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[neoquote=#1.0 by xStainDx]Key Term... Preliminary Injunction.[/neoquote] What does that mean exactly?

means it just the beginning.. this doesn't mean that this is a final decision.

one world : appeal. works everytime

I hope Sun failes, upon appeal. I don't want their code on my machine.

You can turn the Java Console off via the Control Panel in Windows. Java creates a control panel icon for it's plug-in and (As far as I know this applies to the newer 1.4.x as well, I'm only using 1.3. in the "Basic" tab you can tell it to not show/start the Java Console. Java Console is about the only thing that bothers me about Java. Otherwise, it's just another necessity and promotes a unified Java, not Microsoft's own embraced and extended version. Hope that helps.

amen- that pisses me the hell off- i unistalled xp for that reason alone- 2k still has the ms version of java on it. i think its a bit sad really- That the law courts have to be invloved in a place which simply should be governed by markets. If people dont want MS to stop shipping java - they would make this clear by not buying the product. However, we can see that they dont care or are indifferent to this fact- and hence are just as happy with the MS version.

[neoquote=#3.0 by Ravager]You know what's funny? Sun Systems has to sue Microsoft to get people to use their products. That's low... that's really low.[/neoquote] They're suing to make sure MS honors the contract they signed with Sun a long time ago. They're legally in the right. MS has also released a sh1tty old VM under the Java name, creating compatibility problems.

NO they're NOT. They also sued MS to STOP distributing MS' Java VM. When MS did, they realized they made a mistake.

Would you mind pointing out where the Judge's bias is evident? In handing down a ruling one cannot simply say "Well I don't believe this but here's my ruling" you know.

no but you sure can bend things to make them say what you want

jesus- look at Judge Jackson (?ms antitrust chap is whom i intend) - they turned the tables on him.

the bias is evident in the fact that the Judge called MS a monopoly, since there the previous rulling about MS anti-trust case was overthrown, MS is officially no monopolly, thus the judge oversteped boudaries of his urisdiction, since the trial was not to determine if MS a monopoly or not.

Sorry lexor but the Antitrust trials did conclude that Microsoft was a monopoly that had abused it's status. It just didn't agree with what the nine remaining states wanted and thus settle on the agreement the DoJ had reached with Microsoft.

[neoquote=#5.1 by OddFox]Would you mind pointing out where the Judge's bias is evident? In handing down a ruling one cannot simply say "Well I don't believe this but here's my ruling" you know. [/neoquote] where his public comments where comparing Microsoft to Tonya Harding. instead of hearing all the evidence before he reached a decision or OPINION of what he thought about one side, he had already labeled Microsoft as a bad sort. so he was probably biased in his thinking against Microsoft when he made this decision. it doesn't matter cause one judge made that mistake and got overruled. apparently not all judges learned from that.

Your analogies are flawed: Macdonalds did not try to make digustingly Whoppers and pass them off as Burger King burgers. Secondly, Microsoft did not break any contracts they had with AOL. As much as Sun was opposed to open source (they are starting to open up) they're tactics have changed and actually have become more ethical and morally correct. I suppose corporations get more wiser when they are at the bottom Sorry for the harsh comment I just really despise comments from people who have no decent background in developing Java applications. I would like to hear opinions from some Sun Java professionals

So do tell me what I do for a job, as you can tell me I don't do Java development from a small sentence ? Mearly stating that its wrong to be forced to include some one elses product in your one.

Yes I can tell, because you would know the history & difference between the SUN Java VM and Microsoft's Java VM. You are partially correct (IMHO) that it is wrong to be forced to include some one else's product into your own but in this case, Microsoft had a contract with Sun and they broke it entirely. Instead of forcing Microsoft to put in Sun's Java Technology, Microsoft SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DEVELOP SIMILIAR TECHNOLOGY!!!! *cough* .net Framework *cough* Of course, Microsoft fanboys will disagree, stating it will hinder innovation or some microsoft propaganda, although Microsoft sued lindows for its "similiar" name Not saying Lindows is similiar to windows, I despise Lindows too Just making my point that Microsoft's Tactics are immoral and unethical. Tim Robbins in Anti-Trust truely portrays who Billy Gates really is.

"Instead of forcing Microsoft to put in Sun's Java Technology, Microsoft SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DEVELOP SIMILIAR TECHNOLOGY!!!! *cough* .net Framework *cough*" So, in your world, Sun is exempt from competition. Isn't this a bit hypocritical? Considering .Net is all MS programming languages. If you'd studied, you'd see C# is only a small part of it. Tim Robbins has an axe to grind any kind of corporate success. Sheesh.

[neoquote=#7.3 by aleks]Microsoft SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DEVELOP SIMILIAR TECHNOLOGY!!!! *cough* .net Framework *cough*[/neoquote] lol how stupid. your saying they should not be allowed to compete?? so if AOL made a new form of high speed connection that was cheap and Microsoft could do it better, you would say no they shouldn't be able to develop something similar to this??? now does that make sense?? and you mention lindows. there is a difference between competing, hindering competition. and using a name that people recognize (Windows) in terms of computer software to sell something that is similar (Lindows). it would be like me selling a software product called Bolaris lol. hmm i wondered if i'd get sued for that???

Last edited by 16693 on 24 Dec 2002 - 06:51

Cant you see my point, Microsoft .NET Will be successful due to Microsoft breaking their contract with Sun in regards to Java. So what Microsoft can do what they like? Break contracts? Do what they please? If the government hinders them, Microsoft will just pay their way out? An eye for an eye. Let them not compete in this area. Let them not have this area of the market!

[neoquote=#7.5 by macrosslover]lol how stupid. your saying they should not be allowed to compete?? so if AOL made a new form of high speed connection that was cheap and Microsoft could do it better, you would say no they shouldn't be able to develop something similar to this??? now does that make sense?? and you mention lindows. there is a difference between competing, hindering competition. and using a name that people recognize (Windows) in terms of computer software to sell something that is similar (Lindows). it would be like me selling a software product called Bolaris lol. hmm i wondered if i'd get sued for that???[/neoquote] Why cant you see the bigger picture? 1) Microsoft developed a "broken" implementation of Sun's Java VM which was not updated since 1997 (well besides the fixes to the huge backdoors -- those backdoors or "holes" were bigger than any goatse ive seen) 2) Again, I repeat myself, they broke the contract with Sun to get grounds with .NET 3) from 2) breaking the contract led to Sun's loss in the market. The point im making is that if Microsoft tactics hinders FAAAIRRRRR competition in the market. The government should do something about it. Like excluding Microsoft in this area. Regarding the Lindows comment.... Bolaris... LOL thats hilarious (no sarcasim) Although my hatred for solaris is making CDE the default window manager

[neoquote=#7.7 by aleks]Why cant you see the bigger picture? 1) Microsoft developed a "broken" implementation of Sun's Java VM which was not updated since 1997 (well besides the fixes to the huge backdoors -- those backdoors or "holes" were bigger than any goatse ive seen) 2) Again, I repeat myself, they broke the contract with Sun to get grounds with .NET 3) from 2) breaking the contract led to Sun's loss in the market. The point im making is that if Microsoft tactics hinders FAAAIRRRRR competition in the market. The government should do something about it. Like excluding Microsoft in this area. Regarding the Lindows comment.... Bolaris... LOL thats hilarious (no sarcasim) Although my hatred for solaris is making CDE the default window manager [/neoquote] well to my knowledge about the agreement, the Microsoft VM ran java perfectly fine. i never had a problem with it. i think Sun's initial problem was that Microsoft developed it better than they did. and i REMEMBER when Sun won a settlement of $20 million from Microsoft, they were elated about the decision. so Microsoft is just abiding by that agreement. Sun asked them not to ship their VM and so they say they wouldn't, but now Sun is bitching and complaining. and bigger picture?? yeah i can see the bigger picture, if you can't stand compete you go to the courts. it's over the Titanic is going down, and nothing the Captain can do will save it, don't try to bring everybody else down. and excluding meaning preventing a sofware company from making software is anticompetitive. saying you can ship your software, but then you must do this with another persons software in the name of competition is an another thing. but oh well like i said, i'm not worried cause it's going to get appealed. Microsoft has like a perfect record on appeals. and it's not necessarily the decision that pisses me off, it's the fact that sun wants it to be installed by default. WTF...what was that mess they were saying about consumer choice lol???

Not a single shred of untruth in the whole post.

So MS is doing the same as every other company.. I don't see the point Sun would've done exactly the same had they been in the same position. Now they're just whining cause they aren't. Hypocrites is all I can say..

Did you even [b]READ[/b] the second paragraph?! I don't see any other companies destroying a cross-platform and great programming language to further their own monopolies, do you? This isn't healthy competition, this is unfair destruction of an original and great implementation of an idea that Sun had finally pulled off, and the Microsoft went and [i]ruined[/i] it with their Embrace and Extend. They took control of Java from Sun by making their VM Windows-specific and thus much of the internet followed their lead, developing for Microsoft's faster, yet restricted VM. They violated the contract they signed with Sun agreeing to keep the integrity of Java sound if they developed their own Virtual Machine. Get it yet?

Every company wants to get as big a marked part as possible. Wether that meaning destroying other companies or not. Of course the actions needs to be within the law. And that was also why MS was ordered to stick to the Sun specifications of Java. HOWEVER deciding to remove Java from Windows is in their rights. It's their product and I cant see why other companies should get the benefit of promoting their software for free. That's their own damn job and if they can't do it then they can just go away.. If Sun is given this free promotion of Java then every other company should be given the same possibilities. That would be nice. Your Windows copy on 100 CDs.. no thx...

Last time I checked Sun's Java wasn't tightly integrated with the base OS to the point of being unremovable.

[neoquote=#10.0 by aleks]I hate all your M$ FANBOY comments.... "I dont want sun's VM -- Its Slow and LAGGY" "I Dont want it in my system tray" "Sun have to sue to get their products used" Sure but you dont have any problem with Microsoft's VM which had recently announced huge backdoors/holes in it.[/neoquote] speaking for me personally i don't want ANYTHING java related on my computer. that even includes Microsoft's VM. i prefer flash. it is MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!! better

Heh thats a fair comment But Java is not all about applets.. You can develop full scale applications! I dont know if its fair to compare java vs flash.... I certainly would not utilize java to develop 3D web interfaces w/ complex animations.

Right. And that .net framework crap is like a 15 MB download too. Obviously, MS doesn't like the idea of making efficient, compact/leaner code.

No doubt they'll integrate it into further Windows releases. Check out .net SDK size 100 MB+

this is actually fun. it's funny to see all the Sun and Java fanboys waste their time attacking Microsoft, when Macromedia and flash are just destroying java. speaking from my own personal experience. all the multimedia sites that i go to use flash, i haven't been to one that uses Java in over 2 years, and that's not by my choice. the best thing Microsoft can do with Macromedia is to let them run java into the ground and then buy the company. don't buy them beforehand.

[neoquote=#13.1 by macrosslover]this is actually fun. it's funny to see all the Sun and Java fanboys waste their time attacking Microsoft, when Macromedia and flash are just destroying java. speaking from my own personal experience. all the multimedia sites that i go to use flash, i haven't been to one that uses Java in over 2 years, and that's not by my choice. the best thing Microsoft can do with Macromedia is to let them run java into the ground and then buy the company. don't buy them beforehand.[/neoquote] *sigh*

hey no denying the truth. Scottie is going to let his jealous of Gates destroy his company. instead of working on the real dangers. making better products, focusing on linux (thwarting it) and flash. he needs to ask himself why are his sales so low. and it isn't because everybody is going to Wintel solutions because they are cheaper, at least not only that.

I like your comparison. Pisses me off that that only Coke is available at places like that. I want my Mountain Dew Code Red.

[neoquote=#16.0 by hardgiant]M$ signed the contract and then violated the terms of the contract. So they get sued. [/neoquote] you mention the contract...well tell me what was the contract?? enlighten me