id's John Carmack would be happy if Windows 8 didn't exist

There's been quite a few bricks thrown in Microsoft's "window" lately by high profile game developers concerning Windows 8, including Valve's Gabe Newell, Blizzard's Rob Pardo and Minecraft creator Markus "Notch" Persson. This week, id Software co-founder and head programmer John Carmack, the man behind the engines of the Doom and Quake games, and most recently Rage, made his thoughts known about Microsoft and Windows 8 known during his annual, and lengthy, keynote address at this year's QuakeCon event.

The entire 3 1/2 hour keynote has now been uploaded to YouTube and near the 2:47 hour mark, Carmack is asked about Windows 8 from an audience member. Carmack admits that the team at id worked on Windows XP "until the bitter end" and then transferred to Windows 7, skipping over Vista for the most part. He says that no one at id is working with Windows 8 at the moment, although he also says they should start testing with Windows 8 soon since the upcoming release of Doom 3 BFG Edition will be out close to the time that Windows 8 is launched in October.

Carmack stated that while he has more respect for Microsoft than others do, he has some doubts that the new touch-based UI in Windows 8 (formerly known as Metro) will be successful. That said, he also admits that he is "kind of excited" at seeing a Surface tablet.

Overall, Carmack said that he is "pretty darn happy" with working on Windows 7 and he would be happy if Windows 8 didn't actually exist, saying that there is nothing in Windows 8 that he is looking forward to.

The entire keynote is well worth watching as Carmack goes into detail on a ton of PC hardware and software topics, including his new obsession with the Oculus Rift VR hardware project. Oh, and there's still no word on when Doom 4 will be released; sorry.

Source: YouTube

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Something is seriously wrong with you guys if you think Windows 9 will bring back the desktop, in case you all did not notice, Microsoft is killing the desktop. Holding your arms up to a touch screen all day to play a game is not feasible.

Time to move to a different platform, Microsoft is dead.

Mike Frett said,
Something is seriously wrong with you guys if you think Windows 9 will bring back the desktop,
Huh? Since when is the desktop gone? Been using W8 since the DP on my netbook and since CP on my desktop system and have not had one single reason to switch back.

I honestly do not get al this whining and moaning about the start screen. I always found the button to be a cluttered and messy useless blob. I now have everything I need on a daily basis neatly organized on the start screen. Nothing I need often is more that one key press (WINDOWS) and one mouse click (whatever I need) away.

In 6 months this will all be history and we'll all be happily using W8.. This so reminds me of the UUencode vs yEnc debates from many moons ago..

paulheu said,
In 6 months this will all be history and we'll all be happily using W8..

Tell that to Vista, it needs a good laugh.

rhianntp said,
Carmack is a brilliant man.. he is spot on correct here... Win8 = FAIL

That's not what he said, but... uh... ok...

rfirth said,

That's not what he said, but... uh... ok...

This argument can go two ways, but I think in the world of business you either succeed or fail and that there really isn't any "meh" option. Furthermore, his comment was, "he has some doubts that the new touch-based UI in Windows 8 (formerly known as Metro) will be successful."

I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

Seems strange how people make claims with no evidence all the time everywhere.
because if cheerleaders had proof to these enhancements they would be shoving
down the throats of anyone that criticized Windows 8

I am Not PCyr said,
I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

Max Norris said,

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

Not to mention that other than being a Microsoft shareholder (and a rather tiny amount of stock at that), I have literally zero reason to shill for Windows 8. (And to be honest, I also own Google stock, and support users of Android and OS X (in fact, I *have* Mountain Lion on one of my three HDDs that I use). Further, the reasons I run - and run quite happily - Windows 8 have nothing to do with the touch-based UI; considering I run it on a desktop without a touch-screen or any other touch support, *that* would be rather silly. I run FAR more WinRT games than WinRT *apps* - out of all the WinRT apps I have seen so far, one - repeat, ONE - is a keeper IMHO. (I've even said that WinRT apps likely are going to have issues crossing over to desktops due to their larger screen sizes; what works for 13" displays will have issues with even 22" displays - let alone larger. Games don't have that problem - however, applications do. If anything, Win32 has the same problem in reverse - it doesn't downscale to smaller screens well in terms of applications; consider how many portable computer users have issues with Word, or Excel, for example - let alone Outlook. Games on portable computers? Please; there the downscaling issue is exacerbated by battery-power demands. (StarCraft II and Crysis 2 in their basic modes are *barely* friendly to notebooks today - and they well and truly got castigated for even that.) On the one hand, we - as users, developers, what-have-you, gripe and whine about the lack of cutting-edge games, applications, OSes; then, when someone actually dares to listen to us and try to DO something about it (which is exactly what Microsoft is, in fact, trying to do) we backtrack, get Pharonic, and refuse to move. If (and I actually hope the naysayers get egg on their faces) Windows 8 fails, why the heck should Microsoft listen to us? We will have once again proven that we aren't serious. We SAY one thing, but we're incapable (or unwilling) to actually reward those that listen to us.

Max Norris said,

Try it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, hit up Google, there's already published benchmarks out there. Most show that pretty much it's either more or less identical in some areas, faster in others, depending on what's getting tested.

I am gonna..
And I'll post 100% unbiased results not a written by Microsoft "blog post"
as speed improvement fixs.

If it IS quicker fine.
If its not than as usual people on the internet need to shut the hell up.
I'm sick of people repeating each other and guessing because some people
said said it must be true. People (most of them) are ignorant and gullible.
And make next no effort to verify and facts, they just suck up the fud etc

A good example of interplanetary idiocy ?
Global Warming. People pass that info around endlessly and its all based
on a couple scientists basicly. How many people know some of these same scietists that found the problem 10 years later revealed that temps have gone down about 10 years consecutively. It's hype and bs. Dig deep into the history of it and you'll notice alarming facts such as the guy who started it modified the scientific report and has spent like 20 years making large money from the issue plus fame and recognition.

Idiots can think what ever they want.
Personaly I'd rather go verify what I hear and not absorb heresy and worse spread bs.

I am Not PCyr said,
I think the W8 performance improvements being claimed are fanboy fantasy !
Start up times don't count either.

My W8 desktop comes out of sleep in about 3 seconds every time. No way in h*ll I was able to do that in W7, let alone the fact it was unsure whether it would come out in one piece. It also goes to sleep in well under 10 seconds generally. That was also way longer in W7.

So pretty much what im seeing is they are svared of microsoft taking momey from them if they use the store. Get with the times.

Windows 8 is going to be the second biggest failure in Microsoft's history. Realistically I don't think it will fail harder than Microsoft Bob did, but I think it is going to be pretty close. As for the tablets I doubt they'll stick around either, they're the Zunes of tablet computing. They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.

TRC said,
Windows 8 is going to be the second biggest failure in Microsoft's history. Realistically I don't think it will fail harder than Microsoft Bob did, but I think it is going to be pretty close. As for the tablets I doubt they'll stick around either, they're the Zunes of tablet computing. They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.

Keep up with Apple? You mean retain the same UI forever?

TRC said,
They should really just stop trying to keep up with the Apples and stick with what they know.
Well Apple has basically not changed the UI in like forever. Hardware wise they also have not really done anything spectacular and basically packaged the same thing in different form factors for the last 5 years. The rest of the world has been ahead of Apple for about three years now.

Ok John, Notch ans co... Si, what's the deal ? We all stick with Windows 7 ? Windows 7 is the best OS in the world ? No one need anymore ? Anything else ?
Si Microsoft doesn't need to investigate about touch devices ? Thé iPad ans tablet success isn't a threat over PC market ? So, Game developer will always develop for Windows 7 first and Microsoft doesn't need to go over touch devices, then if needed, Windows 7 is really ok for touch devices ? Or the best strategy is Apple segmentation : one différent OS for each kind of device ?
I don't understand their deal... They really want us to stick in 2010, with Windows 7 ? I don't understand why they troll Windows 8 as long as Windows 8 is Windows 7... And that Windows RT co-exist with An all capable desktop OS like Windows 7...

you really think its in Microsoft's interest to bend over to some small company?
if microsoft wants to be worth billions years from now then they will know what needs to be done.
If companies life Id cant be bothered to change then they will fail

Lets ignore the great performance Windows 8 delivers because we don't like the start panel. Give it a few months and lets see how you feel again. As far as concerning game devs time they felt the competition.

Riva said,
Lets ignore the great performance Windows 8 delivers because we don't like the start panel. Give it a few months and lets see how you feel again. As far as concerning game devs time they felt the competition.

references ?

I've been pleading with the cheerleaders around here for awhile
asking for some shred of proof to back up the bold claims
about Windows 8's dramatic performance improvements but i still haven't gotten one reply..

I do remember seeing a news article here stating a story about how start up times
were bench marked and they were faster, but this does not appeal to me..
I couldn't care less if it boots slightly quicker

Really starting to think the fanboys are full of crap !
The best i can get is someone insulting me in response or changing the subject etc

Where is the proof ?

I was wondering why didnt the include some automated feature that when you install win 8 it will automatically detect if you have a touched base hardware or not, if not then do not load the metro OS, i mean you've got to admit it there are almost two OS's running side by side.

John Carmack said about a million more interesting things than that in the conference; of course, they'd not generate as many useless comments on forum boards. Anyway, thanks for the link.

Always interesting to hear John Carmack speak. The guy is a legend and really modern gaming owes so much to the work he did on games like Doom and Quake.

I think he hits the nail on the head with Windows 8 which is where I think I've been failing to articulate my feelings in the past few months on the run up to it going RTM - Windows 7 works great, and honestly does all I want. There is nothing in Windows 8 that I need, or am looking forward to! That's what Carmack says and I agree with him!

Chicane-UK said,
Always interesting to hear John Carmack speak. The guy is a legend and really modern gaming owes so much to the work he did on games like Doom and Quake.

I think he hits the nail on the head with Windows 8 which is where I think I've been failing to articulate my feelings in the past few months on the run up to it going RTM - Windows 7 works great, and honestly does all I want. There is nothing in Windows 8 that I need, or am looking forward to! That's what Carmack says and I agree with him!

That's what I mean by the *I don't want to move* syndrome. All the improvements that Windows 8 offers existing software (or even existing hardware) get dismissed because you have to change (somewhat) how you interact with the operating system. I have a thread in the Microsoft Beta forum that covers this (The Real Reason for All The FUD About Windows 8), and it's looking more and more prophetic all the time - and I honestly wish it weren't.

Chicane-UK said,
Always interesting to hear John Carmack speak. The guy is a legend and really modern gaming owes so much to the work he did on games like Doom and Quake.

I think he hits the nail on the head with Windows 8 which is where I think I've been failing to articulate my feelings in the past few months on the run up to it going RTM - Windows 7 works great, and honestly does all I want. There is nothing in Windows 8 that I need, or am looking forward to! That's what Carmack says and I agree with him!


Nobody is making you buy it so you can stick to Windows 7 as long as you like. After all 12 times faster networking, a more reliable file system + others are not worth as much as the start menu.

PGHammer said,

That's what I mean by the *I don't want to move* syndrome. All the improvements that Windows 8 offers existing software (or even existing hardware) get dismissed because you have to change (somewhat) how you interact with the operating system. I have a thread in the Microsoft Beta forum that covers this (The Real Reason for All The FUD About Windows 8), and it's looking more and more prophetic all the time - and I honestly wish it weren't.

I would like to read your prophecy.
I will go have a look lol

Riva said,

Nobody is making you buy it so you can stick to Windows 7 as long as you like. After all 12 times faster networking, a more reliable file system + others are not worth as much as the start menu.

Where did the 12x networking come from ?
Reliable file system according to whom or what ?
Why do you guys insist on making bold claims with nothing to back them up ?
What was the testing methodology used ?
Is it too much to ask for some details to claims that Win 8 is magic ?

I am Not PCyr said,

Where did the 12x networking come from ?
Reliable file system according to whom or what ?
Why do you guys insist on making bold claims with nothing to back them up ?
What was the testing methodology used ?
Is it too much to ask for some details to claims that Win 8 is magic ?

I don't know about their claims, but MS has released a lot of details. Here's one source:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/

Edited by Kyang, Aug 5 2012, 7:52am :

I am Not PCyr said,

Where did the 12x networking come from ?
Reliable file system according to whom or what ?
Why do you guys insist on making bold claims with nothing to back them up ?
What was the testing methodology used ?
Is it too much to ask for some details to claims that Win 8 is magic ?


Maybe you should read more windows news if you want to engage into these conversations

John Carmack, Gabe Newell, and the folks at Blizzard *all* see that Windows is indeed under siege from tablets (iOS and Android - primarily Android); however, all are also offering the same advice - entrench and play defense (as opposed to Microsoft's counter-attack/counter-assault strategy). I'm going to state my opinion on the defensive/entrenchment strategy - do you honestly think it will work, or are you basically willing to surrender? First off, I seriously doubt that Google is going to stop pushing (and especially stop pushing Android) into invading what has been Windows' turf. Devices like the Eee Transformer Prime are indeed a problem *today*, and more will come - with or without WindowsRT. A poor economy will actually lead to MORE (not fewer) of these sorts of devices. I have to wonder - are all of these developers basically betting on Android?

PGHammer said,
John Carmack, Gabe Newell, and the folks at Blizzard *all* see that Windows is indeed under siege from tablets (iOS and Android - primarily Android); however, all are also offering the same advice - entrench and play defense (as opposed to Microsoft's counter-attack/counter-assault strategy). I'm going to state my opinion on the defensive/entrenchment strategy - do you honestly think it will work, or are you basically willing to surrender? First off, I seriously doubt that Google is going to stop pushing (and especially stop pushing Android) into invading what has been Windows' turf. Devices like the Eee Transformer Prime are indeed a problem *today*, and more will come - with or without WindowsRT. A poor economy will actually lead to MORE (not fewer) of these sorts of devices. I have to wonder - are all of these developers basically betting on Android?

Piracy is rampant on android so I'm going to imagine that developers that care about making money actually would prefer a walled garden... of their own making. Think about steam. It is drm. Even if they go to linux completely, it will be chocked full of DRM and if they made a console it would probably be locked down also as much as IOS. I would imagine that having an app store for windows might help more developers move more product. I think MS needs to do more for large devs like valve but I think android is not something that will make a profit for most game devs or so I've heard.

I've read all of these developers' complaints and none of them are are really sound or justified. They have the option to put their games in two different places: the desktop and the metro marketplace. What's wrong with choices??

aviator189 said,
I've read all of these developers' complaints and none of them are are really sound or justified. They have the option to put their games in two different places: the desktop and the metro marketplace. What's wrong with choices??

Remember the start menu? ask that to Microsoft.

aviator189 said,
I've read all of these developers' complaints and none of them are are really sound or justified. They have the option to put their games in two different places: the desktop and the metro marketplace. What's wrong with choices??
Look at the original quote, Carmack doesn't complains about Windows 8, he just says that Windows 7 is fine to him for now and that he won't spend thousands of dollars to upgrade its company to Windows 8.
Notch is afraid that MS lock Windows to run store apps only, which is arguable (for now no clue have been given regarding that).
Gabe & Blizzard are trolls because the new store is going to make them lose a lot of money, so they are trolling so their fanboy hordes will bash Windows 8 other the angry Internet.

Anthonyd said,
Look at the original quote, Carmack doesn't complains about Windows 8, he just says that Windows 7 is fine to him for now and that he won't spend thousands of dollars to upgrade its company to Windows 8.
Notch is afraid that MS lock Windows to run store apps only, which is arguable (for now no clue have been given regarding that).
Gabe & Blizzard are trolls because the new store is going to make them lose a lot of money, so they are trolling so their fanboy hordes will bash Windows 8 other the angry Internet.

So you conceed that Notch has a valid opinion in regards to Microsoft's closed store ecosystem, but you say Valve/Blizzard are "trolling" for having similar views, despite neither of them having gone into fine detail.

Double standards, strawman argument. Yup, you're a fanboy.

You probably only conceeded the point to Notch because you play Minecraft and the cognitive dissonance would be too painful, amirite?

Athernar said,
You probably only conceeded the point to Notch because you play Minecraft and the cognitive dissonance would be too painful, amirite?

TBH I find that Notch is a douchebad, especially when he asks to people to pirate his game, which is causing a lot of troubles for others indies dev. I'm not playing Minecraft at all as I found it really boring. He is afraid that Windows will only runs store apps, but nothing prevents him to put Minecraft on the store and he pushed Minecraft to the XBLA which is one of the most locked platform of all time, so yeah he is spreading the hate, yet he already made a pact with the devil.
Gabe said that Windows 8 will cause the death of some OEM. But OEM are already dying (HP stopped doing PC, DELL is concentrating a lot more on enterprise, ...), also Windows 8 allows OEM to target a broader audience with slate/tablet. So no, Gabe is either a troll or what he said has been miss-interpreted by the website who posted the news.
As you said, we don't know a lot about Blizzard but there's nothing more obvious than the fact that they are scared of the Windows store.

Anthonyd said,

TBH I find that Notch is a douchebad, especially when he asks to people to pirate his game, which is causing a lot of troubles for others indies dev. I'm not playing Minecraft at all as I found it really boring. He is afraid that Windows will only runs store apps, but nothing prevents him to put Minecraft on the store and he pushed Minecraft to the XBLA which is one of the most locked platform of all time, so yeah he is spreading the hate, yet he already made a pact with the devil.
Gabe said that Windows 8 will cause the death of some OEM. But OEM are already dying (HP stopped doing PC, DELL is concentrating a lot more on enterprise, ...), also Windows 8 allows OEM to target a broader audience with slate/tablet. So no, Gabe is either a troll or what he said has been miss-interpreted by the website who posted the news.
As you said, we don't know a lot about Blizzard but there's nothing more obvious than the fact that they are scared of the Windows store.

So your solution to not liking the store being locked down and the sole method of distribution to the Metro side of 8 and beyond is, put your product on the store and take it like a good little boy? Are you even thinking about what you type?

If anyone is scared, it's Microsoft. The store is an absolute joke for Triple A games.

Athernar said,
If anyone is scared, it's Microsoft. The store is an absolute joke for Triple A games.
Why ? All apps can runs native C/C++ code and use XBOX LIVE integration.

Also it seems that you missed the difference between "locked OS" and "locked store".

Anthonyd said,
Why ? All apps can runs native C/C++ code and use XBOX LIVE integration.

Also it seems that you missed the difference between "locked OS" and "locked store".

Because Xbox Live sucks. The only possible reason anyone would want to use it is because they're already locked-in as a 360 exclusive and are making a crappy PC port.

Steam offers far more features both user-facing (Workshop, Community, Greenlight) and developer-facing (Steamworks, regional pricing), plus has a well established installbase which are heavily invested into their accounts. Oh, and then there are the Steam sales too.

And no, I did not miss the distinction because the former is irrelevant to the point about the store.

Athernar said,
Because Xbox Live sucks. The only possible reason anyone would want to use it is because they're already locked-in as a 360 exclusive and are making a crappy PC port.

Steam offers far more features both user-facing (Workshop, Community, Greenlight) and developer-facing (Steamworks, regional pricing), plus has a well established installbase which are heavily invested into their accounts. Oh, and then there are the Steam sales too.

And no, I did not miss the distinction because the former is irrelevant to the point about the store.


XBOX Live & Windows 8 store have community integration/steamworks/regional pricing/sales. It doesn't have workshop (which isn't used that much even if it's a cool feature it's not mandatory for "AAA games"), and greenlight hasn't seen the light yet, so it's hard to discuss about it.

There's no major complain about porting an AAA game into the Windows Store, with 400 millions Windows 8 devices by the end of 2013 (+ARM devices) it will catch up on steam (40millions accounts) a lot faster. And that's why gabe/blizzard are scared about it, they know that they are going to loose ******** of money.

Anthonyd said,

XBOX Live & Windows 8 store have community integration/steamworks/regional pricing/sales. It doesn't have workshop (which isn't used that much even if it's a cool feature it's not mandatory for "AAA games"), and greenlight hasn't seen the light yet, so it's hard to discuss about it.

There's no major complain about porting an AAA game into the Windows Store, with 400 millions Windows 8 devices by the end of 2013 (+ARM devices) it will catch up on steam (40millions accounts) a lot faster. And that's why gabe/blizzard are scared about it, they know that they are going to loose ******** of money.

Thw Windows 8 store most certainly does not have Steamworks, nor does it have a Community feature like Steam's.

Workshop is quite heavily used by TF2, Portal 2, Skyrim and Dota 2. With more games adding support as time goes on.

Greenlight is a feature to allow for community interaction with the approval process, not sure what is so hard to discuss about that.

No major complaints? Because nobody has bothered to do so, and your stats are meaningless because the 8 store is far more broad than just games.

So no, Blizzard and Valve are not scared. Because they know that the store doesn't hold a candle to their platforms, and Blizzard know they can just roll out a new MMO and roll in the cash.

Microsoft is scared. Scared because they know consoles are dying.

i don't care if you wanna make speculations on what a bunch of diverse programmers say, trying to glean truth out of reading between the lines is not gonna pan out.

Have you considered that they KNOW every word that comes out of their mouth
(regarding windows 8) is going to quoted across the globe instantly,
did you consider maybe they have tried to be tactful or even nice ?
I would for sure choose my words very carefully if i were in their shoes
and i would probably try and say as little as possible about W8 publicly.
If you do or potentially might do business with Microsoft you might curb your tongue ?

Athernar said,
Thw Windows 8 store most certainly does not have Steamworks, nor does it have a Community feature like Steam's.

Workshop is quite heavily used by TF2, Portal 2, Skyrim and Dota 2. With more games adding support as time goes on.

Greenlight is a feature to allow for community interaction with the approval process, not sure what is so hard to discuss about that.

No major complaints? Because nobody has bothered to do so, and your stats are meaningless because the 8 store is far more broad than just games.

So no, Blizzard and Valve are not scared. Because they know that the store doesn't hold a candle to their platforms, and Blizzard know they can just roll out a new MMO and roll in the cash.

Microsoft is scared. Scared because they know consoles are dying.


XBOXLive has community features. Greenlight is useless on the Windows World because MS doesn't refuse your apps/game because Gabe said "no". They are just forcing you to go through a certification process to ensure that you don't **** up other your customer. Look at Wanderlust: Rebirth, it's an indie game that VALVe refused to put on steam (for no valid reason) and when the devs of Terraria asked them to put it into the store they did it. But it's the same game/product. Greenlight is a joke compared to MS model.

My stats aren't meaningless, they are predictions based on the number of PC sold since the last few years, there's a clear trend that shows that they'll sell 400 millions Windows 8 PC by the end of 2013. Steam accounts number is based on Wikipedia which gives it sources inside the steam article.

The best part about your post is the "consoles are dying", we hear that since other a decade now but they are selling more & more consoles every years. It's far from dying. And the fact that they are milking the current generation of console by not releasing the next gen already should prove you my point.

Anthonyd said,

XBOXLive has community features. Greenlight is useless on the Windows World because MS doesn't refuse your apps/game because Gabe said "no". They are just forcing you to go through a certification process to ensure that you don't **** up other your customer. Look at Wanderlust: Rebirth, it's an indie game that VALVe refused to put on steam (for no valid reason) and when the devs of Terraria asked them to put it into the store they did it. But it's the same game/product. Greenlight is a joke compared to MS model.

My stats aren't meaningless, they are predictions based on the number of PC sold since the last few years, there's a clear trend that shows that they'll sell 400 millions Windows 8 PC by the end of 2013. Steam accounts number is based on Wikipedia which gives it sources inside the steam article.

The best part about your post is the "consoles are dying", we hear that since other a decade now but they are selling more & more consoles every years. It's far from dying. And the fact that they are milking the current generation of console by not releasing the next gen already should prove you my point.

Did I say it didn't have community features? No. I said it didn't have features like Steam does.

Greenlight useless in the Windows world? Now you're just being clueless: http://www.xblafans.com/indie-...um-refused-for-xbla-41.html and http://www.thesixthaxis.com/20...her-for-strangers-wrath-hd/

Your stats are meaningless because they have no relevance. Not every customer will be a gamer, far from it. Making such a comparison is idiotic.

The best part about your post is where you made poor comparisons and false claims. As far as the consoles are dying part? Just look at the reception of E3 2012, and the resurgeance of PC gaming. 'nuff said. Consoles were doomed from the start, doomed to be subsumed back into the PC.

Microsoft are scared.

Anthonyd said,
Look at the original quote, Carmack doesn't complains about Windows 8, he just says that Windows 7 is fine to him for now and that he won't spend thousands of dollars to upgrade its company to Windows 8.
Notch is afraid that MS lock Windows to run store apps only, which is arguable (for now no clue have been given regarding that).
Gabe & Blizzard are trolls because the new store is going to make them lose a lot of money, so they are trolling so their fanboy hordes will bash Windows 8 other the angry Internet.

Why would John be this cheap, and not be curious about the technologies to at least have some internal Windows 8 machines and work being done. It isn't like they have to even invest in developer tools for minimal testing.

This is what gives me a WTH moment, as this is what they do, and yet our techs and lab have more experience with Windows 8 graphical development and technologies.

We don't do graphics for a living, we are research, and we don't depend on the latest platform technologies.

Id does, and he has no curiosity about Windows 8, to at least assign a few people to test builds on it or work with it and see how WDM 1.2 and OpenGL if that is their bag, works rather impressive together.

They are also missing advantages of their current development. Even targeting OpenGL or DX11 and Windows 7, there are benefits and boosts that Windows 8 will give, that they should be testing and aware of how to use them, so that they could slide up textures on Windows 8.

Heck, what about the 3D features of Windows 8 that is provided at the OS level instead of through NVidia/ATI implementations. Or the shove to use SMP GPU configurations with OS level management of the GPUs instead of Crossfire/SLI?

There is a lot of 'curiosity' he should have and it amazes me that anyone would 'choose' to remain ignorant of technology that affects them.

How about Carmack and Gabe worry more about putting out a decent game and less time whining about Windows 8. What has gabe done since HL2?? and whens the last time carmack did anything useful?? Doom 3 sucked and Rage was a joke.

Colin McGregor said,
How about Carmack and Gabe worry more about putting out a decent game and less time whining about Windows 8. What has gabe done since HL2?? and whens the last time carmack did anything useful?? Doom 3 sucked and Rage was a joke.

why do you think he was on stage for hours ?
someone upset their precious win 8 got bashed ?

I am Not PCyr said,

why do you think he was on stage for hours ?
someone upset their precious win 8 got bashed ?

ya he sat and talked. Anyone can talk. The fact for the last 10 or more yrs ID has been an absolute joke didn't get fixed by him running his mouth.

Colin McGregor said,
What has gabe done since HL2?? and whens the last time carmack did anything useful??
They've been collecting ponies xD

Colin McGregor said,

ya he sat and talked. Anyone can talk. The fact for the last 10 or more yrs ID has been an absolute joke didn't get fixed by him running his mouth.

alright i'll bite..
You think Carmac has employees to make games or does he do it all alone ?
Yeah thats what i think ..k thx bye

Anthonyd said,
Lol at the news title trying to bring more drama, lame.

Carmack said he wished Windows 8 didn't exist.

so....

get clickin' like on that

Although I think there are some things that Carmack would like about Windows 8, I like how he worded his response. He doesn't seem to have a personal vendetta against Windows 8, but for him, he isn't really looking forward to it. He's not flat out saying it will be terrible, or that it's bad for the industry, just that he loves Windows 7 a lot and tends to stick to things that he likes for a while (like how he says he stuck to windows xp "to the bitter end".

Unfortunately, it seems like the press is going to take his response in a different light, and make it seem like he hates the product.

Omen1393 said,
Although I think there are some things that Carmack would like about Windows 8, I like how he worded his response. He doesn't seem to have a personal vendetta against Windows 8, but for him, he isn't really looking forward to it. He's not flat out saying it will be terrible, or that it's bad for the industry, just that he loves Windows 7 a lot and tends to stick to things that he likes for a while (like how he says he stuck to windows xp "to the bitter end".

Unfortunately, it seems like the press is going to take his response in a different light, and make it seem like he hates the product.

Yeah, I like how that is posted, but not this:

http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/201...ux-is-still-not-viable.html

SikSlayer said,

Yeah, I like how that is posted, but not this:

http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/201...ux-is-still-not-viable.html

id never put the kind of resources into Linux that are needed. Not on the level of Valve anyway. They often released a Linux client 6 months down the line, which needed the data files from a Windows game disc. That's pretty lacklustre.

I think now is a good time for gaming to really take off on Linux. More and more PC's are shipping with Ubuntu and other distros, and the list of big name supporters is going daily.

simplezz said,

I think now is a good time for gaming to really take off on Linux.

First Linux itself needs to take off, and that has never happened no matter how hopeful all of your posts are.

Omen1393 said,
Although I think there are some things that Carmack would like about Windows 8, I like how he worded his response. He doesn't seem to have a personal vendetta against Windows 8, but for him, he isn't really looking forward to it. He's not flat out saying it will be terrible, or that it's bad for the industry, just that he loves Windows 7 a lot and tends to stick to things that he likes for a while (like how he says he stuck to windows xp "to the bitter end".

Unfortunately, it seems like the press is going to take his response in a different light, and make it seem like he hates the product.

"he would be happy if Windows 8 didn't actually exist" I would say that this is pretty antagonistic.

I just wish MS would make a product that wasn't a hate magnet because it has the name Windows. I can't imagine why everyone is so negative. Maybe MS having their own app store is disruptive but they are the last one to the party and it isn't a mandate for the gaming industry. Games in general wouldn't be based on the RT part of Win8. It runs using less resources than before. When you start a game it goes full screen. You don't even see Metro.

Also remember this guy's latest work is a rerelease of a 10 year old game and before that it was Rage which sucked. I don't necessarily hold him in that high a regard when I look at his recent work.

simplezz said,
I think now is a good time for gaming to really take off on Linux. More and more PC's are shipping with Ubuntu and other distros, and the list of big name supporters is going daily.

Haven't noticed any increase in the presence of Linux on sold consumer PCs. Quite the opposite, during Vista there were more (failed) attempts. And "now is a good time" gets repeated every two years by the Linux crowd. Good luck, maybe someday you'll be right and Windows won't sell 700mio in three years anymore.

blackjezuz said,
"he would be happy if Windows 8 didn't actually exist" I would say that this is pretty antagonistic.

If you watch the whole part you'll see that he doesn't mean he would be happier without W8, he just doesn't need it and was perfectly fine even with XP for a long time. He talks a lot about diminishing returns and "good enough" in general, Windows was only a tiny, tiny bit of the speech after someone asked him about it. Pulling this quote out of context could be called bad journalism by the author but I don't want to offend real journalists...

And after watching the whole four hours I hold Carmack in the highest regard possible, he's one of the smartest and interesting guys around in the gaming/tech industry. Doesn't matter one bit that his latest games weren't so great. Reading a few sentences really does not do him justice.

simplezz said,

id never put the kind of resources into Linux that are needed. Not on the level of Valve anyway. They often released a Linux client 6 months down the line, which needed the data files from a Windows game disc. That's pretty lacklustre.

I think now is a good time for gaming to really take off on Linux. More and more PC's are shipping with Ubuntu and other distros, and the list of big name supporters is going daily.


Last I checked, less and less PCs were shipping with Ubuntu and other distros. It had an uprising in the Vista days, but ever since 7 came out, I never saw a average-user retailer shipping linux PCs.

simplezz said,

id never put the kind of resources into Linux that are needed. Not on the level of Valve anyway. They often released a Linux client 6 months down the line, which needed the data files from a Windows game disc. That's pretty lacklustre.

I think now is a good time for gaming to really take off on Linux. More and more PC's are shipping with Ubuntu and other distros, and the list of big name supporters is going daily.

If you think Valve or anyone else is going to save Linux gaming, you are stuck in the 1990s when this was going to happen, year after year after year.

Even Id and other developers championing OpenGL over DirectX (at their own peril at times) were never able to get Linux to a state of being a consuming gaming OS.

The Linux kernel just DOES NOT have the ability to handle the driver technology or the threads fast enough to compete with NT. These are hard kernel and OS model facts, that Linux would have to become no longer Linux to be rebuilt to handling gaming.

It is just like the Mach/BSD (XNU) kernel in OS X, it just can't get there from here. (The original Mach designers will tell you this, and how and why if you listen, especially the one that works at Microsoft and thinks Apple keeping Mach alive is silly.)

NVidia and AMD/ATI have had to bypass and reconstruct OS layers to get drivers to even get close to the performance of Windows NT.

It is in these support layers where they are bypassing Linux, and some even infringe on Microsoft Patents. Linux itself does not have the kernel level abilities to handle low level 3D GPU operations, it was never designed to do this.


Valve can compare 8 year old DX9c to a modern OpenGL and call OpenGL the winner, and they can fudge any technical detail they want to make Linux look good for their games/engine.

They however, cannot get Linux to performance as well as NT, unless they skew the data. The ONLY way to create a Linux gaming platform is to take the NVidia or ATI wrapper technologies, and shove them into a locked set of hardware with truly optimized and specifically compiled Linux kernel and drivers for the VERY specific hardware set. (As the PS3 did with FreeBSD.)
** But then it is essentially not Linux based gaming, but a specific hardware gaming 'console' or Apple closed type product.

The reason is they would need to lock the hardware as they could no longer use driver abstraction generics or compatibility shims, and would need to be as lean as possible. (Which is seldom EVER done with a Linux distribution and also isn't common in Linux ports beyond x86, as they are seldom optimized to the architecture.)
**This is why Windows NT is more portable than Linux, as moving to different architectures does not require the massive code revamps to target the new architecture. NT uses essentially same NT code, targeting its own architecture simulation that the HAL provide at very high speed on various hardware platforms.


The other thing people keep forgetting, is Microsoft is the father of modern GPU design and modern gaming graphics.

The GPUs people are using are Microsoft reference designs. The shader language OpenGL uses, NVidia uses is Microsoft's creation, and even the features of OpenGL 4.x all come from Microsoft DirectX development technologies.

OpenCL (*note CL) nor CUDA 2.0 couldn't do what they do with GPUs if it wasn't for the Microsoft GPU design technologies.

Think even WP7, 1/5th to 1/10th the GPU technology, and not only in UI, but even gaming pixel fillrate, and triangle per second it beats Android and iOS devies with 5 to 10 times the GPU hardware. This is due to two things, the video driver technology and DirectX. (The thing Valve says is slower in their lab.)


If anyone thinks Microsoft is going to sit back and be eclipsed by other technologies, they are sadly not remembering who created the gaming technologies ALL these companies are using. Microsoft also has a new generation of graphics and gaming coming in Windows 9 / XBox 360 replacement era. That will once again shift the industry to a new direction, just like the XBox 360's GPU is the basis of every GPU made today.

Valve, Id, Blizzard, all are using tons of Microsoft technologies, even if they are only creating a Linux game with OpenGL, it is using Microsoft technology, let alone the GPU is based on a Microsoft design.

So unless you are looking forward to an Apple like company producing a Linux type Box for gaming, good luck on your Linux gaming dreams.

Valve, iD, and another PC Game developer said they hate the Windows 8... (can't remember exactly which was the 3rd one)... mostly sure Windows 8 won't be too popular, but will build the way for W9.

SubZenit said,
Valve, iD, and another PC Game developer said they hate the Windows 8... (can't remember exactly which was the 3rd one)... mostly sure Windows 8 won't be too popular, but will build the way for W9.

Blizzard, I think.

SubZenit said,
Valve, iD, and another PC Game developer said they hate the Windows 8...

Carmack doesn't hate "the Windows 8", please listen to what he really said and meant. The headline of the article is very misleading.

SubZenit said,
Valve, iD, and another PC Game developer said they hate the Windows 8... (can't remember exactly which was the 3rd one)... mostly sure Windows 8 won't be too popular, but will build the way for W9.

Carmack doesn't hate windows 8. It is just something new that he doesn't think is needed that they need to learn and program for.

dr_crabman said,

Carmack doesn't hate "the Windows 8", please listen to what he really said and meant. The headline of the article is very misleading.

he said,


he would be happy if Windows 8 didn't actually exist

how is that suppose to be interpreted ?
Are we suppose to read something else into that ?

And another complaint was from the Dev for Minecraft.

S00N3R FR3AK said,

Carmack doesn't hate windows 8. It is just something new that he doesn't think is needed that they need to learn and program for.

This is the definition of ignorance. Choosing to remain 'uninformed' or 'ignorant' of something.

So we should trust the viewpoints of person that is telling you they are choosing to be ignorant and really DO NOT know about a technology like Windows 8?

Purposely avoiding information is the person's responsibility, it is no longer an assessment of intelligence, but a choice to remain ignorant.

If you choose to listen or follow someone that demonstrates they are ignorant, you are choosing ignorance as well.


Graphics and OS graphical technology is this man's life and he has no curiosity to be using it? Really?

This still really amazes me...

Some people are driven by curiosity and some are not, this is just how people are depending on the subject, and their role/path in the world, blah blah.

It is odd when the curiosity is in the scope of the person's work and they also offer opinion on the subject, while having not invested any acquisition of information on the subject.

He is flat telling people he and his team is NOT using Windows 8, developing for it, or have any understanding of it. Yet people are going to listen to him? Why?

For example: I have no curiosity about the latest Fashions being released in France this year, and my business doesn't depend on it, and I also don't offer opinion, speculation, or technical advice on the latest Fashions. I am ignorant of Fashion, thus anyone that would listen to me on Fashion is a fool.

Anyone that listens to John from Id on Windows 8 is also a fool.

Omen1393 said,

and SOE.

And exactly *how* has SOE criticized Windows 8 (other than it makes the PS3 look bad, even on their own titles that they publish)?

In fact, take DC Universe Online (which SOE publishes). It's a dual-platform (PS3 and PC) title. It's also one of the large number of MMOs that converted to F2P over the past year. DCUO has a large number of dual-platform players - those that play on both PC and PS3. Oddly enough, among just the dual-platform players, it's the PS3 side that is the most horked off with SOE, because the PC graphics FAR outstrip those of the PS3. It's actually gotten to the point that this same company (SOE) is preparing to launch a PC-exclusive (and free-to-play, no less) sequel to existing traditional MMO Planetside (called, fittingly, Planetside 2). You might mean SCEA (the console/PS3 side of Sony) is horked off with Windows 8; that is actually understandable - if anything, they are just as horked off with Windows 7. What the issue could very well be (in Windows 8's case) is that it puts the PS3 in an even deeper hole compared to Windows 7.

Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

That would be the day Id drop OpenGL and adopted Direct3D, which ain't going to happen

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

It's marketing - every Windows OS screams better gaming results, but some of it is just marketing and not realistic.

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

Considering most games are designed for the console and XP and consequently use DX9c I doubt we'll see much in the way of improvement anyway. Besides, with the improvements come more demands on hardware. In all honesty, I'd prefer better quality textures than some new fangled shader effect or tessellation.

simplezz said,
Considering most games are designed for the console and XP and consequently use DX9c I doubt we'll see much in the way of improvement anyway.

Well the 360 was released in what, 2005?.. when DirectX 9 was still up front, hopefully you don't think their next console is still going to be using it? And as far as the desktop goes, of course newer APIs will bring newer demands on hardware.. if that weren't true I'd still be using my dual 3DFX cards. And even ignoring all that... most games let you toggle if you want to use the older or newer API. Some of us might be happy with the same old from years ago.. some of us however would prefer to see improvements.

simplezz said,

Considering most games are designed for the console and XP and consequently use DX9c I doubt we'll see much in the way of improvement anyway. Besides, with the improvements come more demands on hardware. In all honesty, I'd prefer better quality textures than some new fangled shader effect or tessellation.

Most games designed for DX9c, are you serious?

Every game I've bought in the past year or more has had DX10 or 11 features. What on earth are you blabbering about? Batman Arkham City, Civ V, to name but a couple.

TCLN Ryster said,
Every game I've bought in the past year or more has had DX10 or 11 features. What on earth are you blabbering about? Batman Arkham City, Civ V, to name but a couple.

One of the most played FPS (Battlefield 3) is DX10/11 only and the last Steam survey showed that an overwhelming share of it's users (over 75%) have moved to Win7/Vista and modern hardware. Designed for XP? Not anymore.

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

What improvements ?
And what does that have to do with large volume of negative aspects of windows 8 ?
Windows 8 wasn't required to have that, could have been done regardless
on 7, 8 or 9 etc

PC gaming is pretty well dead so that doesn't make much difference anyway.
Cookie cutter crap with boring game play and marginally improved graphics.
rinse and repeat..
SOOOO tired of RPG's and Strategy's and Future war games
and Sci Fy or Zombie shooters ..we don't need one released every hour,
or wait i guess we do because people keep buying them.

I'd rather shut off my computer than download 99.9% of any pc games these days.
And years ago i use download lots of games and burn them and times were great, I have an old box full of probably a 1,000 cd's mostly pc iso's burned.
Gradualy over time i downloaded less and less and now i don't care at all !
PC AND Console gaming is crap.

And any chance on getting some technical details on these graphical enhancements i keep hearing about posted as defense for Windows 8 in the comments here ? Saying that over and over is tad vague..

Also since i'm bashing PC gaming i want to add i loved Doom3
it was a lot of fun

I am Not PCyr said,
PC gaming is pretty well dead so that doesn't make much difference anyway.

Says who?
I am Not PCyr said,
PC AND Console gaming is crap.

Whats left, Angry Birds and Scrabble? Pass.
I am Not PCyr said,
Cookie cutter grap with boring game play and marginaly improved graphics.

This I can agree with somewhat... but that's the game developer at fault, not Microsoft.
I am Not PCyr said,
And any chance on getting some technical details on these graphical enhancements i keep hearing about posted as defense for Windows 8 in the comments here ? Saying that over and over is tad vague..

It's over on MSDN... this is just Direct3D, if you put a few seconds into looking you'll find improvements in the other APIs as well.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u.../hh404562%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Jaybonaut said,

It's marketing - every Windows OS screams better gaming results, but some of it is just marketing and not realistic.

They exist, Developers have to use them. Take DirectX10, there was not a single game released that had a full DX10 graphical engine. There were DX10 effects extensions on top of DX9 games, but nothing was pure DX10.

This has changed a bit with DX11, as it has cross platform parity with the XBox 360. (Thank NVidia for DX10 not being as rich as the 2005 XBox)

Even with DX11, there are few games that are fully DX11 to the core and take advantage of the lower overhead or faster features.

The reason? People are still using XP, and the Video driver model of XP can't do what what DirectX depends on the OS handling.

As game developers like Id get their head out of their arses and XP thinking, they will move forward to newer features. They also have the nasty OpenGL thing that has crippled them.

OpenGL 4.x is finally catching up to DX11 in features and functionality, but there were almost 7 full years where OpenGL was a generation behind DirectX, and while developers were trying to keep cross platform parity and maintain OpenGL versions even with dedicated DirectX versions, the DirectX versions they were producing were limited to the OpenGL features at the time, meaning that everything was built for DX9.

Look at Valve, their 'test' is still based on DX9c, which is what 8 or 9 years old?

Now that OpenGL 4.2 shows promise with features and stability that can allow cross platform developers the ability to build games with newer features and have DirectX11 versions that are not limited to the lack of features in older OpenGL, things will get better.

The other Elephant in the room is console gaming, and that elephant is the PS3. It is locked to older OpenGL essentially DX9c era gaming due to the GPU limitations. So if the developer is going to target the PS3, the games are still going to be crap and not use new technology, optimizations or features of OpenGL 4.x or DX11.

As for Windows 8, gaming is faster due to adjustments in the WDM v1.2 of the Video model that offers a lot of features at the OS level. (Smoother Preemptive GPU usage, better VRAM sharing technology, etc.)

**Which makes the Valve comments even more insane as Windows 7 and Windows 8 are the ONLY OSes in the world that can do these things, Linux and OS X cannot do them, and without a reconstruction of their kernels and drivers and even changes in the OS model, will NEVER be able to do.


Windows 8 also bring Software DX fallback and assistance, which is why Intel HD 4000, and even 3000 series chipsets get a nice boost for gaming and can actually run games they can't handle on other OSes.


The other thing Windows 8 is bringing is new 3D API sets and better multi-monitor management and inherent remote gaming 'cloud' features if a developer chooses to use them, without having to use 'video' like OnLive does.


John of Id is not an idiot, but if they have NOT been testing and working with Windows 8 yet, why? This shows a lack of curiosity and a lack of knowledge on the OS technology in general. If they had been working with DX11.1 or the new video model in Windows 8, they would see that even OpenGL games get a boost with the new WDM 1.2 GPU schedulers technologies.

I find it strange that a game graphic developer would not be trying out and testing the latest OS technologies, from EVERYONE, let alone ignoring Windows which they depend on.

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

Yes, please do tell us about those. You know, the ones Vista or 7 doesn't have? Oh wait...

@
Max Norris -> FAIL !

dx11.1 does mean windows 8 comes with dramatic performance improvements
and i guess by that i'm suppose to wager Win7 won't get an DX update ?
So if windows 7 gets dx11.1 than your argument and everyone else saying that are full of **** !

And your reply ? Where's the benchmarks ?
By the claims made by fanboys i expect some hefty improvements too
not 1 or 2 fps on select games etc..

And pc gaming is crap and so is Angry Birds and Scrabble..
I feel sorry for the legion of morons buying all these new games that come.
they are garbage !
Be more entertaining cracking them than playing them.

Cheerleaders spare us the bull
if you can't provide facts to back up your the mouth than zip it !

McKay said,
Nothing in Windows 8 he's looking forward to? How about the inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?

"inevitable Graphical improvements for gaming?" If you are a normal gamer, there is not a single improvement you gonna enjoy. MS didn't do anything for gamers.

DX 11.1 is completely irrelevant to games, and also, if you want to run it, you need at least AMD 7000 series card or Nvidia 600 series. Otherwise, you're stuck with DX11 which ain't bad at all. It's the same with Win 7.

If you don't care being marketing victim, at least do not spread BS, since, you're certainly clueless and you know this.

Tyler R. said,
Aww...I want Doom 4!!!

I hope it doesn't suck like Rage did. That game was crap. Looked great but no fun at all. Bad gameplay. He's big into VR too which I can't imagine not sucking. I think the ID bubble popped.

blackjezuz said,

I hope it doesn't suck like Rage did. That game was crap. Looked great but no fun at all. Bad gameplay. He's big into VR too which I can't imagine not sucking. I think the ID bubble popped.

I thought Rage was just fine, man. Other than the renderer issues it was fine :\

ensiform said,

I thought Rage was just fine, man. Other than the renderer issues it was fine :\

I'm downloading Rage now on Steam. 20 gigs for a game is pretty hefty. I hope it is worth it.

blackjezuz said,

I hope it doesn't suck like Rage did. That game was crap. Looked great but no fun at all. Bad gameplay. He's big into VR too which I can't imagine not sucking. I think the ID bubble popped.

Did you watch the keynote? He apologized for some of the big negatives, like the ending, and most of all said how inexcusable the pc version was. As for the VR don't knock it till you try it. The line at quakecon was almost an hour long and it was amazing. It is the future of gaming. But also don't forget it is a side project and he isn't making a game around it, just making sure it can work with the headset.

Tyler R. said,
I'm downloading Rage now on Steam. 20 gigs for a game is pretty hefty. I hope it is worth it.

If you bought it for cheap, like the overall style and don't expect something revolutionary I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a comptetent shooter with some boring sections (I liked the driving around while I can see why some don't) but there's nothing in it that's outright bad imo.

Tyler R. said,

I'm downloading Rage now on Steam. 20 gigs for a game is pretty hefty. I hope it is worth it.


Me too just finished downloading.

dr_crabman said,

If you bought it for cheap, like the overall style and don't expect something revolutionary I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a comptetent shooter with some boring sections (I liked the driving around while I can see why some don't) but there's nothing in it that's outright bad imo.

Yeah. I think I got it for 4 dollars during the Steam Summer Sale. No problems, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

TechJunkie81 said,
I can see his problems. When Microsoft dumped entirely the x86 Desktop version of Windows,,,oh what that hasn't happened.

There you go being smarter than the rest of the game developers... just stop it now ok? They have spoken.

MrHumpty said,

There you go being smarter than the rest of the game developers... just stop it now ok? They have spoken.

My bad. I'll get on my hands and knees and apologize a thousand times.

TechJunkie81 said,
I can see his problems. When Microsoft dumped entirely the x86 Desktop version of Windows,,,oh what that hasn't happened.

i don't get it what are you talking about ?
Did John bash x64 cpu's or something ?
19 people clicked like ? LOL

MrHumpty said,

There you go being smarter than the rest of the game developers... just stop it now ok? They have spoken.

They see a catchy title, and already think they're smarter, while they don't have a clue about what is going on and the specific background. To any serious dude, these comments would just seem funny.

"I can see his problems" -Sure, yeah, I could tell you what you can see, but anyway.

*waiting for the* John is stuck in the past, john can't move forwards.... comments.

Edited by warwagon, Aug 4 2012, 7:44pm :

warwagon said,
*waiting for the* John is stuck in the past, john can't move forwards.... comments.

You have a script created which searches the keyword "windows 8" and and then automatically posts a windows 8 hate comment?

I SO agree with John's statement. The OS I really want is Windows 7 with all of Windows 8's (big) under-the-hood improvements and an option for the new explorer windows.

And in case anyone doesn't know, John Carmack is a 1337 genius - look it up.

-=SEDIN=- said,

You have a script created which searches the keyword "windows 8" and and then automatically posts a windows 8 hate comment?

It's warwagon, comments like that are par for the course.

a1ien said,
I SO agree with John's statement. The OS I really want is Windows 7 with all of Windows 8's (big) under-the-hood improvements and an option for the new explorer windows.

That's exactly what I wanted as well. Windows 8 boots faster, performs daily tasks faster, and shuts down faster. Too bad I have to deal with the hacked-together desktop theme and the start screen (which I'm fine with except for the fact that it doesn't search ALL by default and doesn't provide an option to load the desktop on boot).

-=SEDIN=- said,

You have a script created which searches the keyword "windows 8" and and then automatically posts a windows 8 hate comment?

1) why would I need a script when ever other story on the front page is about Windows 8?
2) I didn't knock windows 8 in my 1st comment, I just said I was waiting for a pro user to come in and say something that almost every "Pro" Windows 8 user says.

BoneyardBrew said,

That's exactly what I wanted as well. Windows 8 boots faster, performs daily tasks faster, and shuts down faster. Too bad I have to deal with the hacked-together desktop theme and the start screen (which I'm fine with except for the fact that it doesn't search ALL by default and doesn't provide an option to load the desktop on boot).

This.... THESE are my problems with Windows 8. This ridiculous modality of having to manage 2 different desktops and then this search that is supposed to be faster is actually a bit slower because you have to choose by category. Also, you have a browser open in the metro interface? Yeah, that doesn't tie in with the desktop browser. I'm not going to call it a MESS, but the actual design could have used some more thought.

I still dual boot it though. It might get better over time, but it will stay secondary as a play-thing until then.

I was agreeing with John until "id worked on Windows XP until the bitter end". WTF?

The world is bigger than just a few old school game studios. I'm fine with letting the pass stays behind...including Doom.

warwagon said,
*waiting for the* John is stuck in the past, john can't move forwards.... comments.

I've loved id for too long. They've not produced anything amazing since Q3A and Carmack, while he was a revolutionary 10 years ago is turning a waste of news space.

A doom ever 10 years. Can't fix Rampage because they're working so hard on Doom. iOS was the best platform ever for gaming... now all iOS dev is on indefinite hold.

Time to find a new idle... this guys turning out to be worthless.

[quote=a1ien said,]I SO agree with John's statement. The OS I really want is Windows 7 with all of Windows 8's (big) under-the-hood improvements and an option for the new explorer windows.

That's easy, Use Windows 8. I don't see a huge difference in how I do thing with Windows 8 and I get the extra speed.

TCLN Ryster said,

It's warwagon, comments like that are par for the course.

actually yours are...
right on schedule and as usual you contributed nothing here but a snarky remark.
4th comment down again lol

i should go collect them up and show you

BoneyardBrew said,

provide an option to load the desktop on boot).

There's no strong reason why you need to load the desktop om boot unless you stare at your Desktop Wallpaper all day. You obviously launch apps to do something, and I doubt most people have all their apps such as the browser, word, etc auto launch at start up.

When you first boot into Windows 8 at the Metro Start Screen, you see all the apps that are installed on your computer (along with Live tiles which can provide you information if you want them there), you click the app that you are going to launch---it doesn't matter if it's a Win32 or Metro app. Once you click a Win32 app, you are back in the Desktop environment with the Win32 app open. Nothing has changed from Windows 7 in that respect.

BoneyardBrew said,

That's Start8, the program by Stardock if I'm not mistaken.

I saw the option in some RTM leaked screenshots.

JOHW said,

There's no strong reason why you need to load the desktop om boot unless you stare at your Desktop Wallpaper all day. You obviously launch apps to do something, and I doubt most people have all their apps such as the browser, word, etc auto launch at start up.

When you first boot into Windows 8 at the Metro Start Screen, you see all the apps that are installed on your computer (along with Live tiles which can provide you information if you want them there), you click the app that you are going to launch---it doesn't matter if it's a Win32 or Metro app. Once you click a Win32 app, you are back in the Desktop environment with the Win32 app open. Nothing has changed from Windows 7 in that respect.

Perhaps there's no strong reason, but I'd still prefer to launch my one of maybe 3 most-used applications through the ctrl + # shortcut on the taskbar. That aside, the other reasons I listed are more important than this to me personally. The theme can be corrected in time once a patch is released, so that really only leaves the searching method.

-=SEDIN=- said,

You have a script created which searches the keyword "windows 8" and and then automatically posts a windows 8 hate comment?

What Windows 8 hate comment....?