Let's hear it: Do you want a Start button in Windows 8.1?

Could this be the future of Windows 8.1?

There has been much debate for and against the removal of the Start menu and button, allegedly also from Microsoft executives as well.

However, there can be no doubt that the missing Start button was one of the most controversial decisions Microsoft made for Windows 8. Research firm IDC said recently the lack of the button was something that Windows 8 users miss "consistently" along with being able to boot Windows 8 into desktop mode. More importantly, a number of third party software solutions have been released that add versions of the Start button back to the Windows 8 desktop, including RetroUIStartIsBackPokki and Start8.

Recently Intel CEO Paul Otellini also admitted it took him some time to learn Windows 8 and that there is an "adoptive curve" to using Windows 8 in desktop mode, which requires more training than Windows 7.

So, it's a simple question. Where do you stand on the issue, should Windows 8.1 include a Start button? You must be logged in to vote, you can register here to make your vote count!

Additionally, you can check out our Windows 8.1 (Blue) coverage here.

Poll

Do you want a start button in Windows 8.1?

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I want the ability to choose if I want a start button or not!

If I'm on a Windows RT, I don't want a start button because the touch screen works great!

But

I want a start button on a Windows 8 PC! Because touch does not work well on a desktop.

Yes.. a button and the classic Start Menu (that can be disabled if you don't want to use it)

A Start Button that opens the Start Screen is stupid… it's like using an adhesive bandage to cure a cancer

I only used my start menu in Windows Vista/7 to search for apps the same way I use the window button on my keyboard now; to search for apps or documents, etc. So my opinion is I don't see a need for it. I agree with what seems like a lot of others that it should be included as an option but not set as default. Just my two cents.

Someone who sees the light. All the majority of users want is a choice on their machines. We don't want to download a third party program. Why can't the "owners" of this operating system give us a choice when we do the initial install or a setting in the control panel? The Windows 8 loyalist claim its faster to work in the modern UI. Far from accurate in the real world.

I have to agree there. In the real world, you work in the Desktop, not the Metro UI. Any *Real* application is launched in the Desktop, and there will always be applications that will require the desktop. In fact, I am writing this from the desktop, with a telnet client open in another window on the desktop, and a mail client minimized to the desktop, and a text editor in a fourth window... on the desktop. No flipping back and forth from Start Screen to application to application, just one environment, four windows, no issues.

And yes, I use ClassicShell, and I go straight to the desktop... avoiding Metro as much as possible.

let's choose :
- we keep desktop and say goodbye to all these people who says that desktop era is finished and touch device is the future. So ok, let's keep desktop UI design with Windows, icons and start menu. But be constant, don't buy touch devices and keep your desktop as your main tool.
- Destop is leaving, touch devices are at the corner to be the main face of computing, so let the start menu go and embrace a new UI, or at least try to give a chance to change... and stop complain about it.

Yes. There are millions of us who do not have touch-centric devices and don't plan to trash perfectly good hardware and software to get the dubious advantages of the Metro UI. We are struggling to stay in business and remain profitable--needless hardware/software purchases along with retraining makes no sense.

Once again, this comment is used by the loyalist. 1995 and 2013 has nothing to with an Operating system that isn't very intuitive. 10 years from now BMW might bring back the Ford Pinto engine with enhancements that will blow away any other engine. What will you say then? "It's 2023, move one from this 1970's P.O.S."

The 1995 reference is to Windows 95 and how the first time the start button appeared. There are end less debates over the start button on neowin and it needs to stop. Don't understand why people cant press the Windows Key and then type in what they are after. I have to say Booting to desktop should be a feature!

I started using Windows 8 with the first community preview -- here is a brief recap:
CP1 - found it very frustrating and pretty much stopped using after a couple of weeks -- too many features not mature enough for steady use
CP2 - missed the start button and start menu -- installed Classic Shell and was very happy using it this way.
Release Candidate build -- same as with CP2 -- Classic Shell
Final Release -- same as above -- for about 2 months. Using on both a non-touch notebook and a touch tablet. After 2 months -- had to re-image the units and decided to try them Microsoft's way - so I did not install classic shell --- and have been using without any embellishments since.
It took a couple of weeks of minor frustration - but after this "getting acquainted" period I have not really missed the button, the menu, or any of the things I was certain that I could not do without.

To get a start button opening a menu would be a non sense for Microsoft... It would significate a Windows7.8 version... It's an entire negation of all the future Microsoft is trying to bring us... A start menu isn't in a touch scheme. On Windows7, I wasn't using start menu anymore (but only the explorer bar + taskbar).
The only thing people, who want this start menu back, will get is a more complicated Windows. It's a wrong problem, they just don't want to give a try to change.
Once it will be made and once touch devices will be the present of computing, this Windows will be too complicated for touch era devices, so these same people (who wanted this start menu) will be the first to complain about the fact that "Windows is too complicated" and they will leave Windows to others platforms anyway. Microsoft should not listen to them.

What does it say when even more than 1/2 of super computer literate users (like those here on Neowin) want the Start button back?

Gives this poll to the other 99% of generally computer illiterate users. Nevermind, since they're avoiding Windows 8 by the millions, you already have your answer.

I hope they do add in a start button, but only as an option that the user has to turn on. A start button will break the consistency of the interface and it will only confuse users who look for the start button everywhere else besides the desktop. It's obvious that many people love that old button, but I think the interface is more consistent without it. Give the option, but don't turn it on.

Well, there you have it, the majority has spoken. Now for the minority, go in a corner and go stick with emo Windows 8 RTM if you like it that much.

Needs a "Could go either way" option. I really don't care, as long as it suits the UX.

Technology isn't about these childish little attachments to paradigms. As long as things progress, I'm good.

no, the hot corners work just fine.

The only reason I would like it back is because it seems the only solution to get the naggers to shut up!

I don't need the button, I just want a search feature that doesn't take up the ENTIRETY OF THE SCREEN. What a stupid UI decision. Pop out from where the charms bar comes out when I press the windows key or something and let me search that way. I'm never in the modern UI so why when I'm doing a search would I want to suddenly be moved back to it? What a bad UI design. If you're going to move someone out of their "experience" you better have a good reason to do so.

I didn't vote, but people who choose not to learn how to use Windows 8 most likely want the start button.

Personally I have gotten used to not having it now, and its no problem whatsoever. But it really doesn't matter to me if they add it, they might as well add it to please as many customers as they can.

I don't agree with adding an option to bypass the metro screen though. Its not like its hard to click a desktop icon to go to the desktop.

The Weather Channel metro screen app is very nice.

a large screen with metro ui makes me eyes tired....

navigating with a trackball is a pain....

it'll be nice to have the option to use the trackball friendly Windows 7 UI.

Clicking in the bottom left corner is fine. I don't see how a start menu would improve anything except discoverability.

Personally, I'm sick of our computing being held back by people who are too dumb to learn new things. If you want a start menu, if you want a start button then stay on Windows 7!!

PsYcHoKiLLa said,
Personally, I'm sick of our computing being held back by people who are too dumb to learn new things. If you want a start menu, if you want a start button then stay on Windows 7!!

So people are complaining because they're dumb? Wow, that's great logic there. It can't possibly be the fact that the new UI doesn't bring with it any improvements over what it replaces but rather makes someone learn what they already know how to do and then do it less intuitively. How the hell is that progress in your technological part of the world?

History is littered with examples, especially in tech, where newer doesn't ultimately turn out to be better.

It's kinda cute that you think it is though.

No; the Windows button (2 of them) are just on my keyboard, over 18 years already. And the shutdown button is there too for easy access to shutdown.

No, the Start screen is the Start Menu and is better. It is also touch keyboard mouse friendly, the just start typing search works great.

Also OS utilities are all available right click lower left corner, so everything is just a click away

as of the time of wrting this its essentially 70-30 in favour of some type of start button.

I think its a fair representation (even though from personal experience is more like 95-5 split)

MS cannot continue to be pig headed, windows has a billion users, imagine if 700 million stick with xp and 7...
That a boatload of money being lost

MS didn't become a massive empire by being pigheaded, so im glad they are finally starting to listen.

I've been using Win 8 on my desktop sans touch interface, since it came out. I voted, "Yes, that opens a Start Menu.", because there should be options.

I personally don't mind the start screen. It's a neat idea, but it feels like a total kludge on a desktop machine with no touch interface. The charms bar is ok, but I find using the older interface to be easier since I've been using it for 20+ years. The charms bar context based search is annoying. Why not, just search and show me every context? I can use keywords to find what I want from that - vs having to click apps, then keyword search. Plus, the search frequently doesn't find desktop apps in the search results that I can find by scrolling to them in the app list.

I hope things get better.

No, there's no point. It's just wasted space on the taskbar if in fact it is just a Start button that takes you to the Start Screen. So long as the Start menu isn't back when it isnt needed.

What I do want is the boot to desktop feature, I love the Start Screen on my mobile devices but for my work computer, boot to desktop would work better than having to click on the desktop tile upon rebooting (which happens like once a week).

MidTxWRX said
.. boot to desktop would work better than having to click on the desktop tile upon rebooting (which happens like once a week).
You don't have to press the Desktop tile. You can also access the Desktop by pressing Win+D.

dtourond said,
You don't have to press the Desktop tile. You can also access the Desktop by pressing Win+D.

Regardless.

Hey I love Windows 8 lol I'm on your side.
I'm just saying that it'd be nice to have this as an option. If not a "Boot to Desktop" option, at least an option to launch a specific app (in this case Desktop app) at launch.
Wait... can we do this already?

Where's the EU when you need them? Hey EU, can you get these clowns to give us choice for a Desktop interface or a Tablet/Phone interface?

No, keep it as is.

but i would wish if microsoft fully integrate Control panel into metro + make launching game from metro return you again to start menu

I don't know what I want, I am irresolute. I not really like Metro, because I see no benefit for a desktop only user, but on the other side, the taskbar (with or without the startbutton and startmenu) is nearly 20 years old, it's time for something new.

Astra.Xtreme said
Here's a crazy thought.... Let the user decide...
Umm, that's why they allow you to download third-party apps to customize the experience.. I think there are a few free Start Menu alternatives available.

dtourond said,
Umm, that's why they allow you to download third-party apps to customize the experience.. I think there are a few free Start Menu alternatives available.

Well that's not really the point. On Win 7, there are about 100 options to customize the Start Menu and Taskbar. There's no reason why they can't offer the same sort of customization with Windows 8.

For almost everybody, simply having the option to boot to desktop and/or turn on a start button, will make them satisfied. Taking away major aspects of the OS that people have grown accustomed to for 20 years and then not offering a built-in option to bring them back has proven to be a terrible decision.

If I buy a car, I expect it has a radio. If it doesn't, and they tell me I can buy a replacement that does, I'd be a little pi*sed off. The customer knows best, not the designer.

Astra.Xtreme said
Well that's not really the point. On Win 7, there are about 100 options to customize the Start Menu and Taskbar.
Really... I have trouble seeing how there's 100 different options. Since you've been able to count up to a 100 different options, do you mind telling me these options you speak of?

Astra.Xtreme said
For almost everybody, simply having the option to boot to desktop and/or turn on a start button, will make them satisfied.
Well the typical user wants to open a program or a folder after they login, right? So, if all of your apps, and folders are pinned to the Start Screen, why would you want to waste time going to the desktop, when you can simply click on your program (modern or desktop) or folder from the Start Screen.

Astra.Xtreme said
Taking away major aspects of the OS that people have grown accustomed to for 20 years and then not offering a built-in option to bring them back has proven to be a terrible decision.
Actually, the Start Menu hasn't been around for 20 years. It's only been around for 17.

Astra.Xtreme said
The customer knows best, not the designer.
Not always actually. Most smartphones before the iPhone came out, had physical keyboards and other different buttons. After a while when the iPhone was released, OEM's slowly started changing their smartphones to all touch screens.

Now, was the customer right, or the designer. I think the designer was right because if the customer was actually right, then we'd still be using physical keyboards and buttons instead of 99% touch screens.

dtourond said,
Really... I have trouble seeing how there's 100 different options. Since you've been able to count up to a 100 different options, do you mind telling me these options you speak of?

Really? Are you that lazy that you can't try it yourself? Right click on the taskbar and go to Properties. There are easily 100+ options for customizing the start menu and taskbar. This isn't a secret or anything...

dtourond said,

Well the typical user wants to open a program or a folder after they login, right? So, if all of your apps, and folders are pinned to the Start Screen, why would you want to waste time going to the desktop, when you can simply click on your program (modern or desktop) or folder from the Start Screen.

Actually that's not what everybody wants...
When I start my PC, I launch multiple programs (Outlook, an IDE, internet browser, Spotify, etc) and then position them on my multiple monitors. Can you do that quickly and easily on 8? NOPE...

dtourond said,

Actually, the Start Menu hasn't been around for 20 years. It's only been around for 17.

Where did I say the start bar was around for 20 years?
I'm so sorry my point was that far over your head...

dtourond said,

Not always actually. Most smartphones before the iPhone came out, had physical keyboards and other different buttons. After a while when the iPhone was released, OEM's slowly started changing their smartphones to all touch screens.

Now, was the customer right, or the designer. I think the designer was right because if the customer was actually right, then we'd still be using physical keyboards and buttons instead of 99% touch screens.

Umm... what does this have to do with anything? There was never a major pushback when touchscreens on phones came out... Try to uphold relevance to the topic please...

Astra.Xtreme said
Really? Are you that lazy that you can't try it yourself? Right click on the taskbar and go to Properties. There are easily 100+ options for customizing the start menu and taskbar. This isn't a secret or anything...
Not really, but since you've said that there's easily 100+ options, I'd like for you to at least try and prove this.

I can't remember seeing "100+" options here, but okay.. http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/t.../22/04_23_13_Win7Start1.jpg

Astra.Xtreme said
Actually that's not what everybody wants...
When I start my PC, I launch multiple programs (Outlook, an IDE, internet browser, Spotify, etc) and then position them on my multiple monitors. Can you do that quickly and easily on 8? NOPE...
Actually, I can. I have all my programs on the Start Screen, so all I have to do is press Windows key and click on an app. And I've seen many people who actually want to open an app or folder after they login. I do a lot of teaching for people and that's usually what they do first thing after they login. I've yet to meet anybody who doesn't want to open a program or a folder (or anything for that matter) after they login.

Astra.Xtreme said
Where did I say the start bar was around for 20 years?
I'm so sorry my point was that far over your head...
You mean "Taskbar"..

Well, you actually didn't really point out what was 20 years old.

Here's what you said:

Astra.Xtreme said
Taking away major aspects of the OS that people have grown accustomed to for 20 years and then not offering a built-in option to bring them back has proven to be a terrible decision.
One question:

What "major aspects" were you talking about?

I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but the Start Menu was a pretty major part of the OS. And to be honest, Windows 95 did released the Start Menu, Windows Explorer, and the Taskbar (or in you're case, the "start bar"), which are all (at least) somewhat major parts in the OS. And guess what, those 3 things that were introduced in Windows 95, were not released 20 years ago. So, unless you were talking about something else, then any of the three things I mentioned are 17 years old, and not 20.

Astra.Xtreme said
Umm... what does this have to do with anything? There was never a major pushback when touchscreens on phones came out...
*Sigh*.. Really?

I've seen many people online and in person voice their opinions on touchscreens and why they hate using touch screen keyboards. The point I was trying to make to you (the part you didn't understand) was that, even though there was a fairly decent amount of people who were against the killing of physical keyboards, it was still a good thing to do. In another words, the customer isn't always right.

Edited by dtourond, Apr 30 2013, 5:43am :

dtourond said,
Not really, but since you've said that there's easily 100+ options, I'd like for you to at least try and prove this.

I can't remember seeing "100+" options here, but okay.. http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/t.../22/04_23_13_Win7Start1.jpg

Press the "customize" buttons on both tabs... There are easily 100+ options to choose from. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept for you...

dtourond said,

snipped remaining comment...

So you're going to nitpick about 20 years vs 17 years... I'm assuming the point was too far above your head that you have to result to nitpicking something unrelated to the point...

And regarding your off-topic comment about phone touch screens... people complain about everything. Did you miss the part where I said "major pushback"?... Was there major complaints about Win 8? Yes. Was there major complaints about phone touch screens? No, it was a major innovation that almost everybody welcomed and desired. There's nothing more that needs to be said about it since it's completely unrelated...

Astra.Xtreme said
Press the "customize" buttons on both tabs... There are easily 100+ options to choose from. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept for you...
I don't have access to a computer running Windows 7. I only have Lubuntu Linux Windows 8. So, if it's that hard for you to prove your point, then that's fine..

Astra.Xtreme said
I'm assuming the point was too far above your head that you have to result to nitpicking something unrelated to the point...
Actually, it didn't go over my head at all, but if that's what you prefer to think, then by all means, go ahead. Three major aspects of the OS: Start Menu, Taskbar (not start bar), and Windows Explorer, were all released 17 years ago. Unless you were talking about something else that was indeed released 20 years ago, then it'd be nice to know what you were talking about.

Astra.Xtreme said
And regarding your off-topic comment about phone touch screens... people complain about everything.
Of course. I mean, just look at Microsoft. People demand change, and when it happens people whine like children screaming "I'll never use Windows again!", or "I'm switching to OSX/Linux".

Maybe instead of trying to find excuses to hate something, they should instead try and learn how to use it. It really isn't that hard to do. A lot of it is greatly exaggerated.

Astra.Xtreme said
Did you miss the part where I said "major pushback"?...
Nope.

Astra.Xtreme said
Was there major complaints about phone touch screens?
No, but that's not the point. It wasn't touch screens that ᴘɪssᴇᴅ some people off. It was the fact that they removed the physical keyboards.

Astra.Xtreme said
There's nothing more that needs to be said about it since it's completely unrelated...
Actually, it wasn't unrelated. You just missed the point .. again.

Edited by dtourond, May 1 2013, 2:45am :

dtourond said,
I don't have access to a computer running Windows 7. I only have Lubuntu Linux Windows 8. So, if it's that hard for you to prove your point, then that's fine..

There's nothing for me to prove since it's common sense...
I still have no idea why you don't understand that, and why you want me to individually count those options. Since this is clearly too complicated for you, let me simplify it... Windows 7 has A LOT of customization options for the start menu and taskbar. Is that better, or do I need to use smaller words?

dtourond said,

Actually, it didn't go over my head at all, but if that's what you prefer to think, then by all means, go ahead. Three major aspects of the OS: Start Menu, Taskbar (not start bar), and Windows Explorer, were all released 17 years ago. Unless you were talking about something else that was indeed released 20 years ago, then it'd be nice to know what you were talking about.

:facepalm: Really? I'll cut this one off right there because this is getting really sad...

Astra.Xtreme said
I still have no idea why you don't understand that, and why you want me to individually count those options.
Because I don't have any computer that has Windows 7, and because of that, I can't do it myself. My last available computer I had (Mac Mini) now has Ubuntu 13.04.

If you're going to try and convince someone that what you're saying is right, it's really great if you can back it up with proof. I don't believe there's 100+ options. Maybe 40 - 50. And even when I had Windows 7, I never used the Start Menu. I always used programs such as ObjectDock.

Astra.Xtreme said
Since this is clearly too complicated for you, let me simplify it... Windows 7 has A LOT of customization options for the start menu and taskbar.
Meh, close enough, I guess..

Astra.Xtreme said
:facepalm: Really? I'll cut this one off right there because this is getting really sad...
Okay. I guess you really didn't understand that. And to think, you asked me if I needed "smaller words".

This is stupid. People need to get over this... it's not the end of the world.... Something needed to finally change, and so it did. If you want the start button and your precious start menu, go back to windows 7... Just like those who didn't want Aero stuck with XP for the longest time until they finally came to accept Windows 7.

People will get over it and finally forget about that old outdated start menu.... in due time. Unfortunately most of the people who currently complain and moan about how hard Windows 8 sucks are the ones who don't truly know how to use it....

Scroll down to the bottom left of any of your monitors.... when the start box comes up, right click... you have all your administrative tools right there, waiting for you, while still hidden from the average user who doesn't need to see them...

The app list? Right click your start screen and click all apps... same damn crap that used to be inside your start > all programs.... Luckily this is not going to be hidden from the morons anymore in 8.1 as it now sits at the bottom of the start screen.

All I really have to say is get over it. I've been in IT now since the days of DOS/Win3.1 and if I've learned anything at this point it's that everything in computers move forward and at an extremely rapid pace. Change is just something you have to get used to, especially if you're a power user. This is why the average idiots don't belong anywhere near a computer to begin with.

mDaWg said,
This is stupid. People need to get over this... it's not the end of the world.... Something needed to finally change, and so it did. If you want the start button and your precious start menu, go back to windows 7... Just like those who didn't want Aero stuck with XP for the longest time until they finally came to accept Windows 7.

People will get over it and finally forget about that old outdated start menu.... in due time. Unfortunately most of the people who currently complain and moan about how hard Windows 8 sucks are the ones who don't truly know how to use it....

Scroll down to the bottom left of any of your monitors.... when the start box comes up, right click... you have all your administrative tools right there, waiting for you, while still hidden from the average user who doesn't need to see them...

The app list? Right click your start screen and click all apps... same damn crap that used to be inside your start > all programs.... Luckily this is not going to be hidden from the morons anymore in 8.1 as it now sits at the bottom of the start screen.

All I really have to say is get over it. I've been in IT now since the days of DOS/Win3.1 and if I've learned anything at this point it's that everything in computers move forward and at an extremely rapid pace. Change is just something you have to get used to, especially if you're a power user. This is why the average idiots don't belong anywhere near a computer to begin with.

Preach on, DaWg. Preach on.

I'd like to see the return of the Start button that opens a Start Menu. I wouldn't mind having it disabled by default with the option to enable it.

Of course, it's highly unlikely that Microsoft will bring back the traditional Start button. It's more likely that they'll add a Start button that opens the Start Screen. Regardless, I'm quite happy with Start8.

Don't care. The start menu is terrible in all iterations of Windows, but the full screen start menu is even worse because it wastes so much space on large high res displays and is very disruptive.

LaXu said
.. the full screen start menu is even worse because it wastes so much space on large high res displays and is very disruptive.
How is it very disruptive, you go there, click on what you want, and it's gone. I don't see how it's a waste of space either, because all your apps are right there in front of you, for you to see.

Start button + Start menu = Windows 8.1 boot to desktop + no/hidden Metro UI
Start button + Start screen = Windows 8.1 for Touch devices. (Metro only)

simple solution.

I'd hope it doesn't come back, barely used the start menu since Vista, hardly see the start screen either. Superfluous button for me

I'm using Stardock's Start8 program to bypass the Start Screen and bring the traditional start menu back to the desktop, but I think the number of 3rd party replacements make it obvious that Microsoft made a mistake by forcing desktop users to a totally different interface. Until the MAJORITY of applications are Modern UI-based it doesn't make sense for users to constantly have to go back and forth between the start screen and the desktop.

Exactly my friend. I still don't understand why Microsoft cant ask these companies for the numbers so they can see the mistake they made. Why not run their own polls to find out what customers want. They'd be shocked! Or not! Something tells me they don't give a damn.

GraveDigger27 said
but I think the number of 3rd party replacements make it obvious that Microsoft made a mistake by forcing desktop users to a totally different interface.
There's always been a large amount of third-party apps to replace certain elements of the UI.

I used to have Objectdock because I hated the Start Menu. Just because there's plenty of alternatve software around, doesn't mean that Microsoft made a mistake.

Yes, and bring some sort of start menu back... even a half start screen or peek would be better. Also give us the ability to pin metro apps to the taskbar.

Windows 8 already has a start button, it's showing when you hover your mouse in the lower left corner, the place where the start button used to be from Windows 95 onwards. If you click it, you get to the start screen, easy as pie. Not sure why a visual button is needed, surely remembering where you need to place your mouse isn't that much to ask ?

Booting into the desktop is even more silly. What advantage is offered by booting directly into the desktop ? What are people going to do next, double click on an icon that sits on the desktop, or on the taskbar ? In that case, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that clicking the same icon on the startscreen will not only launch the desktop application, it takes you to the desktop in the same click !

There's the reason Windows 8 doesn't know what it want to be and is diagnosed with identity crisis syndrome. When you click a program on the start screen, it switches from this so called modern start screen and goes to the old school desktop that you hate. The operating system is confused with its own genealogy.

JHBrown said,
There's the reason Windows 8 doesn't know what it want to be and is diagnosed with identity crisis syndrome. When you click a program on the start screen, it switches from this so called modern start screen and goes to the old school desktop that you hate. The operating system is confused with its own genealogy.

Who says I hate the desktop, I simply don't need it to be booted automatically if all I am going to do is start programs, that I can do from the START screen.

The identity crisis is all in your head or so it seems.

JHBrown said,
There's the reason Windows 8 doesn't know what it want to be and is diagnosed with identity crisis syndrome. When you click a program on the start screen, it switches from this so called modern start screen and goes to the old school desktop that you hate. The operating system is confused with its own genealogy.

I dont think it's confused. I think developers choose to make either a classic desktop application or a Windows Store App.

They're very different. You wouldnt see something like Adobe Creative Suite released as an app, they're not designed for that and are not touch friendly (and shouldn't be).

We could run polls like this at every big box store, on every Internet retailer site like Amazon, and the results will be the same. The majority of users, not Neowin Windows 8 fans, want the start menu back. Microsoft is blatantly ignoring the majority and its biting them in the a s s.

There is absolutely no need for a start button which opens the start screen, we already have the hot corners which take you there. A lot easier to just throw the mouse towards the bottom left and click than actually try to aim for a button. What is needed is a better tutorial when first loading windows 8. The current tutorial is useless. The majority of issues people have with windows 8 could be resolved with a better and more complete tutorial.

The thing is that once you know where to put your mouse, there is no further issue with discoverability. The problem is that people want to launch a program from the desktop without leaving it. The right click in the bottom left corner works great for finding control panel, system settings etc. So this stuff in a 'start menu' would be redundant.

What is needed is an 'All apps quick launcher menu' which should be a little button somewhere on the taskbar, which would open up a pop out from the left with the list of all the apps installed. They are bringing in an all apps search from within the desktop with windows 8.1 which will be a great step forward. However a lot of people still do not search for apps and would prefer a nice compact list of apps rather than the current full screen app list.

the start menu is useless in a tablet and since windows 8 is a tablet OS, it doesn't make any sense to have the useless start menu come back. if anything, they need to remove the desktop shell for good as it is useless on a touch device. you should still be able to run x86 ware when you want to but it should be solely a backwards compatibility option.

furthermore, people wanting to remain with a desktop only OS, should be given an option to buy windows server 2012 at some SKU that would be priced accordingly to individual users and offer only the functionality they got from windows 7 client.

installing server was standard practice more than a decade ago when windows 2K was an all time favorite before the arrival of windows xp.

No you have it wrong. Windows 8 is not only for a tablet. Microsofts goal was to make everything work together, Windows Phone, Surface, Windows 8. Yes it's useless on a tablet, but your wrong to think its useless on a desktop. You want them to remove the desktop completely? LOL, you must want them to loose most of their customers.

eiffel_g said,
I'm annoyed by the charms bar and hidden corners. So YES, the comeback of start button is welcome, whatever it opens.

Try going to the down-left corner, BAM start button..

But here's the key, you had to pay for a program to get that functionality. We want a choice and a free choice from the makers of the operating system.

You have one start button hidden in the down-left corner. There is one hidden on the side in your charms bar. You've got 1 or 2 on your keyboard.

Why should the start button be visible for it to work as it is working right now?
Why can't people accept that you already have more start buttons than Windows 7 had.

Because we don't need a freaking full screen start page. Why does Microsoft insist on the full screen ugliness. Most of the apps in the marketplace waste space on my 27inch IPS monitor. It's not needed.

JHBrown said,
Because we don't need a freaking full screen start page. Why does Microsoft insist on the full screen ugliness. Most of the apps in the marketplace waste space on my 27inch IPS monitor. It's not needed.

Then stick to Windows 7?

BajiRav said,

Then stick to Windows 7?
Is that all you Windows 8 fans can say. Majority rules and the majority is speaking. Windows 8 GUI is a failure.

JHBrown said,
Is that all you Windows 8 fans can say. Majority rules and the majority is speaking. Windows 8 GUI is a failure.

Well majority is on Windows 7 (or XP?) so just stay there.

BajiRav said,

Well majority is on Windows 7 (or XP?) so just stay there.

I struggle to understand this "take it or leave" approach; is it so difficult to understand that things can be improved and tailored, offering choices, to satisfy a bigger percentage of users?

JHBrown said,
Is that all you Windows 8 fans can say. Majority rules and the majority is speaking. Windows 8 GUI is a failure.

And that's what all you Windows 7 fans can say..

And for the record the Windows 8 GUI works just fine for me, even on my 24 inch screen. So it's not a total failure.

JHBrown said,
Because we don't need a freaking full screen start page. Why does Microsoft insist on the full screen ugliness. Most of the apps in the marketplace waste space on my 27inch IPS monitor. It's not needed.

This article is about a start button not the start screen. And i doubt the start button will take up your whole 27inch with irrelevant IPS info.

Fritzly said,

I struggle to understand this "take it or leave" approach; is it so difficult to understand that things can be improved and tailored, offering choices, to satisfy a bigger percentage of users?

I usually don't but this guy is acting like a moron, trolling people who prefer current way of things in Windows 8 in multiple places.

BajiRav said,

Well majority is on Windows 7 (or XP?) so just stay there.

Shouldn't that tell you something?

And Windows 8 has some good improvements regarding performance. It just sucks that one is being forced to use a horrible UI to gain access to such benefits.

srprimeaux said,

Shouldn't that tell you something?

And Windows 8 has some good improvements regarding performance. It just sucks that one is being forced to use a horrible UI to gain access to such benefits.


tell me what? that XP is a better OS than 7 because it has such a large market share after 3.5 years since 7 shipped?

BajiRav said,

tell me what? that XP is a better OS than 7 because it has such a large market share after 3.5 years since 7 shipped?

That people are sticking with XP or 7 and not moving to the identity crisis known as 8.

Yes with a start menu. This forum with its Windows 8 fans are a minority. Most people think Windows 8 sucks with its identity crisis.

A start button that opens the start screen. Not a traditional start menu. I wish that people would actually try to migrate away from the desktop so we can actually start having a unified platform across multiple devices.

I too would like that platform, but don't you think that with so much opposition to the start screen, it is not that solution? Start menu might not be the solution, but start screen isn't either.

ctrl_alt_delete said,
A start button that opens the start screen. Not a traditional start menu. I wish that people would actually try to migrate away from the desktop so we can actually start having a unified platform across multiple devices.

Why would I want a mobile OS on my PC that can multitask and it far more powerful than a tablet or phone?

I think this should go on the main page, replacing the poll on the side for maximum exposure. It'll be curious to see the results in a week (or however long polls stay on the side). Either way, that should send a message to MS.

(Desktop user who doesn't want a touch screen)

I don't care if its a start menu, just want some kind of program launcher that exists in the desktop environment. plus the ability to remove all the irrelevant touch oriented full screen apps

A start button that takes me to the start screen will be pointless. I want a stat button that gives me the start menu. Also I wish there was an option for aero glass transparency and other eye candy from windows 7. The desktop on windows 8 looks like a step backwards. All in an effort to make windows tablet friendly by removing choices.

No need for the Start button- but if they need to put one, then a start button to go to the start screen. But the corners are fine.

They should create a better video to help new users.

Only if it opens the start menu optionally. Else i don't wan't it back as some might end up having 2 of them there, one being for starisback or something similar...

I dont know why people who like the classic Start Menu bitch about those who dont, and vise versa. With a choice to use what you prefer, should matter to anyone. Dont like the new/old method...choose the other one.

Putting the start button won't solve all the problems, the UI is still ugly, they have to make it similar to the beta, the metro apps are still full screen, they should not be such on a desktop, the start screen cannot be scrolled with the mouse as if you are scrolling it with the had, they should be the same, etc.

Windows 8 was designed to make people hate the mouse and use the touch screen, the mental idiot at Microsoft who did that MUST BE FIRED, OR BALLMER MUST GO HOME

Windows sales were flat this quarter except the initial promotion, and the windows sales outlook is not good, and Microsoft did not say how many licenses were sold after the initial 60 milion, and that is not good sign at all.

Stupid people have to be fired from Microsoft, to avoid future stupid ideas like this.

So if Microsoft made Start Button optional (would satisfy people who voted 'No') with choice of bringing 'Start Menu' or 'Start Screen' then it would satisfy 100% of customers.

A start button definatly, press you press it in takes you to the start screen. The idea of having to hover over to get anything to appear is weird. Also there should be a boot to desktop for power users although maybe have it turned off by default. The implementation is currently botched.

I'd be happy with a Start button that mirrored the function of the "Win" key on new keyboards (i.e., opening the Start Screen). Or right-click on it and it opens a user-customized menu of apps to launch. Something simple.

But what I REALLY want is to see Microsoft lead the way in converting its flagship apps to the "Metro" style (they really DO need a consistent name for that UI... Modern, whatever...).

Let's see all of Office 365 demonstrate how clean and powerful and efficient the Metro UI can be for serious applications that maintain all of the functionality (and then some!) of the Desktop counterparts. We'll never see a migration to the Metro UI from other big developers without Microsoft going first. But I can see real value to Word, Excel, etc. paving the way for Photoshop and other apps. Without this migration, there won't be a forward-moving Windows 9 one day.

Kills the entire purpose of having a Metro UI. Microsoft should instead focus on the start screen and gradually get rid of the desktop entirely rather than putting a start button in desktop. Had the Metro UI been designed properly around user experience in the first place the need for desktop and start button would have never emerged.
Come on Microsoft, get your **** together.

amnesia- said,
No. People should stop living in the past.
These comments never make sense. Just because something is shiny and new does not make it the future. Under the hood it's still an ugly pile of identity crisis ****.

amnesia- said,
No. People should stop living in the past.

I bet that's what Coca Cola thought too when they introduced New Coke.
Or when dr. August introduced the Dvorak keyboard.
Or when Apple announced Thunderbolt.
Or when Microsoft introduced the Start Screen.

Even if a new product IS better, doesn't mean people will readily accept/adopt it.
Case in point, the numerous case studies of the failures of New Coke.

NOOOOO... And here is why.

LAZY PROGRAMERS.

Like with any industry, people must grow and change with their industry. Due to Microsoft support backward compatibility to like Win95 day, our programmers have been crazy lazy.

Windows NT - Hardware Compatibility, Driver support. Programming Issues.
Windows Me - Major Problem, Drivers support. Programming Issues.
Windows Vista - Drivers and High Memory usage applications. - Programming Issues.
Windows 8 - Lack of Metro Apps. Programming.

We are in a HIGH SPEED Industry. They have to be High Speed too.

Why are programmers writing for Android - BECAUSE its OLD Code. they do not have to learn anything New. The Quality and presentation of most apps, is CRAP.

Take your Top 10 Apps on Mobile Devices, WP8 looks better and cleaner then iOS or Android in 7 out of 10 cases.

I encourage everyone to go watch Danny Devito's movie "Other Peoples Money" - THE START BUTTON is the Buggy Whip.

Start Button - Needs to DIE.

MikadoWu said,

Why are programmers writing for Android - BECAUSE its OLD Code. they do not have to learn anything New. The Quality and presentation of most apps, is CRAP.

I strongly disagree, there are lot of quality apps. You didn't use seriously android, or doing propaganda in favor of Microsoft.

The option: "I don't care" is missing.
Give me the option to forget the start screen, and I can forget the lack of start menu.

Yes, if for no other reason, it looks good and already a habit going there. Quicker and easier to target that activating then clicking the Start Charm. Don't want to have to start using Keyboard win key. It's a good option. Why not?

I was expecting this poll to have answers of "Yes, always show it", "Yes, but make it an option", and "No".

The way the poll was setup, it's really also asking "Do you want a start menu", which is a different topic entirely.

This poll's structure made me sad.

The post is titled: "Lets hear it: Do you want a Start button in Windows 8.1?" That question can be asked, with the answers that I provided, without the necessity of also asking "what should it do."

And I'm saying that it's unfortunate it wasn't done that way.

oh god lol.. OK I'll bite.. so the only two options that a start button will ever do if added back confuses everyone and is wrongly presented?

You're also a bit confused, because there is already a start button in windows 8, although it's hidden until activated by a hot corner. If you prefer that behavior then select "No."

Not hard is it?

My "answer" would be to allow the user to choose whether to "always show" a start button, which when clicked, would take the user to the Start Screen.

My point remains that the question's answers could have been listed without also trying to determine the voter's opinion on what the Start Button should do.

That's all. It is not hard.

I wasn't trying to create confusion or tension. Sorry if my response stressed you.

I did originally want the start menu back, but then I realised that the biggest problem with windows 8 for me is that the metro and desktop environments are so completely different that it feels like you're using two computers and it's not a seamless experience. So here's my idea:

1) Not hot corners or charms bar or start button
2) The new start screen replaces the traditional desktop with icons. There is still a taskbar present though
3) The new start screen/desktop is an app and can be replaced with a custom one like android launchers.
4) All programs and metro apps are in windows.

I'd like to have at least 2 separated basic modes: tablet mode and PC mode. One more option: maybe hybrid mode in which you can mix between the two basic modes.

I don't see the point of the Start Button to open the Start Screen - It's already there in the Charms Bar.

I have Windows 8 on my work PC (non-touchscreen) without Start8 and it does get quite cumbersome having to either click the botton left most single pixel or activating the charms bar, which is a nightmare to activate using a mouse at times. I find it pops up when I don't want it to and doesn't pop up when I do!

Even when you get to the Start Screen, unless your apps are pinned, you have to right click, All Apps, then scroll to find your app. It just isn't desktop friendly. Also, even if your apps are pinned, you usually have to scroll past the Metro, sorry, Modern UI apps in order to get to them. As yet, I have found no reason to use a Modern UI app on either my work or home PC. Both are solely for desktop use with keyboard and mouse.

I voted for 'Yes, that opens a start screen', even though I hate the start screen and use StartIsBack.

Honestly, I like the idea of the start screen. It's not like you can still concentrate on your work while you're navigating through the start menu for something. It makes perfect sense to have a fullscreen, well-organised launcher.

What I don't like is how it's executed. The metro environment is completely different to the Explorer environment. Right click no longer brings up a context menu, scrolling vertically on the mouse moves the list left to right, and the whole metro shell just looks nothing like desktop Windows. I hate that I'm jarred between two completely different interfaces. If they made a full screen launcher that feels like it is part of the existing Windows Explorer interface then I would be all for it. At the moment I feel like it's just a tablet-UI jammed in my face.

Actually the hidden Start button doesn't bother me.. I'd happily keep it just the way it is in exchange for a normal start menu

But either way I voted for option #2 ("Yes, that opens a Start Menu") - I'm a luddite / whiner / whatever

yep. At least have an option to either
A) have a start button which opens the start screen
B) have a start button which opens the start menu
C) hide the start button and use the newer hot corners

Would make everyone happy because they would be able to choose how they want to interact with the Windows environment. This couldn't be that hard for Microsoft to include.

Not really.......

And how is this going to be implemented?

Settings> Start button visible Y/N?
Settings: Press start button will show start menu Y/N?
Settings: Press start button will show start screen Y/N?

Nice to confuse the confused even more.....

And what about right clcking, should that be changed too???

oh.... and to the people who voted option A, it already does that.......

As optionally to enable/disable.
- StartButton.
- Boot-to-Desktop.
For those of you crying for 'no', they can be disabled by default, if that helps you not to ever use them.

C#Rocks said,
Give them an option to stop the whiners. 8.1 is shaping up really nice

Whiners - or, judging by the poll, the MAJORITY OF USERS.

MikadoWu said,
Poll say 52% and many people voted yes, to shut up the rest of the people. I would believe that actual number is smaller.

50.9% + 12.9% so... 63.8% currently by my maths. And why would people vote 'yes' just to 'shut up the rest of the people' - it's a poll, where people can express their choice freely. Just because a Neowin poll gives one option or another, doesn't actually mean anything is going to change.

MikadoWu said,
Poll say 52% and many people voted yes, to shut up the rest of the people. I would believe that actual number is smaller.

And your beliefs are based on?......

Don't care. Metro on the desktop is a supercharged, fullscreen Start Menu. If the whiners need the fiddly thing in the corner to feel better about themselves, why not.

I really don't think this is a big concern, the start screen is obviously a step up from the start menu but it needs to be less rigid. More tile sizes, more color scheme options, what about a live tile that takes up a whole column and shows loads of live information. I would like a twitter app where I can see 5-10 of the latest tweets right on the start screen. Improve the UI on the default microsoft apps, especially the store. The modern interface is a good idea but it needs a lot of polish.

65% of people that voted here do not agree with you. You must understand something: people like different things and people have different needs. The best & wise thing to do is to offer OPTIONS and not force things like in communism. Everyone would be happy.

Because keeping useless legacy junk in the OS creates bloat. Which makes the OS heavier...
While they are trying to get rid of all the junk in the OS and make it shine! Win8 runs faster then Win7 in many occasions, and this isnt only because the kernel is faster and the OS' underlying techs have been improved. It is also because they can finally start getting rid of old crap that's been part of Windows ever since the frigging 80s. Its ancient! Let's move forward.
Want to bloat up your own install... Happy thing there's google!

Windows 8 adds a lot more features than it removes. It has two complete and separate sets of runtime APIs (Win32 + RT)! Somehow, it still manages to be much faster than its predecessors. Software performance has very little to do with its complexity. Try installing StartIsBack (which merely enables code already present in Windows 8) and see if it makes any performance difference on your system (hint: it won't).

The "code bloat" argument is as moot as all the others.

Shadowzz said,
Because keeping useless legacy junk in the OS creates bloat.

Are you worried about an extra megabyte of RAM or hard drive space too?

"Code bloat" hasn't been an issue in computing in over a decade.

A boot to desktop mode would be far more useful (for us non-touch screen users).

I hardly ever use the start menu so that part is a non-issue.. as long as the Windows key still lets us type-to-search for programs I'm good!

I actually don't mind what the put in it as long as it's usable. Win8 as it is at the moment in my opinion is unusable, especially that nasty Metro interface...

Yes, I want a start button back, and I also want it to be customizable to be 3 things:
Start Screen
Start Menu
Search - Minimalist search in the bottom left, like the windows 7 start menu but without any other crap. Because to be honest, it's not like I ever open a single thing by any other method.

So long as there's a shortcut then yeah that's going to be lovely! Went through articles in the wrong order to have considered that in my post ^^

(I only say about the shortcut in case they expect us to go via the charms menu for it, as otherwise I'll just hit the win key and accept the unnecessary screen appearance =P)

ZipZapRap said,
Traditional... another way of saying afraid of moving forward.
Conservatives are always fond of the past
Never understood comments like this. Not every new feature is a step forward. So BMW uses a pinto engine that changes it's own oil and has a touch interface so that you can schedule an appointment with the dealership while under the hood. Who the hell wants those features? Same with Microsoft and their new bull shat GUI.

ZipZapRap said,
Traditional... another way of saying afraid of moving forward.
Conservatives are always fond of the past

The issue is not "moving forward" but what you will find when you do it...

The fact that you like a new feature or design in Windows 8 does not make you any smarter at all and not even smarter than the folks who don't agree with you.

Why would you NOT want it?
If you have both, you can use both.

I bought Start8 because it meant I could carry on using Windows the way I prefer and faster (keyboard use, not mouse or touch screens).

The Start screen works great with keyboard and theres loads of new keyboard shortcuts for Charms... Maybe if you actually tried using it you'll see this. And the Start screen is faster than the Start menu at most tasks.

Win key + X or right clikcing in the bottom left corner will also bring up a new menu that contains more shortcuts than the Start menu did. If you actually use Win 8 how it's intended it's faster at most things.

But its different!! So its wrong!!!
Good god the amount of Windows hatred by people who haven't actually used the OS properly is insane. I personally think Microsoft should be headstrong, not give back a start button (and especially not the menu). Please keep the desktop how it is! Don't backport the silly backwards compatibility for the obvious minority who don't even use your OS!
Just focus on improving the new things please, no point in bringing back old relics because a few can't handle change. If the internet was as popular in the 90s as it was now, Windows 95 would've gotten the same ridiculous treatment by those who favor CLI.

W32.Backdoor.KillAV.E said,
The Start screen works great with keyboard and theres loads of new keyboard shortcuts for Charms... Maybe if you actually tried using it you'll see this. And the Start screen is faster than the Start menu at most tasks.

Win key + X or right clikcing in the bottom left corner will also bring up a new menu that contains more shortcuts than the Start menu did. If you actually use Win 8 how it's intended it's faster at most things.


If you are so much in love with keyboard shortcuts I guess you also hate the Ribbon in Office because people were saying the same thing: why using the Ribbon when I have the keyboard shortcuts? Personally I do not like the idea to go back to the paradigm of memorizing shortcuts when I can use visual clues but to each his own, let people have choices. And this is the reason why I do not need to label someone with a different opinion a hater or a whiner.

No he isnt, the start screen is actually quite usefull.
Problem is the approach Microsoft took and now the haters are following. They see it as a new start menu. While its much better to see it as a new desktop! No more tiny randomly sized cluttered icons over a background image/color. But simple obvious square tiles with the possibility of life information. The 'icon' is not just an 'icon' anymore, it also became a widget. And more!
Its nothing more then a unification of several different parts of Windows 7... the Desktop, Start Menu and Desktop widgets all in one....
It's really useable, I find myself just scrolling and clicking the tile allot more often then i used the desktop icons on Win7. Win7 with its big fugly cluttered start menu (really, keep an install for a few years with tons of games, software and tools installed, used, tested... and its an abomination to use!) I only did winkey+ start typing + enter. I never bothered to open Programs or anything else. Even for shutdown I started tying the shutdown command as it took untill SP1 before the default power options button become shutdown instead of hybernate/sleep.

But hey, people seem to really hate this new approach, instead of seeing what it actually is, and that its barely anything different from previous Windows' except its combined instead of seperate.

Shadowzz said,
...Win7 with its big fugly cluttered start menu (really, keep an install for a few years with tons of games, software and tools installed, used, tested... and its an abomination to use!).....

So you're saying that the Start Screen will never get cluttered with pages and pages of squares all flipping and flinging stuff at you that you have to scroll through 8+ pages to find the one tile you need? That is more efficient than having an entire desktop covered in icons on one screen?

Having a Start button would be a waste of space. You would just do exactly what you do now - click in the bottom right corner. So why have a pointless button taking up taskbar space that can be used for pinning programs.

you never had the power button in plain view in previous windows. You always had to press the start button but with the latest update you have the power button once you bring up the charms bar so I don't see any difference here.

I am not interested in keeping things I didn't have. As for waste of space - that's for me to decide. 1080p/23" and up screens give plenty of space to waste as I please. Alas, tablet crowd has taken over.

im on those resolutions and I'm glad there is much less wasted screenspace on the desktop. The borders are a bit thinner then they where on Win7, the ugly rounded corners are gone. The task bar is MUCH much cleaner and smoother.
I have plenty of screen estate but why make this all cluttered when you can keep the functionality but hide it by hot corners. Its a small step to get used to it. Took me ~2 weeks before I started liking the new additions to the desktop.
I can keep more programs in my task bar without it being cluttered. few programs more then i could with Win7, i still use the 'classic' style of flat width icons + titlebar text instead of just the icon. Same as I did on Win7, except there is more taskbar space thanks to a cleaner clock/notification/language area and the no fugly start button.

lcg said,
No. I can't see any need for one. I don't have any problems with hot corners.

You're not one of the 99% of average/neophyte Windows consumer and business desktop users.

Actually those 99% of average windows consumers wouldn't have a problem because they simply need to travel to the bottom corner and click to get to the start screen. This was the standard behaviour since god knows which version of Windows. The only people who have a problem, and I know because I experience it so often is when you're using the desktop remotely in windowed mode and you need to explicitly find the corner to open the start screen.

georgevella said,
Actually those 99% of average windows consumers wouldn't have a problem because they simply need to travel to the bottom corner and click to get to the start screen. This was the standard behaviour since god knows which version of Windows. The only people who have a problem, and I know because I experience it so often is when you're using the desktop remotely in windowed mode and you need to explicitly find the corner to open the start screen.

Try to hit the magic, hidden spot with a pen....

georgevella said,
The only people who have a problem, and I know because I experience it so often is when you're using the desktop remotely in windowed mode and you need to explicitly find the corner to open the start screen.

This. I'm constantly running RDP in windowed mode, and I swear to god the area you're supposed to click to bring up the Start screen has been reduced to 4x4 pixels, if that. "Normally", I'd just hit the Windows key, but windowed RDP sessions don't see the keystroke as it gets intercepted by the local machine.

georgevella said,
Actually those 99% of average windows consumers wouldn't have a problem because they simply need to travel to the bottom corner and click to get to the start screen.

No. It's an INVISIBLE control so 99% of home and business desktop users won't even know, or remember, or even THINK of doing something like this.

There should ALWAYS be a visible master control in a GRAPHIC user interface. That's just simple best practices established over the past three decades.

Having the option to auto-hide this (like we can with the taskbar under W7) or having an alternate control (like all versions of Windows prior to W8) is fine too, but MS really screwed the pooch with their core, mostly computer illiterate, market with this start screen on the desktop.

Hell, even if those gadget came on screen upon clicking any blank space on the start screen would have at least make 99% of users only confused for one random mouse click.

But MS didn't listen to any of the feedback they got since BEFORE W8 was shown in alpha/beta and so they and the entire PC community has paid the price.

_dandy_ said,
"Normally", I'd just hit the Windows key, but windowed RDP sessions don't see the keystroke as it gets intercepted by the local machine.

something is effed in your rdp application. Unless you're using the windows 8 rdp app.
Then, you bring up the context menu and remote keystrokes are there.
As a server admin myself, I do hate the hotcorners via an always visible button.
I do however like the right click you get from the Win8 hotcorner

excalpius said,

No. It's an INVISIBLE control so 99% of home and business desktop users won't even know, or remember, or even THINK of doing something like this.

There should ALWAYS be a visible master control in a GRAPHIC user interface. That's just simple best practices established over the past three decades.


I read that as: "99%" of home and business desktop users are dumb and unable to learn. Yeah the hotspots are not as self-evident as a space-consuming start button but that's why you get a tutorial screen the first time you set up your machine / windows 8 installation that goes through all the new UI elements.

deadonthefloor said,

something is effed in your rdp application. Unless you're using the windows 8 rdp app.
Then, you bring up the context menu and remote keystrokes are there.
As a server admin myself, I do hate the hotcorners via an always visible button.
I do however like the right click you get from the Win8 hotcorner

I'm not using anything that's not already part of Windows. What context menu are you talking about?

I need ability to manage Start screen as any other app, especially open it in snapped and half screened views. I don't need separate start button. Classic menu would be redundant.

If you bend over to the noisy minority all the time, you'll end up something that's a load of rubbish. Sometimes the silent majority should be heard, not noisy fools like dvb2000.

CAP-Team said,
Sure bring it back. I don't mind. If people wat it back, bring it back but stop whining.

really! i can't believe how many people are against a choice of what to use. it's like they're offended that they can't make people use/like the start screen.

Buttus said,
really! i can't believe how many people are against a choice of what to use. it's like they're offended that they can't make people use/like the start screen.

The problem is that most of us know exactly what Microsoft are like, they won't give people a choice of using a start button, start menu and boot to desktop it'll be one or the other not a choice of either.

Edited by neo158, Apr 22 2013, 4:59pm :

stop the whining ?
exactly it works both ways though.
there is plenty of people provoking the so called windows 8 haters at every turn..

Same here, I understand the arguments against the Start Screen but Windows has to move on or get left behind. I don't mind them bringing the Start Button, Start Menu and booting to the desktop as long as it's an option and isn't forced on users.

All this Poll shows is that 51.7% of this sites members can't get used to new ways of doing things, granted in a business environment it would probably be useful for the sake of the users but for home users it should be left as it is.

Edited by neo158, Apr 22 2013, 11:42am :

I like Metro & Windows 8, but I think Microsoft would've been wise to make the Start Button, Start Menu & boot to desktop an option (that could be toggled on/off) from the beginning.

They had to know there'd be blowback, but they must've thought they could weather it. Clearly, they could not. Metro is great on a tablet, but for desktop "power users"... it just kind of gets in the way... which caused a backlash.

Anyway, I agree that users should not be able to disable Metro altogether. Metro is the future... but some people need to be nudged along gently, instead of dragged kicking and screaming... lol

The problem is that the decision came from upper management in Microsoft and we all know what happens when they make decisions, don't we?

I really hope that these are options for those who want to use them, but I'm worried that the start button and boot to desktop won't be options and will be enabled with no way to switch them off.

Some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming, if Microsoft hadn't dropped support for Windows 98 from their products then people wouldn't have moved to XP.

DaveBG said,
Pal, moving on means ADDING features not REMOVING them...

moving on means actually means moving on. as in letting the past go.

and if windows evolved by adding features without replacing or removing existing ones, it would be a huge mess compared to what we have in windows 8

DaveBG said,
Pal, moving on means ADDING features not REMOVING them...

I totally agree, why did they remove crank starters on cars, I mean sure we have electric starters now but it they wanted to move on they should have left the old crank start on!

newyorkcitymale said,
They had to know there'd be blowback, but they must've thought they could weather it. Clearly, they could not.

Even hardware manufacturers are complaining about Windows 8, as it suppresses sales.

neo158 said,
Same here, I understand the arguments against the Start Screen but Windows has to move on or get left behind. I don't mind them bringing the Start Button, Start Menu and booting to the desktop as long as it's an option and isn't forced on users.

All this Poll shows is that 51.7% of this sites members can't get used to new ways of doing things, granted in a business environment it would probably be useful for the sake of the users but for home users it should be left as it is.

Changing things because they are worried about getting left behind is not a valid excuse for breaking what once worked.

and your facts about how people couldn't get used to using Windows 8 is BS.
read this buddy..
http://www.zdnet.com/from-wind...hy-i-downgraded-7000006922/
this is one example of many people saying the same thing.
The problem is you people are not listening to the so called haters.
you guys simply don't hear what we say.. your deaf !

Considering I've already paid for Start8...not really, but I shouldn't have had to pay for this in the first place. I would imagine more businesses would consider Windows 8 if it had a start button/menu AND a boot to desktop feature.

Honestly, the Start Screen in Windows 8 is useless (IMO) if you don't have a touchscreen display.

Elessar said,

Honestly, the Start Screen in Windows 8 is useless (IMO) if you don't have a touchscreen display.

Agreed, it really sucks. A simple start button fixes it.

I wouldn't say that Metro is "useless on a desktop." I use it on a desktop every day and I like it. With that said, Metro is GREAT on a tablet. And when compared to iOS or Android on a tablet, I think Metro blows them away. The only real handicap is the lack of apps... but the apps will only come if Microsoft presses forward with Metro... which I hope it does.

On the other hand... the desktop without the Start Button & Start Menu is just... hobbled. So long as they're going to offer a desktop UI, they need to offer the Start Button & Menu in some form. My guess is that they're going to offer a Metro-fied version of the "App Menu" as the default (something like the current "All Apps" view in Metro), but that the classic Start Menu will be a second option. If the Metro-style "App Menu" is better, I think most people will use it. If it's not, then they won't.

Elessar said
Honestly, the Start Screen in Windows 8 is useless (IMO) if you don't have a touchscreen display.
I don't know if it's useless? I mean, once you customize it to have everything you want inside it, I can't see how that would still make it uesless.

I personally like the idea of having everything in full screen, right there where I can see. No little menu's & folders.

actually with Start8 as example I find it annoying and even more confusing to have Start button that triggers old start menu while also having ways to trigger new start screen. So I think Start button (being an option) maybe should be put back by default on non-touchscreen devices, but just as a shortcut to Start screen.

dtourond
That is fine for you but why force it on ALL of us ?
A full screen or almost full screen menu is not acceptable for me because it would interfere with my custom made OSD for hardware monitoring. But once again i gotta think, thanks for assuming how we all use our pc's..

AND
Booting straight to desktop is a requirement for many other programs also.
Just because some people have nothing happening on start up shouldn't mean anything.. some of us do and what MS is doing is breaking a ton of compatibility with things and then many of you are defending it with pure ignorance. insulting, misinformed people screaming "your doing it wrong"

spoetnik said
Booting straight to desktop is a requirement for many other programs also.
That depends on what program you're using. I remember a program I had once that would start after logging in, and because it started, Windows switched to the desktop on it's own.

So long as they have a separate desktop UI, they should offer the option to toggle on the Start Button, Start Menu, Task Bar, and boot to desktop. Why antagonize some of their most devoted consumers?

Personally, I think a better solution would be to unify the desktop & Metro UIs into one harmonious beast... but clearly that's not going to happen until Windows 9 or 10. I don't, however, think they should give users the option to disable Metro altogether. I mean, if someone wants to go that far, then they should just stick with Windows 7.

not having a start menu will hurt the dumb users most, there are 10 years of help files out there that say "click on the start button in the lower left corner..."
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!

Deogratias Saidi said,
no

Give them then start button+menu and be done with this topic.

Some are never happy with change... so be it. I still see people somehow with the classic (win95) looking menu in windows 7, you can't force people to change if they are dead against it.

DaveBG said,
not having a start menu will hurt the dumb users most

Well, this dumb user and his ilk uses VM's and RDP sessions in windowed mode.
If you ever did RDP inside a VM session (or RDP inside another RDP), you'll know how frustrating it is to try and find that ONE bloody pixel in the corner.
Oh and we also think it's hilarious when Server 2012 (yes, a SERVER os) asked us to "touch" a button to continue..

<blink> ^^^^ THIS ^^^^</blink>

This makes the whole corner-centered UI completely Fing useless.
I cant believe they didn't user-test their crap better than this before releasing it.

I agree. Give them what they want... but don't make it the default, just an option.

The majority of consumers who buy new devices will just stick with the defaults. That's just how it works. I mean, how many Start Button apps have been sold so far? 10 million maybe? But Microsoft has sold over 100+ million copies of Windows 8 (at least), so... 90% are sticking with Metro.

Deviate_X said,

Give them then start button+menu and be done with this topic.

Some are never happy with change... so be it. I still see people somehow with the classic (win95) looking menu in windows 7, you can't force people to change if they are dead against it.

Nothing wrong with choice either.

Deogratias Saidi said,
no

Seriously, anyone who uses Windows 7 properly should barely use the start menu, with pinned taskbar apps and the search box you get when you first press start.

now they want to have two start buttons? One in plain view for all the idiots attached to Windows 95 ui, and then a hidden one in the corner to get back to the start screen? Good job on taking ui improvements and totally ruining them if that's the case.

Sicarius123 said,

Seriously, anyone who uses Windows 7 properly should barely use the start menu, with pinned taskbar apps and the search box you get when you first press start.

now they want to have two start buttons? One in plain view for all the idiots attached to Windows 95 ui, and then a hidden one in the corner to get back to the start screen? Good job on taking ui improvements and totally ruining them if that's the case.

never used the search box one time ever in any version of windows. if you do fine but that has no bearing on the rest of us AND i almost never use the start menu either. I have alternate means of doing things. Thanks for assuming how i use my machine and telling me how I'm doing it wrong though.