effort, same as scrolling. Nothing is quite as polished or smoth.

That being said, I've been at bars and casinos and betting places where waitresses, hostesses, workers are using the iPAD seamlessly.

There needs to be a new Operating System made by Windows for tablets. It's as simple as that. They need to have an app store equivalant and it has to be marketed for just touch devices.

That is the only way I see Microsoft saturating the next market. They can put it on every tablet out there like they do with computers, and will leave Apple and their one product where it is at.

Exactly. I've been saying that for as long as I can remember in the whole tablet argument. A tablet is just used differently than a desktop or laptop would...

LoveThePenguin said,
Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?
Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

D00d you obviously do not understand the changes made for windows 7 that makes it more than what xp could ever hope to be. Imagine if your progeny exceeded beyond all your expectations...

KaoDome said,

Sure it is, have you seen the market share of Windows based machines and the ones running Linux? If Linux users volume ever reaches Windows' one viruses and malware will be written targeting it.

exactly

pezzonovante said,

Yes, it does. Windows 7 takes advantage of more memory, and allows programs to start up faster. On the other hand the pathetic XP wastes those "free" memory.

How would it do that when I had already disabled the superfetch service?

pezzonovante said,

Windows 7 is the most beautiful and productive and the greatest OS EVER. It's incredibly secure and blazing fast. On the other hand Ubuntu is a fugly, pathetic and unusable OS. It reminds me of Windows 9x. Ubuntu can't run any great softwares like Office 2010, instead it makes people use the pathetic OpenOffice.


Cool story bro.

nohone said,

Except for this Linux Kernel exploit: http://www.neowin.net/forum/to...ernel-provides-root-rights/
Or the virus we recently found on one of our linux servers that was trying to hack the password on our SIP Linux box. But you are right, nothing ever bad happens with Linux.

(1) Exploits and viruses are not the same thing. Every system has exploits, only windows has viruses/malware.
(2) This is an exploit that affected 64 bit kernels only (I use 32bit Ubuntu). Most of us Ubuntu users don't need more than 4 gig of ram because our systems aren't memory hogs unlike windows vista/7 even (with superfetch disabled).
(3) You're a bit late because a fix was released three days after the source article was published, that's four days ago now. Please provide evidence of a single compromised system (not a research case). And if you can't I'll put this down to more FUD as usual.
(4) An example of a real world exploit (you guessed it microsoft):
http://lifehacker.com/5111888/...temporary-fix-now-available
And yes you read that right, "an estimated 2 million PCs have already been infected". How many linux machines were compromised with this did you say?

Subject Delta said,

Absolute rubbish. Not only does 7 actually run a lot better on most low end machines.

So it would run fine on my acer one with 512 mb of ram then? I'd say that's a good example of a low end machine.

Subject Delta said,

a lot of Linux distributions also have high memory consumption, for example Ubuntu and Kubuntu are both capable of easily consuming 400MB+ just from system overheads

Oh, if you turn on all possible eye candy, widgets, system services, startup apps, you can go much higher than that, but of course that's not a base install is it? A base install of Ubuntu will probably occupy anywhere from 150-300mb depending on hardware capabilities (the system adjusts eye candy etc depending on your system). And if you want a real lean system, then Xubuntu is king, or switching to fluxbox or something.

Subject Delta said,

The second, and most amusing part of your ignorance, however, is that like most FOSStards, you have no idea how superfetch actually works, the idea is for it to utilise your memory as...

Hate to interject in mid-monologue, but I already disabled the superfetch service when I installed the system, so that memory usage has nothing to do with it. Got any other theories, or do you not understand how your own system works? It's a shame that is when the system is so obfuscated that you don't know what component does what

Subject Delta said,

The baseline memory usage of Windows 7 is around 250 odd MB

Screenshot screenshot!....
Ye cool story bro. Even if you disabled every service except the critical, I doubt you could get to 250 or below.

Edited by LoveThePenguin, Sep 24 2010, 4:07pm :

tele-fragd said,

What's the point of having 8GB RAM if the OS just keeps it free all the time?

Why didn't I think of that? It just makes so much sense for the OS to eat up all available ram. I'm surprised every other OS hasn't copied this idea.

tele-fragd said,

W7 anticipates your actions (apps you load, tasks you perform on a regular basis etc) whereas XP does nothing of this.

What even when I disable the superfetch service? That's impressive. Is this a similar concept to the most frequently used menu's? Because that was a sure fire hit.

So, what happens if I run a not frequently used program and it can't run properly because windows is using all the memory? Does windows then free some memory for it? That sure sounds like a lot of memory management calls. Is that what's called more efficient? What happens if I don't have a set of frequently used programs, where does all the memory go then? Like for instance when I've just installed the OS?

tele-fragd said,
Therefore W7 has more efficient memory management.

So what you're saying is, if the memory isn't in full use at anyone time, it's not being used efficiently? Amazing.

tele-fragd said,
I don't think you understand.

You're right there, I don't. You can't defend a lame duck.

Edited by LoveThePenguin, Sep 24 2010, 4:37pm :

Mungo23 said,

What a stupid argument. By using that logic I could argue that DOS 6 only uses 500k of memory.
You're right, it's even worse than I thought. That's for the logic reinforcement.
Mungo23 said,

Does that mean we should run DOS on all tablets.

Sure, could be fun eh?
Mungo23 said,

People need to get over XP, it is old, outdated and insecure.

Be sure to mention that to the majority of windows users who still use XP will you?

KaoDome said,
I wouldn't even try to find security holes for a system most people don't use.

Security in obscurity. I've never heard that one before. What about Linux server marketshare, android smartphones/tablets, where are all the viruses/malware? That argument doesn't hold up I'm afraid. Next...

KaoDome said,

Anyway and talking on Linux, packages are installed as root

And...?

KaoDome said,

and I think most distros have third party repos or places where to get them like Ubuntu's PPAs or Arch's AUR.

The people that use PPA's know what they're doing for a start. I use them myself, and the code is freely accessible to inspect.

KaoDome said,

There are many people who trust those sources blindly and that's a potential risk.

If you are talking about launchpad, then again, the source code is hosted on the site and readily available for inspection, and building. If there was anything untoward on a major project on that site, then many people would report it, and it would be removed. That's one of the benefits of peer review, something distinctly lacking in closed source proprietary software.

pezzonovante said,

Yes, it does. Windows 7 takes advantage of more memory,

Okay, so If I write a program that uses lots of memory for no reason, I can just say I'm taking advantage of the memory? That's the worst excuse for bloated inefficiency I think I've ever heard.

pezzonovante said,

and allows programs to start up faster.

You mean supposedly "Certain" programs. Not all programs. And remember, if programs are small enough, there is probably no discernible speed difference.

pezzonovante said,

On the other hand the pathetic XP wastes those "free" memory.

How can you waste free memory? It's free to be used when a system needs it,

LoveThePenguin said,

Really? I have an XP install which uses 115mb of ram without any apps running, and windows 7 which uses 700mb with no apps running. Does that sound more efficient?

Good luck trying to run windows 7 on 1gb of ram without it thrashing the swap space (read: hard drive).

I....do. On a netbook. And it runs....fine (gasp). What exactly, may I ask, do you want your "free memory" to be doing if it's not being used by the system?

LoveThePenguin said,

Or Android/Ubuntu.

But this is what everyone wanted, Windows 7 on a sexy looking Tablet, it must be better than the crippled iPad, I just cant wait! that is what I generally remember about these.

Quattrone said,
They need to trash Windows 7 into the garbage and replace it with WebOS.

WebOS? are you nut? at least you could say Windows Phone 7 or Android. But personally I'm liking REAL OS Windows 7 on a slate. Cause I will like to Paint on Photoshop (with some fancy filter like Nik Software & Alien Skin) or Autodesk SketchPad beside browsing. I will like to do something (really something) with 3D Max 7.0 & Adobe SoundBooth beside Chatting. I will not mind if they let me run Photoshop Lightroom for processing my Camera's RAW file & Adobe Flash Professional for making animation (yes just saying it.)

Faisal Islam said,

But personally I'm liking REAL OS Windows 7 on a slate. Cause I will like to Paint on Photoshop (with some fancy filter like Nik Software & Alien Skin) or Autodesk SketchPad

Have fun using the controls in Photoshop on a small touch-screen like that. This is my main complaint with the idea of using a desktop OS on these types of devices. You can optimize the OS for touch input all you want, but so long as third-party apps are still geared to a mouse and keyboard with a large screen, you are going to have difficulty using those apps.