Neowin.net - MS accused of banning mod chip Xbox from Live service

MS accused of banning mod chip Xbox from Live service

Posted by Daniel Fleshbourne on 19 November 2002 - 18:27 · 55 comments & 1478 views

Microsoft's campaign against Xbox mod chips has ratcheted up a notch with the launch of the Xbox Live online gaming service. According to a posting at Got Mod?, (there's a site that's going to be pretty concerned about the issue) the company is attempting to detect mod chips when users connect, then placing them on a banned list - forever.

If this really is the case then it means we're already seeing how unique hardware IDs could be used in anger by certain companies. Because it's the unique ID of the Xbox that's claimed to go onto the banned list.

The Got Mod? poster says that after persistent connectivity problems (which we hear exist for people who don't have mod chips fitted too) he called up the support line and confessed to a rep that he'd modded his Xbox. The rep seems to have been equally upfront; he said he'd been issued with an 'idiot sheet' (these exist in practically all front line support callcentres) intended to deal with questions in this area.

He explained that the mod chip is detected when you connect to Xbox Live, and that your machine's ID is then read, and added to a banned list. Even if you remove the mod chip, he said, your machine cannot be unbanned, as it's Microsoft's belief that it can never be seen as trustworthy again.

View: The full story

News source: The Reg

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(1 reply) #1 Posted by Spyder on 19 Nov 2002 - 18:44: hahahahahahahaha wait theres more HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

#2 Posted by ramesees on 19 Nov 2002 - 18:47: Isn't this the same as people who have cracked copies of Counterstrike etc... being refused multiplayer access on the CS servers ??

#3 Posted by Jon on 19 Nov 2002 - 18:58: Exactly what I was thinking ramesees, I can't see where the problem is. They have every right to do this. [quote]Even if you remove the mod chip, he said, your machine cannot be unbanned, as it's Microsoft's belief that it can never be seen as trustworthy again. [/quote] Extreme, but within their rights, and understandable. Pay for their products, and you can use their services. I can't see the problem with them protecting this principle.

#4 Posted by sodapop on 19 Nov 2002 - 19:21: This is one case that I have to agree :disappoin with microsoft on. mod chips while beneficial are used mostly for software piracy and may have an unfair advantage in the service that microsoft ia offering.

#5 Posted by seesaw on 19 Nov 2002 - 19:30: I agree with microsoft with this one it would really suck if people started cheating using mods when playing xbox live. If they want to use a mod buy another xbox.

Last edited by 18607 on 19 Nov 2002 - 19:36

#6 Posted by stncttr908 on 19 Nov 2002 - 19:47: This is true. My friend has a modded box and has been blocked. However, his mods are not for cheating purposes. He is just experimenting with adding his WD 40GB drive to the system, etc etc. So I find that unfair. I believe that a user should be blocked upon documentation of their offenses.

(2 replies) #7 Posted by dduardo on 19 Nov 2002 - 19:59: I think this move by microsoft is just the being. They might implement this technology into their pallidium to limit the freedoms of users. If i bought an Xbox, I want to be able to do anything I want to do to it: Throw it, smash it, mod it, whatever. It's like saying you bought a car (Xbo but can't add an anything. Sure the car (Xbox will start and work in your driveway(Home), but they won't let you drive it in the streets (Internet). Its mine, i bought it, I can do anything to it. if they are pricing their products so low that they aren't making a profit, to bad for them. Its also their problem if they can't stop cheating. I don't understand this licensing mentally that the tech industry has. If im going to lay down hard cash, i wan't to own it, not rent it. The real reason they are doing this is because they can't make a decent product and now the economy is suffer because of stupidity. Sorry for venting my frustiontions, im just tired of companies taking advantage of consumers.

#8 Posted by smek on 19 Nov 2002 - 20:04: TBH msoft are just doing this cos they cant stop people using there OS's illegaly and playing games online! msoft have the power so they are using it!

#9 Posted by Nija on 19 Nov 2002 - 20:17: So fucking owned. let me add another "haha" to this thread. haha

(2 replies) #10 Posted by superfula on 19 Nov 2002 - 20:28: Who thinks M$ will get sued over this? :raises hand:

(1 reply) #11 Posted by trance on 19 Nov 2002 - 20:47: IN the EULA it says that you may not modify, reverse engineer or tamper with the product. So they are well within their rights for intellectual property. If the mod chips evolve to allow cheating during online games, then that is bad for everyone. If you want to mod an Xbox, fine, but know that you can't use Live with it. They won't get sued because it is their right to say who has been cheating. However, the perm ban list may be a bit far. It should detect that there isn't a mod chip and allow you back in.

(2 replies) #12 Posted by NeoTrunks on 19 Nov 2002 - 21:11: I'll never buy a system that I'll never be able to fully own.

#13 Posted by Septimus on 19 Nov 2002 - 21:23: HAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAAAAAAA Funny.... typical M$. But its in their right.

#14 Posted by tmaxxtigger on 19 Nov 2002 - 21:39: Go Microsoft! Great move!

(3 replies) #15 Posted by scoult01 on 19 Nov 2002 - 21:49: and so begins the downfall of the xbox, LONG LIVE THE PC!! You would think that if you've payed for something, that you are able to do whatever you want with it. Microsoft do not own the Xbox after you buy it, YOU do. Again the problem come down to money, m$ have already got enough of the shit, why do they persist in charging $100+ for xbox games (in australia). The average person doesnt have enough money to just go out and buy 3/4 games they like. but hey what can u do...

#16 Posted by BroChaos on 19 Nov 2002 - 22:54: i wonder if this "detection" is 100% correct. what's gonna happen when the ban someone who is legit?

#17 Posted by neo1980 on 19 Nov 2002 - 23:09: You can mod as much as you can, but you are not harming the Xbox, you are harming the game developers who make games and with mods, copies of those games are being played, Xbox can be brought, not copied, but the games are copied and msot of the games are made not my microsoft but by other companies

#18 Posted by miguelcanada on 19 Nov 2002 - 23:21: Way to go microsoft! by the way do you fully own the system.. you can do what you want.. you just cant mod it and expect to play the games you didnt pay for on there network! AWESOME... BUAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

(2 replies) #19 Posted by twist on 19 Nov 2002 - 23:24: actually what you do after you buy the xbox is none of m$ fucking bussiness, its your's you can do what ever you want to it. mod'n a machine is by no ways illegal. copyin copywritten material is though. there is a difference. personally i could care less since i don't even care about xbox live but they have no right to ban you for something you've done to YOUR machine. it'd be like m$ banning you from windows update for using a hacked uxtheme file. if thjey can detect if the game is an illegal copy then fine, ban em. otherwise it doesn't matter. i say < month before an undetecable chip comes out anyways.

#20 Posted by lexor on 19 Nov 2002 - 23:37: didn't like half of those mod chips claimed to be undetectable anyway? what happened? or is it a specific chip problem?

#21 Posted by azn_ricer on 19 Nov 2002 - 23:49: I say ms is right this time and i stand with em 100% People use these mod chips to play their burnt games which is illegal, and the odds of them having cops knocking on these people's door and fine them or arrest them for using pirated software is very very very slim...wait...i dont think i've ever heard that before. This is a good move made by Microsoft. Its pretty much punishing its users with a $300 fine(to get a new xbo for using illegal products. to you people cheating the software industry.

#22 Posted by tagler on 20 Nov 2002 - 01:25: i disagree, if i got a mod chip i would want to use it to play software like emulators and linux stuff, not pirated games. so thats what i think its kinda unfair... and this adds one more to my list of reasons why not to get a x box

(1 reply) #23 Posted by Osiris on 20 Nov 2002 - 01:46: LOL I wouldnt worry anyway ppl, in Australia the Supreme Court Rules that ppl could Mod there PS2's legally so someone will bring this case forward when XBOX live gets to Australia, and no doubt based on the Sony Case, XBOX will probably be allowed to be legally modded, and if MS ban ppl based on that after that ruling, then they would again be breaking the law, thats all based on if it came to Australia, you know us AUssies where 3 years behind in getting things here. None the less my favourite part of this artlice "The console, can never be trustworthy again" lol doesnt it get a second chance lol

(3 replies) #24 Posted by intensityx on 20 Nov 2002 - 01:54: I think it's great. This levels the playing field so we won't have to worry about cheaters on Xbox Live. It makes Xbox Live that much more attractive.

#25 Posted by aisoku on 20 Nov 2002 - 02:09: microsoft made the right decision this time. i hate to imagine xbox live fillled with cheaters. (remember cs?)

(1 reply) #26 Posted by fughidabowit on 20 Nov 2002 - 02:17: you guys are all idiots. it specifically sais in the EULA that you cannot modify the xbox...do you speak english? can you read it? can you understand it? yes. modding is perfectly legal. there is nothing wrong with it. BUT, using it in a context that VOILATES the EULA terminates your rights to use the XBox Live service. its simple. they are trying to protect their assets - and their asses. if you chose to modify your xbox, you have the potential to RUIN the xbox live service (cheats; illegal software). I stand by MS 100%. Great service. Great system. Great idea to ban modders.

(1 reply) #27 Posted by Osiris on 20 Nov 2002 - 03:10: I dont have an XBOX so this is of little concern to me, but doesnt just about eveerything these days have an License agreement, or a EULA Wouldnt the Ps2 have one? and if a EULA said, by purchasing this product you agree to its terms and conditions and will devote yourself to Osama Bin Laden, would you still follow the EULA? im not picking at anyone, just raising some points.

(2 replies) #28 Posted by Drestin on 20 Nov 2002 - 04:10: Allow me to chime in with the vast majority of the world in congradulating MS in doing the right thing and setting the right precident for all other online gaming to come. I pray for the day that ALL online gaming does MD-5 checksums on clients and Keribos authentication before allowing a client to connect to a server to play a game. While some see it as great that MS can protect it's intellectual property (and why not) I personally see the benefit as KNOWING that there is no cheating through mods and hacks going on. Why would anyone want to play in a world where people could have mod chips that allow them to cheat undetected against you? Cheating ruins every multiplayer game - this reduces the chances of cheating dramatically. I totally welcome this move. I hope and pray that doom III multiplayer has ultra solid anticheat protection built in too.

(1 reply) #29 Posted by nonick on 20 Nov 2002 - 11:57: BUY PS2 XBOX BLOWS

#30 Posted by tHaCuBe on 20 Nov 2002 - 12:40: i also agree with M$ on this one, modding shouldnt be a problem for single player games, but when it comes to multiplayer its good to have it controlled. this is also a good way for them to control the modding in some way. good system, cant wait for unreal championship

#31 Posted by BroChaos on 20 Nov 2002 - 21:47: the EULA violates fair use rights then. there are legal uses of a mod chip, and like twist said, modding isn't illegal-burning copyrighted material is. i can see this getting overturned. also, there is the probability of false detection.

#32 Posted by Osiris on 21 Nov 2002 - 01:19: yep, well said BroChaos, its definitely a good way of stopping cheating and to a degree piracy etc, but it raises some definitive other issues along with it.

#33 Posted by mpenza on 21 Nov 2002 - 03:46: Why do you think it will get overturned? They are not preventing you from modding your XBox. You can still do that and the XBox will still play games. They are preventing you from connecting to their PRIVATE network. You did not buy the XBox Live! network when you bought your XBox. No, you pay a subscription fee for the priviledge of accessing the network. If Microsoft had completely disabled modded XBox's then I could see where your coming from. So good for Microsoft - when you sell hardware at a loss (and yes, a 733PIII, 64MB RAM, 9GB HD, network, controller, etc... for $200 plus free games is at a loss) you need to protect your interests and ensure that you make your money off the sale of games.

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