Kinect outsells and has better attach rate than Playstation Move

There is no question that Microsoft has a hit on their hands with the Xbox 360 Kinect. Comparing numbers is difficult because companies confuse the issue with “shipped” numbers vs. “sold” numbers. The former are how many products were shipped to retail stores for sale, while the latter is how many end users have actually purchased. According to Reghardware.com, Microsoft initially expected to ship roughly five million units during the 2010 holiday period but actually managed to ship roughly eight million devices. It is estimated that 6.3 million motion controllers were sold to customers by the end of January. The Playstation Move, which was released a month earlier than Microsoft’s Kinect, has sold roughly 5.2 million devices. This number is over a million less than the number of Kinect controllers sold.

Even more important than number of units sold is the attach rate to the console as this indicates how many households are actively using the product. It’s here that Sony falls even further away from Microsoft due to the fact that PS3 owners need to purchase multiple Playstation Move devices if they want to play with friends and family. Based on this, it is estimated that only 4.2 million households are using the Move, two million less than Microsoft’s competing device.

Microsoft’s marketing blitz during the holidays is thought to be the major differentiator for the large gap in sales. While Kinect was being advertised on talk shows like Ellen and seen constantly in commercials, the Playstation Move was rarely seen.

Image Courtesy of VideoGameBlogger.org

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Thing to remember is that you only need 1 Kinect to have 4 friends over and play. You need 4 moves to have 4 friends play. So looking at per household numbers might show a greater disparity.

I still need to re-arrange my living room in order to be use the kinnect.
Have got some use w/ the move, Heavy Rain in particular.

I have both consoles and zero interest on Kinect and Move, but (so far) you can at least use Move with games you would actually want to play even if they hadn't the motion capture gimmick.

I'm really surprised that the gap isn't much bigger. I would have expected that Playstation Move sold much less than that.

Master1 said,
Some free advice to Sony, put the move in some adult themed shops, and boom instant sale raise

They need to put vibration feedback in the next version of Move.

Sony's reputation of raping the consumer certainly isn't helping the cause. I got a PS3, and it's hard to convince my friends to get a PS3 when every day another story is released about Sony suing someone else or locking down the system more and more.

That being said, VGChartz shows 48 Million PS3s sold compared to 52 Million 360s. It had been gaining fast on the 360, and probably would have surpassed it by now if Sony weren't such a douche company.

thenonhacker said,

Sony Bravia HDTV's, yes I agree.
Playstation Move Ping Pong Wand is a Fail Whale.


If only they actually made TVs still...

I'm too tall for my Kinect. It can't see my face when it can see my feet. In all honesty, I like the name Natal better.

If the Kinect can not attach itself to top name games soon though, it will be collecting a lot more dust. At least the Move has shown how it can be used on many games, and is actually being implemented in them for different types of functions. We have yet to see the Kinect do anything passed dancing, jumping, and slapping your hand in the air. Time will tell, but its use in games will be the ultimate determining factor of success.

shakey said,
If the Kinect can not attach itself to top name games soon though, it will be collecting a lot more dust. At least the Move has shown how it can be used on many games, and is actually being implemented in them for different types of functions. We have yet to see the Kinect do anything passed dancing, jumping, and slapping your hand in the air. Time will tell, but its use in games will be the ultimate determining factor of success.

I do believe they were demo-ing a Star Wars based game even before release. (3rd person fighting) The game in and of itself is still in development, so yeah... If I had an Xbox, I'd get Kinect just for that if nothing else. Presumably there are more games in the works for it too.

Metodi Mitov said,

I do believe they were demo-ing a Star Wars based game even before release. (3rd person fighting) The game in and of itself is still in development, so yeah... If I had an Xbox, I'd get Kinect just for that if nothing else. Presumably there are more games in the works for it too.

That was actually a staged demo. If you watch it, the moves the person does and the game don't match up in sync, and you will see the game basically predict the future and do moves that the user had not imputed in yet. They have yet to figure out how to incorporate total kinect body usage without a controller for games that require you to move a character on non rail based worlds.
That demo was cool, but was easy to spot where it was just being staged and not actually working with the equipment or user. I'd be all over it as well if it could actually do that and work in a game. Sadly, controller input will always be needed until we get mind control going lol.

shakey said,

That was actually a staged demo. If you watch it, the moves the person does and the game don't match up in sync, and you will see the game basically predict the future and do moves that the user had not imputed in yet. They have yet to figure out how to incorporate total kinect body usage without a controller for games that require you to move a character on non rail based worlds.
That demo was cool, but was easy to spot where it was just being staged and not actually working with the equipment or user. I'd be all over it as well if it could actually do that and work in a game. Sadly, controller input will always be needed until we get mind control going lol.


Every single demo was staged, including that of games and technology that has already been released. It was done because the lighting didn't allow Kinect to work. Regardless of how you or I feel about misleading the audience, you're leaving out that important fact.

shakey said,
If the Kinect can not attach itself to top name games soon though, it will be collecting a lot more dust. At least the Move has shown how it can be used on many games, and is actually being implemented in them for different types of functions. We have yet to see the Kinect do anything passed dancing, jumping, and slapping your hand in the air. Time will tell, but its use in games will be the ultimate determining factor of success.

Playing games is harmful to your use of English...

Lachlan said,

ya move is to similar to the Wii

but move got some good games... i cant find a single good game for kinect

eilegz said,

but move got some good games... i cant find a single good game for kinect

Seriously dude, I don't want to look stupid in that Ping Pong Wand, don't care even if it's a Baby Blue PlayStation Move Controller.

thenonhacker said,

Seriously dude, I don't want to look stupid in that Ping Pong Wand, don't care even if it's a Baby Blue PlayStation Move Controller.

Compared to flailing your arms around to deflect an in-game rubber ball, and then raging, because the lag of Kinect means you miss it most of the time?

MightyJordan said,

Compared to flailing your arms around to deflect an in-game rubber ball, and then raging, because the lag of Kinect means you miss it most of the time?

I have no lag with my Kinect and I do not have the new Kinect specific port either.

schubb2003 said,
I have no lag with my Kinect and I do not have the new Kinect specific port either.

Lucky you. Every time I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX), there's always been very noticeable lag, nearly half a second of it, and it's more than enough to throw you off and ruin the gameplay.

MightyJordan said,

Lucky you. Every time I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX), there's always been very noticeable lag, nearly half a second of it, and it's more than enough to throw you off and ruin the gameplay.

Then it is just you then being unlucky. There are no half-second lags when I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX).

Emil Valsson said,
Too bad the games for it are crap.

I actually quite like Sports and Adventures. Very playable and lots of fun with a few friends around. I got Dance Central too which is fun, but that's strictly a 4 pints and above kind of game.

Emil Valsson said,
Too bad the games for it are crap.

Agreed, but it's not so much the games themselves that make them crap, it's the bad lag from Kinect. It's bloody frustrating. If they bothered to fix that before releasing it, Kinect would be much better. Hopefully, it can be fixed purely through a software update, but I'm not holding out much hope for that.

MightyJordan said,

Agreed, but it's not so much the games themselves that make them crap, it's the bad lag from Kinect. It's bloody frustrating. If they bothered to fix that before releasing it, Kinect would be much better. Hopefully, it can be fixed purely through a software update, but I'm not holding out much hope for that.

I have no lag with my Kinect and I do not have the new Kinect specific port either.

schubb2003 said,
I have no lag with my Kinect and I do not have the new Kinect specific port either.

Lucky you. Every time I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX), there's always been very noticeable lag, nearly half a second of it, and it's more than enough to throw you off and ruin the gameplay.

MightyJordan said,

Lucky you. Every time I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX), there's always been very noticeable lag, nearly half a second of it, and it's more than enough to throw you off and ruin the gameplay.

Then it is just you then being unlucky. There are no half-second lags when I've tested it out in various stores (GAME, HMV, and CEX).

would rather see a comparison that is actually valid. i doubt the market share is even with the ps3 and xbox so give comparisons based on how many people on the console vs console and attachment. if 1 million people own xbox and 500,000 of those own a kinect, compared to 900,000 owning a ps3 and 500,000 own move, i would argue the move is doing better in penetrating is possible market.

ILikeTobacco said,
would rather see a comparison that is actually valid. i doubt the market share is even with the ps3 and xbox so give comparisons based on how many people on the console vs console and attachment. if 1 million people own xbox and 500,000 of those own a kinect, compared to 900,000 owning a ps3 and 500,000 own move, i would argue the move is doing better in penetrating is possible market.

Whoa slow down there tiger, you're showing signs of high level thought!

ILikeTobacco said,
would rather see a comparison that is actually valid. i doubt the market share is even with the ps3 and xbox so give comparisons based on how many people on the console vs console and attachment. if 1 million people own xbox and 500,000 of those own a kinect, compared to 900,000 owning a ps3 and 500,000 own move, i would argue the move is doing better in penetrating is possible market.

Hey, stop bringing logic into this

To add to that note as well. Also, right now the Kinect is just for rail based games that you either jump or dance to. They have yet to implement it into anything other than that. The Move at least has Killzone 3, MAG, LBP 2, Resident Evil 5, Dead Space Extraction, and many other top name games that it can be used on. If the Kinect can not do the same on the xbox, it will be a failed product long before the Move ever is.
Though the Kinect can see a lot longer life span on the PC side with how easily it can be coded for.

shakey said,

Hey, stop bringing logic into this

To add to that note as well. Also, right now the Kinect is just for rail based games that you either jump or dance to. They have yet to implement it into anything other than that. The Move at least has Killzone 3, MAG, LBP 2, Resident Evil 5, Dead Space Extraction, and many other top name games that it can be used on. If the Kinect can not do the same on the xbox, it will be a failed product long before the Move ever is.
Though the Kinect can see a lot longer life span on the PC side with how easily it can be coded for.

50 million 360s sold
6.2 million Kinects sold
12.4% penetration

47.6 million PS3s sold
5.2 Move's sold
10.9% penetration

Used numbers found on wiki and total devices sold, not per household.

ILikeTobacco said,

50 million 360s sold
6.2 million Kinects sold
12.4% penetration

47.6 million PS3s sold
5.2 Move's sold
10.9% penetration

Used numbers found on wiki and total devices sold, not per household.

I've found 51.9 million Xbox sold, 47.9 million ps3's. But still a very close race, and there is only a difference by about 1%. Really too little to consider anything about. I still think we need to give both of these devices a year, see what they have been used for, and then decided what is the "successful" product.

ILikeTobacco said,
would rather see a comparison that is actually valid. i doubt the market share is even with the ps3 and xbox so give comparisons based on how many people on the console vs console and attachment. if 1 million people own xbox and 500,000 of those own a kinect, compared to 900,000 owning a ps3 and 500,000 own move, i would argue the move is doing better in penetrating is possible market.

So basically even though the 360 and Kinect are selling better, you are sure they are not. Yea, okay.

bob_c_b said,

So basically even though the 360 and Kinect are selling better, you are sure they are not. Yea, okay.

No bob, it is called taking into actual market percentage and not just throwing numbers in the air. If we are talking about actual attachment rate, then you have to figure in how many of each product someone owns, then determine how many of those owners of said product then own another piece of the puzzle. But if the xbox sold 1 million and half of those have the kinect, and the PS3 sold only 1, but that 1 person also bought the move, then the move would have a 100% attachment rate and win. It's called statistics, math, and fractions; some things very useful in life.

bob_c_b said,

So basically even though the 360 and Kinect are selling better, you are sure they are not. Yea, okay.

im saying give statistics and data that actually mean something. the kinect sold 2 million more than the move and yet we are talking about a difference of 1-2% in market penetration. the kinect is outselling the move, just not at a ridiculus rate. as new products, it is still to close to call on which did a better job at getting into the market.

ILikeTobacco said,
Used numbers found on wiki and total devices sold, not per household.
Good use of stats

You mention it, but the caveat is very important - that the Kinect number is very likely accurate, whereas the Move number is an absolute maximum (assumes 1 device per household) and *will* be lower in reality.

I understand you guys really want to compare which is better with numbers- but honestly if you just look at it and think about it, isnt it obvious which one is more unique?

A glowing dildo or no controller at all? hmm....

shakey said,

No bob, it is called taking into actual market percentage and not just throwing numbers in the air. If we are talking about actual attachment rate, then you have to figure in how many of each product someone owns, then determine how many of those owners of said product then own another piece of the puzzle. But if the xbox sold 1 million and half of those have the kinect, and the PS3 sold only 1, but that 1 person also bought the move, then the move would have a 100% attachment rate and win. It's called statistics, math, and fractions; some things very useful in life.

Yea, but like many people you are trying to bend the statistics to fit your argument, also something useful in life and fanboy wars.

shakey said,

Hey, stop bringing logic into this

To add to that note as well. Also, right now the Kinect is just for rail based games that you either jump or dance to. They have yet to implement it into anything other than that. The Move at least has Killzone 3, MAG, LBP 2, Resident Evil 5, Dead Space Extraction, and many other top name games that it can be used on. If the Kinect can not do the same on the xbox, it will be a failed product long before the Move ever is.
Though the Kinect can see a lot longer life span on the PC side with how easily it can be coded for.

Add to that Tiger Woods 2012 coming out at the end of March with Move support built in from day 1 and Augusta National as the big new course offered. Move is going to pick up some ground there. I can't imagine Kinect will work too well trying to track a golf swing from a side-on view. If you're facing the TV looking to one side or the other sure, but not side on looking AT the TV.

ZenVenT said,
I understand you guys really want to compare which is better with numbers- but honestly if you just look at it and think about it, isnt it obvious which one is more unique?

A glowing dildo or no controller at all? hmm....


The glowing dildo. The "no controller at all" idea was done by sony last generation, with the EyeToy on the PS2. The EyeToy camera is 60FPS, and Kinect (as well as the old Live Vision camera) is only 30FPS. And to top it off, the EyeToy has no noticeable lag when playing, and the Kinect still has a lot of lag; and you have to take into account that the EyeToy was released in July 2004, over 6 whole years before Kinect was released.

Sony could have easily made Kinect way before Microsoft by bundling a couple of EyeToys into one device (which is pretty much how Microsoft made Kinect; by bundling a couple of Live Vision cameras and a microphone into a big rectangle ), but they didn't, and there's a very good reason why: it can't be taken seriously.

The closest attempt you'll get so far is The Gunstringer, which is an effectively on-rails shooter where you move your character from left to right with your left hand, then "shoot" with your right hand, but you can't actually shoot at an enemy; you have to aim at him for a split second, then it locks on to him. You can then lock on to 6 enemies in one go, then you pretend to fire a gun with your hand to kill them all in one hit. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT7br2qbUzw Basically, it's a dumbed down version of what we saw in Splinter Cell: Conviction, and I'm pretty sure it was in another game way before that.

MightyJordan, what the heck does the FPS have to do with anything? 30 FPS is at the limit of human perception, and it doesn't mean anything gets rendered at 30 FPS.

No, the EyeToy is not the same as a Kinect.

But, really, you know this.

Kirkburn said,
30 FPS is at the limit of human perception

Wrong. It's more like 60FPS (it's almost certainly much higher than that, but it's hard to tell a difference when you go above 60FPS). If you want a perfect example, see Forza Motorsport 3. The game plays at 60FPS, but the replays play at 30FPS. You do a race, then watch the replay and tell me with a straight face that you can't see the difference.

Again, the capture rate of the camera has nothing to do with the framerate of the games.

No human would notice the difference between movement captured at 30 FPS compared to 60 FPS.

krasch said,

I can't imagine Kinect will work too well trying to track a golf swing from a side-on view. If you're facing the TV looking to one side or the other sure, but not side on looking AT the TV.

Remember, Kinect can sense depth too.

I just got my Kinect last week and love it. My daughter loves to play with me on the Adventures. I knocked her over playing the space/bubble one

IMO Move is just a Wii-mote.. and has better graphic games

presence06 said,
I just got my Kinect last week and love it. My daughter loves to play with me on the Adventures. I knocked her over playing the space/bubble one

IMO Move is just a Wii-mote.. and has better graphic games

Sad to say that I agree... wish I had gotten an Xbox instead of a PS3 back when I went console-shopping, but eh, what can you do? Still, not unexpected that Kinect did better... after all, it eliminates the need for holding something in your hand completely and will have a whole lot of better future considering controlling the game is not limited to what you're holding in your hands, but by the whole body.

presence06 said,
I just got my Kinect last week and love it. My daughter loves to play with me on the Adventures. I knocked her over playing the space/bubble one

IMO Move is just a Wii-mote.. and has better graphic games

Which is what I told everyone else. Did they believe me... Nope. On that note mine is collecting dust at the moment but mostly because I found out after the fact that I don't really have the room for it. I attempted to make space for it but requirements are requirements and I can only do so much for it.

shinji257 said,

Which is what I told everyone else. Did they believe me... Nope. On that note mine is collecting dust at the moment but mostly because I found out after the fact that I don't really have the room for it. I attempted to make space for it but requirements are requirements and I can only do so much for it.

Customer: Yea, hi im in the market for a bigger house.
Realtor: Having kids? Pay raise?
Customer: Nah my Kinect doesnt work where i live now.

the kinect is a government conspiracy to get people to buy houses!
/foil hat

ILikeTobacco said,

Customer: Yea, hi im in the market for a bigger house.
Realtor: Having kids? Pay raise?
Customer: Nah my Kinect doesnt work where i live now.

the kinect is a government conspiracy to get people to buy houses!
/foil hat


That's funny.


We have it setup in our apartment with about 7-8ft from the TV/Kinect to the couch. We don't have a problem with space. We might hit the patio door but that's not common.
sorry to hear you don't have the room. I really enjoy playing it though

ILikeTobacco said,

Customer: Yea, hi im in the market for a bigger house.
Realtor: Having kids? Pay raise?
Customer: Nah my Kinect doesnt work where i live now.

the kinect is a government conspiracy to get people to buy houses!
/foil hat

So funny, but true. I'd try out the Kinect if I had the room.

ILikeTobacco said,

Customer: Yea, hi im in the market for a bigger house.
Realtor: Having kids? Pay raise?
Customer: Nah my Kinect doesnt work where i live now.

the kinect is a government conspiracy to get people to buy houses!
/foil hat

LOL..

Metodi Mitov said,

Sad to say that I agree... wish I had gotten an Xbox instead of a PS3 back when I went console-shopping, but eh, what can you do? Still, not unexpected that Kinect did better... after all, it eliminates the need for holding something in your hand completely and will have a whole lot of better future considering controlling the game is not limited to what you're holding in your hands, but by the whole body.

As your funds allow, there is nothing wrong in owning both an XBox 360 and a PS3. Sometimes living outside of the religious like debate of the consoles is ok, and healthy.

They both have good qualities and offer enough different things it can be justified to own both for a lot of people.

I haven't found a good reason to buy 'Move' yet though, but if one fits me or my family, I woudn't hesitate to add it to our media room too.

I do love the Kinect for what it is now, and find myself being anxious for newer game titles and things like Netflix to get their Kinect controlled software out.

thenetavenger said,
Netflix to get their Kinect controlled software out.

+1 -- it'd be awesome to control Netflix without having to worry about the controller. I love ESPN3's controls.

AP707 said,
expected

well not exactly.. PS3 could still come back and win if they just release the move controller in Adult stores all over the world.. The would sell out if Ron Jeremy backed the move.

Lachlan said,

well not exactly.. PS3 could still come back and win if they just release the move controller in Adult stores all over the world.. The would sell out if Ron Jeremy backed the move.

You sir, are the ****.

Lachlan said,

well not exactly.. PS3 could still come back and win if they just release the move controller in Adult stores all over the world.. The would sell out if Ron Jeremy backed the move.


did you really expect a motion sensor inside a glowing dildo to outsell Kinect?

GrandTheftAuto said,

did you really expect a motion sensor inside a glowing dildo to outsell Kinect?

lmaoo this was my first thoughts also when i first saw the move last fall