Mac OS X 10.4.9 Update Causing Ugly Crashes?

There are a handful of Macintosh users who are suffering problems from the recent update to Mac OS X 10.4.9. Based on the comments in the blog entry below and the thread links provided, it isn't an isolated incident, nor is it the same problem for everybody. The author, Pete Mortensen, warns his readers to possibly reconsider the update, based on the problems described to him. I would just advise to make a disk image or a backup to removable media, as with any service pack or equivalent release. Is this just the typical problems that users may experience with a fairly large update, or is it something more? Neowin members, if you own a Mac – have you updated, and if so, has the update gone smoothly, or do you have a story to tell?

News source: Wired Blogs

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I updated without a problem to 10.4.9 however it took a while to install. The only problem I have noticed is Safari crashs every once in a while.... Not a big deal to me. I rather use firefox anyway.

Installed the update. Worked fine with no issues for me.

OS X usually takes longer to reboot after a large system update, and maybe people are thinking it has hung and rebooting (something that could cause issues). I've had it take up to a minute longer on slow machines to finish the pre-boot screen after an update.

That being said, if you think Windows is coded well, you are likely not in the computer consulting and repair business, and if you are, it is my opinion that you are lying to yourself. Windows is good for business. If I had only mac clients, I wouldn't make any money.

Morphie said,
Installed the update. Worked fine with no issues for me.

OS X usually takes longer to reboot after a large system update, and maybe people are thinking it has hung and rebooting (something that could cause issues). I've had it take up to a minute longer on slow machines to finish the pre-boot screen after an update.

That being said, if you think Windows is coded well, you are likely not in the computer consulting and repair business, and if you are, it is my opinion that you are lying to yourself. Windows is good for business. If I had only mac clients, I wouldn't make any money.

The problem is that this is only an opinion. This is just utter nonsense. These type of juvenile comments just keep on coming. This crap is repeated over and over again (and so or later sheep believe it). If you worked in the business you would realize the reason why you don't get any complaints from Mac users is because there aren't even (in most corporate settings), and very few in the home.

You might want to actually take a look at the operating system core architectures of three platforms. The first would be Windows Vista, the second GNU/Linux, and than Mac OSX. If you actually took a look at much of the core technology you would realize that you don't have much to brag about (and might have a lot to be fearful of).

I had an odd bug that I chalked up to the fact i installed an internal beta earlier of 10.4.9 onto my 20inch Core2Duo iMac. After I installed the released version of the update, my clock, volume and all objects in the top corner disappeared and disk images weren't mounting correctly on my desktop. I downloaded the full size Combo update and that took care of the issue. Its running perfect now, but none of the patches ever caused a crash.

I updated my Macbook core 2 duo with it and I have only experienced my first mac restart with it. A black little screen comes up and says Restart your mac...

Other than that Finder restarts every now and then. Safari sometimes gets overwhelmed and becomes a sissy and dies.

Maybe im just better at using windows... but my Mac experience has more crashes than windows Vista has so far.

Updated my Core 2 Duo MacBook with nothing but positive results. Volume is louder with the internal speakers and I really appreciate the adjustment to the eject button. All of my 3rd party software is running as good, if not better, than when on 10.4.8, not to mention apps like iTunes, iPhoto, Safari, and Mail are rock solid.

I wonder if we need to analyze exactly what is an OS crash and what is a software crash? Even on Windows, I'm willing to bet about 85% of my problems were due to crap coded software that didn't play nice with updates.

I can't use any of my printers... the drivers won't load correctly.

Hopefully a patch is issued... I can't use network printers either.

Worked fine for the most part, I got a restart message (equivelant to a BSOD, except it somehow has eye candy. How can it have eye candy if the system crashes is my question) randomly yesterday though, but a hard power down and a restart fixed it. If it happens again, I'll call Apple.

Anyone who is about to install it, the general word around the interwebs is to use the combo install, not software update, and repair the hard disk before and after installing the update.

Well a repair before installing updates used to be recommended regardless - and made sense - make sure your disks are in order before doing a major update.

From memory that used to be recommended by apple - but I cannot be sure.

Same as making sure your machine is malware free before doing any major upgrade regardless of your OS and a backup.

Ya know whats funny about this, microsoft hasn't had a **** up like this since xp service pack 1....even vista doesnt crash like this.

Service pack 2 left quite a few people with issues, and this is the equivelant to a service pack. So Microsoft hasn't screwed up this bad since their last service pack, and Apple just released a service pack that has issues. Do you see my point? It's a big system update, in this case I believe it's a rollup in fact, with Leopard coming soon, and 10.*.9 is usually as high as Apple goes.

simon360 said,
Service pack 2 left quite a few people with issues, and this is the equivelant to a service pack. So Microsoft hasn't screwed up this bad since their last service pack, and Apple just released a service pack that has issues. Do you see my point? It's a big system update, in this case I believe it's a rollup in fact, with Leopard coming soon, and 10.*.9 is usually as high as Apple goes.

OSX 10.4.9 is not a major service pack. Service pack 1 was a minor change, but service pack 2 was not. Here has been the current release schedule of Tiger.

*). Mac OS X v10.4.0 (build 8A428), released April 29, 2005 (retail)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.1 (build 8B15), released May 16, 2005 (Apple Download Page)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.2 (build 8C46), released July 12, 2005 (Apple Download Page)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.2 (build 8E102), released October 12, 2005
*). Mac OS X v10.4.2 (build 8E45), released October 19, 2005
*). Mac OS X v10.4.2 (build 8E90), released October 19, 2005
*). Mac OS X v10.4.3 (build 8F46), released October 31, 2005
*). Mac OS X v10.4.4 (build 8G32 for PowerPC, 8G1165 for Intel)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.5 (build 8H14 for PowerPC, 8G1454 for Intel)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.6 (build 8I127 for PowerPC, 8I1119 for Intel)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.7 (build 8J135 for PowerPC, 8J2135a for Intel)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.7 (build 8K1079), released August 7, 2006
*). Mac OS X v10.4.8 (build 8L127 for PowerPC, 8L2127 for Intel)
*). Mac OS X v10.4.9 (build 8P135 for PowerPC, 8P2137 for Intel)

These were all major service packs (except the first one and the x86 release)? The honest truth is that 10.4 was nothing more than a service pack to 10.3. I currently have a OSX 10.2 workstation that can run almost no software that is currently released (and people complain about Windows compatibility).

The next real version of OSX will actually be Mac OSXI or Mac OS 11. I am sorry, but 10.5 does not a major OS upgrade make. These updates are nothing more than glorified service releases with extra eye candy thrown in and compatibility issues created (well actually not really, more an architecture issue) in order to force people to upgrade.

And we have the usual trolls and cynical replies in here...

If windows were well written then it would have procedures in place to lock out bad drivers. However not every fault with windows is a result of drivers - thats why there is so many security and patches for windows that are not driver related. Most of the time you see crashes on the mac - its because based upon the unix system its designed to stop and give the end user the chance to fix the problem WHEN IT OCCURS - unlike in windows where you fix the symptoms as they snowball because the system keeps working. I wish however that if the system was unable to boot it would automatically reboot into console and run fsck -fy and then reboot again. For those of you who don't know - the mac will run a file system check on every boot - and stop if it finds a problem. Personally I wish that would just repair but there is a reason behind it.

I haven't attempted to apply this update to the machines at work yet but I have a number of iMac's still in the box that will be fully patched before they are deployed.

Mac's DO get viruses - but the chances of getting them are next to none when compared to the frequency that windows does. They do have problems - as does Unix, Linux, BSD, Solaris and all the other operating systems.

As with any service pack - backup prior to updating.

Would you have applied SP2 to your windows machine without a backup? Oh wait - 90% of the population doesn't back up thats why I have my job. Any service pack is best applied either slipstreamed or on a clean install.

Once any system has been used for a while corruptions creep in and applications that are installed change things. It is these changes that tend to cause the most complication occur.

And to the trolls and armchair critics - get a life or better yet - get some experience in the systems your a 'so called' expert in. Work with over 200 Macs and 200 PC's and get them to network together - and then see how your opinion of both systems changes.

caledai said,
And we have the usual trolls and cynical replies in here...

If windows were well written then it would have procedures in place to lock out bad drivers. However not every fault with windows is a result of drivers - thats why there is so many security and patches for windows that are not driver related. Most of the time you see crashes on the mac - its because based upon the unix system its designed to stop and give the end user the chance to fix the problem WHEN IT OCCURS - unlike in windows where you fix the symptoms as they snowball because the system keeps working. I wish however that if the system was unable to boot it would automatically reboot into console and run fsck -fy and then reboot again. For those of you who don't know - the mac will run a file system check on every boot - and stop if it finds a problem. Personally I wish that would just repair but there is a reason behind it.

I haven't attempted to apply this update to the machines at work yet but I have a number of iMac's still in the box that will be fully patched before they are deployed.

Mac's DO get viruses - but the chances of getting them are next to none when compared to the frequency that windows does. They do have problems - as does Unix, Linux, BSD, Solaris and all the other operating systems.

As with any service pack - backup prior to updating.

Would you have applied SP2 to your windows machine without a backup? Oh wait - 90% of the population doesn't back up thats why I have my job. Any service pack is best applied either slipstreamed or on a clean install.

Once any system has been used for a while corruptions creep in and applications that are installed change things. It is these changes that tend to cause the most complication occur.

And to the trolls and armchair critics - get a life or better yet - get some experience in the systems your a 'so called' expert in. Work with over 200 Macs and 200 PC's and get them to network together - and then see how your opinion of both systems changes.

Yes, mister UNIX god. All hail before a geek who can manage four hundred computers. You might want to look over a lot of your assumptions (because they are wrong, like your understandings of Windows and OSX internals). That being said, I guess it takes a troll to understand a troll, and you sir are a troll. Nothing more and nothing less.

The only thing I will agree with you is that this is been blown way out of portion and that all system brake over time. However, do you really have to insult 96% of the user base out there and use illogical concepts that are incoherent to make your points.

bluarash said,
Yes, mister UNIX god. All hail before a geek who can manage four hundred computers. You might want to look over a lot of your assumptions (because they are wrong, like your understandings of Windows and OSX internals). That being said, I guess it takes a troll to understand a troll, and you sir are a troll. Nothing more and nothing less.

The only thing I will agree with you is that this is been blown way out of portion and that all system brake over time. However, do you really have to insult 96% of the user base out there and use illogical concepts that are incoherent to make your points.

Acually caledai said nothing wrong, nor was he trolling. Ironically YOU are the troll here so I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Chad said,

Acually caledai said nothing wrong, nor was he trolling. Ironically YOU are the troll here so I suggest you take it elsewhere.

I beg to differ. I am not going to take it elsewhere. He was trolling because he posted information that would be considered nothing more than typical Mac elitist flame bait. Go to google.com and type define: troll and you get:

# From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flame-bait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
teladesign.com/ma-thesis/glossary.html
--->It is flame-bait because it is designed to provoke a response.

# a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post
www.archivemag.co.uk/gloss/T.html
--->He cites undocumented and irrational assertions about his experience using Windows. Further, his knowledge of the OSX kernel is lacking (for an alleged UNIX expert).

The information he posted was further not correct and overly stereotypical (and short sighted). I am not a troll because I pointed out the problems with his logic.

bluarash said,
I beg to differ. I am not going to take it elsewhere. He was trolling because he posted information that would be considered nothing more than typical Mac elitist flame bait. Go to google.com and type define: troll and you get:

# From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flame-bait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
teladesign.com/ma-thesis/glossary.html
--->It is flame-bait because it is designed to provoke a response.

# a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post
www.archivemag.co.uk/gloss/T.html
--->He cites undocumented and irrational assertions about his experience using Windows. Further, his knowledge of the OSX kernel is lacking (for an alleged UNIX expert).

The information he posted was further not correct and overly stereotypical (and short sighted). I am not a troll because I pointed out the problems with his logic.

Beg to differ all you want but it won't change that you are in the wrong.

Chad said,

Beg to differ all you want but it won't change that you are in the wrong.

Oh please...**** off. That was your only response to my write-up. I am sorry but OSX is an inferior mess.

bluarash, i gotta agree with chad here. caledai said nothing false, nor did he insult any company or product, it was constructive critism at the most... However "OSX is an inferior mess" would be flaming...

Although to add to caledai point, Vista does now improve on a lot of those things, if a driver fails, it will log it, restart the driver, notify the people invovled and find a solution, rarely would a driver now cause a system crash, but yeah, it will still happen.

bluarash said,

Yes, mister UNIX god. All hail before a geek who can manage four hundred computers. You might want to look over a lot of your assumptions (because they are wrong, like your understandings of Windows and OSX internals). That being said, I guess it takes a troll to understand a troll, and you sir are a troll. Nothing more and nothing less.

The only thing I will agree with you is that this is been blown way out of portion and that all system brake over time. However, do you really have to insult 96% of the user base out there and use illogical concepts that are incoherent to make your points.


Since you say he is so wrong give some how and why.

Installed perfectly fine for me. But it seems every 10.x.x update results in people having crashes and other problems.

This news is not representative at all of what's happening. I don't know why Neowin posted it, as many people didn't get any issues and notice on the contrary that things are smoother. That's the problem with journalists, they tend to make us believe that there are more problems than the reality...

I just installed the update on my 6 month old macbook pro core2duo and on first reboot i couldnt load any programs, it would just hang.

I had force it to turn off by holding the power button.

On next reboot it then looked like it was doing the same thing but then after about 30secs programs would load.

It seems generally OK now BUT i have noticed that the wifi seems less stable now and loses connection alot.
Previously i had the 802.11 enabler patch installed, maybe it has disabled it?

The only problem I had was with iTunes but that turned out to be an issue with UNO and 10.4.9. After uninstalling UNO and re-installing iTunes all is well.

Had the same thing. Figured it out right away, as I re-applied UNO when I noticed the iTunes looked dark. Bam! White playlist pane. I'm still running 10.4.8, and updated iTunes on it's own.

Easy to fix though.

Individual users who experience unexpected errors when installing a piece of software and think they need to advise ANY potential user of that software not to install it because of that should be shot in the head.

GEIST said,
Individual users who experience unexpected errors when installing a piece of software and think they need to advise ANY potential user of that software not to install it because of that should be shot in the head.

Way to group think with the best of them...

A handful of them? Isn't that the same as saying all of them?


Anyway this makes me afraid to turn on my Macbook Pro and update it.

no issues here.. but at work there were at least 7 computers that were affected.. btw macs have problems.. i wouldn't be a support analyst for them if they didn't :P

Updated both my 17" MacBook Pro and my 15" Powerbook G4. No problems on either.

Really if you have problems you are going to use a support website, the happy campers aren't going to use a support website now are they.

Thats a good point. I have so many people ask me ¨Do you get many faulty macs?¨

I work for an apple service provider. People don't come in to tell me when everything is working fine

Yeah, I was gonna say...I haven't had any issues either. Updated just fine, everything runs as before. I can't tell I updated.

I found when I had any hacked programs, like running Front Row on a PPC mini, that I would always have problems after updates but no problems since I stopped, most likely the people having problems are running some kind of system modifier. Then again that's just my half-witted opinion.

Here we go again.......Is one persons experience really worth a main page headline?

I'd love to see a headline every time my windows pc crashed.

shaywood said,
Is one persons experience really worth a main page headline?

Well since that's impacting 10% of the mac userbase, i'd say that's headline worthy! ;)
I kid, i kid.

Of course it is worth it!! I heard from the mac community and mac commercials macs dont crash, macs dont need to restart that many times, macs dont get infected and blah blah blah! and yet they wonder why everyone is talking about it. :confused: 1 crash is enough to write a headline about the lovely praised macs

Dont be suprised when once a headline will say 1 virus was found on a mac. Its because of the mac community. We all know windows crashes and windows can get a virus and we also dont pretend its not true!! Its all because of apples childish marketing macs dont get a virus, blah blah blah ... and than the mac community starts with the same childish **** and then when once a security issue or whatever is found every mac user wonders why they are laughing at them and writing headlines for mac security issues instead for windows since they have much more security issues and all.

You understand now? And dont say it aint true! I can just lough at this and for me its nothing new I had an Intel mac for a year and I know how it is when a mac crashses - its nasty

Same here. I updated my iMac, rebooted, and my system actually runs better. It seems a bit quicker, and the volume is noticeably louder.

I haven't had any crashes, and it's actually fixed a bad bug i have had with my mac for 6 months or so.

Basically, network printing wasn't happening (PostScript to PDF was crashing the app), install the update and suddenly network printing works again.

Oh yeah, and my audio seems louder, which i'm happy about, it's never loud enough with headphones.

The_Decryptor said,
I haven't had any crashes, and it's actually fixed a bad bug i have had with my mac for 6 months or so.

Basically, network printing wasn't happening (PostScript to PDF was crashing the app), install the update and suddenly network printing works again.

Oh yeah, and my audio seems louder, which i'm happy about, it's never loud enough with headphones.

I love this kind of post. All you hear from Mac people is how they never have any problems, "I switched, and unlike WinBlows and all M$ software, everything works flawlessly in the Apple world", blah, blah, blah. Then a patch for Apple software is released, and posts are made "I had a problem with X since I got my Mac, I installed the patch and now everything is bliss". I am not saying that you, personally have made posts like this, but it happens over and over. If some Windows user could not print for 6 months, how much would we hear about it? But if it happens in the Apple world, we get 100s of "No problem here" or "Is this really news?". In fact, not too long ago I read a post from some user bragging that printing in OSX did not require a driver because it used some Open Source method of printing, and Windows is bad because it requires drivers.

SoylentG said,

I love this kind of post. All you hear from Mac people is how they never have any problems, "I switched, and unlike WinBlows and all M$ software, everything works flawlessly in the Apple world", blah, blah, blah. Then a patch for Apple software is released, and posts are made "I had a problem with X since I got my Mac, I installed the patch and now everything is bliss". I am not saying that you, personally have made posts like this, but it happens over and over. If some Windows user could not print for 6 months, how much would we hear about it? But if it happens in the Apple world, we get 100s of "No problem here" or "Is this really news?". In fact, not too long ago I read a post from some user bragging that printing in OSX did not require a driver because it used some Open Source method of printing, and Windows is bad because it requires drivers.

I don't think you ACTUALLY read what he said.

Network Printing and printing in General works easier in MAC. For example my Brother network attached all in one machine. Anytime I install it on any windows machine in the house I have to go into the port settings and change them because windows has mucket it up and set it wrong. Even after I manually gave it the printers IP address because it can't find it. When I install the drivers on my Mac I don't have to tell it where it is... it just finds it.


The pure and simple fact of this WHOLE MAC VS PC thing is that most people that complain about MAC people having Loyalty to APPLE products is that they havent actually experienced what it is like to have a product just work. No fiddling with the nobs... In the Four years that I have owned my MAC I have not had to turn the thing off because it LOCKED up. Some people view MACS as toys because of the ease of use.

When you want to talk about security go look at the NSA's web site and take a look at what they say about MACs.

Mac OS X delivers the highest level of security through the
adoption of industry standards, open software development,
and smart architectural decisions.

Secure default settings. When you take your Mac out of the box, it is securely
configured to meet the needs of most common usage environments, so you don’t
have to be a security expert to setup your computer. The default settings make it
very difficult for malicious software to infect your computer. Security can be further
configured on the computer to meet organizational or user requirements.

The NSA says the oposite about windows...

It does when a new version is near 10.3.9 had many problems, the only way to solve it was to buy Tiger...