id's John Carmack would be happy if Windows 8 didn't exist

There's been quite a few bricks thrown in Microsoft's "window" lately by high profile game developers concerning Windows 8, including Valve's Gabe Newell, Blizzard's Rob Pardo and Minecraft creator Markus "Notch" Persson. This week, id Software co-founder and head programmer John Carmack, the man behind the engines of the Doom and Quake games, and most recently Rage, made his thoughts known about Microsoft and Windows 8 known during his annual, and lengthy, keynote address at this year's QuakeCon event.

The entire 3 1/2 hour keynote has now been uploaded to YouTube and near the 2:47 hour mark, Carmack is asked about Windows 8 from an audience member. Carmack admits that the team at id worked on Windows XP "until the bitter end" and then transferred to Windows 7, skipping over Vista for the most part. He says that no one at id is working with Windows 8 at the moment, although he also says they should start testing with Windows 8 soon since the upcoming release of Doom 3 BFG Edition will be out close to the time that Windows 8 is launched in October.

Carmack stated that while he has more respect for Microsoft than others do, he has some doubts that the new touch-based UI in Windows 8 (formerly known as Metro) will be successful. That said, he also admits that he is "kind of excited" at seeing a Surface tablet.

Overall, Carmack said that he is "pretty darn happy" with working on Windows 7 and he would be happy if Windows 8 didn't actually exist, saying that there is nothing in Windows 8 that he is looking forward to.

The entire keynote is well worth watching as Carmack goes into detail on a ton of PC hardware and software topics, including his new obsession with the Oculus Rift VR hardware project. Oh, and there's still no word on when Doom 4 will be released; sorry.

Source: YouTube

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I am Not PCyr said,

Where did the 12x networking come from ?
Reliable file system according to whom or what ?
Why do you guys insist on making bold claims with nothing to back them up ?
What was the testing methodology used ?
Is it too much to ask for some details to claims that Win 8 is magic ?


Maybe you should read more windows news if you want to engage into these conversations

John Carmack said about a million more interesting things than that in the conference; of course, they'd not generate as many useless comments on forum boards. Anyway, thanks for the link.

I was wondering why didnt the include some automated feature that when you install win 8 it will automatically detect if you have a touched base hardware or not, if not then do not load the metro OS, i mean you've got to admit it there are almost two OS's running side by side.

Lets ignore the great performance Windows 8 delivers because we don't like the start panel. Give it a few months and lets see how you feel again. As far as concerning game devs time they felt the competition.

Riva said,
Lets ignore the great performance Windows 8 delivers because we don't like the start panel. Give it a few months and lets see how you feel again. As far as concerning game devs time they felt the competition.

references ?

I've been pleading with the cheerleaders around here for awhile
asking for some shred of proof to back up the bold claims
about Windows 8's dramatic performance improvements but i still haven't gotten one reply..

I do remember seeing a news article here stating a story about how start up times
were bench marked and they were faster, but this does not appeal to me..
I couldn't care less if it boots slightly quicker

Really starting to think the fanboys are full of crap !
The best i can get is someone insulting me in response or changing the subject etc

Where is the proof ?

you really think its in Microsoft's interest to bend over to some small company?
if microsoft wants to be worth billions years from now then they will know what needs to be done.
If companies life Id cant be bothered to change then they will fail

Ok John, Notch ans co... Si, what's the deal ? We all stick with Windows 7 ? Windows 7 is the best OS in the world ? No one need anymore ? Anything else ?
Si Microsoft doesn't need to investigate about touch devices ? Thé iPad ans tablet success isn't a threat over PC market ? So, Game developer will always develop for Windows 7 first and Microsoft doesn't need to go over touch devices, then if needed, Windows 7 is really ok for touch devices ? Or the best strategy is Apple segmentation : one différent OS for each kind of device ?
I don't understand their deal... They really want us to stick in 2010, with Windows 7 ? I don't understand why they troll Windows 8 as long as Windows 8 is Windows 7... And that Windows RT co-exist with An all capable desktop OS like Windows 7...

Windows 8 is going to be the second biggest failure in Microsoft's history. Realistically I don't think it will fail harder than Microsoft Bob did, but I think it is going to be pretty close. As for the tablets I doubt they'll stick around either, they're the Zunes of tablet computing. They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.

TRC said,
Windows 8 is going to be the second biggest failure in Microsoft's history. Realistically I don't think it will fail harder than Microsoft Bob did, but I think it is going to be pretty close. As for the tablets I doubt they'll stick around either, they're the Zunes of tablet computing. They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.

Keep up with Apple? You mean retain the same UI forever?

TRC said,
They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.
Well Apple has basically not changed the UI in like forever. Hardware wise they also have not really done anything spectacular and basically packaged the same thing in different form factors for the last 5 years. The rest of the world has been ahead of Apple for about three years now.

So pretty much what im seeing is they are svared of microsoft taking momey from them if they use the store. Get with the times.

I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

Seems strange how people make claims with no evidence all the time everywhere.
because if cheerleaders had proof to these enhancements they would be shoving
down the throats of anyone that criticized Windows 8

I am Not PCyr said,
I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

Max Norris said,

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

Not to mention that other than being a Microsoft shareholder (and a rather tiny amount of stock at that), I have literally zero reason to shill for Windows 8. (And to be honest, I also own Google stock, and support users of Android and OS X (in fact, I *have* Mountain Lion on one of my three HDDs that I use). Further, the reasons I run - and run quite happily - Windows 8 have nothing to do with the touch-based UI; considering I run it on a desktop without a touch-screen or any other touch support, *that* would be rather silly. I run FAR more WinRT games than WinRT *apps* - out of all the WinRT apps I have seen so far, one - repeat, ONE - is a keeper IMHO. (I've even said that WinRT apps likely are going to have issues crossing over to desktops due to their larger screen sizes; what works for 13" displays will have issues with even 22" displays - let alone larger. Games don't have that problem - however, applications do. If anything, Win32 has the same problem in reverse - it doesn't downscale to smaller screens well in terms of applications; consider how many portable computer users have issues with Word, or Excel, for example - let alone Outlook. Games on portable computers? Please; there the downscaling issue is exacerbated by battery-power demands. (StarCraft II and Crysis 2 in their basic modes are *barely* friendly to notebooks today - and they well and truly got castigated for even that.) On the one hand, we - as users, developers, what-have-you, gripe and whine about the lack of cutting-edge games, applications, OSes; then, when someone actually dares to listen to us and try to DO something about it (which is exactly what Microsoft is, in fact, trying to do) we backtrack, get Pharonic, and refuse to move. If (and I actually hope the naysayers get egg on their faces) Windows 8 fails, why the heck should Microsoft listen to us? We will have once again proven that we aren't serious. We SAY one thing, but we're incapable (or unwilling) to actually reward those that listen to us.

Max Norris said,

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

I am gonna..
And I'll post 100% unbiased results not a written by Microsoft "blog post"
as speed improvement fixs.

If it IS quicker fine.
If its not than as usual people on the internet need to shut the hell up.
I'm sick of people repeating each other and guessing because some people
said said it must be true. People (most of them) are ignorant and gullible.
And make next no effort to verify and facts, they just suck up the fud etc

A good example of interplanetary idiocy ?
Global Warming. People pass that info around endlessly and its all based
on a couple scientists basicly. How many people know some of these same scietists that found the problem 10 years later revealed that temps have gone down about 10 years consecutively. It's hype and bs. Dig deep into the history of it and you'll notice alarming facts such as the guy who started it modified the scientific report and has spent like 20 years making large money from the issue plus fame and recognition.

Idiots can think what ever they want.
Personaly I'd rather go verify what I hear and not absorb heresy and worse spread bs.

I am Not PCyr said,
I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

My W8 desktop comes out of sleep in about 3 seconds every time. No way in h*ll I was able to do that in W7, let alone the fact it was unsure whether it would come out in one piece. It also goes to sleep in well under 10 seconds generally. That was also way longer in W7.

rhianntp said,
Carmack is a brilliant man.. he is spot on correct here... Win8 = FAIL

That's not what he said, but... uh... ok...

rfirth said,

That's not what he said, but... uh... ok...

This argument can go two ways, but I think in the world of business you either succeed or fail and that there really isn't any "meh" option. Furthermore, his comment was, "he has some doubts that the new touch-based UI in Windows 8 (formerly known as Metro) will be successful."

Something is seriously wrong with you guys if you think Windows 9 will bring back the desktop, in case you all did not notice, Microsoft is killing the desktop. Holding your arms up to a touch screen all day to play a game is not feasible.

Time to move to a different platform, Microsoft is dead.

Mike Frett said,
Something is seriously wrong with you guys if you think Windows 9 will bring back the desktop,
Huh? Since when is the desktop gone? Been using W8 since the DP on my netbook and since CP on my desktop system and have not had one single reason to switch back.

I honestly do not get al this whining and moaning about the start screen. I always found the button to be a cluttered and messy useless blob. I now have everything I need on a daily basis neatly organized on the start screen. Nothing I need often is more that one key press (WINDOWS) and one mouse click (whatever I need) away.

In 6 months this will all be history and we'll all be happily using W8.. This so reminds me of the UUencode vs yEnc debates from many moons ago..

paulheu said,
In 6 months this will all be history and we'll all be happily using W8..

Tell that to Vista, it needs a good laugh.

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