Mac user: Don't underestimate the case

A case is a crucial part of a computer. Aside from the obvious fact that without a case, all you have is a pile of chips and cables, the case of a computer plays an important role in how you interact with it. Microsoft ads, and some of their users, may dismiss Macs as "more about looks" than anything else, but a Mac user looks at it differently. Fact is, it isn't always about performance; a bad case can make or (literally and figuratively) break a good computer, particularly on the mobile scene.

Let's take a look at the "unibody" MacBook Pros, as an example. They start from a solid block of aluminum and are shaven down to form the case. The design is simple, everything is well laid out. The keyboard is considered to be well designed, and the case is solid. The screen is vibrant, and it's durable thanks to the glass. Finally, the MacBook Pro is a very nice looking machine.

What does the case lack? Excessive decals, extra texture where it is not needed, and lights flashing all over the place. That's my style, the extras aren't what I like. I focus on 3 things: the trackpad, the keyboard, and the screen. The design of a Mac is focused.

In contrast, let's take a look at many PC cases. They have buttons on the front, the side, on the screen, and next to the keyboard. There are switches all over the place. On most of these switches, there is an orange or blue light that stares at you, and can easily light up a dark room. And the case is made of plastic, much more likely to crack and break than aluminum. Am I generalizing here? Sure. But that's what I see when I roam the laptop aisles at Best Buy and Future Shop: ugly designs that are impractical for me, and drag attention away from what you really want: the screen.

Portability comes with it, as well. My MacBook Pro is really quite thin; Apple focuses on making their portables as portable as possible. No large rubber feet to boost the laptop off the ground, either: only small ones that add a few millimeters to the height, if that. In contrast, some other laptops have some shape added to them, or those big rubber feet. It makes them much more difficult to throw into a bag, and I find that it makes them more difficult to use.

A lot of what I'm saying is, admittedly, based entirely on opinion. But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper, that you would jump for the second laptop?

As a Mac user, I might be a bit more sensitive to these matters. Maybe I pay that extra $200 because I'm far too anal about the design. But the design is what you use. Power simply isn't as important to me, it's more about the experience of using the power.

Of course, that isn't the only reason I always spring for a Mac, but those reasons are for another day. Also, not all PC's are ugly. In fact, most are not. My point is that the aesthetics of a Mac are what work for me. It's attractive, comfortable, portable, and generally unobtrusive. Others prefer PC's that exert the same qualities, or different qualities if that is what suits them. It all comes down to taste. But when calculating the value of a laptop, so many ignore the quality of a case or personal taste, and jump for raw specs. And that simply isn't how I would choose a laptop.

Do you buy a computer based purely on power, or does design and feel come into play for you?

Please note that this is an editorial. The views expressed are that of the author, and not that of Neowin, its staff or its members.

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What I find most amusing Is I know 2 people who have had their Mac cases crack on them.

The only case issue I know anyone else to have not on a Mac was self inflicted by leaving a halogen light on about 2 cm from the case and thus burning a hole.

My conclusion is Mac cases are built worse not better.

Wow, now teenagers are getting front page editorials. Can we at least keep them in a more suitable area? Like moved to Locker Gnome or something?

I have to say I'm seriously disgusted with the mentality around here. Flaming an opinion-based article? Oh, that's right, he mentioned Apple, we can't allow that can we?

About the article itself:

Do you buy a computer based purely on power, or does design and feel come into play for you?

No, like you said, power isn't everything. My last laptop purchase was a Unibody Macbook. It replaced a Dell I had been given from work.

I had the same issues you had when looking for a laptop, I wanted something good, not too flashy, without all those blinking lights and huge fan grills.

The case quality was something that made me buy the Macbook. Sure I could have a "faster" laptop for less, but the truth is that speed difference would be almost negligible, and everything else would bother me for the next 3/4 years. For me, look, feel and ergonomics play a big role when choosing something like a laptop. It's something everyone probably considers too, not just me. I find it hard to believe that someone would choose a laptop solely on Mhz and RAM. Would you?

Had Simon not chosen the Mac, you'd all probably have a completely different view over this editorial.

if he chose some obscure or known PC brand because of 'looks' and sacrified power/performance for it, i'd still have to disagree... like many have said, its not a fashion accessory :P

what the f*ck kind of drugs are nerds on these days i'd just rather not see any entries like this, Mac or PC, because its all personal opinion, you expect everyone to have the same view? lol

lets all just stick to news and the facts i say

artfuldodga said,
if he chose some obscure or known PC brand because of 'looks' and sacrified power/performance for it, i'd still have to disagree... like many have said, its not a fashion accessory :P

what the f*ck kind of drugs are nerds on these days i'd just rather not see any entries like this, Mac or PC, because its all personal opinion, you expect everyone to have the same view? lol

lets all just stick to news and the facts i say

You'd disagree, I would agree. We all behave differently.
I just find it sad that a lot of members don't respect opinion.

As for having editorials, I'm all for it. Users want to share their opinions with the community, and no one forces me or you to read them. We don't have to share the same view, we just have to accept that they may differ.
Judging by your own posts I think you still need a bit of work on that part...

Ricardo Gil said,

You'd disagree, I would agree. We all behave differently.
I just find it sad that a lot of members don't respect opinion.

As for having editorials, I'm all for it. Users want to share their opinions with the community, and no one forces me or you to read them. We don't have to share the same view, we just have to accept that they may differ.
Judging by your own posts I think you still need a bit of work on that part...

I think most of us respect opinion. But, what most of us don't like to see is bashing one product against another just because someone thinks it is cute. If only the OP had voiced his love for his MAC without bashing competing products, I think people would have been fine. But, bashing is what triggers the flame war. By bashing, he in a way insults other people's choices and opinions. So, yeah, I think he has been disrespectful of other people's opinions.

But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper, that you would jump for the second laptop?

$200 cheaper is an understatment. I bought a HP dv5 for $1000 with better specs(looking on hdd, cpu, ram and gpu) than the 15" MBP for $2200. It might be twice as thick and have a more fragile chassie but if the computer breaks or get stolen(more afraid of this than breaking it) i can buy a new one and still save $200!, this time propably with even better specs!
I'd love to have a MBP because of the size and quality but that huge pricegap doesn't quite justify the cost.

know whats sad? when the authors become the trolls, happens all to often today, see Gizmodo / Engadget
maybe Neowin should add an filter? does any such thing exist... wondering, you know but actually make it visible that they can be filtered :P

Well the problem with this statement is not all PC laptops have the big grips plastic body and so on. There are few but some like the msi x340 ( http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc...mp;prod_no=1770 ). Which has the same style as the mac book as skinny but only 800$(from newegg) VS.1,499.00$ (from apple) While the x340 has more ports including card reader, audio, lan, 2 usb, hdmi, and vga. But has crappier graphics and a slightly slower processor with a bigger hard drive. Laptops like those no offense are often unheard of because they can actually challenge apple computers. In my opinion.

I for one understand that some people don't care about the looks of the tools they use, and that's fine, I'm not offended by it. I do wonder why people get so upset when someone says "I like my Mac because it's pretty and I don't like the general PC designs".

I don't really care when someone says they dislike Macs for any reason (or any other product I own, perhaps we can start a war about hairdryer brands? Vidal Sasson ftw! ) . I am secure in my decisions and tastes. I know that I have my reasons, they suit me, and if someone disagrees it's not an attack on me nor does it devalue my opinion or decisions, myself as a person, etc etc. Why are people so sensitive?

But when calculating the value of a laptop, so many ignore the quality of a case or personal taste, and jump for raw specs. And that simply isn't how I would choose a laptop.

I'm the same. The first laptop I had was really cheap, but good specification for that price, and I was poor and stingy. Unfortunately it had only an hour's battery life, the screen developed a fault, it had to be sent back to swap the DVD drive and fix an issue with the Wi-Fi card. 17inch was a nice size, but it was very heavy and bulky, and thus not easy to carry into uni every day. So, I compromised on price and that's what I got for it, something that was cheap and not robust enough.

Sure it was a good workhorse and did what I needed to but when I was upgrading I knew I wanted something smaller, lighter, with a better battery life and generally higher quality, and I was willing to pay extra for it. I had by that point fell in love with the wondrous OS X and didn't want to end up with Vista, so it was quite natural that I should take a look at Apple's offerings before anything else. It was either go Mac, or find a Linux friendly laptop. The white MacBook was perfectly suited to my needs and within my budget. And so we live happily ever after

C-Jae said,
As for deleting the articles? As one of our editors said - we don't delete articles or editorials just because some members disagree with the article or editorial. Why should we? Not everyone is going to agree.

If it doesn't interest you, why comment? If you disagree with what the editorial is saying, why not just join in and be a part of a meaningful discussion on the issue?

I think you've missed the point. Most of the comments here don't care about the quality of the editorial itself. I personally think it was a well reasoned out, though a bit provoking in some areas, argument about why some Mac users prefer a Mac. The point that most people are making is the fact that even still, this article has not addressed the issue eloquently enough to take over a part of the frontpage (yes it does look like I'm contradicting myself, but I saying that this article is good, but not that good), when I'm pretty sure more worthy news could have taken its place.

well written, but...
most of us know some individuals out there prefer vanity over functionality/power/value? etc (which is extremely sad)

not exactly news now is it? lol

Simon, although this isn't news it's a nice explanation of why you, and many other conscientious buyers, choose a mac.( there are obviously lots of people who buy them for status and have no clue of what they're really getting )

Most of the people don't understand the value of ergonomics, usability and user experience, you either do or do not, and it's a waste of time to try to tell them how important those aspects of hardware/software design are, really.

I, for one, used to hate macs, I was younger and cool design students all had one, my school updated the macs once per year and let us multimedia/etc people use 3 year old pcs, hardware-wise I always recognized the superior mac industrial design but always dismissed them, managed to squeeze arguments to support that what I had was the best.

Software-wise I also didn't understand why OSX would be any better than windows, no window maximizing, basic finder without lots of options on right click and so on, not gonna explain when I understood the why of that and why I value its unix origins.

I'm also a (web)developer btw.

Oh well, hf.

I bought my newest laptop solely on the design of the outer body. Obviously I looked at other laptops with the same specs, as I wanted a laptop with these specs, but when it came down to the brands, I wanted a Sony and that Sony was �50 less. It had the same specs as this, but was �50 less. I still went for this Toshiba, even though the Sony was less money and I hadn't had a good experience with my last Toshiba laptop. Why? Because it was a very shiny black and it had a few white lights all around it. A light for the battery power, a light for when it's plugged in, a light for when it's charging up, a light for the logo of the product name and lights for the music controls; all neatly arranged around the case of the laptop. There was also a light, width-ways across the bottom of the trackpad.

I love it. It looks very nice, to me, and so it made sense to get that one. I would have done the same if the specs were slightly lower, because it would still have ran Windows as well/fast as I need.

I take this quote from the article -

The article
A lot of what I'm saying is, admittedly, based entirely on opinion. But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper, that you would jump for the second laptop?

and ask all of you the same question? A lot of you are posting awful comments, directed at the author, when he was just expressing his opinion and now I ask -

Would you? I certainly wouldn't go for the ugly, thick (and therefore not as portable), laptop, with blaring fans.

P.S. here are some pictures of the laptop I am talking about; the one I went on looks for -
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx339/C...quiumA300D1.jpg
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx339/C...quiumA300D2.jpg

It is funny how many commenters here have the same incorrect belief: design = looks. Design isn't how it looks, design is how it works. The whole top side of the MacBook Pro is one piece of aluminium. No outside case attached to an internal structure. Being one solid piece makes it both lighter and stronger making the MacBook Pros some of the sturdiest laptops on the market.

Then we have the fact that they have no physical latches for the screen, it is just a set of magnets that hold it closed. This gets rid of one of the components that is most likely to break on a laptop, which also reduces the components needed, allowing the screen to be thinner. Instead of a latch button there is a groove in the base, which has had a lot of thought put into it. You may think "how much thought can you put into a groove?". The answer is a lot. Is it too big and therefore wasting space/looking ugly. Is it too small so only those with the smallest fingers can get in comfortably? Is it shaped well so you can get enough of your finger tip in to get leverage on the screen to overcome the pull of the magnets?

Also with magnets there is the MagSafe adaptor. Now this isn't new in the world of electrical goods, some kitchen appliances have had a similar concept for a while, but Apple's laptops are the first computers to have them. If you've ever had a laptop go (or almost go) flying because someone tripped over the power cord, you'll appreciate what the MagSafe adaptor does.

Next we also have little things like the ports all being down one side, with them positioned in order of size, so the big ethernet port is nearest the back near the power, while the audio ports are nearest the front. A small detail but a nice change from many PC laptops which have ports wherever the manufacturer can place them.

Onto the keyboard. It doesn't have lots of extra keys cramped around it. You don't have the manufacturer cramping the keyboard to fit a separate numpad on, or shoving media keys up the side. It is just the keyboard, with the function keys also acting as media keys if needed. And then of course you have the backlight on the keyboard, which automatically comes on when you're in a dark room.

And finally, the best part of Mac laptops: the trackpad. No other trackpads come anywhere near to matching those on the MacBook Pro. PC trackpads are often relatively small, with dedicated left and right mouse buttons and a scroll strip up the side or along the top or base. This reduces the amount of space for scrolling and is inflexible (a right handed person's thumb will mostly be over the right mouse button). On the MacBook Pro there is a huge trackpad which is also the single button. But what about right click? Just hold two fingers down when you click. And how do you scroll without strips for scrolling? Just hold down two fingers and drag up, down, left or right to scroll. On top of that it is multi touch so you have gestures for rotating, scaling, moving through documents, activating exposé or tabbing through applications. And the trackpad isn't just any old surface. It is glass which has been tested to find the one with the best amount of friction to let you slide smoothly over the trackpad.

So yes they look good, but the design that goes into them is far more than good looks, it is how it works. The whole point of the original post is to highlight that you shouldn't just compare computers based on specs. Sure the Mac may have a few MHz less compared to a cheaper laptop, but for most users that won't be noticeable. What they gain though is a much better case which is your "user interface" to the computer. Most Mac users are willing to pay a bit more for a computer they'll enjoy using, rather than one which might be a bit cheaper and more powerful.

I also totally agree with it. If I was shopping for a laptop (have none) I'd go for the Macbooks first. I had some beefs with the previous generation (no FireWire and crap display on the 13" Macbook) but those have been fixed with the updated versions a few weeks ago.

While I think PC laptop design has come a long way, very few seem to actually try new things like improving trackpads.

Now desktop PC cases on the other hand are in general not only damn ugly but also not practical to work with. Tons of sharp edges inside seem to cut my hands up whenever I'm assembling a computer, most cases have no noise reduction methods for hard drives (important when building a quiet system like mine). At least nowadays they're generally fairly easy to open compared to old cases.

I agree too with this comment..

Its how the stuff works..
also lets not forget the OS.. and how it works.., I always find it strange when PC users says something like: "they are the same hardware but you are paying more for the apple logo" !!. how could they base an argument on that ?

Do you think that macs are made to run windows? so you are now basing your comparison from a hardware point ?!

Macs are built to run OSX, not windows in the first place..
so if one wants to compare Macs to PC, there is hardware and its quality and how it made to work, and secondly the OS. and how its made to work with both the user and the hardware.

anyway.. no one could disagree though that macs are a very high quality piece of machine in both hardware, or cases and how they includes the hardware, and also the OS.. whoever denies that based on no valid arguments are just trolling..

Pink Waters said,
anyway.. no one could disagree though that macs are a very high quality piece of machine in both hardware, or cases and how they includes the hardware, and also the OS.. whoever denies that based on no valid arguments are just trolling..

Thanks for providing an example of trolling yourself. At some point it is just a matter of taste. And your taste is only as good as someone else's. So, yes, one doesn't need to have a reason to like or dislike Mac's or PC's.

And what's the logic behind Mac's being built to run OS X? Does it have a different type of processor? harddrive? or any other component? Is the silicon used in some of the chips different? It's the same set of hardware that you can find in almost any laptop.

zagor said,
Thanks for providing an example of trolling yourself. At some point it is just a matter of taste. And your taste is only as good as someone else's. So, yes, one doesn't need to have a reason to like or dislike Mac's or PC's.

And what's the logic behind Mac's being built to run OS X? Does it have a different type of processor? harddrive? or any other component? Is the silicon used in some of the chips different? It's the same set of hardware that you can find in almost any laptop.

I am not considering or talking about taste here..
I am saying that basically apple products are a high quality ones.. thats obvious from many points...at least from the original comment we are quoting here now..

and I say that denying that these products are a high quality WITHOUT a valid argument to prove that, that would be considered just trolling... (don't you get that or what?! lol)

and for the logic behind macs being built to run OSX, I can say:
developing an OS for a template of hardware minimizes the chances for incompatibility, hassle, the need for drivers and instability. in addition to being able to provide better support, convenience, piece of mind, accessibility and a solid ground for future innovation.

you can picture it to some extent as having a game console for running your games than using a PC for it.

some people like that way.. some people don't but that does not mean that people who don't like that way should accuse apple for being innovative or having non high quality rubbish machines because they don't like their way.

so when a user like OSX and wanna use it , he will go buy a mac to use it..
so he won't go buy it to run windows.. so you cannot tell him why not go buy a cheaper PC with more specifications.
the point here is that we buy mac hardware because we wanna use OSX.. with some piece of mind, quality hardware and apple support. so we are not going to use a hackintosh for that.

See, now THIS is a post! Thank you Martin for your contribution!

What is he looking at? The technical aspects of the design. This is what MATTERS to us tech lovers out there. So what if it's "pretty"?! We're certainly not all 12 year old girls here. Yes, looks are somewhere on our list, but the overall FUNCTION of the design is certainly important to us.

I'm no fan of Apple by far, but the points he brings up are certainly quite valid.

Pink Waters said,
the point here is that we buy mac hardware because we wanna use OSX.. with some piece of mind, quality hardware and apple support. so we are not going to use a hackintosh for that.

This is not the point that the OP is making at all. And his argument is not about OS X or windows.

And not all of us get a Mac to use OS X. Might be the case with you. But, certainly not all of us, myself included.

I don't think I've ever dissed a main post before, but this time it's just ridiculous as far as the logic the author used. Allow me to paraphrase what I just read:

1. LEDs and button lights are distracting. All that should have my attention is the screen.
2. Ugly cases are ugly and pretty designs matter.

If all that matters is the screen ('workspace'), then the case design doesn't matter. If the case design matters, then you can't say all you care about is the workspace. Any minimally-experienced PC builder could shove a system into the cheapest case available, stash it under or behind something, get an attractive USB enclosure for a disc drive placed attractively near your display, and set the keyboard/mouse buttons for power-on. Kabam, you have a PC design more minimal and 'sleek' than Apple's offerings and with unlimited options for expansion, since you've acknowledged that the case doesn't have to matter.

Jeez.

This kind of editorial is useless IMHO. It looks more than a Fanboy POS than a great piece of unprofesionnal journalism to me. I may be getting older but it looks than this kind of thing tend to multiply, maybe you might want to consider a name switch for your website :

neowin.net might becom NEOMAC.net :)

I agree, with trash like this making the front page I won̢۪t be subscribing to the RSS feed anymore, if I wanted I could get this sort of trash from a hundred other sites.

did the article just get bumped down a slot on the front page? how does that work... curious or does the staff just want it to die sooner rather than later now...

artfuldodga said,
did the article just get bumped down a slot on the front page? how does that work... curious or does the staff just want it to die sooner rather than later now...

I believe new news was posted, so it falls down just like in the forums when a new thread is posted after it.

Added in Gamers, 2 hours ago by Garrett Dodd · 2 comments
Added in Main, 9 hours ago by Elliot Harrison · 12 comments
Added in Hardware, 19 June - 23:25 by Sam Symons · 45 comments Hot!
Added in Software, 22 hours ago · (80)
Added in Editorial, 5 hours ago · (148) < this article and no Hot!, pretty 'hot' if you asked me :P just looks fishy

This might have been a nice OpEd and have a point if only he hadn't made it about PCs and Macs...
And, it doesn't harm to repeat, "taste is quite relative"
Some of us do care about design, myself included, along with power...I have a thinkpad X200 tablet. It's not shiny. But, for me, it looks great. It looks very professional. It has a great keyboard. It feels so sturdy, like a tank indeed. It is very portable. I love to work on it, type on it...Most important of all, it doesn't get in the way of what I do.

LOL a lot of PC users ****ed off.

Design and feel play a big part when I'm going to buy a computer/laptop and not only with computers but with other stuff too.

PC people also like design and feel, some just go for inside design (parts) more than the outside design.

I dont care that much about the outside at all, I need performance and good battery life to get the job done. Im not going to look at the outside and say it looks pretty.

yeah, i like my XPS 1530's design (better than Macbook Pro spec offerings at the time) but i'm not madly in love with the thing lol... the lift the 9cell battery gives it on the back was part of why i chose it (slight tilt forward plus extra ventilation) :P and why i couldn't choose a Mac *sad frown face /s

this article is complete fail

KoL said,
LOL a lot of PC users ****ed off.

I think the problem here is the assertion that "Macs look good and PCs are ugly." The justification for that assertion is given using a few (inaccurate) generalizaitons. It is only when we get to the end (by which time, some people have already jumped down to reply), that we get the statement, "Oh, by the way, not all PCs are ugly...in fact, most aren't."

But the author has already said,
In contrast, let's take a look at many PC cases. They have buttons on the front, the side, on the screen, and next to the keyboard. There are switches all over the place. On most of these switches, there is an orange or blue light that stares at you, and can easily light up a dark room. And the case is made of plastic, much more likely to crack and break than aluminum. Am I generalizing here? Sure.

This is a rather poorly constructed argument, which uses generalizations to support one particular point, and then states that the generalizations used are not general.

Doli said,
PC people also like design and feel, some just go for inside design (parts) more than the outside design.

I dont care that much about the outside at all, I need performance and good battery life to get the job done. Im not going to look at the outside and say it looks pretty.

I'm a PC and Mac user and when I buy a PC I looks for the inside and the outside too. I want a powerful PC that looks simple and nice without a lot of stuff and millions of blue LED. I have seen some really bad cases out there.

A lot of what I'm saying is, admittedly, based entirely on opinion. But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper and feels perfect for you also , that you would jump for the second laptop?


I made an edit in bold and yes I would jump for the second laptop and save $200. Also, the fans are not that bad and the thickness is not an issue.

It really annoys me when people write stories about how brilliant/terrible Mac is purely because they know it will attract attention, and plenty of page-views, from the ensuing fan boy flame wars.

I mean what exactly is new about saying Macs have nice cases? Of course they do, it's the only thing they DO have. Very nice cases, very little hardware and an operating system that just isn't up to scratch whatever the fan boys may tell you. Having said that I'd love a macbook pro with linux/windows on, but I can't really justify buying one since it's so lacking in hardware for the price.

As for normal laptops being cheap plastic bits of crap, hell, if you're that vain get an alienware. As far as I'm concerned if it's relatively minimalistic, has a nice screen and I haven't spilt anything on the keyboard yet it's practically a work of art.

Typing off a Sony Vaio Z36GD - a PC which has all of the halmarks of the Macbook - is more powerful, lighter, has better battery light and is easier to transport. I don't see what the big deal about is personally...

I had a MacBook Pro 17" and just recently moved to a Dell M6400. The Specs are amazing. Yes i gave up some portability(weight) but I what gained in performance was worth it. The best Macbook Pro could not even touch it. The price break I was given by a great Dell Rep it could not be beat either. The all ALUMINUM case does not flex and the design is very very sleek. I can tell you that the MacBook Pro 17" could not hold a candle to the power, speed or the brilliance of the LED RGB Edge 2 Edge screen. For almost the same which is still far off the Apple MacBook Pro was at $4300.00 and still didn't spec out close to what I got. Lucky for me I was able to unload it for $3800 as it was fairly new and tax free. I needed more power for some 3D modeling and heavy graphics work. I also wanted to give a hand at virtual machines as well.

I liked the weight and the thiness of the MacBook Prok 17" compared to the Dell M6400. The battery life on both machines running at full hilt is not that great. Mac's says 7 hours on a single charge. GOOD LUCK to get 2 hours from a full run at 100% brightness and tweaking Photoshop with large files and filters.

I spent just over $3500 for the Dell and the case is better than the MacBook Pro I must admit. I also got 1TB of HDD with RAID 0, 1GB Nvidia Card and more options than I can shake a stick at. Thats the main reason for the move. I am more than happy with the Dell and although I miss the weight difference in the MAC I would not trade the Dell for anything on the market today. When SSD's gets cheaper I want to RAID 0 two 500GB or 256GB SSD's. Talk about WOW!

Also I use a Laptop for purpose and not just to look cool sitting at Starbucks sipping on a Non Fat, Double Whip, Double Cup, Single Vanilla Squirt Latte posing with my MAC. I hate people who do that.

When I see Mac's in public areas such as Starbucks and the likes they are usually just listening to music or photo editing. Come on people there is more to life then to editing pictures and downloading iTunes. I guess that is perhaps the reason I sold the MAC. It impressed others more than it impressed me. :)

I saw this on another side. Someone did a study and found out that the ratio of highly educated people among Iphone users were high. The results were presented in a way as if you buy an Iphone, you suddenly become smarter...

Here is the deal, It almost doesn't matter what you have. What you own doesn't make you cool or smarter. But, what you do with it, what you create with it, that's what makes you cool...Stare at your shiny Mac as much as you want, or praise your almighty PC all day long..you'll not get any smarter or cooler....

But, anyways, these flame wars are still fun..kinda relaxing at times...

+1. People all have different opinions and different needs and purchase computers to suit their needs and wants. Seriously people get over this fanboy business.

Yet another front-page item inundated with opinion, and lacking any pertinent facts. Well, the author of this one at least acknowledges that their work is pure predilection.

I understand that this is supposed to be a editorial, although without the Neowin logo and 'Editorial' badge, I could just as well be reading a testimonial in one of Apple's advertisements. As for "attacking the poster of this editorial [being] unacceptable" -- how so? Implying that anyone who disagrees with him (eg. a PC User) either doesn't know what's important or has less taste ( "As a Mac user, I might be a bit more sensitive to these matters." ) is essentially provocation in its simplest form.

Does this mean that if I write an "editorial" on the wonders of Windows, bashing every flaw and fallacy of Macs, that it can become front-page "news"? We wouldn't want Neowin to appeal biased, especially with the two farcical pieces on Macs within the past seven hours...

Wonderful to see fellow readers come out of the woodwork and truly show their feelings about such a subpar piece of writing appearing on the front page. It is sad to see leadership of Neowin stick up for the author and try to tell us to be quiet.

.Cameron. said,
Yet another front-page item inundated with opinion [...] I understand that this is supposed to be a editorial, although without the Neowin logo and 'Editorial' badge, I could just as well be reading a testimonial in one of Apple's advertisements. As for "attacking the poster of this editorial [being] unacceptable" -- how so? [...]

An editorial is supposed to be an opinion. I don't see why we'd have to make it more clear that it is an editorial. We don't clearly label something as "news" when it is news. It's obvious something will be an editorial, because the tone of the article will be opinion-based. Just like it's obvious when something is a review.

Obviously that's all up to the editors and the administrators, though.

As for posts attacking the author. You didn't see the posts, before they were removed... of course posts which just disagree are allowed.


illz55 said,
It is sad to see leadership of Neowin stick up for the author and try to tell us to be quiet.

Why is it sad to see us stick up for the author? I'd post the same thing if I was still under the 'Registered' group of members. I think this article was brilliantly written and if you look at my comment nearer the bottom, you'll see why.

Also, nobody is telling you to shut up. We're just discussing the points you have made in your comments and it's not just staff who are disagreeing with some of the negative comments, other members are too.

C-Jae said,
An editorial is supposed to be an opinion. I don't see why we'd have to make it more clear that it is an editorial. We don't clearly label something as "news" when it is news. It's obvious something will be an editorial, because the tone of the article will be opinion-based. Just like it's obvious when something is a review.

Obviously that's all up to the editors and the administrators, though.

As for posts attacking the author. You didn't see the posts, before they were removed... of course posts which just disagree are allowed.


I know what an editorial is, and I noted that I could see it clearly labeled as such. I disagree that the tone of this editorial is merely "opinion-based" -- it reads like an advertisement to me. Even at the one point I thought an objective perspective was about to come to light ("What does the case lack? ..."), the author lists negative aspects of (implying PC) cases, leading up to a tangent on PC cases. I understand that this is a solely opinion-based article, but that doesn't justify the blazon condemnation of alternatives, nor the assault on the taste of those who disagree, which this article exhibits numerous times. ("As a Mac user, I might be a bit more sensitive to these matters."; "But when calculating the value of a laptop, so many ignore [...] personal taste...")

I suppose my main complaint is the placement of the article. Such a blatantly biased article as this would be much more acceptable if it wasn't placed on the front page, which is what I don't understand. The meta tag for description itself reads "Windows, Apple & Linux Technology news with Gamer and Software updates across the aforementioned platforms." As such, I would expect only to see news on the main page, without navigating elsewhere on the site. As you've likely surmised, I'm rather opinionated myself; however, I don't go about forcing my opinion on people looking for news.

As for the posts attacking the author: you're right, I didn't see them. I wasn't endorsing what anyone said, but saying that the dismissive nature of the article warrants it.

just wanted to point this out
"simon360 on 21 Jun 2009 - 03:14
That's where taste comes into play. Like I've said before, I have no need for a 20" screen, and I simply like the MacBook case better."

what makes your own taste? better than my own...
stop, i don't really want to know nor care, maybe you should of added 'personal', i'm out for the night... have a good night folks

My ugly fast cheap PC sits in a corner (desktop) and my MacBook Pro is something I'd want to carry around. Man that unibody is sturdy, and all those touch sensitive buttons, please!
PS as much as I like Apple computers, the front page feature should just be reserved for, well, news and left for the Mac portion of the website,

So the unibody Macs cases looks great, you just have to ignore the fact that they've crippled the SATA on the 13" and 15" models and removed the express card slot. Or there's the Air with all its screen and graphic card problems and a single USB port, looks great though, much more important.

I can't imagine more crying and whining could be caused by tear gassing a day care. Shut up already with the emotional retaliation. It's an editorial piece where the author confirms that it is based in large part off their own opinion. The author even asks a few good questions that could be replied to but instead they are attacked for it not being news? It's late on a Saturday. Not normally a big news day folks so perhaps CNN can help ya out if that's what you really need.

"Do you buy a computer based purely on power, or does design and feel come into play for you?" thats a good question? i thought it was a joke

Desktop PC cases would worry about what it looks like and functions of course, on a laptop I dunno if it really matter if it's made out a "solid block of aluminium" or whatever or a sturdy plastic case. Quite honestly I think Acers gemstone series and aspire one netbooks piano glossy finish design is best laptop design i've ever used and by looks. Though from pictures new dell line laptops look pretty good too. Apple just isn't appealing with dull grey brushed metal look across all laptops now not to mention the black keyboard on them looks out of place. Minimalism has it's ups and downs to some but sometimes when take it too far just doesn't pay off either.

Alright everyone, enough with the "Is this news" postings... we've done editorials for a long time.
The main page isn't always about news, we have opinion pieces every now and then.

If you disagree with it fine, but attacking the poster of this editorial is unacceptable, and people need to start calming down.

shockz said,
Alright everyone, enough with the "Is this news" postings... we've done editorials for a long time.
The main page isn't always about news, we have opinion pieces every now and then.

If you disagree with it fine, but attacking the poster of this editorial is unacceptable, and people need to start calming down.

How do you gather that people are attacking the poster? People are expressing their opinion about the editorial not the Poster. There is a difference.
And, what do you expect after posting this editorial? It's written in way that would only fuel flamewars...

shockz said,
Alright everyone, enough with the "Is this news" postings... we've done editorials for a long time.
The main page isn't always about news, we have opinion pieces every now and then.


If you disagree with it fine, but attacking the poster of this editorial is unacceptable, and people need to start calming down.


Idk, this just shouldn't have been on the front page, as many have said. And I do believe that this was a bad editorial, but hey, that's my opinnion! And the editorial was the author's opinnion!

But this is how I feel: Isn't the article kind of trolling? Saying that those PC LED's "stare" at you? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just want to learn the definition of trolling a little better. And if it was in fact trolling, then we should be able to write stuff like that in comments too. But hey, I just want to learn some more, that's all I want. I'm not offending anyone here.

QTT ... and btw, yes, an article on this sort of topic is trolling no matter which way you look at it :P in which case the entirety of responses seen thus far is 'tit for tat'

shockz said,
Alright everyone, enough with the "Is this news" postings... we've done editorials for a long time.
The main page isn't always about news, we have opinion pieces every now and then.

If you disagree with it fine, but attacking the poster of this editorial is unacceptable, and people need to start calming down.

Not to argue, or go against your word... I'm just using my right as an American to have this thing called Free Speech. By asking a question about 'how is this news?' isn't a direct attack on the author of the editorial... it's just a question that many of us are wondering. We're actually quite calm about it at that, I think we just get shocked when articles that sound so fanboyish that they get front page news. That's all... but, I could be wrong, this is still my opinion. So don't get all crazy on me. :P

So, what makes an editorial opinion more worthy than other Neowinian's opinions?
If such behavior is so easily tolerated, we should also have the right to make garbage and trash article to post on the front page.

XIII said,
So, what makes an editorial opinion more worthy than other Neowinian's opinions?
If such behavior is so easily tolerated, we should also have the right to make garbage and trash article to post on the front page.

If you want to have an opinion on the front page, apply for a news poster position.

Also this isn't a democracy, its a website, you can voice your opinion (in a mature manner), about what you think is appropriate or not, and we will take it under advisement, but when it comes down to it... what we deem appropriate or not isn't up to you.

Feel free to post whatever you like, but if we feel its something that doesn't belong here, it will be removed.

zagor said,

How do you gather that people are attacking the poster? People are expressing their opinion about the editorial not the Poster. There is a difference.
And, what do you expect after posting this editorial? It's written in way that would only fuel flamewars...

The posts attacking have been removed. This was an announcement. Simple as that

Was this actually an Editorial? Read more like a mac commercial.

Frankly, as the second 'macs are cool' piece in one day, I begin to wonder if that is what it actually is. I'm betting others are as well, which explains the negative reaction. It looks more like a sell out than content, and frankly it brings the quality level of Neowin down.

Or maybe it's the whole "macs are great, pcs suck" angle (which is also a mac commercial). Either way, it was a damn poor choice to make the main page.

I guess, at least, you now know what your readers don't want to see - that is, if you want to keep them reading.

shockz said,
The posts attacking have been removed. This was an announcement. Simple as that


I noticed, lol. But I still believe in Free Speech, but yea, it is your website, and honestly, I've considered trashing the moderators, but then I decided, my membership here at Neowin is too important. So far, this is my favorite news site, and I don't want to loose that membership.

hmm..just wondering and for the sake of curiosity. If I say something like "the poster seems to have a MAC crush", would that be considered as an "attack"..if it is, I won't say it :-)

shockz said,
Also this isn't a democracy, its a website, you can voice your opinion (in a mature manner), about what you think is appropriate or not, and we will take it under advisement, but when it comes down to it... what we deem appropriate or not isn't up to you.


However, if a large amount of your visitors want these types of articles moved from the main page, and you don't listen, don't think you can stay a website for long.

Chrono951 said,
However, if a large amount of your visitors want these types of articles moved from the main page, and you don't listen, don't think you can stay a website for long.

Agreed, but just because some one doesn't like an editorial means it shouldn't be here.

The day everyone agrees with an editorial would be a very weird day indeed.

shockz said,
Agreed, but just because some one doesn't like an editorial means it shouldn't be here.

The day everyone agrees with an editorial would be a very weird day indeed.


Excellent point. How about just making sure all the editorials use the same "Editorial" icon on the main page for identification? I personally like to just glance at the icons as I scroll. I didn't even realize this was an editorial until I entered.

Chrono951 said,

Excellent point. How about just making sure all the editorials use the same "Editorial" icon on the main page for identification? I personally like to just glance at the icons as I scroll. I didn't even realize this was an editorial until I entered.

The thing is, when something has an "editorial" stamp on it, one kind of expects a higher quality than a usual blog entry...At least that's how I would like to think about an editorial. Granted, it is still an opinion..But, at least it should be different than what we see from a forum post...

shockz said,
Agreed, but just because some one doesn't like an editorial means it shouldn't be here.

The day everyone agrees with an editorial would be a very weird day indeed.


Maybe so, but we are talking about a day when 95% of the people commenting don't agree with it. I am all for editorials but I believe some of them need to be screened before being front paged because they have no relevance.

damn beat me to it i was thinking the same thing democracy or no when the majority of neowinians say NO then maybe moderators should take action or run risk of loosing readers

I'm just thankful that MacBook keyboards aren't littered with extra keys and knobs and sliders all over the place. I also like the fact that the look of the machine is not distracting, as mentioned. The AC adapter is also of very high quality, unlike a lot of PC laptops. I bought a MacBook Pro just because of the hardware, and the battery life is exceptional too.

Every PC laptop's AC I've used has busted either where you plug into the laptop, or the plug that goes into the laptop.

Never had mine blow up, and there aren't any recall notices for mine. It has voltage spike protection and the "MagSafe" adapter is really great. It puts less stress on the connection just plugging it in and taking it off the laptop.

As for the extra keys on PC laptops, there's always new "office" keys and they change with every iteration, and the manufacturer has to stick keys on there for what they think you want to do (mail, calculator, notepad, sleep, etc). A lot of PC laptops also have crappily-shaped Enter and Shift keys, or they're moved around to weird spots. Some have idiotic buttons on the display panel.

You never saw a notebook that looked distracting? I guess you never saw one with lights littered about for various notifications and purposes (battery light, power light, AC adapter light, blue LEDs everywhere... who knows.

Stuff like this is annoying, it's right under the display: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/14743.jpg

I don't want a hard disk access light *groan*: http://valuestockphoto.com/download/15932-...erlight0462.jpg

Annoying to decipher, near the screen: http://www.gesievents.com/images/Product_I...31_mgd_in28.jpg

Just general ugliness: http://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads...jpg-500x380.jpg

Also, I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I can't stand to use the num-pad. The MacBook, you just hold down "fn" and you can use the arrow keys as PGUP/DN/HOME/END. The 7 8 9 buttons and those underneath it become the num-pad when you hold down "fn" if you ever need to use it. The idea that some laptops force you to toggle a num-pad on the keyboard on/off seems really annoying, and the extra space taken up by having a dedicated num-pad is a waste of space.

Why move your hand all the way over just to write numbers when they are just above the normal keys you are using? The arrangement is UPSIDE DOWN if you are used to using a telephone. I don't know, maybe it's for people who are used to using adding machines or calculators? I just use stuff on my PC for that, and again, I am typing with the number keys above the keyboard, near all the other keys I am using, I just have to reach a tiny bit higher with my fingers.

Maybe people with data entry jobs enjoy the num-pad, but I've never had to do that. Especially when coding, I prefer the top row, because I always need to type in some instructions or use the quotes or something like that anyway, and having symbols such as "&" closeby helps.

HalcyonX12 said,
Also, I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I can't stand to use the num-pad. The MacBook, you just hold down "fn" and you can use the arrow keys as PGUP/DN/HOME/END. The 7 8 9 buttons and those underneath it become the num-pad when you hold down "fn" if you ever need to use it. The idea that some laptops force you to toggle a num-pad on the keyboard on/off seems really annoying, and the extra space taken up by having a dedicated num-pad is a waste of space.

Why move your hand all the way over just to write numbers when they are just above the normal keys you are using? The arrangement is UPSIDE DOWN if you are used to using a telephone. I don't know, maybe it's for people who are used to using adding machines or calculators? I just use stuff on my PC for that, and again, I am typing with the number keys above the keyboard, near all the other keys I am using, I just have to reach a tiny bit higher with my fingers.

Maybe people with data entry jobs enjoy the num-pad, but I've never had to do that. Especially when coding, I prefer the top row, because I always need to type in some instructions or use the quotes or something like that anyway, and having symbols such as "&" closeby helps.


The numpad is great if you can use it. Everything is much faster compared to the number row on top. Anything from paying bills online to working in Excel is a breeze, it's not even a competition.

That said I use a desktop and I do think you generalize too much here since numpads on laptops only fit certain sizes of laptops unless you're shrinking the keyboard. I don't see how it's a waste of space though, not having it there on say a 17" laptop surely is a waste of space IMO.

I don't really understand what you mean by "force you to toggle a num-pad on the keyboard on/off", or did you mean that you don't like the "fn" option if there's not a dedicated numpad yet a dedicated numpad is a waste of space? I don't see how that's logical at all.

Seems someone is using Neowin as a soapbox for their personal mac obsession.

That said, they do it so ineffectively that if it isn't news, it is, at least, entertainment.

If you follow the logic presented, this guy's idea laptop isn't a computer at all - it is a oil painting in a sturdy frame that costs more than your watercolor painting in a less sturdy frame.

Really confirms the general opinion of Mac users rather than bringing anything new to the table. Sadly, this is why it isn't news.

Xepol said,
Sadly, this is why it isn't news.

No. It isn't news because it's an editorial.

Neowin posts editorials as well as news and reviews.

An editorial is an opinion piece, similar to a blog. That's what this is - an editorial. It isn't news but does Neowin just post news? No, it posts editorials and reviews, as well.

An editorial is an opinion piece, similar to a blog. That's what this is - an editorial. It isn't news but does Neowin just post news? No, it posts editorials and reviews, as well.

Editorials are nice when the author brings up good points. Unfortunately, I found little here other than the user seems to care more about the design of the laptop than anything else.

I mean, for me, design doesn't really matter so much as how it functions overall. I mean, for a desktop computer, I look for a case that can reduce noise of the interior fans, allows for good airflow, and easy access to reach whichever component I need to when upgrading, replacing or simply adding to the computer. Makes life easier for me. So what if it isn't "Best Looking Case of 2009!" It WORKS and doesn't take too much out of my wallet. Rasken brings up a good point about the design, considering the Macs have had some overheating issues as of late. Call me crazy but the "beauty" of your laptop doesn't mean jack when it doesn't work.

I focus on 3 things: the trackpad, the keyboard, and the screen. The design of a Mac is focused.

As do I with my desktop PC and my Sony Laptop, I focus on the screen, the keyboard, and the mouse/trackpad. If your only focusing on those few things why does it matter if your laptop may be a bit clunkier then others? The way your making the case out to be is if it was something you were to be staring at large amounts of the time, which by your own words is not the case. You are mainly focusing on the screen seeing as how nothing really else happens on a laptop other then your computer's OS on the screen.

So if your focusing on those three main things why act like other manufactures of laptops are "lower" then a macbook pro laptop?

Power simply isn't as important to me, it's more about the experience of using the power.

Your contradicting yourself in that sentence. Experiences comes with performance, performance aka power is needed to have a good experience. My laptop (Core2Duo) use to have 1GB of RAM on Vista/7 and I can honestly say that with Firefox (or IE8), Google Earth, and even just running just paint was far from a pleasant experience. Mind you that My laptop is a Sony Vaio so my case is just about as clean "looking" as compared to the Macbook Pro.

Now even though I only have a trackpad, keyboard, and screen in front of me I can say my experience wasn't doing so well because of my power. (Sense then have put in 2GBs, feels like a new PC)

But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper, that you would jump for the second laptop?

This is a bit of tough thing to compare, if your generally speaking, saying if I saw a sleek (Windows) laptop would I choose that over a more powerful thick (Windows) laptop the answer would be no. Say the sleek laptop came with 1GB of RAM and a (outdated) 1 Core CPU running Windows Vista while as the thick laptop was running 4GBs of RAM and a (newer) Core2Duo CPU running Windows Vista for $200 less, I'd most definitely go with the thick laptop to have a much better experience.

If you are comparing your Macbook Pro (OS X) as the sleek laptop compared to a thick more powerful (Windows) laptop, I'd rather not pick a choice as I have never used OS X in a normal day to day basis. So I have no way of knowing if a 1GB of RAM of OS X is the same as 1GB of RAM on Windows Vista, if the differences of how OS X performs with more/less power as compared to Windows Vista (I'm leaving out 7 for a reason) with more/less power are many/high it is kind of hard to compare the two now isn't it?

Even though I hate Macs, I can say that they do run well on 1 GB RAM, just like Vista runs on 2 GB.

Yet, most people run Windows on their Macs anyways, so it's gonna end up being outdated hardware.

andrewbares said,
Yet, most people run Windows on their Macs anyways, so it's gonna end up being outdated hardware.

I'm sorry but you obviously just pulled that statistic out of thin air. Yes Mac users can run Windows on their Macs via Virtulisation or Natively but to say most do so is an exaggeration.

Vice said,
I'm sorry but you obviously just pulled that statistic out of thin air. Yes Mac users can run Windows on their Macs via Virtulisation or Natively but to say most do so is an exaggeration.


I'm pretty confident in saying that most Mac users run Windows on their Macs. Idk though, I have no statistics.

I'm not surprised that there is a backlash like this over a positive Mac post on the front page. It has become all to common here. The hate is unjustified and even when the article is discussing more then just superficial looks and examining the attention to detail, high build quality and innovative construction methods the only posts here are 'This should be on your Blog' and 'Macs are just eye candy'.

I'm not sure what has caused this. Ignorance by the users here or Apples advertisements that take pot shots at PC's

I think probably a bit of both.

I don't think people are happy to be told 'pcs are not good', because that's what 90% of people around the world have and use everyday.
People would switch to Macs if they can be better than pcs, but as long as you can't do the same things on both machines, they're still two separate worlds.

Vice said,
I'm not sure what has caused this. Ignorance by the users here or Apples advertisements that take pot shots at PC's

I think probably a bit of both.

Only Mac user arrogance would assume that the 95% of us are ignorant of the difference between the niche Macs and the PCs that run the planet Earth.

Remember when PCs were "crap" because they used Intel chips and Macs were "the future" because they didn't?

Who turned out to be right? Not Jobs, Apple, Apple PR, or the Apple fanboys who parroted the Apple spin like it was the gospel according to Jobs.

I personally own BOTH systems and use them for different purposes, but 95% of what I do day to day is on a PC.

So what?!

Computers are TOOLS not religions. We're got enough of THAT type of ignorance already in the world, thank you very much. 8)

excalpius said,

Only Mac user arrogance would assume that the 95% of us are ignorant of the difference between the niche Macs and the PCs that run the planet Earth.

Remember when PCs were "crap" because they used Intel chips and Macs were "the future" because they didn't?

Who turned out to be right? Not Jobs, Apple, Apple PR, or the Apple fanboys who parroted the Apple spin like it was the gospel according to Jobs.

I personally own BOTH systems and use them for different purposes, but 95% of what I do day to day is on a PC.

So what?!

Computers are TOOLS not religions. We're got enough of THAT type of ignorance already in the world, thank you very much. 8)

I also own both systems. In-fact I own the latest PC equipment money can buy. And I didn't say anything about 95% of anyone is ignorant. Nor did I generalise about PC users. I said the users here on Neowin who are posting comments to this article. You however did generalise with 'Only Mac User arrogance' - What kind of hypocritical comment is that. You tell me off for saying that I think 95% of Computer Users are ignorant (Which I never said) But then say that view could only be held by a Mac user? - Kettle - Black.

Users in this comment thread are ignorant to Macs because they do not own them. Not all of the users. Some users in this thread that are reacting negatively to this post do own Macs however the ones I specifically pointed out in my post are bringing up things that are factually inaccurate about the Mac platform which clearly indicates they do not own Macs and/or are ignorant about their feature set.

Ok!

simon360 said,
I didn't say PC's are no good. So the drama here is completely unneeded.

Well, 'PCs are not good. Macs are.' is what comes out of Apple's advertisements.

I'm a pc lover, talking about laptops there are really cool one, just go to Japan to find a choice of hundreds of models we never see in Europe or US.
I don't care about the brand, if a pc looks cool I like it, that's it. It can be a Macbook, a Vaio or whatever. I think this is what most people think.

What I hate, it's all the fuss about Mac users trying to actually prove, every single time, that they are right to have a Mac. What is it, lack of confidence? Having a Mac it's as if it's the only thing that matters, as well as having an iPhone. I may even go against my will and get me an iPhone, it's like Facebook, everybody needs to be on it nowadays not to be 'left out'.

For a moment, let's try to think that Macbooks are actually cooler and better than other brands' laptops. Alright? Ok, it's like assuming than a Ferrari or a Porsche looks really better than any other car. Fine, I totally agree with it. The thing is, people with a Ferrari or a Porsche don't give a damn about proving that their Ferrari is much better than a Renault. They're probably too busy enjoying it, than going to every bar in the town and make everybody understand that their car is far better than normal ones.

I find it hard to understand: somehow having a Mac means starting a battle against every 'normal' pc/laptop user. It feels like it's a way for every Mac user to make it up with themselves for having spent more money just for the sake of showing it off to everyone.

Then of course, if you use it for work there's nothing to really care about the look. If you use it for everything but work, I feel almost sorry for you always having to deal with software not working on Macs.

Bottomline, I think Macbooks, Vaio and HP laptops look very nice. But if I get a Macbook, I would definitely double-boot it with Windows 7.

The Western world teaches us we are an Apple man, or a BMW guy, or a Gibson guy (guitars). And we make that part of our identities.

However, the worst part about it all is that people talk about these things as if they actually matter. They put enormous amounts of effort into them to no real end. Reminds me of how CNN ran a front page on Friday with more coverage (in terms of space) of the iPhone 3GS (which had a 'sleepy launch,' they admitted) than the Iran election.

Wait, I'm confused. When you roam the isles at Best Buy and FutureShop, most of the PC's you see are "ugly and impratical" (paragraph 4), yet "most are not [ugly]" (paragraph 8 )!? Which is it? I understand it's an opinion peice, but you seem to ramble without making a clear point.

I have a great amount of respect for one's opinion, however there is no need for a complete opinion piece on the front page of a news site.

Second, you seem to think that Macs need some sort of defense. Why? I am getting really sick of this Mac vs PC junk. You should use the OS that you find fits your needs the best and one that you like. Mac is acting like the prissy little girl on the playground; she thinks she is the prettiest and toughest, but one hit from the competition and she calls out all her friends to fight back.

I used to have respect for Apple. That was before they continued their ads where they not only bash the competition, but they forget to say why they are better. I'm sick of all the little Apple jabs at Microsoft all the time. "PC sucks, buy Mac!" My question is "Why? What makes your product better and can you tell me without totally insulting me?" Not until recently did Microsoft even think of fighting this stupid war of poking the competition and I really wish they would have just not stooped to Apple's level. If Apple's products were so better, we they wouldn't need the constant onslaught of attacks at Microsoft, their products would speak for them.

I subscribe to this site because I take Neowin as my favorite tech news site. I do not want pure, biased opinion on the front page listed as news.

Edit: I just wanted to note that also having the icon as the MacBook and not the "Editorial" icon is very deceptive.

+1 just another fanboi whinge i use what i use because it's what i like and it does what i want it to do i expect others to agree with me NO i dont do i poo hoo others because they dont use what i do NO i don't come neown staff religate this to a blog piece

JonathanMarston said,
Am I the only one that thinks that MacBooks look boring and ugly? And that garbage track pad doesn't do it any favors either...

+1

JonathanMarston said,
Am I the only one that thinks that MacBooks look boring and ugly? And that garbage track pad doesn't do it any favors either...

What is garbage about the Trackpad? It is one of the largest notebook finger Trackpads you can get and one of the most technically advanced. It shares the same technology as the iPhone/iPod Touch which have been regarded in the industry as having the most responsive and accurate finger-touch screens available. Indeed the Trackpad of the MacBook Pros are the benchmark that all other notebooks be judged.

Having one on my MacBook Pro myself I can attest that it feels very slick (like Teflon) is super accurate and the gestures work brilliantly every single time. I can also right click by just tapping 2 fingers instead of 1 and I can scroll both X and Y by placing two fingers on the trackpad and moving them in any direction I want.

Getting rid of the physical button was the best decision they ever made but you need to try it to know how good it is. I don't really have a comment about it being Glass as I believe Plastic could have worked just as well but I do like the wear resistance of the glass. On my older notebooks that have used plastic after years of use the plastic can wear from the oils of your hands and is definitely unappealing.

I have tried it. I don't like it.

First off, it's too big. It's hard to rest my hand on the notebook and use the pad at the same time as my other fingers tend to accidentally touch the pad while I try to use my index finger. Maybe it's just me, but the motion seems off somehow, as if I'm moving my finger and it's trying to guess at what I want it to do instead of just doing it (hard to describe). The gestures are unintuitive, and really sort of gimicky (we've always had right-click and scroll on touch pads).

I never have liked touch pads in general, but my (admittedly limited) experience with the MBP touch pad was undoubtedly the most frustrating. You obviously have had a different experience from mine - and I know many others disagree with me as well - I'm just stating my opinion based on my experience.

s3n4te said,
My Lenovo laptop has a magnesium chasis which is GREATER than the Mac's aluminum one.

Hard to beat the titanium sheathing on the Z60s though. I'd take one of those beauties over a MBP any day.

Too bad they don't make the Z series anymore, I love my Z61t. Also, why do you think they make high performance engine blocks out of Magnesium Alloy.

The real issue is that the piece doesn't actually address any practical reasons why the Mac body is getter than what you find in a PC.

1 - I've NEVER seen a piece of plastic that formed a laptop shell break. I've seen busted LCD panels because people closed one with a pen in there but never broken plastic.

2 - The rubber feet are usually under a laptop so that the cooling systems can suck in air from under the machine and expell it from the sides. Maybe there's a reason why some model macs have overheating issues...

3 - Buttons on the front or the side of the unit. *shrug* I don't particularly mind them but to each his own.

4 - You have a point with all the decals. They are annoying but this is a builder decision. If having a Windows and Intel sticker on the machine can reduce the price on the system at checkout by 100$, Fine by me.

All good points, I agree completely.

As to #3, I like more buttons, that means more funtionality, like how it's wayy easier to turn off WiFi, just a simple flick of the button! I don't even have to look!

Agree, I've had numerous, "inferior" laptops and none of the cases have broken even when dropped. Extra buttons often mean extra functionality, hardly a bad thing. My UK Apple keyboard doesn't even have a # key, is that progress? Don't get me started on those glossy mac screens.

Yes Macs look great but you really pay for it and, in the end, don't deliver any real advantages.

I bought my XPS 1530 for looks, performance, and price.

High resolution screen, brushed aluminum palmrest, a dense metal alloy chasis that can be used to smash skulls should the need arise. I like my capacitive touch buttons for controlling media players, my physical Wifi on/off switch on the side of the case, my fingerprint reader, HDMI out, S-video out, and compact remote control that slides into the case. And as for the excessive lighting, I have two LEDs on; one to indicate that the wireless switch is physically on, and the other to indicate that the machine is on.

On most of these switches, there is an orange or blue light that stares at you, and can easily light up a dark room.

You realize that the Apple logo on the back of a Macbook Pro lights up, right? Also, props to Sony, inventor of the chiclet style keyboard.

When I bought it, it had better specs than a Macbook Pro and cost 600$ less. But as a PC user, maybe I'm more sensitive to finding a sensible balance between aesthetics, build quality, and performance.

Your description reminds me of my HP laptop, Pavillion dv6000 Special Edition.
Pretty as heck. Capacitive media buttons, shiny case, embedded webcam, physical wi-fi switch, integrated media center remote control. No fingerprint reader though. Free high-capacity battery that lasts bloody ages.
And okay in terms of power. Plays fallout 3 on low with HDR.

I used to think HP was low end junk, but this thing is really sexy. I'm proud to walk around with it when I'm around Macbooks.

every manufacturer has its low cost min spec units but most also do high end cost a bucket load units too and alot inbetween it all depends on how much your wanting to pay and what your specificaly going to do with it

Or how about a thinkpad, IBM now Lenovo have known this all along and have been doing this for way longer than Apple.

Glass screen? What do you think a laptop screen is made out of, THEY ARE ALL MADE FROM GLASS! Find me out plastic laptop screen.

Lenovo thinkpads (except SL series) all have magnesium alloy "rollcages" that protect the computer from bumps providing stiffness which helps prevent the tracks breaking from the motherboard. I would say this subframe is far more mass optimal than the unibody mac. Then there is the use of CFRP as the outer chassis (yes it is plastic) which is lighter and more durable than the ABS plastic used by everyone else. There is a reason CFRP and GRP are used in boat building!

The legendary thinkpad keyboard? Do I dare to go on, in fact I hate the touch pad on apple laptops, the single mouse button feels very flimsy.

Then again there is a price premium on the thinkpads that are built like a tank as well. That's why the X300 won all the awards when put against the macbook air.

I know this has been said... but how exactly is this news? My opinion is macs aren't worth the extra cash... should that be on the front page now too? Or how, the customization for my laptop makes it far more superior than the MacBook Pro. This was a poor editorial but just another apple fan boy.

jase chaos said,
I know this has been said... but how exactly is this news? My opinion is macs aren't worth the extra cash... should that be on the front page now too? Or how, the customization for my laptop makes it far more superior than the MacBook Pro. This was a poor editorial but just another apple fan boy.

I really wish Neowin leadership would actually have the balls to delete articles outright when every reader comments about the article being very poor.

illz55 said,
I really wish Neowin leadership would actually have the balls to delete articles outright when every reader comments about the article being very poor.

Editorials are not an exercise in democracy.

Kirkburn said,
Editorials are not an exercise in democracy.

However, since it is an editorial, I expect it to discuss important issues in terms of technological advancements, recent announcements, or something of that sort. I should not have to read something which is basically a rant which has been all over the forums since day 1 of the macbook release. +1 on this being unworthy of editorial, worthy for blog.

Editorials aren't always news either. There should be a separate section for them, just like games/software/etc. They shouldn't be on the front page...especially if they're not pertaining to current events/announcements, but rather an author's opinion on what he likes in a computer.

Clearly I'm not alone in thinking this.

simon360 said,
If you don't think you should have to read it, don't.


The point is wheter this should be allowed on the front page with the rest of the real "news".

illz55 said,
I really wish Neowin leadership would actually have the balls to delete articles outright when every reader comments about the article being very poor.


+1 to everything you said! I didn't have "the balls" to say what you said, since I'm at a 40% warning, lol.

simon360 said,
If you don't think you should have to read it, don't.

How can one know beforehand that something isn't worthy of reading without reading it?

The Burning Rom said,
Editorials aren't always news either. There should be a separate section for them, just like games/software/etc. They shouldn't be on the front page...especially if they're not pertaining to current events/announcements, but rather an author's opinion on what he likes in a computer.

Clearly I'm not alone in thinking this.


Clearly the front page is for any type of article. Sure, the software and gamers news are under their own section, but some of those topics make the front page. The front page is where the best articles appear; that could be either a news article, a review or editorial.

Whether this is one of the better articles, or not, is subject to opinion. I think it is a very good article and an issue which needed to be brought up as I go on looks when buying a laptop or computer.

I think a lot of people disagreeing with this editorial are just jumping on the bandwagon.

illz55 said,
I really wish Neowin leadership would actually have the balls to delete articles outright when every reader comments about the article being very poor.

But every reader hasn't commented on the article being poor, have they?

I haven't and a couple of other members haven't. I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon.

This is a very important issue when it comes to buying a new laptop. I know I go on looks mainly.

As for deleting the articles? As one of our editors said - we don't delete articles or editorials just because some members disagree with the article or editorial. Why should we? Not everyone is going to agree.

If it doesn't interest you, why comment? If you disagree with what the editorial is saying, why not just join in and be a part of a meaningful discussion on the issue?

solid block of aluminum eh? toss it at a wall and see how many parts fly off lol
why is this kind of article allowed :P

oh jesus, the author is 17 years old... that can't be right is it? where are the standards at... *facepalm

"A lot of what I'm saying is, admittedly, based entirely on opinion. But can you honestly say that if you saw a sleek, good-looking laptop that feels perfect for you, and another laptop that was twice as thick, had blaring fans, but also packed a more powerful processor and was $200 cheaper, that you would jump for the second laptop?" ... uh, yes, i like $ and i like to spend it wisely :P

"As a Mac user, I might be a bit more sensitive to these matters. Maybe I pay that extra $200 because I'm far too anal about the design. But the design is what you use. Power simply isn't as important to me, it's more about the experience of using the power." ... lol what? :P the experience of using the power you just gave up for vanity? can you say fail, can you try? in the event you can't do that, http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=fail&submit=Submit

some youths are smart, majority are pretty wonky... author (the Mac user) appears to be the latter of the two if his editorial is in fact his own view, thats my opinion

Still though, the fact that you had to check up on how old he is to validate his editorial is pretty pathetic if you ask me. I agree with parts of his editorial and I'm a little over two years his elder... am I also a "wonky youth" as you put it?

age shouldn't matter...After all we have a show called "are you smarter than a 5th grader"...

Having said that, I still think that the author has a crush on his MAC.

Well... If you have the money, then a Macbook Pro is the way to go, I think. But it's really annoying that, in 4 years or a little more, that wonderful piece of hardware is obsolete. That's really sad. You can't compare that to a beautiful car (not that you did it).

Luis Mazza said,
Well... If you have the money, then a Macbook Pro is the way to go, I think. But it's really annoying that, in 4 years or a little more, that wonderful piece of hardware is obsolete. That's really sad. You can't compare that to a beautiful car (not that you did it).

That's exactly the logical point about laptops. Unless you have the skills to manually upgrade your own laptop, it's wise to always buy a cheap laptop that just suits your needs, because you will have to get a new one in a few years time. Besides, it's not like you're in some exclusive club when you have a "cool" Apple designed laptop. That's just BS. Tons of students have them and I don't see anyone giving them more respect or attention.

I think most "enthusiasts" or "power users" would agree that if you do need a laptop, you spend the least you can on it, and save your money on buying a really nice PC desktop setup that you can upgrade in the future. At least, that's how I feel about it given everything that is possible on computers today, and not just gaming.

I dont use a desktop machine anymore. I ditched that around 5 years ago when i got my first laptop. I would much rather spend an extra few quid on a good laptop that put up with a machine that barely gets the job done.

Applesauce. I can afford anything in the world, and Apple has even GIVEN me computers in the past, but when I spend my own money, I buy SONY.

Sony gives you best in class engineering AND design (Apple only rivals Sony on the design front) as well as far better features and specs for a lower price than Apple.

And Sony is a premium PC brand. I could get better price/performance with Toshiba etc. but I love the look of the Sony's and Apple's better.

I think HP pcs have a great design. Nothing could compare to my old ZT3000, it was sleek, consistent and only had 3 buttons: power, wireless and sound. Included Harmon Kardon speakers and Hitachi lcd. Unfortunately, construction quality was not as solid as it looked (among others things, the internal vga cable was a bit problematic...)

And of course I would buy the more powerful, cheaper laptop. I'm not superficial enough to just buy a cool looking laptop. (my opinnion, but I bet many agree)

andrewbares said,
And of course I would buy the more powerful, cheaper laptop. I'm not superficial enough to just buy a cool looking laptop. (my opinnion, but I bet many agree)


And if you have the money you can do both... design AND hardware... two words... Falcon Northwest.

csin said,

They offer nowhere near the specs or customization FN notebooks have.

You do know that both just get their barebones on Clevo and rebrands it.

Sorry, but in my opinion, Macs suck compared to PCs. Sure they look good, and that "o so strong" case can be handy... but what good is buying a Firrari if it has a Geo Metro engine in it that only one mechanic can work on?

I can customize my laptop as much as I want... if I want a tough case, I can buy one. If I want buttons all over it I can buy one like that too... If I want to change the RAM, HDD, Video Card, and LAN card in my laptop i can do that too... Can you do that with your rotten apple?

I can change the RAM and HDD on my Mac laptop. Plus, I don't really give a damn about performance. I'm a designer, and I'd rather spend my time designing and blogging rather than digging in my machine's innards. I want a machine that looks good and gets the job done, and the MacBook Pro fits the description pretty well.

I want the same thing but don't want to pay too much, have the ability to upgrade down the line, and run the majority of software and games.

DanielZ said,
I can change the RAM and HDD on my Mac laptop. Plus, I don't really give a damn about performance. I'm a designer, and I'd rather spend my time designing and blogging rather than digging in my machine's innards. I want a machine that looks good and gets the job done, and the MacBook Pro fits the description pretty well.

I think that says it all right there. Im an 'engineer' so does the fact that choose speed over looks matter? You say your a designer, so speed should matter, I would rather have a machine that could rotate my 1GB PDF file 1 degree quickly, than churn its **** off trying to do it.

Most cases sit on the floor, under a desk, you LOOK at the monitor, not the case, you look at a keyboard too, or possibly your mouse, function over form 100% of the time.

You Mac users **** me off, you write so-called editorial opinion peices then moan when they get picked to peices due to the average 'fan boy' nature of Mac Users,

Macs are Macs, PC's are PC's. Most people prefer a PC running Windows over a Mac, get over it, your a minority, stop trying to convince the world and yourself that your overpriced PC with an Apple on it is better than anything by HP, or Dell, or any other manufacturer.

Milamber said,
Most cases sit on the floor, under a desk, you LOOK at the monitor, not the case, you look at a keyboard too, or possibly your mouse, function over form 100% of the time.

Just because you do that, it doesn't mean others do. Some others do, yes, but not everyone.

The author stated that this article was mainly about laptops and I can assure you that the whole laptop is in my line of site whilst I'm typing away.

DanielZ said,
I can change the RAM and HDD on my Mac laptop. Plus, I don't really give a damn about performance. I'm a designer, and I'd rather spend my time designing and blogging rather than digging in my machine's innards. I want a machine that looks good and gets the job done, and the MacBook Pro fits the description pretty well.

For "getting the job done" any laptop that meets the minimum hardware requirements of your software would do it. However, the time it would take to get it done should matter to you as you said you are a designer.
I understand that looks are important to you, but I think that most people are looking for a balance between performance and looks.

Any time, I would give up on looks rather than performance. I would buy a Windows laptop with more RAM or more HDD space that one that has fewer switches or lights.

In all kinds of posts like this, people always forget to mention that there is a more important thing to consider: Operative Systems.

I don't buy Macs because I prefer Windows. Depending on what the user is trying to do with their computers, they should choose the OS that fits them, not the hardware that comes with them.

Even if someone produced the nicest and more powerful (with the best bang-for-your-buck ratio) laptop with Mac OS or Ubuntu, I would look for something with Windows installed on it just because of what I do with it.

tehkubix said,
Shouldn't this sort of stuff be in your blog or something? How is this news?

I totally agree. A very poor editorial piece. We would have thousands of these if this is the standard set now. Your entire premise fails because you are only considering cases that major manufacturers use. What about all the custom cases out there that you can get (and I don't mean by building your own PC, just by asking the retailer to make you a custom build). And Apple's peripherals such as their keyboard and mice have never been considered better or superior to non-Apple counterparts. But anyway, as you said, it's all opinion. I do think a good case is worth the money. In fact, I got a Cooler Master Cosmos for my latest PC. And while an aluminum/steel case is better than plastic, I would never pay $200 more for an Apple computer when I can't even upgrade what is inside the case!

This doesn't seem like news, more like "trolling", saying that the lights on PC's can light up an entire room. I can talk trash about Macs too, but I restrain (right now, lol)

simon360 said,
We're talking about laptops here... there are only major manufacturers for laptops.

From what I read, you mention "PC Cases" several times and never really state that you are *only* discussing laptop case designs. You used the Macbook laptop as an example. For laptops, you may be more on the right track with Apple vs. non-Apple designs and durability etc. Then again, it is probably still not worth $200 unless you have extra cash and there are still great cases in terms of both design and durability, noise etc. by major manufacturers.

simon360 said,
We're talking about laptops here... there are only major manufacturers for laptops.


NOT TRUE... Do your homework.

I'm talking about practically. You're not going to build your own laptop in most cases, even if you're an advanced user. You're probably not even going to get it built by your local shop. It'll be made by a third party of some sort.

No..I don't make a choice solely based on looks or power. And I own a thinkpad t400, thinkpad x200 tablet and a macbook pro...And, I love the tablet much more than macbook pro...
But anyways what are you trying to say? Are you saying you got better taste because you choose Mac? I can't understand the point in this article. Send it to trash!

tehkubix said,
Shouldn't this sort of stuff be in your blog or something? How is this news?

It's not.

Neowin need to change their title to:

Neowin: Where unprofessional journalism looks like unprofessional journalism

Yet again, Mac user talks according to what Apple said to him instead of checking real facts.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/03/26/rescuecom_report/

Asus has stolen the top spot from Apple in a report that assesses the reliability of top PC manufacturer's machines.

Put together by US PC repair and support firm Rescuecom, the league table was topped by Asus with a whopping 972 reliability points. Apple, now in second place, scored just 324 points.

But the real winner is Lenovo, which scored 348 points this time around, just ahead of Apple's 324 points.

Huh? So Asus scored 972 points so they're first, fine. Apple are in 2nd place, fine. But then Lenovo scored more points than Apple. So what position are Lenovo in?

Just read the article, so they put Lenovo in joint first with Asus. Well that means Apple's in 3rd place then....

Sparky101 said,
Huh? So Asus scored 972 points so they're first, fine. Apple are in 2nd place, fine. But then Lenovo scored more points than Apple. So what position are Lenovo in?

Just read the article, so they put Lenovo in joint first with Asus. Well that means Apple's in 3rd place then....


In any case, Apple is not the most reliable brand, as fan boys say.

HP
Acer
DELL
LG
Lenovo
Toshiba
Panasonic
ASUS
Sony
MSI
Archos < digging their upcoming netbook

i could go on but i guess when one thinks they have only one choice, what are you gonna do? lol