Intel Ordered to Produce Foreign Evidence in AMD Case

Advanced Micro Devices will be able to collect evidence about events outside the U.S. for an antitrust lawsuit against Intel. AMD alleges Intel used its dominant position in the microprocessor business to pressure system makers not to use AMD chips in their products. Its suit, before Judge Joseph Farnan of the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware, is scheduled to be heard beginning April 2009.

Intel had argued against allowing discovery, or the collection of evidence, for documents involving activities outside the U.S. But it decided not to object to a Dec. 15 recommendation by Special Master Vincent Poppiti that foreign discovery should go forward, said Intel spokesman Chuck Molloy. A special master is a specialist appointed to overlook certain aspects of a suit. Intel told Judge Farnan in a letter yesterday that it wouldn't fight Poppiti's recommendation. The same day, Farnan ordered Intel to produce documents and other evidence sought in discovery that concern its business outside the U.S. In a press release today, AMD hailed the order as a major victory in its suit, which was filed in June 2005.

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You know this lawsuits makes me laugh nowadays...where as previously I used to read what is going on.

The fact is Intel and AMD both does nothing for customers, all they did, are doing and will do is in the interest of the company and it's share holders PERIOD.

I also know that anti competitive behaviour is wrong and illegal but believe it or not every company does it (in big or small ways). If you think AMD would have never ever done this then you are smoking weed and being naive to the ground.

As long as humans run these companies this problems will continue to exist and there is no way to solve it except open human geno pool and remove the EVIL gene :p

Good day

I really don't think you can say if AMD would or would NOT have done this. No one knows, cause.. it is what it is. Right?

Yeah everyone keeps talking about special rebates and all that bologna where that isn't the issue. The issue is that Intel might be purposely doing that to screw AMD, not so that more of their stuff can be sold.

I recall when the news of the suit first broke out some speculation from the "I'm not a lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" types that the way Intel is using incentives may be construed as unlawful, but it's not clear (at least at the time). All I know is that in this day and age of litigation aplenty, the suit was not surprising, and AMD still makes good chips. With the rush to the C2D bandwagon everyone keeps forgetting that the K8 is not bad, just that C2D is better. This is just another page in the computer hardware soap opera.

dhitb said,
I recall when the news of the suit first broke out some speculation from the "I'm not a lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" types that the way Intel is using incentives may be construed as unlawful, but it's not clear (at least at the time). All I know is that in this day and age of litigation aplenty, the suit was not surprising, and AMD still makes good chips. With the rush to the C2D bandwagon everyone keeps forgetting that the K8 is not bad, just that C2D is better. This is just another page in the computer hardware soap opera.

if you did read my last post nothing intel is doing is unlawful many companys do this and in the retail industry thats all that needs to be said and if amd cannot keep up with intel you will read more threads saying "amd hurt by intel price cuts"

MvT Cracker said,

if you did read my last post nothing intel is doing is unlawful many companys do this and in the retail industry thats all that needs to be said and if amd cannot keep up with intel you will read more threads saying "amd hurt by intel price cuts"

And this is why my future rig will be with an amd-based processor. Intel just doesnt stop being greedy even if their Conroe, Kentsfield, and whatever c2d is better than all amds. Grow up Intel..

MvT Cracker said,

if you did read my last post nothing intel is doing is unlawful many companys do this and in the retail industry thats all that needs to be said and if amd cannot keep up with intel you will read more threads saying "amd hurt by intel price cuts"


Where it gets messy is that in certain countries, Intel isn't just offering incentives to OEM's for buying its products, but to specifically not sell its competitor's products (at least that's the gist IIRC).

I'm an oem and Yes I do get discounts and advertising help and free stuff at events but NO ONE FORCES ME TO BE INTEL ONLY

I'm sure dell gets more discounts as they are "premium providers" and takes advantage of discounts offered by intel
I do not see any discounts from amd to its resellers maybe they do maybe they don't

microsoft dose the same thing with "oem" and "retail" windows you can get windows cheaper from a "disty" and sometimes a bonus offer or rebate or discount

become a computer reseller start your own company register with any company that offers a "channel partner program" take advantage

its like a company that offers a coupon for 25% how do they still make money they are not making as much from the mark up

people use to argue that amd was cheaper right now intel is cheaper and still offers a discount prices on some products some of the time so intel if they wanted to could make cpu's even cheaper

Quote - MvT Cracker said @ #9
I'm an oem and Yes I do get discounts and advertising help and free stuff at events but NO ONE FORCES ME TO BE INTEL ONLY

I'm sure dell gets more discounts as they are "premium providers" and takes advantage of discounts offered by intel
I do not see any discounts from amd to its resellers maybe they do maybe they don't

microsoft dose the same thing with "oem" and "retail" windows you can get windows cheaper from a "disty" and sometimes a bonus offer or rebate or discount

become a computer reseller start your own company register with any company that offers a "channel partner program" take advantage

its like a company that offers a coupon for 25% how do they still make money they are not making as much from the mark up

people use to argue that amd was cheaper right now intel is cheaper and still offers a discount prices on some products some of the time so intel if they wanted to could make cpu's even cheaper

Everything you just stated is spot on right, but as most of the people posting here are not all that knowledgable about the industry this kind of information usually gets ingnored.

The Intel ones seem to be just a fanatical as the *nix ones.

When will these Intel suck holes realise that the core duo is the best chip Intel has put out for far to long.

Also to those saying about the Itanium being 64bit yes you are correct, but Microsoft seems to have been giving the 64bit setup of AMDs more love, why prehaps because it was innovative, functional and not yet another half arsed attemt from Intel.

Seems that a few people don't quite understand the jist of the article. It pertains to discovery, and not the merits of the case. I think the question should be why are the US courts exercising power over activities outside of US Jurisdiction? AMD should have to file their claim in each country, and base it upon the sovereign law of each State.

What happens in the US should stay in the US.

Quote - Pegus said @ #7
Seems that a few people don't quite understand the jist of the article. It pertains to discovery, and not the merits of the case. I think the question should be why are the US courts exercising power over activities outside of US Jurisdiction? AMD should have to file their claim in each country, and base it upon the sovereign law of each State.

What happens in the US should stay in the US.

Well the company is an international one, so any country should be able to request files from divisions of the company even if it is in a different state or country.

Quote - Pegus said @ #7
Seems that a few people don't quite understand the jist of the article. It pertains to discovery, and not the merits of the case. I think the question should be why are the US courts exercising power over activities outside of US Jurisdiction? AMD should have to file their claim in each country, and base it upon the sovereign law of each State.

What happens in the US should stay in the US.


I agree

Where did you get that idea? Intel made a 64-bit chip years ahead of AMD, it is called the Itanium. Neither AMD nor Intel currently make consumer 64-bit processors, as they are all add-ons to the 32-bit instruction set. There is no "emulation," as 64-bit only refers to adding additional length to each x86 instruction so that it is 64 bits wide.

I'm pretty sure the Core 2 was released this year. Third quarter, in fact. Yet this lawsuit was filed in June 2005.

Who's the retard saying AMD filed this because they can't compete with the Core 2? For at least the first few years of this decade AMD's processors were very clearly a better choice, economically and performance-wise than what Intel had to offer. I remember a time when the only arguments against AMD an Intel fanboy had were heat and stability. Both phenomenally easy to deal with if you do just a little bit of reading (which you should be doing, if you're building a system yourself--computers aren't legos, after all).

Thats what i was thinking when i was reading the comments, the lawsuit was filed a fair bit before Core 2 hit the market.

Finally Intel's nasty business practices come to light
It's clear that only with nasty tricks, Intel could've stayed that far ahead with the crap they often produce x)

Better products? Arguably. Better name recognition? Definitely.

Intel had argued against allowing discovery, or the collection of evidence, for documents involving activities outside the U.S.

That is a company that has something to hide.

Quote - MrCobra said @ #2.2
Better products? Arguably.

Arguably?!?!?!? Wow I wish these Neowin's comment's section take a picture with a webcam when I read that. Haven't had a good laugh like that in a while.


A Core 2 Duo blows any AMD processor out of the water. Period. Intel doesn't have better products; It has WAY better products.

I'm waiting patiently for some AMDroid to blurt out how much better Hyper Transport is over the Front Side Bus.

Proof is in the puddin', kiddies.

Quote - rIaHc3 said @ #2.3

Arguably?!?!?!? Wow I wish these Neowin's comment's section take a picture with a webcam when I read that. Haven't had a good laugh like that in a while.


A Core 2 Duo blows any AMD processor out of the water. Period. Intel doesn't have better products; It has WAY better products.

Depends on who you ask.

Quote - raskren said @ #2.4
I'm waiting patiently for some AMDroid to blurt out how much better Hyper Transport is over the Front Side Bus.

Proof is in the puddin', kiddies.


I won't argue over either one. I will say that it's sad they [Intel] had to ditch 5 years of R&D and use a redesigned PIII to be able to compete.

Quote - MrCobra said @ #2.5

Depends on who you ask.

Are you for real? Benchmark programs have shown the only thing that AMD CPUs come close to or match an Intel Core 2 system is memory performance and latency. Which is rather hilarious, as the AMD design should have WAY better performance considering the memory controller is on-die.


Quote - MrCobra said @ #2.5

I won't argue over either one. I will say that it's sad they [Intel] had to ditch 5 years of R&D and use a redesigned PIII to be able to compete.

Really? What about SSE3, 64-bit support, Quad-pumped FSB, chipset, etc? The only thing they did dump is the long pipelines in the CPU, as it only had advantages in video editing/rendering.

Quote - rIaHc3 said @ #2.3

Arguably?!?!?!? Wow I wish these Neowin's comment's section take a picture with a webcam when I read that. Haven't had a good laugh like that in a while.


A Core 2 Duo blows any AMD processor out of the water. Period. Intel doesn't have better products; It has WAY better products.

Amd been ahead of Intel for years now, Intel just caught up / ahead of them with the duo core 2 recently.

Quote - jstillion said @ #2.7

Amd been ahead of Intel for years now, Intel just caught up / ahead of them with the duo core 2 recently.

AMD was trading the lead with Intel until the Prescott launch, period, anything else is revisionist history at best. Hell, Intel was selling PIV 2.4b/b and 2.8b/c Northwoods so cheap it was hard to not buy one and the performance was better than the competitive Athlon XP at the time.

AMD really only suffers from bad business decisions; not enough production and underestimating Intel's ability to recover from Prescott. It will be hard for a company that sells out of product every quarter (due to poor production planning and inventory management) to gain sympathy from most courts. And while you might not think it is fair, there is nothing illegal about rebates to OEMs who bought large quantities.

AMD makes a great CPU and has for a long while, but it hasn't always been a run away leader and fanboys should learn to live with that. I love my AMD box, but my Conroe box stomps all over it; period. I'm after the best technology I can get at the time, I'll leave the politics and moral indignity to the "enthusiast" crowd.

Quote - zivan56 said @ #2.6
Are you for real? Benchmark programs have shown the only thing that AMD CPUs come close to or match an Intel Core 2 system is memory performance and latency. Which is rather hilarious, as the AMD design should have WAY better performance considering the memory controller is on-die.

If something works for someone and does what they want it to then it doesn't matter to them what the competition has. So again, it depends on who you ask.


Really? What about SSE3, 64-bit support, Quad-pumped FSB, chipset, etc? The only thing they did dump is the long pipelines in the CPU, as it only had advantages in video editing/rendering.

The whole P4 line was scrapped and they based the Core 2 off of the Pentium M which is based on a PIII.

Quote - MrCobra said @ #2.5

Depends on who you ask.

I won't argue over either one. I will say that it's sad they [Intel] had to ditch 5 years of R&D and use a redesigned PIII to be able to compete.

No, actually, it really doesn't. The Core 2 Duo architecture started from the Pentium M, which started from the PIII but is very different in it's design. You can't just take a PIII change a couple things and suddenly get the Core 2 Duo. Go to college and take electrical engineering or hell just read up on the technology at wikipedia and then try to come back with such nonsense.

If something works for someone and does what they want it to then it doesn't matter to them what the competition has. So again, it depends on who you ask.


Ok, however, I am talking about facts, not preferences.

The whole P4 line was scrapped and they based the Core 2 off of the Pentium M which is based on a PIII.


No, the pipeline architecture that was used on the PIII was used for the Pentium M. Intel made the mistake of making the CPU pipeline too long and therefore not efficient for anything non-multimedia intensive. As a result of this long pipeline, delays causes the processor to have quite a delay when not using the full pipeline (SSE3 mostly uses it).

If you think of it that way, all Intel/AMD processors are based off the 8086, and we are living in the stone age

Quote - MrCobra said @ #2.5

Depends on who you ask.

It's a matter of the whole package though.

Ironically, it seems like there's a better range right now of AM2 boards than of C2D-friendly Socket T boards, particularly in the low end, both more choices (especially if you just want out-of-the-box usability, not "board version 301.16 or higher with BIOS version 2116 only") and better choices (SLI boards are affordable and commonplace on Socket AM2, less so with Socket T)

It's not about their products. It's about Intel "locking out" AMD from vendors like Dell. AMD is saying Intel gave "kickbacks" and other "incentives" to OEMs to NOT go with AMD. That is not legal. Why did Dell all of a sudden let AMD in??? Maybe they didn't want to be apart of this suit? Just my two cents.

Quote - RAID 0 said @ #1.1
It's not about their products.

It's all about their products. Don't be so blind and naive.

AMD should stop suing and releasing chips that use the same tech as their current gen and work (and release) on their next gen processors or else Intel/Core 2 Duo will whip their asses (which is what I hope happens)

Quote - rIaHc3 said @ #1.2

It's all about their products. Don't be so blind and naive.

AMD should stop suing and releasing chips that use the same tech as their current gen and work (and release) on their next gen processors or else Intel/Core 2 Duo will whip their asses (which is what I hope happens)

Stop being so biased, companies aren't allowed to use bribery etc. (which is basically what this is) to make sure a competitor doesn't beat them, this is called competition law (look in a business law book). It's bad that a company as large as Intel is acting in this manner.

Also, it's not about whose better, so why bring it up about the Intel Core2 Duo? That just shows your bias.

This Case started when AMD had the best processors in the market (before Core 2 Duo or even Core Duo came out).

This is clearly not a case of 'our products suck, so we'll sue', its case of 'we are being blocked from competing with our much larger competition because our competition offers financial incentives to retailers to not go with our products'.

Intel is clearly in the wrong here as what it is doing is anti-competitive, blocking your competition by providing financial incentives KILLS consumer choice, allows prices to rise and the products you buy to be far less effective. If AMD wasn't competitive with Intel, it would be a big blow for the consumer all over the world.

Monopolies are not good for the consumer in any case.

Quote - rIaHc3 said @ #1.2

It's all about their products. Don't be so blind and naive.

AMD should stop suing and releasing chips that use the same tech as their current gen and work (and release) on their next gen processors or else Intel/Core 2 Duo will whip their asses (which is what I hope happens)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/28/amd_suit_intel/
This article sums it up all of the dodgy behaviour pretty well I think.

Quote - RAID 0 said @ #1.1
It's not about their products. It's about Intel "locking out" AMD from vendors like Dell. AMD is saying Intel gave "kickbacks" and other "incentives" to OEMs to NOT go with AMD. That is not legal. Why did Dell all of a sudden let AMD in??? Maybe they didn't want to be apart of this suit? Just my two cents.

I'm an oem and Yes I do get discounts and advertising help and free stuff at events but NO ONE FORCES ME TO BE INTEL ONLY

MvT Cracker said,

I'm an oem and Yes I do get discounts and advertising help and free stuff at events but NO ONE FORCES ME TO BE INTEL ONLY

Because I doubt intel is going to be too bothered in offering fiancial incentives to maybe a man and a workbench making a few dozen PCs a year.

Unless your company name is Dell or something or some scalable size then I dont think you have to worry.