HTC shares plummet due to Apple lawsuit loss

As a result of the recent International Trade Commission (ITC) ruling that Taiwanese phone manufacturer HTC violated two of Apple’s patents, HTC’s share prices have plummeted. Due to the fears of an import ban on HTC devices into the United States as well as the possibility of having to pay royalty fees to Apple, shares have been falling throughout the past week, and today fell as much as 6.5% as investors panicked.

As the Financial Times reported, HTC announced over the weekend that they would spend between T$18bn and T$22bn (US$622.3m-$760.6m) to buy back 2.44% of its outstanding shares in an attempt to stop their shrinking stock price. Despite the companies' best efforts to stabilize the dropping price, their stock fell to T$871 to close down 3.9% at the end of trading.

While investors continue to shed their HTC stock, the ITC hasn’t actually announced any import ban on HTC products as the agency’s commissioners haven’t as yet supported the ruling. HTC announced they would be appealing the ITC decision, so any final result could be a long time and several million dollars away.

The patents held by Apple and found to be infringed upon by HTC are broad, and could affect other Android smartphone manufacturers such as Motorola, Samsung and LG. It is unclear if Apple will file similar litigation against the other Android device manufacturers, but if they do it could spell a massive legal battle between Apple, Google and the Android phone makers.

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Surely it wouldn't be right or fair if Apple decide to not bother with the other smart phone makers?
I hope they don't, then this whole thing erupts in their face and this whole suing each other thing is dropped.
It makes me respect companies less because they are not loosing thousands or millions of money. Yet the little independent shop round the corner is a very different story. Shame on the big corporations!

Would love to see all big android makers like Motorola, Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony Ericsson along with Google gearing up for the ultimate showdown against Apple in a courtroom brawl. Lawsuits, counterlawsuits! Man, it'll be friggin WW3. And Apple will go down like Nazis

gzAsher said,
Would love to see all big android makers like Motorola, Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony Ericsson along with Google gearing up for the ultimate showdown against Apple in a courtroom brawl. Lawsuits, counterlawsuits! Man, it'll be friggin WW3. And Apple will go down like Nazis

I wish I live long enough to see that day, which may or may not come

I find it curious that Android has followed the mistakes of its Linux legacy as well as the mistakes of Microsoft with Windows Mobile. Just as Linux, Android is also a intellectual property nightmare, plaged with code and ideas taken blatantly from other platforms and the hardware vendors that choose to use it are at their own risk with no backing for support from the entity that distributes the OS. Just as Microsoft with Windows Mobile, Google has very little control on the hardware manufacturers, who choose to skin the OS, put it in a myriad of different hardware platforms that may or may not be ideal for the OS, and both users as well as Google have also little control over the apps that choose to keep running in background for no apparent justifiable reason, draining battery and making device sluggish over time. Use can kill some of this background apps but the keep appearing back. This Apple win is very dangerous for Android and I have no idea why Google has not stepped out to protect them. If HTC loses business because of this, other OEM will think twice before making more Android devices; nobody wants to deal with Apple's attorneys. All this will be great for WP7, though, since Apple cannot sue Microsoft because of their inmense intellectual property portfolio.

Charles Keledjian said,
I find it curious that Android has followed the mistakes of its Linux legacy as well as the mistakes of Microsoft with Windows Mobile. Just as Linux, Android is also a intellectual property nightmare, plaged with code and ideas taken blatantly from other platforms and the hardware vendors that choose to use it are at their own risk with no backing for support from the entity that distributes the OS. Just as Microsoft with Windows Mobile, Google has very little control on the hardware manufacturers, who choose to skin the OS, put it in a myriad of different hardware platforms that may or may not be ideal for the OS, and both users as well as Google have also little control over the apps that choose to keep running in background for no apparent justifiable reason, draining battery and making device sluggish over time. Use can kill some of this background apps but the keep appearing back. This Apple win is very dangerous for Android and I have no idea why Google has not stepped out to protect them. If HTC loses business because of this, other OEM will think twice before making more Android devices; nobody wants to deal with Apple's attorneys. All this will be great for WP7, though, since Apple cannot sue Microsoft because of their inmense intellectual property portfolio.

Windows Mobile, legacy? You really don't understand how WinCE is designed if you think it has legacy ties holding it back.

This is like talking about NT and calling it a legacy OS.

WinCE was a quick kernel solution for WP7, and even with what legacy of the 6.x kernel in WP7 (which is replaced in Mango with the 7.x kernel), it is marginally faster than Linux, especially even when Android itself has to bypass many of the service levels of Linux and re-implement them in Android directly, and fundamental things like Memory Management.

The 'legacy' you speak of does not seem to be a part of the real world, or a WP7 device with a 1ghz snapdragon and Adreno GPU is pushing out numbers faster than the Qualcomm hardware benched numbers.


As for Google, they messed up, they didn't pay attention to what Microsoft did right, by having 'consistency' even if it took some growing pains for OEMs, and created a ball of duct tape with bandaids, instead of designing a clean OS.

WP7 at least uses a clean new .NET CLR based OS platform based on Silverlight that is kernel agnostic, and is only using the basics of WinCe because it is really fast with a really fast driver model. As Microsoft wants to put Windows NT itself under WP, it can seamlessly, and still have backwards compatibility and offer a real Windows desktop and applications if they want.

KingCrimson said,
Isn't HTC just a Apple copycat company? At least Samsung makes beautiful products.

Yes, just like Microsoft is an Apple copycat company if you don't live in reality...

Here is the wiki info on HTC, which is accruate:

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Corporation
"HTC began designing some of the world's first touch and wireless hand-held devices in 1998.[6] The company has a rich heritage of many "firsts", including creating the first Microsoft-powered smartphone (2002) and the first Microsoft 3G phone (2005).[5] Their first major product was made in 2000 and was one of the world's first touch screen smartphones"

So Apple copied HTC a lot, which is why this is so freaking insane...

(Also Apple copied Microsoft a lot, even if you just look at devices and smartphones. -And I hope you bring up Newton, as it copied was knock off of several products and technologies from IBM, Microsoft, and Casio. If you are researching Casio, be sure to notice that the Casio information on their touchscreen devices from the 1980s keeps getting scrubbed from sites like Wiki by Apple fanbois. They had a touch screen watch around 1983, and a touch screen PDA around 1986. Also be sure to look up the IBM Simon, that was the first touchscren production phone, from around 1991/1992.)

I am not an Apple fan as I do own a Verizon iPhone. I had a HTC Droid (Eris). The company itself refused to updated the software on the phone. HTC does have an awesome UI for Android, but then refuse to update the Android software after Google releases new versions. Less the Apple iPhone can be updated to the newest version.

I feel that if you have a phone with a two year contact, then the manufacturer needs to least have support for the phone.

audacioustrash said,
I am not an Apple fan as I do own a Verizon iPhone. I had a HTC Droid (Eris). The company itself refused to updated the software on the phone. HTC does have an awesome UI for Android, but then refuse to update the Android software after Google releases new versions. Less the Apple iPhone can be updated to the newest version.

I feel that if you have a phone with a two year contact, then the manufacturer needs to least have support for the phone.

Google is the reason could no longer afford to update the phones, and they are not the only company. Essentially every Android phone sold today, will NEVER see an update. This has been stated by every OEM from Samsung to Motorola.

The way Android works, the OEM has to code specifics to the device/compile/build/test and work with the carrier. This is a lot of work for ONE phone, when they have several phones, and several carriers.

People assume that Android is like WP7 and 'just works' on devices, and it doesn't. If you look at Cyanogen ROM mods, you will notice the work that is involved in trying to get ANY Android update or version running properly on EVERY phone.

The last real update to be distributed was 2.2, and even then, many OEMs gave up, falling back to 2.1 or leaving the phones at the version they shipped with. This is why there are so many Android phones still running 1.5, 1.6, 2.1, and 2.2 - even though 2.3.4 is out.

This is NOT an HTC problem, this is a problem with Android, and you need to really understand this to put the blame where it belongs, and that is in the lap of Google.

This is also why WP7 is appealing, as not does Microsoft manage the code and the builds for the OEMs, it is designed around specific minimum design specifications, so that it will just run on various phones with only a few driver modifications, again that Microsoft handles.

Microsoft also handles the updates, leaving the OEMs only to test, just like the do with desktop Windows. This model is what made Windows a success on desktop computers and will probably do the same for WP7.

audacioustrash said,

So sorry about the double post.


while i dont like htc phone I wouldnt want them to go out of business. They might be making phones not to my liking but its good for the competition.

audacioustrash said,
Good News! I hope HTC goes out of business. I hate them with passion.

Why's that then? I love my Desire HD to bits, the UI is one of the best available and the build quality is fantastic, the amount of times i've dropped it is crazy and it's still literally pristine.

Apple just don't like competition and it's childish, they've got enough of the market as it is

sweatshopking said,
JUST GET WP7 AND PROFIT.

You do realise that HTC make WP7 handsets as well, if Apple win these patent suits then they may try going after WP7 as well.

neo158 said,
You do realise that HTC make WP7 handsets as well, if Apple win these patent suits then they may try going after WP7 as well.
They really won't.. Unlike Android, WP7 is controlled by MS, not the manufactures and the like. Microsoft and Apple have a patent sharing agreement that gives eachother access to all their patents, ergo, WP7 is in the clear.

neo158 said,

You do realise that HTC make WP7 handsets as well, if Apple win these patent suits then they may try going after WP7 as well.

Do you understand what a patent is?

neo158 said,

You do realise that HTC make WP7 handsets as well, if Apple win these patent suits then they may try going after WP7 as well.

Unlike Google, MS backs WP7, google just throws android around and stays silent.

Ryoken said,
They really won't.. Unlike Android, WP7 is controlled by MS, not the manufactures and the like. Microsoft and Apple have a patent sharing agreement that gives eachother access to all their patents, ergo, WP7 is in the clear.

Yeah, and lets not forget that iOS 5 rips off features from WP7, even violating a patent for the camera interface on WP7 blatantly. If Apple, were to attack, then Microsoft would surely no longer continue to withhold countersuing, and Apple would surely lose.

PlogCF said,

Yeah, and lets not forget that iOS 5 rips off features from WP7, even violating a patent for the camera interface on WP7 blatantly. If Apple, were to attack, then Microsoft would surely no longer continue to withhold countersuing, and Apple would surely lose.
No you don't understand. They CAN'T sue eachother over patent violations, as they have a deal in place to share them. Apple can use anything MS patented, likewise MS can use anything Apple patented.

It's a brilliant idea. Both companies are large enough to have a decent patent portfolio, and having access to the other ones is worth giving access to theirs, as they both benefit from not being able to use eachothers. More companies should do it. It also prevents future litigation from either side over patent disputes.

Ryoken said,
No you don't understand. They CAN'T sue eachother over patent violations, as they have a deal in place to share them. Apple can use anything MS patented, likewise MS can use anything Apple patented.

It's a brilliant idea. Both companies are large enough to have a decent patent portfolio, and having access to the other ones is worth giving access to theirs, as they both benefit from not being able to use eachothers. More companies should do it. It also prevents future litigation from either side over patent disputes.

Apple may regret this patent-sharing deal as they are the ones with everything to lose.

neo158 said,

You do realise that HTC make WP7 handsets as well, if Apple win these patent suits then they may try going after WP7 as well.


Would not happen because Apple and Microsoft have patent deals between each other.

KingCrimson said,

Apple may regret this patent-sharing deal as they are the ones with everything to lose.

Not really. Microsoft has been in the Smartphone game for a LONG time. They were making Windows CE -> PocketPC -> Windows Mobile far longer than Apple has been making the iPhone. So although Apple makes the stuff that consumers like Microsoft more than likely has a good share of patents that would cover the stuff Apple needs.

Especially as Apple starts pushing into the business arena like they are doing lately.

Ryoken said,
No you don't understand. They CAN'T sue eachother over patent violations, as they have a deal in place to share them. Apple can use anything MS patented, likewise MS can use anything Apple patented.

It's a brilliant idea. Both companies are large enough to have a decent patent portfolio, and having access to the other ones is worth giving access to theirs, as they both benefit from not being able to use eachothers. More companies should do it. It also prevents future litigation from either side over patent disputes.

Oh they can sue, and Apple has been testing these waters, as they want the agreement dissolved, as their legal team doesn't realize how much Microsoft technology is in use in Apple products.

Apple and Microsoft had a similar agreement/licensing TWICE in the 1980s and Apple sued Microsoft both times trying to circumvent the agreement.

There is also the legal validity of the agreement, as there are legal constraints that could rule it invalid or not legally binding. Again, Apple's legal people buy the Apple spin and crap, and don't realize that if this Agreement breaks, Microsoft has far more things to throw at Apple, and could get OS X, iOS, and all the subsequent hardware pulled from distribution. (Even the GPUs in all Macs, and iPhones, and iPads are based on Microsoft technology - which is a nice card for Microsoft to hold, and most people don't realize it.)

BGM said,
this is pretty big news imo, once again highlighting the joke that is patent laws

I agree

These patent battles are killing the market!

Tony. said,

And what's wrong with Android?

It's a fully capable OS that's monetarily and intellectually free so it scares the crap out of Microsoft and Apple, and thus their fanboys.

Tony. said,

And what's wrong with Android?

Google decides not to defend Android. That is the problem, not the laws. We aren't watching some monster company like Microsoft trying to kill a small company like Neowin here... Seriously.

MS Lose32 said,
+1
The idea of owning an idea is stupid.

An idea is patentable. You have to patent real things...

Software code is real things and not an "idea". I'm not a huge fan of software patents, but they aren't just "ideas".

Frazell Thomas said,

Google decides not to defend Android. That is the problem, not the laws. We aren't watching some monster company like Microsoft trying to kill a small company like Neowin here... Seriously.

An idea is patentable. You have to patent real things...

Software code is real things and not an "idea". I'm not a huge fan of software patents, but they aren't just "ideas".

True about Google, they don't care, and even if they did, they don't have the legal protections or patents or prior art to compete with Apple.

As for software patents, Apple is behind their existence, and the messed up way the are defined that slides out of normal patent law. Apple was litigious going back to the begining, and now that they are a 800lb Gorilla, they are resuming where they left off in the 80s of suing anyone that looks at them funny.

The other problem with what Apple is doing is they are shifting the definitions of software and hardware patents, so that they include the 'description' of the idea and not just the 'idea'. This is dangerous, because if you can assume ownership of the 'description', then you have power to yank in things that were not your idea. Which could harm them as well, as other patent holders could then use this shift in definitions against Apple.

(The best analogy of what Apple is doing is like this: Patent Idea 'Ball made of special compound to bounce higher' - and in their description of the idea, they have 'Flexible ball made of special compund XYZ that bounces higher than any other ball'. So they are using this broad descriptive language to assume patent rights to all Flexible Balls, Balls that bound higher than other balls, and anything with the look and feel of a flexible ball.

This was not the intent of the patent, nor what the patent was issued based on. Sadly, technology ignorance in legal systems don't see what is Apple is doing, as they don't even understand balls, let alone what makes the patent specific and what is not specific to the patent.)

So we will have a bigger melt down of technology patents unless Microsoft or a group of technology companies can step in and demonstrate to the courts or the lawmakers the deception Apple is using.

Tony. said,

And what's wrong with Android?


Apparently it shares the same first letter as a certain rotten fruit company...and is therefore, not revolutionary...

HoochieMamma said,
Quick, everyone buy some HTC stock!

So we can lose money when it keeps falling? Nah, no thanks, I got bills to pay.