IE's market share falls below 60%, Firefox surpasses 30%

With Firefox 3.5 being recently released, and hitting five million downloads in 24 hours, Firefox appears to be gaining more market share, and Internet Explorer's market share is slipping according to Favbrowser, and a graph by statcounter shown below.

Internet Explorer fell from 62.09% to 59.49%, while Firefox rose from 28.75% to 30.33%. But Firefox isn't the only browser that's gaining market share. Opera, recently released the beta version of version 10 of its browser, rose from 3.23% to 3.36%, Safari, recently released version 4 of its browser and hitting 11 million downloads in three days, rose from 2.65% to 2.93%, and Chrome rose from 2.42% to 2.82%.

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Firefox rules.. nothing compares.. I hope Opera runs out of business..., Microsoft - kill IE and make something new.. like you did with the search engine.., IE has to go. Chromes ok, but FF is still better.. safari is eye candy.. thats all..

I use Firefox most times, Google Chrome a good bit to. However since using Windows 7 RC I've found myself pulled to IE8. But hey choice ain't bad at all!

I will go back to firefox when they remove that stupid problem where upgrading from X.0.0.0 to X.0.0.1 kills all my addons and themes.

IE8 - No Easy Adblock Solution STILL; Couldn't render transparent PNGs recently; Not Secure.
Safari (Windows) - Fast; No Add-on Support; No Customization (try disabling Disk Caching!).
Firefox - Fast; Lots of very useful addons; Massive Level of Customization.
Chrome - Idiot Magnet.
Opera - Do I even need to say anything?

What ****es me off though is that some 3rd party optimized builds (I am not talking about the ones that were just compiled with CPU optimizations) of Firefox are Linux only...

A second advantage of Firefox is almost any webpage runs fine using firefox (with the exception of some weird activex pages).

ZOMG I'm too stupid to understand facts so I'm going to make a post about Opera whining to the EU lolz!

W00t, back in 2002 I thought this was impossible the internet is full of so many un tech savey noobs, I think now it's so common non tech savey will get it or encouraged to get it or will have it installed on their PC when ever someone who is tech savey uses their comp, and as it become more mainstream it spreads further, so FF pwed IE.

The plus point for Firefox is that it has big backing of community due to maximum customization flexibility with the use of add-ons from the beginning. And that functionality is great to a such an extent that Firefox is capable of imitating the features of any browser. Recently I checked that the Safari 4 has cool effects for browsing thru the bookmarks. And that kind of feature is partially available in firefox but not for bookmarks but for the currently opened tabs. (Addon: FoxTab). Secondly one more plus point is of Greasemonkey as their are many useful scripts for different websites/browser games. So, for even that purpose some people use firefox and then they stick to it.

Well its good IE share is dropping cause IE ****ing sucks..

They should switch engine asap, goto webkit and optimize it like google and apple does.

Once the 'usual' tuning of Firefox has been made as below, its lightning fast, more so if you have uninstalled any prior version properly :)

...which can lead to websites stopping loading in the middle, never finishing loading, getting you banned from web-servers and other sundry randomness. If you make these changes and then get weirdness on some sites it's not firefox's fault!

Just leave all the options at default and set .pipelining and proxy.pipelining to true. In fact, I can tell you don't even research your settings in Mozilla's Knowledgebase, because if you have, you would have read that the .pipelining setting, set to true, overrides the .pipelining.ssl setting.

Can anyone explain to me how downloading something equals market share? What if I downloaded Firefox yesterday, and decided it was a piece of crap? (which I don't, so calm down) Does this chart factor in the number of people who downloaded the software, then decided to go back to something they already had?

I don't see any other method of determining market share. It's like buying a product. You may not use it, but you still bought it.

briango said,
Can anyone explain to me how downloading something equals market share? What if I downloaded Firefox yesterday, and decided it was a piece of crap? (which I don't, so calm down) Does this chart factor in the number of people who downloaded the software, then decided to go back to something they already had?


They don't even track downloads from the same IP. There are Firefox fanboys out there that download hundreds if not thousands to manipulate the results, and there are hundreds if not thousands doing this. Then you need to factor in the bots.... There will NOT be any significant change if NEW Firefox usage. It's like Apple losing a significant market share after Windows 7 is released. It's just not going to happen. In the end the ONLY measurable lose will be to Opera and Chrome, and they will eventually regain any lose they suffered.

All you lot whinging about IE8 features and lack off etc, try the wonderfull addon IE7Pro, which also works on IE8

Firefox has a long way to go in terms of innovation. But it is impressive to see a product enter a saturated marketaplce with a very dominant player and climb this high in marketshare.

The most mind-boggling part is that, despite Opera's childish whining, it's clear that competitors can enter the browser market and take Microsoft down to this level. And they managed to do it without lawsuits or complaining. All they did was get their product out there and offer it as a choice to others.

As always, word of mouth remains the most powerful advertising. That's how Mozilla got to this point and Opera could see this sort of success, too, but they need to direct their efforts towards innovation and away from scapegoating Microsoft.

Really I am not in favor of Open Source softwares at all but if there is only one open source software I adore, it is Firefox. It is simply amazing. Its fast and compatible with most of websites unlike some other browsers except IE. downloading is not a pain as in IE. Plugins are great, Grabbing media and youtube clips by DownloadHelper plugin... Its just great

So this makes me wonder, if IE would drop under 50% does that mean Opera's/the EU's whining will have no relevance anymore as it would be fair to say IE's monopoly would be history?
Ok, I confess, that's actually a rhetorical question.

I wish people didn't diss IE8 just because of previous versions of IE; it's actually really good, and on par with the other browsers.

I'm not dissing IE8 at all. It's just that I've used Firefox for so long, it's become like another appendage. I really see no reason to change from something that is, for me, perfect.

As I've said, I've used IE 8 a few times, and it is head and shoulders above any previous version in my opinion. If there were no Firefox any more, I'd use IE 8 over Opera, for sure.

Quikboy said,
it's actually really good

It's good for an IE browser.

and on par with the other browsers.

It's still less standards compliant, it's still slower to render, extensibility is limited, stability is hit or miss, Javascript is slowest of all the main browsers and the UI is a mess. So no, it's really not on par. And I'm honestly not a Firefox/Opera/Chrome fanboy or anything. I want IE to be as good as the rest as it means progress for the entire web and it will benefit both IE and non-IE users.

I've used IE since it was just an infant. Can't remember when (which version) but IE was pretty fast and efficient. But when I do web coding, I find that with IE browsers, you'd have to use a few tricks to get it do what other browser can do. One example is PNG file. You'd have to run a script to fix the alpha transparency. And the most headaches of all is the CSS.

justlooking said,
I just heard a news report about an IE fan in Charlotte who was brutally beaten by 12 pocket protector wielding FF fanboys.

I heard another news report on Neowin about how someone was trying to be funny at the expense of Firefox fanboys and failed miserably.

Haven't used IE in over 5 years. I've been using Firefox since version 0.8. I only used IE when necessary when I was
running XP. From Vista to Win 7, I can count the times I've used IE on one hand.

Perhaps there was a security reason initially. At least that was a selling point to use Firefox in the early days. But now,
being so use to Firefox, I can't see using any other browser, with the possible exception of the SeaMonkey Suite.

^^ guy above me has some good points.

IE8 was a big step in the wrong direction I think. IE7 + iepro was great... IE8 without that wonderful plugin just sucks. I'm going to uninstall it when I get home I think...

darkpuma said,
IE7 + iepro was great... IE8 without that wonderful plugin just sucks.

IE7 Pro has no reason to exist because the most of its features are now built-in IE8.

Here are a few things Microsoft needs to do to turn the tides with Internet Explorer:

1) Make a plugin system akin to FireFox's (one that allows for easy development, implementation, and addition...my god FireFox got it ridiculously right by adding in that ability to search and install add-ons from within the program itself)
1a) If you cant build in an add-on system then code the best add-ons for FireFox as new features on a regular basis...
e.g. Mouse gestures, adblocking, visualization modification, flash blocking, etc.
2) Change the way it handles proxies, change it in favor of FireFox's system.
3) Consult Maxthon development team. Maxthon opens faster than IE8 embedded in Windows 7...something is wrong with that.
4) Change the interface to resemble Office 2007...hell Maxthon 3.0 did it
5) Improve update schedule. I think people prefer something like FireFox's update schedule where you get security updates every so often (3.0.x.xxx) as opposed to Internet Explorer's or Opera's where updates are all major releases...1.0, 2.0, 3.0, etc...which come years apart. It is a good way to show people you are actively developing the product and interested in its future and not just insinuating that you think it is a good product and letting it "sink in". There is nothing wrong in admitting fault.
6) Remove WGA checks in upgrade installers. Who cares if it is being installed on illegitimate windows PC's? You are obviously more concerned with promoting Bing.com and your internet products, anyway.
7) Update Win7 and Win8 install packages so they default to Bing search engine (not Live Search)
8) Yes I know you as a company hate Apple, but you have to get back to developing IE for MacOS.
9) Develop IE for Linux. Again, you as Microsoft would rather promote use of Windows, but even you guys know your future is not tied to Windows' success...
10) Improve the mobile product. I think Opera has the best mobile browser, no?
11) Just fix the Acid test, not that hard. Not that I, tokar, actually give a sh*t about this test, but you will please all the dopes on the internet who do care.
12) Improve memory use. Gotta have at least one thing you can boast about over FireFox, right?
13) Make IE open XPS files faster, thanks.
14) Setup a quick way to turn off browsing sounds. I shouldn't have to go into the Windows Sound preferences to do this.
15) Integrate torrent downloading. Sure most educated people on the net use uTorrent or something similar, but you can at least attempt to capitalize on those idiots who dont know about standalone clients and have no clue what a .torrent file is.

I do think that suggestions like #4, #5 and #6 would really help Microsoft. There, however, would be no way they would be able to realistically implement #15 (too much negative press coverage). They have to be corporate friendly, this includes isolating themselves from anything that even has the potential to be used as a negative.

Given the number of request (and you are one of many), I am really beginning to think the best thing they could do would be exit the browser market all together. Their Trident engine really does not have a big following, outside of their core browser and could be done without. A secondary option would be to update to an engine like Webkit. However, given how many browsers use Web-kit why enter an already saturated market?

I think the best option would be to suspend browser production, go into a maintenance cycle for corporations that require it for compatibility and endorse another product.

The good news to many is that Microsoft will never do this. They will continue to develop IE... slowly. Their market share will slowly decline. By 2012 it will probably be less than 50%. They will further loose a lot of corporations as they transition to cloud computing, though many will no doubt keep Windows as the platform of choice to run a competing technology.

Tokar said,
1) Make a plugin system akin to FireFox's

IE already has a very good plugin system

Tokar said,
1a) e.g. Mouse gestures, adblocking, visualization modification, flash blocking, etc.

these features are already present in IE8 without using any additional plug-in

Tokar said,
3) Consult Maxthon development team. Maxthon opens faster than IE8 embedded in Windows 7...something is wrong with that.

my IE8 opens instanly. (snipped)

Tokar said,
6) Remove WGA checks in upgrade installers.

it's no longer present since years!

Tokar said,
9) Develop IE for Linux.

(snipped)

Tokar said,
13) Make IE open XPS files faster, thanks.

get a new PC

Tokar said,
14) Setup a quick way to turn off browsing sounds. I shouldn't have to go into the Windows Sound preferences to do this.

just use the new audio mixer comes with Vista

Tokar said,
15) Integrate torrent downloading.


(snipped)

Integrate...torrent? Opera's integrated torrent downloader is the single most irritating 'feature' over there, and I'm extremely thankful that IE doesn't have something similar. If it's Opera's feature that inspired your suggestion, check what you actually just said.

Noobs who can't figure out downloading their own torrent client WILL NEVER figure out changing Opera's settings for default torrent program. Opera's 'feature' is in NO way noob friendly. If anything, it locks novices out of alternative torrent clients moreso than Windows locks novices out of alternative browsers.

About your XPS suggestion, they've opted to open XPS documents in a separate viewer starting with Windows 7. You can get the exact same viewer in the XPS Essentials Pack for Vista/XP.

Joshie said,
Noobs who can't figure out downloading their own torrent client WILL NEVER figure out changing Opera's settings for default torrent program. Opera's 'feature' is in NO way noob friendly. If anything, it locks novices out of alternative torrent clients moreso than Windows locks novices out of alternative browsers.


In version 10 it now asks if you want to use your own program for handling torrents when you first click on a .torrent link. No more having to dig through opera:config to find the Disable option.

IE8 was such a big step up from IE7 yet not enough in context of the current competition (browser responsivenes, rendering speed, addons market and of course standards support). Microsoft has to realize this, yet sadly they aren't, otherwise we should have seen the IE9 beta by this time. Why can't MS get the standards issue done and over with once and for all in one big bang release is beyond me. That'll at least make naysayers who dunno anything yet who continue to babble about how IE is a joke to stop bashing IE8 like they bashed Vista without even trying it.

The media and community sites also play such an important role in people's choice of a browser. Merely passing Acid2 wasn't enough obviously to impress the media when the competition is so far ahead, fierce and cutting edge.

Why more people hate IE? Yes it's a browser no better than other but has the largest market share. Why hate it? Microsoft isn't forcing people to use it.

Firefox is the biggest overrated browser in history. There are browsers such as Opera and Chrome which are far more fully featured than Firefox is. Plus Firefox has to copy features from others to look better.

I used it several times in the past but IE8 is looking better now. It won't stay 30% for long.

PiracyX said,
Firefox is the biggest overrated browser in history. There are browsers such as Opera and Chrome which are far more fully featured than Firefox is. Plus Firefox has to copy features from others to look better.

I used it several times in the past but IE8 is looking better now. It won't stay 30% for long.


No, not really. Chrome is still in kiddy phase. It's fast, but that's really all it's got. It's still missing some basic features. Opera is better, but I dislike the UI. Still, feature rich. At least compared to Chrome.

Firefox all the way.

PiracyX said,
Firefox is the biggest overrated browser in history. There are browsers such as Opera and Chrome which are far more fully featured than Firefox is. Plus Firefox has to copy features from others to look better.

I used it several times in the past but IE8 is looking better now. It won't stay 30% for long.


[Overrated] No,that honor goes to chrome. i don't see the big deal about chrome, chrome has speed big deal. Chrome [Fully Featured] Sorry but not even close, Opera, Safari and IE 8 are more fully featured than chrome. chrome is still in the infant stage. [Copying Features] Don't try to pin all this on FF, all browsers copy features[And make the features better or improve it over the others] them from each other. Chrome [Just as Guilty] has taken features from Opera [Case in Point,Speed Dial].

30% won't stay long. we'll see about that, even if that's the case certainly IE won't reclaim it back. it would be because of chrome,safari and opera..

FTW, FF 3.5, Chrome[i don't use it],Safari and Opera...anything that chews
up IE's Market Share is a definitely good thing.

internet explorer doesnt have to die for the web to go forward,
in order for the "web" to go forward, people have to start thinking of new ideas for the internet

People are using IE because it is installed by default and they do know about FF. I bet if ppl will once test the FF then they will not return to IE anymore.
FF is far better than the IE. IE sucks. I hate IE.

It's all about preference. Some people enjoy using IE8. It's not really that bad of a browser, but I'm used to having a lot of options, something that I don't have with IE8.

bodmas said,
People are using IE because it is installed by default and they do know about FF. I bet if ppl will once test the FF then they will not return to IE anymore.
FF is far better than the IE. IE sucks. I hate IE.

i have seen some oem computer's having firefox installed as the default browser so meh

FF3.5 was blazing on the first day, then it starts to slow down exponentially as each day passes.... something's wrong....

switched back to IE8 as default... firefox will still be used for firebug though.

opera 10's quite good, fastest html rendering on any browser, javascript is rather decent, takes some time getting used to the interface.

i'm only using chrome for gmail and other g apps. Lack of RSS features is stopping it from being my browser of choice.

i thought safari 4 was cool, until it started crashing from my vigorous use of tabs. it's the ONLY app to crash in my Windows 7 RC....

What I like the most about the chart is that Chrome is slowly growing. Wonderful browser (even though Ive had some issues with Chrome, its still my favorite browser, but due to the kinks I've forced myself to use Firefox 3.5).

Comparing the browsers I've tried the past month, I gotta say.

When it comes to terms of speed I favor Chrome, also love Chrome's "Omnibar", something that ive used a great may times, Closely followed up by Safari 4 and Opera 10. And in terms of customization Firefox takes the grand price, no other browser is even close, The ammount of themes and extensions for Firefox is just staggering.
But unfortunately it comes with a cost, I have to admit that since Firefox 3.#, its just been very slow, starting up etc. Its very disappointing, the 2.# releases of Firefox was just wonderful, fast and responsive. but 3.# has just been a major disappointment that I hope the Mozilla Corp can fix. Sitting on a Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33 GHz, 4 GB of ram, XFX Radeon HD4850 XXX Edition 512MB, and Windows 7 x64, I dont see why Firefox should be so slow, was just as slow when I ran Vista x64. Both with and without extensions.

So my browser out of choice is Google Chrome or Safari 4. Opera 10 is close, but with its terms of customization choices Firefox stays there, but if it wasn't so customizable, it would have been crawling on the bottom together with Internet Explorer.

Seems it's an issue with some people's computers. 3.5 has been said to be slower on some computers, while extremely faster on others. I've installed it on at least 15 other computers and have yet to come across an issue like this. Everything from modern computers to old Dell D600s and those nasty $300 Compaqs.

I hope they can figure out what's causing it so that these people can also experience it.

Its very annoying, Ive always liked firefox, but ever since the Firefox 3 versions, its just gone downhill...but gonna stick to it for now, even though that its slow.

Found this:

What finally produced a dramatic increase in speed of loading was erasing (just about) everything from my UsersAppDataLocalTemp folder that Richard suggested. Then Firefox loaded in about two seconds. I had something like 15,000 files in that Temp folder.

Also seems suggested to go to your IE options and clear your cache/temp files there too. Hope that helps.

Hmmm ... I wonder how long it will take before IE takes up less than 50% of the browser market share? :P

Safari/Firefox user at this end, as I never liked IE. Too buggy and slow for my tastes.

ie will someday go down to 20% market share while these others will surpase it, wtg ms for screwing your browser and now your paying for it.

I miss FF version 1, Firfox 3+ is really slow starting and hangs all the time, and the most annoying thing is the updates! I couldn't remember the last time I used firefox since IE8 and Chrome were out.

Yes, because IE runs in protected mode on Vista, Firefox doesn't.
Don't belive all the hype... IE8 is actually the most secure browser, especially on Vista/7, believe it or not.

Open source sucks, period.

If it wasn't for Firefox, you really think IE would be where it's at today? I mean, it took Microsoft this long to actually play catch up to other browsers in the first place.

well I use Opera and only FF for certain things plus if I really want to run any of the browsers in a protected mode (sandbox) I will run them in Kaspersky's sandbox and use their cool virtual keyboard

JDonner said,
Open source sucks, period.


Bad generalization. If you had your way, over half of the Internet would be out of service.

It's actually only took MS uhh, 2 years to catch up to where it is today witn IE8. People make it sound like it's took longer but forget that IE was tied to Windows till IE7 started development, so IE was held up by all the Vista delays.

So going from IE7 to IE8 in actual development time is something like 3 years, give or take. And seeing how IE6 was, that's a big jump in a relativly short period of time.

JDonner said,
Yes, because IE runs in protected mode on Vista, Firefox doesn't.
Don't belive all the hype... IE8 is actually the most secure browser, especially on Vista/7, believe it or not.

Open source sucks, period.

God... You're such a close-minded MS fanboy...
Read some articles about open-source and why people bash MS to get a more centered vision please. I just read 2 of your comments and both are heavily biased.

My high school, which had macs, supported Firefox as the default browser. My university has IE and Firefox side-by-side, giving the user the choice.

Firefox is the default browser on my laptop, and all computers in my home network.

i'd like to see MS rebrand and redesign its browser, something with complete standards in mind... IE8 was a good foot forward but obviously not good enough... i use FF as my primary browser, IE8 is a great backup, no need to try any other browsers in the near future IMO

i trust MS and FF with my browsing over Google or Apple

same here... Switched to FF and puked on IE8 (no not cos of porn) cos they only push their standards. They don't really care about adopting the W3C standards. They seem to use this strategy of making their own standards for the world to follow so that other browsers break. I think they should rethink about their strategies.

Krome said,
same here... Switched to FF and puked on IE8 (no not cos of porn) cos they only push their standards. They don't really care about adopting the W3C standards. They seem to use this strategy of making their own standards for the world to follow so that other browsers break. I think they should rethink about their strategies.


So why pray tell, did they decide to follow W3C standards in regards to HTML4 and CSS2.1?

The IE teams strategy when it comes to W3C "standards" is to support them when they actually are a finalized standard and not in limbo draft mode like CSS3 which could still change later on. Other browsers handed lots of the Acid3 test differently from what I remember. When those thngs get locked by the W3C and won't change then MS will add them. It's what they did with CSS2.1 and HTML4. IE8 also supports some HTML5 as well iirc.

They'd rather not jump the gun and then have to go back and redo things if/when some "standard" changes.

Remember: no single stats company track all web usage. That'd be impossible.

All of them have error bounds, and are affected by their audience.

Neoauld said,
i doubt any of those are 100%
like opera at 0%, is kinda impossible that no one uses it, even though it should be that way


Sure, have it your way.

IE had always been a very reliable and stable part of my OS - That was until IE7 came with items that couldn't be customised or switched off easily such as the search box. When IE8 came along with even less control over where my toolbars where, well that was it for me. Firefox always seems that bit longer in loading compared to IE but whats made this long time IE users finally give in is the option to customise. I will always hold a soft spot for IE and if Microsoft decides to actually allow choice then I will be back but until then its Firefox.

CrazyK said,
IE had always been a very reliable and stable part of my OS - That was until IE7 came with items that couldn't be customised or switched off easily such as the search box. When IE8 came along with even less control over where my toolbars where, well that was it for me. Firefox always seems that bit longer in loading compared to IE but whats made this long time IE users finally give in is the option to customise. I will always hold a soft spot for IE and if Microsoft decides to actually allow choice then I will be back but until then its Firefox.

I can't believe you can actually stand toolbars, unless you're talking about the ones that are a part of IE.

CrazyK said,
When IE8 came along with even less control over where my toolbars where, well that was it for me.

Even less control? I find that surprising, since they specifically added back some customization. What do you mean?

He is not a geek type I guess so leave him. As far as I can say about IE is nothing there's nothing they have done much to improve upon from IE6 to IE8. You can only say that IE8/IE7 is secured as compared to earlier versions.

Competition is good, much better than it was back in 2000 and earlier. Ah nostalgia. It's very nice to be able to use different software all easily available, which forces companies to keep pace or jump ahead of their peers.

Mav Phoenix said,
Competition is good, much better than it was back in 2000 and earlier. Ah nostalgia. It's very nice to be able to use different software all easily available, which forces companies to keep pace or jump ahead of their peers.

Ding ding.

I really don't know why people bash IE. It has addons now, it has a built in adblock, and it is fast.

I'd like to see MS buy Mozilla.

What happens when FF has the market, will it stop inovating? Will MS then be allowed to bundle their IE with Windows again?

daniel_rh said,
People are used to it, even if they don't use IE anymore. Is like if there were frustrated for something

Which seems pretty reasonable. If some guy kept ringing my doorbell and throwing a water balloon at me I'd stop opening the door after a while, no matter how much he promised to stop throwing stuff at me.

People bash IE for the same reason why the bash Windows or Microsoft in general. In the mean time Google is bringing out more and more so called free software to spy on people more than ever before, just for the sake of advertising. Then the wake up one day what the heck happended to society and their privacy. They are clueless why Chrome was release, tjey just think that Google makes stuff for free just to please people. The real reason is that a search engine (Google) can't track what people are doing, once they click on a link and leave the Google search engine site, but now Chrome they CAN. People are so clueless...sigh

JDonner said,
People bash IE for the same reason why the bash Windows or Microsoft in general. In the mean time Google is bringing out more and more so called free software to spy on people more than ever before, just for the sake of advertising. Then the wake up one day what the heck happended to society and their privacy.

There's no difference between Microsoft and Google when it comes to privacy. MS was spying on users long before Google existed. So does every major software company. The difference I suppose is that Google is able to link that data to emails and searches to create a complete profile of a person or family. What they want this data for I don't know--I'm sure it has something to do with enslaving mankind.

toadeater said,
There's no difference between Microsoft and Google when it comes to privacy. MS was spying on users long before Google existed. So does every major software company. The difference I suppose is that Google is able to link that data to emails and searches to create a complete profile of a person or family. What they want this data for I don't know--I'm sure it has something to do with enslaving mankind. :)



Google also gives info to the Government. And not just our government. Also, there is a blind trust in Google, which makes it more scary.

MS does it in order to better their equipment, although you can opt out of it.

I don't mind tracking for advertisements all that much. I always thought the main reason we hated ads was because they were a distracting, intrusive waste of time. If ads could actually be tailored to markets we care about individually, it could potentially make them much less annoying, and make people more likely to click them, giving more revenue to the sites we care about enough to visit in the first place...

The reasoning seems pretty sound to me. If we want websites to be profitable without forcing subscription fees out of us, we have to tolerate some form of advertising. God forbid someone somewhere tries to come up with ads that work.

ff has basically already stopped innovating. since firefox 2. now it's mainly riding the add-ons people make for it, and playing catch up with innovations made in other browers. firefox was stagnant for ages before chrome came out and safari and ie updated and started making a scene. and even now ff 3.5 has hardly brought new innovations. mostly just catching-up to the other browsers plus bug fixes.

it's like as soon as it had a fairly comfortable market share (around 20%), the attitude of mozilla/firefox shifted to just maintaining and staying relevant, rather than pushing forward and innovating. which is the same thing microsoft did with ie years ago. just sat there content and lazy. i guess there's no motivation for improvement when you're just competing against yourself.

CL114C0777498D said,
ff has basically already stopped innovating. since firefox 2. now it's mainly riding the add-ons people make for it, and playing catch up with innovations made in other browers. firefox was stagnant for ages before chrome came out and safari and ie updated and started making a scene. and even now ff 3.5 has hardly brought new innovations. mostly just catching-up to the other browsers plus bug fixes.

it's like as soon as it had a fairly comfortable market share (around 20%), the attitude of mozilla/firefox shifted to just maintaining and staying relevant, rather than pushing forward and innovating. which is the same thing microsoft did with ie years ago. just sat there content and lazy. i guess there's no motivation for improvement when you're just competing against yourself.

Erm... prism? The most efficient memory manager of all the browsers? They are also working on technology so plugins can be updated without reloading. They are constantly innovating, unlike MS aka I copy everything from others. Your rant is complete BS; check your facts dude.

ccoltmanm said,
I really don't know why people bash IE. It has addons now, it has a built in adblock, and it is fast.

I'm bashing IE because while MS has finally made something that is vaguely competitive, FF, Webkit-based (Chrome, Safari), Opera, and others are still ahead of the curve when it comes to standards-compliance, speed, reliability and extensibility.

I mean, FF is starting to support many features of CSS3 and HTML5, and IE8 just finished supporting for CSS2, and just barely at that.

I develop websites for a living, and IE (even 8) still renders content differently than FF, Safari, Chrome, and Opera. It's much better now, but I'm longing for the days when I can make DIVs with rounded corners without resorting to javascript hacks, or use text-shadow and know it will be supported everywhere.

What ****es me off most, is that due to some businesses' reluctance to update their infrastructure, I actually still have to support IE6. That adds days onto my development time, and causes headaches to no end.

ccoltmanm said,
Google also gives info to the Government. And not just our government. Also, there is a blind trust in Google, which makes it more scary.

MS practically ran to the Pentagon to hand over search data, while Google resisted initially. They BOTH gave away their data, and so did Yahoo. None of these companies care about privacy. Spying on users makes them $$$ and earns them favors from the government.

MS does it in order to better their equipment, although you can opt out of it.

LOL. Right, targeted advertising has nothing to do with it...

liberatus_sum said,
They are also working on technology so plugins can be updated without reloading. They are constantly innovating, unlike MS aka I copy everything from others. Your rant is complete BS; check your facts dude.


Chrome already has extension loading without restarting support. (In the Dev branch)

Saying MS doesn't innovate at all is also BS. IE8 was first with it's multi-process per tab tech way before Chrome showed up as well. So some people also need to check their facts as well.

CL114C0777498D said,
ff has basically already stopped innovating. since firefox 2. now it's mainly riding the add-ons people make for it, and playing catch up with innovations made in other browers. firefox was stagnant for ages before chrome came out and safari and ie updated and started making a scene. and even now ff 3.5 has hardly brought new innovations. mostly just catching-up to the other browsers plus bug fixes.

it's like as soon as it had a fairly comfortable market share (around 20%), the attitude of mozilla/firefox shifted to just maintaining and staying relevant, rather than pushing forward and innovating. which is the same thing microsoft did with ie years ago. just sat there content and lazy. i guess there's no motivation for improvement when you're just competing against yourself.

I consider having the most advanced rendering engine (in terms of support for new standards ie. video tag with in-built video decoder) as a pretty big feature. It's the feature that enables all other features.

Also, what's wrong with creating a framework that is very conducive to extensions then banking on that? Why is it more innovative to spend your time coming up with 4 or 5 first party features than it is to build a framework that enables thousands of third party features? Personally, I think creating an extension for rich frameworks is more innovative because any first party feature the other browsers add is probably already in Firefox via some extension (for example, IE8 accelerator functionality already existed via plugins and there where already multiple plugins for tab thumbnails).

I think its going to be a deadheat between FF and Chrome in the future with IE a distant 3rd or discontinued.

I think IE will be updated to compete, but it wont be able to match the development cycles of either Firefox or Chrome. Unless they start focusing on IE as part of the Live suite (faster, leaner, meaner IE).

Mav Phoenix said,
I think IE will be updated to compete, but it wont be able to match the development cycles of either Firefox or Chrome.

You'd think with all the manpower that Microsoft has that they'd be able to put out newer versions on a regular basis instead of the snails pace that they do.

andrewbares said,
Remember, there's a new IE browser that's gonna come out, built from the ground up, and it'll compete just fine.

We don't know that this is any more than a research project, from what I recall.

MS can get IE out faster if they wanted to, but it'd be a overall smaller change compared to the one year cycle they are in now. IE8 is overall a big step over IE7. Doing something like a IE8.1 would bring few changes that many people wouldn't really care about.

Still I think we should expect quite a bit of a difference with the next version of IE now. It's fine when MS doesn't really try or moves slow in doing so, but when they get serious and move fast they can do good stuff.

EddiePwnsYou said,
I bet that when FF reaches 50% usage MS will buy Mozilla.

Firefox could eventually reach 50% market share. But Microsoft buying Mozilla ... never gonna happen!

DJGM said,
Firefox could eventually reach 50% market share. But Microsoft buying Mozilla ... never gonna happen!

Why you think that?
With MS's budget and stuff.

EddiePwnsYou said,
I bet that when FF reaches 50% usage MS will buy Mozilla.

Monday - MS buys Mozilla
Tuesday - Mozilla Foundation 2 forms around IceWeasel and MS wasted a ton of money for nothing

What would MS even be buying? the Brand? Mozilla's last version of Gecko would just be branched and continue on as an open source project, which would probably rise to compete with Microsoft again after they get complacent for a while.

geoken said,
Monday - MS buys Mozilla
Tuesday - Mozilla Foundation 2 forms around IceWeasel and MS wasted a ton of money for nothing

Gotta love the open source goodness...

Wonder how long until Opera cries to the EU that they can't compete with FireFox and to sanction them or something stupid like that

That could happen, if the Mozilla foundation released an OS and bundled Firefox with it.
Oh wait, that was just you trolling about those people from the EU that have laws and all of that. Nevermind...

neufuse said,
Wonder how long until Opera cries to the EU that they can't compete with FireFox and to sanction them or something stupid like that

I guess you didn't know Mozilla also followed the suit. Also yiou failed to get the point of the suit.

Unfortunitly the argument that bundling IE winth Windows is still somehow unfair to other browser makers doesn't hold water at all. If so, why is it, as the chart shows, FF keeps taking away from IE even though it still comes installed with Windows?

Yes Mozila followed the suit, but they weren't on Operas side from what I remember. In the end Opera has been stuck in it's 2-3% user share for years, and even changing Windows isn't going to help them.

So the whole point of the suit as you put it, is imo on shaky ground. If FF and now Chrome that came outta nowhere both can gain share just fine without having to somehow promot them or offer them as a pre or after-install option in Windows just fine then why are the EU wasting my tax, or in this cae VAT money for in the first place?

Maybe it's unfair to bundle IE, but has it hurt competition? It doesn't seem like it at all. And if you wanna break it down I believe FF has an even bigger market share chunk in the EU vs IE. In the end it's still little old Opera crying like a baby.

x-byte said,
I guess you didn't know Mozilla also followed the suit. Also yiou failed to get the point of the suit.


I'm sorry, but what I said was SARCASIM

Nice to see people considering other alternatives. Just wait until Opera 10 final gets out, their share with no doubt will increase.

Is that a typo or did Safari and Opera have exactly the same before and after percentages?

Edit: It's a typo, Safari was lower.

Nope, you're right. I'm not sure if it is a typo either, chances that they would be exactly the same down to two decimal points before and after seems unlikely (although possible of course).

"browser, rose from 3.23% to 3.36%, Safari, recently released version 4 of its browser and hitting 11 million downloads in three days, rose from 3.23% to 3.36%,"

There's two trends I notice: IE's market share keeps going down and Firefox's keeps going up. I'm glad more and more people are using Firefox. It's a great browser.

Does this include school/university/business computers as well? Because most of them use IE and are unlikely to switch to Firefox. I wonder what the percentages would be for purely home office PCs.

what said,
Does this include school/university/business computers as well? Because most of them use IE and are unlikely to switch to Firefox. I wonder what the percentages would be for purely home office PCs.


yea, i wish there was a way to tell personal pc's from work/school pc's... i'd think Firefox and IE would be very close

Buttus said,
yea, i wish there was a way to tell personal pc's from work/school pc's... i'd think Firefox and IE would be very close
I personally use both at home, IE gets more use at moment.

what said,
Does this include school/university/business computers as well? Because most of them use IE and are unlikely to switch to Firefox. I wonder what the percentages would be for purely home office PCs.

the office where i work at which is seriously huge, only uses firefox and thunderbird

Lots of schools have Macs though, and Safari is still down in the gutters in terms of usage, so I guess schools don't have much of an impact.

the office where i work at which is seriously huge, only uses firefox and thunderbird

And my university uses solely IE on a total of around 10,000 PCs across all of its campuses.

Lots of schools have Macs though, and Safari is still down in the gutters in terms of usage, so I guess schools don't have much of an impact.

Over here most schools have Dells and RM machines.

Really? Most public computers I've used now have both IE and Firefox installed side-by-side...

Schools/unis/businesses/etc have tighter security than public computers though. They usually base their security around IE and don't like you using anything else.

There are so many variables involved, and that's the problem. I want to see the percentages purely for end users.

andrewbares said,
Lots of schools have Macs though, and Safari is still down in the gutters in terms of usage, so I guess schools don't have much of an impact.


You do realize that Macs can use Firefox as well, don't you? Not all Mac users use Safari.

roadwarrior said,
You do realize that Macs can use Firefox as well, don't you? Not all Mac users use Safari.


Regardless of what you think of Safari and how u think the results regarding safari and macs security reflect thier actual security... there is not as much compulsion to change from safari on a mac as there is on the PC % wise I would think

AdmiralRooster said,
Regardless of what you think of Safari and how u think the results regarding safari and macs security reflect thier actual security... there is not as much compulsion to change from safari on a mac as there is on the PC % wise I would think

I'm replying to you from Firefox on a Mac.

FF didnt need help from the EU to get to that point, im a IE user but I can see that FF have managed to do some competition.... instead others browsers need to be crying ot the EU

shadowgmo said,
FF didnt need help from the EU to get to that point

When the council makes its decision we should have a level playing field in the EU. We will see how IE fares when it truly has to compete with better browsers. The biggest evidence for this is doubtlessly the advertisement recently released. Ask yourself why there is a sudden need by MS to advertise IE, for they never had to in the past; perhaps because its illegal monopolistic abuse is going to be eviscerated and they fear the consequential loss of control of the internet platform?

shadowgmo said,
im a IE user but I can see that FF have managed to do some competition.... instead others browsers need to be crying ot the EU

Yes in spite of IE's illegal advantage, Firefox has surmounted the once insurmountable and become the lingua franca of browser choice. The hedgemony which IE once enjoyed has now been challenged, and once the EC forces other browsers into the OS we shall finally have true choice; I for one can't wait to see the percentages in the EU once this happens. The US could also follow the lead of the EU on this (here's hoping).

I still expect MS to fight any decision tooth and nail like the anachronistic dinosaur they are. Their first strike was to begin advertising IE, and who knows the next.

liberatus_sum said,
When the council makes its decision we should have a level playing field in the EU. We will see how IE fares when it truly has to compete with better browsers. The biggest evidence for this is doubtlessly the advertisement recently released. Ask yourself why there is a sudden need by MS to advertise IE, for they never had to in the past; perhaps because its illegal monopolistic abuse is going to be eviscerated and they fear the consequential loss of control of the internet platform?


Yes in spite of IE's illegal advantage, Firefox has surmounted the once insurmountable and become the lingua franca of browser choice. The hedgemony which IE once enjoyed has now been challenged, and once the EC forces other browsers into the OS we shall finally have true choice; I for one can't wait to see the percentages in the EU once this happens. The US could also follow the lead of the EU on this (here's hoping).

I still expect MS to fight any decision tooth and nail like the anachronistic dinosaur they are. Their first strike was to begin advertising IE, and who knows the next.


They will just buy mozilla.

Recon415 said,
1 up for Firefox!

Yep. I've been using Firefox since the very beginning (You know, before the modern icon even existed) and I'm glad to see that it is gaining market share. But that's not to say that IE8 isn't a very competent browser; it's just that it's become more or less with the habit.

I hate it when people use Firefox religiously and thinks everything else in the world sucks and wants everyone to use it, but either way, I'm glad that the choice is offered and made itself stronger in every move.

chconline said,
Yep. I've been using Firefox since the very beginning (You know, before the modern icon even existed) and I'm glad to see that it is gaining market share. But that's not to say that IE8 isn't a very competent browser; it's just that it's become more or less with the habit.

I hate it when people use Firefox religiously and thinks everything else in the world sucks and wants everyone to use it, but either way, I'm glad that the choice is offered and made itself stronger in every move.

Over 2 years' use of Firefox, I've gotten everything working just the way I want it. No way am I going to change until another browser can do just that. I could care less what browser I use as long as it works the way I need it, and it just so happens that Firefox meets that requirement. Props to Mozilla for making the best browser out there.

chconline said,
Yep. I've been using Firefox since the very beginning (You know, before the modern icon even existed)

That's a very vague and general description of the beginning.
I started using Firefox in 2002, right around the time it was re-named from "Phoenix" to "Firebird". Never looked back...

And that's all this blog did was add a chart to info from statcounter.com.

How many websites have inserted this company's code into their sites, btw? Is this representative in any way with the vast majority of the world's computer users, or does it only cover a handful of websites that work with statcounter code?

Just curious how useful these figures really are.

Ji@nBing said,
It's a chart. What do you want, an f'ing smoke show with lasers coming out of it?

That would be nice, actually.

zeke009 said,
Choice is a wonderful thing... oh look, crying to the EU hasn't helped Opera too much yet.

nothing but a good opera browser will
too bad well never see that
lololol

Neoauld said,
nothing but a good opera browser will
too bad well never see that
lololol

HAHAHAHA, ZING!

I have just about everything installed here (Except Opera - I tried it, hated it, and uninstalled it...)... My browser of choice is Firefox, but I do use Chrome a good bit too. I couldn't really get into Safari (Too much bling, too little substance, or IE 7 or 8 (Too slow... Why does it take 30 seconds to open a new / blank tab?).

takes less then a half a second for me in IE. although IE likes to crash for me a lot, my browser of choice is FF, almost never crashes. I'm so familiar with FF its hard using something else, just slows me down.

Gabe3 said,
takes less then a half a second for me in IE. although IE likes to crash for me a lot, my browser of choice is FF, almost never crashes. I'm so familiar with FF its hard using something else, just slows me down.

Weird. I have had IE 7 and 8 installed on 7 computers, and opening a new tab is ungodly slow on all of them. I've switched all of the office computers to Firefox as a result. I have experienced a LOT of crashes with 7, but 8 crashes a lot less I think.

I agree on being used to Firefox. I feel the same way. When I'm in a different browser I always find myself looking for one of my add ons...

M_Lyons10 said,
Weird. I have had IE 7 and 8 installed on 7 computers, and opening a new tab is ungodly slow on all of them. I've switched all of the office computers to Firefox as a result. I have experienced a LOT of crashes with 7, but 8 crashes a lot less I think.

I agree on being used to Firefox. I feel the same way. When I'm in a different browser I always find myself looking for one of my add ons...


I'm not much of a add-on user, i've only found 2 or 3 that are useful to me. but navigating through bookmarks and tabs is what I'm use to using in FF.

Neoauld said,
nothing but a good opera browser will
too bad well never see that
lololol


It's good enough for me, so meh. Could care less about a percent increase or a 10 percent increase.

zeke009 said,
Choice is a wonderful thing... oh look, crying to the EU hasn't helped Opera too much yet.

oh good..another crybaby who just doesnt get it!

Neoauld said,
nothing but a good opera browser will
too bad well never see that
lololol


Then it's great that there's alternatives available for you so you aren't forced to using the one. Opera still has features that have me hooked (such as mouse gestures) that just make using anything else lackluster. (The equivalent Firefox extension isn't the same)

M_Lyons10 said,
Weird. I have had IE 7 and 8 installed on 7 computers, and opening a new tab is ungodly slow on all of them. I've switched all of the office computers to Firefox as a result. I have experienced a LOT of crashes with 7, but 8 crashes a lot less I think.

I agree on being used to Firefox. I feel the same way. When I'm in a different browser I always find myself looking for one of my add ons...

The tab delay is caused by a bad addin, most often the Java SSV helper and Symantec web filter.

GreyWolfSC said,

The tab delay is caused by a bad addin, most often the Java SSV helper and Symantec web filter.

spybot immunization is what did it for me

M_Lyons10 said,
I have experienced a LOT of crashes with 7, but 8 crashes a lot less I think.

Not exactly the criteria we look for in a, new, browser, is it?!

Gabe3 said,

I'm not much of a add-on user, i've only found 2 or 3 that are useful to me. but navigating through bookmarks and tabs is what I'm use to using in FF.

Same here. One addon if you don't already have it is Xmarks, it's been very useful for me as I can organize my bookmarks from any computer now.

zeke009 said,
Choice is a wonderful thing... oh look, crying to the EU hasn't helped Opera too much yet.

Opera will gain marketshare when it can block advertisements.

Frank Fontaine said,
Opera can block advertisments

i think he meant, with an easy to install extension that works just as well(without the giant empty spaces)

M_Lyons10 said,

HAHAHAHA, ZING!

I have just about everything installed here (Except Opera - I tried it, hated it, and uninstalled it...)... My browser of choice is Firefox, but I do use Chrome a good bit too. I couldn't really get into Safari (Too much bling, too little substance, or IE 7 or 8 (Too slow... Why does it take 30 seconds to open a new / blank tab?).

hmm, I think the tab thing is to do with the spybot search and destroy immunisation, remove that and it speeds up apparently.

I'm mainly a Firefox user cos it has soooooo many addons that I use (and cos I don't WANT to remove the immunisation from IE!!!)

EDIT: I should really RTFPs before posting myself :P

I read something about that problem with IE's tab issues somewhere I think it was CNet. There is a fix for it and if I remember correctly its not a problem necessarily related to IE but a plug-in or something.

I'm not really into browsers. I use IE of course but I don't really think about the browser because it does what i want. Never felt a need to try anything else and im quite content. And after sitting at a computer all day long then having to go home to get online and spend another hour or two in class, I'm just no interested in anything that doesn't really change my experience.

Maybe I'll try FF someday but as of now I don't have a compelling reason to do it.