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Microsoft appeals Java ruling

Daniel Fleshbourne   on 23 January 2003 - 09:50 · 37 comments & 1146 views

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Microsoft asked a federal appeals court on Wednesday to shelve a lower court order that would force it to start incorporating Sun Microsystems' Java programming language in its Windows operating system. The world's largest software company filed an emergency motion with the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., seeking a stay of the Java must-carry order until the court considers its challenge of the order.

In the motion, Microsoft's lawyers asked for an expedited hearing of the lower-court ruling, which they called extreme and unprecedented. "The injunction will inflict serious harm on Microsoft and Windows, Microsoft's flagship product, that is distributed to many millions of customers throughout the world," Microsoft told the appeals court.

Microsoft is hoping to overturn an order issued Tuesday by U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz in Baltimore that requires Microsoft to begin putting Sun's Java into Windows within 120 days after the order is entered. Motz said in an opinion issued Dec. 23, 2002, that the Java must-carry order was needed to remedy Microsoft's past antitrust violations and level the playing field between Java and Microsoft's .Net Web services software. Motz said there was a "substantial" likelihood that after a full trial he would impose the order permanently, calling it "an elegantly simple remedy" aimed at preventing Microsoft's past wrongs from giving it an advantage in the market battle for Internet-based computing. The Java must-carry idea was rejected by another federal judge in the separate government antitrust case against Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft.

View: The full story
News source: c|net


Furthermore, an email from Universal was accidentally sent out to developers last week stating that all work on GBA titles should be suspended. The email was promptly recalled and branded an error, but could it be that this was in some way tied in with this alleged deal?

We contacted Vivendi for comment and a spokesperson told us: "We've heard all sorts of rumours over the past months - Activision, EA and many more. They'd all like to get their hands on Blizzard. I guess Microsoft are one of the few companies that has enough money."

A Microsoft spokesperson would only state: "This is a rumour and we do not comment on rumours."

If the rumours prove true, this will be a huge boost for Microsoft's soaring Xbox console, providing it with a broad spectrum of big-name games that would either appear as Xbox lead or as Xbox exclusives outright.

We'll keep you posted on all developments.

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(6 replies) #1 DJ^TuRKiYe on 23 Jan 2003 - 09:57
Go Microsoft! I hate Suns Java i hope microsoft wins!
#1.1 kal-ky on 23 Jan 2003 - 12:02
Dumbass. Or rather.. ignorant fool.
#1.2 mintll on 23 Jan 2003 - 13:16
Oh Microsofts's Java that nonstandard crap Yea
#1.3 Edge on 23 Jan 2003 - 13:41
I second DJ's comment. Sun Java is pathetic. Let Microsoft provide their own Java for their own operating system.
#1.4 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:38
[neoquote=#1.3 by Edge]I second DJ's comment. Sun Java is pathetic. Let Microsoft provide their own Java for their own operating system.[/neoquote] nono , that completely defeats the point of Java! It is OS independant so if the implementation is different for every OS there is NO POINT in it existing
#1.5 Edge on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:49
I see what you mean Rath, but look at it this way: If you have XP and Microsoft's Java works better than Sun's on your system, which one do you think you'll want to use? I'm not against Sun's Java...but at least they could try to make it work!
#1.6 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 20:17
Suns Java does work! I have the latest version installed on my system and I can say I've never had a problem with it, the entire point of Java like i have said it to be platform specific , if you want something optimised to run on your platform get a NATIVE application
(8 replies) #2 Beast_4thHM on 23 Jan 2003 - 10:05
I hate Suns Java Too , its not working on many sites , Java apps look bad anyway its very slow to load , Microsoft should show them what the people think of Suns Java
#2.1 kal-ky on 23 Jan 2003 - 12:06
Suns Java isn't slower. MS Java is an 'optimized' java for IE, making it incompatible with Suns Java and therefor breaking the "write once, run anywhere" phylosophy. MS Java is also based on an older Sun java version.
#2.2 Beast_4thHM on 23 Jan 2003 - 13:16
Isn't slower??? shut up... 1. Anti-leech service don't work with Sun Java 2. 50% of Java Chats dont wokr with Sun Java 3. Java is getting old... MS already developing better tools and langueges , I suggest to Sun to do the same
#2.3 ramesees on 23 Jan 2003 - 13:26
[neoquote=#2.2 by Beast_4thHM]3. Java is getting old... MS already developing better tools and langueges , I suggest to Sun to do the same[/neoquote] Why should Sun bother when they seem to be comfortable with the "Litigate not Innovate" strategy they have going on now?
#2.4 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:35
[neoquote=#2.2 by Beast_4thHM]Isn't slower??? shut up... 1. Anti-leech service don't work with Sun Java 2. 50% of Java Chats dont wokr with Sun Java 3. Java is getting old... MS already developing better tools and langueges , I suggest to Sun to do the same[/neoquote] Dont be a complete tool, Stuff that doesnt work with Suns Java is BROKEN (i.e the software is broken NOT the Java release), Microsoft Java is NOT Java because it is not cross platform and hasnt been updated or improved for quite some time whereas Sun Java just gets better with each release
#2.5 JaggedFlame on 23 Jan 2003 - 19:24
YOU don't be a fool... which would you rather do, sacrifice usability for a "pure" version of Java, or use the "bad" one which works fine with all applets on the web out there? Who cares which is broken? Move on to frickin web services already!
#2.6 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 20:22
anything that doesnt work with the latest proper Java VM is a broken piece of code, are you sure you were actually testing this software on the latest version? Something designed for Java 1.4 will NOT work with MS implementation of JAVA , this is a BAD thing and defeats the object of Java We need 1 good implementation for all OSes that work fine , this is what Sun has provided , end of story
#2.7 gameguy34 on 30 Jan 2003 - 05:38
[neoquote=#2.1 by kal-ky]MS Java is an 'optimized' java for IE, making it incompatible with Suns Java and therefor breaking the "write once, run anywhere" phylosophy.[/neoquote] no, i think microsoft made their own java vm to fix the "write once, [i]break[/i] everywhere" philosophy.
#2.8 gameguy34 on 30 Jan 2003 - 05:41
[neoquote=#2.3 by ramesees]Why should Sun bother when they seem to be comfortable with the "Litigate not Innovate" strategy they have going on now?[/neoquote] the "litigate, not innovate" thing won't last long. at least sun won't last long, not while everyone else is innovating, and sun is the only one staying behind with outdated technology. think about it, its a stupid idea.
(2 replies) #3 aleks on 23 Jan 2003 - 11:09
Oh yes let Microsoft go un-punished again! This is why Im happy China doesnt pay for Windows and I never have or never will
#3.1 DJ^TuRKiYe on 23 Jan 2003 - 11:32
unpunished for what? first sun doesn't allow microsoft too ship java with xp now they want to put there peice of shit software back into windows. If they want There Java on windows the can go a format all there development machines with that bloatware on it, and start freash with a fast loading java like Microsofts Java VM Edit: /me looks at post #: I'm Elite w00t
#3.2 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 17:47
[neoquote=#3.1 by DJ^TuRKiYe]unpunished for what? first sun doesn't allow microsoft too ship java with xp now they want to put there peice of shit software back into windows. If they want There Java on windows the can go a format all there development machines with that bloatware on it, and start freash with a fast loading java like Microsofts Java VM Edit: /me looks at post #: I'm Elite w00t[/neoquote] Sun wanted it removed from Windows because it WASNT proper java and Microsoft went claiming that it was, it microsoft had released a nice compliant version of Java with their OS then there would not have been a problem
#4 cork1958 on 23 Jan 2003 - 11:27
Not that I'm anti MS or anything, but this is DEFINITELY one time I hope MS wins. Sun java sucks the big one.
#5 ramesees on 23 Jan 2003 - 12:58
Give it 12 months and there will be a repeat of the court case in which Microsoft has to remove Java from Windows....any one want a piece of the action?
#6 havyn on 23 Jan 2003 - 15:51
MS optimized Sun's Java. I think Sun should have a say over whether or not they can release it instead of the original. I DON'T think MS should be forced to incorporate it, but I think that Sun should have a say over whether or not MS can make their own.
#7 Eric Ferleman on 23 Jan 2003 - 15:53
Sweet! I've been expecting someting like this. I hope MS wins, there is no way in Hell I will ever want Sun's crappy software on my PC.
(4 replies) #8 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:31
I really dont see how Incorporating Java could damage anything , The latest Java releases are leaps and bounds ahead of the crap you got incorporated into win98SE just everybody is too brainwashed and ignorant to see this
#8.1 Eric Ferleman on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:40
[neoquote=#8.0 by Rathamon]IThe latest Java releases are leaps and bounds ahead of the crap you got incorporated into win98SE just everybody is too brainwashed and ignorant to see this[/neoquote] Hmm, and what about after 98SE? We all surely aren't using 98 SE, though some are.
#8.2 Rathamon on 23 Jan 2003 - 16:43
after that is when they went fiddling with and removing Java completely
#8.3 Eric Ferleman on 24 Jan 2003 - 03:55
Yes, that was then, and now......a few years later, Sun is crying to the judges about MS. What a surprise. Sun is just full of rhetoric. Sun is a bunch of sore losers, they don't want to compete in the marketplace, they want to compete in court because in the marketplace, they get slaughtered.
#8.4 OddFox on 24 Jan 2003 - 19:03
Thank God the courts understand economics and laws relating to business a helluva lot better than you do, Eric. There was a contract which Microsoft violated and now they are being sued for it. Microsoft's VM defeated the purpose of Java which Microsoft realized as a threat to their plans for the web as well as their maintainance of the "King of the Hill" position in the desktop market. The founding fathers didn't want normal people making important choices because most of us normal people are damn fools.
#9 gameguy34 on 24 Jan 2003 - 05:43
by all means, i give my vote to put the ms java vm in windows, NOT sun's vm. call it a customized java, j++, j#, j.net, whatever u want, i dont care, its better on all accounts. sun should hire some ex-microsoft coders or something and start making some working software.
(2 replies) #10 Ziggy55 on 24 Jan 2003 - 06:29
Dude, are you guys like little blind, ignorant children? I mean comon. Java is the number one programming language in the world. It is the one thing that stands between microsoft and a total monopoly over desktop and internet applications. As a java developer myself, I have come to respect the sheer brilliance and sophistication of the language. I know all you guys know is glitz and glam and get your giggles from xp's big icons and clippy the paperclip, but you people need to wake up. As far as microsoft's version of the virtual machine, you people are truly ignorant to what it was. MS sees Java (and rightfully so) as the single largest threat to its market dominance by leveraging the DOS/Windows monopoly it holds. With java, you write a program, and you don't need windows to run it. It can run on cell phones to mainframes. Thats powerful. But, java sucks, you know. As far as comments about putting ms's vm on windows again is laughable. MS vm supports java 1.01 or something really old like that. Its terribly slow compared to JRE1.4.1. Do some actual research before you blast stuff, microsoftees.
#10.1 havyn on 24 Jan 2003 - 07:32
[neoquote=#10.0 by Ziggy55]Dude, are you guys like little blind, ignorant children? I mean comon. Java is the number one programming language in the world. It is the one thing that stands between microsoft and a total monopoly over desktop and internet applications. As a java developer myself, I have come to respect the sheer brilliance and sophistication of the language. I know all you guys know is glitz and glam and get your giggles from xp's big icons and clippy the paperclip, but you people need to wake up. As far as microsoft's version of the virtual machine, you people are truly ignorant to what it was. MS sees Java (and rightfully so) as the single largest threat to its market dominance by leveraging the DOS/Windows monopoly it holds. With java, you write a program, and you don't need windows to run it. It can run on cell phones to mainframes. Thats powerful. But, java sucks, you know. As far as comments about putting ms's vm on windows again is laughable. MS vm supports java 1.01 or something really old like that. Its terribly slow compared to JRE1.4.1. Do some actual research before you blast stuff, microsoftees.[/neoquote] amen brotha
#10.2 OddFox on 24 Jan 2003 - 19:06
I applaud you for taking the time to explain it all to everyone here who know nothing but love to complain. You'd think they're unable to open the Control Panel in order to change the default settings for the JRE. JRE 1.4.1 is plenty fast enough for me once I click the big fat button in the configuration panel to not load the Java console.
(1 reply) #11 dotf on 24 Jan 2003 - 19:12
I hope Microsoft LOSES the appeal, thereby requiring them to use Sun's JVM on M$ OSes. Sun has fought for this ruling, as they feel a total exclusion of Java from M$ would impact their ability to affect the desktop market. I would rather have a working 1.4.1 JRE that can be used to run the same executable code as *nix users than a crippled, outdated, Microsoft JVM that can only run applets designed by poor programmers who jumped on and consumed M$ proprietary extensions (which is what caused all the trouble in the first place). Another reason I hope they lose is this, the court ruling would set an interesting precident. By forcing M$ to put the Sun Java JVM on their desktops, it will give narrowminded PC users the ablility to see the plethora of GREAT software on the market written in Java. Let's consider the ramifications of Microsoft losing the appeal. Couldn't they (M$), by all rights, then counter-sue Sun microsystems, and get the courts to require Sun to put the M$ .NET CLI on Solaris systems, claiming that Sun has held an unfair advantage in the server market for too long??????? Microsoft have already provided a basic CLI implementation for other flavors of *nix.
#11.1 OddFox on 24 Jan 2003 - 19:52
Java isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. It can be fast and extremely useful if the coding isn't horrible.
#12 jonny5 on 24 Jan 2003 - 21:52
i dont think Gameguy is necisarily saying that MS is the best company, and in no way is bashing Sun. I think what he is saying is that Suns VM is much slower than that of MS. Ive been playing around with the two and think Sun should improve the damn thing. However, i feel that Microsoft could use an update, if they really think they should have their VM in windows.
#13 gameguy34 on 29 Jan 2003 - 03:44
jonny got it pretty close. im not a microsoft fanatic, but i do think a lot of their software is pretty good. windows can use some improvements, but the mass of software available on the win32 platform only are enough to keep me using windows. i have also been following the windows 2003 server for a while, and i must say, it looks very promising. im also not saying that sun is a bad company, they have some good ideas from time to time, like everyone else, but i think its in the way they carry out those ideas that makes their software inferior.
#14 gameguy34 on 29 Jan 2003 - 03:55
as for sun putting microsoft's .net clr on their platform, i really don't see that happening, especially with this whole thing going on right now. .net is pretty cool if u ask me, and its definately complex as hell, but i like the idea of running almost any language on any supported platform. if sun would integrate .net with their servers, i think programmers who write code for sun platforms would find their job much easier by using any language they want. i also like the idea of xml web services. having apps work together with any other app, written in any other language, presents an enourmous benefit to software programmers now. talk about open source, i make a piece of software, i share one from this guy, u share some of mine, they share some of yours. open source coders should embrace this i think.

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